My 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH complaint against Stake.com

[dancpats]

I do not believe this was a scam attempt, obviously, and didn't belong in that forum,  but at the same time I believe it deserves it's own thread for discussion and hopefully a resolution.


Casino:  Stake.com
Owner(s):  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292
Amount:  13.02 BTC  & 157 ETH



I am a problem gambler with self control issues,   and on 6 June 2020  I requested and received approval for a PERMANENT self casino ban at Stake.com

Proof #1:  
https://prnt.sc/znicwi

Proof #2:
https://prnt.sc/znig7r



This "permanent"   self casino ban was later removed at my request with 1 telegram message


I then requested another permanent self casino ban on 23 September 2020  and it was granted/approved by the owner directly since he is my VIP host.

I will post the proof of this if it is requested by or disputed by Stake,   it's a private telegram message and I would like to respect his privacy.



This request was also removed and I was able to play in the casino again.  


Proof that I have been able to bet in the casino as recent as last week:
https://prnt.sc/znijh5




I tried to resolve this privately with Stake but was told  "you would have just made another account to evade the ban"

After realizing this was a poor argument to make,   they said  I only requested a permanent self casino ban  and not a self exclusion.

I agree, I did,  multiple times, and it was granted.  But they are trying to play word games saying a permanent self casino ban is somehow different than self exclusion.   This feels like a bad faith argument to make,  and I would ask Stake what their interpretation of a permanent self casino ban is exactly?


Here is Stake.com referring to the process being to request via live chat and that self exclusions are never removed for any reason what so ever, in another complaint on another site.   This is around the same time as my initial request,  months before they updated the procedure

https://prnt.sc/zqko9s

https://prnt.sc/zqjero

link to dispute:  https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/stake-casino-failure-to-close-account-and-follow-responsible-gambling-regulations





I also confirmed with one of the other owners that its allowed to request only a permanent self casino ban and still play sports,  and if it would be removed for any reason..

He told me, yes I am allowed,  and that they have a fair amount of players who do exactly that.   He said it would not be removed for any reason,  and that it is their strictly policy to never remove a self ban/exclusion request

Proof:  
https://prnt.sc/znino6



I also have countless messages with the owner (my vip host)  where he acknowledged my gambling problem prior to me requesting the permanent casino bans,   so any argument about not knowing,  or not having enough info to determine if i was a problem gambler would be insincere.   It is also irrelevant if they knew or not,  I explicitly asked for a permanented casino ban multiple times and was approved each time.

I will post these messages as well if requested by Stake, or if they dispute having knowledge.  



Some of us are able to control themselves and others like me struggle with it big time, and when we go through the stated process to request self casino exclusions/bans/ whatever word you want to use,   this is where the responsibility of the casino comes in.


It seems disingenuous at best to try to dissect the terms "permanent self casino ban"  and "permanent self exclusion"  and argue they are different and to then refer to a new policy that was not in place at the time of my initial request.  


I do not like that I had to post this for public view,  and it hurts me to cast Stake in a negative light because I genuinely like so many of the people there and think they are likely the most reputable and safe (for your funds) crypto site online , nor do I believe there were any ill or bad intentions when the self bans were removed,  however it was still a mistake and extremely poor judgement,  and should be corrected, but not at my expense.  




(The 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH is the amount I have lost in their casino since the permanent self casino ban was approved and issued to my account)

[janggernaut]

Does anyone understand what is OP trying to say on here or is it just me who confused what's actually going on here?

[Aki176]

I think not only you, I'm confusing as well :p. However, I think what OP trying to say is he want a permanent casino ban on stake and they didn't do that (or they did but then remove it).

[ralle14]

Does anyone understand what is OP trying to say on here or is it just me who confused what's actually going on here?

To make it simple OP asked for a permanent self exclusion but it didn't work since his vip host was able to remove it via telegram if im not mistaken.

And then there was a misunderstanding as OP was always reaching out to his vip host instead of the live support for this issue which was already mentioned in one of the screenshots below. 

[Garmo]

So, What I'm contouring from the situation at hand here is that, after requesting a permanent self-administered Casino ban for a period of time because of gambling issues, it is incredibly easy to lift this ban from yourself without much challenge or contestation. And that it should be a permanent ban that shouldn't be removed for any given reason, even if your life depended on it? Did I understand that correctly?

If so, then absolutely. The owners or the people hosting you shouldn't have removed the restriction that easily, and the fact they even acknowledged your self-control issues honestly just makes it all worse. They should've, at the least, explained what each type of ban indicates and what both of them entail.

[cabron]

I don't get it. You requested permaban because you have gambling issues and then when you are banned, you didn't take your funds out?  I'm not sure how stake.com works though so excuse my ignorance here.  If you have gambling issues so why not just get your funds out there.

But since you still try sports, then I guess you weren't banned at all and you still have not controlled yourself.

[plen]

I'm confused about this part:

I then requested another permanent self casino ban on 23 September 2020  and it was granted/approved by the owner directly since he is my VIP host.

I will post the proof of this if it is requested by or disputed by Stake,   it's a private telegram message and I would like to respect his privacy.

This request was also removed and I was able to play in the casino again.

What transpired such that the request was removed again? Did you speak with someone or was it just working again somehow?

[purpleleaf]

After realizing this was a poor argument to make,   they said  I only requested a permanent self casino ban  and not a self exclusion.

As far as I understand, you didn't want the self exclusion from stake coz you wanted to bet on sports section of theirs.

But you lost the said amount on their casino section post revocation of the "permanent casino ban".

If that's the case, the ban shouldn't have been rescinded that easily with just a simple message.

[OgNasty]

I don't enjoy admitting I am a degenerate with no self control,   I think most guys who request a self casino ban eventually ask for it to be removed,  but its the casino's responsibility not to do so after the process of requesting a permanent casino ban has been completed.

I am sorry for your situation.  It seems you realize that you have a problem and that is a great first step.  The next step will be accepting personal responsibility for your actions.  I don't know if a casino is required by law to ban users at their request.  That seems a bit far fetched, but I'm no expert.  If that were the case, should cigarette companies refuse to sell cigarettes to buyers that are addicted to nicotine?  Should we be burning Starbucks down because they sell coffee to repeat customers?  I don't think so.  Should Stake.com have left you banned?  Probably.  Do you have a valid complaint against Stake.com?  It doesn't appear so.  It appears you lost a lot of money from some bad bets and are now angry about it.  I don't think you have a valid complaint.  I also think had you won money instead of lost, you would be happy now.  If how you look at someone's actions is dependent upon a random outcome then I think you have other problems then this. 

I am curious where someone with these types of issues handling money would get 13 BTC.

[plen]

I'm confused about this part:

I then requested another permanent self casino ban on 23 September 2020  and it was granted/approved by the owner directly since he is my VIP host.

I will post the proof of this if it is requested by or disputed by Stake,   it's a private telegram message and I would like to respect his privacy.

This request was also removed and I was able to play in the casino again.

What transpired such that the request was removed again? Did you speak with someone or was it just working again somehow?

I again requested it to be removed via telegram.


I don't enjoy admitting I am a degenerate with no self control,   I think most guys who request a self casino ban eventually ask for it to be removed,  but its the casino's responsibility not to do so after the process of requesting a permanent casino ban has been completed.


Otherwise,  whats the point of having the process if it can be undone so easily ?

Okay, just wanted to clear that up. No one enjoys admitting their degeneracy I'm sure, I am sympathetic to your situation.

