My 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH complaint against Stake.com

[dancpats]

I do not believe this was a scam attempt, obviously, and didn't belong in that forum,  but at the same time I believe it deserves it's own thread for discussion and hopefully a resolution.


Casino:  Stake.com
Owner(s):  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=81292
Amount:  13.02 BTC  & 157 ETH



I am a problem gambler with self control issues,   and on 6 June 2020  I requested and received approval for a PERMANENT self casino ban at Stake.com

Proof #1:  
https://prnt.sc/znicwi

Proof #2:
https://prnt.sc/znig7r



This "permanent"   self casino ban was later removed at my request with 1 telegram message


I then requested another permanent self casino ban on 23 September 2020  and it was granted/approved by the owner directly since he is my VIP host.

I will post the proof of this if it is requested by or disputed by Stake,   it's a private telegram message and I would like to respect his privacy.



This request was also removed and I was able to play in the casino again.  


Proof that I have been able to bet in the casino as recent as last week:
https://prnt.sc/znijh5




I tried to resolve this privately with Stake but was told  "you would have just made another account to evade the ban"

After realizing this was a poor argument to make,   they said  I only requested a permanent self casino ban  and not a self exclusion.

I agree, I did,  multiple times, and it was granted.  But they are trying to play word games saying a permanent self casino ban is somehow different than self exclusion.   This feels like a bad faith argument to make,  and I would ask Stake what their interpretation of a permanent self casino ban is exactly?


Here is Stake.com referring to the process being to request via live chat and that self exclusions are never removed for any reason what so ever, in another complaint on another site.   This is around the same time as my initial request,  months before they updated the procedure

https://prnt.sc/zqko9s

https://prnt.sc/zqjero

link to dispute:  https://www.askgamblers.com/casino-complaints/stake-casino-failure-to-close-account-and-follow-responsible-gambling-regulations





I also confirmed with one of the other owners that its allowed to request only a permanent self casino ban and still play sports,  and if it would be removed for any reason..

He told me, yes I am allowed,  and that they have a fair amount of players who do exactly that.   He said it would not be removed for any reason,  and that it is their strictly policy to never remove a self ban/exclusion request

Proof:  
https://prnt.sc/znino6



I also have countless messages with the owner (my vip host)  where he acknowledged my gambling problem prior to me requesting the permanent casino bans,   so any argument about not knowing,  or not having enough info to determine if i was a problem gambler would be insincere.   It is also irrelevant if they knew or not,  I explicitly asked for a permanented casino ban multiple times and was approved each time.

I will post these messages as well if requested by Stake, or if they dispute having knowledge.  



Some of us are able to control themselves and others like me struggle with it big time, and when we go through the stated process to request self casino exclusions/bans/ whatever word you want to use,   this is where the responsibility of the casino comes in.


It seems disingenuous at best to try to dissect the terms "permanent self casino ban"  and "permanent self exclusion"  and argue they are different and to then refer to a new policy that was not in place at the time of my initial request.  


I do not like that I had to post this for public view,  and it hurts me to cast Stake in a negative light because I genuinely like so many of the people there and think they are likely the most reputable and safe (for your funds) crypto site online , nor do I believe there were any ill or bad intentions when the self bans were removed,  however it was still a mistake and extremely poor judgement,  and should be corrected, but not at my expense.  




(The 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH is the amount I have lost in their casino since the permanent self casino ban was approved and issued to my account)

[janggernaut]

Does anyone understand what is OP trying to say on here or is it just me who confused what's actually going on here?

[Aki176]

I think not only you, I'm confusing as well :p. However, I think what OP trying to say is he want a permanent casino ban on stake and they didn't do that (or they did but then remove it).

[ralle14]

Does anyone understand what is OP trying to say on here or is it just me who confused what's actually going on here?

To make it simple OP asked for a permanent self exclusion but it didn't work since his vip host was able to remove it via telegram if im not mistaken.

