Will energy consumption be Bitcoins downfall ?

[Gatorelf]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

[mk4]

My guess that it's the good-sized miners that are likely to move to eco-friendly energy; maybe due to regulations, or simply to maximize profits.

Sure, some people will move to PoS alts; but nothing's going to beat Bitcoin in terms of security, decentralization, monetary policy, and adoption. simply not a single alt comes close to Bitcoin in terms of these characteristics.

[avikz]

I don't think the energy consumption will become the reason of Bitcoin's downfall in long run. What is happening now is an impact due to Elon's comments on bitcoin. Elon is a manufacturer of electric cars which is environment friendly. So his announcement of accepting bitcoins for Tesla cars actually angered a lot of shareholders and environmentalists. Since Tesla is a publicly traded company, Elon had to safeguard its reputation.

But I am sure it is a temporary impact and we will soon be back to track. But for sure, new miners may choose pos coins over pow coins because it is easier to get into and also requires less investment in most cases. Also bitcoin miners will slowly choose to move to eco-friendly energy sources as it keeps the operating cost lower.

Not a downfall. Just a temporary impact!

[Altcoinsintel]

This argument is difficult to make. It is already known that Bitcoin has huge electricity consumption. I don't think that PoW will change in Bitcoin, but I know for a fact that funds do not want to invest in anything that is polluting the environment.
But can we say that Bitcoin does that and is it worth this consumption? The network is getting better security, but even at 80% of the current hash-rate the network was already secure.
However I don't like these fake arguments made at all.
This is not about protecting the environment it is all a game of manipulation. Suddenly Tesla and Square are all eco-friendly out of nowhere.
When they were investing in Bitcoin they knew of course.

[Gatorelf]

My guess that it's the good-sized miners that are likely to move to eco-friendly energy; maybe due to regulations, or simply to maximize profits.

Sure, some people will move to PoS alts; but nothing's going to beat Bitcoin in terms of security, decentralization, monetary policy, and adoption. simply not a single alt comes close to Bitcoin in terms of these characteristics.

BTC is king, what I am thinking is the growth is now limited with it being a store of value with high energy demand. With many options becoming available with less carbon footprint the store of value will be trickling to the likes of ADA NANO and Harmony 

[mk4]

BTC is king, what I am thinking is the growth is now limited with it being a store of value with high energy demand.

And the energy usage will increase, and so will Bitcoin's security and decentralization.

With many options becoming available with less carbon footprint the store of value will be trickling to the likes of ADA NANO and Harmony  

A huge factor of Bitcoin being a SoV is that it's actually decentralized; whereas, these altcoins simply doesn't have that characteristic. I wouldn't want a huge chunk of my net worth parked in an asset where the protocol is pretty much controlled by a CEO-like figure. Also, using proof of stake for a SoV asset? I couldn't name a worse combination.

[Gatorelf]

However I don't like these fake arguments made at all.
This is not about protecting the environment it is all a game of manipulation. Suddenly Tesla and Square are all eco-friendly out of nowhere.
When they were investing in Bitcoin they knew of course.

Nothing fake about it, just as it was a fact tree huggers and I was one of them knew of and have been following Tesla ( the company) since the roadster came out in 2009. 
It was nothing but a couple of cars and an idea for ecofriendly transportation. Eleven years later they are bigger than Ford and GM combined. 

What I am wondering is if mining BTC can be changed in the future to POS ?  and or if its possible to evolve to less energy demanding coin.

[fiulpro]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

The fact is : people will move to whatever is beneficial for them.
There are other things also which are not at all energy efficient but are still being used since years by these investors.
•The energy usage can only be decreased if people who are in charge of the mining farms take alternative sources of energy as a main source
•They need to study about renewable sources of energy and they have to be guided in the right direction through these big investors
•Other Altcoins are not going to be Invested in by bulk people for sure therefore the price will never pump up as compared to bitcoins
•People would not leave this opportunity to buy more during this dip.
They are just trying to figure out a way to make other people dump BTC so that they can buy at lower rates.

[mk4]

What I am wondering is if mining BTC can be changed in the future to POS ?  and or if its possible to evolve to less energy demanding coin.

Bitcoin IS proof of work, and it is very successful in the SoV aspect because of PoW. Changing Bitcoin into PoS is just going to create problems. Do you want to give exchanges huge amounts of power over the network? I sure as hell wouldn't. Remember Changpeng Zhao's past plans on rolling back the network due to the people hacked on Binance? Yea, that might've occurred if Bitcoin was PoS.

