Self Moderated Thread for New Books

[brassnuts]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

[1715539567]

1715539567

[hyudien]

Is this the thread you mean? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0
you should contact the owner of the account and try to complain about what you are experiencing regarding the problem. Or why not reply directly to the thread instead of creating a new thread if the problem stems from the post. Send him a PM to provide a solution.

If you include a lot of valid evidence, you can file it in the fraud allegations thread. And don't let this go on for too long. Therefore, when you want to bet, try to do some research because on this forum there are many choices of casinos that have a good reputation and respond to problems experienced by their users.

I'm not a representative of any casino, so just a suggestion that might help you.

[acroman08]

yeah, it is a problem and worrying especially if they started deleting any complaints/issues being posted on their self moderated thread. and yeah, topics about self-moderated ANN threads have been discussed before and there's really nothing we can do about it other than create a separate thread discussing the issue(just like this one) that has been deleted on the self-moderated thread.

[brassnuts]

Is this the thread you mean? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0
you should contact the owner of the account and try to complain about what you are experiencing regarding the problem. Or why not reply directly to the thread instead of creating a new thread if the problem stems from the post. Send him a PM to provide a solution.

If you include a lot of valid evidence, you can file it in the fraud allegations thread. And don't let this go on for too long. Therefore, when you want to bet, try to do some research because on this forum there are many choices of casinos that have a good reputation and respond to problems experienced by their users.

I'm not a representative of any casino, so just a suggestion that might help you.

Correct. That is the thread.

Their old thread has not a single post confirming a withdrawal, but multiple accusations of unfairly voided bets, and withdrawals not being processed.

With that being the case, it is utterly astonishing that they are allowed to just remove their old thread and continue with a new self moderated thread, all the while deleting any negative posts. This does not protect the players, quite the opposite.

[DarkStar_]

With that being the case, it is utterly astonishing that they are allowed to just remove their old thread and continue with a new self moderated thread, all the while deleting any negative posts. This does not protect the players, quite the opposite.

The objectives of Bitcointalk's rules were never to protect the players from bad sportsbooks (or even regular forum users from scammers) - scams are not moderated. The right way to deal with this is to make a Scam Accusation so that the community can leave them negative trust feedback and utilize the flag system in order to place a red warning banner above their thread. I'd recommend posting a scam accusation for your case and see how they deal with it.

[brassnuts]

The objectives of Bitcointalk's rules were never to protect the players from bad sportsbooks (or even regular forum users from scammers) - scams are not moderated. The right way to deal with this is to make a Scam Accusation so that the community can leave them negative trust feedback and utilize the flag system in order to place a red warning banner above their thread. I'd recommend posting a scam accusation for your case and see how they deal with it.

Thanks for the reply. I have left a post in 4444's new thread for now, and I will wait for a response from them. I imagine my post will just be deleted but I will have one last shot. If nothing comes from it then I will open up a scam accusation.

EDIT: My post in their thread was indeed promptly deleted, so I will start a scam accusation shortly. Here is what I posted in the 4444 thread:

Hi,

You need to open some communication with me in regards of the money i have on 4444 and the withdrawal you refuse to process, or even talk to me about.

I am open to being entirely cordial and diplomatic about this. I am not here to troll you, I am simply here to retrieve, at the very least, the funds that I deposited on your site.

I hope you can do the right thing and steer your company in a positive direction.

Please do not deposit on this site.

[nakamura12]

Please do not deposit on this site.

Did you get the funds withdrawn from that site or did not?. I think if you provide the proof that you deposited and won something like that and didn't get to withdraw your funds id enough to open a scam accusations. I have posted in their thread and see if it will be deleted or not since I am asking why their old thread is locked and in archival.

[FatFork]

The objectives of Bitcointalk's rules were never to protect the players from bad sportsbooks (or even regular forum users from scammers) - scams are not moderated. The right way to deal with this is to make a Scam Accusation so that the community can leave them negative trust feedback and utilize the flag system in order to place a red warning banner above their thread. I'd recommend posting a scam accusation for your case and see how they deal with it.

Thanks for the reply. I have left a post in 4444's new thread for now, and I will wait for a response from them. I imagine my post will just be deleted but I will have one last shot. If nothing comes from it then I will open up a scam accusation.

There will always be a way for you to refer to your deleted post as it will be archived in external archives. This forum is constantly scraped by at least two external services that archive even deleted posts and threads. The first is Loyce.club, and the second is Ninjastic.space, so for instance, your post will always be accessible here: https://loyce.club/archive/posts/5861/58612368.html (or https://ninjastic.space/post/58612368)

Should your questions go unanswered again, I recommend opening a scam accusation against this casino in the appropriate board. Include all the relevant information and evidence there and refer to your legitimate questions in their self-moderated threads. The community members will flag their account when they find substantial evidence behind your accusation to serve as a warning to everyone.

[brassnuts]

Please do not deposit on this site.

Did you get the funds withdrawn from that site or did not?. I think if you provide the proof that you deposited and won something like that and didn't get to withdraw your funds id enough to open a scam accusations. I have posted in their thread and see if it will be deleted or not since I am asking why their old thread is locked and in archival.

No, I received nothing at all, nor have I received any communications from them. They have just taken my money, and since requesting a withdrawal they are doing everything they can to hide me. I would even go so far as to say I've been ultra polite to them. I have not been screaming in their thread etc. All I did was ask when my withdrawal would be processed, and what was taking so long. I was told 3 days ago they had to verify my bets, which gave me some hope, but since that time they have closed their threads and deleted anything I post in their new thread.

It's worrying that this behaviour is allowed to continue.

[brassnuts]

There will always be a way for you to refer to your deleted post as it will be archived in external archives. This forum is constantly scraped by at least two external services that archive even deleted posts and threads. The first is Loyce.club, and the second is Ninjastic.space, so for instance, your post will always be accessible here: https://loyce.club/archive/posts/5861/58612368.html (or https://ninjastic.space/post/58612368)

Should your questions go unanswered again, I recommend opening a scam accusation against this casino in the appropriate board. Include all the relevant information and evidence there and refer to your legitimate questions in their self-moderated threads. The community members will flag their account when they find substantial evidence behind your accusation to serve as a warning to everyone.

