I will never buy a Tesla car

[rodneyTG]

Ignore stereotypes against Tesla and Elon Musk, buy a car to travel and go to far places, choose a gasoline-powered car because they are easier to refuel. If you have to find a place to recharge and wait for the battery to be fully charged, you will lose your precious time. Not to mention the experience of a gasoline-powered car can be better.

Well, everything changes, and maybe ten years from now, there would be more electricity charging stations than regular ones. Anyways, you can always get a Tesla for your specific needs whenever you want. I like to use online resource to rent Tesla for the minimal prices. They always offer Tesla in the best conditions possible, and for the lowest prices, which is pretty great for me.

[BernyJB]

Ignore stereotypes against Tesla and Elon Musk, buy a car to travel and go to far places, choose a gasoline-powered car because they are easier to refuel. If you have to find a place to recharge and wait for the battery to be fully charged, you will lose your precious time. Not to mention the experience of a gasoline-powered car can be better.

Well, everything changes, and maybe ten years from now, there would be more electricity charging stations than regular ones.

Maybe. We never know what the future will bring. But, right now, electric cars are are a wealthy-tree-hugger's-pipe-dream (pretty much as cars in general used to be in the beginning).
There are several technologies (REAL technologies, not scams) competing to take the place of fossil fueled cars, and each one has its pros and cons. In many cases, the technology itself is immature, not ready for mass production. That is, IMO, the case with electric cars, and solar powered cars, for example.
You don't think about it, but when you go to the gas station, you're getting an enormous amount of energy (safely) in seconds, and an ICE today is a sophisticated, very reliable machine. Instead of that, charging an electric car takes hours, and fast charging it is akin to playing Russian Roulette, and when you put an electric car on the street you KNOW you will have to spend thousands of dollars on a replacement battery, and, contrarily to gasoline or diesel powered cars, batteries come with NO WARRANTY, so you may end up having to replace it tomorrow.

Again, nobody in their right mind would argue that there are not better alternatives. But most of them are far from ready.
Electric cars have existed pretty much since cars have. Solar has existed for decades, but it's still far from ready. Right now, the two technologies that are suitable and more than ready (they've been in use since the beginning), are ethanol and biodiesel (and SVO by extension), and in this case I do agree there's a more-than-fair amount of misinformation being pushed on people, not because they may be "the end of fossil fuels" (we're far from that), but because it gives people the chance to produce their own fuel for pennies on the dollar, and it can be used in largely unmodified engines.

[Gosgosking]

I will get it if it has the kind of quality I love in a car and if it is not very expensive.  Me not telsa  car does not solve any issue between must and bitcoin . If I don't buy it I don't think it gonna affect musk in anyway .

[Tash]

.................... batteries come with NO WARRANTY, .....................

Well no batteries do come with warranty. Model S and X cars have Panasonic manufactured batteries. Panasonic gives warranty and specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell. Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes as-with voiding the warranty. Tesla decides to kill warranty by choice. Thats for the "18650" type batterie, the new inhouse made (gigafactory) 2170 type (21 mm diameter and 70 high cells) its another ball game. Other automakers excluding the engine from warranty its the end but we are talking about tesla customers....
Why is it called  "Tesla" anyway, Nikola Tesla was all about alternating current (AC) and Edison direct current (DC) and even made electric cars.

[BernyJB]

Well no batteries do come with warranty. Model S and X cars have Panasonic manufactured batteries. Panasonic gives warranty and specifies a maximum charging current of 2 amperes per cell. Tesla allows charging current to be up to 4 amperes as-with voiding the warranty. Tesla decides to kill warranty by choice. Thats for the "18650" type batterie, the new inhouse made (gigafactory) 2170 type (21 mm diameter and 70 high cells) its another ball game. Other automakers excluding the engine from warranty its the end but we are talking about tesla customers....
Why is it called  "Tesla" anyway, Nikola Tesla was all about alternating current (AC) and Edison direct current (DC) and even made electric cars.

