El Salvador has become the first country to make #Bitcoin legal tender! 🇸🇻

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>

I believe the total amount is now really 2.301 BTCs:

1391 BTCs as of beginning of year 2022 (as per this balance).
 410 BTCs bought in January 2022
 500 BTCs bought yesterday

All in all pretty bold (I’ll leave it there for now), considering the circumstances, and the growing rumours of the country nearing default. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that though, amongst other things, to avoid it being blamed on having adopted bitcoin, which would seem to be a shallow excuse.

[1714951250]

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[1714951250]

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[1714951250]

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[Vaskiy]

<…>

I believe the total amount is now really 2.301 BTCs:

1391 BTCs as of beginning of year 2022 (as per this balance).
 410 BTCs bought in January 2022
 500 BTCs bought yesterday

All in all pretty bold (I’ll leave it there for now), considering the circumstances, and the growing rumours of the country nearing default. Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that though, amongst other things, to avoid it being blamed on having adopted bitcoin, which would seem to be a shallow excuse.

It was a mistake. By now the entire reserve of El Salvador in terms of bitcoin counts to be 2301 bitcoins. During the month of November there was a buy of 100 btc and during December there were two buy order of 150 btc and 21 btc. Adding those to the reserve, the calculation is correct for 2301 bitcoins. Purchase History

[TelolettOm]

It was a mistake. By now the entire reserve of El Salvador in terms of bitcoin counts to be 2301 bitcoins. During the month of November there was a buy of 100 btc and during December there were two buy order of 150 btc and 21 btc. Adding those to the reserve, the calculation is correct for 2301 bitcoins. Purchase History

So far, I myself only know their purchase history, I don't know their selling history. If you know it, please share it with me?
Surely it is a mistake if they are still holding all their purchasing BTC till now. And I'm starting to doubt El Salvador's ability in crypto investment. I mean, they must know if are heading to the bearish market, where the price of Bitcoin will freefall. It is suicide if they continue to purchase, then they keep the Bitcoin for a long holding. But I'm still trying to trust El Salvador government, they must be not so dumb to manage BTC investment carelessly. They should have a reason to continue buying although most people think it isn't the right time to buy.

[Charles-Tim]

So far, I myself only know their purchase history, I don't know their selling history. If you know it, please share it with me?

El Salvador has never sold any bitcoin, they purchase the bitcoin for Salvadorans to buy and sell (to make payment) in bitcoin as an alternative to US dollar (fiat used in the country) with cheap fee because the coins bought by El Salvador are centralized and make fast transaction and cheap fee possible. El Salvador is not buying bitcoin to be selling it, even if El Salvador will sell, I think not for now.

Surely it is a mistake if they are still holding all their purchasing BTC till now. And I'm starting to doubt El Salvador's ability in crypto investment.

You just meant that it is a mistake for El Salvador to hold what its citizens are using to make crypto payment which is bitcoin and also saying that it is a mistake for El Salvador to have bitcoin in reserve for the next bull market. Or you want El Salvador to be a bitcoin trader and leave holding that will certainly be profitable later in long term. You are making a wrong statement there.

I mean, they must know if are heading to the bearish market, where the price of Bitcoin will freefall. It is suicide if they continue to purchase, then they keep the Bitcoin for a long holding.

Bitcoin falled from $69000 to $30700 and El Salvador bought another amount of bitcoin, isn't that good enough, that is wise enough and a good investment strategy. Or you want El Salvador to sell at $30000? If bitcoin still fall, do not be surprised if El Salvador buy more bitcoin.

But I'm still trying to trust El Salvador government, they must be not so dumb to manage BTC investment carelessly. They should have a reason to continue buying although most people think it isn't the right time to buy.

You do not have to trust El Salvador, another bitcoin all-time-high will convince people like you once again.

[Odusko]

So far, I myself only know their purchase history, I don't know their selling history. If you know it, please share it with me?
Surely it is a mistake if they are still holding all their purchasing BTC till now. And I'm starting to doubt El Salvador's ability in crypto investment. I mean, they must know if are heading to the bearish market, where the price of Bitcoin will freefall. It is suicide if they continue to purchase, then they keep the Bitcoin for a long holding. But I'm still trying to trust the El Salvador government, they must be not so dumb as to manage BTC investment carelessly. They should have a reason to continue buying although most people think it isn't the right time to buy.

