WARNING: FortuneJack Refuses to Pay My Winning $6100 Tennis Bet or Return My BTC

[EpicChamp]

And while this betrader company may have given you the wrong odds initially, it was you who kept slowly dropping these odds by 0.2 units every 30 minutes in the first 2-3 hours when this line went up. This proves that this was not a "technical" error or an "accident" like you claim that it was - it was 100% intentional.

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Kindly asking you not to mislead the community once again by stating that we cancelled the bet intentionally.

Once again attaching the screenshot provided by a partner company of ours, that showcases the mistakenly shown odds at specific timeframes.



You've been continually shilling the ideas that you think is right without providing any proofs/data, whatsoever. To make the right decision, the community needs to see the process going on both of the ends. We would be more than welcome if your statement was fully backed by some data and analysis, all the comments made by you is written emotionally without any context and only points out to the pure scam.

FortuneJack, as the crypto-driven and supported casino/sportsbook, has never had the intention of stealing player's funds, in case making the mistake, we would be taking the responsibility and givings credits back to you, but it's not the case as for now.

Also, if your odd provider betrader made what they claim to be a "mistake", then that's 100% on them & their problem, as well as your responsibility for accepting these odds and making them official for 2-3 hours on your site, and then giving me the option to do a full or partial cashout for any % I wanted. This is something you should privately discuss or argue about with them, and if you don't want to pay the winnings out of your pocket, then they should do it out of their pocket because according to you, it was mostly their fault.

(Although I still don't understand why these would be the wrong odds or a mistake, because I believe that there was no clear favorite to win that match, and I can give you many reasons why it would make sense for De Jong's opponent to be the favorite initially at 1.4-1.5 odds; but once again, it's not up to me to decide)

My point is that this has nothing to do with me and is not my fault as the user/bettor, and I should not be penalized for it and lose out on thousands of dollars after choosing the right player to win because of their mistake, not mine.

Much like if I personally made a betting mistake of putting the wrong amount or choosing the wrong odds or decided to change my mind later, it would be too late - and if I wanted to cash out it would be for 30-50% less than what I put which normally wouldn't make any sense & I would be basically forced to accept my mistake as it is. That is 100% fair and I'm not going to be blaming anyone else but me for putting myself in this kind of unfavorable position. I always own up to my mistakes & take full responsibility, and I would like you to do the same.

So I kindly ask you to respect fair play as well and reward my bet as a regular win, much like all other betting sites did for their users on that day for the same match for everyone who bet on De Jong to win (even at 2.6+ odds, before he dropped).

P.S. It says in your image that the email was received on December 31st. Why is that when the match took place in November?

[cryptofrka]

I doubt that would ever happen, due to the fashion that he gained the balance it would probably be handled similarly to how a bug in a slot game or similar would.

I did not think of this as even a remote possibility until FJ confirmed it themselves. That actually means they made 2 consecutive technical mistakes. First one was to accept the bet with wrong odds, the next one was to offer the customer options that were not options after all (we still do not have a screenshot that confirms it though).
In that case it's not simply a math problem/issue anymore (which I assumed it was) and we enter the domain of the TOC. I kinda feel that FJ has it covered there.

We will be patiently waiting to receive more feedback from the community - as it's the case we pay attention to and would love to be treated rightfully.

As a customer, I'd be pissed at how you handled this if it happened to me (not you personally but FJ in general). I agree with EpicChamp that even if the provider was responsible for the wrong odds, you as a site should take responsibility as well. But I won't dwell on that, that's covered in TOC and I'm sure you are free to cancel bets in the way that you did.

I think all of this would not be as much of a problem if you just cancelled the bet instead of offering these 3 options in the first place. He'd probably accept it and move on because it's not the first time it happened. But we're talking about a decent amount of money, and in this case FJ really did a rollercoaster ride on the guy's emotions.
First he thought he made a good bet. Then it was voided partially and he thought OK, I already have some money because I withdrew my deposit and have some extra on the bet. Then the bet was cancelled although he picked the right outcome. Then he thought well, at least I still get my stake back. Ultimately, after all your technical difficulties and bad communication, the player was left with only his initial deposit.

I understand you are a big business that has a million users and tens of millions of bets. But when something like this happens, when you make continuous mistakes at the expense of the same user, even if you are right according to the TOC and even if it was all just a mistake, maybe some option can be found because like this it really leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Imagine the guy's feelings after losing bit by bit by bit of his winnings, even if they weren't actually winnings according to the TOC. He thought they were and that's important as well.

He was determined to play on that guy, if you voided it earlier he'd probably bet on it elsewhere. He did think he has a bet on FJ, therefore he did not bet somewhere else, therefore he lost even more money because of your miscommunication.

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Since this no longer becomes the discussion about stealing of funds and turns into 'what can we do as a bookie/what is the right thing to do', I'm withdrawing from the discussion because I already said my moral standpoint on situations like these in general. Since I'm sure you can wrap this all and say it's an error, I'm not sure what other options the player has other than possibly seeking justice in court. That would be really difficult though so I'd advise him not to - he'll probably just be wasting time and energy.

Since you asked for community's feedback - I'd rather see that FJ takes a part of the blame for this. It really is your fault, all of it, even if you can justify it with TOC it doesn't make it right. That's something that only you can decide though but I hope to see a fairer outcome than simply saying 'no harm done, let's move on'. Maybe try to make some kind of a deal with the player, so he actually gets something in return for this emotional whirlwind.

My 2 cents anyway, cheers to everybody.

[vennali]

brutal deception of fortunejack. see the judge's justification for obvious error
https://valuebettingblog.com/how-i-beat-888sport-in-court-and-got-paid/
– If there was an error on the bookmakers part, it cannot be passed on to the consumer

Seems to me that this is a similar case and you could potentially lawyer up. Thinking about this, Ive had mix response while trying to find bets that are undervalued. 1xbet paid me for all bets but one that were massively undervalued while Bet365 paid once but voided the bet the other few times. Cloudbet voided my bet in a similar fashion long ago. I didn't think much of it back then since I thought it was well within their rights to void the bet that were on the book due to either technical error or their incompetence. I didn't make any issue of it but I should have.  

In the end, I think it will come down to where FortuneJack are licensed and how will the law in that country interpret the situation.

Good Luck

[EpicChamp]

Also, another thing I'd like to point out is that if you look more closely into this, the odds for this match were not completely out of line either - anything under 3.0 is a reasonable amount (let alone 2.6), nor is it a huge mistake or a clear/technical error - especially for a challenger match where there was no clear favorite, with both players being close in rankings + had an equal chance of winning. Anything between the range of 1.3-3.0 (or 1.4/1.5-2.6) means the match is expected to be competitive, and the player who is expected to win is not a significant favorite and there could very well be an upset.

However, if De Jong was placed & given at 5.0+ odds (2x higher), then maybe I would understand why you would consider this more of a "mistake" or technical error (since it is hard to justify), and wanted to cancel it in advance (although even then it shouldn't happen because it is not the bettor's fault). But in my case, the odds were only 2.6 which I believe was very reasonable, fair and within the competitive range where it's hard to predict a clear winner or outcome.

So to cancel a bet in advance because 1 player was given only 2.6 odds in a competitive match without any clear favorites, and claim it as a technical error is simply not true and doesn't make any sense.

[FortuneJack]

I doubt that would ever happen, due to the fashion that he gained the balance it would probably be handled similarly to how a bug in a slot game or similar would.

I did not think of this as even a remote possibility until FJ confirmed it themselves. That actually means they made 2 consecutive technical mistakes. First one was to accept the bet with wrong odds, the next one was to offer the customer options that were not options after all (we still do not have a screenshot that confirms it though).
In that case it's not simply a math problem/issue anymore (which I assumed it was) and we enter the domain of the TOC. I kinda feel that FJ has it covered there.

We will be patiently waiting to receive more feedback from the community - as it's the case we pay attention to and would love to be treated rightfully.

As a customer, I'd be pissed at how you handled this if it happened to me (not you personally but FJ in general). I agree with EpicChamp that even if the provider was responsible for the wrong odds, you as a site should take responsibility as well. But I won't dwell on that, that's covered in TOC and I'm sure you are free to cancel bets in the way that you did.