Not to mention changing to PoS is just forking it into another crappy altcoin.

using proof of stake for a SoV asset? I couldn't name a worse combination.

[Gatorelf]

With many options becoming available with less carbon footprint the store of value will be trickling to the likes of ADA NANO and Harmony  

A huge factor of Bitcoin being a SoV is that it's actually decentralized; whereas, these altcoins simply doesn't have that characteristic. I wouldn't want a huge chunk of my net worth parked in an asset where the protocol is pretty much controlled by a CEO-like figure. Also, using proof of stake for a SoV asset? I couldn't name a worse combination.
[/quote]

You make a good point !  Its become like investing in stocks you just don't want all your eggs in one basket...  Cryptos are just one of our baskets... I appreciate all the comments guys !

[DannyHamilton]

will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

Bitcoin is eco friendly.  Those saying otherwise are uninformed or intentionally obtuse.

What I am wondering is if mining BTC can be changed in the future to POS?

No.

Bitcoin is POW. It is. It always has been. It was the intention from the beginning. It always will be.  Get over it.

If you don't like it, there are thousands of shitcoins for you to choose from.

[dimonstration]

Before when mining rigs and mining jobs were too popular and BTC just started to have its popularity , many aims to buy and create their own crypto mining but later on finds it unprofitable due to high cost of electricity, those only who can maintain their consumption or have alternatives like solar panels can fully earn in these mining business but since adoption increases in crypto its quite impossible for its price tofall just because of energy consumption since there are already miners who set their mind in doing it.

[Altcoinsintel]

However I don't like these fake arguments made at all.
This is not about protecting the environment it is all a game of manipulation. Suddenly Tesla and Square are all eco-friendly out of nowhere.
When they were investing in Bitcoin they knew of course.

Nothing fake about it,

The fact that both stocks (Tesla and Squre) are down since they announced their BTC investment means their sudden concerns responsibility towards the environment is fake. Jack knew and Elon knew. The difference is there are hundreds of billions lost, for a billion dollar investment in BTC. Both just want to save their stock price.

About your question, I already replied, PoW works like that and Bitcoin is not going to change. Each country has environment laws. If a mining farm in a third world country burns too much coal, it is probably because that country has a corrupt government accepting industries run with high pollution levels.

[BrewMaster]

no because the bitcoin's energy consumption is greatly exaggerated to the point that it is starting to look ridiculous. also when you compare the energy consumption that bitcoin has with anything else in the world you realize that it is really tiny in comparison.

these days i'm posting this video everywhere:
Bitcoin energy consumption by Andereas Antanopolos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvFqEofdAZ0

[Gatorelf]

will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

Bitcoin is eco friendly.  Those saying otherwise are uninformed or intentionally obtuse.

What I am wondering is if mining BTC can be changed in the future to POS?

No.

Bitcoin is POW. It is. It always has been. It was the intention from the beginning. It always will be.  Get over it.

If you don't like it, there are thousands of shitcoins for you to choose from.

First you are wrong, energy is my business. Some BTC is mined from hydro power solar power etc but the vast majority comes right off the grid worldwide. That means fossil fuel plants make up the bulk of the load.

You skipped right over the question, I know BTC is POW and always has been. What I can tell you is its topped out now unless the POW evolves into less energy demand I see it going back to $10k... so you may just have to get over that. 

[dkbit98]

Downfall? Can someone please remind me how many times Bitcoin died so far because of various fud and bad news?
We should not blindly listen and trust mainstream media and clowns like Elon Musk who is probably spending more energy on his posts and space rockets than all Bitcoin network.

What I am wondering is if mining BTC can be changed in the future to POS ?  and or if its possible to evolve to less energy demanding coin.

Bitcoin will never convert to PoS model and if some crazy minority decides to fork off it will end up like all other Bitcoin forks that tried to do something similar.
Proof-of-stake has many flaws, there is no real decentralization with vps servers and imagine telling people to buy Bitcoin if you want to run a node with current prices or higher.
What could happen in future is that someone invents new eco friendly algorithm that is not PoS or PoW but something totally new that keeps security and decentralization.
I am sure we are going to see more Bitcoin changes in future and I would like to see improved privacy more than changing of PoW model.