No, from a technical standpoint, they don't. The "warranty" some battery manufacturers offer is a marketing trap.
You don't "choose" what charging current you will use on a battery: when you discharge a battery you form metal ions within the electrolyte. The ONLY way to dissolve those ions is to recharge the battery with a current similar to the discharge current. Otherwise, those ions will accumulate, eventually turning the electrolyte conductive, and short circuiting the battery (and, at the usual numbers on a Tesla car, most likely producing a fire or an explosion). Is not like "Elon Musk "chose" to kill the warranty", like you say. There are technical limitations to consider.

[Tash]

................There are technical limitations to consider.

And Panasonic the manufacturer of the Tesla used 18650 (18 mm diameter x 65 mm high) batteries specified it to be max 2 amp per cell.
You can choose to charge it at a slower rate but "cooking" it a 4 amp will void warranty, Tesla said fine, will do so, will charge at "fast" charge rate.
The 100 kW model has 16 pack with 516 cells each for a total of 8256 cells, the most popular model has 7104 cells, 16 packs of 444 cells each.
Charging 4,2 volt (3.7 use) and 4 amp is 16.8 watt x 8256 = 138.7 kW
With the new Tesla inhouse produced batteries (2170) any warranty discussion is of the table because they know charging at that many amps will lead to early death as it is above the technical limitations.
A friend of mine has a model X 100 D,  i been riding in the junk more offten than you think.

[BernyJB]

................There are technical limitations to consider.

And Panasonic the manufacturer of the Tesla used 18650 (18 mm diameter x 65 mm high) batteries specified it to be max 2 amp per cell.
You can choose to charge it at a slower rate but "cooking" it a 4 amp will void warranty, Tesla said fine, will do so.

Tesla "chose" to void the warranty because the warranty is BULLSHIT!
You understand that concept?
You have a car, you have a limited amount of space you can use, and weight you can carry, not to mention a maximum price you can pay. You make do with what you have, as Tesla did.

A friend of mine has a model X 100 D,  i been riding in the junk more offten than you think.

Yeah, clearly.
BTW, my background is in electronics, and I've been at it for the last 43 years. I think I know a thing or two about batteries.

[Tash]

................There are technical limitations to consider.

And Panasonic the manufacturer of the Tesla used 18650 (18 mm diameter x 65 mm high) batteries specified it to be max 2 amp per cell.
You can choose to charge it at a slower rate but "cooking" it a 4 amp will void warranty, Tesla said fine, will do so.

Tesla "chose" to void the warranty because the warranty is BULLSHIT!
You understand that concept?
You have a car, you have a limited amount of space you can use, and weight you can carry, not to mention a maximum price you can pay. You make do with what you have, as Tesla did.

A friend of mine has a model X 100 D,  i been riding in the junk more offten than you think.

Yeah, clearly.
BTW, my background is in electronics, and I've been at it for the last 43 years. I think I know a thing or two about batteries.

Anyone in electronic for 43 years knows real progress, development and investments has been with capacitors, with market exploding to over half a million types. Batteries on the other hand is dying tech and has not managed to grow beyond some hundred types.
Capacitors is heart and soul of electronics, batteries is in the realms of consumer gadgetry. Batteries is kind of a embarrassment for real electronic guys.
Don't care what you think, i know how very well how much time wasted with detours and hanging on a cable when trying to get something done.

[BernyJB]

Anyone in electronic for 43 years knows real progress, development and investments has been with capacitors, with market exploding to over half a million types. Batteries on the other hand is dying tech and has not managed to grow beyond some hundred types.
Capacitors is heart and soul of electronics, batteries is in the realms of consumer gadgetry. Batteries is kind of a embarrassment for real electronic guys.
Don't care what you think, i know how very well how much time wasted with detours and hanging on a cable when trying to get something done.

