That's it. I am done. This country is done. I am getting the fuck out of here.

[doobadoo]

When no guns are around people dont get shot...

Right, they get stabbed, or beaten with a bat.

[btc_artist]

Arizona has similar gun laws, look what happened to Gabrielle Giffords

Permissive gun laws did not cause that shooting.  A mental breakdown on the part of the shooter caused it.  Restrictive gun laws would not have stopped it either.  Washington DC and New York City have some of the highest violent crime and murder rates in the US, while they are two of the most restrictive jurisdictions in terms of purchasing or owning weapons.

All the statistics show Gun possession causes violence not stops it.

That is patently false.  Statistics seem to indicate that gun possession reduces violence and crime.

[btc_artist]

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

[Matthew N. Wright]

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

So long as people don't want to die, laws work. That's changing more and more everyday.

[MoonShadow]

All the statistics show Gun possession causes violence not stops it.

Ah, no.  That's not remotely accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Guns,_Less_Crime

This is the largest study on the subject ever done, anywhere in the world.  The conclusion isn't even in contest, the results of states passing carry permits for any citizen are overwhelmingly in favor of the title of the book.  More guns in society results in less violent crime overall.  We can argue all day over why this is so, but not about the empirical facts.

[MoonShadow]

i don't have to move I already live in NY - we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

I know a guy who was born and raised in NYC, and moved to my present city of Louisville, Kentucky because he is a chef's assistant and now works for General Electric in the appliances testing division, presumedly testing kitchen appliances.  He was both shocked and a little taken aback to learn that there existed so many firearms in the city, and that it was legal for citizens to walk around with them concealed.  What shocked him most was to learn that no one got hurt.  I believe in twenty years, there is only one case of a concealed carry license holder committing a gun crime in the entire state, and that wasn't here.  I've literally seen grown men with "assault" rifles slung over their backs downtown in Jefferson Park (for one of the earlier Tea Party events, before the movement was co-opted by the Republicans; best of luck staying independent OWS).  Cops around here don't get sideways with whomever they wish, like in NYC, and they damn well don't do 'no knock' home entries after dark.  That would be an exceedingly hazardous occupational risk, particularly if they got the address wrong.

This same guy couldn't get a license to drive in NYC; not only does he drive here, he owns a firearm.  As far as I know, he doesn't carry though.  This is one of the safest cities in America.

[btc_artist]

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

So long as people don't want to die, laws work. That's changing more and more everyday.

That doesn't really answer my question.

But you're right.  Laws work for people who obey laws and they don't work for people who don't obey them.  Violent criminals, by their very definition do not obey the law, so why would they obey gun control laws?

[Hawker]

Hitler was voted in with a 97% vote. The Jews proudly wore their stars

Are you serious? On both claims.

Not any longer. It seems I have been deceived.

Interesting that you were willing to believe such crazy things.

[Jalum]

I'm off to the Canadian wilderness or the West Indies; whatever tickles my fancy at the time.

Time to tap the trust fund?

[Matthew N. Wright]

I'm off to the Canadian wilderness or the West Indies; whatever tickles my fancy at the time.

Time to tap the trust fund?

Bootstraps, idiot. The forest will be brimming with fruits and meat in mere admiration.

[Jalum]

I'm off to the Canadian wilderness or the West Indies; whatever tickles my fancy at the time.

Time to tap the trust fund?

Bootstraps, idiot. The forest will be brimming with fruits and meat in mere admiration.

It's a long swim from Texas to the West Indies.

[ALPHA.]

I will say Bitcoin has treated me very well.

[Eveofwar]

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

So long as people don't want to die, laws work. That's changing more and more everyday.

That doesn't really answer my question.

But you're right.  Laws work for people who obey laws and they don't work for people who don't obey them.  Violent criminals, by their very definition do not obey the law, so why would they obey gun control laws?

If we had a law that said breaking laws was illegal, it'd fix all of this.

[Matthew N. Wright]

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

So long as people don't want to die, laws work. That's changing more and more everyday.

That doesn't really answer my question.

But you're right.  Laws work for people who obey laws and they don't work for people who don't obey them.  Violent criminals, by their very definition do not obey the law, so why would they obey gun control laws?

Sorry, I wasn't exactly replying, just making a general statement.

[btc_artist]

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

So long as people don't want to die, laws work. That's changing more and more everyday.

That doesn't really answer my question.

But you're right.  Laws work for people who obey laws and they don't work for people who don't obey them.  Violent criminals, by their very definition do not obey the law, so why would they obey gun control laws?

If we had a law that said breaking laws was illegal, it'd fix all of this.

You know, that just might work....

we have some of the toughest gun laws and I thank God for them.

Do you think they actually help keep violent criminals from obtaining weapons?  Honest question, not trolling.

So long as people don't want to die, laws work. That's changing more and more everyday.

That doesn't really answer my question.

But you're right.  Laws work for people who obey laws and they don't work for people who don't obey them.  Violent criminals, by their very definition do not obey the law, so why would they obey gun control laws?

Sorry, I wasn't exactly replying, just making a general statement.

Fair enough.  Your general statement is flawed though.