ESports betting -CS:GO, DOTA 2, LOL, Valorant - discussion thread

[rdbase]

In Dota2 scene it looks like their next major is the DreamLeague Season 29 happening on May 13th-24th.

While checking for their tournament schedule there was another professional team calling it quits.

https://insider-gaming.com/heroic-cease-dota-2-operations
They have officially disbanded their roster and leaves the scene only after two years of being an organization.

[passwordnow]

While checking for their tournament schedule there was another professional team calling it quits.

https://insider-gaming.com/heroic-cease-dota-2-operations
They have officially disbanded their roster and leaves the scene only after two years of being an organization.

I saw this news and it's another sad one. Each major that passes by, it seems that there are always the old teams who are leaving the dota 2 scene. It's because of the inflated salaries and expenses of operation expenses by each organization. I guess that there will be a massive layoff as well for the organizations when they can no longer afford to run an org. With what I've read, it's likely that only 10% of the prize money goes to the organization and the rest goes to the players plus the salaries that they're receiving. So, it's really a lot and inflated that makes these orgs leaves the scene.

[mikel_012]

In Dota2 scene it looks like their next major is the DreamLeague Season 29 happening on May 13th-24th.

While checking for their tournament schedule there was another professional team calling it quits.

https://insider-gaming.com/heroic-cease-dota-2-operations
They have officially disbanded their roster and leaves the scene only after two years of being an organization.

There is news that many other esports organizations are considering shutting down their Dota 2 teams in the near future because of financial challenges. They say the salaries of $15k and even over $25k for players do not align with the reality. And this was said by former PARI esports director, Ivan Burachenko.

I see that Heroic made $1.4m in prizes and still could not survive, so how do other teams that have way less prizes in tournaments can not shutdown? Something big needs to change or more and more organizations will sadly be leaving.

[T1HGO]

The new roster of Team Nemesis dota 2 is composed of the following players;
- rubikon155 (new name)
- 4nalog
- jabz
- lelis
- yamsun

I am surprised that yamsun turned to become pos 5 although I've seen him play before support roles but he's actually a good pos 1. They did today with their game against Ilbirs in the EPL 37.

This team has no future. I don't want to be a hater but this team has no talent, and Astini is a fraud.

In Dota2 scene it looks like their next major is the DreamLeague Season 29 happening on May 13th-24th.

While checking for their tournament schedule there was another professional team calling it quits.

https://insider-gaming.com/heroic-cease-dota-2-operations
They have officially disbanded their roster and leaves the scene only after two years of being an organization.

Dota needs a restructure of it's competitive scene. The way things are right now are not sustainable. Take a look at how many orgs have pulled the plug since DPC ended.
Just to name a few notable orgs:
Entity, Team Secret, Gaimin Gladiators, Into the Breach, Alliance, Hellraisers, Aster, LGD, EHOME, Invictus Gaming, Talon, Fnatic, Blacklist, Bleed, SMG, Geek Fam, T1, XERXIA, Shopify Rebellion, Evil Geniuses, Nouns, TSM, B8, Beastcoast/M80, Thunder Awaken, Keyd Stars, Infinity, Gambit, Team Empire, RNG, BOOM esports, TNC Predator, Neon Esports, SG esports, CDEC.

On the inverse, which notable orgs came into Dota after DPC?
Heroic(already gone), Parivision, MOUZ(return), Yandex, Aurora, Falcons, Gamerlegion, 1win, paiN gaming(already gone).

How is it sustainable for an ORG, to have a team play a closed qualifier, play 2 matches, lose, and stay afk for the next 3 months? And if the team qualifies, 90% of the tournaments are in Europe, so teams outside Europe have extra-spendings in flights, hotels etc.

Dota needs more Regional competition and less International competition. This promotes org exposure and team/player growth.
I could do the same exercise i did for orgs, but with teams/players instead. Look at how many good teams and players came out of the DPC era and how many after it.
Just to name a few, the products of the DPC era:
Old Navi JR/current Navi, The OG kids ATF/bzm/Yuragi, ex-Gaiming Gladiators with the exception of Quinn, The whole Team Spirit squad that won TI10, that Ooredoo Thunders team that later became Quest... I could go on.
What good teams/players came out after DPC? Satanic? who else? Tailung?