I think all of this would not be as much of a problem if you just cancelled the bet instead of offering these 3 options in the first place. He'd probably accept it and move on because it's not the first time it happened. But we're talking about a decent amount of money, and in this case FJ really did a rollercoaster ride on the guy's emotions.
First he thought he made a good bet. Then it was voided partially and he thought OK, I already have some money because I withdrew my deposit and have some extra on the bet. Then the bet was cancelled although he picked the right outcome. Then he thought well, at least I still get my stake back. Ultimately, after all your technical difficulties and bad communication, the player was left with only his initial deposit.

I understand you are a big business that has a million users and tens of millions of bets. But when something like this happens, when you make continuous mistakes at the expense of the same user, even if you are right according to the TOC and even if it was all just a mistake, maybe some option can be found because like this it really leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Imagine the guy's feelings after losing bit by bit by bit of his winnings, even if they weren't actually winnings according to the TOC. He thought they were and that's important as well.

He was determined to play on that guy, if you voided it earlier he'd probably bet on it elsewhere. He did think he has a bet on FJ, therefore he did not bet somewhere else, therefore he lost even more money because of your miscommunication.

_______________________________________________________________

Since this no longer becomes the discussion about stealing of funds and turns into 'what can we do as a bookie/what is the right thing to do', I'm withdrawing from the discussion because I already said my moral standpoint on situations like these in general. Since I'm sure you can wrap this all and say it's an error, I'm not sure what other options the player has other than possibly seeking justice in court. That would be really difficult though so I'd advise him not to - he'll probably just be wasting time and energy.

Since you asked for community's feedback - I'd rather see that FJ takes a part of the blame for this. It really is your fault, all of it, even if you can justify it with TOC it doesn't make it right. That's something that only you can decide though but I hope to see a fairer outcome than simply saying 'no harm done, let's move on'. Maybe try to make some kind of a deal with the player, so he actually gets something in return for this emotional whirlwind.

My 2 cents anyway, cheers to everybody.

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We would be more than welcome to somehow negotiate onto the bonus of some sort of to support the idea of us influencing his emotional whirlwind.

It's up to user to decide if he wants to talk about it.

As him talking about us crediting the bet as a win doesn't make sense and goes against the decision we made.

Not going too much into details anymore as it doesn't move a needle - let's get this case closed so both of ends can feel free and satisfied.

[EpicChamp]

I doubt that would ever happen, due to the fashion that he gained the balance it would probably be handled similarly to how a bug in a slot game or similar would.

I did not think of this as even a remote possibility until FJ confirmed it themselves. That actually means they made 2 consecutive technical mistakes. First one was to accept the bet with wrong odds, the next one was to offer the customer options that were not options after all (we still do not have a screenshot that confirms it though).
In that case it's not simply a math problem/issue anymore (which I assumed it was) and we enter the domain of the TOC. I kinda feel that FJ has it covered there.

We will be patiently waiting to receive more feedback from the community - as it's the case we pay attention to and would love to be treated rightfully.

As a customer, I'd be pissed at how you handled this if it happened to me (not you personally but FJ in general). I agree with EpicChamp that even if the provider was responsible for the wrong odds, you as a site should take responsibility as well. But I won't dwell on that, that's covered in TOC and I'm sure you are free to cancel bets in the way that you did.

I think all of this would not be as much of a problem if you just cancelled the bet instead of offering these 3 options in the first place. He'd probably accept it and move on because it's not the first time it happened. But we're talking about a decent amount of money, and in this case FJ really did a rollercoaster ride on the guy's emotions.
First he thought he made a good bet. Then it was voided partially and he thought OK, I already have some money because I withdrew my deposit and have some extra on the bet. Then the bet was cancelled although he picked the right outcome. Then he thought well, at least I still get my stake back. Ultimately, after all your technical difficulties and bad communication, the player was left with only his initial deposit.

I understand you are a big business that has a million users and tens of millions of bets. But when something like this happens, when you make continuous mistakes at the expense of the same user, even if you are right according to the TOC and even if it was all just a mistake, maybe some option can be found because like this it really leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Imagine the guy's feelings after losing bit by bit by bit of his winnings, even if they weren't actually winnings according to the TOC. He thought they were and that's important as well.

He was determined to play on that guy, if you voided it earlier he'd probably bet on it elsewhere. He did think he has a bet on FJ, therefore he did not bet somewhere else, therefore he lost even more money because of your miscommunication.

_______________________________________________________________

Since this no longer becomes the discussion about stealing of funds and turns into 'what can we do as a bookie/what is the right thing to do', I'm withdrawing from the discussion because I already said my moral standpoint on situations like these in general. Since I'm sure you can wrap this all and say it's an error, I'm not sure what other options the player has other than possibly seeking justice in court. That would be really difficult though so I'd advise him not to - he'll probably just be wasting time and energy.

Since you asked for community's feedback - I'd rather see that FJ takes a part of the blame for this. It really is your fault, all of it, even if you can justify it with TOC it doesn't make it right. That's something that only you can decide though but I hope to see a fairer outcome than simply saying 'no harm done, let's move on'. Maybe try to make some kind of a deal with the player, so he actually gets something in return for this emotional whirlwind.

My 2 cents anyway, cheers to everybody.

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We would be more than welcome to somehow negotiate onto the bonus of some sort of to support the idea of us influencing his emotional whirlwind.

It's up to user to decide if he wants to talk about it.

As him talking about us crediting the bet as a win doesn't make sense and goes against the decision we made.

Not going too much into details anymore as it doesn't move a needle - let's get this case closed so both of ends can feel free and satisfied.

The only thing that makes sense to do in this case is to credit my bet as a win, and at the bare minimum return my 0.0672 BTC stake since my bet was canceled. At this point, I am not planning on making any more bets on your site unless you return my stake or count my bet as a win; therefore, I am not interested in any bonuses.

You can reverse & change your decision anytime, and I explained to you many times on this thread why it makes perfect sense to count my bet as a win and why I deserve to win this bet fair & square.

You have still not provided me with a valid & clear explanation for canceling my bet and then keeping the stake to yourself. And please don't tell me it was because of a technical mistake because that is not true, a drop from 2.6 to 1.7 is not that significant to be considered a technical error, and especially not when it was intentionally kept live on your website for 2-3 hours without any major changes.

Your decision is completely disrespectful, unfair and wrong on so many levels; and I cannot believe that you would cheat, bend the rules, and take away a lot of money from your users while thinking that this is ok or completely normal to do.

If you go through all the comments on this + other threads, almost everyone in this community also agrees with me that you should not have canceled this bet, and that I fully deserve to win the bet in full (or be returned my stake at the very least).

The general consensus amongst people is that what you did is unfair and ethically & morally wrong, and that if you have any respect towards your consumers and a sense of goodwill, then you should take full responsibility for any "mistake" that was made, and count my bet as a win.

This is also what every other gambling site did in this match for their users (and in every similar situation as this in general), and I would greatly appreciate it if you do the same to prove your reputation and gain trust from me and everyone else. I am asking you very politely and would be very grateful for your cooperation on this.

This is a large amount in the thousands which is very important to me & makes a big difference in my life right now (esp with COVID and everything that's going on), whereas for you it's probably just a fraction of how much you make each day. I really don't understand why you're refusing to reward me for winning this bet, and I look forward to seeing you do the right thing and prove to me and others your goodwill.

[FortuneJack]

We've been actively listening to every single member of the bitcointalk community since the opening of the thread. Unfortunately, we could barely find one person to be supporting your idea by us counting the remaining bet with the casino's funds as a win (the amount stayed as a bet does not belong to the player as it's entirely coming from the point of mistakenly provided odd).

As I've mentioned earlier, FJ would be more than welcome to negotiate on any type of bonus or an offer as a goodwill from our end to respectfully treat the customer. Not to mention, still many of the legendary and notable members haven't yet stated their feedback onto the ongoing case, as their words of wisdom is quite frequently crucial for us to label the case as a closed.

From this point, we're not going into the polemics as it doesn't make any sense. While you emphasizing on purely spamming the thread with not so quite important comments (most of them shilling out personal points of views instead of posting proofs).

