Netherlands pilot scheme to allow women to play in senior men's team

[Ucy]

This is not a good idea to realize, as we all know the difference in the vital parts between men and women can be the reason men
and women cannot play on one field. Imagine if a man clashed physically when fighting over the ball with a woman and accidentally
touched a part vital woman's body there will definitely be awkward moments. And this interferes with the course of the match, to my
knowledge women's bodies are weaker. So if women get tackled, they can get badly injured. It should be like now, women's and men's
football should be separated, except just for practice it doesn't matter.

 dont know if you have seen girls that body build or on the olympics . they are muscular and have high endurance compare to most of us mens  . if that that type of women are going to enter on the game then we shouldnt be worry about here . this also a game and no malice involved here but if the guy will touch the private parts of the girl i think that would be obvious and anyone will notice that  . thats an easy win for the opposing team but it also bring embarassment and damages to the team that do it

Ofcourse.
I was just thinking while reading the comment that someone could easily get such female body builders and place them side by side with thin men to prove him/her wrong.
Well, I guess he is referring to all females (combined) being generally weaker compared to all men in existence.    However, Weaker ≠ Inferior... Men & woman (in marriage life) are one body serving different functions/purposes. The eye is weaker than the bone and certain muscles... the tongue "weaker" than the brain, but all work together for the good of the body.

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[Taskford]

This is a great initiative.
We are searching for equality in this world so we need to be equal in sports as well.
Obviously women and men are different physically but mixed teams are a good point in bringing sports to equal levels between men and women.

Oh, with this kind of sport equalities shouldn't be applied. You already mentioned that physically
they ain't equal it will only damaged those womens physically, the strength of men is far greater

than women, even they've going to have same trainings and physical activities, the development
of mens body is far greater than women.

Its not really that we are underestimating womens but thats what the reality shows out.When it comes to physical body and even in emotion part where
men would be always tough and if you do try to mix em up on a sport then i cant imagine on how a women would able to handle a robust situation
where her body cant able to cope up and as you mentioned where development of body between genders is totally different.So in the question about
allowing women to play in seniors mens team then i cant say that this would be effective nor helpful at all.

Although there's something different in physical built between men and women but we cannot take out that there are sometimes women dominate on certain aspects. Remember that those women who are in professional leagues are been train well on their sports,craft or whatever they like.

But let see if this will contribute to this since I think somehow women can be helpful and I got your point but we cannot deny the fact that we see some girls doing a great in physical sports or contest.

[mezzaluna]

I guess if Netherlands could play that scheme, then other countries should follow since it would be another type of game where man and woman will prove camaraderie is always a good thing in sports. I'm just saying that its also better to have some women around since most men are always under heavy stress BUT women must always be provided with equal respect when they are playing sports on which they also both respect. Its also a good opportunity to present to the rest of the world that sports is for everybody.

[rhomelmabini]

I guess if Netherlands could play that scheme, then other countries should follow since it would be another type of game where man and woman will prove camaraderie is always a good thing in sports. I'm just saying that its also better to have some women around since most men are always under heavy stress BUT women must always be provided with equal respect when they are playing sports on which they also both respect. Its also a good opportunity to present to the rest of the world that sports is for everybody.

Unless this is just type of experiment from them and test if there's progress between the play they could setup while having a woman/women on a patriarchal team, just a thing popped in my head. Yeah, it's good to see camaraderies on a team having woman/women around but it can be achieved too even it's pure men's play. I'm just still neutral on the scheme unless it really provides good result.

[Renampun]

...

women and men cannot be mixed in a soccer match...
since a long time ago I'm sure there have been thought to do this namely mixing men and women in the game of soccer but could not find a solution. the obstacle lies in the ability of women to balance the stamina of men and also the menstrual cycle factors in women which will definitely affect the game.

Never going to happen imo, they’re smaller, weaker, slower, just not going to happen imo.

weak, small, and slow? without women men helpless... (｀ω´)

[eaLiTy]

I do not think these are serious schemes about  a genetically born women playing along men, there are many transitions going on where genetically born men are changing their genetics and converting to women and may be these talks are coming up regarding that aspect as these genetically converted women cannot be included in a genetically born women's team as it will not be a fair game as recently a genetically converted woman broke a cycling record which is absurd and in these changing times we need to look at everything and i hope this is regarding that.