If Valve doesn't want to get involved anymore, someone else, like ESL needs to change things up. Dota right now is not worthy of having 1M prize pool tournaments, because viewership is at an alltime low. It's painful to see TO like Blast having such good production value struggling to reach 15k viewers. The next step will be lowering prizepools on all these touraments until it's not sustainable to be a Dota professional, putting the  professional scene in jeopardy.

[passwordnow]

The new roster of Team Nemesis dota 2 is composed of the following players;
- rubikon155 (new name)
- 4nalog
- jabz
- lelis
- yamsun

I am surprised that yamsun turned to become pos 5 although I've seen him play before support roles but he's actually a good pos 1. They did today with their game against Ilbirs in the EPL 37.

This team has no future. I don't want to be a hater but this team has no talent, and Astini is a fraud.

That's okay because that's your opinion. I'm not a hater as well but these roster changes could lead to nothing or something. However, I am interested why you've said that astini is a fraud. Is there any issue that you've seen with him and I've probably missed that news.

If Valve doesn't want to get involved anymore, someone else, like ESL needs to change things up. Dota right now is not worthy of having 1M prize pool tournaments, because viewership is at an alltime low. It's painful to see TO like Blast having such good production value struggling to reach 15k viewers. The next step will be lowering prizepools on all these touraments until it's not sustainable to be a Dota professional, putting the  professional scene in jeopardy.

I agree, that's how it is going right now. Although I think that it's making old players come back and play the game again, it's hard to sustain the ones who would always play the game because of these tournaments. I think it's just one single battle pass and everyone would come back and watch again. As for the orgs and the prizes, I agree that there's a need for restructuring it. I guess that salaries are inflated and in a bubble. I agree in everything you've said.

[ralle14]

I see that Heroic made $1.4m in prizes and still could not survive, so how do other teams that have way less prizes in tournaments can not shutdown? Something big needs to change or more and more organizations will sadly be leaving.

The other weaker teams probably take a smaller pay or even nothing at all. I remember someone posted back then that Ame continued competing with the team even without a salary.

That slow bleed has been one of the many issues for quite a while, and it's why most of the top teams have been partnering with gambling sites (1win, BetBoom, Parivision, 1xbet, etc).

[mikel_012]

That slow bleed has been one of the many issues for quite a while, and it's why most of the top teams have been partnering with gambling sites (1win, BetBoom, Parivision, 1xbet, etc).

I noticed that every esports or normal sports are getting filled with gambling sponsorships. Even leagues or other companies like BetBoom that is transmitting the CS2 major officially and they are a casino

And I see less and less normal companies spending money with ads in the scenario. Only on bigger teams and the number is getting smaller every year. I think the explanation is that casinos earn a lot more and they want every player to be gambling or betting on sports, so they can spend more.

[T1HGO]

That's okay because that's your opinion. I'm not a hater as well but these roster changes could lead to nothing or something. However, I am interested why you've said that astini is a fraud. Is there any issue that you've seen with him and I've probably missed that news.

When i say he's a fraud, is in a sense that he is EXTREMELY over rated. And his ego is very high for someone who accomplished so little. If you don't understand portuguese, you probably don't have that idea. But i can get a little more technical. I will use his most recent game, just as an example. Yesterday, Nemesis played against 1win. So just a simple and quick analysis on nemesis draft.

Nemesis draft


1win draft


This match was played on the most recent patch 7.41c.

Pretty solid first bans, as lone druid still deserves to be first ban tier, and clever ban on IO, since it's one of swedenstrong's best heroes.

Alright first pick pangolier, however the pick on 13 is where i have a problem with. Alchemist was already entering garbage tier levels, as teams already figured this "aghs giving" bullshit. The hero in my opinion was becoming niche, only working with other very strong aghs timing cores like Queen of Pain, Largo, Void Spirit etc...
However, keep in mind this Alchemist pick is already on the new patch, where this Alchemist aghs strat was literally nerfed in half.