It's quite crucial for us to take care of every player gambling at FortuneJack. As everybody knows, the team community of FJ has always been supporting the gambler's state of view instead of blindly rooting for the company's interests. Sadly, none of the arguments nor proofs proves your point and you as a person insisting onto the emotional side of expressing the opinions makes the entire audience not quite interested in replying here. Would be awesome if you could somehow make it kind of official and briefly assisted by data.

We've to as well mention the fact that you've been disrespectfully treating all the members of the bitcointalk community only for the reason of them having a different point of view. Please be civil-spoken to everyone as it's important to clearly move this convo to the end.

We're stepping out from this moment and are not going to go into details until the communication gets its standard look.


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Team FJ

[EpicChamp]

We've been actively listening to every single member of the bitcointalk community since the opening of the thread. Unfortunately, we could barely find one person to be supporting your idea by us counting the remaining bet with the casino's funds as a win (the amount stayed as a bet does not belong to the player as it's entirely coming from the point of mistakenly provided odd).

As I've mentioned earlier, FJ would be more than welcome to negotiate on any type of bonus or an offer as a goodwill from our end to respectfully treat the customer. Not to mention, still many of the legendary and notable members haven't yet stated their feedback onto the ongoing case, as their words of wisdom is quite frequently crucial for us to label the case as a closed.

From this point, we're not going into the polemics as it doesn't make any sense. While you emphasizing on purely spamming the thread with not so quite important comments (most of them shilling out personal points of views instead of posting proofs).

It's quite crucial for us to take care of every player gambling at FortuneJack. As everybody knows, the team community of FJ has always been supporting the gambler's state of view instead of blindly rooting for the company's interests. Sadly, none of the arguments nor proofs proves your point and you as a person insisting onto the emotional side of expressing the opinions makes the entire audience not quite interested in replying here. Would be awesome if you could somehow make it kind of official and briefly assisted by data.

We've to as well mention the fact that you've been disrespectfully treating all the members of the bitcointalk community only for the reason of them having a different point of view. Please be civil-spoken to everyone as it's important to clearly move this convo to the end.

We're stepping out from this moment and are not going to go into details until the communication gets its standard look.


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Team FJ

What kind of "proof" exactly do you want me to provide to support my arguments?

So far you have not denied anything about what I said or claimed, or that my information/evidence was incorrect - so are you saying now that the facts that I wrote in my longer posts is false and didn't happen?

Also, I just went back and analyzed what everyone had to say so far:

1. nutildah (Legendary Member) said: "Honoring the "incorrect" odds would be the noble thing for FortuneJack to do."

2. Royse777 (Legendary Member) said: "I don't like this practice of they can do whatever they want. It's like I make up some reasons or even do not give any reason because there are no reason at all. Because I have the terms and conditions, I can have anyone's money anytime. No, I can not. When you cancel a bet you return the stake and keep the winning (if it was won).

So technically in my opinion, considering the mistake that happened from your provider, considering the communication time, considering the partial cashing out before the email sent, considering the on-going bet after the email sent - you owe the OP 0.067 BTC which was his stake by that time after you informed him. This is what I personally think will be a fair ending."

3. LEVSKI7 (Jr. Member) said: "Brutal deception of fortunejack. They have no right to cancel a bet except in case of a technical error and there is a drop of the odds all the time and people play for cashout in beta and other sites." - and 2.6 to 1.7 drop is def not a technical error (amongst other reasons). Odds start at 3.00 on bwin betathome, ie on other odds providers. and then gradually falls. There is no reason to cancel the bet. everything else is a scam"

He then shared a VERY similar case that was won in a legal battle against another bookie. This is the link, feel free to read the whole case: https://valuebettingblog.com/how-i-beat-888sport-in-court-and-got-paid/

4. BlackFor3st (Hero Member) said: "I think Fortunejack does have all the rights to cancel a bet here" But he isn't 100% sure, and he never mentioned that he also "thinks" that it's ok or right for you to keep the remaining stake as well upon the bet cancelation.

5. Beparanf (Hero Member) said: "This is surely a big mess.  They already admit there fault by giving OP the option for cash out with profit a night before the game. They are the one who gave a complimentary option just to continue the game knowing that there's an error ongoing in the odds. I hope FJ will reconsider your case."

6. Xavofat (Hero Member) said: "Your explanation is clear and strong enough. If the email you quoted here is true then I really don't understand how odd's 1.7 is happened! The validity of that's email is not fair enough by OddsPortal's review. (I) hope you will get back your money"

7. spyrosc200 said: "You should chase the full amount of your bet. Either you deserve paying in full or nothing. Imo this story has 2 thinks to examine:

1) Odds are dropping everyday. This is a fact.

Bookies have absolute no reason to void a bet cause odds drop from 2.30 to 1.70, from 2.30 to 1.30 etc. Check the link below for daily odds drop. Simply there are dozens of such cases every day.

https://www.oddsportal.com/dropping-odds/

None of the games listed above is going to be voided from any fair bookmaker.

2) The big question in your case imo is:

The odds set from Fortjunejack was an obvious error?

If odds were obvious error, then imo they can void this bet. Imagine Bet365 opened Barcelona to beat Leganes at odds 10/1 when whole world had odds at 1/2. Will they honor bets on Barcelona at 10/1? No way.

If Fortunejack odds though were in line with all other books at the time you took the bet, then things are getting complicated. How Forjunejack can claim that they had wrong odds when the whole bookies worldwide had same odds as Forjunejack?

To summarize: - FJ can void this bet only if odds were obvious palp. (which simply isn't true when all other bookies had the same thing happen initially, it wasn't just a mistake on your end)
                      - If they wanted not to take any risk for this game, they should have forced him to fully cashed out his bet prior the game start but no way voiding his bet. Given
                         that odds moved in OP's favor, he would have a descent profit as well which is normal since he spotted good value at 2.60

8. DarkStar_ (Legendary Member) said: "They might have the right to do it, but that doesn't make them not shady if they unjustifiably canceled a bet. There's a reason sportsbooks don't cancel all bets that have had line movement against them.

I also don't know where they got the 1.7 from that they mentioned in the email; OddsPortal seems to agree with your claim."

9. roosbit said: "IMO FJs mistake should not be passed onto its players,they should take the hit and save face...just my 2cents!"

10. scammed-by-nitro asked: "I wonder if other players which bet the other site of the game, betting on 1,4 or whatever odds which then went up to around 3 also got their bets cancelled? Thats the biggest question for me here."

11. cryptofrka (Hero Member) said: "If the bet was accepted, it should be honored + paid out in full - according to the odds that were available at that moment.

Morally - FJ is 100% wrong from the start. As bookies, they have to be responsible for the odds they are offering. His bet should be paid out in full - all the bets that are accepted on all the betting platforms should. For me this is simply not acceptable. It is a business, OP did lose part of his effective balance.

As a community we should expect the industry's leaders (such as FJ) to keep high standards of transparency, fairness and even morality. I do not agree with it at all, I think it is not appropriate behavior and I think it is borderline a criminal act. It is also an industry standard and [we] should be fighting it with all legal means available because it is the right thing to do. Companies with extreme revenues and huge profits should be held accountable for their mistakes. They should not be able to have a magic wand that erases it.

What FJ should not be able to do in any case whatsoever is to keep his stake for themselves. That is a criminal act for sure and it can be branded as theft, pure and simple.

If what [OP} is saying [is true], it means the following:
- FJ initially did the right thing, accepting cashout with them losing money
- when he cashed out 50%, they accepted his 50% to remain as a valid bet

At that point, we must observe it as 2 separate bets:
- bet A (50% of the amount) was cashed out early for profit
- bet B (50% of the amount) is a separate bet - that can be voided according to TOC but must be refunded if voided, no matter what happened earlier with bet A.

As a bare minimum, the stake must be returned to the player."

Also, he mentioned: "[FortuneJack} made 2 consecutive technical mistakes. First one was to accept the bet with wrong odds, the next one was to offer the customer options that were not options after all. I agree with EpicChamp that even if the provider was responsible for the wrong odds, you as a site should take responsibility as well."