One thing we must understand is the fact that El Salvador is not in for Bitcoin as an investment but as a currency and this is why the President legalized it as a currency that will serve as an alternative to traditional currency, that is why El Salvador never mind the price of Bitcoin anytime their feel like adding Bitcoin to the country Bitcoin reserve.
So their more interested in the quantity of Bitcoin which is what the El Salvador Bitcoin law is calculated on and not on its US dollar values. So don't use Bitcoin price to judge El Salvador's performance in terms of development as Bitcoin price is always volatile.

[TelolettOm]

You just meant that it is a mistake for El Salvador to hold what its citizens are using to make crypto payment which is bitcoin and also saying that it is a mistake for El Salvador to have bitcoin in reserve for the next bull market. Or you want El Salvador to be a bitcoin trader and leave holding that will certainly be profitable later in long term. You are making a wrong statement there.

I don't blame El Salvador. It is their money, not my money. They are free to decide everything they want.
I only viewed this from the investment side. In my humble opinion, it is not a wise decision if they buy at the wrong time. They can wait for buying at the dip, not hurry to buy in every drop of BTC price. They must know BTC price history and they should know when the best time to buy.
But I don't care whether El Salvador wants to keep it for investment or payment tool, they know what the best for them. I only share my opinion based on my own assumption.

[d5000]

They must know BTC price history and they should know when the best time to buy.

Sorry, that is impossible - otherwise we'd be all rich

There is something called the Efficient-market Hypothesis. You can never really predict the price. If you did it once, then ... you were just lucky. Market forces are usually strong enough to counter distortions in upside or downside direction.

It's maybe true that you can spot some moments in time where it would be dumb to buy. For example, in late 2017 Bitcoin's price rallied so hard (many days with 5-15% growth per day!) that it was almost for sure in a bubble and a crash was a matter of time. But in 2021 the price evolution didn't have that nature; it grew, but in a way it looked pretty natural and "healthy".

Now, a couple of months later, of course one can say that the buy of >400 BTC at $58000 wasn't good - but that buy came at times where people talked about Stock-to-flow and the price soon would reach $100.000 or even more. But from now's perspective, the buy at $30.000 seems reasonable. We don't know how low it can go; if it goes to $20K then the best thing El Salvador can do is buy again, so the average buying price keeps going down. And once the price start to rally again they can say they were right

[DdmrDdmr]

<…>

Actually, they’re in on it on both accounts. Part of the planned deal seems to be to make money out of bitcoin, enabling them to do things with the derived surplus. The Pet Hospital was one of those things explicitly attributed to this strategy, which led them to withdraw fiat to cover it from their 150 M $ Trust, allegedly created to give liquidity to fiat <-> bitcoin conversions within the Chivo System. The surplus, at the time of the announcement of the Pet Hospital, was really theoretical, since they haven’t, to our knowledge, sold any BTCs from the acquired batches. That represents an issue currently on the books.

They probably had/have a similar idea with the volcano bitcoin bonds, toying around with the idea of BTC going up during the ten years that the bonds were/are intended to extend to before recovering the principal.

[savetheFORUM]

So far, I myself only know their purchase history, I don't know their selling history. If you know it, please share it with me?
Surely it is a mistake if they are still holding all their purchasing BTC till now. And I'm starting to doubt El Salvador's ability in crypto investment. I mean, they must know if are heading to the bearish market, where the price of Bitcoin will freefall. It is suicide if they continue to purchase, then they keep the Bitcoin for a long holding. But I'm still trying to trust El Salvador government, they must be not so dumb to manage BTC investment carelessly. They should have a reason to continue buying although most people think it isn't the right time to buy.

Bitcoin at this moment of writing is now 30,752.50 usd. How come people think this isn't the right time to buy? This is already a great offer by btc but there's always people that are greedy and wanted to have more, not only in selling but also in terms of buying. If you guys know the purchase history of El Salvador then why not its selling history? But you can try checking their address in a bitcoin/blockchain explorer.

It's also possible that they haven't touch the btc they have since btc have been in long term dip. They are the first country to make bitcoin a legal tender so they should not act like a typical investors that will sells his btc for easy profits.