Literally nerfed in half. Weaker in lane, and slower farming speed due to higher cooldown on acid spray. But okay, he believes in the hero still, that's okay.
1win responds with timbersaw on 15, so they already know 1win offlane will be timbersaw + hoodwink. What do they pick in response on 16? Silencer. This lane is over from the start. One bushwack from hoodwink into whirling death and Alch is half hp. Twice and he's dead. Unplayable lane. And picking a Silencer to counter a timbersaw, who is a natural Lotus orb buyer is questionable at best.

They follow it up with Grimstroke on the 17, which has no synergy with the current heroes. Normally you would want a blink stun hero with Grim, or a strong single target spell like Doom to fully utilize this hero. There's none of that here.

1win follows it up with Monkey king on the 18, and starts banning offlaners as they are convinced they will not be sending pangolier to a Monkey king lane as it will be a meat grinder for the pango.

1win picks Queen of pain on the 23, and Nemesis has the last pick. And holy shit if it isn't the worst fucking pick of the draft. Viper. Notice how proven QOP counters are available, like Huskar, Ember spirit or Void spirit. They end up with Viper.

So who is the strong timing core to take advantage of Alchemist aghs giving here? Viper? Pangolier? lol. So they pick Alch to end up with one gifted aghs on Pangolier. So, what was the point of picking Alchemist?

At first i though, okay, they will send Viper to the offlane, just to try to bully Monkey king, and put Pango mid. I was wrong. They decided to send pango offlane to be stomped by MK, and put Viper mid which is a mediocre hero against QOP. So with just this move their side lanes are over. Obviously, they were crushed.

This was the draft that ended up eliminating them from the tournament. So, yeah, Astini is over rated as hell and i can name you 10 better coaches right from the top of my head.

He did good jobs in some of his previous teams, like Nouns and some periods of Parivision. Until he started overcooking the drafts and getting lost in the sauce. Terrorblade pos4 with armlet shadow blade, Tinker pos1 on Satanic on important matches... I could go on.

I agree, that's how it is going right now. Although I think that it's making old players come back and play the game again, it's hard to sustain the ones who would always play the game because of these tournaments. I think it's just one single battle pass and everyone would come back and watch again. As for the orgs and the prizes, I agree that there's a need for restructuring it. I guess that salaries are inflated and in a bubble. I agree in everything you've said.

Funny that less than 24 hours of making that post, this comes out


I fear for the future of Dota. Just to add something to what i said yesterday. Puppey said on an interview with Khezu that "DPC was the worst thing that ever happened to dota". And his reasoning was something like:
"Imagine being in bootcamp for 2 months, away from home with 1 match per week, and at the end you don't even qualify for the major".
And that's fair. It's a fair reason. However, is the current system in place better? For him, it probably isn't, but what about teams and players that want to grow? Are they gonna grow in closed qualifiers getting smashed by the top teams, playing 2 or 3 matches every 3 months? Or are they gonna grow at EPL's filled with trash teams and matchfix?
Sure, DPC could be tweaked and improved, but it was when Dota professional scene was at their best.
When TO's like blast pull the plug, they won't even have these closed qualifiers to play at. Next year will be about Dota's survival.
If the old dogs don't want to put in the hours and the effort to be professionals, good riddance. Dota is and should be above any player. I'm sure there is new blood and talent willing to put in the work.

[passwordnow]

Funny that less than 24 hours of making that post, this comes out


I fear for the future of Dota. Just to add something to what i said yesterday. Puppey said on an interview with Khezu that "DPC was the worst thing that ever happened to dota". And his reasoning was something like:
"Imagine being in bootcamp for 2 months, away from home with 1 match per week, and at the end you don't even qualify for the major".
And that's fair. It's a fair reason. However, is the current system in place better? For him, it probably isn't, but what about teams and players that want to grow? Are they gonna grow in closed qualifiers getting smashed by the top teams, playing 2 or 3 matches every 3 months? Or are they gonna grow at EPL's filled with trash teams and matchfix?
Sure, DPC could be tweaked and improved, but it was when Dota professional scene was at their best.
When TO's like blast pull the plug, they won't even have these closed qualifiers to play at. Next year will be about Dota's survival.
If the old dogs don't want to put in the hours and the effort to be professionals, good riddance. Dota is and should be above any player. I'm sure there is new blood and talent willing to put in the work.