I will use those scrapes in my scam accusation thread. Thanks.

[DoublerHunter]

I will use those scrapes in my scam accusation thread. Thanks.

^ Is that you in their old thread having a claim about you did not withdraw your deposit?
And they insist that you are violating their TOS. IF that is so, just follow the suggestion above and make a thread on the scam accusation board but of course you should have valid proof of evidence towards them, no proof means it is an invalid accusation. Compile them all as your proof of accusation and DT members there will help you to flag them.

[brassnuts]

I will wait till my withdrawal request is 1 week old, which will be tomorrow night/monday morning and then open the scam thread. As someone else posted, they need to 'verify' my bets, so I am still clinging onto some hope. However, looking at how fast even the slightest negativity is being deleted from their self moderated thread I am extremely doubtful I will even receive my deposit back.

I still find it disturbing that this obviously nefarious site is allowed to continue here. Surely the option to not allow new books the option to self moderate would be extraordinarily easy to implement. This forum effectively facilitates scamming and it actually has the easy option to not facilitate scamming if it so wished but it chooses not to.

[Jawhead999]

When a new comer create self moderated thread and the @OP deleted all posts which he disagree, obviously it's suspicious. The thing is they didn't gave full explanation to you and there's no update until now. I feel like something is odd here, just take a look of their license.

Some corporate service providers will try and sell a Costa Rica Gaming License with a hefty price tag, but they aren’t being totally honest. While it is possible to set up an online gambling company in Costa Rica, any talk of a ‘license’ is misleading.

If you have create flag type 1, I will support it.

[brassnuts]

Some corporate service providers will try and sell a Costa Rica Gaming License with a hefty price tag, but they aren’t being totally honest. While it is possible to set up an online gambling company in Costa Rica, any talk of a ‘license’ is misleading.

If you have create flag type 1, I will support it.

Thanks. Yes I noticed the license issue straight away, so I knew I should never of even deposited in the first place. I can only blame myself.

[Wiwo]

Scam is not moderated on bitcointalk the forum is a decentralized forum and the players are left with the sole responsibility of protecting themselves from scams.
Once you don't violate the rules of the forum the sites are free to create a thread and self-mod it.

[Yogee]

14 comments deleted from 6 users as of this posting hehe. Their actions looked unprofessional but there's nothing you could do about it since it's also their right to have a moderated topic. You are also free to talk about them in a separate thread like you are doing now. Have you created a flag?

[panjul07]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience in the new site, yes it is really unfortunate to see the fact how they serve you as a player.
What they did is not professional at all, but I hope you'll get your money as soon as possible.
From now on, it is a warning to all members in this forum or to anyone who read this thread to avoid depositing in the site.
At least until they can prove that they are legit site and change their bad behavior to their own player.

[Eureka_07]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?
<snip>
I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

Most self moderated threads specially here in Gambling section is very suspicious. If you are an owner of staff of a casino/other related business, you should not create a self moderated thread so the transparency is maximized. Most of those that has self moderated threads are scams and are hiding something from the community.

The site that you mentioned is new right? It is one of the reason why I do play and jump from one casino to another. I prefer playing on those that has really good reputation. Sorry for your lost. gl.

[dustboy]

14 comments deleted from 6 users as of this posting hehe. Their actions looked unprofessional but there's nothing you could do about it since it's also their right to have a moderated topic. You are also free to talk about them in a separate thread like you are doing now. Have you created a flag?

24 posts now including mine lmao, my post is suggesting them to act professionally in solving player's issue. I did not attack them, but seems 4444sports is managed by a sensitive kid who are not welcome to suggestion/opinion. How can they expect to gain interest from this community if they act like that?

In the archived thread, there is also someone who is waiting for his withdrawal like brassnuts but I cant see a confirmation about the withdrawal from the bookie or the player (younger41).

[YinShuiSiYuan]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

If the bookmaker has doubts about any bets, he has the right to check them. A week of time is not yet a very long period of waiting for an answer. I understand your impatience, but spamming his thread is not the best behavior.
As for slef-moderated thread, this is not practiced, but I don't consider it a bad thing.

[Ryker1]

^[snip]
The site that you mentioned is new right? It is one of the reason why I do play and jump from one casino to another. I prefer playing on those that has really good reputation. Sorry for your lost. gl.

Well right, --that is the reason why I did not gamble on a new gambling casino, aside from that, they are many buggies too that make you annoyed upon playing on their casino. I don't like to comment in ANN thread that has moderated because it means they are not transparent to the community. A company like that should not gain any on this community because they are acting very weird and smell like they had something to hide. Suspicious gambling casinos should not be used, let them operate without players.

[Erdogan]

^[snip]
The site that you mentioned is new right? It is one of the reason why I do play and jump from one casino to another. I prefer playing on those that has really good reputation. Sorry for your lost. gl.

Well right, --that is the reason why I did not gamble on a new gambling casino, aside from that, they are many buggies too that make you annoyed upon playing on their casino. I don't like to comment in ANN thread that has moderated because it means they are not transparent to the community. A company like that should not gain any on this community because they are acting very weird and smell like they had something to hide. Suspicious gambling casinos should not be used, let them operate without players.

Just because thread is self moderated does not mean the casino or bookmaker is a cheat. Bitcasino.io it also has a self moderated thread and is an honest gambling platform.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4541166.0

The possibility of creating moderated threads is to keep the conversation in order. Let's wait for a reply from 4444sport and hope it's just a misunderstanding and money will be refunded.

[hyudien]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience in the new site, yes it is really unfortunate to see the fact how they serve you as a player.
What they did is not professional at all, but I hope you'll get your money as soon as possible.
From now on, it is a warning to all members in this forum or to anyone who read this thread to avoid depositing in the site.
At least until they can prove that they are legit site and change their bad behavior to their own player.

Therefore, gambling at a casino with a reputation above 4 stars will be very useful in the future if at any time what the OP is experiencing is easier to deal with. We learn that the assessment of the casino is truly one of the benchmarks that we must follow, at least not to make the money we bet lose without accountability from the casino.

