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Author Topic: [ANN] BitcoinSpinner  (Read 42292 times)
Mike Hearn
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January 05, 2012, 11:07:25 PM
 #101

I wouldn't worry too much about "seeing Apple everywhere". Every iPhone looks nearly the same and they all have very prominent branding so it's easy to spot them quickly.

And besides, I agree that data can provide insight. Bitcoin is a long term project. The state of the mobile market today is not relevant because Bitcoin itself is not relevant today. What should interest us is how things might look in two or three years, and how it breaks down amongst different demographics.

Apple long ago stopped announcing activation figures for the iPhone specifically (tablets aren't so relevant for mobile payments), it's likely they are a long way behind. The last announced Android figure was ~700k per day. I think Apple stopped announcing at 250k per day (for both tablets and phones).

But we can try and extrapolate from other sources. Clicky is a newish web tracking firm with half a million sites. StatCounter has about 3 million. The mix of sites is of course NOT a random sample of all websites mobile users visit, so we use two sources to try and discern general trends rather than absolute figures.

Firstly, we can see that a lot of this varies by region. For instance in South Korea Android utterly crushes iOS. I didn't include Clicky because their graph for Korea is wildly oscillating noise and I doubt it's reliable. StatCounters data matches recent news reports where lack of LTE is cited as a common concern.

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-KR-monthly-201012-201112

In Germany the iPhone is more popular but it's changing quickly and soon the positions will reverse:

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-DE-monthly-201012-201112
  http://getclicky.com/marketshare/de/operating-systems/mobile/

Switzerland:

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-CH-monthly-201012-201112
  http://getclicky.com/marketshare/ch/operating-systems/mobile/

Clickys results are a bit dodgy looking again, but they both agree on the general trends, iOS is way ahead but Android is growing, market share changed permanently in August.

The iPhone launched first in the USA, it's made by a US company, and it's a fiercely fought market with huge marketing budgets. So it's not surprising that the situation there is not changing so fast:

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-US-monthly-201012-201112
  http://getclicky.com/marketshare/us/operating-systems/mobile/

Instead both Android and iOS are selling enough to keep pace with each other in a rapidly growing market, and Blackberry is dropping like a stone (as a fraction of overall web traffic).

The situation is more interesting in the developing world, which I think is somewhere Bitcoin could be of more impact than in the west - flaky inflation-prone currencies and lack of good credit card systems are common issues there.

Brazil:

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-BR-monthly-201012-201112
  http://getclicky.com/marketshare/br/operating-systems/mobile/

The stats are harder to read here, probably due to lack of sufficient data and different mix of sites with the tracking code installed. Clicky shows iOS keeping stable and Android growing steadily until a massive jump at the end. But the numbers are questionable - is iOS really more popular than "other"? I doubt it, more likely Clicky, being newer, is installed on sites that are more modern/web2.0/tailored for smartphone users. Also there's no volume counts, it's probably low. StatCounter shows a slightly more believable graph in which both iOS and Android are behind Symbian (cheap nokias), but this time Android is ahead. The derivative changes changes in September which is the sort of thing you'd associate with a new device launch.

Estonia (does it still count as 'developing' these days I wonder?)

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-EE-monthly-201012-201112
  http://getclicky.com/marketshare/ee/operating-systems/mobile/

Clicky shows the exact opposite of StatCounter here, but the graph is so noisy I suspect it's being drawn from hardly any data at all. Clicky isn't even translated into Estonian. StatCounter, with a large number of quite old sites, is more likely to have good coverage in smaller geographies, and they show Android clearly dominating.

Russia is an important market for Bitcoin:

  http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_os-RU-monthly-201012-201112
  http://getclicky.com/marketshare/ru/operating-systems/mobile/

Again, divergent data. Clicky shows Android growing and iOS leading. StatCounter shows Symbian way ahead and Android growing, iOS shrinking.

So the general conclusions are:

  • Source selection can change your results completely.
  • Interesting longer-term markets for Bitcoin are showing a consistent trend towards Android, which is good for us.
  • The situation today in mature markets like the UK and USA is Apples to lose, but unless they change the game again it seems likely they will do so - mostly their sales are keeping pace with market growth but Android sales are outpacing it, often at the expense of older devices.

