Enjoy communism (III) rats eating dead people and people eating rats in NK

[Sanugarid]

Only their leaders and the rich ones are enjoying this kind of government. The hunger in NK is caused by poor government who's crazy in building weapons rather than producing food added by economic sanctions given by international community. Their leaders are having their best lives while their constituents where hungry and having no opportunities to have a good life. I feel sad for these people.

Of course that's how it is, communism is just an illusion so the real tyrants can trick the population into believing that they're going to deliver them the paradise that they're asking for when it's really hell that they give to this people, look at Cuba, they're not prospering, they don't even have the Internet because Castro wanted communism. Remember when China destroyed their ancient artifacts as a sign of movement towards a better country, now they're chasing it and they only have fakes in mainland, all the originals are in Taiwan. Communism works in theory and in the mouth of a sweet talker and good public speaker but it won't ever work in practice because only the poor is going to suffer.

[Anonylz]

Pardon my ignorance but I really have to ask, is this happening in this 21st century or it is the lifestyle of before in NK? I can seem to wrap my head around people not having access to the basic human stuff! How in the world I'd the people over there able to survive on a daily basis! I really can't imagine a life much harder than what this people are going through if this is what is happening, anyone able to flee from such life should be very thankful.

[blckhawk]

Pardon my ignorance but I really have to ask, is this happening in this 21st century or it is the lifestyle of before in NK? I can seem to wrap my head around people not having access to the basic human stuff! How in the world I'd the people over there able to survive on a daily basis! I really can't imagine a life much harder than what this people are going through if this is what is happening, anyone able to flee from such life should be very thankful.

Yes it's still happening, we just don't see it and it's not documented since people are known to get jailed if they bring or smuggle footages on their cameras, the soldiers of the regimes checks everyone because they don't want anything getting out but they're sometimes unsuccessful so we see a glimpse of the atrocities in this rogue country. They eat anything and the government still provides but not enough.

Of course that's how it is, communism is just an illusion so the real tyrants can trick the population into believing that they're going to deliver them the paradise that they're asking for when it's really hell that they give to this people, look at Cuba, they're not prospering, they don't even have the Internet because Castro wanted communism. Remember when China destroyed their ancient artifacts as a sign of movement towards a better country, now they're chasing it and they only have fakes in mainland, all the originals are in Taiwan. Communism works in theory and in the mouth of a sweet talker and good public speaker but it won't ever work in practice because only the poor is going to suffer.

Totally agree with this one, communism is like utopia in a sense that they don't exist in real life, they're only ideas meant to drive people to do things to drive themselves towards it trying to achieve it when in reality it's not even going to happen no matter how hard they try, man will always be corrupted when they handle power.

[Gyfts]

People do know what's going on in Venezuela for the most part, everyone just ignores it because we're not allowed to talk about how socialist countries fail hopelessly with their economic situation, and how hyperinflation spirals out of control when you put all your eggs in one basket. With Venezuela, the price of oil dropped and their economy crashed because there wasn't enough economic activity to pick up where the oil left off, thanks to the government.

[beerlover]

Pardon my ignorance but I really have to ask, is this happening in this 21st century or it is the lifestyle of before in NK? I can seem to wrap my head around people not having access to the basic human stuff! How in the world I'd the people over there able to survive on a daily basis! I really can't imagine a life much harder than what this people are going through if this is what is happening, anyone able to flee from such life should be very thankful.

Yes it's still happening, we just don't see it and it's not documented since people are known to get jailed if they bring or smuggle footages on their cameras, the soldiers of the regimes checks everyone because they don't want anything getting out but they're sometimes unsuccessful so we see a glimpse of the atrocities in this rogue country. They eat anything and the government still provides but not enough.

I have to say I was quite ignorant about North Korea before this topic, I have to admit to that. I thought that NK was a big dictatorship that was fascist in every possible way, sort of like Hitler and Nazi Germany, that is what I believed what was going on there. Turns out, they claim that they are a socialist nation! What an interesting view.

Now, I wonder if people here believe that this was communism failing? I mean is there any human on this topic that believes the fact that there is a fat guy at the top doing everything he wants, eating, dancing, having sex, limitless power, with some less powerful but still quite powerful generals, with death squads, with everything else that is wrong with that nation and people starving under the regime, is... communism? I mean do you know what communism is? Commune, community, communism? I still dislike communism, that is for sure (still a leftist though) but I am pretty sure any person who has ever known what a real communism is would probably know that this is a fascist dictatorship, you are aware of that right?