[bitgov]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience in the new site, yes it is really unfortunate to see the fact how they serve you as a player.
What they did is not professional at all, but I hope you'll get your money as soon as possible.
From now on, it is a warning to all members in this forum or to anyone who read this thread to avoid depositing in the site.
At least until they can prove that they are legit site and change their bad behavior to their own player.

Therefore, gambling at a casino with a reputation above 4 stars will be very useful in the future if at any time what the OP is experiencing is easier to deal with. We learn that the assessment of the casino is truly one of the benchmarks that we must follow, at least not to make the money we bet lose without accountability from the casino.

It takes some time to judge a casino or bookmaker. In this case it is a very new bookmaker, so we still don't know what quality their services are.
The bookmaker didn't say the bets were canceled, just that they are still checking the bets. Let's give him some time to sort things out and it might be okay.

[brassnuts]

It's highly unlikely that I will see any money. Like I said before, there is not a single confirmed withdrawal from 4444 at all. They have spent a week to 'verify' the bets and have not even thought to send me an email about it. The other guy complaining in their old thread was told his bets were voided and they would send back his initial deposit, and so far 4 days later he has not received a thing.

You would think after all this drama they would see to these issues as a matter of priority. The reason they don't is because they are just a scam site, deleting any negativity from their current thread to give the image of being a fair book, so they can grab any funds that are deposited by the unsuspecting.

Their Costa Rica license is just words typed on the page. Costa Rican licenses are not even a thing as far as I can tell. There is no link to their license when you click, as there are with most other licenses.

Even if I were to receive some money back, it would only be my deposit, as they will come up with some strange excuse to void all of my bets. It will also take another week or 2 to sort any issue out, maybe longer, because they either need to grab a few more $ and run, or at best ponzi some $ to me for my deposit back so that they hope the drama will die down and they can attempt to steal from more people.

Any player even slightly supporting them at this point is a guaranteed shill, and it's no surprise that most of those that do have negative trust ratings.

[Adzivu]

I find it strange that they  sent me a PM on November 19th asking to check out their platform and offering me 5€, without me even once posting in their thread.
My first thought was that they are the same guy/group that was behind "Adkinsbet".

First they had a normal thread, then after a lot of complaints made one that was self moderated.
+ most of the adkinsbet shills are now 1xbet shills and are also defending 4444sport.

[acroman08]

I find it strange that they  sent me a PM on November 19th asking to check out their platform and offering me 5€, without me even once posting in their thread.

yep, it was a stupid thing to do, they are lucky that no one reported what they did or if someone did report their unsolicited PMs, the mods let it pass.

First they had a normal thread, then after a lot of complaints made one that was self moderated.

I'd understand if it was due to spam, troll, etc... but seeing that they deleted any post that has something against them only shows that they don't want people to see the issue people experience on their website. I hope they realize that the issues that they try to hide can be used to build their reputation if they responded/resolve it properly.

[Adzivu]

I reported that PM to the mods.
They did nothing.

[hyudien]

I reported that PM to the mods.
They did nothing.

The mod has a lot of messages and tasks that will definitely take some time to respond to your reports. So I hope you are patient and don't send too many messages to the Mod. It will just be considered spam and ignored. If they have time, they will definitely follow up on your case as it should, according to valid data. but so far I think since this is getting too long and time consuming, maybe you should just take suggestions first. No one really guarantees 100% of your money back.

[Erdogan]

It's true that 4444sport is a new bookmaker, but from what I've seen, there were only two complaints and one of them has already been positively considered. I find it too radical to call someone a scammer because too long has been researching the case.

[Eureka_07]

It's true that 4444sport is a new bookmaker, but from what I've seen, there were only two complaints and one of them has already been positively considered. I find it too radical to call someone a scammer because too long has been researching the case.

They are deleting posts on their thread even though users are just asking on what is happening on those cases, most particularly, to that not processed withdrawal for more than a week now.
Isn't it suspicious that they created a self-moderated thread?

[mindrust]

I almost never post in those self-modded threads. It doesn't make sense. The OP will just remove the posts which he don't like and push his own propaganda. If there is a scam going on however, you can always create a flag, a scam accusation thread or/and give a negative feedback to the account in question.

Sometimes even these won't stop the scammers sadly. Look how 1xbit operates. People threw them all the shit and yet they give zero fucks.

[brassnuts]

It's true that 4444sport is a new bookmaker, but from what I've seen, there were only two complaints and one of them has already been positively considered. I find it too radical to call someone a scammer because too long has been researching the case.

It was not 'positively considered'. The customer in question has stated in their new thread that he never received that withdrawal, and every time he mentions it they just delete his comments.

There is still no positive confirmation of any withdrawal whatsoever from 4444sport. Just complaints and lots of comments being deleted. Please, wake up.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

I almost never post in those self-modded threads. It doesn't make sense. The OP will just remove the posts which he don't like and push his own propaganda. If there is a scam going on however, you can always create a flag, a scam accusation thread or/and give a negative feedback to the account in question.

Sometimes even these won't stop the scammers sadly. Look how 1xbit operates. People threw them all the shit and yet they give zero fucks.

Also, I don't like self moderated threads when it comes to projects. However, I have noticed that more and more attacks by trolls, which just for fun, just to irritate people and destroy normal discussion. Hopefully the owner intent was to get rid of the trolls and the OP will get back the locked account and money.

Edit - I must admit I'm surprised. I wrote this post in the thread 4444sport but don't know why it was deleted

I think it is possible to make 300 bets in a few days when someone is betting on a lot of events or matches mainly on live betting.

It seems that the time of waiting for verification of this 300 bets is the most controversial at the moment. My guess is that only when you finish it will you know exactly how long it takes, but are you now able to give an estimate of the time or is it still impossible?

[AicecreaME]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

It's the cons of a self-moderated thread. The moderator can do whatever they want from their thread and that includes deleting all the negative feedbacks and complaints to them. It's pretty much common. Everything that they see that they don't like or which seems to be not fit in the thread, they will remove it in an instant without you having to do anything with it because their thread, their rules apparently.

