Will energy consumption be Bitcoins downfall ?

[imstillthebest]

if you are like elon musk that cares for the environment you will soon find yourself moving from btc to alts .
 that can cause downfall in the price but btc price will remain high because most of the people will stay in btc just like the car users that are still loyal to thier old model vehicles and as we can see there are still lots of gasoline stations around .
 eco friendly models are less powerful and the same can go with cryptos . i dont like that but i want maximum performance

[1715183290]

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[mr_ROBOTT]

This analogy is, in my opinion, one of the best examples we can give of the Bitcoin and Altcoin market trends. That perhaps one day more digital currency investors will turn to Altcoins (due to lower fees) They go and the bitcoin market undergoes many changes.

[Gatorelf]

I think some are missing my point...  

There are lots of consumers that Love the Hummer,  yet instead of buying the gas guzzling Hummer the conscious is more at ease with an Electric Truck.
Forget all the engineered logic as the world of average consumers doesn't operate on it.

Sure some people indeed make such decisions with vehicles, but they're a huge minority. But take note that it's not really that much of a good analogy. Whether a certain miner uses renewable energy or not, it really won't affect the ability of the bitcoiner to use bitcoin. Whereas people who use EVs might be monetarily incentivized.

I also am not saying bitcoin wont be around if it continues on its way as is,
 only that it will lose market share and quite possibly not be King.  

Bitcoin losing marketshare has always been a possibility and has been fluctuating a lot since forever(see: dominance metric). But Bitcoin not being king because of the energy usage? Lol no.

Those minority of people made Tesla the largest automaker in the world in 10 years from a couple of roadsters.

It wont matter if energy is renewable or not, people will argue that energy could best be served elsewhere. Although a great idea the Achilles heal may well be the massive proof of work computations.   

[bryant.coleman]

For the last 12.5 years, tens of millions have been using Bitcoin without an issue. And a few months ago, a rich asshole enters the scene and create a lot of hype. And then he dictates that we should change the way Bitcoin works. I don't think that it is going to work like that. PoW has worked so well for the last 12 years and I really don't want any changes to the algorithm. Those who want PoS are free to migrate to any other coin, which they feel is more energy efficient. But I am not in favor of any changes, just because Elon doesn't like the current setup. 

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

If we can't do a thing about that energy consumption problem, pretty sure that it will be a downfall for bitcoin but given how there are still gas powered cars even though the first electric car was built in 1946, I don't think that we are going to see bitcoin's downfall in our lifetime.

[Gatorelf]

For the last 12.5 years, tens of millions have been using Bitcoin without an issue. And a few months ago, a rich asshole enters the scene and create a lot of hype. And then he dictates that we should change the way Bitcoin works. I don't think that it is going to work like that. PoW has worked so well for the last 12 years and I really don't want any changes to the algorithm. Those who want PoS are free to migrate to any other coin, which they feel is more energy efficient. But I am not in favor of any changes, just because Elon doesn't like the current setup. 

Musk had nothing to do with my post, its something I've been thinking on for years actually.  All my crypto assets are in Alts the last couple of years. Just pondering the question of the pow network evolving to a POS network from folks that actually design the programs. So far it seems its a no

I dont think BTC will ever be gone jus may nit be king one day

[bryant.coleman]

Musk had nothing to do with my post, its something I've been thinking on for years actually.  All my crypto assets are in Alts the last couple of years. Just pondering the question of the pow network evolving to a POS network from folks that actually design the programs. So far it seems its a no

I dont think BTC will ever be gone jus may nit be king one day

At least Musk is responsible for the crash we are having for the last 2-3 days. The first PoS coin came in to circulation many years ago. If PoS was so much superior to PoW, then it could have overtaken Bitcoin and the other PoW coins already. That hasn't happened because PoS algorithm has a lot of vulnerabilities. It is a free market and no one is forcing others to use PoW coins. Now you can't just badmouth the PoW coins, because the PoS coins are not making much movement in the market.

[suzanne5223]

I don't think Bitcoin mining energy consumption will be an issue anymore or the downfall of Bitcoin since there are already alternatives energy created to reduce the level of electricity energy consumption of Bitcoin though alternative has not circulated. However, we have some countries which energy consumption is not an issue there.

