Will energy consumption be Bitcoins downfall ?

[electronicash]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

no electric cars are expensive. will probably wait for 10 years to own one. will just use my bike if EV isnt worth $1K. $1k is even way high.

the people who certainly wanted to control BTC decentralization doesnt have the energy source to keep mining  BTC so they ban the use of fossil sources. this is controling BTC and what they want miners to use is the tesla batteries.

[TangentC]

you need to go back and read the conversation so you know what we are talking about.  

In a nut shell, I could care less about what an individual says but more in how people react.  If the consumer can use XYZ coin ( a very low power consuming POS) and achieve the same function, security and even better speed than High energy consuming POW BTC, then why not use XYZ

 

Every trader wants profits and their best bet is btc because they know how hard it has become for miners to mine it. They are keeping its price high because of the resources being used to mine it, making a direct correlation between consumption of resources to mine a btc and its present value.

Now, when talking about security, none of the PoS coins in my views can beat the security of btc, please draw me to one which can and I will think of changing my portfolio from btc to that xyz coin. If such a thing would exist, it would have taken over btc already. Every node validates a transaction making it more difficult for a hacker to break the chain and move that transaction his way. I agree that the speed of btc may be less if compared to so many altcoins there, but we still use it because we know the value it has given to crypto and is still adding it with its mining. And when all the alts (your PoS coins included) are created to provide the nearly same functions that btc gives, I would twist and turn your question and ask you: why not to use btc over them when they are only copying what btc did years ago? In the end, it is all about choosing the right coin and if btc is my right coin, I will go for it and you may go for your PoS coin.

In Bitcoin Security ,
Is it the High PoW Hash rate that keep it secure
or
is it the Fact that the top 4 mining pool operators have so far agreed not to collude their over 51%
and double spend or other shenanigans.

And yes, we all know miners can point their miners at different pools,
but the point is , those 4 pool operators only need 3 to 6 confirmations to double-spend, where it can't be undone
so ~1 hour for them to totally destroy bitcoin security as you know it.
Odds are the miners would not even find out for 4 to 6 hours after it happened.
https://medium.com/mit-media-lab-digital-currency-initiative/who-is-monitoring-mining-pools-65de79b90710

If that is secure to you, good for you.  

However a PoS coin such as Cardano has 2,523 Active Pools.
So for me , I'll sleep better with Cardano security ,not to mention it's energy efficiency means no government has to ban it.

Bitcoin only offers ~7 transactions per second, Cardano offers 256 transactions per second.
Bitcoin   Blockspeed 10 minutes
Cardano Blockspeed 20 seconds
 
To me Cardano wins hands down, but I also am not following bitcoin like a religion.  

The actual tech specs are all that matter to me.

FYI:
Cost for the Bitcoin Pool operators to 51% attack the BTC network is $Zero  .
Cost for an outside entity to 51% attack BTC is $612,664, for an hour-long 51% attack.
source: https://www.jumpstartmag.com/understanding-51-attacks-on-blockchains/

Cost for an entity to 51% attack Cardano, is ~$24 Billion US Dollars, for even a short 1 hour attack.
And that is only if buying up the Cardano does not raise the price per coin. Which it would.
Plus spending ~$24 billion just to destroy the value of that money , is not a wise choice.  
I feel safer with Proof of Stake coin Cardano, but that is just me.

[Nunoluck]

The most important thing is the performance or the advantage of the money. Many companies destroy our planet little by little, although some of them said that they just "we safe the earth by creating this and that products" but I think they just don't realize it yet. If all companies do their job in the right way then maybe we will not hear about global warming, polution and etc. Even I don't think that electric car company really don't make any polution. Steel, ruber, glass and etc are needed in order to make a car, and I am not sure that in the process of making of that there is no negative impact for earth. I think if bitcoin spread evenly and the price become more stable it can safe many people life. People will be safe from inflation that make them poor. In my opinion fiat makes us poor, holding fiat for years is not an investment, it is just make us poorer evertime because of inflation. So bitcoin will not fall only because of that.