Yeah. Anyone in electronics for A MONTH knows batteries and capacitors are the same thing. A battery is just a very big capacitor.
Also, anyone in electronics knows "progress" is not measured by the number of new technologies found, but by the quality of the technologies.
BTW, capacitors are not the heart of electronics: semiconductors are.

[Tash]

............ A battery is just a very big capacitor.
......
BTW, capacitors are not the heart of electronics: semiconductors are.

Yeh, sure they are try charging - discharge a batterie multitude times per second and then tell me what happend to the "bigger" capacitor. lol
Alright one of or major part.

Play with real toys not something you familiar with like batterie packs for RC cars.
https://youtu.be/NnwfNMrjzzA

[BernyJB]

............ A battery is just a very big capacitor.
......
BTW, capacitors are not the heart of electronics: semiconductors are.

Yeh, sure they are try charging - discharge a batterie multitude times per second and then tell me what happend to the "bigger" capacitor. lol
Alright one of or major part.

Yeah, I'm not gonna waste my time (nor help you derail this thread any further) by giving you an electronics class. If you want to learn, go to school.

[Tash]

More bad news, that is the problem with a proven failed and failed again product like EV
https://redrightvideos.com/bad-news-for-biden-and-electric-vehicle-market/

[Cnut237]

I'm not going to get a Tesla. Never.

Regardless of your feelings towards Elon Musk, he's definitely got closer than anyone else to putting a lambo on the moon... which is what we're all here for, right?
The closest I've got is riding a bike off a ramp. But maybe one day if I make enough BTC I can realise my dream of driving a golf buggy out of a flying aircraft (with a parachute and other safety equipment, of course, I'm not an idiot).

[thirdeyeopen76]

Anyone stupid enough to think there are better and/or less expensive vehicles than a Tesla or thinks other vehicles can do what theirs can, you are vastly uninformed, ignorant, and probably the type of person who is extremely jealous of others...

• Fully loaded Tesla Cybertruck: $80,000
• Fully loaded Rivian R1T: $98,000
• Fully loaded Ford F-150 Lightning: $90,500
• Fully loaded Hummer EV: $112,600

Guess which car is the fastest, has the longest range, is bulletproof, has the largest charging network, can drive itself, is the cheapest and has the best interface?  Ya, not even a comparison.  You'd have to be an absolute moron to think there are cheaper/better vehicles out there.  Not only is that a blatant lie based on jealously and ignorance, no other car can even do what Tesla's Cybertruck can, so in reality there isn't even competition for it.  Nothing compares.  Add in bulletproofing for those other vehicles, additional batteries to match Tesla's range, additional motors to match it's speed, the cost of building out a better charging network, and these cars would easily be 2 or 3 times the price of the Cybertruck...

You guys can buy your vehicles based on your emotions and spread lies about others if you want.  God help you if your car runs into mine though...  Your emotions and fiberglass body might tell a different story about what is "better" when it meets a several thousand pound block of cold rolled steel.

EDIT: When you get into the non-fully loaded options, Tesla shines even more by absolutely destroying the competition on price as well as the other metrics listed.  I was being generous using the fully loaded models...  Imagine what kind of a snowflake pansy you'd have to be to not want a bulletproof truck or think of it as a bad thing.  LOL.  As for the cars, obviously they're so far ahead of what else is available that it isn't even worth making the comparison to other electrics and if you're still buying combustion engine powered vehicles then I've got an old tube television to sell you that you're gonna love.

My GF is buying the Ford Lightning. Wish she'd switch to the Tesla.

[countryfree]

Anyone in electronic for 43 years knows real progress, development and investments has been with capacitors, with market exploding to over half a million types. Batteries on the other hand is dying tech and has not managed to grow beyond some hundred types.
Capacitors is heart and soul of electronics, batteries is in the realms of consumer gadgetry. Batteries is kind of a embarrassment for real electronic guys.
Don't care what you think, i know how very well how much time wasted with detours and hanging on a cable when trying to get something done.