[worle1bm]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

So shifting from Bitcoin to other altcoins which use less power to mine will provide you the same security and decentalized ecosystem?With change in technology the people also need to update and this is also used in bitcoin mining.The miners are already shifting to renewable source of energy to mine Bitcoin like wind and solar powers.You can check that banking and other sectors use 2-3x more energy consumption than Bitcoin mining as per the reports.But still there is no statements by the federal on that.Gold mining also create pollution in the air by digging in the ground risking the workers life and these Tesla and other electronic cars are also using lithium for batteries which are extracted from the ground and labours are exploited for such works.But still btc which is providing you freedom of funds is always targeted by the crits.So just ignore them in normal course and hold btc for future.

[Gatorelf]

Musk had nothing to do with my post, its something I've been thinking on for years actually.  All my crypto assets are in Alts the last couple of years. Just pondering the question of the pow network evolving to a POS network from folks that actually design the programs. So far it seems its a no

I dont think BTC will ever be gone jus may nit be king one day

At least Musk is responsible for the crash we are having for the last 2-3 days. The first PoS coin came in to circulation many years ago. If PoS was so much superior to PoW, then it could have overtaken Bitcoin and the other PoW coins already. That hasn't happened because PoS algorithm has a lot of vulnerabilities. It is a free market and no one is forcing others to use PoW coins. Now you can't just badmouth the PoW coins, because the PoS coins are not making much movement in the market.

right, he and China upset the whole cart lol...    keep in mind I am not badmouthing I am making an observation and pondering questions from an investment point of view.
No one was more pro Crypto than I, they might be smarter though. I am not a software engineer but I am an investor. I know trends pretty well.  BTC could and may be the best
 crypto there has ever been and ever will be but if XYZ crypto triples my money in 3 years verses BTC at 100% where do you think my money will be.

Its very much like the stock market, a company can have all the boxes checked for a solid investment. Yet if no one is buying the stock its not going up. I am not investing in the integrity of the coin, I am investing in its potential.   

[Weawant]

My answer here is no. Bitcoin will never be replaced by alternative coins/cryptocurrency just because of the energy consumption. Join the miners community and see how they are all planning to have their operations  have 90-95% renewable energy sourced. Not only because they could help the nature to breathe, they will also massively benefit to it as the energy expense will be reduced to almost 10% of what they are currently paying. I don't really think that Elon Musk did not know about this, I'm sure he does. The opinion he had on bitcoin is only a public stunt for me.

If this happen, expect for the bitcoin to accelerate, not even that it would also be more attractive to the investors and people who fears of missing out. We all need to have patience on it as development is being made from time to time now.

But honestly, I wouldn't mine too if we all had to move to alternative coins with less energy consumption and then wait for the Bitcoin to catch up. Well, it depends though but one thing is for sure, Bitcoin will never be at the bottom. We will always find ways to move up.
 

[Amph]

Consider this...

The amount of energy that is used Globally for bitcoin mining is DIRECTLY proportional to the product of the average exchange rate of bitcoins multiplied by the current block reward.

If the exchange rate goes up, the miners have more money per block mined to pay for more electricity.  If the block reward goes up, the miners have more money per block mined to pay for more electricity.  If the block reward goes down, the miners have less money per block mined to pay for electricity. If the exchange rate goes down, the miners have less money per block mined to pay for electricity.

Furthermore, approximately every 4 years, the block subsidy is cut in half.  It is currently 6.25 BTC per block, but in a few short years, it will be only 3.125 BTC per block and 4 years after that, it will be 1.5625 BTC per block.

If nothing else changes (the exchange rate stays pretty much the same, and the transaction fees per block stay pretty much the same, and the cost of electricity per kWh stays pretty much the same, and the ASIC efficiency stays pretty much the same), then we should see the amount of energy used for mining cut in half in a few years, and cut in half again 4 years after that.  So, by design, Bitcoin WILL become more efficient over time.