Now, if that thread has been proven to be harmful and spreads fake news or whatnots and you feel like it violates your right as a member in this forum, I suggest you escalate it to those who has the power to investigate the issue. I think even self-moderated thread can still be investigated upon most especially if it really overtakes its boundaries. You can post in scams and accusations together with your evidences that they keep on doing what you are claiming to do, and it affects you and others negatively. I think they can make some action for that. But really, that's what we will really usually get with self-moderated threads here. It could be a bit off, unfair, and offensive, most especially if you are raising a complaint or you just want to make other people aware of the disadvantages, but that's it. Just do necessary actions if you feel like doing so. I guess other people have done that as well before up until today. You may check out the board I just gave.

[Kakmakr]

It is all good and well that we can create scam accusations threads, but the question is... "Do anyone visit the scam accusation section"? They will go to the gambling section of this forum to look for new sites and they will see a "cleansed" version of the thread for that casino.

People should rather "report" the OP of those threads ..so that they could be "red flagged" when people visit those threads. (The red trust will make people think twice, before they accept anything that they see in that thread.)

You should still open a scam accusation thread .. because the person might search or Google the "site + scam" and find your thread. Just make sure you are 100% sure of your facts, before you open that thread.. because people will scrutinize it. Some people misuse that section because they lost a lot of money and they want to burn the reputation of the casino where they lost the money.. or competitors will use Alts to eliminate the competition. 

[brassnuts]

When I went to make a scam thread there was already one up warning others to be cautious with 4444. The thread gained some traction and the 4444 thread now has a warning flag and the OP has a lot of negative trust now. It's the best we can do atm it seems.

EDIT: The thread is here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375673.0

[dustboy]

When I went to make a scam thread there was already one up warning others to be cautious with 4444. The thread gained some traction and the 4444 thread now has a warning flag and the OP has a lot of negative trust now. It's the best we can do atm it seems.

EDIT: The thread is here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375673.0

By the way, would you mind to share how much is your pending withdrawal? Is it something really big or not that big? I cant understand why they take so long time to verify all your bets. I know you made hundreds bets (as what they claim), but I do not think all those bets need to be verified. It is reasonable to verify some but it seems they are verifying all (in case they are doing it).

[brassnuts]

By the way, would you mind to share how much is your pending withdrawal? Is it something really big or not that big? I cant understand why they take so long time to verify all your bets. I know you made hundreds bets (as what they claim), but I do not think all those bets need to be verified. It is reasonable to verify some but it seems they are verifying all (in case they are doing it).

I deposited $800 and managed to turn it into around $5000. I ran hot on my big bets. I am not surprised they want to stop me withdrawing as it's a big hit to a new book, and from what some one mentioned to me, this book probably does not even have that much money to send to me. So in a way I had some sympathy at the time, but I have none now as they communicated with me on one occasion and have completely ceased since.

There was nothing fishy about my bets fwiw. I can post all of them on here.

[4444sport.com]

By the way, would you mind to share how much is your pending withdrawal? Is it something really big or not that big? I cant understand why they take so long time to verify all your bets. I know you made hundreds bets (as what they claim), but I do not think all those bets need to be verified. It is reasonable to verify some but it seems they are verifying all (in case they are doing it).

I deposited $800 and managed to turn it into around $5000. I ran hot on my big bets. I am not surprised they want to stop me withdrawing as it's a big hit to a new book, and from what some one mentioned to me, this book probably does not even have that much money to send to me. So in a way I had some sympathy at the time, but I have none now as they communicated with me on one occasion and have completely ceased since.

There was nothing fishy about my bets fwiw. I can post all of them on here.

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

[brassnuts]

I finally received my first ever email from 4444sport since I registered. Unfortunately it's telling me that they're closing my account, and they'll be keeping the funds I deposited for the 'damages' that I've caused. I'm not sure what I damaged, but it must of hurt, considering I deposited $800. No explanation is given. A simple message that I cheated and they're taking the lot. A complete scam.

Good day,

Our security team came to the conclusion that you have cheated on our site.
To cover the costs and damage from this, the funds will be confiscated and the account is permanently closed.


Best regards,
Customer Support Team
https://4444sport.com/

[brassnuts]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

The user did not cheat. The user bet only on big markets. The user was value betting. It is not the fault of the user, it is the fault of the absolute incompetency of your sports betting site.

[acroman08]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.

I rarely suggest this since it would take some of their time and I am not sure if they would agree, but if you are afraid of showing some confidential/technical details to the public, you can try and ask some reputable members here in the forum to review the evidence you have that pins brassnuts actually cheated your website.

[Erdogan]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

The user did not cheat. The user bet only on big markets. The user was value betting. It is not the fault of the user, it is the fault of the absolute incompetency of your sports betting site.

Can you tell if you were betting on live betting? If so, what were the sports?
Did you bet on point advantages in live table tennis in the last seconds of the match?

[brassnuts]

No table tennis bets at all. Every bet was a big soccer league in a high liquidity market. I am happy to post my bets.

Incidentally their Costa Rican license is completely fake.

[NotATether]

If the bookmaker has doubts about any bets, he has the right to check them. A week of time is not yet a very long period of waiting for an answer. I understand your impatience, but spamming his thread is not the best behavior.

Enlighten me about the kind of "doubts" you are talking about because sportsbook odds are given to them by 3rd party services.

You can't just walk up and inspect anyone's bet because usually there is nothing to inspect in the first place (with the exceptions of: checking for money laundering, arbitrage betting, and other kinds of fraud or grey area stuff).

~

The user did not cheat. The user bet only on big markets. The user was value betting. It is not the fault of the user, it is the fault of the absolute incompetency of your sports betting site.

Lol. If they had a real problem with cheating, a sane casino would've patched that security hole so that more of their precious time in maintenance doesn't get wasted on problems they already found. Not waste time banning accounts like these guys are doing now.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

If the bookmaker has doubts about any bets, he has the right to check them. A week of time is not yet a very long period of waiting for an answer. I understand your impatience, but spamming his thread is not the best behavior.

Enlighten me about the kind of "doubts" you are talking about because sportsbook odds are given to them by 3rd party services.

