Lightning Network Development in Bitcoin

[Bitcoin Guy]

Could someone tell me if the LN is implemented in Bitcoin?  If not, what are the challenges and concerns in implementing it?  Thank you in advance.

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[mk4]

I'm not the most technical guy here for sure, but I'm pretty sure Lightning Network isn't directly implemented in Bitcoin; one of the most used ways to describe it, is that LN stays "on top" of Bitcoin.

Think like, instead of directly changing your laptop's GPU, instead, you just use an external GPU instead, ending up with you not needing to tinker(and probably potentially mess up) with the laptop's internals itself. <--definitely not the best analogy, but yea LOL.

What an external GPU looks like(source)

(feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, technical people of Bitcointalk)

[Maus0728]

I only have the slightest idea about Lightning Network but I am pretty sure that some wallet such as Electrum, bluewallet and Eclair have supported the use of Lightning transaction. Although I still not tried them yet.

@Rath_ has created a thread where they discuss information about the latest trends in the implementation of LN. You can try checking them out.
[1] Basics of the Lightning Network
[2] The Lightning Network FAQ

[bitadelco]

It is a 'second layer' technology meaning that it is developed as a chain that exists separate yet connected to Bitcoin. The only time I believe that it generates transactions on the Bitcoin blockchain is whenever lightning channels are opened and closed. This is the beauty of lightning because it's ideal for managing all the smaller transactions as a sidechain without bombarding the main Bitcoin network - it only talks to the main Bitcoin network once two lightning channels need to settle up.

[Bitcoin Guy]

Thank you all for your reply. 

So with the LN sidechain, does it solved the slow transaction speed issue? 
Does it make the mining fee cheaper now? 
Is using Bitcoin to buy a pack of gym feasible nowadays?

(I just came back to this after 2018.  I stopped following it after Bitcoin dropped from $20K to 4 figures - too depressed to think about it till recently. )

I only have the slightest idea about Lightning Network but I am pretty sure that some wallet such as Electrum, bluewallet and Eclair have supported the use of Lightning transaction. Although I still not tried them yet.

@Rath_ has created a thread where they discuss information about the latest trends in the implementation of LN. You can try checking them out.
[1] Basics of the Lightning Network
[2] The Lightning Network FAQ

I wish I can understand their talk. 

[Charles-Tim]

You can check the Bitcoin lightning network 'real time statistics'.
https://1ml.com/statistics

So with the LN sidechain, does it solved the slow transaction speed issue?

It will solve it. The transaction speed of the lightning network can be as low as a second, also if the onchain fee is too high, some people can later be resorting to lightning network for sending Bitcoin which is cheaper.

Does it make the mining fee cheaper now?

The lightning network fee is very negligible, at 0.000005 satoshi.

Is using Bitcoin to buy a pack of gym feasible nowadays?

Some people have used lightning network, it is slowly increasing in adoption but there is still an increase in lightning network adoption which makes it feasible. But, it will be good for transferring small amount of Bitcoin.

[Rath_]

I wish I can understand their talk. 

Feel free to post your questions in those two threads, even if you think that the answer to them might be too obvious for other people.

You can check the Bitcoin lightning network 'real time statistics'.
https://1ml.com/statistics

Those statistics are fairly accurate, but keep in mind that they don't account for private channels, which are created by Electrum and mobile clients.

Does it make the mining fee cheaper now?

The Lightning Network is still in its infancy, so very few people and services use it. The vast majority of the transactions is made on-chain, so the LN still has a negligible impact on the transaction fees. However, you can save quite a lot of money if you open a channel and use it a few times, especially when the on-chain fees spike. Large payments over the Lightning Network are slowly becoming feasible thanks to growing network's liquidity and the implementation of multi-part payments.

[Stalker22]

I only have the slightest idea about Lightning Network but I am pretty sure that some wallet such as Electrum, bluewallet and Eclair have supported the use of Lightning transaction. Although I still not tried them yet.

Yeah, BlueWallet is great. I downloaded it for the first time when I needed a wallet for the Lightning Network. Before that, I was trying to open an LN channel in Electrum and wasted a couple of dollars on fees, but without success. I don't get it why they have to complicate things so much. Since then, BlueWallet has been on my smartphone and ready for small transactions via LN.