I think this really reflects poorly on stake.com. Trying to be pedantic about a permanent ban vs permanent exclusion of a specific section of their site is not within the spirit (perhaps even the legality of their license, though I have no knowledge of this, just wondering) of the whole Responsible Gambling section. I wonder if they would have been stricter if the player was not betting so much but seeing the size of your gambling they let it slide.

Either way, I'd be interested in hearing what a Stake.com rep has to say about this. Being able to just revoke a perm self exclusion by a telegram discussion seems very weird. I'd think they'd at least allow an "Are You Sure?" period or something like that.

[Vod]

way, I'd be interested in hearing what a Stake.com rep has to say about this. Being able to just revoke a perm self exclusion by a telegram discussion seems very weird. I'd think they'd at least allow an "Are You Sure?" period or something like that.

He is not a stake.com rep.  His words are currently being sponsored by stake.com, and they told me they were aware of his ponzi scams.  Chances are stake.com is a collection area for his 2,600 stolen coin.  

[vennali]

~snip~

You do make a fair point but I think in the end it is up to the casino to deny you the service or not. You requested for a permanent casino ban and it is up to them to ban you or not. I can completely understand your addiction point of view. I have friends who have gone through the same phase. Even if it was one of my friends, and they had attempted to communicate with the casino's staff and requested unban and then tried to play casino games.. then its my friends issue and I would request him/her to seek medical assistance for their addiction. I will say the same to you. You have lost the BTC and ETH at your own volition. I would say that casinos and sportsbooks should have something to deter addicted gamblers. Bet365 has alerts for those. Not sure if anyone else does. Gambling addiction is no joke. There was some news I read recently that a man bet his wife with one of his friends and lost.

[Garmo]

~~~

~~~

I expect Stake to make this argument, that had I won,  we wouldn't be here.

That's the point tho.   We shouldn't be here.   I shouldn't have lost,  or won,  in the casino after completing their protocol for a permanent self casino ban.

What's your endgame here, then? Do you want those 13 BTC back? Are you warning others? What's the ultimatum behind this topic?

If it's the former, then you can kiss that sweet stack of whole BTCs good-bye. You ain't gonna see it again sitting in your wallet collecting dust. I agree that the blame isn't entirely on you, a small fraction of it is on the house itself for letting you off a self-ban that is supposed to be permanent. But you were fully conscientious of the typical risks of gambling, I don't think i need to spell it out for you.

You gave them the all-clear with those Telegram messages. Don't even dream of taking this to court, you'll be wasting both the owners and yourself's time.

If it's the latter, then I appreciate your altruism. But I'm curious, how did you get a hold of these 13 BTC and ETH? Sure hope you didn't drown yourself in debt pulling loans round-about. Are you an old miner, perhaps?

In any case, hope you get ahold of your self in these trying times, I know how bitter it must be to lose that kind of money. Best wishes.

[actmyname]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.

It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.

[Stakefast]

I had a discussion about stake and their banning ways with the owner too and I managed to get banned but I am still able to withdraw my affiliate earnings, works great for me since then.

You should honestly just stop gambling and move on, you seem like you could earn that btc back in no time Don't waste your time on gambling, I also have no self control and needed the ban but you shouldn't have asked for a liftoff in the first place.

Just keep away and maybe try to earn instead of wasting cryptos on such sites.

All the best buddy, you'll be good sooner or later. Don't worry too much, I lost a lot too and its a lesson for yourself. It will get better. The most important thing about gambling is: fun. If the fun stops, you should stop.Thats what I can tell you from my heart. I think about this everytime I go to a gambling site and it dramatically helped me, even though I still loose 500-1000$ on some days, its remembering about having more fun then greed because on sites like this its easy to just gamble a million $ away in a couple of seconds. Its very dangerous and tempting at the same time. You need to figure this out for yourself.

You always have to remember that even if you win a lot of money you will loose at the end because the won money will be deposited sooner or later again to the same casino. Its your mind which needs to get adjusted by yourself.

[RHavar]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent!

Is that a problem? If they make permanent bans/self-exclusions actually permanent, then there's nothing to exploit.


While it sounds like stake probably never should've unbanned the account -- if we're being realistic had stake not unbanned the account -- I am pretty the OP would've found a way to gamble either at stake on a new account, or at another casino.

Gambling addictions are no joke, I really hope the OP takes it seriously and gets the help he needs.  

[johnjimjack]

Gambling addictions are no joke, I really hope the OP takes it seriously and gets the help he needs.  

Everyone who is saying take responsibility and stop gambling doesn't understand the addiction part. Even if you happen to gamble yourself.
He did take responsibility. He asked for the ban. The addiction is what brought him back. Yes, he could have just made another account. That doesn't mean that stake didn't do wrong by him. They say they practice responsible gaming and should have stood by it. His name should have remained in place.

Op I'm sorry this happened to you. I have a pretty bad habit myself. I can. Admit I have a problem but I can't bring myself to even take this first step of self exclusion yet. Each day it seems to be getting closer and closer though. I hope you find the help you need and I find it as well.

[Pmalek]

I checked the Askgamblers thread that you linked in your OP and you don't mention those 13 bitcoins or 157 ethers there. You mention total deposits amounting to £640.54 and that you made withdrawals of £337.40. You asked for the difference of £303.14 to be returned to you and Askgamblers supported your case. They felt like you did enough to request permanent exclusion, so Stake paid out.

What is confusing me is why you are talking about 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH in this thread, but you requested and talked about litecoin transactions totaling £640 at Askgamblers?

You are honest about your gambling addiction, that's a good thing. I hope you find the mental help you need to defeat your demons. Tell me something else honestly. If the self-exclusion and ban was never lifted on your account, would you have created another Stake account or used another casino to gamble?

[Stakefast]

I checked the Askgamblers thread that you linked in your OP and you don't mention those 13 bitcoins or 157 ethers there. You mention total deposits amounting to £640.54 and that you made withdrawals of £337.40. You asked for the difference of £303.14 to be returned to you and Askgamblers supported your case. They felt like you did enough to request permanent exclusion, so Stake paid out.

What is confusing me is why you are talking about 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH in this thread, but you requested and talked about litecoin transactions totaling £640 at Askgamblers?

You are honest about your gambling addiction, that's a good thing. I hope you find the mental help you need to defeat your demons. Tell me something else honestly. If the self-exclusion and ban was never lifted on your account, would you have created another Stake account or used another casino to gamble?

I guess he is talking about the total volume of his gambling on stake.

If thats the case, I'm up for a refund of my 30 BTC and 460 ETH too
https://prnt.sc/zrwoj0

[wildan88]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent!

Is that a problem? If they make permanent bans/self-exclusions actually permanent, then there's nothing to exploit.


While it sounds like stake probably never should've unbanned the account -- if we're being realistic had stake not unbanned the account -- I am pretty the OP would've found a way to gamble either at stake on a new account, or at another casino.

Gambling addictions are no joke, I really hope the OP takes it seriously and gets the help he needs.  

Agree, Stake controls whether they leave themselves open to exploitation or not.


While your 2nd point is reasonable i dont think it relieves Stake of their responsibility.      Maybe they didnt want me gambling somewhere else ?


But ill use an analogy here...


Say  you own a bar...     and theres a drunk customer,  and you keep serving him and serving him,     he goes and has an accident of some kind...      do you think the defense of  "well if i didnt serve him, he would have found another way to drink"    would hold up?

The website stake.com probably doesn't care that much whether you have a gambling addiction or not. Their only concern is that you can continue to deposit as much as possible.
Is there no option on the platform that you can exclude your own so that you can no longer log in and therefore remain excluded via the system for that period?
If Stake did not allow this or did not comply with your request, then they have seriously broken the rules of the gambling license.

