This is why Bitcoinica users must wait in line for withdrawals

[ineededausername]

[23:51] <@MagicalTux> 2. We are mtgox, not bitcoinica
[23:51] <inau> heh
[23:51] <inau> well, bitcoinica says
[23:51] <inau> that you are imposing your withdrawal limits on their account
[23:52] <inau> this is causing a great deal of trouble for bitcoinica users
[23:52] <@MagicalTux> inau: bitcoinica is an illegal loan entity run by a minor
[23:52] <@MagicalTux> technically
[23:52] <@MagicalTux> now, if we had proper corporate documentation for bitcoinica we could allow larger withdraw limits
[23:52] <inau> i see

There it is, mtgox's official position on bitcoinica.

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[phorensic]

That's bold.  zhoutong, step it up man!  Respond!

[ElectricMucus]

The whole withdraw limit thing is kinda bogus anyway. Independent of who it is.

[matonis]

Does he mean "minor" or "miner" ?

[Eveofwar]

Does he mean "minor" or "miner" ?

Minor.

As in    < 18

[cypherdoc]

this is a real liquidity problem for Bitcoinica users and for Zhoutong. 

[LoupGaroux]

Liquidity problem yes, but it is also cold hard facts. Regardless of how well put together it is, Bitcoinica is dancing on the razor edge of legality and doesn't have a leg to stand on in demanding better service.

[ineededausername]

zhoutong:
1. Is bitcoinica a corporation?
2. Why hasn't bitcoinica submitted proper corporate documentation to mtgox? (if you have, please say so)

[btc_artist]

Bitcoinica is dancing on the razor edge of legality

What exactly is/might be illegal about it?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Liquidity problem yes, but it is also cold hard facts. Regardless of how well put together it is, Bitcoinica is dancing on the razor edge of legality and doesn't have a leg to stand on in demanding better service.

In one what universe is Bitcoinica standing any shakier than Mt. Gox when it comes to international cashflow, regulatory compliance, and AML enforcement.

This is a petty attempt at Mt. Gox to undermine a competitor.  Having 99% of the market isn't enough.

[LoupGaroux]

Never said that Gox had anything to brag about. Under current banking laws, securities laws, money laundering laws, usury laws and quite possibly anti-racketeering laws in much of the civilized world, including Japan, Mt. Gox is not dancing, but jumping up and down with ankle weights on the razor's edge.

In fact pretty much everything that we do around here with bitcoins is quasi-legal somewhere, from our tax avoiding profit making mining enterprises, to our completely unregulated stock exchange, to the gift card buyers and sellers who transfer funds that are proscribed in certain countries. Toss in our infants terrible Silk Road and WikiLeaks as the early adopter poster children, and you have a wonderful cesspool of shady dealings, slightly mangled laws, and wanna-be gangsters all over the place.

Having Gox put restrictions on Bitcoinica is a lot like a mugger asking you for two pieces of ID to go with the cash he is stealing from you...

[evoorhees]

, and you have a wonderful cesspool of shady dealings, slightly mangled laws, and wanna-be gangsters all over the place.

Yes some of that... but mostly just free people engaging in businesses without asking for permission from clowns with badges. Thank god there are people who just move forward without pleading with the gatekeepers. Heroes all.

[Matthew N. Wright]

[23:51] <@MagicalTux> 2. We are mtgox, not bitcoinica
[23:51] <inau> heh
[23:51] <inau> well, bitcoinica says
[23:51] <inau> that you are imposing your withdrawal limits on their account
[23:52] <inau> this is causing a great deal of trouble for bitcoinica users
[23:52] <@MagicalTux> inau: bitcoinica is an illegal loan entity run by a minor
[23:52] <@MagicalTux> technically
[23:52] <@MagicalTux> now, if we had proper corporate documentation for bitcoinica we could allow larger withdraw limits
[23:52] <inau> i see

There it is, mtgox's official position on bitcoinica.

