Discussion- Sending feedback from main and alt account

[Little Mouse]

Imagine you have two accounts and you frequently visit the forum from both accounts. For example, hilariousetc and hilariousandco. If he trade from both accounts, it's very important to know the scammer from both account which is why he may consider tag. single person from both account.
Reason- To be ensure that whom he is dealing with.

If he does not tag from both account, he may deal with a scammer unknowingly, just a fact.

On the other hand, when he tags a single account from both of his account, it shows two negative trust on the profile.
So, what's the solution?

There is two possible solution in my eyes.
1. Include your alt in your trust list (But it is forbidden here and no one should do that)
2. Blocking one account from DT system totally, although it doesn't make him obsolete to send feedback but feedback will not be visible.

What do you think? What is your opinion on this case?

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[suchmoon]

Moving my response from the other thread...

Or think it differently. Imagine I have two accounts which I log in frequently. If I send negative feedback on Account A from Little Mouse account, I will not see that tag from my alt account and vice versa. Again, including alt in trust list is forbidden. In that case, would not tagging from both account be perfect?

Then you should probably make sure one of those accounts is never in DT (e.g. by asking theymos to blacklist it) and even then it's quite questionable if some users include both accounts in their custom trust lists, and the trust ratings are still visible under "untrusted feedback" for everyone else.

Posting trust ratings - or supporting/opposing flags etc - for the same person from more than one account doesn't seem right. It directly affects the reputation of the target so basically creates an advantage for multi-accounters. I don't think that's the intent of the trust system.

[Little Mouse]

I got your point, I had shared the same idea too in the OP and found that you replied in the other thread. May be in one way, you me or other who have the same thought are correct. But since forum allows alt account and if anyone wants to trade frequently from two accounts (known alt imagine), what's the solution. I know people barely do this. Everyone trades from a single account (mostly tagged as main account). But still it's a question, how can I identify the same scammer from both of my account. You may know the username for a while but after a long time you may forget the scammer. If you log in from your alt from which you did not tag the account, what will happen? Is not feedback system here for better trading experience? If so, where's the wrong with tagging the same scammer from anyone alt account too?
I am talking in general, such cases barely happen though.

[examplens]

isn't this an identical discussion as on DT Trust abuse & trust feedback abuse opened by Timelord2067, also with the same roles hilariousetc and hilariousandco? whether everyone really should have their own topic, although the current discussion is somewhere else?

speaking of this case, I find it more interesting that both accounts are in DT selection, where one (DT1) account added own alt account to trust list and helps him to be in DT circle. I believe he did it for himself and so it is easier for him, but definitely opens up the possibility of manipulation. for now, we all know both accounts have the same owner so we look at feedbacks as one.

https://loyce.club/trust/2020-08-22_Sat_05.07h/397737.html


btw. it is certainly desirable to look at feedbacks reality first, then judge. we have witnessed a number of negative ratings caused only by vanity and that is nonsense.

[Little Mouse]

isn't this an identical discussion as on DT Trust abuse & trust feedback abuse opened by Timelord2067, also with the same roles hilariousetc and hilariousandco? whether everyone really should have their own topic, although the current discussion is somewhere else?

Not same if you look further. That thread was particularly pointing at someone while I am talking about the situation in general. Moreover, I am talking about possibility of tagging same account from two account of single person, it's useful too in some ways and there's no better solution on the above point I have made. So, yeah both are different.

[suchmoon]

If you log in from your alt from which you did not tag the account, what will happen? Is not feedback system here for better trading experience?

You still can (and should) review the trust ratings and flags of the person you're trading with, and not just rely on the numeric score, so you would see that you tagged/flagged that person from your other account. I don't think that's a problem at all. Perhaps slightly inconvenient for you, but trying to solve that inconvenience by incorrectly inflating other people's trust scores with multiple ratings from different accounts seems wrong to me. It's your decision to use alt accounts so it should be your responsibility to deal with it.

[LoyceV]

1. Include your alt in your trust list (But it is forbidden here and no one should do that)

I haven't seen such a rule. This is my interpretation:

Do's and Don'ts

• It's okay to include your alt-account on your own Trust list. This means you trust the feedback you left from that account. Example:
  

  hilariousandco Trusts these users' judgement:
  7. hilariousetc (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (1725 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

• Don't include your main account from your alt account(s). This could influence DT1-voting, and although that's not part of this guide, it's bad.