You can't just walk up and inspect anyone's bet because usually there is nothing to inspect in the first place (with the exceptions of: checking for money laundering, arbitrage betting, and other kinds of fraud or grey area stuff).

I didn't mean any particular situation. Simply put, the bookmaker has the right to check whether there has been any cheating and that's it. I think if they has suspicions they can just check it out.
What you have mentioned for sure can be basis for a closer look at the bets. In 1xbit, for example, scammers take advantage of the delay in updating the results on live betting, but probably there are more ways.

[brassnuts]

There is nothing to inspect or verify. It's all just a load of rubbish from a scam site.

The bets I placed were about 65% pre match 1x2 or O/U markets, and about 35% live 1x2 or O/U. All on soccer markets in the worlds biggest leagues.

I am 100% sure that while 4444 are still an active company that they will happily take depositors money but as soon as someone wins some money, which can happen in this industry believe it or not, they will just call shenanigans and proceed to steal whatever they can.

The only other user who has posted about any sort of experience on this site is 'younger41' and the exact same situation happened to him. So far this site has a 100% scam record in regards to activity from users on this forum.

[FatFork]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.

That's so convenient for you, isn't it? Unfortunately we have no way of verifying your claims other than by your word. The thing is, you are a brand new casino here with no reputation, so your word doesn't carry much weight. In addition, you tend to censor excessively in your self-moderated thread and have a negative attitude towards the community, which is why I am inclined to doubt your claims.

I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.

Unless you claim that making a fair profit at your casino is impossible, this is not a valid argument.

[Bitinity]

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.

I rarely suggest this since it would take some of their time and I am not sure if they would agree, but if you are afraid of showing some confidential/technical details to the public, you can try and ask some reputable members here in the forum to review the evidence you have that pins brassnuts actually cheated your website.

It is true and it would be fair for both party. Accusing someone should be proved by evidence.  In all other cases, players need to provide evidence(s) when they face an issue with a specific platform. It wont be fair if casino can accuse player as cheater by words only without single proof. I'm wondering since the player made hundreds bets, are all those bets considered as cheating? How about other players who bet on the same markets as him, are all players affected?

[Adzivu]

By the way, would you mind to share how much is your pending withdrawal? Is it something really big or not that big? I cant understand why they take so long time to verify all your bets. I know you made hundreds bets (as what they claim), but I do not think all those bets need to be verified. It is reasonable to verify some but it seems they are verifying all (in case they are doing it).

I deposited $800 and managed to turn it into around $5000. I ran hot on my big bets. I am not surprised they want to stop me withdrawing as it's a big hit to a new book, and from what some one mentioned to me, this book probably does not even have that much money to send to me. So in a way I had some sympathy at the time, but I have none now as they communicated with me on one occasion and have completely ceased since.

There was nothing fishy about my bets fwiw. I can post all of them on here.

This user cheated on our site. We can not enclose any technical details, since other people would be able to cheat as well on this.
I think everybody already suspected this, since the user made sure he turned 800$ into 5500$.
We faced damage from this cheating behaviour from customers, to the amount from user Brassnuts has been confiscated.


Please check section 3.1 E in our Terms:
Suspend and/or cancel the participation of the Account Holder in the Services, and/or forfeit and/or confiscate funds available on their 4444sport Account if the Account Holder is found cheating, or if it is determined by 4444sport that the Account Holder has employed or made use of a system (including machines, robots, computers, software or any other automated system) designed to defeat or capable of defeating the Client Application and/or Software.

How convenient .
User cheated while betting on the biggest football leagues?
What a lame excuse.

[mak013]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam. If you want to spent your time - read this thread, trying to find negative posts warning about scam. I`m sure - you willn`t find such posts, or 1-2 from newbie accounts.
And under the thread name you can see how many posts were deleted, in 4444sport.com thread - it looks so: (39 posts by 15 users with 1 merit deleted.)
Don`t even try to find the truth in such threads, it is impossible.

[panjul07]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam.

You cant generalize it, not all self moderated are bad or scam.
It depends on how the thread opener use it, sometime there are some trolling posts, FUD, or baseless accusation that need to be deleted so the self-moderated feature is good for this purpose.
In this case 4444sports do it very bad, they are abusing the feature of self moderated thread to delete posts as they wish.

[Haunebu]

What you have mentioned for sure can be basis for a closer look at the bets. In 1xbit, for example, scammers take advantage of the delay in updating the results on live betting, but probably there are more ways.

Bad example. You do realise that 1xbit itself is a scam site, don't you? I do agree that some scammers tried to scam 1xbit over time, but this is basically a case of robbers trying to steal from other robbers.

Don`t even try to find the truth in such threads, it is impossible.

Agreed. 4444sports didn't bother paying out the winners in their recent contests in the games and rounds section too which makes them seem even more shady currently.

[Ryker1]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam.

You cant generalize it, not all self moderated are bad or scam.
It depends on how the thread opener use it, sometime there are some trolling posts, FUD, or baseless accusation that need to be deleted so the self-moderated feature is good for this purpose.
In this case 4444sports do it very bad, they are abusing the feature of self moderated thread to delete posts as they wish.

Well, I disagree with your opinion --it should have transparency and not delete the post that they don't want as they wish.
It is normal in a gambling business because that is a part of a competition, FUD or fake news are simply very common and all you have to do is depend on yourself or ignore them. As long as you are doing it right, users may be on your side and not on the FUDs, scammers, and fraudsters. Besides, their accuse will not be proven if they don't have solid proof, and that way you can depend on yourself, and creating a self-moderated thread is not a good idea which looks bad in your place.

[Haunebu]

Besides, their accuse will not be proven if they don't have solid proof, and that way you can depend on yourself, and creating a self-moderated thread is not a good idea which looks bad in your place.

I partially agree with you. Self-moderated threads do infact make you look like you are hiding something, but they aren't completely useless. They help filter out trash posts which usually don't add anything constructive to the ongoing discussion.

Very few sites open self-moderated threads in this forum because they are aware of the fact that they could be suspected for various reasons which is the smart move.