12. slaman29 (Sr. Member) said: "Never had a bet cancelled from odds changes"

13. shield132 (Hero Member) said: "If bet was made hours earlier before the match and if the bet was canceled immediately, then yeah, seems there is nothing wrong with FJ but otherwise I wouldn't like that. (it WASN'T canceled immediately, it was canceled 12-13hours after I placed the bet)

14. Haunebu (Hero Member) said: "I agree that it is unethical and FJ have faced several issues like this in recent times"

15. serjent05 (Legendary Member) said: "EpicChamp indeed has some BTC to refund on that canceled bet, I don't know why FJ can't see this stuff. If the record of FJ tallies EpicChamp's story, he then will have no problem claiming those BTC for refunds."

He also confirmed this by saying that "If what you are saying is true then I agree that you deserve to claim your remaining stake"

16. RokokGudangGaram (Full Member) said: "This is not a proper cancellation especially if your bet has been accepted already, they can cancel the game if in case you haven't bet yet or the game hasn't started yet. It is not a proper way to handle your winnings especially if you successfully make your bet."

17. Even Hhampuz (Legendary Member) who is one of the only people who for the most part seems to agree with you, said this: "It's different when they cancel the bet quickly and long before the game is ever played. " - which did not happen because it was NOT canceled quickly and long before the match started. It was super late and at the time I wasn't even aware of it, that's how late it was.

**Look at ALL THESE COMMENTS FortuneJack**

15-17 Community Members all agree with me on several things:

1. What you did is morally & ethically wrong.
2. The bet should not have been canceled for many reasons they all listed themselves (on top of my own in my longer posts). Therefore, I deserve to win my bet in full if this bet wasn't canceled because I chose the right player to win.
3. Even if you are "officially" allowed to cancel this bet according to your TOC - you need to return my 0.0672 BTC stake back.

I went through each person who replied 1 by 1 and put down what all of them had to say about this situation. It is a VAST majority of people who agree with me and are against your deceiving behavior & way of running your site.

Everyone agrees that you should honor this bet, take full responsibility, and reward my winning amount (or at the very least return my stake back).

And once again, let me know what kind of "proof" do you want me to share or see here exactly.

Also, are you saying that anything about what I said is wrong or incorrect? if so - what exactly did I say (as a fact/evidence) about what happened is wrong or incorrect that you disagree with?

[DarkStar_]

8. DarkStar_ (Legendary Member) said: "They might have the right to do it, but that doesn't make them not shady if they unjustifiably cancelled a bet. There's a reason sportsbooks don't cancel all bets that have had line movement against them.

I also don't know where they got the 1.7 from that they mentioned in the email; OddsPortal seems to agree with your claim."

Don't quote me out of context please. The email from SteadyLogic with the timeframes seems pretty convincing that it was a legitimate odds error. 2.6 to 1.3 in one shot is a pretty reasonable palp, unless you have proof that there was some external event that caused the odds drop (for example, news that Altamirano might be injured/not feeling well).

(disclaimer: I haven't had a very detailed look into this)

[nutildah]

Also, I just went back and analyzed what everyone had to say so far:

1. nutildah (Legendary Member) said: "Honoring the "incorrect" odds would be the noble thing for FortuneJack to do."

You took my words out of context. What I said was this:

On one hand, honoring the "incorrect" odds would be the noble thing for FortuneJack to do.

On the other hand, they're going to point to potentially multiple clauses in the sportsbook terms and conditions that says they reserve the right to do exactly that.

So in my opinion, it's probably best just to move on. Casinos pointing to their terms and conditions as an excuse to not have to pay somebody out is the norm... probably won't be bucked in that regard.

You ignored the other 2/3 of the point that I was making, which is they don't have to pay out your bet so they're not going to and it's best to move on. I'm not trying to defend FJ, just letting you know they probably won't change their minds. If I were you I just wouldn't play there anymore.

[EpicChamp]

8. DarkStar_ (Legendary Member) said: "They might have the right to do it, but that doesn't make them not shady if they unjustifiably cancelled a bet. There's a reason sportsbooks don't cancel all bets that have had line movement against them.

I also don't know where they got the 1.7 from that they mentioned in the email; OddsPortal seems to agree with your claim."

Don't quote me out of context please. The email from SteadyLogic with the timeframes seems pretty convincing that it was a legitimate odds error. 2.6 to 1.3 in one shot is a pretty reasonable palp, unless you have proof that there was some external event that caused the odds drop (for example, news that Altamirano might be injured/not feeling well).

(disclaimer: I haven't had a very detailed look into this)

According to their email, they claimed that they canceled the bet because odds dropped from 2.6 to 1.7 - that is not that uncommon and far from a reasonable "palp", esp when all other bookies had very similar swings of odds for this match on that day. It wasn't just FortuneJack, yet all of them counted the bet as a win for those who bet on De Jong regardless of what his odds were when they placed the bet.

[DarkStar_]

8. DarkStar_ (Legendary Member) said: "They might have the right to do it, but that doesn't make them not shady if they unjustifiably cancelled a bet. There's a reason sportsbooks don't cancel all bets that have had line movement against them.

I also don't know where they got the 1.7 from that they mentioned in the email; OddsPortal seems to agree with your claim."

Don't quote me out of context please. The email from SteadyLogic with the timeframes seems pretty convincing that it was a legitimate odds error. 2.6 to 1.3 in one shot is a pretty reasonable palp, unless you have proof that there was some external event that caused the odds drop (for example, news that Altamirano might be injured/not feeling well).

(disclaimer: I haven't had a very detailed look into this)

According to their email, they claimed that they canceled the bet because odds dropped from 2.6 to 1.7 - that is not that uncommon and far from a reasonable "palp", esp when all other bookies had very similar swings of odds for this match on that day. It wasn't just FortuneJack.

Yes, but we had both agreed that odds never hit 1.7 and that the email was inaccurate.

[EpicChamp]

Also, I just went back and analyzed what everyone had to say so far:

1. nutildah (Legendary Member) said: "Honoring the "incorrect" odds would be the noble thing for FortuneJack to do."

You took my words out of context. What I said was this:

On one hand, honoring the "incorrect" odds would be the noble thing for FortuneJack to do.

On the other hand, they're going to point to potentially multiple clauses in the sportsbook terms and conditions that says they reserve the right to do exactly that.

So in my opinion, it's probably best just to move on. Casinos pointing to their terms and conditions as an excuse to not have to pay somebody out is the norm... probably won't be bucked in that regard.

You ignored the other 2/3 of the point that I was making, which is they don't have to pay out your bet so they're not going to and it's best to move on. I'm not trying to defend FJ, just letting you know they probably won't change their minds. If I were you I just wouldn't play there anymore.

The other 2/3 points don't really matter as much, my point is that TOC aside - you said that you believe that they should be honor this bet because it is the right thing to do. Therefore, it should be considered a win for me (just like it would have been a loss had the player I bet on would have lost).

Do you still agree with that?

[EpicChamp]

8. DarkStar_ (Legendary Member) said: "They might have the right to do it, but that doesn't make them not shady if they unjustifiably cancelled a bet. There's a reason sportsbooks don't cancel all bets that have had line movement against them.

I also don't know where they got the 1.7 from that they mentioned in the email; OddsPortal seems to agree with your claim."

Don't quote me out of context please. The email from SteadyLogic with the timeframes seems pretty convincing that it was a legitimate odds error. 2.6 to 1.3 in one shot is a pretty reasonable palp, unless you have proof that there was some external event that caused the odds drop (for example, news that Altamirano might be injured/not feeling well).

(disclaimer: I haven't had a very detailed look into this)

According to their email, they claimed that they canceled the bet because odds dropped from 2.6 to 1.7 - that is not that uncommon and far from a reasonable "palp", esp when all other bookies had very similar swings of odds for this match on that day. It wasn't just FortuneJack.

Yes, but we had both agreed that odds never hit 1.7 and that the email was inaccurate.

I am not the one to say or decide if this is right or wrong - I am simply going based on facts & the evidence/reasoning I was given by them.

The email was sent to me 1-2 hours before the start of the match, so maybe at that point the odds changed again and he became 1.7. I don't know and it doesn't matter why they claim it was 1.7; my point is that they officially used this as their reason for canceling my bet (aka change of odds), and now are trying to claim that it was a palpable error instead, which it clearly wasn't for many reasons with this being 1 of them.

