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Author Topic: The forum software defames people due to poor design. When's the fix coming?  (Read 303 times)
Laudanum (OP)
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December 02, 2020, 01:21:23 PM
 #1

The red warning banner claiming some members say this person is a scammer
The yellow warning banner claiming some members believe this person is guilty of financially motivated wrong doing.
Are bogus and defamatory.
There are members that have never committed anything related to scamming or financially motivated wrong doing at all.
Nobody has even made any claims they have HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh

So why then is this stupid design pumping out bogus and defamatory warnings. HuhHuhHuh??


When are these false and defamatory banners getting removed or fixed?
This is clearly a design flaw.

The very abuse that forced the attempt at a fix aka the flag system is grandfathered in to this design ?
If you were trust abused aka given red tags for things entirely unrelated to scamming or any form of financially motivated wrong doing that was ABUSE under the old system ( pre flag)  there is no debate.

So if you had your trust account trust ABUSED aka getting red trust for whistleblowing on scammers in DT then that abuse is grandfathered in. That is the most stupid idea since the merit system with no strict stipulation or guidelines for giving merit lol which also apparently makes you super trustworthy

Anyway I digress. When will the banners say

Some members believe this person is pushing for fair, transparent and objective standards?

Or

Some self serving self appointed greedy conniving cunts on DT beleive this member is a threat to their money grab on bitcointalk

Or

Some people here claim this person is a troll but have never been able to isolate once instance where he presented something as true after it had been conclusively debunked.


Or if you dont like those put - some members believe this person is a CUNT.

Just dont make the forum software pump out lies.

The forum is a design mess.  It is over complex and fails at the basics. It has also alienated a lot of elder more successful members. Clearly allowed abuse of the rev streams and crushed free speech.

It is almost like theymos was hacked by anti theymos.

There is no way the old theymos would introduce this kind of system and let it go this long. This is clearly a copy of the central banking system.
Those that issue merit from their ass get to control the free speech, trading and income of every person on the forum now.
Lol at theymos making the most anti satoshi system possible for this forum.
I don't buy it.

Anyway let's fix the forums software publishing observably bogus and defamatory crap about members that have never scammed or never committed any financially motivated wrong doing.

Debunk my points or fix this shit.











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December 02, 2020, 02:00:22 PM
 #2

pretty sure no one gets those warning unless a flag is raised or unless they get bad trust ratings.

your account has multiple red trust - mainly, it looks like, because it is claimed your account is an alt of another very much unliked account.

besides, have you seen the new forums ? as much money and time that has been spent on them and these forum are still 1 million times better than the "replacement" is.


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December 02, 2020, 02:00:42 PM
 #3

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Laudanum (OP)
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December 02, 2020, 02:37:03 PM
 #4

pretty sure no one gets those warning unless a flag is raised or unless they get bad trust ratings.

your account has multiple red trust - mainly, it looks like, because it is claimed your account is an alt of another very much unliked account.

besides, have you seen the new forums ? as much money and time that has been spent on them and these forum are still 1 million times better than the "replacement" is.



This is not true.

Please re read everything that I have posted its independently verifiable and undeniably true.

Ignore this account it has no banners above it.
This is pertaining to accounts that were trust abused prior to the flag system where the abuse and now sanctioned defamation is grandfathered in.

It's a design flaw.
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December 02, 2020, 02:50:20 PM
 #5

The system is designed the way it is designed, it can always be better - it is not perfect, but it is far better than it was 3-4 years ago when the forum was an empire of scammers and spammers who did whatever came to their mind. I don't like some things either, but since I don't have a specific solution to fix them, I follow the rules like most other members.

Lol at theymos making the most anti satoshi system possible for this forum.

We live in a digital age where anyone can start a forum, set their own rules and enjoy those same rules - why not try that approach?

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Laudanum (OP)
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December 02, 2020, 02:54:57 PM
Last edit: December 02, 2020, 03:20:45 PM by Laudanum
 #6

The system is designed the way it is designed, it can always be better - it is not perfect, but it is far better than it was 3-4 years ago when the forum was an empire of scammers and spammers who did whatever came to their mind. I don't like some things either, but since I don't have a specific solution to fix them, I follow the rules like most other members.