[Sithara007]

People do know what's going on in Venezuela for the most part, everyone just ignores it because we're not allowed to talk about how socialist countries fail hopelessly with their economic situation, and how hyperinflation spirals out of control when you put all your eggs in one basket. With Venezuela, the price of oil dropped and their economy crashed because there wasn't enough economic activity to pick up where the oil left off, thanks to the government.

The mainstream media is mostly left-wing (with a few exceptions such as Fox news) and want us to believe that Socialism will result in rivers of milk and honey. But in reality, it results in the slavery of 99% of the population by the 1% elite (similar to the case in North Korea and Cuba). It is very interesting that most of those who praise socialism nowadays are those who have no experience of living in a socialist country. Hopefully these guys will get an experience to enjoy the wonders of socialist rule, when Kamala Harris is elected as the POTUS in 2024.

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

Of course that's how it is, communism is just an illusion so the real tyrants can trick the population into believing that they're going to deliver them the paradise that they're asking for when it's really hell that they give to this people, look at Cuba, they're not prospering, they don't even have the Internet because Castro wanted communism. Remember when China destroyed their ancient artifacts as a sign of movement towards a better country, now they're chasing it and they only have fakes in mainland, all the originals are in Taiwan. Communism works in theory and in the mouth of a sweet talker and good public speaker but it won't ever work in practice because only the poor is going to suffer.

Totally agree with this one, there's no such thing as equal in communism, it's just a tyrant replacing another tyrant with the current tyrant saying that they're the savior of the people even though it's not the case. It's just so sad that this is also a test of loyalty because you won't suffer from the wrath of communism if you are utterly loyal towards the tyrants in power.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Totally agree with this one, there's no such thing as equal in communism, it's just a tyrant replacing another tyrant with the current tyrant saying that they're the savior of the people even though it's not the case. It's just so sad that this is also a test of loyalty because you won't suffer from the wrath of communism if you are utterly loyal towards the tyrants in power.

Communism has killed more people than any ideology other than organized religion in the recorded history. Mao Zedong caused 80 million deaths, while Josef Stalin is close behind with 60 million to his name. Then there are a few others like Pol Pot and Kim Jong Il, with a few millions to their name. If people still support this horrible ideology even after all this, then I have to say that they are delusional. Communism is an ideology that needs to be wiped out from the surface of earth, just like other horrible ideologies such as Nazism and Wahhabism.

[tygeade]

I have to say I was quite ignorant about North Korea before this topic, I have to admit to that. I thought that NK was a big dictatorship that was fascist in every possible way, sort of like Hitler and Nazi Germany, that is what I believed what was going on there. Turns out, they claim that they are a socialist nation! What an interesting view.

Now, I wonder if people here believe that this was communism failing? I mean is there any human on this topic that believes the fact that there is a fat guy at the top doing everything he wants, eating, dancing, having sex, limitless power, with some less powerful but still quite powerful generals, with death squads, with everything else that is wrong with that nation and people starving under the regime, is... communism? I mean do you know what communism is? Commune, community, communism? I still dislike communism, that is for sure (still a leftist though) but I am pretty sure any person who has ever known what a real communism is would probably know that this is a fascist dictatorship, you are aware of that right?

It is more about how in many parts of the world the extremes almost always get away with these type of things. You can call it communism, you can call it whatever you want, hell Nazis were "national socialist" as well, the socialist is in the name, if you want to call them leftists then you practically can, sure it may not look like it right now but the idea of "lets murder everyone who is not German and then make sure that all Germans are living great thanks to that" was communist back then, they never really put any difference between Germans, they were communist regarding their own citizens.

It is just a name, fascist, capitalist, democratic, communist, leftist, rightist, secular, religious all of these do not mean a thing, NONE, because it depends on the person who rules a nation. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden are all the same nations presidents, but did the nation looked exactly the same under their tenures? Each made same nation look different. Hence you can be sure that it is not about the name or the party, it is about the person that is ruling, there are bad rulers and there are good politicians, irregardless of the ideology they have.

[Sanugarid]

snip

Totally agree with this one, there's no such thing as equal in communism, it's just a tyrant replacing another tyrant with the current tyrant saying that they're the savior of the people even though it's not the case. It's just so sad that this is also a test of loyalty because you won't suffer from the wrath of communism if you are utterly loyal towards the tyrants in power.