[DarkStar_]

The other 2/3 points don't really matter as much, my point is that TOC aside - you said that you believe that they should be honor this bet because it is the right thing to do. Therefore, it should be considered a win for me (just like it would have been a loss had the player I bet on would have lost).

According to you, it was voided prior to the game starting so there was never a chance that it was a loss.

I am not the one to say or decide if this is right or wrong - I am simply going based on facts & the evidence/reasoning I was given by them.

The email was sent to me 1-2 hours before the start of the match, so maybe at that point the odds changed again and he became 1.7. I don't know and it doesn't matter why they claim it was 1.7; my point is that they officially used this as their reason for canceling my bet (aka change of odds), and now are trying to claim that it was a palpable error instead, which it clearly wasn't for many reasons with this being 1 of them.

To quote yourself: (bold emphasis mine)

First off, besides the terrible grammar, this is a complete lie because De Jong was never given 1.7 odds of winning this match on ANY betting site the entire time. After his odds dropped from over 2.6 he was ALWAYS universally below 1.3 across all other sites too. So it seems as though they just randomly came up with 1.7 out of the blue because that was never the case.

Why the switch from 100% certainty to uncertainty?

[EpicChamp]

The other 2/3 points don't really matter as much, my point is that TOC aside - you said that you believe that they should be honor this bet because it is the right thing to do. Therefore, it should be considered a win for me (just like it would have been a loss had the player I bet on would have lost).

According to you, it was voided prior to the game starting so there was never a chance that it was a loss.

I am not the one to say or decide if this is right or wrong - I am simply going based on facts & the evidence/reasoning I was given by them.

The email was sent to me 1-2 hours before the start of the match, so maybe at that point the odds changed again and he became 1.7. I don't know and it doesn't matter why they claim it was 1.7; my point is that they officially used this as their reason for canceling my bet (aka change of odds), and now are trying to claim that it was a palpable error instead, which it clearly wasn't for many reasons with this being 1 of them.

To quote yourself: (bold emphasis mine)

First off, besides the terrible grammar, this is a complete lie because De Jong was never given 1.7 odds of winning this match on ANY betting site the entire time. After his odds dropped from over 2.6 he was ALWAYS universally below 1.3 across all other sites too. So it seems as though they just randomly came up with 1.7 out of the blue because that was never the case.

Why the switch from 100% certainty to uncertainty?

I was stating my opinion on what I think about the reasoning of the email they wrote to me.

I am still confused why they think he was given at 1.7 at any point, but I was not checking these odds every 5mins to know exactly where was at every given time/minute.

There is always a small chance that much like he randomly dropped from 2.6 to 1.3 initially, that he also shot up from 1.3 to 1.7 in an instant too - and maybe that happened right as they wrote this email 2 hours before the match, I wouldn't know (esp since I was sleeping during this time). It's simply impossible for me to know the exact odds of the player I bet on between the time I partially cashed out and when the match was about to start.

Either way, even if it was below 1.7 - that's beyond the point. Nowhere in the email did they claim they canceled the bet due to a "technical" or "palpable" error, and their only reasoning for canceling this bet was a change of odds - yet now they claim something different? Interesting isn't it?

My point is - if they truly believed & knew it was such an obvious palpable error or "accident", then that should have been the first thing they should have written to me in the email & claimed it exactly as such, which they haven't. This tells me it was not a palpable error, and at this point I do not believe them claiming that it was, and I highly question any other reason they may provide because they did not mention anything other than a reasonable change of odds (2.6 to 1.7) in their email. And this is a fact.

It is also very easy to come up with & find other excuses after the fact - however, the reason must be stated at the time of, not a day, a week, or few weeks/months later. And at the time their only reasoning for canceling my bet was a drop of odds from 2.6 to 1.7.

(And if I ever accidentally put up odds at 3.5 when I intended to do it as 1.35 as an example, this is exactly what I would have written:

"Hello EpicChamp, we are really sorry to inform you but there was a technical error in our system where player X was accidentally displayed at 3.5 when he was intended to be at 1.35, therefore we decided to cancel your bet AND return your stake back - hope you understand" or something along those lines.

Yet they did not write anything similar to this, did not return my stake back, and I really don't wanna hear their palpable error excuse anymore. Even if it was, I gave countless reasons on here why it still wouldn't make sense for them to cancel my bet because of that, and it is not my fault or responsibility - therefore, my bet should be rewarded as a win and I should not be losing thousands of dollars because of their mistake)

[FortuneJack]

02:34:26 24/11/2020 - markets open with the odds of 3,0 - 1,34 (technically wrong odds).

05:18:35 24/11/2020 - betradar identifies the issue and closes the markets till the morning.

09:37:20 24/11/2020 - market reopens with the correct odds of 1,16 - 4,6.

EpicChamp used the cashout option after an hour of the opening markets - 24/11/20 10:37:23

So basically betradar cancelled and annulled all the bets within the time frame from 02:34:26 24/11/2020 all over to 5:18:35 24/11/2020.

The pattern is shown above clearly states that it wasn't natural odd drop.

It was a correction happening in few hours after labelling it as an error.

By looking at the above-mentioned time frames, we can see that the user was intentionally trying to trick the cashout option system, as it was only used after the correction. In case him using it before the correction, the system would send an obvious site error as a message.

OP knew that there was a wrong odd on FJ.

Placed the bet on time.

Waited for the correction till making the partial cashout to be at the safe side. He 100% knew that we would be cancelling it so took the initial deposit (first stake) back to his funds. No win, no lose, I guess.

By following the pattern, we can see him purposely utilizing the bug as an advantage against other members, who were betting ONLY after the correction of the odds.

It's crucial for us as well to have the fair play environment for everyone gambling here at FJ.

[EpicChamp]

EpicChamp used the cashout option after an hour of the opening markets - 24/11/20 10:37:23

Dang, you almost had it right FortuneJack!

Except noooooooo, I did NOT perform my cashout after 1 hour of opening the market  at "10:37:23" - if I understand your timezone correctly.

I performed my partial cashout right around that 8:18 to 9ish timeframe, about 6-7 hours after the lines first went live (at ~3.0 odds) and about 1-2 hours after I initially placed my bet. I don't know what timezone you're using, but for me I can only speak in EST.

Odds went live around 6:30pm EST and he was posted around 3.0 odds universally across all betting sites.

1 hour later around 7:30pm EST he was around 2.8 odds on FJ.

30 mins after that around 8:00pm EST he was at 2.6 odds on FJ, and that's when I placed my 0.14 BTC bet exactly around 7:58pm EST on De Jong to win.

Then about 1 hour later after 8:45pm EST, the line became frozen for at least 30 mins.

Afterward, around 9:20pm EST De Jong for some reason dropped from 2.6 to 1.2-1.3. Why did this happen I have no idea and once again it is not up to me to decide.

Then 3-4 hours later, between 12-1am (right before I was about to go to sleep) - I noticed that you voluntarily gave me an option to cash out either in full for 0.268 BTC or partially for whatever % I wanted while keeping the remaining amount open at 2.6 odds much like my original bet. So because I was given this option by you, and to minimize my risk, I decided to only cash out ~50% of my bet. But I did not expect this to happen at all and I was willing to go to sleep knowing I took a 100% risk of potentially losing this bet without getting anything back if my player loses, and I was willing to accept this risk even if odds didn't change and you did not offer my the cashout option.

Then the match started around 10am EST on the 24th, which is 9-10 hours after I performed my 50% partial cashout.

Then at 8:08am EST you sent me a bet cancelation email, which was sent 12 hours after I initially placed my bet, and ~7-8 hours after I performed my initial cashout. And only 2 hours before the match was about to start.

So if you KNEW for a fact that this was a glitch or error in the system, then why did you wait 7-12 hours before canceling my bet instead of doing it right away, as well as NOT giving me the option to do a full/partial cashout?

This is no different than when a user makes a bet on a certain player to win a match at say 2.5 odds. And then 2 hours later that player goes from 2.5 to 5.0, and now you're in a crappy dilemma. Had you waited an extra 2 hours, you would have gotten him at better odds. OR you simply changed your mind and decided it wasn't worth it anymore and wanted to cancel this bet. Or maybe you made a complete accident and put in the wrong amount.