[coin.princess]

To summarize: Did you really lost 13 BTC from deposits or was 13 BTC the amount of bets you placed?
If you deposit 1 BTC and make 13 wagers, then you did not lost 13 BTC
Or play with 1 BTC and make it to 13 and then lost the 13 BTC is also another story.

[sempak]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.

It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.

What is this for nonsense reply?
Stake violated the rules and they should block and close the account, since he requested this.
What has this to do with exploiting?

[notblox1]

I think you should go and see a medical professional asap and you should accept responsibility for your actions.
I don't know what you expect from Stake or any other betting website, as they can't protect you from yourself if they enable you to use only sports betting and restrict access to casino and everything else.
People lose or win money on all games and not just in casinos, for example tonight Barcelona lost at home in Champions League from PSG and so many people got rekt except bookies, so you need to learn money management and self control when betting and only bet with money you are willing to lose.
I wish you all the best and get well soon.

[Stakefast]

To summarize: Did you really lost 13 BTC from deposits or was 13 BTC the amount of bets you placed?
If you deposit 1 BTC and make 13 wagers, then you did not lost 13 BTC
Or play with 1 BTC and make it to 13 and then lost the 13 BTC is also another story.

I can assue you the totals I have posted are losses in the casino after the permanent self casino ban,   not total wagers.

Here are my total wagers,  I know the difference ...


https://prnt.sc/zs0jbi

Okay, I see you really have a gambling problem. However. You can't just beg the owner of the casino to unlock your account again, get into your habit once again and piss away a million dollars and expect a refund after you got broke.

Its not how the gambling world works. Not even if they shouldnt unban your account. Its your fault and you need to face it like a man.

[magneto]

I do think that Stake is somewhat at fault here for revoking a clearly permanent ban. And I do think that they should at least take some responsibility for that.

However, from a more pragmatic standpoint, as actmyname said it is very unlikely that you're going to see your BTCs back any time soon.

Perhaps you should negotiate for a partial settlement, but that is likely the best-case outcome here. And by partial I don't mean half of the lost amount, probably way less.

[Cacingkemi]

He clearly stated to the site that he had a gambling addiction and that the site should block his account. this MUST respect the site and if a player requests this self-exclusion then the site must comply. His account should never be reopened, and Stake must pay back the money he lost after requesting the connection. I think you can also email the licensee about the situation.
Stake.com has had issues with its license 2 months ago, probably due to fraudulent activity through its site. Stake.com is therefore on the radar of the gambling committee in Curacao. I would work on it if I were you, it is a lot of money.

Stake.com is 100% wrong here, as they reopened the account, which is forbidden to do when its closed for gambling addiction.

[Haunebu]

I sympathize with op here. Stake is clearly at fault here based on the proof that op provided. It's like the casino ripped off a drunk customer and aren't claiming responsibility.

This is really unfortunate for op considering the fact that he lost huge amounts overall. I feel that he should be reimbursed the entire amount since it's Stake's fault. Next best option is to reimburse 50-75% of the amount.

Either way, op isn't at fault here. I hope Stake looks into this matter seriously and rectifies it by providing an appropriate solution asap.

[OgNasty]

To summarize: Did you really lost 13 BTC from deposits or was 13 BTC the amount of bets you placed?
If you deposit 1 BTC and make 13 wagers, then you did not lost 13 BTC
Or play with 1 BTC and make it to 13 and then lost the 13 BTC is also another story.

I can assure you the totals I have posted are losses in the casino after the permanent self casino ban,   not total wagers.

Here are my total wagers,  I know the difference ...


https://prnt.sc/zs0jbi

The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.

The best thing you can do is chalk it up to a learning experience and seek help for your addiction before it destroys your life beyond the loss of some crypto. If I’m wrong and you have a legitimate case then I wish you luck in whatever outcome is deserving.

[OgNasty]

To summarize: Did you really lost 13 BTC from deposits or was 13 BTC the amount of bets you placed?
If you deposit 1 BTC and make 13 wagers, then you did not lost 13 BTC
Or play with 1 BTC and make it to 13 and then lost the 13 BTC is also another story.

I can assure you the totals I have posted are losses in the casino after the permanent self casino ban,   not total wagers.

Here are my total wagers,  I know the difference ...


https://prnt.sc/zs0jbi

The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.

The best thing you can do is chalk it up to a learning experience and seek help for your addiction before it destroys your life beyond the loss of some crypto. If I’m wrong and you have a legitimate case then I wish you luck in whatever outcome is deserving.

Interesting point.  Take a look at this.    They say if you evade a self exclusion/ ban,   they have the right to keep the wager amount and any winnings.

So,  their position is, they wont be responsible for losses if you evade  (which I did not do)   and they wont pay winnings either.

Pretty advantageous terms for them.


https://prnt.sc/zs5a2m

That is indeed an interesting point. They excuse themselves from a lot of responsibility in the event that you gamble again with a different account, which from this screenshot alone looks like they do not address their liability in a situation where you are able to wager again through their inability to enforce the ban. While I don’t think that makes them liable, I guess that gives you an angle to try and justify a settlement. I suspect any payment would be made to show their commitment to address gambling addiction and not because they are at fault in any legal sense, which I don’t believe them to be. At best you could say their system malfunctioned and allowed you to gain access to wagers again leading to your losses, but I don’t think that excuses your personal responsibility. They could even argue you were taking advantage of a website malfunction and in essence hacking their system to try and profit.

[Stakefast]

From a gamblers perspective this would also be unfair to other gamblers on stake because you could also just won 100btc and be gone... the whole thing you are doing could be planned from the very beginning since you took all those screenshots of conversations with the support from the very beginning. I find it hard to believe that somebody would do this on a simple question, you didn’t had any problems back then with the support I guess.

Im not saying you did this on purpose but it kinda seems to me that way.

My guess is you lost a lot more before and you tried to either win it back or loose it all and plan a accusation like this.

[Stakefast]

Yikes if you think this would be a plan.   Quite a risky plan to lose a lot of money and hope and pray to get it back to break even.    Not a great plan


Also , I took screenshots now.   Support chats are kept on site.  You can scroll through all your chats.  



As a “stake player”   Seems like you should be aware of that

Im in the wrong then with the screenshots, sorry to accuse you with that but I am trying to understand why you wouldn’t stop earlier and invest the funds to be able to live off it completely passively for the rest of your life instead of just throwing it into a gigantic money shredder.

I guess it was needed to create yourself a lesson.

Or the money wasn’t acquired the „right“ way and you felt it has to go.

[Stakefast]

Yikes if you think this would be a plan.   Quite a risky plan to lose a lot of money and hope and pray to get it back to break even.    Not a great plan


Also , I took screenshots now.   Support chats are kept on site.  You can scroll through all your chats.  



As a “stake player”   Seems like you should be aware of that

Im in the wrong then with the screenshots, sorry to accuse you with that but I am trying to understand why you wouldn’t stop earlier and invest the funds to be able to live off it completely passively for the rest of your life instead of just throwing it into a already gigantic money shredder.

Consider yourself lucky to not understand gambling addiction , I envy you.  

I am still addicted and lost around 20,000$ (This was everything I had back then) on stake a year ago and it was devasting to me. Today I store my money at a very trustable business partner I worked a long time with. Since then I got more control over myself.

I am still gambling sometimes and I fall right into my habits again of firstly thinking „I can loose this money without the need to win it back if I do loose it“ but if I do actually loose it I still deposit again until my wallet is empty...

