[ANN] ✰ WhaleMixer.com ✰ Mixer That Dispense Freshly Mined Coins

[mocacinno]

--snip--

The letter of guarantee is on the website

Letter of Guarantee
You can check the guarantee letter at our check status page

how do you know that the user did not manually deleting the logs ?

We send out fresh coins thats been aged and mixed before dispensing

we have resolved all our claims , errors do occur and we are here to solve it.

A letter of guarantee is an actual contract that lists the deposit and the withdraw addresses, the fee structure and the timeframe of validity. This contract needs to be electronically signed by you... Either using a pgp keypair or a bitcoin keypair... The public key (or address) HAS to be known by the community beforehand. This way anybody can verify the contract (even if your site is down, or if you'd dissapear).
This is what a "letter of guarantee" means in the bitcoin mixer context.

I just visited your site, and i can't find a "check status" page... Even if i did, a "check status" is not equal to a letter of guarantee...
Some random pieces of text are NOT a letter of guarantee, a canary is NOT a letter of guarantee...

I'm happy the issue for this particular user got fixed, but you really need to rethink your concept... The current setup does not suffice (as proven by this user's issue)

Once again: you can NOT make up your own defenitions... A letter of guarantee is a letter of guarantee... Freshly mined coins are freshly mined coins... Fast support is fast support.... A low fee is a low fee...
You can not use your own defenition of these terms. If i buy a blue car, i want a blue car. I'm not happy if the car retailer uses his own defenition of blue and gives me a yellow car instead.

[LoyceV]

We have found that the logs were deleted manually

I'm curious: how did you find out logs were deleted? Isn't the whole point of deleting logs that you can't find out anymore?

however in good faith and benefits of doubt , we are taking the responsibility and refunded you back with the excess we found in the account that matched the transaction ID you mentioned .

This makes no sense. Why don't you offer users a real Letter of Guarantee? There's literally no valid reason for not doing so, other than ensuring the user can't prove foul play.

We apologize is this was an error from our side and we will improve our services to serve our clients better.

Great! How about you start by removing all lies from your site and posts, provide proof of funds, and implement a Letter of Guarantee?

The letter of guarantee is on the website

Nope.

We send out fresh coins thats been aged and mixed before dispensing

Not this again! Fresly mined coins are no longer fresh if you mix them. I'm starting to think you deserve a Newbie warning Flag.

you really need to rethink your concept... The current setup does not suffice (as proven by this user's issue)

The current setup seems perfectly fine for a planned exit scam.

[Tamagotchikiller]

Please confirm that this has been resolved.

Please PM me or to my given email the transaction ID where you sent the refund to.
I still didnt received anything so I cant confirm.

I also cannot understand why I dont get any respond through email or that you are interested in getting in touch through PM with me as you know that you disabled the PM function that newbies can PM you?

And as I said I didnt deleted anything manually, not deleted any logs, nothing. This must be a bug on your side.

[dkbit98]

The letter of guarantee is on the website

Your customer said that he never saw any letter of guarantee so it was his confession not mine, so I can't verify that on status page.
You also don't reply to any of his emails, like he said before.

how do you know that the user did not manually deleting the logs ?

He said that he didn't deleted anything manually, so it's his word against yours, and he is complaining.
I also don't even know how and why should manual deleting of logs be possible.

We send out fresh coins thats been aged and mixed before dispensing

There are NO fresh coins at your service, and that was proven several times.

I'm curious: how did you find out logs were deleted? Isn't the whole point of deleting logs that you can't find out anymore?

He is using gipsy fortune teller that was probably looking at the palm of his hand 

[mocacinno]

Ok... So, in order to summarise the issues (once again), i dug into your site and made following screenshot of the services your provide.
I take these services as a contract: mixing is based on trust. If I read a list like this on a mixer, i think there should be no wiggle room for discussion, the list is iron-clad. Even a single lie in a list like this should have grave consequences!
You are a mixer, you should do, without any discussion, everything you promise on your main page... No smallprint, no hidden twisted phrases in your TOS that allow you to divert from your promises... A mixer should be upfront and completely honest about everything they claim.
Also, and i keep repeating myself: no selfmade defenitions... Mixing isn't a new business, if you say things like "freshly mined" and "letter of guarantee", it should mean exactly the same on your site as it means on any other mixer out there.