[wendy sy]

From the recent policies introduced by some countries, it can be seen that energy shortages do affect the development and mining of Bitcoin, but this will not cause the collapse of Bitcoin, because countries like Iran have only temporarily banned them. In fact, they Still have to continue mining, and according to research shows that mining consumes very little energy, and they are mining in some areas with more hydropower energy, not only does not cause excessive energy consumption, but also makes energy distribution more reasonable.

[romero121]

Energy consumption is much into discussion these days, and the big controversy is now once again getting shattered by Elon Musk. It is also stated that, banks now consume more power than the bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. With time, efficiency is getting achieved on bitcoin mining equipments. Based on this I don't think energy consumption will set to be a big issue in the future.

[Barry Mantle]

Bitcoin's energy consumption is just one of the minor issues. Many countries prohibit Bitcoin mining and other activities, which also reflects from the side that these countries want to regulate these mining activities, whether it will affect their country's legal currency, so Some countries will take measures against Bitcoin.

[dimonstration]

From the recent policies introduced by some countries, it can be seen that energy shortages do affect the development and mining of Bitcoin, but this will not cause the collapse of Bitcoin, because countries like Iran have only temporarily banned them. In fact, they Still have to continue mining, and according to research shows that mining consumes very little energy, and they are mining in some areas with more hydropower energy, not only does not cause excessive energy consumption, but also makes energy distribution more reasonable.

There are already miners who make it as their business so even there are increased in energy consumption they can still sustain it provided they already have many apparatus uses in their business. Some might use solar to continuous their business. this is good to big miners but for individuals who just use their own electricity it can be a lose in their profit but not in bitcoin.

[romero121]

From the recent policies introduced by some countries, it can be seen that energy shortages do affect the development and mining of Bitcoin, but this will not cause the collapse of Bitcoin, because countries like Iran have only temporarily banned them. In fact, they Still have to continue mining, and according to research shows that mining consumes very little energy, and they are mining in some areas with more hydropower energy, not only does not cause excessive energy consumption, but also makes energy distribution more reasonable.

There are already miners who make it as their business so even there are increased in energy consumption they can still sustain it provided they already have many apparatus uses in their business. Some might use solar to continuous their business. this is good to big miners but for individuals who just use their own electricity it can be a lose in their profit but not in bitcoin.

With small scale miners the better option is to increase the capital investment and setup solar power/other means of sustainable energy for mining needs. During the year of 2018 myself spend around $15000 on mining, and if I've bought some cryptocurrency and kept hold of it I could've earned big by this bull market. So, I personally suggest to invest on much expected small price cryptocurrencies and leave it for years than getting into mining.

[Ozero]

The problem of energy consumption when mining bitcoin has already been raised and it must be addressed, otherwise many large investors will stop investing in bitcoin. This will lead to a drop in demand for it and, of course, a drop in its price. It seems to me that there was a fairly large vulnerability in bitcoin. The problem of energy consumption, and not from renewable sources, is now very urgent in connection with the sharp changes in climate. It seems that bitcoin will have a very difficult time in the near future.

[Henrobakkara]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

I don't think energy consumption will result in Bitcoin's downfall. Bitcoin miners will always move towards any means that will be better in the coming future for Bitcoin mining. This is natural since the general energy consumption is moving towards that direction anyways and I see Bitcoin miners going that route.

[electronicash]

CZ tweeted https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1399195759140954112

When you use electricity to run cars, it’s environmentally friendly.
When you use electricity to run the most efficient financial networks in the world, it’s an environmental concern.

this tweet retweets and received likes more than his usual tweets. you can see the media that surrounds elon had not even thought of pointing electricity issues.

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

I don't think energy consumption will result in Bitcoin's downfall. Bitcoin miners will always move towards any means that will be better in the coming future for Bitcoin mining. This is natural since the general energy consumption is moving towards that direction anyways and I see Bitcoin miners going that route.

it's not a bitcoin downfall but will just adjust the price for a bit because they can make it happen. miners will play along if the law will make it illegal for not using green source.