Bitcoinica is not a company. XWaylabs is a company, and it is legal and registered. Bitcoinica is a product of XWaylabs.

I can't help that MtGox is prejudiced against anything other than them that can influence the market. U jelly mtgox?

Speaking of which, watch how fast MtGox copies Bitcoinica and tries to include everything they do.

[2112]

This is fun to watch and compare with the historical record of the securities exchanges battling bucket shops.

About 100-something year ago the main weapon against bucket shops was to cut off their ticker: ticker literally meant telegraph.

So the bucket shop operators would bribe telegraph company linemen to surreptitiously tap the telegraph lines of some established brokerage.

I wonder what is the next salvo in this battle going to be?

[phorensic]

Speaking of which, watch how fast MtGox copies Bitcoinica and tries to include everything they do.

I can't believe, out of the 100 shitty posts you make per day, you actually said something I agree with.  I believe the countdown on Gox is to release features that Bitcoinica started (well, it's just standard forex stuff anyway).

[Matthew N. Wright]

Speaking of which, watch how fast MtGox copies Bitcoinica and tries to include everything they do.

I can't believe, out of the 100 shitty posts you make per day, you actually said something I agree with.  I believe the countdown on Gox is to release features that Bitcoinica started (well, it's just standard forex stuff anyway).

Not everything I say is it's just that I think is funny and a lot of other people think is funny too so I end up saying in between normal things. What's wrong, you got a problem with ?

[ThomasV]

This is a petty attempt at Mt. Gox to undermine a competitor.  Having 99% of the market isn't enough.

Bitcoinica is not a competitor to mtgox. They look more like a parasite of mtgox.

They allow people to trade mtgox codes, and they leave all the difficult work (dealing with banks and regulations) to mtgox.

[ElectricMucus]

This is a petty attempt at Mt. Gox to undermine a competitor.  Having 99% of the market isn't enough.

Bitcoinica is not a competitor to mtgox. They look more like a parasite of mtgox.

They allow people to trade mtgox codes, and they leave all the difficult work (dealing with banks and regulations) to mtgox.

Haters gonna hate.

[zhoutong]

zhoutong:
1. Is bitcoinica a corporation?
2. Why hasn't bitcoinica submitted proper corporate documentation to mtgox? (if you have, please say so)

1. Bitcoinica is currently operated by xWaylab Inc., a Delaware corporation.

2. I have submitted by passport for AML. So our main account has a limit increase. However, we have separate accounts for hedging and withdrawals because one has to be protected by Yubikey. The withdrawal account has normal account limits while the hedging account doesn't have.

Each time you do a manual withdrawal, I would have to manually log in to Mt. Gox account using the Yubikey, and withdraw. This works 99% of the time.

I have requested for withdrawal limit increase on the bitcoinica_withdrawal account, but they rejected because both accounts are owned by the same owner, and the only way to do it is to wait for their sub-account feature (with shared withdrawal limits or something).

Now I'm traveling and I don't have Yubikey access at the moment, so Bitcoinica users have to request for manual withdrawal limit resets.

[zhoutong]

Liquidity problem yes, but it is also cold hard facts. Regardless of how well put together it is, Bitcoinica is dancing on the razor edge of legality and doesn't have a leg to stand on in demanding better service.

In one what universe is Bitcoinica standing any shakier than Mt. Gox when it comes to international cashflow, regulatory compliance, and AML enforcement.

This is a petty attempt at Mt. Gox to undermine a competitor.  Having 99% of the market isn't enough.

Bitcoinica can easily double or triple the volume of an exchange like TradeHill. Everyday the hedging volume at Mt. Gox is 1/4 to 1/3 of their book. I think Mark knows this.

I just have no interest to switch to other exchanges at the moment. But I must say it's silly to think Bitcoinica as a competitor not a partner. When they do, Bitcoinica will really be a significant competitor.