Lol at theymos making the most anti satoshi system possible for this forum.

We live in a digital age where anyone can start a forum, set their own rules and enjoy those same rules - why not try that approach?

It is easy to say endure a system flaw, if that flaw is not punishing you.
Would you want to be defamed a scammer or guilty of financially motivated wrongdoing when there is zero evidence of that and zero persons even claiming that. Add to that imagine the persons responsible have been found guilty of undeniable scamming and financially motivated wrongdoing??

What would you say?

Suboptimal ?

What about a bank error that took all your money then alerted the cops you're guilty of fraud and put you in jail. ?

Suboptimal ? Just ensure it?


No. I'm in the forum satoshi created  and following the transparent trustless and decentralized principles he appears to have valued.

Red trust and lemons flags (level 1) are useless subjective crap. So fair enough for those. However the banners make specific claims and clearly mean to indicate you're a scammer and are guilty of financially motivated wrong doing.

Actually a level 1 flag also needs attention even now aside from the grandfathered in trust abuse banner.
If the flag is not specifically relating to scamming, attempting to scam or setting up a scam  then no such financial warning can be placed or it is entirely false.

You are getting back to the scammers drink lemonade nonsense that was debunked.


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December 03, 2020, 03:58:27 PM
Last edit: December 03, 2020, 05:58:00 PM by nullius
 #7

OP, your main account does not currently show me any warning banners on your threads—not the red banner, and not the yellow newbie warning banner from a logged-out browser.  I don’t know why...  Have you checked recently?  More about you below; but first, let’s illustrate some of what I have to say about your banner problem, with the example of a point about me!  :-)

SIMILAR actions are of course on topic as a precedent and for obvious comparison.



Anyway I digress. When will the banners say [...]
Or if you dont like those put - some members believe this person is a CUNT.

AWESOME! 🧨


I am officially lobbying thermos @theymos! to put that banner* at the top of all my threads, and to sticky suchmoon’s troll thread in Reputation.  To drive home the point, he should administratively override the “NSFW” rule, and add to the banner a real-life photograph of a cunt (shaved, lips spread).  Make it official:  nullius is a cunt”!

(* Border #c0809c, background #faf0ef, though perhaps it could use a few tweaks.  I need to consult some Pantone charts for cunty colours, and/or take some colour samples of skin and genitalia from porn.)

Actually, I would not be wholly surprised if this somehow works its way into thermos’ April Fool’s joke a few months hence...

And seriously, it is a classic (or should I say, an anticlassic) of gutter-minded low cultural standards.  It is a thread of sociological and psychological significance, which should be studied as doctors study cancerous tumours.  Oh, and by the time it is through, suchmoon will die of sheer humiliation over it.  She trolled herself as hard as the goatse man sitting on a traffic cone.

When Robovac (label says “Made in Switzerland”, but it’s actually assembled in Switzerland from parts made in Vietnam) says to “have a thick skin”, he obviously doesn’t mean for people to have a thick skin and sharp claws toward suchmoon.  Whoops.

—By the way, I note that suchloon has now changed her little spam pic for her object of passionate obsession, Mr “cryptocunt”.  pwned!  A few minutes with potrace, and some creativity...  It can be fixed.



The foregoing conceptually illustrates a question for OP:  Why do you care?

If you are being principled about defamation, well—Lauda was principled about defamation, so you are learning from her.  Lauda fought suchmoon about this, because Lauda red-tagged for defamation, and self-appointed DT cheerleader suchmoon has decreed that red tags must be trade-related.  (...and all the while, suchmoon uses “neutral” tags to defame people and/or cast them in a false light...)

Thus if you want to stop defamation, to have a consistent standard, you need to join in the legacy of Lauda’s fight to make sure that DTs can tag defamers without risking DT exclusion.
Therefore, difference in opinion =/= defamation =/= malicious trolling and other bullshit. The latter two are inherently untrustworthy, and suchmoony I am sorry but that is just real life.
Whoops.  Your main account has a Lauda tag for defaming Lauda. :-/
Trusted feedback
Lauda2019-04-04ReferenceFalsely claims that I am a scammer, in addition to threatening me with consequences for speaking out against this user. Highly untrustworthy to say the least.
I cannot see the reference link; archive.fo started Google-CAPTCHAing Tor users sometime last year, even at their onion, and I refuse those Google CAPTCHAs.  If anyone could provide me the original link, or an archive.org link, that would be appreciated so that I can see exactly what happened when I was gone in 2018–19.  No, I don’t want for cryptohunter to repeat himself:  I want to see archival content represented by the archive.fo link.  Thanks.