Sites like 4444sports which abuse this particular feature will easily be noticed in a negative light by members of this forum.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

What you have mentioned for sure can be basis for a closer look at the bets. In 1xbit, for example, scammers take advantage of the delay in updating the results on live betting, but probably there are more ways.

Bad example. You do realise that 1xbit itself is a scam site, don't you? I do agree that some scammers tried to scam 1xbit over time, but this is basically a case of robbers trying to steal from other robbers.

My point is that every bookmaker has the right to check the bets of each user if they seem suspicious to him. This is guaranteed by the rules to which everyone who decides to use the service agrees. The reasons may be different, the example I have given has no importance in this case.

[Reatim]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

[kotajikikox]

Hello,

I'm wondering if the subject of self moderated threads for brand new sites has been discussed on this board before? If so, can anyone point me to it or to some information about any conclusions that were reached?

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

Now, I have had an issue with 4444sport recently where they simply delete any attempt at communication from their 3rd thread in as many weeks. Effectively they can completely remove any legitimate complaints and have the appearance of a normal, fair book. They are no such thing, it is quite clear. Even more worrying is the fact that once all negativity is removed unsuspecting forum users may end up depositing on these type of websites and just pour their money down the drain, entirely enabled by the self moderated thread system here on this board.

This is an extraordinarily serious issue and should absolutely be looked at hastily.

I hope my point is clear and you understand how dangerous self moderated threads are, particularly for sites with limited history and reputation.

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

If I'm not mistaken this is one of the thread you are referring ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0

because i also followed this thread when they first come here in forum and having a good conversation in their part, but just few days ago after several questions from the withdraws then they suddenly change the thread into self moderated and now deleted almost 40 posts already from 15 persons.

this is not a good way when i checked the deleted posts valuable and not foul towards their site.

[michellee]

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

Indeed. Many other gambling sites here, whether it is a new or old gambling site, allow us to play gambling and we will not have a problem if we follow their rule. If they still use Self Moderated threads but do not change their habit, users can create a new thread to tell their problem so hopefully, that can attract the attention of the others and the casino itself would be aware of the problem. But that is only if the casino has good efforts to solve every player's problem.

[Cryptock]

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

Indeed. Many other gambling sites here, whether it is a new or old gambling site, allow us to play gambling and we will not have a problem if we follow their rule. If they still use Self Moderated threads but do not change their habit, users can create a new thread to tell their problem so hopefully, that can attract the attention of the others and the casino itself would be aware of the problem. But that is only if the casino has good efforts to solve every player's problem.

The most important thing is that the casino has good intentions. If the casino is fair, it's no problem to have a self-moderated thread. However, in this case it may unfortunately be about silencing all those who will be submitting issues.

[btc78]

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

Indeed. Many other gambling sites here, whether it is a new or old gambling site, allow us to play gambling and we will not have a problem if we follow their rule. If they still use Self Moderated threads but do not change their habit, users can create a new thread to tell their problem so hopefully, that can attract the attention of the others and the casino itself would be aware of the problem. But that is only if the casino has good efforts to solve every player's problem.

The most important thing is that the casino has good intentions. If the casino is fair, it's no problem to have a self-moderated thread. However, in this case it may unfortunately be about silencing all those who will be submitting issues.

Why would a casino that has good intention created a Self moderated thread? give me a valid reason for what can be the reason?

if the casino is fair they need no Moderation in their thread because even their players will attest or stand for them and prove the accusations wrong .

the problem is those who are making their thread moderated because they cannot totally defend their position and that is why they wanted to delete posts that will go against them and that is why there are many of them that has this strategy and never do business with those, and besides why need when you can choose other site that has no total cases?

[bitterguy28]

There are too many posts deleted in that Gambling site and since they created a self moderated thread, i prevent my self from posting because i will going to question their capacity to answer questions and it looks like they have no power and that same reason why they wanna hide in self moderated thread.

[Cryptock]

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

Indeed. Many other gambling sites here, whether it is a new or old gambling site, allow us to play gambling and we will not have a problem if we follow their rule. If they still use Self Moderated threads but do not change their habit, users can create a new thread to tell their problem so hopefully, that can attract the attention of the others and the casino itself would be aware of the problem. But that is only if the casino has good efforts to solve every player's problem.

The most important thing is that the casino has good intentions. If the casino is fair, it's no problem to have a self-moderated thread. However, in this case it may unfortunately be about silencing all those who will be submitting issues.

Why would a casino that has good intention created a Self moderated thread? give me a valid reason for what can be the reason?

if the casino is fair they need no Moderation in their thread because even their players will attest or stand for them and prove the accusations wrong .

the problem is those who are making their thread moderated because they cannot totally defend their position and that is why they wanted to delete posts that will go against them and that is why there are many of them that has this strategy and never do business with those, and besides why need when you can choose other site that has no total cases?

The reason may be perfectly normal, just to keep the conversation in order and defend against attacks by forum trolls.
That's what such an option on this forum is for.
However, as I wrote, in this case everything indicates that the reason for creating a self-moderated thread is unfortunately completely different.

[mak013]

If you see self-moderated thread - this is mostly scam.

You cant generalize it, not all self moderated are bad or scam.
It depends on how the thread opener use it, sometime there are some trolling posts, FUD, or baseless accusation that need to be deleted so the self-moderated feature is good for this purpose.
In this case 4444sports do it very bad, they are abusing the feature of self moderated thread to delete posts as they wish.

You quoted just a part of my message. I agree, that not all self-moderated threads are the scam, it said even in quoted part of message. Sometimes this is wrong and we can find a thread, that self-moderated just fo keep it cleen.
And than there is another part of message, 

If you want to spent your time - read this thread, trying to find negative posts warning about scam. I`m sure - you willn`t find such posts, or 1-2 from newbie accounts.

that helps to understand is the thread is scam.

[goldkingcoiner]

There are too many posts deleted in that Gambling site and since they created a self moderated thread, i prevent my self from posting because i will going to question their capacity to answer questions and it looks like they have no power and that same reason why they wanna hide in self moderated thread.

