Proof of pure luck

[100bitcoin]

This system, known as Provably Fair, has been known for years, and it probably greatly contributed to the growth of crypto gambling industry, since it solved the problem of trusting in the fairness of the game.

Was the way I wrote known for years? I thought they made their packages open source.

What do you mean? Provably fair system is well documented for a long time and their are many ways to prove a site that they are fair in generating random number. Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provably_fair_algorithm

The game in my signature let players guess the last digit of a future block hash. That is provably fair as well.

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[Oceat]

You mean the cloutbet issue and the other sites who did not pay their gamblers, they are out of the business and some of them will eventually out of business, the best decision for a gambler to make is to pick the right gambling site to play, once they find it you will have no issues as long as you are following the rules.

I think cloudbet is a good gambling site before but its just suddenly change when they start scamming their players. Although open scam accusation is already made, people should practice doing the "do your own research first" before trusting something. It wouldn't hurt that much if you know something than just blindly guess this is a good casino site but it turns out they were shady from the start.

[Saint-loup]

AFAIK authentic randomness can only be achieved with physical randomness like real dices, coins, card decks, nuclear activity, etc. But here we are talking about unbiased randomness, it's quite different.

I believe it's vice versa. I've seen articles about people rolling physical dice to their advantage, coins being rigged with one side slightly harder than another and things like wind or surface playing their role. So I think that only a virtual dice can fall to one of the six sides with exactly equal probability and thus truly randomly. And of course many games offer not random results, but with the special outcome probabilities that a player chose (which can also be done only virtually).
As for the specifics of a provably fair system, maybe it doesn't matter that much, as long as there's no way a casino would cheat.

I disagree with that. A computer can easily generate outcomes with a specific probability value but it doesn't mean the outcomes will be really random.
For example 123456 123456 123456 is an outcome with an equal occurrence of all sides of a dice, but it's not random.  

[dimonstration]

You mean the cloutbet issue and the other sites who did not pay their gamblers, they are out of the business and some of them will eventually out of business, the best decision for a gambler to make is to pick the right gambling site to play, once they find it you will have no issues as long as you are following the rules.

I think cloudbet is a good gambling site before but its just suddenly change when they start scamming their players. Although open scam accusation is already made, people should practice doing the "do your own research first" before trusting something. It wouldn't hurt that much if you know something than just blindly guess this is a good casino site but it turns out they were shady from the start.

Being active here in forum will let us know whether it's a good casino or not, we we're able to see the positive and negative part of many casinos here as we are updated whether there is a scam accusations, pending withdrawal and even bugs and support problems. Through this we minimize the chance of being scam or wasting our time in not deserving casino. Though it's saddening that cloudbet didn't resolve yet their issues as they used to be a good popular casino site before, so we really need to be updated in what casino we're playing.

[Saint-loup]

Thanks for the information and detailed explanation. AFAIK, it is possible to change player seed on many gambling platforms and this should increase randomness.

Few months in the gambling industry and I've never seen anyone ever questioning: How am I supposed to be sure that what am I playing is based on pure luck?

The owners could have simply programmed the numbers in a way to always be profitable, but not 100% lucky. The problem is that even if the admins were honest and said that the numbers of their game are getting generated randomly, there's no proof that they do. You still have to trust them and since we're talking about entrepreneurs, we can't be sure they're not lying. By making the program open source, yes, you do have made a big step, but still, the client can't view the back-end's code to check that the files are the open sourced ones.
[...]

I'm sorry but being provably fair doesn't mean being perfectly random.
With this system, you can still chose combinations less often played by users. For example it's well known people like to play dates of birth in this kind of games or figures deemed to be lucky numbers as 7, 1, 13, etc

That is why gamblers prefer to bet on lucky numbers aka date of birth, wedding day, etc. Btw, is it possible to achieve 100% authentic randomness?

AFAIK authentic randomness can only be achieved with physical randomness like real dices, coins, card decks, nuclear activity, etc. But here we are talking about unbiased randomness, it's quite different.

Actually, if we talk of authentic randomness, as in random in the strictest sense of the word, there is no such a thing, not even in the physical roll of a dice, or flip of a coin, and so on. And so we are only settling on an acceptable amount of randomness, something which far exceeds our unaided human computation. I guess this is good enough for RNGs.

I agree with you but I was talking about "authentic randomness" with the meaning of being the opposite of pseudorandomness...
I agree with you perfect randomness is really hard to achieve and maybe not even reachable. But there is also randomness in the choice of your not perfectly random dices...

[DoublerHunter]

~snip~

Provably fair is the foundation where Cryptocurrency online gambling is built, without this people will always have the allegation that they have been cheated, that is why Crypto gambling sites can stay online for many years because of the provably fair and the house edge, but still gamblers should always check the gambling site where they are playing, some of the issues and allegations are none payment and allegations of breaking the rules of gamblers.