[bitbunnny]

I wonder how they come out with that decision, if they keep allowing woman to play football then soon there will be new rules to accommodate woman in this sports, football is a rugged sports and some men might take a chance on those woman or other will impose their physical superiority, not all men will support this move.

Maybe not all men will support that and in a way you have the point. On.the other hand I think they should give it a tryw, to see if this is possible and we need to fight prejudice. Although if it will work in Netherlands that doesn't mean it will in other countries, not all countries are so open minded as Netherlands.

[jrrsparkles]

I wonder how they come out with that decision, if they keep allowing woman to play football then soon there will be new rules to accommodate woman in this sports, football is a rugged sports and some men might take a chance on those woman or other will impose their physical superiority, not all men will support this move.

Maybe not all men will support that and in a way you have the point. On.the other hand I think they should give it a tryw, to see if this is possible and we need to fight prejudice. Although if it will work in Netherlands that doesn't mean it will in other countries, not all countries are so open minded as Netherlands.

There is nothing wrong with the trying and it could be a real fun match if both of them were playing together but on intense matches it could change the things completely.Women are strong but general men are more muscular and if both of them hits each other then women will get serious injury for sure and we know how many players were died and injured on the ground so this may increase a lot if this rules followed on more matches.

[Insanerman]

If any of you would like to bet, what do you think are the chances of a woman playing in the first men's team of Ajax or PSV in the next 10 years?

Same as the most have voted, there's no way that women must be played mixed with a men's team. It is a better idea if they separated another team and play only in women's division tournaments. Though some might find it discriminating when we would disallow them nor wouldn't let women be part of such games in their own wants, it is simply just a matter of what the game was made for. It's a team-play in which even men were being aggressive and had fouls on each other. Hence, mixing women in it isn't a good idea. Though some might also say that they can be as men as they wanted to be, frankly saying such football games wouldn't be as easy as what they think it would be.

Maybe not all men will support that and in a way you have the point. On.the other hand I think they should give it a tryw, to see if this is possible and we need to fight prejudice. Although if it will work in Netherlands that doesn't mean it will in other countries, not all countries are so open minded as Netherlands.

Many countries are so open minded as Netherlands, it is just a fact that most countries prefer fairness in the game. If a men play, it is in a men's division, and so applied onto women. And mixing such might also make the betting hard and problematic. Have you seen basketball with mixed men and women in a tournament?

[Daniel91]

We can approach this story on 2 different levels.
On a general level, we will all agree that women generally, for physical and other reasons, cannot play at the same level as men.
But we have all neglected the personal level here.
What about Elle Fokkem?
It's official news: ''The KNVB has given permission for one woman - 19-year-old Elle Fokkema - to join fourth-tier VV Foarut for the 2020-21 season.''
but what is behind that brief official news?
Why exactly this girl is allowed to play together with men in senior competition, and many other women are not allowed to play with men?
In one print newspaper so I can’t quote here it was reported that this girl played football much better than many boys and that this is exactly why she was allowed to continue playing with men in the senior competition.
So the real question here is probably not whether all women can play football together with men.
The real question is probably what if some female Messi, a woman who plays football better than most men, shows up, should she be forced to play only with women as a senior or be allowed to play with men if she is better than them?
To be able to fully answer this question, it would be good to get some concrete statistics about Elle Fokkem and her previous games in men's competition.
Is anyone affiliated with this club and can help with statistics?
Without it, we can only guess whether it is really true that she plays football better than most men or not.
After all, shouldn’t the best possible players play in any team, regardless of gender?
Clearly, this will never apply to female competition where it is obvious that men would be dominant but as for male competition, if there is one woman among a million women who can play better than most men, will we allow her to play in a men’s club and improve club’s results or not?
So, here we are talking about exceptions in special cases and not a general rule.

