Self Moderated Thread for New Books

[brassnuts]

I finally received my first ever email from 4444sport since I registered. Unfortunately it's telling me that they're closing my account, and they'll be keeping the funds I deposited for the 'damages' that I've caused. I'm not sure what I damaged, but it must of hurt, considering I deposited $800. No explanation is given. A simple message that I cheated and they're taking the lot. A complete scam.

Good day,

Our security team came to the conclusion that you have cheated on our site.
To cover the costs and damage from this, the funds will be confiscated and the account is permanently closed.


Best regards,
Customer Support Team
https://4444sport.com/

[1715240305]

1715240305

[1715240305]

1715240305

[1715240305]

1715240305

[brassnuts]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

The user did not cheat. The user bet only on big markets. The user was value betting. It is not the fault of the user, it is the fault of the absolute incompetency of your sports betting site.

[acroman08]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.

I rarely suggest this since it would take some of their time and I am not sure if they would agree, but if you are afraid of showing some confidential/technical details to the public, you can try and ask some reputable members here in the forum to review the evidence you have that pins brassnuts actually cheated your website.

[Erdogan]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

The user did not cheat. The user bet only on big markets. The user was value betting. It is not the fault of the user, it is the fault of the absolute incompetency of your sports betting site.

Can you tell if you were betting on live betting? If so, what were the sports?
Did you bet on point advantages in live table tennis in the last seconds of the match?

[brassnuts]

No table tennis bets at all. Every bet was a big soccer league in a high liquidity market. I am happy to post my bets.

Incidentally their Costa Rican license is completely fake.

[NotATether]

If the bookmaker has doubts about any bets, he has the right to check them. A week of time is not yet a very long period of waiting for an answer. I understand your impatience, but spamming his thread is not the best behavior.

Enlighten me about the kind of "doubts" you are talking about because sportsbook odds are given to them by 3rd party services.

You can't just walk up and inspect anyone's bet because usually there is nothing to inspect in the first place (with the exceptions of: checking for money laundering, arbitrage betting, and other kinds of fraud or grey area stuff).

~

The user did not cheat. The user bet only on big markets. The user was value betting. It is not the fault of the user, it is the fault of the absolute incompetency of your sports betting site.

Lol. If they had a real problem with cheating, a sane casino would've patched that security hole so that more of their precious time in maintenance doesn't get wasted on problems they already found. Not waste time banning accounts like these guys are doing now.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

If the bookmaker has doubts about any bets, he has the right to check them. A week of time is not yet a very long period of waiting for an answer. I understand your impatience, but spamming his thread is not the best behavior.

Enlighten me about the kind of "doubts" you are talking about because sportsbook odds are given to them by 3rd party services.

You can't just walk up and inspect anyone's bet because usually there is nothing to inspect in the first place (with the exceptions of: checking for money laundering, arbitrage betting, and other kinds of fraud or grey area stuff).

I didn't mean any particular situation. Simply put, the bookmaker has the right to check whether there has been any cheating and that's it. I think if they has suspicions they can just check it out.
What you have mentioned for sure can be basis for a closer look at the bets. In 1xbit, for example, scammers take advantage of the delay in updating the results on live betting, but probably there are more ways.

[brassnuts]

There is nothing to inspect or verify. It's all just a load of rubbish from a scam site.

The bets I placed were about 65% pre match 1x2 or O/U markets, and about 35% live 1x2 or O/U. All on soccer markets in the worlds biggest leagues.

I am 100% sure that while 4444 are still an active company that they will happily take depositors money but as soon as someone wins some money, which can happen in this industry believe it or not, they will just call shenanigans and proceed to steal whatever they can.

The only other user who has posted about any sort of experience on this site is 'younger41' and the exact same situation happened to him. So far this site has a 100% scam record in regards to activity from users on this forum.

[FatFork]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.

That's so convenient for you, isn't it? Unfortunately we have no way of verifying your claims other than by your word. The thing is, you are a brand new casino here with no reputation, so your word doesn't carry much weight. In addition, you tend to censor excessively in your self-moderated thread and have a negative attitude towards the community, which is why I am inclined to doubt your claims.

I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.

Unless you claim that making a fair profit at your casino is impossible, this is not a valid argument.

[Bitinity]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.

I rarely suggest this since it would take some of their time and I am not sure if they would agree, but if you are afraid of showing some confidential/technical details to the public, you can try and ask some reputable members here in the forum to review the evidence you have that pins brassnuts actually cheated your website.

It is true and it would be fair for both party. Accusing someone should be proved by evidence.  In all other cases, players need to provide evidence(s) when they face an issue with a specific platform. It wont be fair if casino can accuse player as cheater by words only without single proof. I'm wondering since the player made hundreds bets, are all those bets considered as cheating? How about other players who bet on the same markets as him, are all players affected?