[Odusko]

<…>

Actually, they’re in on it both accounts. Part of the planned deal seems to be to make money out of bitcoin, enabling them to do things with the derived surplus. The Pet Hospital was one of those things explicitly attributed to this strategy, which led them to withdraw fiat to cover it from their 150 M $ Trust, allegedly created to give liquidity to fiat <-> bitcoin conversions within the Chivo System. The surplus, at the time of the announcement of the Pet Hospital, was theoretical, since they haven’t, to our knowledge, sold any BTCs from the acquired batches. That represents an issue currently on the books.

They probably had/have a similar idea with the volcano bitcoin bonds, toying around with the idea of BTC going up during the ten years that the bonds were/are intended to extend to before recovering the principal.

Thanks for schooling me on that, ten year recovery is quite enough time for the bound to have yield surplus profits if Bitcoin remains consistent with its price movement which is seen in how the price has constantly increased in the last decade of Bitcoin's existence. So if things go in favor of the President's policy on Bitcoin bound it would have yielded a 2x surplus which will become a big deal for the country reserve.

[dunfida]

<…>

Actually, they’re in on it both accounts. Part of the planned deal seems to be to make money out of bitcoin, enabling them to do things with the derived surplus. The Pet Hospital was one of those things explicitly attributed to this strategy, which led them to withdraw fiat to cover it from their 150 M $ Trust, allegedly created to give liquidity to fiat <-> bitcoin conversions within the Chivo System. The surplus, at the time of the announcement of the Pet Hospital, was theoretical, since they haven’t, to our knowledge, sold any BTCs from the acquired batches. That represents an issue currently on the books.

They probably had/have a similar idea with the volcano bitcoin bonds, toying around with the idea of BTC going up during the ten years that the bonds were/are intended to extend to before recovering the principal.

Thanks for schooling me on that, ten year recovery is quite enough time for the bound to have yield surplus profits if Bitcoin remains consistent with its price movement which is seen in how the price has constantly increased in the last decade of Bitcoin's existence. So if things go in favor of the President's policy on Bitcoin bound it would have yielded a 2x surplus which will become a big deal for the country reserve.

How they do deal up with the current price drop? For sure its president had already anticipate for this thing to happen.We dont know if they had accumulated more cheaper coins since the price had dropped

on low 27k as far as i remember.This is one of the risk you would need to face on whenever you do make out decision about making bitcoin as a legal tender.You cant just accept it just
because on its investment potential but of course you do accept it for its utility but it couldnt really be denied about that investment factor which do most people/country do really look upon.

[Doan9269]

One thing we must understand is the fact that El Salvador is not in for Bitcoin as an investment but as a currency

No, they adopt bitcoin as for the two major purpose of an investment asset and as a legal tender after carefully considering it value as an asset and not a liability neither does it have the FUD like most of the altcoins, no one will want to invest an asset on a liability with the rate of FOMO out there amidst investors.

I don't blame El Salvador. It is their money, not my money. They are free to decide everything they want.

El-Savador has done Justice to evade inflation or economic future crisis by the buy it incurred recently on bitcoin, Bukele has done well and has secured the future for the citizens, it is better to have such investment on bitcoin than other form of fiat asset they may later depreciate. kudos to Bukele.

[_act_]

One thing we must understand is the fact that El Salvador is not in for Bitcoin as an investment but as a currency and this is why the President legalized it as a currency that will serve as an alternative to traditional currency, that is why El Salvador never mind the price of Bitcoin anytime their feel like adding Bitcoin to the country Bitcoin reserve.
So their more interested in the quantity of Bitcoin which is what the El Salvador Bitcoin law is calculated on and not on its US dollar values. So don't use Bitcoin price to judge El Salvador's performance in terms of development as Bitcoin price is always volatile.

I too will say that, for anyone not to use the recent price decline of bitcoin to make wrong conclusion, bitcoin will rise again. But we that are not even in El Salvador, I have used bitcoin in making payments before many times, though it will be less often to if I am in El Salvador because I will make use of bitcoin for payment more often directly which will help me not converting my bitcoin first to fiiat because I do not have a lot in fiat, I have it in bitcoin.