I didn't include my Mobile alt on my own Trust list, because I use it to leave non-DT positive feedback. I wouldn't mind having the negative feedback on DT, but I can't have it all. I do see my Mobile's feedback by default though, because HCP included it, who in turn is included by suchmoon, who is on my own Trust list. That puts suchmoon (DT1) on my Depth 0, HCP (DT2) on my Depth 1, and LoyceMobile (DT3) on my Depth 2.

I don't plan to leave duplicate feedback from both accounts, but if it ever happens by mistake when my lists gets too long, please let me know so I can remove one of them.

[hilariousandco]

Timelord left feedback from both his accounts on my alt account, both posting nonsense that shouldn't have been there. He then decided to tag my main one with some fabricated bs about me being homophobic. I returned the favour.

isn't this an identical discussion as on DT Trust abuse & trust feedback abuse opened by Timelord2067, also with the same roles hilariousetc and hilariousandco? whether everyone really should have their own topic, although the current discussion is somewhere else?

speaking of this case, I find it more interesting that both accounts are in DT selection, where one (DT1) account added own alt account to trust list and helps him to be in DT circle. I believe he did it for himself and so it is easier for him, but definitely opens up the possibility of manipulation. for now, we all know both accounts have the same owner so we look at feedbacks as one.

It's not like my accounts are secret. If you trust one account you trust the other. If you distrust one you can distrust the other. If you're trusting your secret alts then that maybe an issue, especially if you're using them for shenanigans.

[Timelord2067]

IIRC @darkstar_ removed the circular default trust in their alt to avoid a perception of bias after a conversation I was having with @LoyceV about tomatocage trusting his mobile alt who in turn trusted (I may be recalling who it was inaccurately and will correct this post if I am mistaken) @quickseller who in turn trusted tomatocage in a circular DT trust ring.

A number of DT are distrusting my mobile alt on the basis of preventing it from giving DT feedback (including at least one contributor in this thread, so I am watching to see if they now contradict themselves)

While I appreciate the sincerity of the OP in starting this thread, it dilutes the discussion in that thread.  I don't intend to participate in this thread further except to thank those who have already voted with their tildas.

[Little Mouse]

Timelord left feedback from both his accounts on my alt account, both posting nonsense that shouldn't have been there. He then decided to tag my main one with some fabricated bs about me being homophobic. I returned the favour.

Trust me, I did not intend to bring this matter actually. I was looking for general discussion on this topic since I have never seen such a discussion although it's matter of using brain.

[dkbit98]

I don't think doing this is good, but we can see people are doing it.
Some members even write positive feedback on their own alt accounts and that is so miserable and pathetic (not saying this was the case here)
Nobody should trust anyone doing that.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Reason- To be ensure that whom he is dealing with.

If he does not tag from both account, he may deal with a scammer unknowingly, just a fact.

What do you think? What is your opinion on this case?

How about this, you use your main account to monitor who you're trading with to prevent falling prey to scammers instead of implicating your alt that most likely will bring about some attention that'll probably end badly for you. Excluding monetizing accounts on the forum, alts are created for privacy reasons and one of the best ways to stay hidden is not to engage in other features of the forum like trust feedback and DT voting.

So my solution involves not doing any of the suggestion above, just use you main account for all the monitoring and maybe use your alts for deals/discussion you don't want to be associated with your main account.

[Pffrt]

Some members even write positive feedback on their own alt accounts and that is so miserable and pathetic (not saying this was the case here)

Can you point who sent positive feedback to themselves? I think it's a serious offend and anyone doing such things should be removed from DT (if they are in) and should be tagged for trust abuse. It would be better if you share the name here.

[Casdinyard]

Do's and Don'ts

• It's okay to include your alt-account on your own Trust list. This means you trust the feedback you left from that account. Example:
  

  hilariousandco Trusts these users' judgement:
  7. hilariousetc (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (1725 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

• Don't include your main account from your alt account(s). This could influence DT1-voting, and although that's not part of this guide, it's bad.