Yeah, it would seem a lot of self-moderated threads are spawning grounds for petty scams and dubious schemes. I would keep away from such threads because there needs to be somebody or a group of somebodies who are trustworthy enough so that you can be certain you can trust them so you most likely won't lose your time and money. Some things look too good to be true and some things are very obviously risky at the get-go.

[michellee]

Never deal with a gambling site either sports or casino that has Self Moderated threads here , because they are using to be moderating the thread because of the attacks but if you are not hiding anything then sure they will just ignore those attacks and answer only legitimate questions.
this is an obvious wat of preventing issues arise against their site and this will end up hiding the reality .
just like the 444casino that has recently being question because they locked their old thred and create another one in which self moderated after some players has an issue about withdrawals.

Indeed. Many other gambling sites here, whether it is a new or old gambling site, allow us to play gambling and we will not have a problem if we follow their rule. If they still use Self Moderated threads but do not change their habit, users can create a new thread to tell their problem so hopefully, that can attract the attention of the others and the casino itself would be aware of the problem. But that is only if the casino has good efforts to solve every player's problem.

The most important thing is that the casino has good intentions. If the casino is fair, it's no problem to have a self-moderated thread. However, in this case it may unfortunately be about silencing all those who will be submitting issues.

As many others say, if the casino does that, it will look suspicious because they can delete any comments or complaints, especially if they have a problem. If the casino is fair, they do not have to be self-moderated instead, let it open and transparent to the public to know that they are trying to build trust. Moreover, the trust will be connected to the reputations of the casino shortly. If the casino is trying to figure out every problem that comes to them and fix it, people will see how they work hard to manage and help people.

[Jawhead999]

Here is the summary :

brassnuts : I can't withdraw my winnings.

4444sport.com : We need to verify all your bets, it took 72 hours.

brassnuts : But it's already over 72 hours.

4444sport.com away. After he got several negative trust and flagged he come back.

4444sport.com : Okay, so our system detect you're cheating our casino and you broke our TOS.


Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

[TinaK]

<....>
Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

That's such a loophole because they don't have an excuse, self-moderated thread as of now has been still recovered those replies and comments through Tryninja's website. It's completely nonsense that they created a self-moderated thread.

I saw this topic days ago and I didn't know if brassnuts was provided  solid proof or the 4444sport.com have a valid proof also that this brassnuts really violate the TOS. Self moderated thread should not be applied on the announcement thread, it should be transparent to the other either you have been accused or abused. The truth will always disclose with a valid proof of course.

[Bitinity]

Here is the summary :

brassnuts : I can't withdraw my winnings.
4444sport.com : We need to verify all your bets, it took 72 hours.
brassnuts : But it's already over 72 hours.
4444sport.com away. After he got several negative trust and flagged he come back.
4444sport.com : Okay, so our system detect you're cheating our casino and you broke our TOS.

Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

This is an old school scenario from scammers, first they are delaying payment for verification then accusing the player did something against the ToS. It  is fine to check bets for further verification, but accusing players breaking the rules or cheating without any single proof is unacceptable practice. What 4444sports did by deleting posts is just another proof that they cant be trusted.

[rodskee]

Here is the summary :

brassnuts : I can't withdraw my winnings.

4444sport.com : We need to verify all your bets, it took 72 hours.

brassnuts : But it's already over 72 hours.

4444sport.com away. After he got several negative trust and flagged he come back.

4444sport.com : Okay, so our system detect you're cheating our casino and you broke our TOS.


Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

What's new with that mate ,  They even hate when you post formal and good advise in their thread telling that it is Out of Topic when they clearly ask for community suggestion and opinion.
they are truly a scam site that pretend to be legit but in the end cases pointing to tehir attitude as a bad gambling site and not to be trusted.
and it is good that i did not even try to deposit when at first i almost fell when i created an account and find their site good to start .

[mak013]

Here is the summary :

brassnuts : I can't withdraw my winnings.

4444sport.com : We need to verify all your bets, it took 72 hours.

brassnuts : But it's already over 72 hours.

4444sport.com away. After he got several negative trust and flagged he come back.

4444sport.com : Okay, so our system detect you're cheating our casino and you broke our TOS.


Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

What's new with that mate ,  They even hate when you post formal and good advise in their thread telling that it is Out of Topic when they clearly ask for community suggestion and opinion.
they are truly a scam site that pretend to be legit but in the end cases pointing to tehir attitude as a bad gambling site and not to be trusted.
and it is good that i did not even try to deposit when at first i almost fell when i created an account and find their site good to start .

As usual. If i see self-moderated thread - i even don`t try to read this. May be i will lose some opportunity, but my money will be safe.
In the 4444sport thread we see classic mistakes of the scam: self-moderated thread, removing negative posts.
In this situation the community help attracted attention to one more scam thread but i don`t think that it can help OP to return his money back. The best choice even not to try to win the cheater.

[YinShuiSiYuan]

Here is the summary :

brassnuts : I can't withdraw my winnings.

4444sport.com : We need to verify all your bets, it took 72 hours.

brassnuts : But it's already over 72 hours.

4444sport.com away. After he got several negative trust and flagged he come back.

4444sport.com : Okay, so our system detect you're cheating our casino and you broke our TOS.


Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

This situation actually looks quite unfavorable for 4444sport. Unfortunately, not giving specific reasons or even evidence that the rules have been violated will also be a big problem for the bookmaker. If he does not change his policy, it is very likely that the community will have a similar opinion as about 1xbit.

[SmokerFace]

Is this the thread you mean? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0
you should contact the owner of the account and try to complain about what you are experiencing regarding the problem. Or why not reply directly to the thread instead of creating a new thread if the problem stems from the post. Send him a PM to provide a solution.

If you include a lot of valid evidence, you can file it in the fraud allegations thread. And don't let this go on for too long. Therefore, when you want to bet, try to do some research because on this forum there are many choices of casinos that have a good reputation and respond to problems experienced by their users.

I'm not a representative of any casino, so just a suggestion that might help you.

I agree, but it's mandatory to have some research before making any deposit on any site. There are different blogs, websites, and expert opinions which can guide us that either making any deposit on any particular site would be safe or not? We can't blame any website for committing any fraud if we haven't completed our homework against it. However if still faces any of such fraud experiences. I would suggest you to post it in the fraud allegations thread, as this may help to protect many new users to become a fraud of those scam sites.