El Salvador made bitcoin a legal tender, but in a way it is not compulsory for citizens, I have said this here countless numbers of times but some people do not want to understand this fact, yof Salvadorans like, they should not accept accept to receive bitcoin payment, they should accept USD instead, as simple ty as that, and what most of their citizens is doing but which can not change El Salvadorans to accept bitcoin if they want.

Nayib Bukele which is El Salvador president did not just made bitcoin a legal tender, his primary aim is that he knows bitcoin is an investment means, that is just the truth and it is obvious for us too see, that was why he bought bitcoin recently when the price falled. Citizens also can buy bitcoin and hold it in a way no one will say anything because El Salvador accept its citizens to buy and sell it if they want.

[tyz]

I too will say that, for anyone not to use the recent price decline of bitcoin to make wrong conclusion, bitcoin will rise again.

Yeap, remembers me to a friend with very week hands. Before Corona he bought Bitcon at about $11k. While Corona crash he sold at $4.6k even though I advised him to wait because I was convinced it will rise again. He did not hear and sold. After the crash and the fast rise of Bitcoin price he bought in again, very late at $48k. He told me yesterday that he sold again at $31k I have never sold, not during Corona, nor do I now.

[Zanab247]

When I first heard about him buying up more bitcoin due to the dip. I was saying, where is he getting all this capital to fiance these buys.
Atleast he can now fund those cryptocurrency projects which are on the to do list with the asset he is promoting for his country.

He has proven to people that there is profit  in cryptocurrency investment because for someone to used such amount of capital to purchase bitcoin, show that he has made a lot of profits from bitcoin investment. He has showed love to his country by advising the government to make bitcoin legal in the country so that their citizens can be able to feed well in the country. Many young investors want to follow his step to become successful like him in the future by increasing their capital to purchase a huge amount of bitcoin and hold for the price to increase higher before they can sell to earn well.

[romero121]

I too will say that, for anyone not to use the recent price decline of bitcoin to make wrong conclusion, bitcoin will rise again.

Yeap, remembers me to a friend with very week hands. Before Corona he bought Bitcon at about $11k. While Corona crash he sold at $4.6k even though I advised him to wait because I was convinced it will rise again. He did not hear and sold. After the crash and the fast rise of Bitcoin price he bought in again, very late at $48k. He told me yesterday that he sold again at $31k I have never sold, not during Corona, nor do I now.

Even now there are more panic sellers who doesn't believe the market bounce as well as doesn't have the right learning about the cryptocurrencies. They just fear and the same ends with selling on loss. Very few used to sell on circumstances as they won't be able to withstand the situation. Right now everyone should have the mind of El Salvador President Nayib Bukele, because he use every opportunity to make the country's bitcoin reserve stronger with time.

[Wiwo]

I too will say that, for anyone not to use the recent price decline of bitcoin to make wrong conclusion, bitcoin will rise again.

Yeap, remembers me to a friend with very week hands. Before Corona he bought Bitcon at about $11k. While Corona crash he sold at $4.6k even though I advised him to wait because I was convinced it will rise again. He did not hear and sold. After the crash and the fast rise of Bitcoin price he bought in again, very late at $48k. He told me yesterday that he sold again at $31k I have never sold, not during Corona, nor do I now.

Even now there are more panic sellers who doesn't believe the market bounce as well as doesn't have the right learning about the cryptocurrencies. They just fear and the same ends with selling on loss. Very few used to sell on circumstances as they won't be able to withstand the situation. Right now everyone should have the mind of El Salvador President Nayib Bukele because he uses every opportunity to make the country's bitcoin reserve stronger with time.

Even now the El Salvador President should be given a hero bag in Bitcoin because he deserves it as a young guy who has the opportunity of making a change in the system he is was built into but as a young intelligent President who understood the demands of this generation and going ahead to make the change happen in his time, I highly recommended act and the second reason is that the president is knowledgeable enough to always make good use of each opportunity the Bitcoin market present to starch more Bitcoin in the national Bitcoin bund and never get the temptation to sell at any moment even if the price rise immediately the purchase are made the steel hands Bitcoin holding method indicates that the Nayib Bukele administration is in for long term basis and not short term condition.