I've seen this and it also made me sad. This is a serious matter that Valve needs to put a stoppage before things get worse. But I think Gaben will change things after this TI and they've got some actions to prevent what could happen to other teams just as how it ended up with the Gaimin Gladiators organization. So, they are aware of things but they aren't so vocal with it and we only hear quite some updates from the pro players in the scene and the people who's behind these organizations.

[rohang]

PGL astana is starting in just about 1.5 hrs and it has a prize pool of 1.6 million-



First round matches seem to be heavy favorites in most of them, we will probably see even matches from round 2 only

[T1HGO]

PGL astana is starting in just about 1.5 hrs and it has a prize pool of 1.6 million-



First round matches seem to be heavy favorites in most of them, we will probably see even matches from round 2 only

Just to be sure but



Here i see prizepool of 800k. Is this incorrect or am i missing something?

[ralle14]

Here i see prizepool of 800k. Is this incorrect or am i missing something?

The CS2 Liquipedia probably forgot to include the club prize pool. They also did it in their previous event, PGL Bucharest, where both the players and teams received the same amount.

First round matches seem to be heavy favorites in most of them, we will probably see even matches from round 2 only

Only Aurora and Parivision came short in the first round, while the others got the job done to advance to the 1-0 bracket. Mouz isn't looking too bad with jL and xelex, i'm looking forward to their next matchup against G2.

FURIA might also be back to their top form, we'll see if it continues once they face a legit team in the later rounds.

[T1HGO]

Here i see prizepool of 800k. Is this incorrect or am i missing something?

The CS2 Liquipedia probably forgot to include the club prize pool. They also did it in their previous event, PGL Bucharest, where both the players and teams received the same amount.

Oh thank you. Was not aware of that. This is exactly what Dota needed to keep orgs around. I hope this system is implemented in Dota after TI.

[execijutiere]

Aurora made no mistakes against their weaker opponent and managed to beat them 2-0 by winning both maps. I must say that XANTARES underperformed in this match. Overall, as a team, they had a match where Wicadia’s performance was the deciding factor. Maj3r was good, but I think XANTARES still hasn’t recovered. He needs to get his act together now, or take a break for a while and prove himself in future tournaments. Or perhaps he should just quit the game.

[ralle14]

Aurora made no mistakes against their weaker opponent and managed to beat them 2-0 by winning both maps. I must say that XANTARES underperformed in this match. Overall, as a team, they had a match where Wicadia’s performance was the deciding factor. Maj3r was good, but I think XANTARES still hasn’t recovered. He needs to get his act together now, or take a break for a while and prove himself in future tournaments. Or perhaps he should just quit the game.

That match was expected to be free for Aurora, tomorrow's 1-1 matchup is where they need to lock in because they might face a top team like MongolZ or Falcons.

Also, I can't believe 9z pulled this upset out of nowhere, and the decider map wasn't even close. The way Falcons played out that series made me think of FaZe as the vibes were always 4v5 for most of the rounds. The hatewatchers must be eating well after this one. 

[rdbase]

Aurora made no mistakes against their weaker opponent and managed to beat them 2-0 by winning both maps. I must say that XANTARES underperformed in this match. Overall, as a team, they had a match where Wicadia’s performance was the deciding factor. Maj3r was good, but I think XANTARES still hasn’t recovered. He needs to get his act together now, or take a break for a while and prove himself in future tournaments. Or perhaps he should just quit the game.

That match was expected to be free for Aurora, tomorrow's 1-1 matchup is where they need to lock in because they might face a top team like MongolZ or Falcons.

Also, I can't believe 9z pulled this upset out of nowhere, and the decider map wasn't even close. The way Falcons played out that series made me think of FaZe as the vibes were always 4v5 for most of the rounds. The hatewatchers must be eating well after this one. 

Also with their new player Karrigan on the Team Falcons roster was more of a shock to everyone who expect them to blank a lower tiered squad like 9z.
I was watching some of the match earlier and didn't recognize any players on their team. So it was more sore of a loss just like if they were rubbing salt in a fresh wound as Falcons were with a heavy name like his joining the team.