That's myy point, it's because men will always be evil and men won't ever want another to be better or equal to them, humanity is built on competition, it helped us survived but it's also our deadlock, we won't advance real fast with our current mentality.

[bryant.coleman]

That's myy point, it's because men will always be evil and men won't ever want another to be better or equal to them, humanity is built on competition, it helped us survived but it's also our deadlock, we won't advance real fast with our current mentality.

There is another way of looking in to it. There are almost 8 billion humans in this planet and even then all of them are unique in terms of skills, intelligence and technological knowhow. According to nature's rule, those with better skills should survive and the rest should perish. Humans have changed this equation and allowed everyone to survive. But history has taught us that whenever you disrupt nature's laws, the consequences would be severe. And that is the reason why socialist nations are some of the poorest in the world.

[blckhawk]

~

I have to say I was quite ignorant about North Korea before this topic, I have to admit to that. I thought that NK was a big dictatorship that was fascist in every possible way, sort of like Hitler and Nazi Germany, that is what I believed what was going on there. Turns out, they claim that they are a socialist nation! What an interesting view.

Now, I wonder if people here believe that this was communism failing? I mean is there any human on this topic that believes the fact that there is a fat guy at the top doing everything he wants, eating, dancing, having sex, limitless power, with some less powerful but still quite powerful generals, with death squads, with everything else that is wrong with that nation and people starving under the regime, is... communism? I mean do you know what communism is? Commune, community, communism? I still dislike communism, that is for sure (still a leftist though) but I am pretty sure any person who has ever known what a real communism is would probably know that this is a fascist dictatorship, you are aware of that right?

It's alright as long as you learn something new, it's all good, that's what life is, you start an ignorant and with the help of the information we will be able to change our minds or not but at least now we are aware. Fascism is what's happening to most countries now although they like to call it democracy when in fact the voters don't really have a say on where the country goes next. What NK is suffering is communism, fascism is when the government becomes a corporation.

[Silberman]

I sympathize with the citizens of North Korea and wish them well, but what can or should the world do about their woes?  They need to rise up and fight, IMO, if they're tired of being under the thumb of a dictatorship.

I second that, and what I believe is there is no dictatorial regime that began in a day, it is a gradual process when power hungry and brutal people take power, they slowly make things dictatorial, thus the people of North Korea should not have allowed things to get this bad, if it actually is as bad as the person in that interview claims; thus the people of North Korea should have opposed this sort of totalitarianism from the beginning, it seems it has gotten out of hand at the moment, which makes it hard to repress.

Having said that, what the outside world can do is just to to create awareness on what is happening, but I think if there is to actually be any change, then there must be a revolution, and it must stem from within and nowhere else.

One of the big problems is that for the most part communist regimes realize very fast they need complete control of the information for them to remain in power, it is not rare that the people living in communist countries and that have been under it for decades do not really have an idea of how people live in the rest of the world and instead of being mad about their poor living conditions they think the rest of the world is worse and they are lucky to live under the communist regime, this is difficult to do in this day and age but this is happening at North Korea right now.

[paxmao]

...
This is a single interview from a person who lived there and someone could argue that it is biased, but searching the net we can see other similar testimonials, for example:

Train platforms full of dead bodies, cleaning filthy toilets with bare hands and eating rats to survive: North Korean defector reveals harsh reality of life inside brutal labour camps

...

Unfortunately, any information you may possibly get from NK is certain to be biased and difficult to validate or disprove. NK is opaque like few countries out there, but in terms of their economy it is obvious that it is impossible that people in the country are doing well in general, let alone people who have been marked by the regime as enemies.

Regarding the communism in general, people in countries with more or less free markets and more or less "capitalist" would be greatly surprised to know that those communist regimes do have supporters. When the USSR imploded, most people lived without any luxury and they certainly did not have many of the freedoms that democracies had, but they mostly had a roof over their head, a job and food - zero luxury of course other than culture perhaps.

"Capitalist" countries are great at marketing - as it could not be otherwise - and do well presenting examples of people who are successful under the regime, but there is certainly plenty of dirt under the carpet and millions left behind. You will rarely see interviews and documentaries about children living in cars and dying for lack of medical care, people living in hoods in which their only realistic survival option is to join a gang, even modern slaves working in inhuman conditions, etc. Yet that does exist in capitalist countries.

Unfortunately, the middle way and the moderate opinions are not in fashion and everything has to be either black or white. If you support moderation and complex answers you are usually hated by everyone and each group will accuse you of having a political agenda behind your views. Yet here is my view, a purely Capitalist regime is sustainable but leaves many behind. A purely communist regime ignores some of the basic inclinations of people and cannot work. Some countries are not even ready to discuss anything but a tribal government due to the lack of education.