[JayJuanGee]

But I'm still trying to trust El Salvador government, they must be not so dumb to manage BTC investment carelessly. They should have a reason to continue buying although most people think it isn't the right time to buy.

You do not have to trust El Salvador, another bitcoin all-time-high will convince people like you once again.

I get your point Charles-Tim that when BTC prices get back into upward momentum, then a whole hell of a lot of normies are going to end up getting convinced through a kind of osmosis (or would it me a kind of inevitable appreciation regarding how the world happens to be changing) that bitcoin happens to be the soundest of monies/assets that the world has seen up to date... so in that sense there is a kind of likely inevitability that value is going to continue to flow into bitcoin - just like it already has been flowing into bitcoin in the past 10-12 years based on greater and greater recognition that not only is bitcoin the soundest of assets/monies but that it is sufficiently backed by technology and even the ongoing growth (support) of network effects to be able to ongoingly continue to inspire more and more folks (institutions and governments too) to allocate more of their value into bitcoin.

What I am trying to say is that genuine people are likely ongoingly going to recognize the value of bitcoin, yet I question the extent to which TelolettOm is actually trying to understand/appreciate bitcoin rather than spouting out some fear-based(fear-spreading) talking points to denigrate bitcoin.  Sure, some of the seemingly disingenuine persons will be coming around to bitcoin, too.. maybe reluctantly 5-10 years from now, rather than within a sooner timeline.. that is to the extent that they actually might be ready, willing or able to try to understand the nonsense of their own ill-informed bitcoin bashing talking points.

So far, I myself only know their purchase history, I don't know their selling history. If you know it, please share it with me?
Surely it is a mistake if they are still holding all their purchasing BTC till now. And I'm starting to doubt El Salvador's ability in crypto investment. I mean, they must know if are heading to the bearish market, where the price of Bitcoin will freefall. It is suicide if they continue to purchase, then they keep the Bitcoin for a long holding. But I'm still trying to trust the El Salvador government, they must be not so dumb as to manage BTC investment carelessly. They should have a reason to continue buying although most people think it isn't the right time to buy.

One thing we must understand is the fact that El Salvador is not in for Bitcoin as an investment but as a currency and this is why the President legalized it as a currency that will serve as an alternative to traditional currency, that is why El Salvador never mind the price of Bitcoin anytime their feel like adding Bitcoin to the country Bitcoin reserve.
So their more interested in the quantity of Bitcoin which is what the El Salvador Bitcoin law is calculated on and not on its US dollar values. So don't use Bitcoin price to judge El Salvador's performance in terms of development as Bitcoin price is always volatile.

I have doubts about whether outlining El Salvador's motivations to be directed towards currency rather than investment is either helpful or accurate.  DdmrDdmr, Doan9269 and _act_ seem to have been saying something similar above1, above2 and above3 in terms of "why not both?"

Sure, we know and can appreciate currency aspects of bitcoin - especially when we consider various ways that bitcoin can be fairly easily and cheaply transmitted through lightning network vehicles, nonetheless, Bukele seems to have gotten pretty smart about bitcoin pretty quickly and has publicly shown that he has decent understandings of various value propositions of bitcoin that likely goes beyond pigeon-holing bitcoin in a currency versus investment dichotomy.

I don't really disagree with your overall points Odusko, but your framework may well be a bit misleading because we already know that bitcoin can serve in a variety of roles in terms of currency, asset, software, ledger and perhaps other ways of framing the matter - while at the same time, Bukele does not seem to be limiting his own way of thinking or talking about current or future bitcoin contributions to his country or to the world.

You just meant that it is a mistake for El Salvador to hold what its citizens are using to make crypto payment which is bitcoin and also saying that it is a mistake for El Salvador to have bitcoin in reserve for the next bull market. Or you want El Salvador to be a bitcoin trader and leave holding that will certainly be profitable later in long term. You are making a wrong statement there.

I don't blame El Salvador. It is their money, not my money. They are free to decide everything they want.
I only viewed this from the investment side. In my humble opinion, it is not a wise decision if they buy at the wrong time. They can wait for buying at the dip, not hurry to buy in every drop of BTC price. They must know BTC price history and they should know when the best time to buy.
But I don't care whether El Salvador wants to keep it for investment or payment tool, they know what the best for them. I only share my opinion based on my own assumption.