Now, let’s not derail this thread and its highly productive discussion into an argument over Lauda.  I knew Lauda better than that—she was not at all a “scammer supporter”; and the last time that I earnestly tried to chase down the “evidence” that one of your presumed alts presented of Lauda’s being a “scammer supporter”, all I found was that years ago, when she was a total n00b, she bought into a scammy altcoin which, a few years later, she herself called a scam.  So many n00bs get sucked into scammy altcoins—it is why n00bs need to be warned about such scams, with tags and flags.

Let’s talk about you.

So, besides principles, what other reasons could there be for you to fear using your main account on account of its trust ratings... hmmm...

You claim to have millions of dollars worth of bitcoins, Lambos that can pull heavily loaded horse trailers (lulz!), etc., etc.  Taking what you say at face value, some red paint really can’t harm you financially.  Can it?

You condemn sigspamming.  As a practical matter, the most popular complaint about red trust is, “Oh noes, now I can’t get the best campaigns and richest bounties!!”  I guess you don’t care about that.

Why not do what Quickseller does:  Ignore the trust ratings, and just do your thing with your main account.  I actually admire his balls, the way he keeps going like that.  There is even something noble about it:  “I am me, and you won’t change my identity!”

Nowadays, every new post by Quickseller is essentially a big fuck-you to everyone who still red-trusts him.  He has shown evidence of good character, and he hasn’t done anything bad in a long time; his DT rating will eventually thus become a joke to the smarter regulars—if DT members don’t eventually revise their tags and their flag support, sooner or later.  Lately, I have indeed been chuckling whenever I open a Quickseller thread in a logged-out browser, and see the big banana above his OP.

Anyway, every intelligent user who reaches above Newbie rank will build a trust list that excludes at least a two or three dozen score DT1s.  So they will not see even a hypothetical? red banner on you, unless you got in trouble with someone wise and judicious, such as Lauda.  (Admittedly, you may be in trouble!)

Any-anyway, every intelligent user uses the trust system as a guide, not as the all-important Source of Revealed Truth.  This is not to denigrade the importance of stopping bad tags, but have some perspective about using your main account.  If you have a reputation with longtime users on the forum, and a big post history, then intelligent users will take everything into account:  Your trust page, and otherwise.  (Admittedly, you may be in big trouble.)

If (hypothetically) the trust ratings on you were all just totally wrong, then I would agree with you that the banner is unjust, and it should be somehow removed.  But let’s talk first in practical terms—and in terms of refined, intelligent discourse that even suchmoon could understand:  Why do you give a fuck?



A challenge to OP:  Continue this discussion using your main account!  It will actually upset suchmoon.

Perhaps then, since your Legendary account can’t be called a “n00btroll”, it may be accused of being someone else’s alt.  If you are very lucky, you may become Lauda’s alt like me.  But I doubt you have earned that.  Anyway, it is a forum tradition...

We're all alts of TC. This is all a dream, and everyone is dead when TC wakes up.

You don’t need to acknowledge the link between accounts, which is often an unwise policy.  (When a user is accused of being a sock account, admitting when it is true leads people too much to demand denial when it is false; and I am well on record as being against inquisitions that coerce people to deny false accusations without evidence.)  Perhaps cryptohunter got bored with his Lambos, decided to check what’s happening on the forum, and noticed that OP here is highly intelligent and in need of support.  #justsaying



Those that issue merit from their ass get to control the free speech, trading and income of every person on the forum now.

I agree with you that the selection of merit sources is badly implemented, and some merit sources behave irresponsibly.

I think that merit source privileges should be subject to periodic review—and “unapplications”, in case of those who systematically abuse source merits as a political tool to build their own meatpuppet armies.