[Ucy]

We can approach this story on 2 different levels.
On a general level, we will all agree that women generally, for physical and other reasons, cannot play at the same level as men.
But we have all neglected the personal level here.
What about Elle Fokkem?
It's official news: ''The KNVB has given permission for one woman - 19-year-old Elle Fokkema - to join fourth-tier VV Foarut for the 2020-21 season.''
but what is behind that brief official news?
Why exactly this girl is allowed to play together with men in senior competition, and many other women are not allowed to play with men?
In one print newspaper so I can’t quote here it was reported that this girl played football much better than many boys and that this is exactly why she was allowed to continue playing with men in the senior competition.
So the real question here is probably not whether all women can play football together with men.
The real question is probably what if some female Messi, a woman who plays football better than most men, shows up, should she be forced to play only with women as a senior or be allowed to play with men if she is better than them?
To be able to fully answer this question, it would be good to get some concrete statistics about Elle Fokkem and her previous games in men's competition.
Is anyone affiliated with this club and can help with statistics?
Without it, we can only guess whether it is really true that she plays football better than most men or not.
After all, shouldn’t the best possible players play in any team, regardless of gender?
Clearly, this will never apply to female competition where it is obvious that men would be dominant but as for male competition, if there is one woman among a million women who can play better than most men, will we allow her to play in a men’s club and improve club’s results or not?
So, here we are talking about exceptions in special cases and not a general rule.

I may allow her to play with the men if all the players can be protected from potential abuses/behaviors that could arise due to their clear gender differences.
If she were my daughter (19-year-old Elle Fokkema) and you insist on taking her due to her exceptional skills, I would get you to guarantee that nothing bad or immoral will happen to her in the team. I'd have to see what she will play with for her protection, where she will sleep, bath, etc. I'd prefer a seperate place for her to bath and sleep. We have to protect both the males and the female from doing what ought not to be done. They are in the team for just competition/games. I don't want anything bad outside of that.

[Daniel91]

We can approach this story on 2 different levels.
On a general level, we will all agree that women generally, for physical and other reasons, cannot play at the same level as men.
But we have all neglected the personal level here.
What about Elle Fokkem?
It's official news: ''The KNVB has given permission for one woman - 19-year-old Elle Fokkema - to join fourth-tier VV Foarut for the 2020-21 season.''
but what is behind that brief official news?
Why exactly this girl is allowed to play together with men in senior competition, and many other women are not allowed to play with men?
In one print newspaper so I can’t quote here it was reported that this girl played football much better than many boys and that this is exactly why she was allowed to continue playing with men in the senior competition.
So the real question here is probably not whether all women can play football together with men.
The real question is probably what if some female Messi, a woman who plays football better than most men, shows up, should she be forced to play only with women as a senior or be allowed to play with men if she is better than them?
To be able to fully answer this question, it would be good to get some concrete statistics about Elle Fokkem and her previous games in men's competition.
Is anyone affiliated with this club and can help with statistics?
Without it, we can only guess whether it is really true that she plays football better than most men or not.
After all, shouldn’t the best possible players play in any team, regardless of gender?
Clearly, this will never apply to female competition where it is obvious that men would be dominant but as for male competition, if there is one woman among a million women who can play better than most men, will we allow her to play in a men’s club and improve club’s results or not?
So, here we are talking about exceptions in special cases and not a general rule.

I may allow her to play with the men if all the players can be protected from potential abuses/behaviors that could arise due to their clear gender differences.
If she were my daughter (19-year-old Elle Fokkema) and you insist on taking her due to her exceptional skills, I would get you to guarantee that nothing bad or immoral will happen to her in the team. I'd have to see what she will play with for her protection, where she will sleep, bath, etc. I'd prefer a seperate place for her to bath and sleep. We have to protect both the males and the female from doing what ought not to be done. They are in the team for just competition/games. I don't want anything bad outside of that.

She has been playing with the  boys for 14 years  so I think that all these problems were  solved a long time ago.
If this girl had experienced any problems while playing with man  she would certainly not be playing with them anymore.

[DarkDays]

Look, with all due respect to Elle Fokkema I just don't think its fair to the women who would be playing with the men. I mean sexual dysmorphia is a thing in human beings. Sure, she might have trained harder, might even be better than some men and might as well be at a messi or ronaldo level. But she would be competing with men that would on avg be twice her size.

Well not Elle Fokkema herself but the future women that might play in the senior category. I can think of a thousand groping incident scandals that could result out of this. Intentional or otherwise. As an experiment, maybe it'd be nice to see this play out but long term I don't think so.

That said, there are some pretty athletic senior men, not sure if women could keep up.

[yazher]

This is not a good idea to realize, as we all know the difference in the vital parts between men and women can be the reason men
and women cannot play on one field. Imagine if a man clashed physically when fighting over the ball with a woman and accidentally
touched a part vital woman's body there will definitely be awkward moments. And this interferes with the course of the match, to my
knowledge women's bodies are weaker. So if women get tackled, they can get badly injured. It should be like now, women's and men's
football should be separated, except just for practice it doesn't matter.