You cannot presume to know which way the BTC price is going to go in the short to medium term, and I doubt that Bukele's approach to bitcoin (in terms of leading El Salvador's BTC purchases) were intended to be buying high, so his own conduct in terms of investing into bitcoin on behalf of El Salvador seemed to have been preparations for BTC prices to go up, and so the fact that they went down does not necessarily mean that he did the wrong thing or that he could have done it better - so there are a bit of a Monday morning quarter-backing deficiencies angle in your own assessment of the situation, TelolettOm - as if you have superior knowledge about how to balance various interests whether financial or even representational matters.

I will concede that the level of some of Bukele's public statements regarding what he was doing and his various intentions in regards to bitcoin likely had some negative consequences, though it is not even easy to know whether the positives might not have outweighed the negatives in that direction, and leaders of countries have discretion regarding how they choose to publicize some aspects of their representational behaviors/actions.

I too will say that, for anyone not to use the recent price decline of bitcoin to make wrong conclusion, bitcoin will rise again.

Yeap, remembers me to a friend with very week hands. Before Corona he bought Bitcon at about $11k. While Corona crash he sold at $4.6k even though I advised him to wait because I was convinced it will rise again. He did not hear and sold. After the crash and the fast rise of Bitcoin price he bought in again, very late at $48k. He told me yesterday that he sold again at $31k I have never sold, not during Corona, nor do I now.

Yeah.. it is so crazy that quite a few people engage in this kind of behavior.. which kind of goes to show how difficult that it can be to really attempt to get ahead of the BTC price and stay ahead of the BTC price.

One of the ways to have decent chances of getting ahead of the BTC price is to have at least a 4-10 year investment time horizon, and of course, DCA (dollar cost average investing) seems to help in the matter too.  There are some  controversies about whether DCA works better or lump sum investing, and surely folks with lump sums to invest have those kinds of options; however, the vast majority of normies do not have much if any lump sums that they can invest, so in that regard, DCA does seem to serve as the more practical approach for the vast majority of folks (whether normies or not... hahahahaha)..

One thing that I will mention about DCA investing is that a decent number of people fail/refuse to have sufficient foresight to appreciate that if they are continuing to invest into something like BTC, then there investment injections are spread out and it almost inevitably causes their timeline to increase way beyond the point in which they started to invest - so really in bitcoin 4-10 year time horizons should also apply to those amounts invested at later dates - and surely one of the ways to attempt to lock in the time horizon is to attempt a certain amount of frontloading of the investment to attempt to invest aggressively in the beginning to the extent feasible - and hopefully without investing so much in the beginning that it ends up causing panic at later dates if the BTC price falls... and so another part of any DCA investing strategy ends up attempting to calculating reasonable amounts that are sufficiently aggressive to allow for the ability to feel meaningful benefits in the event of future BTC price appreciation.. but not so aggressive that there are temptations to be dipping into the BTC fund because short-term expenses and an emergency fund has not been adequately accounted for.  I am not even saying that these balances are easy, but they are things that the vast majority of people (including normies) should be able to learn with a bit of application and practice.

[AakZaki]

I believe the total amount is now really 2.301 BTCs:
~snip~

They were so convinced of BTC that they bought again. Indeed, in evidence they do not show. So maybe someone believes it and doesn't. I think it's enough to make the market assess postif with the purchase of the country. Next they just waited patiently, because I had never read the news of El Salvador selling their bitcoins. The World Bank and IMF oppose it, but El Salvador remains confident. We just have to wait for El Salvador whether it will fall or succeed, if it succeeds I think there will be many countries that follow suit.

[7788bitcoin]

~
Bitcoin falled from $69000 to $30700 and El Salvador bought another amount of bitcoin, isn't that good enough, that is wise enough and a good investment strategy. Or you want El Salvador to sell at $30000? If bitcoin still fall, do not be surprised if El Salvador buy more bitcoin.

You are talking about a country who is struggling economically and has a huge public debt and then to invest money in a highly volatile market which lost 50 to 60% in valuations will benefit the country. If you are talking about a stable economy then the long term vision is a strong point but not for a country like El Salvador who is having a huge debt deficit.