I've lately been enjoying an Android 4 phone. The new GUI closes the gap with iOS in responsiveness/frame rate and slick looks, which was one of Apples key advantages. So I think these trends will become even more pronounced over the next couple of years. This is good for Bitcoin because Apples policies are very inconsistent and it's unclear if BitPak and friends will be allowed on the platform long term. Also, NFC makes for very nice mobile payments and Apple doesn't seem in a rush to support it.
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January 05, 2012, 11:41:57 PM
 #102

thanks mike, nice overview! also, for my country AT it shows quite the opposite. however, i think there is still room for surprises … android will really become dominant, once all non-smartphones have vanished and very cheap models with probably older 2.X versions (or then, 3.x) are what users get if they want a new 0 €/$ phone. That will also the type of model you will see in developing countries. And don't forget, mobile data is in some of those 3rd world countries cheaper than in the US!
gnar1ta$
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January 06, 2012, 01:45:53 AM
 #103

Quote
I wouldn't worry too much about "seeing Apple paying customers everywhere"

Fixed that for you.

EDIT: reference http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/12/ios-revenues-vs-android/

Losing hundreds of Bitcoins with the best scammers in the business - BFL, Avalon, KNC, HashFast.
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January 10, 2012, 06:36:24 PM
 #104

Hi, today I tried to use BitcoinSpinner. I have 0.9957 BTC on my wallet (confirmed), but I'm unable to spend any money from the wallet, because "Send Bitcoins" button is disabled even when I put 0.1 or 0.01 as "Amount to pay". Any idea?

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January 10, 2012, 06:40:23 PM
 #105

Hm, is there any reason to drop private keys after uninstallation? I tried to reinstall BitcoinSpinner and now I have nice clean wallet ;-).

As an example, bitcoin wallet using bitcoinj is keeping private keys untouched so I can uninstall and install application as I want. Well, I expected that BitcoinSpinner is doing the same. But I see "Use at your own risk", so this is just a recommendation, not a complain...

vuce
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January 10, 2012, 06:52:02 PM
 #106

Hi, today I tried to use BitcoinSpinner. I have 0.9957 BTC on my wallet (confirmed), but I'm unable to spend any money from the wallet, because "Send Bitcoins" button is disabled even when I put 0.1 or 0.01 as "Amount to pay". Any idea?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53353.msg680479#msg680479
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January 10, 2012, 06:54:31 PM
 #107

vuce, thanks for link. But looks like Monday release isn't there yet ;-).

Jan
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January 10, 2012, 06:57:42 PM
 #108

Hm, is there any reason to drop private keys after uninstallation? I tried to reinstall BitcoinSpinner and now I have nice clean wallet ;-).

As an example, bitcoin wallet using bitcoinj is keeping private keys untouched so I can uninstall and install application as I want. Well, I expected that BitcoinSpinner is doing the same. But I see "Use at your own risk", so this is just a recommendation, not a complain...

BitcoinSpinner uses private app storage, which is wiped at uninstall. However, this also has the nice feature that other apps cannot get to it, which is paramount. Another nice thing is that BitcoinSpinner only needs network access privileges. This lets you know that it does not try to snag your address book or keys from other apps using SD card storage.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
Jan
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January 10, 2012, 07:01:28 PM
 #109

vuce, thanks for link. But looks like Monday release isn't there yet ;-).
Yep, that will be next monday. Read the rest of the thread for the embarrassing reason Roll Eyes
To sum up, you cannot spend BTC if your balance is <= 1 BTC because of a UI bug that disables the Send button. I kneel in the dust, it is my fault sire.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
Jan
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January 10, 2012, 07:07:21 PM
 #110

Hm, is there any reason to drop private keys after uninstallation? I tried to reinstall BitcoinSpinner and now I have nice clean wallet ;-).

As an example, bitcoin wallet using bitcoinj is keeping private keys untouched so I can uninstall and install application as I want. Well, I expected that BitcoinSpinner is doing the same. But I see "Use at your own risk", so this is just a recommendation, not a complain...

BitcoinSpinner uses private app storage, which is wiped at uninstall. However, this also has the nice feature that other apps cannot get to it, which is paramount. Another nice thing is that BitcoinSpinner only needs network access privileges. This lets you know that it does not try to snag your address book or keys from other apps using SD card storage.