[Rath_]

I don't get it why they have to complicate things so much. Since then, BlueWallet has been on my smartphone and ready for small transactions via LN. I don't get it why they have to complicate things so much. Since then, BlueWallet has been on my smartphone and ready for small transactions via LN.

That's because Electrum, unlike BlueWallet, is not a custodial wallet. Using Electrum is still far easier than using Eclair, c-lightning or LND. However, I get why you appreciate the ease of use of BlueWallet as I also keep it on my phone along with a few thousand satoshis.

[yhiaali3]

The Bitcoin Lightning Network has not yet been implemented, although the Bitcoin Lightning Network has great features, but there are some restrictions that developers must work to improve such as:
- The recipient must be connected to the network to complete the payment process
- Network participants need to regularly monitor payment channels to maintain their balances
- Not recommended for large batches
- Opening and closing the payment channel requires a chain transaction that is done manually and requires high transaction fees
These are the most important flaws of the Bitcoin Lightning Network and may be delaying the network's spread.

[Bitcoin Guy]

The Bitcoin Lightning Network has not yet been implemented, although the Bitcoin Lightning Network has great features, but there are some restrictions that developers must work to improve such as:
- The recipient must be connected to the network to complete the payment process
- Network participants need to regularly monitor payment channels to maintain their balances
- Not recommended for large batches
- Opening and closing the payment channel requires a chain transaction that is done manually and requires high transaction fees
These are the most important flaws of the Bitcoin Lightning Network and may be delaying the network's spread.

These are very tight restrictions!  It makes LN not very convenient to use on Bitcoin transaction.  Hope there restrictions can be overcome soon. 

[PhoenixZephyrus]

The biggest problem with Lightning Network is definitely adoption, from what I've read up on the topic, it just seems to not be that widely accepted.

You can call it like a layer on TOP of the current bitcoin blockchain. "The Lightning Network is a "layer 2" payment protocol that operates on top of a blockchain-based cryptocurrency (like bitcoin)." (Source: Wikipedia)

It mainly attempts to try to solve the few quirks that we face that might discourage new users from adopting bitcoin, probably the most significant of which is the transaction fees. Block confirmation times for the lightning network transactions are extremely fast, like even in the order of milliseconds. Confirmation time on the bitcoin blockchain, however, usually takes around 10-30 mins depending on the fees that you decide to include. And Lightning doesn't sacrifice privacy too, form what I understand, the transactions are still just as anonymous. It aims to solve the problem that arises as the bitcoin network can only process chunks of data in specific sizes (I think this limit was changed a couple of years ago, don't remember exactly ), and only a certain number at a time

These transactions are processed differently compared to standard transactions occurring on the bitcoin blockchain. They are only updated on the main blockchain when two parties open and close a channel. Between those two transactions, the parties can shift funds between themselves multiple times without informing the main blockchain about their activities. This approach speeds up a transaction’s speed because all transactions are not required to be approved by all nodes within a blockchain.


The lightning network uses smart contracts and multisignature scripts to implement this. The bidirectional payment channels between two nodes, combined, create "smart contracts". If at any time either party drops the channel, the channel will close and be settled on the blockchain. Due to the nature of the Lightning Network's dispute mechanism, which requires all users to watch the blockchain constantly for fraud, the concept of a "watchtower" has also been developed, where trust can be outsourced to watchtower nodes to monitor for fraud.

[Bitcoin Guy]

The biggest problem with Lightning Network is definitely adoption, from what I've read up on the topic, it just seems to not be that widely accepted.

You can call it like a layer on TOP of the current bitcoin blockchain. "The Lightning Network is a "layer 2" payment protocol that operates on top of a blockchain-based cryptocurrency (like bitcoin)." (Source: Wikipedia)

It mainly attempts to try to solve the few quirks that we face that might discourage new users from adopting bitcoin, ........

Thank you.  Very informative- even though I don’t fully understand. 

Are there any risks associated in using LN beside fraud?

[PhoenixZephyrus]

The biggest problem with Lightning Network is definitely adoption, from what I've read up on the topic, it just seems to not be that widely accepted.

You can call it like a layer on TOP of the current bitcoin blockchain. "The Lightning Network is a "layer 2" payment protocol that operates on top of a blockchain-based cryptocurrency (like bitcoin)." (Source: Wikipedia)

It mainly attempts to try to solve the few quirks that we face that might discourage new users from adopting bitcoin, ........