Now, if the exchange rate increases, the energy usage will increase proportionally, but from what you're saying that isn't a concern.

when the total reward in bitcoin of all transaction fees per day(currently around 300 btc), will be much hgher(x10+) than the total amount of bitcoin per day, made from each block(currently 900 btc), the consumption will not be a concern anymore, the number of transaction will be instead, for the miners at least...

[katiepower]

Crypto does not consume as much electricity as many people think. Any production activity consumes much more.

[TastyChillySauce00]

Most of miners uses renewable energy, I see no reason making it as big problem as it seen or talked by elon, not to mention if bitcoin indeed fall then it's gonna solve its own problem which is energy consumption since there gonna be decrease in mining difficulty
and tbh, bitcoin is still developing and there's maybe a potential for it to release solution to this problem so rest assured the problem regarding energy consumption won't be bitcoin's down fall and frankly if we could find another source of energy in the future, does the current electricity consumption matters?

[Gatorelf]

Most of miners uses renewable energy, I see no reason making it as big problem as it seen or talked by elon, not to mention if bitcoin indeed fall then it's gonna solve its own problem which is energy consumption since there gonna be decrease in mining difficulty
and tbh, bitcoin is still developing and there's maybe a potential for it to release solution to this problem so rest assured the problem regarding energy consumption won't be bitcoin's down fall and frankly if we could find another source of energy in the future, does the current electricity consumption matters?

well lets hope it doesn't but here is something to think about, lets say BTC is 100% renewable energy from their own dedicated sources in the future.
You will still have a movement of users/consumers that will say why use BTC when I can Use XYZ coin and achieve the same transaction of digital currency
using 4 million times less power.  I mentioned earlier that the power Industry was my business for most my career (30 plus years) and I still do some consulting
for Southern Company. I still bogles my mind that we could completely end all the pollution problems and all the energy problems with Nuclear. Thorium based salt reactors.

However the public wont allow it from unwarranted fear of Nuclear power.  I also mentioned the Energy mortality rate per TKwhr and yet the public wont embrace Nuclear.
The point here has nothing to to with power and BTC. The point in this is public perception, and thats what can make a difference in the crypto world as much as it has in the power Industry world.

Energy Source                    Mortality Rate (deaths/trillionkWhr)

Coal – global average         100,000    (41% global electricity)

Coal – China                      170,000   (75% China’s electricity)

Coal – U.S.                         10,000    (32% U.S. electricity)

Oil                                     36,000    (33% of energy, 8% of electricity)

Natural Gas                          4,000    (22% global electricity)

Biofuel/Biomass                  24,000    (21% global energy)

Solar (rooftop)                        440    (< 1% global electricity)

Wind                                      150    (2% global electricity)

Hydro – global average          1,400    (16% global electricity)

Hydro – U.S.                               5    (6% U.S. electricity)

Nuclear – global average              90    (11%  global electricity w/Chern&Fukush)

Nuclear – U.S.                            0.1    (19% U.S. electricity)

It is notable that the U.S. death rates for coal are so much lower than for China, strictly a result of regulation, particularly the Clean Air Act (Scott et al., 2005). It is also notable that the Clean Air Act is one of the most life-saving pieces of legislation ever adopted by any country in history, along with the Fair Labor Standards Act (1938) which established the 40 hour week, and Medicare in 1965.  Still, about 10,000 die from coal use in the U.S. each year, and another thousand from natural gas.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/nuclear-mortality-rate-safe-energy/

[conected]

I don't think Bitcoin mining energy consumption will be an issue anymore or the downfall of Bitcoin since there are already alternatives energy created to reduce the level of electricity energy consumption of Bitcoin though alternative has not circulated. However, we have some countries which energy consumption is not an issue there.

- Society has quite a lot of industries with large energy consumption but society also accepts as long as it brings value to them, bitcoin only consumes energy at the allowable level and still brings value to the community, don't understand why some people always like to hype and try to trample bitcoin with this, especially some people have great resources to influence the market. And we are always surprised with the actions of this group of people, reject and hate but then buy and mine continuously, what are their goals and plots?

