Buy crypto using Ledger Live

[HCP]

Ledger Live is an interface for a hardware wallet. Honestly, they shouldn't integrate such services.

What's Next? Gambling directly from your hardware wallet?

Now we're talking... I'd definitely back this initiative!

Seems like Ledger are simply trying to spin up new income streams...   No doubt the hardware wallet market is relatively saturated, and given they're a "one off" cost type of device, there is no on-going income once everyone that is going to buy one has bought one.

Shame they're being so greedy with such high margins tho... you'd think we the massive user base, if they had opted for tighter margins they could have actually been providing a very useful and financially attractive service... but no, they went for the money grab

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[The Sceptical Chymist]

Arrrgh!  I knew I would be correct when I posted in this thread previously:

I haven't tried buying bitcoin through my Ledger, but I could almost guarantee that I'd be ineligible to do so because of where I live anyway.  I'd be interested to hear from people who've done it, though.

I finally decided to give it a shot, even though I wasn't really looking to buy any bitcoin--sort of like how I just had to try using that bitcoin ATM that I posted about.  And wouldn't you know, Coinify asked which state I live in (there was a pull-down menu of states) and then notified me that I'm ineligible to use their service. 

I don't know why this is, but I'm assuming it's the same reason why I can't use Binance anymore.  Wish I could figure out what prevents residents of my state from accessing these services.  I used to be able to buy bitcoin from Circle with no problem, and now it seems there's no way I can do it using exchanges.

Anyway, just wanted to share that experience.  Haven't heard much feedback about people using Coinify to buy crypto via Ledger Live.

[Lucius]

And wouldn't you know, Coinify asked which state I live in (there was a pull-down menu of states) and then notified me that I'm ineligible to use their service.

 
I checked on their website and as far as I can see about 40+ USA states have the option to buy, while selling are only allowed in the EU zone. It seems that for some reason your state does not issue a license for crypto exchanges, or that it sets requirements that such companies cannot meet.

I don't know why this is, but I'm assuming it's the same reason why I can't use Binance anymore.  Wish I could figure out what prevents residents of my state from accessing these services.  I used to be able to buy bitcoin from Circle with no problem, and now it seems there's no way I can do it using exchanges.

For the exact reason, you should contact one of the competent authorities in your country, because I think it will be difficult to get such information directly from Binance or Coinify. For a start, you can read some information about the regulation of cryptocurrencies at this link -> Cryptocurrency Regulation USA.

[crwth]

I don't know why this is, but I'm assuming it's the same reason why I can't use Binance anymore.  Wish I could figure out what prevents residents of my state from accessing these services.  I used to be able to buy bitcoin from Circle with no problem, and now it seems there's no way I can do it using exchanges.

Isn't Binance US going to be the one you would use for trading? I think you would be eligible to trade there.

Anyways, I tried buying through Ledger Live, and you need to have your device already, and it went okay, for sure, since I live in one of the "available countries" list on their website. It's also the same link that Lucius included in his post. Personally, it's best to earn crypto and not just buy/convert fiat to BTC IMO because of the legitimacy issues and possible KYC involved.
 

[o_e_l_e_o]

Isn't Binance US going to be the one you would use for trading? I think you would be eligible to trade there.

Even Binance US has a list of 12 "Restricted States" that they do not accept customers from. You can see the list in their Terms of Use here:

“Restricted States” mean Alabama (AL), Connecticut (CT), Florida (FL), Georgia (GA), Hawaii (HI), Idaho (ID), Louisiana (LA), New York (NY), North Carolina (NC), Texas (TX), Vermont (VT) and Washington (WA). The list of Restricted States is subject to change at any time. In the event a state becomes a Restricted State, BAM will provide Users residing in that state with notice via email, a notification on BAM's site, or other means deemed necessary regarding their access to the Services.

Given that it includes Texas, Florida, and New York, which are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most populous states, if you add all those state populations up then it comes to over 115 million people. That's over a third of the US who are forbidden from using Binance US.

[crwth]

Even Binance US has a list of 12 "Restricted States" that they do not accept customers from. You can see the list in their Terms of Use here:

“Restricted States” mean Alabama (AL), Connecticut (CT), Florida (FL), Georgia (GA), Hawaii (HI), Idaho (ID), Louisiana (LA), New York (NY), North Carolina (NC), Texas (TX), Vermont (VT) and Washington (WA). The list of Restricted States is subject to change at any time. In the event a state becomes a Restricted State, BAM will provide Users residing in that state with notice via email, a notification on BAM's site, or other means deemed necessary regarding their access to the Services.

Given that it includes Texas, Florida, and New York, which are the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most populous states, if you add all those state populations up then it comes to over 115 million people. That's over a third of the US who are forbidden from using Binance US.

Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of that, I just thought that since it's called Binance US, it's already open for people in the US. I should've thought of it being the same with the states allowed in Coinify. For sure it's all about the regulation on those states.

Saw this article from Sept. 2019 about the 13 states that weren't included.

Although it is upsetting that we cannot offer Binance.US in the states where I grew up and earned my education at this time, please rest assured that this is just the beginning, and it is our mission to bring access to those of you in these states many of us call home

It's a quote from the CEO of Binance US that they still plan for those states to have access. Maybe soon.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I should've thought of it being the same with the states allowed in Coinify.