It’s not over yet for me but my friend helped me, without his help I’d be broke again a while ago already.

What also helped me was when I found out about different investments where my investment withdraw is freezed for atleast 72 hours. It’s like a barrier because even if I want to withdraw I need to wait 3 days, this often makes me overthink it when I am tempted to „throw“ everything I have into keno.

Everytime I got a win I am partly throwing some into such investments. Some of them are bankrolls of crypto casinos or streaming platforms such as Dlive with daily dividends.

[carlisle1]

Sorry if I wasn't clear,   there was a lot of info to share.


TL:DR

-I followed protocol and requested permanent self casino block via live chat - request was approved and casino was blocked

- Stake Owner removed permanent casino block after 1 TG message to him

- I again requested permanent casino block this time directly to owner,  and he blocked it

-Stake Owner again removed permanent casino block

- I lost a fuck ton more money in the casino

You are blaming them because you Lose a lot ? as they did not Banned you permanently ? is this what your claims means?

For me personally ? you must not blame anyone from your own mistake and addiction , it is you who asked several times so that means in your faith that they allow you to play again.

Just Move on man and better to try change your account password and recovery details using a very Hard to memorize one , then forget everything , so from then you can only play creating new account ( in which bannable offence) or never play at all.

Sorry for your sad story but we as gamblers has our own bad side also.

[purpleleaf]

The issue here isn't what OP would have done had the ban was not revoked. Would he have created another account, or would have gambled at some place? Those points are really moot. Its about what happened, and not IFs and buts.

Point is, Why was their "Permanent Casino Ban" revoked in the first place? When it was supposed to be permanent?
Gambling addiction's  real... And In this case it has really hurt op despite him doing the right thing, and asking for "Permanent ban".

And, its true, lot of places refuse the winnings if they find out you had requested a ban and came back to gamble again under an alt or something.

Instead of saying op was looking for free bets... What if it was Stake? They would have been protected by their TOS and could have rightly refused the winnings, and if he kept sinking the money and losing the money there's no question of payout.


All my sympathies to you OP, Hopefully you can settle this amicably with stake.

Its one of the good books out there, at least I think so. And where my major action's at anyways.

[Stunna]

Stakes position is that they “used poor judgement and should have served me better”   but there will be no compensation.  

I expect that from a shady casino like cloudbet not stake.  

I’m still hopeful someone at stake will look at the entire picture of what happened and reconsider.  

It seems contradictory to say they made poor judgement but are keeping all the proceeds from that poor judgement

This is definitely not a good look for Stake but I do think the complaint being laid out here is quite biased as well. This user first off lost the vast majority of those funds sportsbetting which they did not request a block from and almost all if not all the funds were earned from the stake affiliate program They were on a number of occasions encouraged to stop betting and stick to referring players to the casino but did not agree with doing a self exclusion. 

I find this claim a bit questionable given both the amounts claimed and because they were messaging me anonymously trying to build up this argument while continuing to bet under the impression that they would get reimbursed. If you were to make an unbiased claim you would have suggested that it would be the amount of money that you lost on the casino after this restriction was removed. It is very convenient but unfair argument to look at crypto prices being what they are and demanding all your historical losses back over the past year or two.

Last year this player specifically asked to have just the casino blocked, instead of your account fully restricted/banned. (full self exclusion). This was just a simple flag added to your account to block access to the casino.  Then they went to their VIP manager directly who you had a unique relationship with as a major affiliate and asked him to remove the flag.  Since this is not a self exclusion and has no surrounding protocol, he reluctantly obliged under pressure.

There was no ill intent here, even in your conversations you sent me you are repeatedly encouraged to stop spending all your affiliate earnings on Stake. Clearly some poor protocol and judgement on our side. With our self-exclusion system any player who goes through the correct process will never have their account unrestricted. As I stated in my previous messages to you, I recommended you cease gambling entirely when you told me you had issues with the casino only but were still sports betting, self exclusion really only works if a player is ceasing all gambling. This whole 'block casino only' thing was really just a incentive provided to the player when they asked. This however did not fall under the umbrella of the self-exclusion program which is perhaps an oversight.

Please see https://stake.com/policies/self-exclusion it was poor judgement on our side that we did not sooner ban your account when you were displaying issues with gambling, at many points you were encouraged to control your betting, it is obviously a challenging situation for both sides because you did not want to stop and would not have reacted well to having your account banned at that point.

There has already been an internal convo regarding all of this and we will make improvements to our protocol and we sincerely apologize for not serving you better. The decision to make is whether or not to weave blocking one part of the website into self-exclusion protocols or whether to just encourage full self exclusion only.

[Stunna]

Stakes position is that they “used poor judgement and should have served me better”   but there will be no compensation.  

I expect that from a shady casino like cloudbet not stake.  

I’m still hopeful someone at stake will look at the entire picture of what happened and reconsider.  

It seems contradictory to say they made poor judgement but are keeping all the proceeds from that poor judgement

This is definitely not a good look for Stake but I do think the complaint being laid out here is quite biased as well. This user first off lost the vast majority of those funds sportsbetting which they did not request a block from and almost all if not all the funds were earned from the stake affiliate program They were on a number of occasions encouraged to stop betting and stick to referring players to the casino but did not agree with doing a self exclusion.  

I find this claim a bit questionable given both the amounts claimed and because they were messaging me anonymously trying to build up this argument while continuing to bet under the impression that they would get reimbursed. If you were to make an unbiased claim you would have suggested that it would be the amount of money that you lost on the casino after this restriction was removed. It is very convenient but unfair argument to look at crypto prices being what they are and demanding all your historical losses back over the past year or two.

Last year this player specifically asked to have just the casino blocked, instead of your account fully restricted/banned. (full self exclusion). This was just a simple flag added to your account to block access to the casino.  Then they went to their VIP manager directly who you had a unique relationship with as a major affiliate and asked him to remove the flag.  Since this is not a self exclusion and has no surrounding protocol, he reluctantly obliged under pressure.

There was no ill intent here, even in your conversations you sent me you are repeatedly encouraged to stop spending all your affiliate earnings on Stake. Clearly some poor protocol and judgement on our side. With our self-exclusion system any player who goes through the correct process will never have their account unrestricted. As I stated in my previous messages to you, I recommended you cease gambling entirely when you told me you had issues with the casino only but were still sports betting, self exclusion really only works if a player is ceasing all gambling. This whole 'block casino only' thing was really just a incentive provided to the player when they asked. This however did not fall under the umbrella of the self-exclusion program which is perhaps an oversight.

Please see https://stake.com/policies/self-exclusion it was poor judgement on our side that we did not sooner ban your account when you were displaying issues with gambling, at many points you were encouraged to control your betting, it is obviously a challenging situation for both sides because you did not want to stop and would not have reacted well to having your account banned at that point.

There has already been an internal convo regarding all of this and we will make improvements to our protocol and we sincerely apologize for not serving you better. The decision to make is whether or not to weave blocking one part of the website into self-exclusion protocols or whether to just encourage full self exclusion only.

#1  The amount listed is the amount I have lost on the casino side since the first permanent exclusion.   It does not factor in sportsbook losses during this period.       So,  that's not biased at all.  Please run your numbers and verify.  I welcome it.  My claim is for casino losses only.    


#2  Where my funds came from is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.    It's as if you are saying my earned affiliate money is somehow exempt from rules  and shouldn't be treated as seriously as cash from another job?   I am under no obligation to deposit my affiliate cash and play,   nor was it the only source of deposited funds.  