I didn't include my Mobile alt on my own Trust list, because I use it to leave non-DT positive feedback. I wouldn't mind having the negative feedback on DT, but I can't have it all. I do see my Mobile's feedback by default though, because HCP included it, who in turn is included by suchmoon, who is on my own Trust list. That puts suchmoon (DT1) on my Depth 0, HCP (DT2) on my Depth 1, and LoyceMobile (DT3) on my Depth 2.

But shouldn't it be enough to simply let your alt account be the DT member? Though adding alt accounts in DT wouldn't change the course of the trust afterall nor would affect the system, I still don't see why one account isn't enough for such actions. Because for me, trust system must only be used if and only if a user had scammed others nor had any issues with any transaction dealt with the user, and not by any subjective means as it would affect the reputation of the user right?. Hence, either using your main account or alt account to distrust someone shouldn't be an issue, therefore one must also be enough right?

Besides, (an example) who would've know if UserA from DT enlisted UserAa is his alt account or just a friend, and whom did really know if this alt with different name is really the alt of someone. All I'm saying is that there are so many open ended questions that applies with regards to the trust system in general. Hence, this issue will keep on going and soon some thread with the same idea as the OP would be created again and again (i guess)

[Timelord2067]

I'll be able to make a fuller post when I am home tomorrow.

Although we are using the hilarious*/ hilariousetc / hilariousandco trio of alts as our example in this thread, I'll give you the example of Bruno who, after many years had built up multiple alts (all well known) with distinct profile names then sold at least one of them and it changed hands an unknown number of times before falling into the ownership of suchmoon.

Now to put into context what I'm about to say , this is my mobile alts default trust as we speak: https://loyce.club/trust/2020-08-29_Sat_05.07h/2640757.html

Trust list for: Timelord2o67 (Trust: neutral) (18 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP) (created 2020-08-29_Sat_05.07h)
Back to index

Timelord2o67 Trusts these users' judgement:
-

Timelord2o67 Distrusts these users' judgement:
-


Timelord2o67's judgement is Trusted by:
1. Timelord2067 (Trust: +8 / =6 / -1) (470 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

~Timelord2o67's judgement is Distrusted by:
1. Foxpup (Trust: +3 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (11) 1010 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
2. ibminer (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (807 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
3. suchmoon (Trust: +13 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (33) 4469 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
4. nutildah (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (DT1! (11) 2576 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
5. NEW o_e_l_e_o (Trust: +10 / =0 / -0) (4686 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
6. dragonvsandroid (Trust: +0 / =0 / -1) (3 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)


Source: LoyceV's Trust list viewer.
Get your own Trust list in BBCode at loyce.club/trust.

Discounting the most recent addition who has done so in support of the hilarious*/ hilariousetc / hilariousandco trio of alts distasteful satire which has been addressed elsewhere, all of the rest who distrust my mobile alt have done so on the pretext of preventing my mobile alt's trust feedbacks (all twelve of them) or my DT trust/distrust (of which there is none) from showing up on default trust given my main alt trusts my mobile alt which I did after reading the example given by LoyceV and cited by others in this thread. (I would have been happy with more than just LoyceV placing a NEUTRAL trust feedback on my mobile alts page, but that's just me)

From a quick glance some of these users' DT support one or the other of the two main alts in our given example. That makes their actions hypocritical in that they Default Trust both main alts for one person while using the reasoning another user's alt should be distrusted. (Unless of course their DT trusts were placed that long ago they just haven't given any thought to the repocussions of DT trusting two alts.?)

Perhaps we flip a coin and settle which of the trio of alts should be automatically distrusted to make the UID unmarketable because if Bruno can sell a universally recognisable alt secretly, then it's a very real thing that the trio of alts in our example can also quietly sell one or the other of their lucrative alts.

[suchmoon]

Has it ever occurred to you that your alt is not trusted because you're not trusted as a person?

~ uses a dead person to score internet points ~

Stay classy.

[LoyceV]

But shouldn't it be enough to simply let your alt account be the DT member?

I don't want to add my Mobile to DT myself (but it has been DT2 in the past when someone else added it).

I still don't see why one account isn't enough for such actions.

I'm not always at my desk, and I don't want to use my main account on an insecure phone.

Because for me, trust system must only be used if and only if a user had scammed others nor had any issues with any transaction dealt with the user, and not by any subjective means as it would affect the reputation of the user right?. Hence, either using your main account or alt account to distrust someone shouldn't be an issue, therefore one must also be enough right?