And then there was a misunderstanding as OP was always reaching out to his vip host instead of the live support for this issue which was already mentioned in one of the screenshots below. 

[Garmo]

So, What I'm contouring from the situation at hand here is that, after requesting a permanent self-administered Casino ban for a period of time because of gambling issues, it is incredibly easy to lift this ban from yourself without much challenge or contestation. And that it should be a permanent ban that shouldn't be removed for any given reason, even if your life depended on it? Did I understand that correctly?

If so, then absolutely. The owners or the people hosting you shouldn't have removed the restriction that easily, and the fact they even acknowledged your self-control issues honestly just makes it all worse. They should've, at the least, explained what each type of ban indicates and what both of them entail.

[cabron]

I don't get it. You requested permaban because you have gambling issues and then when you are banned, you didn't take your funds out?  I'm not sure how stake.com works though so excuse my ignorance here.  If you have gambling issues so why not just get your funds out there.

But since you still try sports, then I guess you weren't banned at all and you still have not controlled yourself.

[plen]

I'm confused about this part:

I then requested another permanent self casino ban on 23 September 2020  and it was granted/approved by the owner directly since he is my VIP host.

I will post the proof of this if it is requested by or disputed by Stake,   it's a private telegram message and I would like to respect his privacy.

This request was also removed and I was able to play in the casino again.

What transpired such that the request was removed again? Did you speak with someone or was it just working again somehow?

[purpleleaf]

After realizing this was a poor argument to make,   they said  I only requested a permanent self casino ban  and not a self exclusion.

As far as I understand, you didn't want the self exclusion from stake coz you wanted to bet on sports section of theirs.

But you lost the said amount on their casino section post revocation of the "permanent casino ban".

If that's the case, the ban shouldn't have been rescinded that easily with just a simple message.

[OgNasty]

I don't enjoy admitting I am a degenerate with no self control,   I think most guys who request a self casino ban eventually ask for it to be removed,  but its the casino's responsibility not to do so after the process of requesting a permanent casino ban has been completed.

I am sorry for your situation.  It seems you realize that you have a problem and that is a great first step.  The next step will be accepting personal responsibility for your actions.  I don't know if a casino is required by law to ban users at their request.  That seems a bit far fetched, but I'm no expert.  If that were the case, should cigarette companies refuse to sell cigarettes to buyers that are addicted to nicotine?  Should we be burning Starbucks down because they sell coffee to repeat customers?  I don't think so.  Should Stake.com have left you banned?  Probably.  Do you have a valid complaint against Stake.com?  It doesn't appear so.  It appears you lost a lot of money from some bad bets and are now angry about it.  I don't think you have a valid complaint.  I also think had you won money instead of lost, you would be happy now.  If how you look at someone's actions is dependent upon a random outcome then I think you have other problems then this. 

I am curious where someone with these types of issues handling money would get 13 BTC.

[plen]

I'm confused about this part:

I then requested another permanent self casino ban on 23 September 2020  and it was granted/approved by the owner directly since he is my VIP host.

I will post the proof of this if it is requested by or disputed by Stake,   it's a private telegram message and I would like to respect his privacy.

This request was also removed and I was able to play in the casino again.

What transpired such that the request was removed again? Did you speak with someone or was it just working again somehow?

I again requested it to be removed via telegram.


I don't enjoy admitting I am a degenerate with no self control,   I think most guys who request a self casino ban eventually ask for it to be removed,  but its the casino's responsibility not to do so after the process of requesting a permanent casino ban has been completed.


Otherwise,  whats the point of having the process if it can be undone so easily ?

Okay, just wanted to clear that up. No one enjoys admitting their degeneracy I'm sure, I am sympathetic to your situation.

I think this really reflects poorly on stake.com. Trying to be pedantic about a permanent ban vs permanent exclusion of a specific section of their site is not within the spirit (perhaps even the legality of their license, though I have no knowledge of this, just wondering) of the whole Responsible Gambling section. I wonder if they would have been stricter if the player was not betting so much but seeing the size of your gambling they let it slide.