[Smartvirus]

You can imagine the reaction from the energy consumption tweet from Elon Musk. It was as though it is a planned or an anticipated tweet as it took off immediately. The result was noticeable in less than 24hours!
Using other alts as a worthy replacement isn't the right way or a way to go around this. There was once a time when, bitcoin was mined with non sophisticated devices too. Projecting other alts would simply mean a bump to that coin and in time, another coin would step up. Thougjh, this is most likely not to happen as bitcoin faithfuls are always there to push price up.

We can rightly say bitcoin is only making use of the readily available at a good price too. Should the world switch to a more renewable or eco-friendly source, miners would too. Tesla was wrong in this one as per statistic assumption.

[DannyHamilton]

Coal – U.S.                         10,000    (32% U.S. electricity)

It is notable that the U.S. death rates for coal are so much lower than for China, strictly a result of regulation, particularly the Clean Air Act (Scott et al., 2005). It is also notable that the Clean Air Act is one of the most life-saving pieces of legislation ever adopted by any country in history, along with the Fair Labor Standards Act (1938) which established the 40 hour week, and Medicare in 1965.  Still, about 10,000 die from coal use in the U.S. each year, and another thousand from natural gas.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/nuclear-mortality-rate-safe-energy/

The good news is that in the U.S. the percentage of electricity that is generated from Coal has dropped below 20%.  As a matter of fact, I believe last year was  the first year where the percentage of electricity generated from renewables exceeded that of coal:

Source	Billion kWh	Share of total
Coal	774	19.3%
Renewables	792	19.8%

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

I don't know if the relationship is linear, but if so then perhaps the U.S. death rate for coal is now down to about 6,000?

[suzanne5223]

I don't think Bitcoin mining energy consumption will be an issue anymore or the downfall of Bitcoin since there are already alternatives energy created to reduce the level of electricity energy consumption of Bitcoin though alternative has not circulated. However, we have some countries which energy consumption is not an issue there.

- Society has quite a lot of industries with large energy consumption but society also accepts as long as it brings value to them, bitcoin only consumes energy at the allowable level and still brings value to the community, don't understand why some people always like to hype and try to trample bitcoin with this, especially some people have great resources to influence the market. And we are always surprised with the actions of this group of people, reject and hate but then buy and mine continuously, what are their goals and plots?

When an industry that is not own or control by the government/business mogul is flourishing like crypto currency despite their strive to bring it down we should always expect many hate and false information from different angle that's the reason why some people hype minor issue about Bitcoin.
Their goals is simple to cause fud so they can buy dip or cause chaos in the market.

[Gatorelf]

Coal – U.S.                         10,000    (32% U.S. electricity)

It is notable that the U.S. death rates for coal are so much lower than for China, strictly a result of regulation, particularly the Clean Air Act (Scott et al., 2005). It is also notable that the Clean Air Act is one of the most life-saving pieces of legislation ever adopted by any country in history, along with the Fair Labor Standards Act (1938) which established the 40 hour week, and Medicare in 1965.  Still, about 10,000 die from coal use in the U.S. each year, and another thousand from natural gas.

https://www.power-technology.com/features/nuclear-mortality-rate-safe-energy/

The good news is that in the U.S. the percentage of electricity that is generated from Coal has dropped below 20%.  As a matter of fact, I believe last year was  the first year where the percentage of electricity generated from renewables exceeded that of coal:

Source	Billion kWh	Share of total
Coal	774	19.3%
Renewables	792	19.8%

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

I don't know if the relationship is linear, but if so then perhaps the U.S. death rate for coal is now down to about 6,000?

That would be great, yes the Combined cycle Gas Turbines have been springing up all over the last 10 years replacing many of the dinosaur coal plants. They just bulldozed down a 4 unit ( Plant Branch 1969) in Milledgeville GA  a few years back. The CCGT's are much cleaner and start up in a couple of minutes vs hours. There is still two monster coal fired plants in GA.  Plant Scherer in Juliette ( Largest coal power plant in the U.S. # 2 in power production)  and Bowen in Cartersville.  I was over a $85M environmental project there in 2016. Good to see the renewables climbed to 20%.. Solar farms are all over the south now. 20% is going to be about the top until battery tech catch's up.

anyway lemme run, I could talk about energy forever lol... I appreciated the comments from you all and remember I am not anti BTC     Just watching the world and trying to keep the investments I do have.