[mrongoz22]

will energy consumption be the crash of bitcoin`` bitcoin has been operating for a long time, actually it's been almost 13 years, why is it only now that people say bitcoin has fallen because of energy, why from the past, after elon musk negative tweets about bitcoin, now it has spread to other things other things, I think this is all made by greedy rich people, who want to take advantage of adversity...

[rodskee]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

How can be the downfall of Bitcoin if there is a possibilities that sooner energy consumptions will be the main goal of bitcoin developments?

yeah now there is a large energy consumptions of Bitcoin mining but we also knew that nowadays there are only small bitcoin amount are available to be mined.

will energy consumption be the crash of bitcoin`` bitcoin has been operating for a long time, actually it's been almost 13 years,

It is not the longevity but what is the effect to the world now.

why is it only now that people say bitcoin has fallen because of energy, why from the past, after elon musk negative tweets about bitcoin, now it has spread to other things other things, I think this is all made by greedy rich people, who want to take advantage of adversity...

Sorry but since the beginning of my journey here, there are already existing issue like this.

[Gatorelf]

From the recent policies introduced by some countries, it can be seen that energy shortages do affect the development and mining of Bitcoin, but this will not cause the collapse of Bitcoin, because countries like Iran have only temporarily banned them. In fact, they Still have to continue mining, and according to research shows that mining consumes very little energy, and they are mining in some areas with more hydropower energy, not only does not cause excessive energy consumption, but also makes energy distribution more reasonable.

There are already miners who make it as their business so even there are increased in energy consumption they can still sustain it provided they already have many apparatus uses in their business. Some might use solar to continuous their business. this is good to big miners but for individuals who just use their own electricity it can be a lose in their profit but not in bitcoin.

With small scale miners the better option is to increase the capital investment and setup solar power/other means of sustainable energy for mining needs. During the year of 2018 myself spend around $15000 on mining, and if I've bought some cryptocurrency and kept hold of it I could've earned big by this bull market. So, I personally suggest to invest on much expected small price cryptocurrencies and leave it for years than getting into mining.

Solar is great but only good for 10 hours a day and on clear days to boot. That also doesn't change the fact of the disadvantage of needing so much power for POW vs a crypto such as NANO

CZ tweeted https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1399195759140954112

When you use electricity to run cars, it’s environmentally friendly.
When you use electricity to run the most efficient financial networks in the world, it’s an environmental concern.

this tweet retweets and received likes more than his usual tweets. you can see the media that surrounds elon had not even thought of pointing electricity issues.

The electric car movement was more about for every electric car there was one less gasoline air polluting vehicle on the road. Volvo is going total electric. 

[aysg76]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

If you talk about other alts based on pos or some other algorithm then it work as more centralized base system to the rich and superior ones and if you wish to invest in them then nobody's gonna stop you but don't ask for Bitcoin like security.Did this energy consumption has increased suddenly after the Musk comments and some government statement? The miners need to put more effort to mine block with increasing difficulty and providing security to the network.Many mining pools are finding alternative ways to mine Bitcoin using renewable sources because electric consumption also reduces their profitability.They are reluctant to find some alternates for this.But one thing is for sure Bitcoin is not going to be dead inspite of many FUD in the market like in the past.

[ropyu1978]

the fall of bitcoin was due to energy problems, in my opinion it was just a gimmick,, all of it was just a trick of billionaires to scare beginners, in order to collect bitcoins, once a year bitcoin there must be a price drop, why when bitcoin falls everyone posts negative things about bitcoin,, why when the price starts to stabilize everyone is silent, and enjoys what they get.. stop saying bitcoin is falling in price because of energy..

[Gatorelf]

Just as people moved from gasoline powered cars to electric will investors also move from bitcoin to ecofriendly alts?