^ Definitely right, if there is no provably fair system on each online casino that has a house edge, I don't how to trust gambling casino since there is evidence of how they generate the exact number of results. Just like dice, lottery, keno, and many others that players will fight the house edge. Even though their house edge uniformly 1%, but still they had different results.
Nevertheless, for me, this provably fair mechanism of each gambling sites was an identification to prove that your site is not manipulated by the owner.

[btc-facebook]

Lottery is a pure luck-based game which is really hard to win. You need to combine a lot of numbers that has really a low probability of winning due to a lot of possible combinations that might come out. Let's say that you need to choose between 1- 50 and make a combination of 6 number in any order, that's really hard to do and to guess. That's the proof that pure luck can be experienced in playing lottery, roulette, and etc. It is obviously a pure luck gambling game if it make you lose a lot of money first until you win.

Lottery is a pure luck, but there are several ways to win it, because usually before the Lottery is drawn there are several clues to the numbers that will come out,
because the lottery maker usually gives that clue, it's not all lottery but it can be tried to analyze it,
You can analyze the previous lottery results, sometimes there are several clues to the numbers that often come out.

note: that not all lotteries are like that, just a few, I've done them and were successful.

[Peanutswar]

Lottery is a pure luck-based game which is really hard to win. You need to combine a lot of numbers that has really a low probability of winning due to a lot of possible combinations that might come out. Let's say that you need to choose between 1- 50 and make a combination of 6 number in any order, that's really hard to do and to guess. That's the proof that pure luck can be experienced in playing lottery, roulette, and etc. It is obviously a pure luck gambling game if it make you lose a lot of money first until you win.

Lottery is a pure luck, but there are several ways to win it, because usually before the Lottery is drawn there are several clues to the numbers that will come out,
because the lottery maker usually gives that clue, it's not all lottery but it can be tried to analyze it,
You can analyze the previous lottery results, sometimes there are several clues to the numbers that often come out.

note: that not all lotteries are like that, just a few, I've done them and were successful.

The lottery is one of the hardest game we could possibly play but there is a chance you win with your old ticket, right here in my country there are a lot of people join in a lottery supported by the government and there is a chance only like a small probability that you will win, still there is a chance why not right?. Also, there are a lot of stories right there that a man always wins a lottery ticket with just a random number but still, he is a greedy man and wastes all of the money in just a single week those funds AFAIK are approximately $10,000, If I were that man better to invest and keep those funds instead of spending on beer and party all night. Pure luck but no pure skills.

[maydna]

The lottery is one of the hardest game we could possibly play but there is a chance you win with your old ticket

Even if the lottery is one of the hardest gambling games to win, people tend to buy the ticket in a large amount. With the cheap price for one ticket, they can use some money to buy the ticket many times. That doesn't stop them from buying another ticket on other days because the prizes tempt them to dream of winning it. That is why the lottery that is supported by the government will always attract many people interest in buying the ticket because they can win those prizes if they have a large number of tickets.

The lottery is one of the pure luck of gambling games, making people like to test their luck. No matter if they need to buy a large amount, they still enjoy the games.

[smyslov]

What do you mean? Provably fair system is well documented for a long time and their are many ways to prove a site that they are fair in generating random number. Read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provably_fair_algorithm

The game in my signature let players guess the last digit of a future block hash. That is provably fair as well.

Well it's really provably fair because it's transparent and you cannot change the outcome of the hash, provably fair is already well documented like what you stated and those who are playing for a long time are not questioning it anymore only those new players and who just come here without any knowledge about provably fair.

[iamsheikhadil]

It's a nice idea but this is what most casinos do as well which are provably fair! They give you a server hash which you can later verify by combining with your client seed and check if the results produced are the same or not. Am I missing something? Because technically it's the same thing as you have just proposed! Sites that offer keno games like stake, have the exact same mechanism to prove that they are indeed fair!

Fair or not, the possibility of the house defrauding will still be an existing threat to players particularly the high rollers. They could still run with the money just as it had happened in the past. The only thats is important I think is how long the casino had established themselves in the industry that had build the trust over time. When a casino had been around for years and have not gotten some accusations, will not run out of players whether they play out of luck or with a strategy implemented.

Well, there's that type of risk everywhere in the world isn't it? We can't then trust anyone. Casinos make money off the house edge, which guarantees them profit in the long run, and they really make huge money like that. If a casino runs away by stealing users money, then that's a foolish thing they are doing, by destroying their good-will and losing on the opportunity of making much more money off the house-edge than just running away with some bucks. The high-rollers or anyone who's gambling addicted even after winning lots, will continue to play and lose in the long run because of house-edge

[swogerino]

I think that provably fair is great in itself but I am still not convinced in slots gameplay that all the spins are completely independent of each other.Why for example we don’t hit the bonus round 5 times in a row?Because the game is still software comtrolled and they have predetermined what is the amount they will give out.I know this is called house edge but still I want to link it to the provably fair mechanism.

[xenon131]

Few months in the gambling industry and I've never seen anyone ever questioning: How am I supposed to be sure that what am I playing is based on pure luck?