I've included a color code:

• Red: proven to be (partially) untrue
• Yellow: unproven or unprovable
• Green: (mostly) true

Red: proven to be (partially) untrue

• Low service fee: Our service fee is random between 1.00% and 2.99% => I have seen 1 legit user posting details of 1 mix and the service fee he payed was 19,3% (proof). You do not indicate any other fees on your main page, nor in your TOS
• Farm mixed fresh: Coins are freshly mixed from our mining farm => I have proven there are no meaningfull coinbase rewards within a reasonable distance.
   (proof). You keep throwing statements around telling us you want to protect your miners, and i keep telling you that it simply does not work like this: a coinbase reward is always visible. If you mixed fresh coins, they were exchanged with tainted coins and you're giving away tainted funds, not fresh.
• Fast support: We reply to all our clients within 1-24 hours and we support PGP encryption => but there are (trusted) users claiming they never received a reply
• Letter of guarantee: You can check the guarantee letter on our check status page => i could not find a link to your check status page, and even if there was such a link, you cannot publish a static page and use it as a letter of guarantee (extra info)

Yellow: unproven or unprovable

• Logless transactions: Logs are destroyed automatically after transactions complete => unprovable, but no mixer can proof this, so it shouldn't be used against you or your service
• Two pools system: We have a receiving pool and a sending pool => i only had the option to study one mixing session, it did not allow me to verify this claim
• Talkless database: Receiving and sending database are seperated => unprovable, but no mixer can proof this, so it shouldn't be used against you or your service
• Fully automated: Our site is fully automated to ensure highest level of privacy => eventough automation has little to do with privacy, and i have a gut feeling this claim might not be 100% true, i cannot verify
• High volume mixing: Our reserve holds high volume of fresh coins for mixing => i personally do not believe you hold the volume you say you're holding. I'm not even talking about the amount you claim to actually hold, whilst advertising an amount that's 100x higher (proof). But there is no 100% conclusive way to proof anything. You say you hold 50 BTC, the one publicly available mixing session does not show this, you refuse to sign a message... It's possible you hold 50 BTC, but i seriously doubt it (but cannot provide proof)
• The highest level of protection: We take privacy protection seriously as it is our core business => after analysing Tryninja's mixing session, i seriously believe i'm seeing funds payed out to your other clients (and all output addresses from a single session are payed out in one single transaction aswell), the phrasing "highest level of protection" is also a pretty big claim... I seriously doubt it, but i cannot provide any evidence

Green: (mostly) true

• Variable receive time: Random delay between 5 minutes - 6 hours to ensure privacy => Eventough i've seen clients of you claim to have waited far longer (so your statement is partially true), the time seems to be random... If it's in order to increase the privacy, or because you're manually creating transactions, or because you're waiting for dips in the mempool so you can pay lower transaction fees and keep more money to yourself... i simply cannot tell
• Multi Crypto Support: We currently support 6 different coins => eventough i've only seen people testing out BTC mixing, you do seem to accept other coins aswell
• SSL protected: Our sites are protected from data leaks => this is true, no MITM... You're using an X3 certificate, which is good
• No registration required: We do not collect personal data and no registration required => seems to be true, unless your customer wants an api key
• Onion Site friendly: Our service is also available on TOR network for better privacy => true

Next to this, there are other issues:

• At least one user claims not to have received his mixed coins. You say you refunded him (no proof), he says he didn't receive anything (no proof either)
• There is no address check, you can enter whatever (incorrect) address you want, and your system will blindly accept it
• Not all security headers are fixed: Strict-Transport-Security Content-Security-Policy X-Frame-Options X-Content-Type-Options Referrer-Policy Permissions-Policy
• Nginx 1.10.1 was released in 2016... Time for a new version?
• Your website seems to be down quite often, which might mean there are underlying issues with the hardware or the setup.
• I'm not a native speaker, and i'm a dyslectic... Still, i spot loads of spelling mistakes. This might indicate a very cheap translation, or a slightly modified google translation. Which might result in subtility's getting lost in translation.
• A daily reboot? Why? I have production systems that run 24/7 between 2 patchcycles. It's not uncommon for a linux server to remain online for several months.
• I have read the discussion you had with VOD, and i found it childish you kept calling him a girl. Where i'm from, it's no shame being a girl, but the way you kept repeating this word tells me you meant it as an insult. That's not how a business is supposed to operate... Really...