If you talk about other alts based on pos or some other algorithm then it work as more centralized base system to the rich and superior ones and if you wish to invest in them then nobody's gonna stop you but don't ask for Bitcoin like security. Did this energy consumption has increased suddenly after the Musk comments and some government statement? The miners need to put more effort to mine block with increasing difficulty and providing security to the network. Many mining pools are finding alternative ways to mine Bitcoin using renewable sources because electric consumption also reduces their profitability. They are reluctant to find some alternates for this. But one thing is for sure Bitcoin is not going to be dead inspite of many FUD in the market like in the past.

  I did invest in many alts, DASH,LTC,ETH, MONA XMR + BTC and physical BTC Casascius pre $500. I've had the concern over POW mining since then, its only come to mainstream attention after Musk now that he has the worlds attention. Another celebrity type mentioned it in 2016/17 when he moved a mining operation to Washington state but many didn't listen to him as some think he is nuts anyway lol. But that was John McAfee, he is currently facing federal charges for falsely promoting cryptocurrency through his twitter account while his buds sold it. I dont think BTC will ever die either however I can envision it loosing market dominance down to 10% in the next ten years.

the fall of bitcoin was due to energy problems, in my opinion it was just a gimmick,, all of it was just a trick of billionaires to scare beginners, in order to collect bitcoins, once a year bitcoin there must be a price drop, why when bitcoin falls everyone posts negative things about bitcoin,, why when the price starts to stabilize everyone is silent, and enjoys what they get.. stop saying bitcoin is falling in price because of energy..

over $500 Billion left the market that was more than just beginners  

[Lorence.xD]

If we continue to ignore the issue, pretty sure something will replace bitcoin in it's high chair. But I don't think that we will have to worry too much about it since it will be a long time and most minings in bitcoin are slowly moving to renewable energy.

[TangentC]

If we continue to ignore the issue, pretty sure something will replace bitcoin in it's high chair. But I don't think that we will have to worry too much about it since it will be a long time and most minings in bitcoin are slowly moving to renewable energy.

Moving to renewables would end the carbon debate on bitcoin,
but sadly it does not remove the raising the prices or blacking out a power grid debates that cause the banning of PoW mining.

For Bitcoin energy usage not to keep getting banned.
It must find a way to quit raising energy prices on others and quit causing blackouts on the power grids
putting others in danger, by not having heat or AC, or being able to refrigerate/cook food.
God forbid a Hospital is on the same grid as a few warehouse of miners if their is a major drain on the grid such as a heatwave or massive cold snap.

If you look at China, most miners were on Hydroelectric plants,
China still kicked them out, reason they used more than the surrounding populace and drove prices up and increases the potential for black outs, which put the populace in danger especially during their record cold spell last winter.
No one freezing to death in subzero temperatures cares at all about the btc network.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LjEMDoYEzM

So renewables would not be the 100% solution, a major design change is required,
either move to PoS , or find another way that is not an insane energy wasting system.
A design change is the only real solution in the long run.

[Abiky]

Energy consumption is much into discussion these days, and the big controversy is now once again getting shattered by Elon Musk. It is also stated that, banks now consume more power than the bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. With time, efficiency is getting achieved on bitcoin mining equipments. Based on this I don't think energy consumption will set to be a big issue in the future.

Exactly. I don't get what the big deal is about Bitcoin's energy consumption, when existing financial institutions consume more energy than Bitcoin on a daily basis. It's all failed attempt to spread FUD in order to lure people away from Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. Bitcoin can be much greener than what it is right now, if miners rely on alternative energy sources. Imagine how Bitcoin would benefit the environment if most ASIC machines relied on solar or wind energy. With how fast our world is changing, we might see this become a reality sometime in the future. Since PoW is the most secure (and decentralized) consensus algorithm to date, it's hard to believe Bitcoin will switch to PoS anytime soon. On the contrary, Bitcoin will remain as a PoW cryptocurrency while the rest of the altcoins will switch to PoS in order to "tackle" the high energy consumption. Ethereum will switch to PoS, and other PoW-based cryptocurrencies will follow as the PoS hype comes into fruition. I wouldn't worry about Elon Musk abandoning Bitcoin in favor for another altcoin, as long as the pioneer cryptocurrency as some loyal supporters behind it. Just my opinion