Oops I broke the rule of three posts in a row.
Whenever you install BitcoinSpinner you should make a QR-code backup (Click Options button -> Settings -> Backup Wallet). This is a one time operation, which lets you restore the wallet at any time on any device. In short, killer-feature. I'll add a visual reminder which is shown right after first launch in a coming release.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
cypherdoc
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January 10, 2012, 07:52:54 PM
 #111

Hm, is there any reason to drop private keys after uninstallation? I tried to reinstall BitcoinSpinner and now I have nice clean wallet ;-).

As an example, bitcoin wallet using bitcoinj is keeping private keys untouched so I can uninstall and install application as I want. Well, I expected that BitcoinSpinner is doing the same. But I see "Use at your own risk", so this is just a recommendation, not a complain...

BitcoinSpinner uses private app storage, which is wiped at uninstall. However, this also has the nice feature that other apps cannot get to it, which is paramount. Another nice thing is that BitcoinSpinner only needs network access privileges. This lets you know that it does not try to snag your address book or keys from other apps using SD card storage.

Oops I broke the rule of three posts in a row.
Whenever you install BitcoinSpinner you should make a QR-code backup (Click Options button -> Settings -> Backup Wallet). This is a one time operation, which lets you restore the wallet at any time on any device. In short, killer-feature. I'll add a visual reminder which is shown right after first launch in a coming release.

is this a backup of both pub/priv key or just priv key?
P4man
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January 10, 2012, 08:02:08 PM
 #112

Whenever you install BitcoinSpinner you should make a QR-code backup (Click Options button -> Settings -> Backup Wallet). This is a one time operation, which lets you restore the wallet at any time on any device. In short, killer-feature.

Its not very useful at the moment IMO. It shows a QR code, but that it. Which means I have to use another smartphone or something to make a picture of it. It would be better if I could save that code somewhere, bluetooth it, whatever. Perhaps even mail it I want it on my main pc, otherwise I cant print it.

Jan
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January 10, 2012, 09:54:00 PM
 #113

is this a backup of both pub/priv key or just priv key?
It is a backup of a random seed that allows BitcoinSpinner to deterministically generate keys.

Its not very useful at the moment IMO. It shows a QR code, but that it. Which means I have to use another smartphone or something to make a picture of it. It would be better if I could save that code somewhere, bluetooth it, whatever. Perhaps even mail it I want it on my main pc, otherwise I cant print it.

There is a 'Copy to Clipboard' button, which puts the textual representation of the seed on the clipboard. you can use this to regenerate the QR code using for instance http://qrcode.kaywa.com/

Personally I use a digital camera and take a picture, which i then print out. It's a bit cumbersome, but I haven't found a way to print directly from my phone.

Mycelium let's you hold your private keys private.
P4man
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January 10, 2012, 09:57:17 PM
 #114


There is a 'Copy to Clipboard' button,

Where? I dont seem to have any (android 2.3).

cypherdoc
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January 11, 2012, 01:38:47 AM
 #115


There is a 'Copy to Clipboard' button,

Where? I dont seem to have any (android 2.3).

right under the QR code itself
dunand
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January 11, 2012, 02:09:40 AM
 #116

I can confirm I have NO copy to clipboard under the qr code. I'm on 2.3.4. It must be a bug.

Last time I installed qtqr on my laptop to scan the phone with the laptop's webcam. Now go tell my girlfriend that bitcoin is simple to use. Smiley
cypherdoc
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January 11, 2012, 02:21:04 AM
 #117

I can confirm I have NO copy to clipboard under the qr code. I'm on 2.3.4. It must be a bug.

Last time I installed qtqr on my laptop to scan the phone with the laptop's webcam. Now go tell my girlfriend that bitcoin is simple to use. Smiley

let me be more specific; click on menu, then settings, then backup wallet, verify with Yes, QR code pops up with Copy to Clipboard directly underneath.
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January 11, 2012, 04:47:00 AM
 #118

this is what I see.


cypherdoc
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January 11, 2012, 05:23:51 AM
 #119

this is what I see.




did u run the recent upgrade?

i have Copy to Clipboard directly under that QR code.  strange.
P4man
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January 11, 2012, 09:20:54 AM
 #120

Could it be an issue with screen resolution? My phone has a relatively low resolution (320x480), maybe there is no room for the button?
Whatever the reason, I have the same as dunand. No copy button. App is up to date.

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