[LoyceV]

I've included a color code:

• Red: proven to be (partially) untrue
• Yellow: unproven or unprovable

Great overview!
If OP wouldn't have lied in statements that can be verified, he would at least deserve the benefit of the doubt for statements that can't be verified. By lying on statements that can be confirmed, OP lost all credibility and it's safe to assume the unprovable statements are lies too.

[whalemixer1]

Please confirm that this has been resolved.

Please PM me or to my given email the transaction ID where you sent the refund to.
I still didnt received anything so I cant confirm.

I also cannot understand why I dont get any respond through email or that you are interested in getting in touch through PM with me as you know that you disabled the PM function that newbies can PM you?

And as I said I didnt deleted anything manually, not deleted any logs, nothing. This must be a bug on your side.

Tried to PM you , its disabled , kindly PM me , i have enable my PM

The reason emails were not asnwered could be due to non-PGP messages , I am not sure , that could be the reason , I am just in the marketing team.
Unmixed amount will be sent back to the address that you sent the funds from.
If a mix fails , the system will not process the mix and if any contact made , the mix will also be reversed to ensure highest level of security as we dont want any link between sender and the person tried communicating with us via email or PM especially with non-PGP format

Kindly check and update me or PM me

[whalemixer1]

--snip--

The letter of guarantee is on the website

Letter of Guarantee
You can check the guarantee letter at our check status page

how do you know that the user did not manually deleting the logs ?

We send out fresh coins thats been aged and mixed before dispensing

we have resolved all our claims , errors do occur and we are here to solve it.

A letter of guarantee is an actual contract that lists the deposit and the withdraw addresses, the fee structure and the timeframe of validity. This contract needs to be electronically signed by you... Either using a pgp keypair or a bitcoin keypair... The public key (or address) HAS to be known by the community beforehand. This way anybody can verify the contract (even if your site is down, or if you'd dissapear).
This is what a "letter of guarantee" means in the bitcoin mixer context.

I just visited your site, and i can't find a "check status" page... Even if i did, a "check status" is not equal to a letter of guarantee...
Some random pieces of text are NOT a letter of guarantee, a canary is NOT a letter of guarantee...

I'm happy the issue for this particular user got fixed, but you really need to rethink your concept... The current setup does not suffice (as proven by this user's issue)

Once again: you can NOT make up your own defenitions... A letter of guarantee is a letter of guarantee... Freshly mined coins are freshly mined coins... Fast support is fast support.... A low fee is a low fee...
You can not use your own defenition of these terms. If i buy a blue car, i want a blue car. I'm not happy if the car retailer uses his own defenition of blue and gives me a yellow car instead.

If a downloadable letter of guarantee, its a prove that the mixing took place and it puts the client at risk, so the letter of guarantee is on the website , it can be deleted manually, or deleted once mixing takes place

our fees has always been 0.99-2.99% but transaction fee is high then we cant do anything abt it especially for a small mix , for a mix of USD30 and transaction fee of 4 USD that comes to an situation where user feels we over charged. Thats not the case. we mentioned transaction fee is charged.

back to fresh coins, all our coins are from mining, its then mixed with aged fresh mined coins as well then dispensed to avoid clients receiving very suspicious brand new coins always.

we know logs are deleted but other details are dropped. so we cant do the mix if logs are manually deleted as we don't know where to send it to

[dkbit98]

If a downloadable letter of guarantee, its a prove that the mixing took place and it puts the client at risk, so the letter of guarantee is on the website , it can be deleted manually, or deleted once mixing takes place

Please show us the link so we can download that mythical letter of guarantee that nobody ever saw.

back to fresh coins, all our coins are from mining, its then mixed with aged fresh mined coins as well then dispensed to avoid clients receiving very suspicious brand new coins always.

Debunked, fake and proved as false several times, yet you still continue to spread this false propaganda.
Whalemixer doesn't have any fresh coins. Period.

[mocacinno]

--snip--
If a downloadable letter of guarantee, its a prove that the mixing took place and it puts the client at risk, so the letter of guarantee is on the website , it can be deleted manually, or deleted once mixing takes place

I tried starting a mixing session (ofcourse i did not fund the address shown on your page), i could not find any meaningful letter of guarantee... I see a bunch of codes, but no document digitally signed by you. It's possible i overlooked, but that means your design is made in such a way that this very important information is very easily overlooked... This is NOT ok.