Either way, I'd be interested in hearing what a Stake.com rep has to say about this. Being able to just revoke a perm self exclusion by a telegram discussion seems very weird. I'd think they'd at least allow an "Are You Sure?" period or something like that.

[Vod]

way, I'd be interested in hearing what a Stake.com rep has to say about this. Being able to just revoke a perm self exclusion by a telegram discussion seems very weird. I'd think they'd at least allow an "Are You Sure?" period or something like that.

He is not a stake.com rep.  His words are currently being sponsored by stake.com, and they told me they were aware of his ponzi scams.  Chances are stake.com is a collection area for his 2,600 stolen coin.  

[vennali]

~snip~

You do make a fair point but I think in the end it is up to the casino to deny you the service or not. You requested for a permanent casino ban and it is up to them to ban you or not. I can completely understand your addiction point of view. I have friends who have gone through the same phase. Even if it was one of my friends, and they had attempted to communicate with the casino's staff and requested unban and then tried to play casino games.. then its my friends issue and I would request him/her to seek medical assistance for their addiction. I will say the same to you. You have lost the BTC and ETH at your own volition. I would say that casinos and sportsbooks should have something to deter addicted gamblers. Bet365 has alerts for those. Not sure if anyone else does. Gambling addiction is no joke. There was some news I read recently that a man bet his wife with one of his friends and lost.

[Garmo]

~~~

~~~

I expect Stake to make this argument, that had I won,  we wouldn't be here.

That's the point tho.   We shouldn't be here.   I shouldn't have lost,  or won,  in the casino after completing their protocol for a permanent self casino ban.

What's your endgame here, then? Do you want those 13 BTC back? Are you warning others? What's the ultimatum behind this topic?

If it's the former, then you can kiss that sweet stack of whole BTCs good-bye. You ain't gonna see it again sitting in your wallet collecting dust. I agree that the blame isn't entirely on you, a small fraction of it is on the house itself for letting you off a self-ban that is supposed to be permanent. But you were fully conscientious of the typical risks of gambling, I don't think i need to spell it out for you.

You gave them the all-clear with those Telegram messages. Don't even dream of taking this to court, you'll be wasting both the owners and yourself's time.

If it's the latter, then I appreciate your altruism. But I'm curious, how did you get a hold of these 13 BTC and ETH? Sure hope you didn't drown yourself in debt pulling loans round-about. Are you an old miner, perhaps?

In any case, hope you get ahold of your self in these trying times, I know how bitter it must be to lose that kind of money. Best wishes.

[actmyname]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent! Think about it, too, as it's a conflict of interest for the casino - of course they would want you to revoke the self-exclusion - easy 'free bets'.

It's an unfortunate situation but I simply do not see any reasonable way you will get your money back.

[Stakefast]

I had a discussion about stake and their banning ways with the owner too and I managed to get banned but I am still able to withdraw my affiliate earnings, works great for me since then.

You should honestly just stop gambling and move on, you seem like you could earn that btc back in no time Don't waste your time on gambling, I also have no self control and needed the ban but you shouldn't have asked for a liftoff in the first place.

Just keep away and maybe try to earn instead of wasting cryptos on such sites.

All the best buddy, you'll be good sooner or later. Don't worry too much, I lost a lot too and its a lesson for yourself. It will get better. The most important thing about gambling is: fun. If the fun stops, you should stop.Thats what I can tell you from my heart. I think about this everytime I go to a gambling site and it dramatically helped me, even though I still loose 500-1000$ on some days, its remembering about having more fun then greed because on sites like this its easy to just gamble a million $ away in a couple of seconds. Its very dangerous and tempting at the same time. You need to figure this out for yourself.

You always have to remember that even if you win a lot of money you will loose at the end because the won money will be deposited sooner or later again to the same casino. Its your mind which needs to get adjusted by yourself.

[RHavar]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent!