So after Furia beating Heroic and Spirit having a solid win against The Mongolz we have the run up to the playoffs setup for tomorrow between those two teams:
https://www.hltv.org/news/44549/furia-to-meet-spirit-for-playoff-spot-on-pgl-astana-day-three

[passwordnow]

The CS2 Liquipedia probably forgot to include the club prize pool. They also did it in their previous event, PGL Bucharest, where both the players and teams received the same amount.

Oh thank you. Was not aware of that. This is exactly what Dota needed to keep orgs around. I hope this system is implemented in Dota after TI.

For the major tournaments, there's also the org prizes but they're not that much but still a good motivation that aside from the portion from the total prize earning of the team, a certain prize goes to the orgs depending on their ending place.  Like this upcoming Dreamleague.



But I agree that it's going to keep the orgs alive if they end up with the same prize amount for all teams, ending last and first.

[T1HGO]

The CS2 Liquipedia probably forgot to include the club prize pool. They also did it in their previous event, PGL Bucharest, where both the players and teams received the same amount.

Oh thank you. Was not aware of that. This is exactly what Dota needed to keep orgs around. I hope this system is implemented in Dota after TI.

For the major tournaments, there's also the org prizes but they're not that much but still a good motivation that aside from the portion from the total prize earning of the team, a certain prize goes to the orgs depending on their ending place.  Like this upcoming Dreamleague.



But I agree that it's going to keep the orgs alive if they end up with the same prize amount for all teams, ending last and first.

Oh wow. I haven't even noticed that lol. But let's be honest. 40k for the first place is almost irrelevant. Imagine a Chinese, SEA or South American team wins the tournament(very unlikely). Does 40k even cover the costs of a 1month bootcamp in europe? Because Dreamleagues are the longest tournaments of the year in Dota.

I am very curious to see Team Spirit roster announced for Dreamleague. Strong rumours going around saying Panto was kicked. aik or rein to be the replacement. If it is aik, it will be the old Yellow submarine roster support duo. aik and rue.

[ralle14]

The grand final for the Essence tournament is now live, and will be backing Parivision to sweep since the odds are too juiced for the moneyline and -1.5 map handicap. If only PlayTime hadn't underperformed earlier in the lower bracket final, then the odds might've been closer.

Oh wow. I haven't even noticed that lol. But let's be honest. 40k for the first place is almost irrelevant. Imagine a Chinese, SEA or South American team wins the tournament(very unlikely). Does 40k even cover the costs of a 1month bootcamp in europe? Because Dreamleagues are the longest tournaments of the year in Dota.

I've got no clue how much the bootcamps cost for teams, but if the teams can qualify through all their events, then it's probably enough, because ESL hosts DreamLeague tournaments a bunch of times, plus an ESL One tournament before they wrap the whole thing with the Esports World Cup.

[T1HGO]

I've got no clue how much the bootcamps cost for teams, but if the teams can qualify through all their events, then it's probably enough, because ESL hosts DreamLeague tournaments a bunch of times, plus an ESL One tournament before they wrap the whole thing with the Esports World Cup.

Well, i would imagine it costs more for non-European teams, since they have to travel and they have to actually bootcamp. And with flights, hotels, gaming-houses rents, food etc etc, it adds up.

European teams can just play from home. It's an online tournament anyway. Or in Liquid's case, they have their own gaming facility. 0 costs for the orgs.

Aurora made no mistakes against their weaker opponent and managed to beat them 2-0 by winning both maps. I must say that XANTARES underperformed in this match. Overall, as a team, they had a match where Wicadia’s performance was the deciding factor. Maj3r was good, but I think XANTARES still hasn’t recovered. He needs to get his act together now, or take a break for a while and prove himself in future tournaments. Or perhaps he should just quit the game.

Completely unrelated to the topic. Just a little story. Along time ago, like around 10 years ago, i used to play alot of Dota with Maj3r. We used to play alot of captains mode together. He would always play mid and i play carry. He literally had one hero pool. He could only play Lina. If enemy team banned Lina he would struggle alot, but had a solid Lina. Great guy, very funny, never gave up. Can only say good things about him. He completely quit dota to focus on CS. Glad to see his career is still going.