If you check LoyceMobile's sent negative feedback, it's often just the word "Scammer" without Reference link (that's too much work on mobile). I tag them when I report their post, waiting for them to get Nuked. Even if they haven't scammed someone from that account yet, I don't want to wait for that. Most of them post crap like this, and it's obvious a scammer who uses New accounts for the same scam.

You haven't left any feedback, I'd say start using the feedback system. It becomes more decentralized when more people use it.

Besides, (an example) who would've know if UserA from DT enlisted UserAa is his alt account or just a friend, and whom did really know if this alt with different name is really the alt of someone.

You can't know for sure, but if self-inclusions get exposed, theymos can blacklist them.

the hilarious*/ hilariousetc / hilariousandco trio of alts
~
it's a very real thing that the trio of alts in our example can also quietly sell one or the other of their lucrative alts.

I don't expect this to happen before Bitcointalk implements KYC. There's no way anyone will get away with taking over a well-known account without being noticed. Being Most Recognized makes it much harder to impersonate someone.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Discounting the most recent addition who has done so in support of the hilarious*/ hilariousetc / hilariousandco trio of alts distasteful satire which has been addressed elsewhere, all of the rest who distrust my mobile alt have done so on the pretext of preventing my mobile alt's trust feedbacks (all twelve of them) or my DT trust/distrust (of which there is none) from showing up on default trust given my main alt trusts my mobile alt which I did after reading the example given by LoyceV and cited by others in this thread.

Simply not true.

I did not agree with the feedback hilarious left you, and I definitely did not agree with the fact he left you two negatives from different accounts. However, that was the first time I found myself disagreeing with feedback hilarious (as a person) had left, and so did not deem it sufficient to remove either of his accounts from my trust list.

I also did not agree with feedback you (as a person) left, and it was definitely not the first time I had disagreed with feedback that you (as a person) had left (as I have made clear before), and so I deemed it sufficient to exclude from my trust list accounts I know to be operated by you.

All my decisions regarding my trust list are based on what I want to see. What knock on effects this may or may not have on default trust does not factor in to my decision making at all.

From a quick glance some of these users' DT support one or the other of the two main alts in our given example. That makes their actions hypocritical in that they Default Trust both main alts for one person while using the reasoning another user's alt should be distrusted. (Unless of course their DT trusts were placed that long ago they just haven't given any thought to the repocussions of DT trusting two alts.?)

As discussed above. I trust and distrust an individual's judgement, not an account's, as any sane person should. If I trust or distrust the judgements or feedback of a person, why should them making a new account suddenly wipe the slate clean?

[Timelord2067]

... and it was definitely not the first time I had disagreed with feedback that you (as a person) had left (as I have made clear before), ...

You have?  I'm sorry to say I must have missed that occurring as I have been trying to recall us having encountered each-other before your distrust a couple of days ago and I'm sorry to say I can't recall any occasions ever where we've responded in the same threads much less come to blows (my phrasing, not yours).

Distrusting me without talking prior, during or after an event isn't going to change things and you'll just stay angry and bitter. 

Care to talk about things?  What's bothering you?

the hilarious*/ hilariousetc / hilariousandco trio of alts
~
it's a very real thing that the trio of alts in our example can also quietly sell one or the other of their lucrative alts.

I don't expect this to happen before Bitcointalk implements KYC. There's no way anyone will get away with taking over a well-known account without being noticed. Being Most Recognized makes it much harder to impersonate someone.

Were you in the slightest bit surprised that Bruno sold their account?

[o_e_l_e_o]

You have?  I'm sorry to say I must have missed that occurring as I have been trying to recall us having encountered each-other before your distrust a couple of days ago and I'm sorry to say I can't recall any occasions ever where we've responded in the same threads much less come to blows (my phrasing, not yours).

Please see below. It seems I also had the foresight to preempt the issue regarding your alt account.

I don't distrust you yet, but your frivolous ratings on Foxpup and hilarious' trust pages which I've just been made aware of are making a pretty strong case for it. If and when I do distrust you, know that I reached that decision entirely of my own volition.

And for the record, if I distrust you I will also distrust your alt: I'm distrusting you as a person, not the specific account you happen to be using at the time. I'd call that "common sense" rather than "immature".

What's bothering you?

I do not agree with your feedback. It's really as simple as that.