[Adzivu]

By the way, would you mind to share how much is your pending withdrawal? Is it something really big or not that big? I cant understand why they take so long time to verify all your bets. I know you made hundreds bets (as what they claim), but I do not think all those bets need to be verified. It is reasonable to verify some but it seems they are verifying all (in case they are doing it).

I deposited $800 and managed to turn it into around $5000. I ran hot on my big bets. I am not surprised they want to stop me withdrawing as it's a big hit to a new book, and from what some one mentioned to me, this book probably does not even have that much money to send to me. So in a way I had some sympathy at the time, but I have none now as they communicated with me on one occasion and have completely ceased since.

There was nothing fishy about my bets fwiw. I can post all of them on here.

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

How convenient .
User cheated while betting on the biggest football leagues?
What a lame excuse.

[mak013]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam. If you want to spent your time - read this thread, trying to find negative posts warning about scam. I`m sure - you willn`t find such posts, or 1-2 from newbie accounts.
And under the thread name you can see how many posts were deleted, in 4444sport.com thread - it looks so: (39 posts by 15 users with 1 merit deleted.)
Don`t even try to find the truth in such threads, it is impossible.

[panjul07]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam.

You cant generalize it, not all self moderated are bad or scam.
It depends on how the thread opener use it, sometime there are some trolling posts, FUD, or baseless accusation that need to be deleted so the self-moderated feature is good for this purpose.
In this case 4444sports do it very bad, they are abusing the feature of self moderated thread to delete posts as they wish.

[Haunebu]

What you have mentioned for sure can be basis for a closer look at the bets. In 1xbit, for example, scammers take advantage of the delay in updating the results on live betting, but probably there are more ways.

Bad example. You do realise that 1xbit itself is a scam site, don't you? I do agree that some scammers tried to scam 1xbit over time, but this is basically a case of robbers trying to steal from other robbers.

Don`t even try to find the truth in such threads, it is impossible.

Agreed. 4444sports didn't bother paying out the winners in their recent contests in the games and rounds section too which makes them seem even more shady currently.

[Ryker1]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam.

You cant generalize it, not all self moderated are bad or scam.
It depends on how the thread opener use it, sometime there are some trolling posts, FUD, or baseless accusation that need to be deleted so the self-moderated feature is good for this purpose.
In this case 4444sports do it very bad, they are abusing the feature of self moderated thread to delete posts as they wish.

Well, I disagree with your opinion --it should have transparency and not delete the post that they don't want as they wish.
It is normal in a gambling business because that is a part of a competition, FUD or fake news are simply very common and all you have to do is depend on yourself or ignore them. As long as you are doing it right, users may be on your side and not on the FUDs, scammers, and fraudsters. Besides, their accuse will not be proven if they don't have solid proof, and that way you can depend on yourself, and creating a self-moderated thread is not a good idea which looks bad in your place.

[Haunebu]

Besides, their accuse will not be proven if they don't have solid proof, and that way you can depend on yourself, and creating a self-moderated thread is not a good idea which looks bad in your place.

I partially agree with you. Self-moderated threads do infact make you look like you are hiding something, but they aren't completely useless. They help filter out trash posts which usually don't add anything constructive to the ongoing discussion.

Very few sites open self-moderated threads in this forum because they are aware of the fact that they could be suspected for various reasons which is the smart move.

Sites like 4444sports which abuse this particular feature will easily be noticed in a negative light by members of this forum.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

What you have mentioned for sure can be basis for a closer look at the bets. In 1xbit, for example, scammers take advantage of the delay in updating the results on live betting, but probably there are more ways.

Bad example. You do realise that 1xbit itself is a scam site, don't you? I do agree that some scammers tried to scam 1xbit over time, but this is basically a case of robbers trying to steal from other robbers.

My point is that every bookmaker has the right to check the bets of each user if they seem suspicious to him. This is guaranteed by the rules to which everyone who decides to use the service agrees. The reasons may be different, the example I have given has no importance in this case.

[Reatim]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

[kotajikikox]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

If I'm not mistaken this is one of the thread you are referring ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0

because i also followed this thread when they first come here in forum and having a good conversation in their part, but just few days ago after several questions from the withdraws then they suddenly change the thread into self moderated and now deleted almost 40 posts already from 15 persons.

this is not a good way when i checked the deleted posts valuable and not foul towards their site.

[michellee]

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

Indeed. Many other gambling sites here, whether it is a new or old gambling site, allow us to play gambling and we will not have a problem if we follow their rule. If they still use Self Moderated threads but do not change their habit, users can create a new thread to tell their problem so hopefully, that can attract the attention of the others and the casino itself would be aware of the problem. But that is only if the casino has good efforts to solve every player's problem.