Yeah. Anyone in electronics for A MONTH knows batteries and capacitors are the same thing. A battery is just a very big capacitor.
Also, anyone in electronics knows "progress" is not measured by the number of new technologies found, but by the quality of the technologies.
BTW, capacitors are not the heart of electronics: semiconductors are.

No, sir. Batteries and capacitors are different tech.
Also, for any given quantity of energy, a capacitor will always be much bigger, and heavier, than a battery.

[Tash]

Anyone in electronic for 43 years knows real progress, development and investments has been with capacitors, with market exploding to over half a million types. Batteries on the other hand is dying tech and has not managed to grow beyond some hundred types.
Capacitors is heart and soul of electronics, batteries is in the realms of consumer gadgetry. Batteries is kind of a embarrassment for real electronic guys.
Don't care what you think, i know how very well how much time wasted with detours and hanging on a cable when trying to get something done.

Yeah. Anyone in electronics for A MONTH knows batteries and capacitors are the same thing. A battery is just a very big capacitor.
Also, anyone in electronics knows "progress" is not measured by the number of new technologies found, but by the quality of the technologies.
BTW, capacitors are not the heart of electronics: semiconductors are.

No, sir. Batteries and capacitors are different tech.
Also, for any given quantity of energy, a capacitor will always be much bigger, and heavier, than a battery.

Actually Biden and BernyJB the same.

Capacitor are electical charged, Battery store chemical energy.
Capacitor can have crazy fast charge-discharge cycle, doing it with a Battery gives a nice fire.
Capacitor can be AC (run/start AC motor) or DC, no such thing as a AC Battery.
Capacitor long life span (million plus cycles), Battery much shorter lifespan (less than 1k)
Capacitor energy stored is less then 10 Wh/kg with Batteries is over 100
Capacitor power per kg can be almost 10000 watt, Batterie maxes out at about 3k
Not sure (havn't been 43 years in electronics) but i think there is no such thing as a current regulator for capacitor, its either on or not.
Capacitor is active development, Batterie is more or less dead tech, cheaper better systems of energy storage is available

[CryptoKingh]

If you like the Tesla car then go and get it or just buy anything you wanted. Tesla is actually a good electric car at affordable price.

[BernyJB]

No, sir. Batteries and capacitors are different tech.
Also, for any given quantity of energy, a capacitor will always be much bigger, and heavier, than a battery.

Nobody is talking tech, and if you read my post, you will see I said "batteries are big capacitors".
So, yeah, they're different tech, the operating principle is the same, both are ways to store energy in form of an electric field.

[CryptoKingh]

No, sir. Batteries and capacitors are different tech.
Also, for any given quantity of energy, a capacitor will always be much bigger, and heavier, than a battery.

Nobody is talking tech, and if you read my post, you will see I said "batteries are big capacitors".
So, yeah, they're different tech, the operating principle is the same, both are ways to store energy in form of an electric field.

I agree with your words. But Tesla car is a good electric car at an affordable price.

[BernyJB]

I agree with your words. But Tesla car is a good electric car at an affordable price.

I never argued that. If you look at my first post on this thread (#54) you'll see I stated I don't like electric cars and I don't have the money. Never said a single word about quality or cost.

To make it more clear: about 80% of the electricity generated in the US is fossil fuel derived, so "in theory", you're saving 20% carbon emissions, at the very best. In reality, once you factor in conversion losses, that number quickly becomes negligible.
On the other hand (affordability wise), the moment you buy an electric car you're assuming the cost of replacement batteries, and they're not cheap. I have personally seen (an acquaintance bought it) an Acura Integra that had gone 279000 miles on nothing but consumables (oil, filters, spark plugs, brakes), just because its previous owner was very rigorous on its maintenance. Try that with an electric car.

And, finally, there are the technology's "other" shortcomings. Lack of charging points, time to charge, danger, and so on. I'm sure most of them (if not all) will be addressed in due time, but they're not there yet. As I said it before, there are other technologies that could be applied today, to existing vehicles, with minimal or no modifications, and have been proven to work from the very beginning.