#3   You said it was removed "under pressure"   that is blatantly false.   With your permission I will post the private telegram message showing my request to the owner as proof.


#4   Thank you for mentioning I was repeatedly advised to stop gambling.    I am glad to see you recognize my problem was known,  even before the permanent casino exclusion requests


#5  It is curious that my issues and requests were not taken seriously until this week when I finally raised a dispute


#6  You stated I did not want to stop.    Thats an odd thing to say to someone who multiple times requested a permanent casino ban.    As mentioned above,  it was finally taken serious this week after I raised a complaint and my account has been fully locked.    Since then,  I havent wagered a dime at stake or anywhere else.    


#7  You seem to imply Staked asked me if I wanted a full self exclusion.   That did happen one time,  this week,  after i raised my complaint.   NEVER happened prior to that.



When I approached Stake this week about my concerns,  I did not make a specific demand,  I laid out the situation of events,  told them of the struggle ive been going through.   I did not have specific expectations.  I was immediately dismissed,  basically told to get lost.

You raise some fair points, the crux of all of this is that we need to make improvements to our exclusion system and make it simple and straightforward. The only aspect of this I did not appreciate is the way you handled the actual complaint process where you apparently deleted your record of telegram messages and then sent me anonymous messages trying to pre-meditate this claim. Otherwise it would have been handled more amicably from my side. I will personally see that changes are made and update you on my progress.

[Stunna]

Stakes position is that they “used poor judgement and should have served me better”   but there will be no compensation.  

I expect that from a shady casino like cloudbet not stake.  

I’m still hopeful someone at stake will look at the entire picture of what happened and reconsider.  

It seems contradictory to say they made poor judgement but are keeping all the proceeds from that poor judgement

This is definitely not a good look for Stake but I do think the complaint being laid out here is quite biased as well. This user first off lost the vast majority of those funds sportsbetting which they did not request a block from and almost all if not all the funds were earned from the stake affiliate program They were on a number of occasions encouraged to stop betting and stick to referring players to the casino but did not agree with doing a self exclusion.  

I find this claim a bit questionable given both the amounts claimed and because they were messaging me anonymously trying to build up this argument while continuing to bet under the impression that they would get reimbursed. If you were to make an unbiased claim you would have suggested that it would be the amount of money that you lost on the casino after this restriction was removed. It is very convenient but unfair argument to look at crypto prices being what they are and demanding all your historical losses back over the past year or two.

Last year this player specifically asked to have just the casino blocked, instead of your account fully restricted/banned. (full self exclusion). This was just a simple flag added to your account to block access to the casino.  Then they went to their VIP manager directly who you had a unique relationship with as a major affiliate and asked him to remove the flag.  Since this is not a self exclusion and has no surrounding protocol, he reluctantly obliged under pressure.

There was no ill intent here, even in your conversations you sent me you are repeatedly encouraged to stop spending all your affiliate earnings on Stake. Clearly some poor protocol and judgement on our side. With our self-exclusion system any player who goes through the correct process will never have their account unrestricted. As I stated in my previous messages to you, I recommended you cease gambling entirely when you told me you had issues with the casino only but were still sports betting, self exclusion really only works if a player is ceasing all gambling. This whole 'block casino only' thing was really just a incentive provided to the player when they asked. This however did not fall under the umbrella of the self-exclusion program which is perhaps an oversight.

Please see https://stake.com/policies/self-exclusion it was poor judgement on our side that we did not sooner ban your account when you were displaying issues with gambling, at many points you were encouraged to control your betting, it is obviously a challenging situation for both sides because you did not want to stop and would not have reacted well to having your account banned at that point.

There has already been an internal convo regarding all of this and we will make improvements to our protocol and we sincerely apologize for not serving you better. The decision to make is whether or not to weave blocking one part of the website into self-exclusion protocols or whether to just encourage full self exclusion only.

#1  The amount listed is the amount I have lost on the casino side since the first permanent exclusion.   It does not factor in sportsbook losses during this period.       So,  that's not biased at all.  Please run your numbers and verify.  I welcome it.  My claim is for casino losses only.    


#2  Where my funds came from is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.    It's as if you are saying my earned affiliate money is somehow exempt from rules  and shouldn't be treated as seriously as cash from another job?   I am under no obligation to deposit my affiliate cash and play,   nor was it the only source of deposited funds.  


#3   You said it was removed "under pressure"   that is blatantly false.   With your permission I will post the private telegram message showing my request to the owner as proof.


#4   Thank you for mentioning I was repeatedly advised to stop gambling.    I am glad to see you recognize my problem was known,  even before the permanent casino exclusion requests


#5  It is curious that my issues and requests were not taken seriously until this week when I finally raised a dispute


#6  You stated I did not want to stop.    Thats an odd thing to say to someone who multiple times requested a permanent casino ban.    As mentioned above,  it was finally taken serious this week after I raised a complaint and my account has been fully locked.    Since then,  I havent wagered a dime at stake or anywhere else.    


#7  You seem to imply Staked asked me if I wanted a full self exclusion.   That did happen one time,  this week,  after i raised my complaint.   NEVER happened prior to that.



When I approached Stake this week about my concerns,  I did not make a specific demand,  I laid out the situation of events,  told them of the struggle ive been going through.   I did not have specific expectations.  I was immediately dismissed,  basically told to get lost.

You raise some fair points, the crux of all of this is that we need to make improvements to our exclusion system and make it simple and straightforward. The only aspect of this I did not appreciate is the way you handled the actual complaint process where you apparently deleted your record of telegram messages and then sent me anonymous messages trying to pre-meditate this claim. Otherwise it would have been handled more amicably from my side. I will personally see that changes are made and update you on my progress.

In other words,  sorry we made mistakes and used poor judgement,  but we will be keeping all proceeds from these mistakes

I'm unable to even be more thorough in my correspondence and even make a fair argument because you have screenshotted what you wanted and then deleted all other logs.

[Stunna]

You did not self-exclude from the website.

You turned down the self-exclusion program and asked support to basically have the casino inaccessible to you which is not apart of self exclusion. Then you went directly to your VIP manager to have that flag removed in the future. Stake has never had any formal protocol around this block casino flag that was asked for by a few sports players. Our self exclusion policy can be found here. https://stake.com/policies/self-exclusion We do not differentiate sports betting & casino betting as different forms of gambling. If you have a problem then both should be avoided.

Also I've identified that you had been using multiple accounts on casino the entire time even recently so I do not see how even if we had done this readily if it would have been preventative enough. What is clear to me is that the entire self-exclusion process should be a self-service system and involve a ban of the entire platform.

[RHavar]

I guess the part I struggle with, is assuming stake (incorrectly) allowed you to gamble again ... does that really make them responsible for the (direct) course of actions that happened after (i.e. you losing your money)?

I honestly don't know, I feel like I can make a strong argument both ways. But I don't really think a public forum is an ideal way to solve an issue like this. I notice in Stake's Terms of Service they offer the option to seek arbitration with the Hong Kong International Arbitration Centre.  If you can't reach an amicable solution, it seems like it might be best to let a 3rd party decide?

[Haunebu]

They could have made a good faith offer of a small percent of the casino losses back, both sides admitting some responsibility and mistakes and they still would have profited an obscene amount off of this ordeal ,  but no.  

In the end I’m powerless.  But I honestly expected way more from stake and the people behind it.

It's disappointing to see one of the top Stake gamblers being treated like this despite the proof that you provided. I expected them to return a portion of your funds at the very least, but I was wrong clearly.