(Pro tip cryptohunter:  Next time you want to argue with DireWolfM14, try calling him a meatpuppet instead of... the usual.  Wikipedia links add authority, especially Wikipedia links about Wikipedia adminstrative policies and community standards.  —Also, point out evidence that when DireWolfM14 makes alt account accusations, they are sometimes so bizarre that either he must be taking LSD like nutildah, or he must be mentally retarded—and either way, he is a superannuated child.  —If you stop defaming Lauda, and stop following the suchmoon/nutildah playbook of following around users they dislike with troll off-topic personal attacks, maybe you can even become my fan!)

But with that said, let us examine some empirical evidence of just how much certain users can control others via the merit system.

I noticed that this account, whose post history reflects that it must be my #0 fan, attained the Member-rank requirement of 10 merits in just over 46 hours after account registration—when some particular DTs and merit sources seem to hate it for some reason!

Check the post history.  6 of those merits came from OgNasty’s tests of competence for basic signing and encryption.  But 4 of those merits were purely from writing good posts (for example), and it now has 6 merits for good posts.  If sufficient effort were wasted applied, it could obviously become Legendary just as fast as activity allows.

The drama-queen popularity contest players can’t stop meritorious users from getting merits!

Those that issue merit from their ass get to control the free speech,

I don’t see this user’s free speech being controlled by the merit system:
If you're ONLY here, or MAINLY here for signature campaign, then you should go away. You are spammer.

Everybody should stay away from the shitcoin bounties.

[...]

If good user here for discussion, then rank up and merit will happen naturally. Don't even think about how to do it! (unless, lolz, you are like me, Newbie want to post noncommercial images with no paying for Copper account... stupid restrictions only made because of spammers and other abusers! Less than 24 hours after signup, I already got 1 merit I need... this is my 14th post, next activity period starts in hour and a half... I will post images freely, starting in about two weeks from now. Cheesy)

Best users are those who DO NOT CARE too much about mere status symbols = rank and merit. (Same like in the rest of life.)

Despite nutty nutildah following it around with off-topic personal attacks:


So this is what you want to do with your life now, is it nullius? Shit on newbies for being poor and wanting to find work? We've just reached ATHs and you started a second third account to lambaste those who just got here for not knowing what this place is all about...

Give it a rest, man. You don't own this forum. Theymos has explicitly stated multiple times he thinks its cool that the forum can provide a source of income for those who may not otherwise be exposed to many opportunities. If you don't like it, go start your own forum.

—which assuredly violates this standard:

It seems like the concept of off topic isn't clicking, or you disagree with the concept. If the Original Post of the topic is not what you are discussing, it isn't allowed. Moderators will give reasonable consideration to posts on very strongly related topics, but regardless of how important or true a post you make is, if it isn't on topic, its getting deleted.



For the record, I think that the trust system is broken.  I have been expressing my criticism of what I call “democratic DT” since about 76 hours after I returned to the forum at the beginning of this year; and I have described the change from old DT to new DT as “out of the frying pan, into the fire”.

In my opinion, this was the most plausible solution ever suggested; but it no longer exists:
1 month Kitty admin and this place will be booming with innovation again.  Smiley
I keep quoting that post only because it’s good.  I agree with actmyname that it probably was not a CH thread.

I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with the points in OP here.  Partly from my own opinions, and partly in the manner of devil’s advocate, I am simply trying to engage CH in a constructive discussion.  I have been intending to try to engage him in a serious discussion.  The only holdup is that he is purportedly busy with his millions, and I am busy with a book (LOL at the concept blurred as “NSFW”).
also, [size=100pt]I am not named after "The-One-Above-All"!!![/size]


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December 03, 2020, 05:32:35 PM
 #8

OP, your main account does not currently show me any warning banners on your threads—not the red banner, and not the yellow newbie warning banner from a logged-out browser.  I don’t know why...  Have you checked recently?

Actually it does show the banner but the thread need to be in a board where feedback is visible, like this one

The system is not perfect (yet) but is slowly evolving. At some point some currently trivial parameter will be tweaked so it makes all the difference in the world (or in this case, forum). This is how thing usually work imo

I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with the points in OP here... I am simply trying to engage CH in a constructive discussion.

Who knows... might just work !
I guess deep inside every rational human being there's a troll... or was it the other way around... inside every troll there's a human...  Huh you get the point !