Here's the list of permitted states for Coinify:

United States (Alabama, Alaska, American Samoa, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Colorado, Delaware, District of Columbia, Guam, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Dakota, Northern Mariana Islands, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Puerto Rico, Rhode Island, South, Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, U.S. Virgin Islands, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming)

There are 12 states which aren't on that list, which are Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Louisiana, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington.

Of the list of 12 Binance restricted states and 12 Coinify restricted states, there is a crossover of 9 states. Alabama, Idaho, and Texas are only banned from Binance, and Nebraska, New Mexico, and Oregon are only banned from Coinify.

I don't use either of these services and I am also not exactly familiar with crypto laws in each of those 12 states, so I'm not entirely sure why some are permitted and some are not. Interestingly, if you look at other big exchanges such as Coinbase, they trade in all of the above states (with the exception of Hawaii), and have an entirely different set of "restricted states". Gemini operate in all states except Hawaii.

I wonder why there is such a large variance between companies which essentially provide the same service.

[HCP]

I wonder why there is such a large variance between companies which essentially provide the same service.

Most likely demand... or preceived demand... if you have 1 user from a state wanting to use your service, you're not going to jump through all the regulatory hoops to make that happen... if you have 100,000 users from a state wanting to use your service, then you probably would

And then, to a lesser extent, possibly also where the company is actually headquartered or incorporated and the various regulatory/legal ramifications of that.

If your state is on the "restricted" list of a given exchange, I'd suggest contacting that exchange and asking them why they don't offer services. If it is because of the lack of demand, perhaps you could publicise this in crypto forums and try and get a show of support from other users in your state to show the exchange that the demand is actually there. Who knows, you might do all the other users in your state a big favour and get added to the permitted states

Of course, if your particular state is run by luddites and/or troglodytes, then you're probably S.O.L. There is an election coming up... maybe start asking candidates what their thoughts on cryptocurrency are before you vote

[o_e_l_e_o]

Most likely demand... or preceived demand... if you have 1 user from a state wanting to use your service, you're not going to jump through all the regulatory hoops to make that happen... if you have 100,000 users from a state wanting to use your service, then you probably would

That's a good point, actually. I suppose if you take a simplified example of two exchanges such as Coinbase and Binance, then Binance would see the biggest returns for their money by focusing on getting themselves approved in states which are not currently served by Coinbase, since there is a larger potential market of "unexchanged" customers in those states, as opposed to getting approved in states which are already served by Coinbase and therefore having to fight for their already established customers.

I'd suggest contacting that exchange and asking them why they don't offer services.

A fair point, but I won't be contacting anyone since I don't use any centralized exchanges at all.

Of course, if your particular state is run by luddites and/or troglodytes, then you're probably S.O.L.

Aren't they all?


To get somewhat back on topic - let's say for some reason I decided I did want to pay these ridiculous fees and buy crypto via Ledger Live via Coinify while living in a state they do not support. Can I lie and choose an "approved" state for small trades, or do they push KYC on everyone regardless of amount?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

For the exact reason, you should contact one of the competent authorities in your country, because I think it will be difficult to get such information directly from Binance or Coinify. For a start, you can read some information about the regulation of cryptocurrencies at this link -> Cryptocurrency Regulation USA.

Thank you for that link, Lucius.  I'm going to bookmark that site for future perusal.  And yes, you're right, I probably could get the exact information I need by contacting one of those "competent authorities" you mentioned, but given that my state's government is an enormous bureaucracy I don't think I'm going to go that route.

Isn't Binance US going to be the one you would use for trading? I think you would be eligible to trade there.

Even Binance US has a list of 12 "Restricted States" that they do not accept customers from.

Yep, and I'm unfortunately in one of those states, though mine is not one of the biggies.

It's a quote from the CEO of Binance US that they still plan for those states to have access. Maybe soon.

Given the numbers Leo just showed, I could imagine how badly Binance wants to expand their services into those 12 states.  I do hope they keep trying and that they don't keep running into a brick wall when dealing with the regulatory bodies. 

I wonder why there is such a large variance between companies which essentially provide the same service.

Pardon my French, but it is fucking baffling, isn't it?

[crwth]

To get somewhat back on topic - let's say for some reason I decided I did want to pay these ridiculous fees and buy crypto via Ledger Live via Coinify while living in a state they do not support. Can I lie and choose an "approved" state for small trades, or do they push KYC on everyone regardless of amount?

This article shows you the step-by-step of buying cryptocurrency with Ledger, and it pushes KYC on everyone. And it states there.

So whilst you do also have to go through KYC procedures when buying with Ledger Live for the first time which is a bit trouble, the whole process only took around 5 minutes to complete

So whether or not you would lie, you wouldn't be able to pass the verification if your ID is not coinciding with the address that you input.

It's a quote from the CEO of Binance US that they still plan for those states to have access. Maybe soon.

Given the numbers Leo just showed, I could imagine how badly Binance wants to expand their services into those 12 states.  I do hope they keep trying and that they don't keep running into a brick wall when dealing with the regulatory bodies. 

That's why I'm curious why some other crypto companies have been able to operate within those states, and some have not. It's just bizarre. I do hope that you would be able to access Binance soon.