Well, guess what? In this case, depending on the bookie, some may not allow you to cash out this bet at all and you would be forced to watch it play out without being to cash anything out.

And then there those who would allow you to cash something out, will allow you to do it at a 30-50% instant loss. So most of the time, it wouldn't make sense to do it as the bettor cuz you'd be losing a lot of money right away because either the odds changed or you simply made a "mistake" and changed your mind. But regardless of the reason you want to cancel after placing the bet, you will not be able to cash out your full amount without losing a large portion of it.

So much like I as a user may still be able to cash out but suffer a huge loss, similarly FJ wanted to "cash out" to avoid this bet being played out in full because they feared they were going to los the bet since the odds drastically changed. So they gave me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted at a guaranteed loss, that loss would still be much lower than if had I not cashed out anything at all.

So in simple terms:

I placed a 0.14 BTC bet at 2.6 odds = 0.364 BTC if I win
Then if I wanted to cash out in full after the odds changed it would have been = 0.268 BTC.

This means that if I had cashed out in full, FortuneJack would have cut their losses & saved ~0.1 BTC assuming the player I bet on would have won, which he did.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense why they would give me this option, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It benefits them just as much as it benefits me if I take them up on it, making it a win-win situation. I lose out on winning an extra 0.1 BTC, and they save+cut their losses by 0.1 BTC.

It's also very similar to a case where you bet on an underdog player to win at 3.0, and then during the live match he was playing amazing and won the first set and is now up a break in the 2nd, in a very strong winning position. At this point, his odds of winning are no longer 3.0 but rather 1.3, and your 1k bet would turn into 3k total if he ends up winning the match. But at this time the bookie gives you the option to cash out in full for 2.2-2.4k (or less if you cash out partially), knowing that they are likely to lose this bet, so at least they want to cut their losses by $600-800.

At this point, you are guaranteed to win something if you choose to cash out in full or partially if that is an option; OR if you really believe that the player you bet on will close it out and win the match then you can wait an extra 30mins and by then it "should" be over. But in that case you run the risk of the favorite player making a comeback as it happens quite a lot.

So those who don't want to take too much risk will be happy to cash out in full for 2-2.5x their initial bet instead of potentially the full 3k, and are completely ok about missing out on a 3.0 win if they can be guaranteed a nice win at lower odds when given the chance at a 2-2.5x return.

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME IDEA!

You probably realized that it was likely that you were going to lose this bet after odds changed, and offered me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted to minimize your losses (as if you were about to lose a live match as I explained above); and I was happy to partially cash out and keep everything else in play which was still very risky because it was a pretty even match and anything could have happened on that day. This way, instead of you potentially losing 0.364 BTC, you would only end up losing ~0.314 BTC if my player wins - saving yourself a 0.05 BTC loss. This is completely fair and a win-win situation for both of us.

And no, I did not know or think the odds were wrong. How am I supposed to know this? For me, it was a fairly even match and there were no clear favorites. And even if I did think De Jong was the favorite - my opinion doesn't & shouldn't matter. The only opinion that matters is that of bookies who post the odds on their site and make them official.

You can post a match where 1 player was given 5.0 odds of winning thinking "yeah they're probably not gonna win", and I could be thinking the exact opposite & believing they have a good chance of winning + placing the bet. And then what do you know? If my player ends up winning then I was right while 90% of people thought otherwise. So once again, what I think doesn't matter and is why bets are made to see who's right & who's wrong.

In this case, I just happened to get in at good odds that made sense to me at the time, and I was fortunate that the player I bet on ended up winning the match. But the 2nd set was very competitive and his opponent could have also won it just as much, and if they played a 3rd set it could have gone either way, which proves there was no clear favorite in this match.

Also, here you wrote that he dropped to 1.16 - but in the email you sent me you wrote that you decided to cancel the bet because he dropped from 2.6 to 1.7. So why are you now mixing things up and changing the numbers?

I don't know where you got 1.16 from because even I didn't see him being given such low odds at the time. Also, 1.7 instead of 1.16 makes a lot more sense to me as well because the match was very even and I believe there was no clear favorite here.

So please explain to me & everyone here where or how did you get 1.7 from? And please stick to only this number because that was your only reasoning for canceling my bet according to your email.

Aside from that, I hope everything else I wrote earlier makes sense to you & shows why I believe I deserve to win my remaining amount in full.

[FortuneJack]

EpicChamp used the cashout option after an hour of the opening markets - 24/11/20 10:37:23

Dang, you almost had it right FortuneJack!

Except noooooooo, I did NOT perform my cashout after 1 hour of opening the market  at "10:37:23" - if I understand your timezone correctly.

I performed my partial cashout right around that 8:18 to 9ish timeframe, about 6-7 hours after the lines first went live (at ~3.0 odds) and about 1-2 hours after I initially placed my bet. I don't know what timezone you're using, but for me I can only speak in EST.

Odds went live around 6:30pm EST and he was posted around 3.0 odds universally across all betting sites.

1 hour later around 7:30pm EST he was around 2.8 odds on FJ.

30 mins after that around 8:00pm EST he was at 2.6 odds on FJ, and that's when I placed my 0.14 BTC bet exactly around 7:58pm EST on De Jong to win.

Then about 1 hour later after 8:45pm EST, the line became frozen for at least 30 mins.

Afterward, around 9:20pm EST De Jong for some reason dropped from 2.6 to 1.2-1.3. Why did this happen I have no idea and once again it is not up to me to decide.

Then 3-4 hours later, between 12-1am (right before I was about to go to sleep) - I noticed that you voluntarily gave me an option to cash out either in full for 0.268 BTC or partially for whatever % I wanted while keeping the remaining amount open at 2.6 odds much like my original bet. So because I was given this option by you, and to minimize my risk, I decided to only cash out ~50% of my bet. But I did not expect this to happen at all and I was willing to go to sleep knowing I took a 100% risk of potentially losing this bet without getting anything back if my player loses, and I was willing to accept this risk even if odds didn't change and you did not offer my the cashout option.

Then the match started around 10am EST on the 24th, which is 9-10 hours after I performed my 50% partial cashout.

Then at 8:08am EST you sent me a bet cancelation email, which was sent 12 hours after I initially placed my bet, and ~7-8 hours after I performed my initial cashout. And only 2 hours before the match was about to start.

So if you KNEW for a fact that this was a glitch or error in the system, then why did you wait 7-12 hours before canceling my bet instead of doing it right away, as well as NOT giving me the option to do a full/partial cashout?

This is no different than when a user makes a bet on a certain player to win a match at say 2.5 odds. And then 2 hours later that player goes from 2.5 to 5.0, and now you're in a crappy dilemma. Had you waited an extra 2 hours, you would have gotten him at better odds. OR you simply changed your mind and decided it wasn't worth it anymore and wanted to cancel this bet. Or maybe you made a complete accident and put in the wrong amount.

Well, guess what? In this case, depending on the bookie, some may not allow you to cash out this bet at all and you would be forced to watch it play out without being to cash anything out.

And then there those who would allow you to cash something out, will allow you to do it at a 30-50% instant loss. So most of the time, it wouldn't make sense to do it as the bettor cuz you'd be losing a lot of money right away because either the odds changed or you simply made a "mistake" and changed your mind. But regardless of the reason you want to cancel after placing the bet, you will not be able to cash out your full amount without losing a large portion of it.

So much like I as a user may still be able to cash out but suffer a huge loss, similarly FJ wanted to "cash out" to avoid this bet being played out in full because they feared they were going to los the bet since the odds drastically changed. So they gave me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted at a guaranteed loss, that loss would still be much lower than if had I not cashed out anything at all.

So in simple terms:

I placed a 0.14 BTC bet at 2.6 odds = 0.364 BTC if I win
Then if I wanted to cash out in full after the odds changed it would have been = 0.268 BTC.

This means that if I had cashed out in full, FortuneJack would have cut their losses & saved ~0.1 BTC assuming the player I bet on would have won, which he did.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense why they would give me this option, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It benefits them just as much as it benefits me if I take them up on it, making it a win-win situation. I lose out on winning an extra 0.1 BTC, and they save+cut their losses by 0.1 BTC.