I agree there's No way they can compete with each other because of their different roles in the society, this is not all about comparison to each genders but women have specifically have some things they can do specifically like watching the kids and so on so forth. You know what? I don't have patience for watching my kids for 5 minutes but my wife can do all that and my wife have things she can't do which is I the only one who knows. Let's keep it as simple as man vs man and women vs women in the sports games. let's not make innovations like we have seen in the cinema, they're just making it worse.

[livingfree]

I'm stuck between no and little chance.

We're seeing the mixture of male and female in some contests although it's not that near to this. But as much as I want, they should retain it for all boys and all girls.

This will only create inequality, they can have their own and stay to their category.

If this is allowed many sporting events will follow can you imagine basketball which combined men and women they should do a lot of consultation especially to physical therapists because they don't have the same anatomy not to mention and besides the competitiveness of any team will be reduced because of course, we have a very different of the woman when it comes to physical.

I don't think that they will be that too open with that idea.

There's already an equality for separated sporting events for boys and girls. It's not discriminating if they won't be allowing a mixture of gender because it's a clear idea that it just can't happen.

They have WNBA and NBA so that should say the least.

[Mauser]

I agree there's No way they can compete with each other because of their different roles in the society, this is not all about comparison to each genders but women have specifically have some things they can do specifically like watching the kids and so on so forth. You know what? I don't have patience for watching my kids for 5 minutes but my wife can do all that and my wife have things she can't do which is I the only one who knows. Let's keep it as simple as man vs man and women vs women in the sports games. let's not make innovations like we have seen in the cinema, they're just making it worse.

Just by watching woman soccer games you can see that is a complete different game to when men are playing. Maybe this would work for trans people who changed from men to woman who can still play for men. But honestly what is the point? I don't find it sexist for genders to have different games and teams. We already during school that men and woman are different. There is no point in wishing that away. I agree that hollywood just makes it worse with just making the same movies again but putting a female as the main actor.

[Wenbing]

I see this as a woman equality right advocacy. It provides an equality ground for women and men to co play in a football match.

You see women could be very smart when given opportunity. Hence, I see the rising of women that'll be like Christiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

[Oilacris]

I see this as a woman equality right advocacy. It provides an equality ground for women and men to co play in a football match.

You see women could be very smart when given opportunity. Hence, I see the rising of women that'll be like Christiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

I dont see anything wrong with this one but isnt this would be a serious handicap for said team? If they do let to make out some substitution
then they are aware on the risk.

If they do allow women to play then so be it as long it doesnt violate any rules or regulations and doing the game fair and square.

Not to underestimate but we cant really remove on someones attention that women arent really that competitive compared to men but
doesnt mean that they aren capable of doing things.There is really just some differences when it comes to intensity.

[hahay]

Very unlikely, maybe there are some senior or premier teams that allow women to play together but the pilot doesn't feel like it will work because no other team has followed that way. Indeed, this is a form of gender equality but I don't think this kind of move would be right, what if there are parts that are accidentally touched, will it be a form of harassment in sports? There are already many women's leagues running, is that still not enough? So I think, not all things have to be done simultaneously, because there is still a chance for women to get a special women's league and that's enough for gender equality. Instead of women playing ball at the same time as men, why not the other way around like men playing with women in the women's league? lol

[Smartvirus]

If some talented girl shows up, can you imagine that she plays for the first team of Ajax or PSV, in the Champions League match against Real or Barcelona?
Personally, I'd like to watch it and I think it would be very interesting.
We're already used to female referees in men's football and even women who coach men's soccer teams.

Interesting or annoying... Well, you said personally but then, we all know how we tend to criticize even the best player when he makes the slightest mistake and how most good players seat on the bench or play from the bench after a few triers with a bad play. This is very much going to be the outcome of this pilot study. Amending the rules to suit women participation would be a wrong step should FIFA go beyond allowing women to play on same pitch as men.

Female referees and women on the same pitch, running after the same ball and trying to emerge victorious is a whole lot of another story. Football is a game of contact and these are going to be sports men and women, more familiar with the Gem and men are naturally muscular than women except in few cases that a few women tends to equal the men. In all, it's going to be an unfair game and I really hope they don't waste much energy in conducting this pilot study because, it won't work out. I've seen this on a local pitch, it didn't go so well. The female seemed bullied!