--snip--
we mentioned transaction fee is charged.
--snip--

Where on your website do you mention this? I scanned your main page, i read your TOS, i did not find any readable, understandable sentence that clearly points out you'll also substract the transaction fee from the amount received by your client. This is not industry standard (other mixers include the transaction fee in the service fee, at least the ones i used to use in the past), and if it's not very clearly indicated on several hard to miss spots it counts as misdirection.

back to fresh coins, all our coins are from mining, its then mixed with aged fresh mined coins as well then dispensed to avoid clients receiving very suspicious brand new coins always.

(no, no, no, no, no, no, no).10¹⁰⁰⁰⁰
This is the real life equivalent of you selling me new shoes, but you didn't want to expose your shoemaker, so you got the new shoes, exchanged them with a homeless guy and gave me the homeless guy's shoes while billing me new shoes.... NO! If you sell freshly mined coins, you sell freshly mined coins... Once you mix them, you've switched newly mined coins by dirty, tainted coins... You're passing on these tained coins as fresh. This is fraud. No matter how often you repeat your dogma, it is incorrect... Loads of longtime members have told you it's incorrect, it's easy to see it's incorrect, please try to wrap your head around the fact that you made a procedural mistake and reimburse everybody you sold tainted coins to!

Here's a diagram that tries to explain things in a new way... Please study!
It's the case of 2 company's that sell cellphones of brand "Newphone". They both sell brand new Newphone's to their clients.

• Company 1 (let's call them "other mixer") goes to the factory, gets a new Newphone, takes money from their client and gives them a new Newphone => Client = happy
• Company 2 (let's call them "whalemixer") goes to the factory, gets a new Newphone, goes to a begger he finds on the street, exchanges the new Newphone for the beggers old "Brokenphone". He then takes the money for a new Newphone from his client, but instead of giving him the new Newphone, he gives him the old broken "Brokenphone" whilst charging for a newphone. When the client is unhappy, company 2 tells them they had a new Newphone, but they didn't want to disclose witch factory the Newphone was produced in, so they swapped the Newphone for an Brokenphone. They say the client should be happy with his Brokenphone because it was exchanged for a Newphone so it has an equal value. Result => Client unhappy (begger happy)

we know logs are deleted but other details are dropped. so we cant do the mix if logs are manually deleted as we don't know where to send it to

Can you elaborate? You don't log, but logs are deleted, but details are dropped, so you can't mix, but people manually delete what has already been deleted, so you didn't save the output address? In that case: look at the letter of guarantee you provide but nobody seems to be able to find, all details should be clearly written down in this letter, and signed by you

[Tamagotchikiller]

Tried to PM you , its disabled , kindly PM me , i have enable my PM

The reason emails were not asnwered could be due to non-PGP messages , I am not sure , that could be the reason , I am just in the marketing team.
Unmixed amount will be sent back to the address that you sent the funds from.
If a mix fails , the system will not process the mix and if any contact made , the mix will also be reversed to ensure highest level of security as we dont want any link between sender and the person tried communicating with us via email or PM especially with non-PGP format

Kindly check and update me or PM me

I sent you a PM.

I can prove my sender adress with receiver adress (mixer adress) with screenshot directly from my electrum wallet. I can also make a videoproof if you wish.
I also can proof that I didnt received anything.

I dont understand how a mix can fail, if there is no step you can do wrong.
For me its a mystery.
I used alot of mixers, never saw issues like that ever before.

[mocacinno]

--snip--

I sent you a PM.

I can prove my sender adress with receiver adress (mixer adress) with screenshot directly from my electrum wallet. I can also make a videoproof if you wish.
I also can proof that I didnt received anything.

I dont understand how a mix can fail, if there is no step you can do wrong.
For me its a mystery.
I used alot of mixers, never saw issues like that ever before.

As soon as you decide your coins are worth more than the value of this mixing session, it might be a good idear to start sharing transaction id's... Maybe sign a message with an address whose unspent outputs were used to fund whalemixer's deposit addy? He already admitted coins suddenly showed up in his wallet, so maybe it's time to show some proof?

[Tamagotchikiller]

so maybe it's time to show some proof?

I sent LoyceV a PM

[LoyceV]

Maybe sign a message with an address whose unspent outputs were used to fund whalemixer's deposit addy?