Is that a problem? If they make permanent bans/self-exclusions actually permanent, then there's nothing to exploit.


While it sounds like stake probably never should've unbanned the account -- if we're being realistic had stake not unbanned the account -- I am pretty the OP would've found a way to gamble either at stake on a new account, or at another casino.

Gambling addictions are no joke, I really hope the OP takes it seriously and gets the help he needs.  

[johnjimjack]

Gambling addictions are no joke, I really hope the OP takes it seriously and gets the help he needs.  

Everyone who is saying take responsibility and stop gambling doesn't understand the addiction part. Even if you happen to gamble yourself.
He did take responsibility. He asked for the ban. The addiction is what brought him back. Yes, he could have just made another account. That doesn't mean that stake didn't do wrong by him. They say they practice responsible gaming and should have stood by it. His name should have remained in place.

Op I'm sorry this happened to you. I have a pretty bad habit myself. I can. Admit I have a problem but I can't bring myself to even take this first step of self exclusion yet. Each day it seems to be getting closer and closer though. I hope you find the help you need and I find it as well.

[Pmalek]

I checked the Askgamblers thread that you linked in your OP and you don't mention those 13 bitcoins or 157 ethers there. You mention total deposits amounting to £640.54 and that you made withdrawals of £337.40. You asked for the difference of £303.14 to be returned to you and Askgamblers supported your case. They felt like you did enough to request permanent exclusion, so Stake paid out.

What is confusing me is why you are talking about 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH in this thread, but you requested and talked about litecoin transactions totaling £640 at Askgamblers?

You are honest about your gambling addiction, that's a good thing. I hope you find the mental help you need to defeat your demons. Tell me something else honestly. If the self-exclusion and ban was never lifted on your account, would you have created another Stake account or used another casino to gamble?

[Stakefast]

I checked the Askgamblers thread that you linked in your OP and you don't mention those 13 bitcoins or 157 ethers there. You mention total deposits amounting to £640.54 and that you made withdrawals of £337.40. You asked for the difference of £303.14 to be returned to you and Askgamblers supported your case. They felt like you did enough to request permanent exclusion, so Stake paid out.

What is confusing me is why you are talking about 13.02 BTC and 157 ETH in this thread, but you requested and talked about litecoin transactions totaling £640 at Askgamblers?

You are honest about your gambling addiction, that's a good thing. I hope you find the mental help you need to defeat your demons. Tell me something else honestly. If the self-exclusion and ban was never lifted on your account, would you have created another Stake account or used another casino to gamble?

I guess he is talking about the total volume of his gambling on stake.

If thats the case, I'm up for a refund of my 30 BTC and 460 ETH too
https://prnt.sc/zrwoj0

[wildan88]

Consider: if Stake does return any amount, you have just carved out a new niche for people to exploit. What a lovely precedent!

Is that a problem? If they make permanent bans/self-exclusions actually permanent, then there's nothing to exploit.


While it sounds like stake probably never should've unbanned the account -- if we're being realistic had stake not unbanned the account -- I am pretty the OP would've found a way to gamble either at stake on a new account, or at another casino.

Gambling addictions are no joke, I really hope the OP takes it seriously and gets the help he needs.  

Agree, Stake controls whether they leave themselves open to exploitation or not.


While your 2nd point is reasonable i dont think it relieves Stake of their responsibility.      Maybe they didnt want me gambling somewhere else ?


But ill use an analogy here...


Say  you own a bar...     and theres a drunk customer,  and you keep serving him and serving him,     he goes and has an accident of some kind...      do you think the defense of  "well if i didnt serve him, he would have found another way to drink"    would hold up?

The website stake.com probably doesn't care that much whether you have a gambling addiction or not. Their only concern is that you can continue to deposit as much as possible.
Is there no option on the platform that you can exclude your own so that you can no longer log in and therefore remain excluded via the system for that period?
If Stake did not allow this or did not comply with your request, then they have seriously broken the rules of the gambling license.