It's also very similar to a case where you bet on an underdog player to win at 3.0, and then during the live match he was playing amazing and won the first set and is now up a break in the 2nd, in a very strong winning position. At this point, his odds of winning are no longer 3.0 but rather 1.3, and your 1k bet would turn into 3k total if he ends up winning the match. But at this time the bookie gives you the option to cash out in full for 2.2-2.4k (or less if you cash out partially), knowing that they are likely to lose this bet, so at least they want to cut their losses by $600-800.

At this point, you are guaranteed to win something if you choose to cash out in full or partially if that is an option; OR if you really believe that the player you bet on will close it out and win the match then you can wait an extra 30mins and by then it "should" be over. But in that case you run the risk of the favorite player making a comeback as it happens quite a lot.

So those who don't want to take too much risk will be happy to cash out in full for 2-2.5x their initial bet instead of potentially the full 3k, and are completely ok about missing out on a 3.0 win if they can be guaranteed a nice win at lower odds when given the chance at a 2-2.5x return.

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME IDEA!

You probably realized that it was likely that you were going to lose this bet after odds changed, and offered me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted to minimize your losses (as if you were about to lose a live match as I explained above); and I was happy to partially cash out and keep everything else in play which was still very risky because it was a pretty even match and anything could have happened on that day. This way, instead of you potentially losing 0.364 BTC, you would only end up losing ~0.314 BTC if my player wins - saving yourself a 0.05 BTC loss. This is completely fair and a win-win situation for both of us.

And no, I did not know or think the odds were wrong. How am I supposed to know this? For me, it was a fairly even match and there were no clear favorites. And even if I did think De Jong was the favorite - my opinion doesn't & shouldn't matter. The only opinion that matters is that of bookies who post the odds on their site and make them official.

You can post a match where 1 player was given 5.0 odds of winning thinking "yeah they're probably not gonna win", and I could be thinking the exact opposite & believing they have a good chance of winning + placing the bet. And then what do you know? If my player ends up winning then I was right while 90% of people thought otherwise. So once again, what I think doesn't matter and is why bets are made to see who's right & who's wrong.

In this case, I just happened to get in at good odds that made sense to me at the time, and I was fortunate that the player I bet on ended up winning the match. But the 2nd set was very competitive and his opponent could have also won it just as much, and if they played a 3rd set it could have gone either way, which proves there was no clear favorite in this match.

Also, here you wrote that he dropped to 1.16 - but in the email you sent me you wrote that you decided to cancel the bet because he dropped from 2.6 to 1.7. So why are you now mixing things up and changing the numbers?

I don't know where you got 1.16 from because even I didn't see him being given such low odds at the time. Also, 1.7 instead of 1.16 makes a lot more sense to me as well because the match was very even and I believe there was no clear favorite here.

So please explain to me & everyone here where or how did you get 1.7 from? And please stick to only this number because that was your only reasoning for canceling my bet according to your email.

Aside from that, I hope everything else I wrote earlier makes sense to you & shows why I believe I deserve to win my remaining amount in full.

-
You clearly don't understand how casinos/sportsbooks operate in general.

We've as a FortuneJack have neither technical nor legal right to manually update/change/disable odds on any game provided.

In this case, betradar is the company doing the updates on odds, any of the change is coming from their back-end, not us.

So you stating the fact that we were updating the odds from time to time, as well as coming up with the odd of 1.7 or a 1.16 doesn't make sense and is wrong.

As you're wrongfully trying to make us credit a bet as a win, may I kindly ask you what made you change the idea of doing it so?

Here we're uploading the screenshot of the email, where you're asking for the remaining stake, not for the winning amount:



Need to as well mention the fact that you're changing the numbers you use with the comments here for the community. It only serves the idea of misleading other people and not emphasizing the truth. I do recommend you going back to the comments and see what you've been writing, as the odds updates, cashout times, and withdrawal periods were different from the facts that you've been providing.

Last but not least, at the time you requested the partial cashout, we had no signal from betradar about the mistakenly provided odds.

As soon as, we had our hands on the data - we immediately took an action.

Kindly asking the community, to read the email he sent to the company representative - this entire case can be considered closed by just reading the facts, numbers, proofs, and wishes by the user stating himself. No need to argue here anymore, if the community asks for more screenshots like this, most of them coming via email and chat, we would be more than welcome to reveal them. Unfortunately, many of those are quite sensitive and cannot be shared publicly - but if that's the case we can.

[EpicChamp]

EpicChamp used the cashout option after an hour of the opening markets - 24/11/20 10:37:23

Dang, you almost had it right FortuneJack!

Except noooooooo, I did NOT perform my cashout after 1 hour of opening the market  at "10:37:23" - if I understand your timezone correctly.

I performed my partial cashout right around that 8:18 to 9ish tirmeframe, about 6-7 hours after the lines first went live (at ~3.0 odds) and about 1-2 hours after I initially placed my bet. I don't know what timezone you're using, but for me I can only speak in EST.

Odds went live around 6:30pm EST and he was posted around 3.0 odds universally across all betting sites.

1 hour later around 7:30pm EST he was around 2.8 odds on FJ.

30 mins after that around 8:00pm EST he was at 2.6 odds on FJ, and that's when I placed my 0.14 BTC bet exactly around 7:58pm EST on De Jong to win.

Then about 1 hour later after 8:45pm EST, the line became frozen for at least 30 mins.

Afterward, around 9:20pm EST De Jong for some reason dropped from 2.6 to 1.2-1.3. Why did this happen I have no idea and once again it is not up to me to decide.

Then 3-4 hours later, between 12-1am (right before I was about to go to sleep) - I noticed that you voluntarily gave me an option to cash out either in full for 0.268 BTC or partially for whatever % I wanted while keeping the remaining amount open at 2.6 odds much like my original bet. So because I was given this option by you, and to minimize my risk, I decided to only cash out ~50% of my bet. But I did not expect this to happen at all and I was willing to go to sleep knowing I took a 100% risk of potentially losing this bet without getting anything back if my player loses, and I was willing to accept this risk even if odds didn't change and you did not offer my the cashout option.

Then the match started around 10am EST on the 24th, which is 9-10 hours after I performed my 50% partial cashout.

Then at 8:08am EST you sent me a bet cancelation email, which was sent 12 hours after I initially placed my bet, and ~7-8 hours after I performed my initial cashout. And only 2 hours before the match was about to start.

So if you KNEW for a fact that this was a glitch or error in the system, then why did you wait 7-12 hours before canceling my bet instead of doing it right away, as well as NOT giving me the option to do a full/partial cashout?

This is no different than when a user makes a bet on a certain player to win a match at say 2.5 odds. And then 2 hours later that player goes from 2.5 to 5.0, and now you're in a crappy dilemma. Had you waited an extra 2 hours, you would have gotten him at better odds. OR you simply changed your mind and decided it wasn't worth it anymore and wanted to cancel this bet. Or maybe you made a complete accident and put in the wrong amount.

Well, guess what? In this case, depending on the bookie, some may not allow you to cash out this bet at all and you would be forced to watch it play out without being to cash anything out.

And then there those who would allow you to cash something out, will allow you to do it at a 30-50% instant loss. So most of the time, it wouldn't make sense to do it as the bettor cuz you'd be losing a lot of money right away because either the odds changed or you simply made a "mistake" and changed your mind. But regardless of the reason you want to cancel after placing the bet, you will not be able to cash out your full amount without losing a large portion of it.

So much like I as a user may still be able to cash out but suffer a huge loss, similarly FJ wanted to "cash out" to avoid this bet being played out in full because they feared they were going to los the bet since the odds drastically changed. So they gave me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted at a guaranteed loss, that loss would still be much lower than if had I not cashed out anything at all.

So in simple terms:

I placed a 0.14 BTC bet at 2.6 odds = 0.364 BTC if I win
Then if I wanted to cash out in full after the odds changed it would have been = 0.268 BTC.

This means that if I had cashed out in full, FortuneJack would have cut their losses & saved ~0.1 BTC assuming the player I bet on would have won, which he did.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense why they would give me this option, and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It benefits them just as much as it benefits me if I take them up on it, making it a win-win situation. I lose out on winning an extra 0.1 BTC, and they save+cut their losses by 0.1 BTC.