Unfortunately, people abide mostly by simple answers, simple slogans, tweets and, in general, that which makes them feel better about themselves.

[hatshepsut93]

Unfortunately, there's no chance for North Korea's people to topple their government, because revolutions happen when people are strong and government is weak, but in North Korea it's the vice versa. And now that the government has nukes, their regime could survive for a very long time, as no outside country would use military force against them. The only hope is change from within, maybe in some distant future there will be a less oppressive leader and the people will have a chance to become stronger.

[Sithara007]

Unfortunately, there's no chance for North Korea's people to topple their government, because revolutions happen when people are strong and government is weak, but in North Korea it's the vice versa. And now that the government has nukes, their regime could survive for a very long time, as no outside country would use military force against them. The only hope is change from within, maybe in some distant future there will be a less oppressive leader and the people will have a chance to become stronger.

As long as the regime is able to keep the population terrified, they will be able to enslave them. But at one point, the threshold of tolerance will snap and there will be a mass uprising. And this has happened in other countries as well (Lithuania, Poland.etc). And in all probability, Kim Jong Un will face the fate of other dictators, such as Saddam Hussain, Muammar Gaddafi and Nicolae Ceaușescu. Even in Cuba and Venezuela, now the population is rioting against the communist regimes. You can't rule with muscle-power forever.

[amishmanish]

Thanks OP for these threads. While the description of situations in NK may seem hard to believe for some of the pragmatists, I am quite sure that a set of leaders who are capable of planning murder of brothers and blowing people with artillery, can very well create these conditions.

Quite a few apologists of communism in this thread too. Maybe it is just a reflection of the CCP puppets going around on the forum these days and just an overall reflection of the Chinese methods of  trying to control narratives through seemingly honest opinions. Yet, anyone with half a brain will realize that Communism can NEVER work. Like NEVER.

By its very definition, communism means that the "means of production and property" is owned collectively, in this case, by the state. And who is the state? There is no "collective entity" called the state. It is a bunch of individuals who rise to the top in the name of equality. Whether its Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Sun; they all are individuals or groups of people who become "The state".

This is what leads to the ultimate failure as there are no checks and balances on power that exist in capitalist democracies; free markets, free press, free judiciary. Sure those are not perfect. Yet, that just means they are involved in a constant struggle of distributing resources between unequal participants. Nothing of that sort is possible in Communism.

Communism is fine in theory but impossible to practice at scale.

[Poker Player]

-snip

Yes, that's why I said in a previous post, that in reality, many times what we call capitalism is actually social democracy, a mixture of free enterprise and individual initiative with regulations and redistribution. I find it very funny to hear people complaining about capitalism in countries where the public sector accounts for more than 50% of GDP, they have high taxes, public health care (which I am in favor of), etc.

Quite capitalist is a country like Singapore, but in general it is not the European countries.

[bryant.coleman]

Yes, that's why I said in a previous post, that in reality, many times what we call capitalism is actually social democracy, a mixture of free enterprise and individual initiative with regulations and redistribution. I find it very funny to hear people complaining about capitalism in countries where the public sector accounts for more than 50% of GDP, they have high taxes, public health care (which I am in favor of), etc.

Quite capitalist is a country like Singapore, but in general it is not the European countries.

As such, there are no pure capitalist countries in the world (maybe with the exception of a few island nations where there is no income tax). Even in countries like the United States, the marginal tax rates can be as high as 60%. The government is taking away money from successful people and then distributing a part of it among the unproductive population. Now this is what socialism does. The difference here is that the government is not taking away 100% as in the case with socialist countries, but only 20% to 60% depending on your income tax slab.

[wahyu wida]

-snip

Yes, that's why I said in a previous post, that in reality, many times what we call capitalism is actually social democracy, a mixture of free enterprise and individual initiative with regulations and redistribution. I find it very funny to hear people complaining about capitalism in countries where the public sector accounts for more than 50% of GDP, they have high taxes, public health care (which I am in favor of), etc.

Quite capitalist is a country like Singapore, but in general it is not the European countries.

basically both are like aiming for social, where they help each other. in a capitalist country, someone is allowed to work so that they have a lot of income until finally the state collects taxes to equalize development which will later be for the equality of society. and for a socialist country, this is purely in the hands of the government, so that citizens' lives are equal