The owners could have simply programmed the numbers in a way to always be profitable, but not 100% lucky.
~

Hey, your  luck is easy to check. Instead of using centralized platform that can be manipulated by owners try p2p ones for betting. I wrote the simple guide explaining in pictures how to bet on sport events using smart-contracts developed by Obyte that  offers truly  p2p betting. Anyone is welcomed to test his/her own luck:   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5278618.0

[plr]

You mean the cloutbet issue and the other sites who did not pay their gamblers, they are out of the business and some of them will eventually out of business, the best decision for a gambler to make is to pick the right gambling site to play, once they find it you will have no issues as long as you are following the rules.

I think cloudbet is a good gambling site before but its just suddenly change when they start scamming their players. Although open scam accusation is already made, people should practice doing the "do your own research first" before trusting something. It wouldn't hurt that much if you know something than just blindly guess this is a good casino site but it turns out they were shady from the start.

They even launch a signature campaign and hired one of the best manager here it took them a long time to build their reputation only to lose with the so many bad reports from gamblers, we can say that we should always check for bad reports on our favorite gambling, if they scammed their players you could be the next.

[erikoy]

They even launch a signature campaign and hired one of the best manager here it took them a long time to build their reputation only to lose with the so many bad reports from gamblers, we can say that we should always check for bad reports on our favorite gambling, if they scammed their players you could be the next.

Well that would be part of their plan on launching a signature campaign but I think probably that project had been acting not good is because of their management. We know that money is very hot and tempting and this could be the reason why they got bad reputations after the implementation of the project.

Anyway, gambling site with provably fair on their gambling site description is really fair. As other users had mention that this is the way to get the gamblers in their platform knowing how they have done in their business. But this provably fair is not really an assurance that gamblers will going to win. Still this design is in favor of the Gambling site and since this is business they don't need that pure luck to earn. They had just some advantage on it and this is their business are always doing good. Provably fair could be a good way to attract gamblers but the real essence in gambling sites is for them to earn.

[semobo]

Probably fair concept exist here for very long time and most of the casinos promote themselves with such name so people no need to worry about the luck because its actually a random string produces their results.

[iTradeChips]

Well, we can simply ask those who are already into this for a long time and ask them if they sense something different with the system that they play on. Surely many would have accused them of cheating, but there is no evidence. It is really random system that this works on. I don't think there is cheating involved. Maybe I am wrong but without evidence we can never be sure. Just simply trust in the system and continue playing.

[btc78]

Reading this hit me with a realization.

As long as we are gambling online, either slot, roulette or dice, we can't achieve that randomness that we all wanted unless we actually use a natural dice, roulette, I don't know about slots though. Then if you win, a casino could make an exit scam and won't pay the winners or even sometimes freeze the account, provable fair my $$$.

and they tell you that you are using multiple accounts thats why they are freezing your winning lol.
common style of scam casinos and even those big casinos got involved in this at some times.

Probably fair concept exist here for very long time and most of the casinos promote themselves with such name so people no need to worry about the luck because its actually a random string produces their results.

But luck is what people needs in gambling with those games,not unless you have a great skills in a certain game then things will change.

[shoreno]

Well, we can simply ask those who are already into this for a long time and ask them if they sense something different with the system that they play on. Surely many would have accused them of cheating, but there is no evidence. It is really random system that this works on. I don't think there is cheating involved. Maybe I am wrong but without evidence we can never be sure. Just simply trust in the system and continue playing.

no need to ask them because there is already a feature to knew if a site or the game you play is based on pure luck and those feature can also be found on the game or on the site your are betting  . asking random people can be inacurate because they can lie and say that sites lie or they cant simply tell the truth theirselves   . theres a guy before that came with his own evidence and accuse the platform but i didnt follow its thread , i  have no update on thier discussion but i can still see the platform continue operating till now .

[Twinkledoe]

Reading this hit me with a realization.

As long as we are gambling online, either slot, roulette or dice, we can't achieve that randomness that we all wanted unless we actually use a natural dice, roulette, I don't know about slots though. Then if you win, a casino could make an exit scam and won't pay the winners or even sometimes freeze the account, provable fair my $$$.

and they tell you that you are using multiple accounts thats why they are freezing your winning lol.
common style of scam casinos and even those big casinos got involved in this at some times.

Probably fair concept exist here for very long time and most of the casinos promote themselves with such name so people no need to worry about the luck because its actually a random string produces their results.

But luck is what people needs in gambling with those games,not unless you have a great skills in a certain game then things will change.

I have seen several accusations regarding freezing account or accusing of multi-accounts, even known casinos here in the forum. That's their common reasoning whenever a particular player has huge winnings. And you can't do anything about it as a player, but to publish your situation if they will not be amenable to your demands. If you can prove that you are not in anyway involved in violating their terms, you can get the support of the people here and they will give negative trust to that casino unless they resolved your situation. That is one good reason why it is better to play in casinos who have their threads and accounts here. Because people can help you whenever you got in trouble. But when it comes to provable fairness, I guess better stick to reputable and known casinos.