It's also very similar to a case where you bet on an underdog player to win at 3.0, and then during the live match he was playing amazing and won the first set and is now up a break in the 2nd, in a very strong winning position. At this point, his odds of winning are no longer 3.0 but rather 1.3, and your 1k bet would turn into 3k total if he ends up winning the match. But at this time the bookie gives you the option to cash out in full for 2.2-2.4k (or less if you cash out partially), knowing that they are likely to lose this bet, so at least they want to cut their losses by $600-800.

At this point, you are guaranteed to win something if you choose to cash out in full or partially if that is an option; OR if you really believe that the player you bet on will close it out and win the match then you can wait an extra 30mins and by then it "should" be over. But in that case you run the risk of the favorite player making a comeback as it happens quite a lot.

So those who don't want to take too much risk will be happy to cash out in full for 2-2.5x their initial bet instead of potentially the full 3k, and are completely ok about missing out on a 3.0 win if they can be guaranteed a nice win at lower odds when given the chance at a 2-2.5x return.

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME IDEA!

You probably realized that it was likely that you were going to lose this bet after odds changed, and offered me the option to cash out whatever % I wanted to minimize your losses (as if you were about to lose a live match as I explained above); and I was happy to partially cash out and keep everything else in play which was still very risky because it was a pretty even match and anything could have happened on that day. This way, instead of you potentially losing 0.364 BTC, you would only end up losing ~0.314 BTC if my player wins - saving yourself a 0.05 BTC loss. This is completely fair and a win-win situation for both of us.

And no, I did not know or think the odds were wrong. How am I supposed to know this? For me, it was a fairly even match and there were no clear favorites. And even if I did think De Jong was the favorite - my opinion doesn't & shouldn't matter. The only opinion that matters is that of bookies who post the odds on their site and make them official.

You can post a match where 1 player was given 5.0 odds of winning thinking "yeah they're probably not gonna win", and I could be thinking the exact opposite & believing they have a good chance of winning + placing the bet. And then what do you know? If my player ends up winning then I was right while 90% of people thought otherwise. So once again, what I think doesn't matter and is why bets are made to see who's right & who's wrong.

In this case, I just happened to get in at good odds that made sense to me at the time, and I was fortunate that the player I bet on ended up winning the match. But the 2nd set was very competitive and his opponent could have also won it just as much, and if they played a 3rd set it could have gone either way, which proves there was no clear favorite in this match.

Also, here you wrote that he dropped to 1.16 - but in the email you sent me you wrote that you decided to cancel the bet because he dropped from 2.6 to 1.7. So why are you now mixing things up and changing the numbers?

I don't know where you got 1.16 from because even I didn't see him being given such low odds at the time. Also, 1.7 instead of 1.16 makes a lot more sense to me as well because the match was very even and I believe there was no clear favorite here.

So please explain to me & everyone here where or how did you get 1.7 from? And please stick to only this number because that was your only reasoning for canceling my bet according to your email.

Aside from that, I hope everything else I wrote earlier makes sense to you & shows why I believe I deserve to win my remaining amount in full.

-
You clearly don't understand how casinos/sportsbooks operate in general.

We've as a FortuneJack have neither technical nor legal right to manually update/change/disable odds on any game provided.

In this case, betradar is the company doing the updates on odds, any of the change is coming from their back-end, not us.

So you stating the fact that we were updating the odds from time to time, as well as coming up with the odd of 1.7 or a 1.16 doesn't make sense and is wrong.

As you're wrongfully trying to make us credit a bet as a win, may I kindly ask you what made you change the idea of doing it so?

Here we're uploading the screenshot of the email, where you're asking for the remaining stake, not for the winning amount:

Need to as well mention the fact that you're changing the numbers you use with the comments here for the community. It only serves the idea of misleading other people and not emphasizing the truth. I do recommend you going back to the comments and see what you've been writing, as the odds updates, cashout times, and withdrawal periods were different from the facts that you've been providing.

Last but not least, at the time you requested the partial cashout, we had no signal from betradar about the mistakenly provided odds.

As soon as, we had our hands on the data - we immediately took an action.

Kindly asking the community, to read the email he sent to the company representative - this entire case can be considered closed by just reading the facts, numbers, proofs, and wishes by the user stating himself. No need to argue here anymore, if the community asks for more screenshots like this, most of them coming via email and chat, we would be more than welcome to reveal them. Unfortunately, many of those are quite sensitive and cannot be shared publicly - but if that's the case we can.

Once again you keep pointing fingers at betrader and blaming them for everything without taking any responsibility for making these odds go live on your website for 2-3 hours, and then choosing to give me the option to cash out partially or in full. If according to you they made such a terrible mistake and are fully to blame for this, then go talk to them about it and get them to pay me for my winning bet out of their own pocket (and btw, as a user I see you both as the same company and I don't like to see this "separation" or "me vs them" mentality - to me you are both equally the same).

But why are you blaming & penalizing ME for their mistake when I had absolutely nothing to do with it?

Why do I have to be the one who suffers your consequences and loses thousands of dollars while you and your lovely betrader partner get away with this and face 0 consequences for your "mistake"? That's not how it works.

In life, any time you make a mistake in anything it comes with negative consequences & you have to pay for it; and in this situation your consequences were either losing the bet in full or partially after you decided to change the odds. This is beyond my control and NOT my mistake.

Just like if I make a mistake and choose the wrong odds or put in the wrong amount to bet with, that also has negative consequences to me and is entirely my fault & has nothing to do with you. In this case I can lose a lot of money which wasn't intentional, but it is only my fault if it happens and I have to take 100% responsibility for it instead of pointing fingers at other people for my mistake.  

Also, to respond to the screenshot you attached in my email:

I was asking for the stake because that is something that should have been done right away. It is completely unacceptable to take away a bettor's stake if their bet gets canceled for any reason. This is what annoys me the most and you should have returned my stake 2 months ago, because that's what you MUST do any time a bet gets canceled. And much like a Hero or Legendary member recently said here - not returning my stake in the case of a bet cancelation is considered a criminal offense . It is theft & robbery at its finest.

So the first step or thing you must do is return my stake. And after you would have returned my stake THEN we can discuss and debate whether or not it was right or justifiable for you to cancel my bet 2 hours before the match was about to start. This can be a long debate but I have proven many times by now why I 100% deserve to win my bet in full, and many users here agree with me as well (which is why this is what I am ultimately going for & fully deserve).

But you returning my 0.0672 BTC stake is not even a debate and a complete no-brainer + non-negotiable. You MUST return my stake back at the very least and you should have done it right away 2 months ago. I shouldn't even have to ask or explain to you a thousand times why you need to return my stake back and why you should have done so the moment you canceled my bet. And everyone in the community agrees with me on this also.

Although ultimately what I am really after is claiming my bet as a full win because this bet should have never been canceled in the first place for all the reasons I explained above and earlier in this thread.

Not only is it morally & ethically wrong, but you had no valid explanation for canceling this bet to begin with. Mistakes happen and odds change all the time, sometimes more so than other times, but it is never a valid or good enough reason to cancel a bet in advance. Especially not when all other betting sites did not cancel this match for their users, and you are the only one who did.

How is that right or fair in any way? It isn't and I think you know this yourself.

You also mention that my facts and numbers do not align - what exactly does NOT align? What did I say or write before as evidence that is either NOT true or I am claiming something different now? You need to be more specific rather than just bluntly saying stuff like this & generalizing too much.

Finally, you blame betrader again saying you "had no signal from betradar about the mistakenly provided odds" at the time of my cashout.

Well, guess what? I can care less about your signals! It is not my fault or responsibility or mistake as the user. It is 100% your responsibility to make sure that BEFORE you give me this option to cashout, that you do your 100% due diligence with your betrader partner.

But once you make it official and allow me to withdraw if I wanted to, then that's 100% on you because it is your site, not betrader's.

It seems like you need to have a long discussion with betrader about what happened and how exactly you are both going to fix it by rewarding me my winning bet. That as well as how to avoid a similar situation as this happening in the future.

But for the meantime, you owe me 0.174 BTC for choosing the right player to win this match. Plain & simple.

And if you have any honor, dignity, or goodwill - then I'd like to think that you'll take responsibility for what happened (even if it was a mistake), and reward me for my winning bet in full.