What I can tell you is its topped out now unless the POW evolves into less energy demand I see it going back to $10k... so you may just have to get over that.  

You must be Nostradamus or some prophet if you know exact price movement, and Bitcoin may go down to $10k at some point but it can also go to $100K when this fud settles.
Check out stock-to-flow model and zoom out.

[willoweb]

Please name such "green" alternatives? What coin is mined out of thin air? In my opinion, this is the opinion that the mining of cryptocurrency can become "environmentally" clean, just a gimmick like the whole topic of "green energy". Since in the global energy generation "green technologies" occupy a negligible percentage - so it is the same with the mining of bitcoins and alternative coins. This is a utopia which in the near future is not destined to come true in reality.

[Gatorelf]

Downfall? Can someone please remind me how many times Bitcoin died so far because of various fud and bad news?
We should not blindly listen and trust mainstream media and clowns like Elon Musk who is probably spending more energy on his posts and space rockets than all Bitcoin network.

Elon just mentioned something I had been talking about a couple years now so its always been in the back of my mind. He just gets a lot of reaction lol

I am not a BTC hater, I am an investor.  I road the train from $380 and love bitcoin.  Now it has its competition, I watch the crypto market cap a lot. I believe it peaked at $2.7T just a few weeks back with BTC in control of 1.2T or better.  Currently at this writing the total market cap is $2.06 T with BTC holding $800B of that, ETH $373B. So $640B has left the crypto market. I can easily see a $3T market as money comes back in this year but how much is going to be going into the likes of ADA now that Elon caused a mini panic.

Its all speculative and as Ive always told investors it doesn't matter if its true or not, what matters is how people react to it.

[Gatorelf]

Please name such "green" alternatives? What coin is mined out of thin air? In my opinion, this is the opinion that the mining of cryptocurrency can become "environmentally" clean, just a gimmick like the whole topic of "green energy". Since in the global energy generation "green technologies" occupy a negligible percentage - so it is the same with the mining of bitcoins and alternative coins. This is a utopia which in the near future is not destined to come true in reality.

ADA, Bitgreen BITG, XCH, Nano and XLM. Its not that these coins don't use power its the amount they use that's attractive to some and may become a factor for investors.

[DannyHamilton]

First you are wrong, energy is my business.

Glad to hear it.  Then tell me please, what is the total worldwide energy expenditure right now behind the worlds leading alternative system (U.S. Dollars)?
Please include ALL energy that would stop being used if the Dollar (or other fiat currencies) didn't exist. Include the minting of the physical currency, the securing and transporting of that physical currency, the secret service effort to prevent counterfeiting and fraud, the banking system, vaults, branches, ATMs, tellers, all the fuel spent on all the vehicles by all the employees getting to and from work, all the databases and computers for storing balances all over the world, the networks needed for inter-bank transfers, the consumer level electronic payment systems, card readers, routers, security systems, etc.  While you're at it, please consider the amount of energy the U.S. military uses in its efforts to make sure that its currency keeps its status as the reserve currency of the world.

Once you've calculated all that, come back and compare it for me to the costs of Bitcoin's network.

Some BTC is mined from hydro power solar power etc but the vast majority comes right off the grid worldwide. That means fossil fuel plants make up the bulk of the load.

Bitcoin mining is driven by profits.  If you want mining to use more eco-friendly sources of energy, make them cheaper.  As eco friendly electricity becomes cheaper, bitcoin mining will automatically switch over to more eco-friendly sources.

What I can tell you is its topped out now unless the POW evolves into less energy demand I see it going back to $10k...

Heard this at $1, $10, $100, $1000, and now $10,000.  Picking an arbitrary number close to the current number on any given day and saying it "topped out" at that number is just silly.  $10,000 is no more of a magic number than $1000 or $100,000.

Furthermore, let's imagine for a moment that you are correct. That would be a GOOD thing.  Once price discovery ends, volatility dies down, and the exchange rate
stabilizes, it will be MUCH easier for merchants to price things in bitcoins and for consumers to understand what that price means in terms of value.  An eventual stabilized exchange rate that adjusts over time due mostly to deflation is the end goal.

so you may just have to get over that.  

Nothing to get over.  I'd be thrilled that the price stabilized and Bitcoin's volatility stops being a common complaint.  It doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin mining can not and will not be changed away from Proof of Work.