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December 03, 2020, 06:02:30 PM
 #9

A challenge to OP:  Continue this discussion using your main account!  It will actually upset suchmoon.

QFT!

OP, your main account does not currently show me any warning banners on your threads—not the red banner, and not the yellow newbie warning banner from a logged-out browser.  I don’t know why...  Have you checked recently?

Actually it does show the banner but the thread need to be in a board where feedback is visible, like this one

Nullius is Like an absent-minded Professor sometimes, with n00b mistakes. SURELY he knew that. Roll Eyes

I say This as #0 Nullius Fan. Keiner über Alles!

For my part , I thank you for eXplaining so All here can better learn how the system works .

I guess deep inside every rational human being there's a troll... or was it the other way around... inside every troll there's a human...  Huh you get the point !

Yes, good point ! Cheesy
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December 06, 2020, 11:00:41 PM
Last edit: December 07, 2020, 01:42:53 AM by Laudanum
 #10

As much as I like talking to nullius more now that he's being shadow banned by DT1 inner core, I still dont wish this to get side tracked into a lauda thread especially one that is full of nonsense. Lauda was a proven scammer. Nobody debunked the independently verifiable evidence. A couple of flimsy attempts at excusing were destroyed. Even the smartest person on the forum after reviewing it agreed lauda was guilty of very shitty behavior. That was especially biting for the cat since it was always purring around the heels of certain super brains who were sensibly quick to clarify they were no pals of dirty kitty at all.

Just like lauda was a proven intentional and sneaky plagiarist who sought to punish and get people banned for some sloppy or non intentional copy and paste. A hypocritical slimy scamming scourge.

Lets forget about lauda on this thread please.  


Now back to on topic.

The forums software makes up lies and defames people.
DT defame members as trolls or mentally ill when they want attempt to silence a member from presenting independently verifiable evidence of their prior wrong doing or double standards.

However the forums software goes further. It takes their spurious and provably false claims that they use as the bases for their red tags and mutates them into claims of financially motivated wrong doing and scamming?

It still continues to do this via the type 1 lemons flag now where there is no requirement to demonstrate the person scammed , attempted to scam or strongly appeared to be setting up a scam or have any examples of financially motivated wrongdoing in their past at all.

To make matters worse if you were trust abused under the old system as explained above, the abuse is not only grandfathered in the punishment is increased under the flagging system. You dont just get to keep your red tags abuse aka wasnt given for scamming or any financially motivated wrongdoing at all , you now get a new shiny you're a scammer banner.

As to " why do you care or why does it matter"  well of course if you're a legend and have been here 8 years or more then wearing. Gambling sig does just say I don't give 1 fuck about people getting scammed really and feeding their habit I am also a fucking loser who needs my btc dust each week. Same to a lesser extent for mixer spammers who should be independently wealthy by now.
Perhaps though having the forum tell lies that members are scammers or guilty of financially motivated wrong doing is objectionable.?
Doing this to arguably the most successful scam hunter the forum has ever known would be even more insulting.

Lets stick to the core points though rather than making it about specific individuals.

Why does the forums software make up lies about members and defame them?

Why is there no strict mandate to DT to examine the red trust issued before the flagging system was introduced and If there is zero evidence scamming, setting up a scam or attempting to scam or clearly financially motivated wrong doing then reduce it to neutral or you're blacklisted ? It's not that difficult.

It is also obvious that diluting scammer warnings with non financially related personal gripes is dangerous and actually reduces the impact and heed that people will give those warnings.
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December 06, 2020, 11:23:01 PM
 #11

A challenge to OP:  Continue this discussion using your main account!  It will actually upset suchmoon.
QFT!
You know what?  My guess is that OP has lost track of what his main account actually is, and the rambling and the target of said rambling, and style thereof, make me think this is you-know-who-hunter, who said he was leaving this forum for good if I'm not mistaken.

As far as design flaws go....yeah well, a lot of this confusing shit was implemented by Theymos's unique neuroarchitecture, which I find mostly unfathomable.  But hey, I've been here for over five years now and there are very few things I'd drastically change.  I even like the look of the forum, which has that circa 2008 look.  And we all know why that's appropriate.

Anyway, the new forum software should be rolling out any day now.

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