This doesn't prove anything. The problem is, there's no way to know which address is owned by WhaleMixer. WhaleMixer setup their site in such a way it's impossible to prove anything, and since they're a "classic" mixer (without chips and private keys), there is no valid reason not to provide a signed Letter of Guarantee. Unless they plan to cheat their users, of course.

He already admitted coins suddenly showed up in his wallet, so maybe it's time to show some proof?

He also claimed to have returned them.

so maybe it's time to show some proof?

I sent LoyceV a PM

All I know for sure is that the address received Bitcoins 4 days ago, and they haven't moved since. There's no way to prove anything.

I think it's time you create a Scam Accusation for a Flag. Unfortunately, there's no hard evidence for a type 3 Flag, but the fact that the mixer is setup to deny the user any evidence, should be enough to justify a Newbie warning Flag (type 1).

[Tamagotchikiller]

Thank you, I will do a Scam Accusation.

I just want to say one more thing.

I had to tell him the exact amount I sent to the mixer adress otherwise he said he wont refund. I wrote him an email with transaction ID and told him the exact amount.
The next day he said he refunded (what he didn't).
With that the amount that was sent to the mixer adress is exactly proofed and clear, means, he confirmed this amount I sent to the mixer adress that I sent you in the proof in the PM.
I also can proof that the adress belongs to me.
The sender adress is also clear and there it can also be checked if any refund was received by the sender adress.
There you can see that nothing was received. No refunds.

Edit, report made: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5349321.0

[whalemixer1]

Thank you, I will do a Scam Accusation.

I just want to say one more thing.

I had to tell him the exact amount I sent to the mixer adress otherwise he said he wont refund. I wrote him an email with transaction ID and told him the exact amount.
The next day he said he refunded (what he didn't).
With that the amount that was sent to the mixer adress is exactly proofed and clear, means, he confirmed this amount I sent to the mixer adress that I sent you in the proof in the PM.
I also can proof that the adress belongs to me.
The sender adress is also clear and there it can also be checked if any refund was received by the sender adress.
There you can see that nothing was received. No refunds.

Edit, report made: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5349321.0

Hangon There could be a error on our side ,

2 people files a claim and what we believe is we might have wrongly refunded to the wrong person.

I think we refunded to cryptoenthusiast777444 instead of Tamagotchikiller

cryptoenthusiast777444 would you be able to kindly refund us the amount

and Tamagotchikiller would you reply our PM

[dkbit98]

I think it's time you create a Scam Accusation for a Flag. Unfortunately, there's no hard evidence for a type 3 Flag, but the fact that the mixer is setup to deny the user any evidence, should be enough to justify a Newbie warning Flag (type 1).

I am fully supporting this scam accusation and I already left them negative feedback on their profile, warning about high risk of using their service for mixing coins.

I think we refunded to cryptoenthusiast777444 instead of Tamagotchikiller

This is so embarrassing and amateurish that I have no comments and their actions are speaking for themselves

[LoyceV]

2 people files a claim and what we believe is we might have wrongly refunded to the wrong person.

I think we refunded to cryptoenthusiast777444 instead of Tamagotchikiller

"Might" and "think"? Did you or did you not? Blockchain evidence means a solid yes or no, not a "maybe". Have you refunded one person or two?
Cryptoenthusiast777444 wrote this:

A person to whom the funds were sent  (And for whom I made this post) said "Everything is OK now"
So my problem is Solved!.

It doesn't look like he has to refund you.

I think we refunded to cryptoenthusiast777444 instead of Tamagotchikiller

This is so embarrassing and amateurish that I have no comments and their actions are speaking for themselves

Looks like they forgot about this plan:

Unmixed amount will be sent back to the address that you sent the funds from.
If a mix fails , the system will not process the mix and if any contact made , the mix will also be reversed to ensure highest level of security

[dkbit98]

Looks like they forgot about this plan:

Unmixed amount will be sent back to the address that you sent the funds from.
If a mix fails , the system will not process the mix and if any contact made , the mix will also be reversed to ensure highest level of security

Yeah, it looks like that this ''system'' is actually some dude on computer that is sending coins manually to customers.
I would like to be proven wrong, but whalemixers will probably say it's not true, and they can't prove it like anything else, because it's top secret new generation quantum tech.  

[LoyceV]

Yeah, it looks like that this ''system'' is actually some dude on computer that is sending coins manually to customers.

That would explain the random mixing time.