I still like Stake, but this case made me lose a good deal of respect for them. I advise you not to trust gambling sites regarding anything blindly. Instead, focus on trying to control your own gambling addiction.

[vennali]

Also I've identified that you had been using multiple accounts on casino the entire time even recently so I do not see how even if we had done this readily if it would have been preventative enough.

Can’t sleep.  

This is incredibly disappointing that you are making statements like this.  

The owner knew I had multiple accounts from long before my casino exclusion request

I made them before I fully understood clients seeds and provably fair.   I used to think one account would be luckier than another.  

Those accounts were dormant and fully known by the owner when he asked me to use them for affiliate payments and another for a different type of credit separate from my main account because he said it made accounting and book keeping easier.

And now you want to try to paint it like the  accounts were unknown and it wouldn’t have mattered ?


Had I used another account to evade the ban I would have no claim.  But that’s not what happened.  

I honestly can’t believe I’m dealing with this from Stake.  Literally the last casino I’d ever expect this from.  

Since you know the owners. I think this could be solved by simply talking to them. Over the phone or whatever means both parties are comfortable with. The mudslinging festival for public to see and aren't fully aware of the terms/circumstances is kinda pointless, other than the defaming each other aspect.

[EnF0Rc3r]

Dude, if you really have a gambling addiction, you should've requested Self- Exclusion. Gambling on sports is still gambling, not much different than casino.

Casino- Exclusion is not regulated and it is not in their policies. They are probably offering that so the players can cool off after a bad streak or smth and they have no obligation to honor that Casino- Exclusion since it's not regulated. They can simply do what the player wants/ requests.

But the Self- Exclusion is something completely different. If this was the Self- Exclusion instead of Casino- Exclusion, you would have a case.

Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but as one of the previous posts said, you should take responsibility for your actions. 

[Garmo]

Your self exclusion policy you keep pointing to has been updated multiple times since my initial request.  

I did not create the self casino ban option.  It existed.   On your site.  And I asked for a permanent one.


I think the facts are clear.  


Stakes official position is we made mistakes and poor judgement and will be keeping all funds.  

Do you deny the fact that you have, two times in a row, personally contacted and pressured the VIP host into removing the self-administered ban YOU have imposed upon yourself? Yes or no question.

At this point, there is not much to be discussed anymore. YOU had requested the ban be lifted from you TWICE. The casino is not responsible for your destructive addictions. Had you not had a 'special' relationship with the owner, things might've gone differently, but you have exploited that relationship to get your way around. Then you come here all surprised and 'woe-is-me' that you've lost it all.
 
YOU are the CULPRIT. The thought of gambling away 0.05 BTC wouldn't even cross my mind, let alone 13 BTC. Better stick to your affiliate income from now on, that's something I wish I had.

[leea-1334]

Fair points on both sides, but I think the laws in developed countries would simply ask that the casino enforce the "permanent" ban. It is the right of the gambler to ask for this,,, and if he had bypassed by making another account then it would be on him. I think it is just a issue of ethicality that casinos are not allowed to take advantage of people with gambling problems.

I agree on one hand it is an individual problem but if the individual has come forth to say he has this problem,,, then the casino must do its part to help the individual. Sad case always and I do not think anybody is wrong here.

This is not a 13 BTC complaint however. It is a complaint on enforcement of ban situation.

[Cacingkemi]

The best way to solve is to come to an agreement, where the user will get at least something from his deposits back.
If Stake.com is refusing, you should contact the master license holder. If they are not responding, write the gambling commission in Curacao.

[BitcoinAccepted]

Your self exclusion policy you keep pointing to has been updated multiple times since my initial request.  

I did not create the self casino ban option.  It existed.   On your site.  And I asked for a permanent one.


I think the facts are clear.  


Stakes official position is we made mistakes and poor judgement and will be keeping all funds.  

Do you deny the fact that you have, two times in a row, personally contacted and pressured the VIP host into removing the self-administered ban YOU have imposed upon yourself? Yes or no question.

At this point, there is not much to be discussed anymore. YOU had requested the ban be lifted from you TWICE. The casino is not responsible for your destructive addictions. Had you not had a 'special' relationship with the owner, things might've gone differently, but you have exploited that relationship to get your way around. Then you come here all surprised and 'woe-is-me' that you've lost it all.
 
YOU are the CULPRIT. The thought of gambling away 0.05 BTC wouldn't even cross my mind, let alone 13 BTC. Better stick to your affiliate income from now on, that's something I wish I had.

If someone has an addiction, it is in line with expectations that they will ask again to have their account reopened. That is why it is also called an addiction.

If the user has indicated that he should be banned for gambling addiction, it is the responsibility of the site that the account should not be reopened under any reason.

And at the very least, a certain duration must be maintained.

The user should then be given the choice of how long their account will be closed, but if someone with a gambling addiction requests an exclusion, this should be taken seriously by the site at all times and the account may

not be reopened. These are also the rules of the gambling committee in Curacao.

Stake.com made a mistake here by reopening the same account. If they were new accounts, it would be the player's responsibility and problem. As far as I can judge here it is the same account, and if so then stake.com

must resolve and return the amount, or at least part of it.

[RichGang]

i wasted my time to read trash. so u came to a casino. played and then lost then u came complaining? what if you won, will u have opened this thread? wth due respect you are a capitalk idiot.
idiots like this guy should not be given attention please

[RichGang]

So, What I'm contouring from the situation at hand here is that, after requesting a permanent self-administered Casino ban for a period of time because of gambling issues, it is incredibly easy to lift this ban from yourself without much challenge or contestation. And that it should be a permanent ban that shouldn't be removed for any given reason, even if your life depended on it? Did I understand that correctly?

If so, then absolutely. The owners or the people hosting you shouldn't have removed the restriction that easily, and the fact they even acknowledged your self-control issues honestly just makes it all worse. They should've, at the least, explained what each type of ban indicates and what both of them entail.

When I asked for the initial casino ban,  they asked me if I wanted it for a period of time or permanent,  I said permanent, and they approved the request for permanent self casino ban.



They now argue permanent doesn't really mean permanent  and are now arguing a new policy that was not in place at that time.

pure trash you talking man. stop abusing meth

[RichGang]

The best way to solve is to come to an agreement, where the user will get at least something from his deposits back.
If Stake.com is refusing, you should contact the master license holder. If they are not responding, write the gambling commission in Curacao.

Thats not something Im interested in pursuing.     I appreciate the insight tho.

so what are u surprising. a full refund?
i hope eddie dosnt give u a dime
this is the dumbest player i have ever encountered

[RichGang]

To summarize: Did you really lost 13 BTC from deposits or was 13 BTC the amount of bets you placed?
If you deposit 1 BTC and make 13 wagers, then you did not lost 13 BTC
Or play with 1 BTC and make it to 13 and then lost the 13 BTC is also another story.

there is no rule that says u must type. i thought op was dumb but you came here to dispay a new level of dumb

[s0lidus]

It's hard to judge on the internet, but if you really have a gambling problem, find professional help. A casino can do a lot, they can exclude you, ban you, but you'll always find a way to get back in, which you've done with different accounts according to Stunna. And if you can't, you'll just find yourself another place to gamble.



Here is a website for professional help:

Gambling Therapy – https://www.gamblingtherapy.org

[RichGang]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.

It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.

What is this for nonsense reply?
Stake violated the rules and they should block and close the account, since he requested this.
What has this to do with exploiting?

no rules where violated. it is clearly stated that u can come back after some time if you wish. you get permanently banned aftr some time. op is not getting a dime.