Thank you.  Very informative- even though I don’t fully understand. 

Are there any risks associated in using LN beside fraud?

Well, there are a few. Obviously, the fraud is probably gonna be people's main concern when considering LN. Also, there's the case of loss of decentralization, as funds are concentrated in certain nodes of the network, this is what facilitates faster transactions.

[DapanasFruit]

The Bitcoin Lightning Network has not yet been implemented, although the Bitcoin Lightning Network has great features, but there are some restrictions that developers must work to improve such as:
- The recipient must be connected to the network to complete the payment process
- Network participants need to regularly monitor payment channels to maintain their balances
- Not recommended for large batches
- Opening and closing the payment channel requires a chain transaction that is done manually and requires high transaction fees
These are the most important flaws of the Bitcoin Lightning Network and may be delaying the network's spread.

These are very tight restrictions!  It makes LN not very convenient to use on Bitcoin transaction.  Hope there restrictions can be overcome soon. 

I had been wondering the same thing why LN is not getting the support of many and why it failed to get the popularity it must have. So these are the limitations that developers have to contend with before we can expect LN to be utilized widespread by Bitcoin supporters and enthusiasts. Hope that something can be coming out with this area soon.

[Rath_]

I had been wondering the same thing why LN is not getting the support of many and why it failed to get the popularity it must have.

There is still a lot of room for improvements. Developers are working hard to introduce features like dual-funded channels, splicing-in/out, and improve the code base. Recently introduced multi-part payments were a huge milestone. Right now, a lot of people could get easily frustrated with routing problems.

So these are the limitations that developers have to contend with before we can expect LN to be utilized widespread by Bitcoin supporters and enthusiasts. Hope that something can be coming out with this area soon.

I believe that most of these people will end up using custodial wallets like BlueWallet, which already provide a fairly good experience, because of the difficulty of proper channel management. It will take a lot of time and effort before non-custodial Lightning wallets become as easy to use as custodial ones.

[PhoenixZephyrus]

I had been wondering the same thing why LN is not getting the support of many and why it failed to get the popularity it must have.

There is still a lot of room for improvements. Developers are working hard to introduce features like dual-funded channels, splicing-in/out, and improve the code base. Recently introduced multi-part payments were a huge milestone. Right now, a lot of people could get easily frustrated with routing problems.

So these are the limitations that developers have to contend with before we can expect LN to be utilized widespread by Bitcoin supporters and enthusiasts. Hope that something can be coming out with this area soon.

I believe that most of these people will end up using custodial wallets like BlueWallet, which already provide a fairly good experience, because of the difficulty of proper channel management. It will take a lot of time and effort before non-custodial Lightning wallets become as easy to use as custodial ones.

Electrum currently has a Lightning Network implementation. Have you used it/what are your thoughts on it? Because I haven't been able to try it due to lack of support.

[Rath_]

Electrum currently has a Lightning Network implementation. Have you used it/what are your thoughts on it? Because I haven't been able to try it due to lack of support.

Yes, I have. In fact, I wrote a detailed guide to using it (Electrum Lightning Network walkthrough). If you have any questions, you can post them in that thread. It's definitely easier to use than c-lightning and LND, but it still lacks some important features like multi-part payments and configurable settings.

[PhoenixZephyrus]

Electrum currently has a Lightning Network implementation. Have you used it/what are your thoughts on it? Because I haven't been able to try it due to lack of support.

Yes, I have. In fact, I wrote a detailed guide to using it (Electrum Lightning Network walkthrough). If you have any questions, you can post them in that thread. It's definitely easier to use than c-lightning and LND, but it still lacks some important features like multi-part payments and configurable settings.

Thank you, I'll definitely take a look and go through that. Looks very detailed

[yhiaali3]

Well, there are a few. Obviously, the fraud is probably gonna be people's main concern when considering LN. Also, there's the case of loss of decentralization, as funds are concentrated in certain nodes of the network, this is what facilitates faster transactions.

I don't know where is the central part of the Bitcoin Lightning Network? This is not accurate !! The Bitcoin Lightning Network is a temporary record between two parties who conduct many transactions without being recorded on the public Bitcoin Blockchain so that the transactions are processed faster and the final result is recorded only on the Blockchain, do you see there is any centralization in this?