[Yogee]

We do not differentiate sports betting & casino betting as different forms of gambling. If you have a problem then both should be avoided.

Why are you saying the complete opposite now that I have raised a complaint ?  

Greetings,   I am considering moving my action to Stake,  but at times i struggle with self control in the casino.  

 If I ask for a permanent ban in the casino and to only bet on sports
#1 Will that ban be granted?
#2 Is there any condition that it would be removed once granted?
#3 Hypothetically, if for any reason it was removed, and I lost more money in casino, what would happen?

Ty for your time

1. Yes, you can self exclude on the casino but still bet on sports. Support can help you do this, there are a fair few sports bettors that have done this.
2. It will not be removed if process is followed correctly and a permanent restriction is requested.
3. It really depends on the circumstance but our strict policy is not to remove self-exclusion. Has this happened for you elsewhere?

https://prnt.sc/znino6

You were upset that I contacted you anonymously and asked,   but it seems I had good reason to.   

Maybe someone can volunteer and determine who is lying. dancpats, are you willing to let any neutral and known or trusted member from this community to look into your private messages and verify your claim? Do you also have proof that Stake have prior knowledge of your multi-accounts?

[rohang]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.

It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.

There have been quite some instances where books have returned the funds, thats why NO reputable book will overturn a permanent self exclusion

edit: i can look up some threads on gambling mediator websites, but anyone who has read situations like OP will know in most cases. books are forced to return the $ lost IF its a reputed,regulated book.

[wildan88]

It's hard to judge on the internet, but if you really have a gambling problem, find professional help. A casino can do a lot, they can exclude you, ban you, but you'll always find a way to get back in, which you've done with different accounts according to Stunna. And if you can't, you'll just find yourself another place to gamble.



Here is a website for professional help:

Gambling Therapy – https://www.gamblingtherapy.org

That's the whole point. He has only used 1 account and has not created any other accounts. That this is indicated by Stake.com seems to be an excuse to wash their hands in innocence. A mediator could be involved, an external party. Certainly NOT someone from the forum, that is extremely unreliable. Bodies such as the pogg are known intermediaries or SBR.

[purpleleaf]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.

It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.

There have been quite some instances where books have returned the funds, thats why NO reputable book will overturn a permanent self exclusion

Thats the thing.  Stake is attempting to say a permanent self casino ban is different, and they have no obligation to honor it...  despite offering it as an option on their site,  despite asking me if i wanted a permanent casino ban or for a set period of time.    Despite confirming that I was approved for a permanent self casino ban.


What a thing to argue.

True. It doesn't look right on Stake's part.

It was a permanent ban, and not a "Whims and fancy" ban.

[Garmo]

I'm just convinced this is an elaborate troll job at this point. The staff said they're going to correct their "mistake," and he's not getting a whiff of the funds he bummed out on gambling. What's he elongating this thread for anymore?

[MICRO]

The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.

What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.

Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.

We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.

There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.

So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.

[MICRO]

The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.

What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.

Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.

We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.

There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.

So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.

https://prnt.sc/znicwi

https://prnt.sc/znig7r

https://prnt.sc/znino6


Thanks for your input,  but as you can see above i followed the correct protocol in place at the time.

You can keep playing games with words and meanings,  but the intent is clear.

No you did not. Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.

You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.

[rohang]

The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.

What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.

Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.

We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.

There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.

So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.

https://prnt.sc/znicwi

https://prnt.sc/znig7r

https://prnt.sc/znino6


Thanks for your input,  but as you can see above i followed the correct protocol in place at the time.

You can keep playing games with words and meanings,  but the intent is clear.

No you did not. Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.

You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.

im sorry what ?

the user clearly , from his screenshots, requested a PERMANENT ban from casino , your support approved it..

was the user informed about this fact that " Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion." at that time ? or only now u are pulling this arguement ?

[MICRO]

The thing is that he did not ask for self exclusion. He did not follow self exclusion policy. If he did he would be permanently banned and would never had a chance to be unbanned.

What he did with his vip host asking for casino ban then asking to remove it etc was all unofficial and without any policy being followed. It was just good will on his vip host to help him out and fulfill his request for casino exclusion.

Also user had multiple accounts so even if he excluded 1 of his accounts by the policy he would continue to gamble on his other accounts or create new ones.

We are very responsible when it comes to gambling and being aware of the dangers of it. But unfortunately the simple fact is that casinos can only do so much to help you. If you want to continue gambling there is nothing any casino can do to rly stop you.

There are tons of crypto, fiat and real casinos where you can continue gambling even if one casino could find a way to stop you for good.

So please be responsible and if you notice you have problem with gambling seek for professional who will help you fight your addiction.

https://prnt.sc/znicwi

https://prnt.sc/znig7r

https://prnt.sc/znino6


Thanks for your input,  but as you can see above i followed the correct protocol in place at the time.

You can keep playing games with words and meanings,  but the intent is clear.

No you did not. Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.

You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.

Stake has stated they were aware of my gambling issues,  encouraged me not to gamble,   but did nothing   because "I wouldnt have liked it"

I request permanent self casino exclusions after Stake is aware of my issues

Stake removes it with one casual TG message

Admits poor judgement

Keeps all funds.



Have I got your position correct ? 



And why does every Stake admin in this thread keep ignoring this?

https://prnt.sc/znino6


Clearly says players can request a casino exclusion and it will be honored and not removed if protocol is followed,  which at the time was to request via live chat.   

As you can see when that message was posted. It was after this case. We are improving our exclusion policy and because of this case we are making it so if user requires casino exclusion and follows the protocol how to request it won't be possible to remove it. 

Also the screenshot you posted with support agent Andrija, you did not make from your account that you are arguing about here.

On this account you requested it from your vip host and then also requested from your vip host to be removed.

And also you had one more request 6 months ago where after cool off period of 24h you said to "Leave casino unblocked"


We have said everything here.  I wont be continuing in this topic.

If you wanted to stop gambling you would need to follow simple procedure to get your account permanently banned as per our policy.

I am sorry that unfortunately even that wouldn't be enough to stop you from gambling or our casino or any other casino.

As stunna mentioned we will keep improving our policies and we will always try to help our users with gambling problems to find solutions and stop gambling.

[Haunebu]

At this point, I don't think you will receive any portion of your funds op which is why I feel it's best for you to learn from this situation and move on.

Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.

You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.

What you are stating here makes no sense. If there was no possibility of a complete casino ban, you should have explained that to the gambler properly and you shouldn't have granted his wish.

You should have clearly warned him regarding this issue early on. Stake is wrong here for these reasons while Dancpats is wrong due to his inability to control his gambling addiction.

[MICRO]

At this point, I don't think you will receive any portion of your funds op which is why I feel it's best for you to learn from this situation and move on.

Self exclusion is not same as casino exclusion. We do not have policy for casino exclusion that was only option for our sportsbook players that wanted to clear the clutter with casino and games and only be able to play on sportsbook because that is what they came for on stake.

You clearly stated you do not want your account banned.

What you are stating here makes no sense. If there was no possibility of a complete casino ban, you should have explained that to the gambler properly and you shouldn't have granted his wish.

You should have clearly warned him regarding this issue early on. Stake is wrong here for these reasons while Dancpats is wrong due to his inability to control his gambling addiction.

We are sorry that his vip host removed his casino ban that was indeed wrong, he asked from him to set that ban and his host told him its all set but also let me know if you change your mind.
And we are sorry that he removed his ban after that. If it was me I wouldn't do it. But his host did not break any of our policies.

We are improving our policies and making sure that things like this don't happen again. But it is users responsibility to read TOS and follow the procedures especially with very important and sensitive stuff like this.

[iamsheikhadil]

I really don't know whether to laugh or be mad at you. So what you are complaining is basically, indirectly it's stake's fault that you lost that much amount of money because they removed your self-exclusion? That makes zero sense as, you could easily create another account and gamble it all away. Or you might have gone to other casinos and gambled and lost there. Again, it was you who asked to remove the ban. I agree that stake is maybe at fault of letting you play there again after your permanent ban request, but that doesn't mean they forced you to play? Question is, would you have complained had you won rather than losing? Stake also should make sure they actually reinforce bans properly and not allow permanent banned members to play at their site again.

[Garmo]

What is this thread supposed to be, then? Christ, you are incompetent. We are just going in circles.
Also, could you stop with the double spaces?

[wildan88]

I really don't know whether to laugh or be mad at you. So what you are complaining is basically, indirectly it's stake's fault that you lost that much amount of money because they removed your self-exclusion? That makes zero sense as, you could easily create another account and gamble it all away. Or you might have gone to other casinos and gambled and lost there. Again, it was you who asked to remove the ban. I agree that stake is maybe at fault of letting you play there again after your permanent ban request, but that doesn't mean they forced you to play? Question is, would you have complained had you won rather than losing? Stake also should make sure they actually reinforce bans properly and not allow permanent banned members to play at their site again.

What you write does not make sense. He has clearly indicated that it concerns 1 account. And yes, if he had created other accounts and lost money with them, it would have been his own fault. But that is not the case. The point is that he used 1 account, and that Stake.com should have kept this account closed. It should never have been reopened. A gambling addiction must be taken seriously by every gambling site and stake is also required to comply with this due to rules of the gambling committee. I think you have a strong case if you want to keep this going. It's about too much money.

[EnF0Rc3r]

I really don't know whether to laugh or be mad at you. So what you are complaining is basically, indirectly it's stake's fault that you lost that much amount of money because they removed your self-exclusion? That makes zero sense as, you could easily create another account and gamble it all away. Or you might have gone to other casinos and gambled and lost there. Again, it was you who asked to remove the ban. I agree that stake is maybe at fault of letting you play there again after your permanent ban request, but that doesn't mean they forced you to play? Question is, would you have complained had you won rather than losing? Stake also should make sure they actually reinforce bans properly and not allow permanent banned members to play at their site again.

What you write does not make sense. He has clearly indicated that it concerns 1 account. And yes, if he had created other accounts and lost money with them, it would have been his own fault. But that is not the case. The point is that he used 1 account, and that Stake.com should have kept this account closed. It should never have been reopened. A gambling addiction must be taken seriously by every gambling site and stake is also required to comply with this due to rules of the gambling committee. I think you have a strong case if you want to keep this going. It's about too much money.

Just lol dude, by backing him up you are basically saying that gambling on sports is not gambling while gambling on casino is gambling. If he has a gambling addiction then that goes for gambling in general, not just gambling on casino, no? You guys are just ridiculous lol

I mean don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck with this case but you are just wasting your time man.

[Get-Paid.com]

I mean don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck with this case but you are just wasting your time man.

Absolutely not.
If you have 0 knowledge in this field please save your opinion to yourself.

The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.

Your hypothetical scenario shouldn't have taken place in the first place.
Proper gambling sites don't allow a self-excluded account to be reopened, period.

If a user opens a 2nd account with an attempt to circumvent the system - then and only then - the user is 100% at fault.

I had a similar case with a much smaller website and they did pay me after I started legal proceedings against them.

Stake must not repeat that mistake and if they want to keep their reputation high they need to pay the user or reach a settlement.

We are sorry that his vip host removed his casino ban that was indeed wrong

Normally and ethically, such "sorry" should be accompanied with a settlement. It's not enough to say sorry after having such an incident.

[Maasdamer]

I mean don't get me wrong, I wish you the best of luck with this case but you are just wasting your time man.

Absolutely not.
If you have 0 knowledge in this field please save your opinion to yourself.

The ultimate question (besides my curiosity of how someone who would gamble away 13 BTC could have amassed such an amount) is if you were to have won dozens of BTC after your self casino ban, would you have been OK with Stake.com refusing to pay out the winnings because you should have been banned? I suspect your answer would be no. Certainly in that situation you would have a much better argument that would lead to more people supporting you.

Your hypothetical scenario shouldn't have taken place in the first place.
Proper gambling sites don't allow a self-excluded account to be reopened, period.

If a user opens a 2nd account with an attempt to circumvent the system - then and only then - the user is 100% at fault.

I had a similar case with a much smaller website and they did pay me after I started legal proceedings against them.

Stake must not repeat that mistake and if they want to keep their reputation high they need to pay the user or reach a settlement.

We are sorry that his vip host removed his casino ban that was indeed wrong

Normally and ethically, such "sorry" should be accompanied with a settlement. It's not enough to say sorry after having such an incident.

First of all stake officially says there are no multiple accounts allowed, him opening a new one should trigger their "sophisticated security system" and he shouldn't be allowed to play.
Still stake forum mods/admin several times wrote in the forum that multiple accounts are allowed.
And stake 1 person doesn't know what the other one is doing, little bit ridiculous.

They blocked my account because they suspected me to have 1 more account and it was such a big deal. Waited more than 7 days (without reply) for ID verification and then finally I got my account back.
Very bad experience I must say.

[RichGang]

All what these idiots are ranting here is just plan stupid. If the guy won 13btc he should be paid. I stopped backing up all these guys that come to btc to scream once they get scammed because I gain nothing from it. What's the point assisiting someone get back hundreds of thousands when I get nothing in return.
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money

[janggernaut]

All what these idiots are ranting here is just plan stupid. If the guy won 13btc he should be paid. I stopped backing up all these guys that come to btc to scream once they get scammed because I gain nothing from it. What's the point assisiting someone get back hundreds of thousands when I get nothing in return.
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money

Idk the reason you pump this thread, but based on OP, we know if OP didn't won anything from stake

(The 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH is the amount I have lost in their casino since the permanent self casino ban was approved and issued to my account)

It was only because he keep depositing after his ban request then started to lose because of he is addicted of gambling. Judging from the amount, he certainly feel regret to gamble his money i think.

[RichGang]

All what these idiots are ranting here is just plan stupid. If the guy won 13btc he should be paid. I stopped backing up all these guys that come to btc to scream once they get scammed because I gain nothing from it. What's the point assisiting someone get back hundreds of thousands when I get nothing in return.
Well back to the main issue. Stake has no reason to steal a players money

Idk the reason you pump this thread, but based on OP, we know if OP didn't won anything from stake

(The 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH is the amount I have lost in their casino since the permanent self casino ban was approved and issued to my account)

It was only because he keep depositing after his ban request then started to lose because of he is addicted of gambling. Judging from the amount, he certainly feel regret to gamble his money i think.

and u came in 10days later to bump it up like a retard huh?

[ChrG]

Hi, I found this thread when searching around regarding Stake and their responsible gaming "process".

I was in what I think a similar situation(although not a lot of money) , where I requested an account closure due to gambling problem, but stake instead forced a Cooling Down period on me, letting me log in again after that period.

It is sad to read, that they defend this way of dealing with responsible gaming, and put it on the player to be responsible. They can not understand the situation they create, and is worrying. Its the only casino that have not acted on an account closure request, so please be aware of playing on this site..

More info on the separate issue here https://casino.guru/stake-casino-player-s-attempt-to-self-exclude-from