[Cryptock]

Is this the thread you mean? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0
you should contact the owner of the account and try to complain about what you are experiencing regarding the problem. Or why not reply directly to the thread instead of creating a new thread if the problem stems from the post. Send him a PM to provide a solution.

If you include a lot of valid evidence, you can file it in the fraud allegations thread. And don't let this go on for too long. Therefore, when you want to bet, try to do some research because on this forum there are many choices of casinos that have a good reputation and respond to problems experienced by their users.

I'm not a representative of any casino, so just a suggestion that might help you.

I agree, but it's mandatory to have some research before making any deposit on any site. There are different blogs, websites, and expert opinions which can guide us that either making any deposit on any particular site would be safe or not? We can't blame any website for committing any fraud if we haven't completed our homework against it. However if still faces any of such fraud experiences. I would suggest you to post it in the fraud allegations thread, as this may help to protect many new users to become a fraud of those scam sites.

Of course, before giving your money to anyone, we should do a thorough research about who it is and whether it is trustworthy. However, in this case, the question is also whether creating a self moderated thread could be a sign that the casino has bad intentions. In my opinion, it is very likely in this case.

[mak013]

Is this the thread you mean? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5375271.0
you should contact the owner of the account and try to complain about what you are experiencing regarding the problem. Or why not reply directly to the thread instead of creating a new thread if the problem stems from the post. Send him a PM to provide a solution.

If you include a lot of valid evidence, you can file it in the fraud allegations thread. And don't let this go on for too long. Therefore, when you want to bet, try to do some research because on this forum there are many choices of casinos that have a good reputation and respond to problems experienced by their users.

I'm not a representative of any casino, so just a suggestion that might help you.

I agree, but it's mandatory to have some research before making any deposit on any site. There are different blogs, websites, and expert opinions which can guide us that either making any deposit on any particular site would be safe or not? We can't blame any website for committing any fraud if we haven't completed our homework against it. However if still faces any of such fraud experiences. I would suggest you to post it in the fraud allegations thread, as this may help to protect many new users to become a fraud of those scam sites.

I think that we will not see the fair decision in this situation. All we can do is just to stop other users. Just repeat to make research before depositing money, reading threads like this. In any promo thread we can see different posts, with problems too. Never everybody will be happy with any service. Someone always will fill himself cheated, and we can see the reaction of administration and their communication with such users.

[rodskee]

Here is the summary :

brassnuts : I can't withdraw my winnings.

4444sport.com : We need to verify all your bets, it took 72 hours.

brassnuts : But it's already over 72 hours.

4444sport.com away. After he got several negative trust and flagged he come back.

4444sport.com : Okay, so our system detect you're cheating our casino and you broke our TOS.


Lol lame excuses, they thought when they delete other user posts the accusations is already over. But after got several negative trust and flagged, they decide to accuse their victim broke other rules... to make they're correct.

What's new with that mate ,  They even hate when you post formal and good advise in their thread telling that it is Out of Topic when they clearly ask for community suggestion and opinion.
they are truly a scam site that pretend to be legit but in the end cases pointing to tehir attitude as a bad gambling site and not to be trusted.
and it is good that i did not even try to deposit when at first i almost fell when i created an account and find their site good to start .

As usual. If i see self-moderated thread - i even don`t try to read this. May be i will lose some opportunity, but my money will be safe.
In the 4444sport thread we see classic mistakes of the scam: self-moderated thread, removing negative posts.
In this situation the community help attracted attention to one more scam thread but i don`t think that it can help OP to return his money back. The best choice even not to try to win the cheater.

it is the sites loses and not OP actually , they may have the amount that OP wins but they lose the whole community of Bitcointalk in which there are more opportunity of gaining players and many bettors on their part.
they are just letting the whole community to prevent from playing on their site and now they totally lose all those hopes because at first they are asking for 72 hours waiting but now it is more than a week yet there is no settlement happening so how can they still claim of not scamming when it is obvious shows what their intention is.

[mak013]

As usual. If i see self-moderated thread - i even don`t try to read this. May be i will lose some opportunity, but my money will be safe.
In the 4444sport thread we see classic mistakes of the scam: self-moderated thread, removing negative posts.
In this situation the community help attracted attention to one more scam thread but i don`t think that it can help OP to return his money back. The best choice even not to try to win the cheater.

it is the sites loses and not OP actually , they may have the amount that OP wins but they lose the whole community of Bitcointalk in which there are more opportunity of gaining players and many bettors on their part.
they are just letting the whole community to prevent from playing on their site and now they totally lose all those hopes because at first they are asking for 72 hours waiting but now it is more than a week yet there is no settlement happening so how can they still claim of not scamming when it is obvious shows what their intention is.

This is right, but there is a problem with self-moderated thread. When newbie search casino - he willn`t read this thread but will go to the cheaters thread. And in that thread he willn`t see negative post - they are deleting. Yes, they will lost community of experienced members, but they will get their money from newbies.

[btc78]

This is right, but there is a problem with self-moderated thread. When newbie search casino - he willn`t read this thread but will go to the cheaters thread. And in that thread he willn`t see negative post - they are deleting. Yes, they will lost community of experienced members, but they will get their money from newbies.

Indeed that is why we need to continue Bumping threads like this one to use as counter for those self moderated threads because the more they bump
their thread is the more opportunity of gaining victims.
and also i still tried to post in those Self Moderated threads but I will check the activity of the OP and when i check He is not Active in a certain time,
then that is the chance to put our warning posts at least will let newly entered accounts to be warned before OP woke up and delete my posts.
i don't care my post being deleted at least i did something small to help potential victims.

[mak013]

This is right, but there is a problem with self-moderated thread. When newbie search casino - he willn`t read this thread but will go to the cheaters thread. And in that thread he willn`t see negative post - they are deleting. Yes, they will lost community of experienced members, but they will get their money from newbies.

Indeed that is why we need to continue Bumping threads like this one to use as counter for those self moderated threads because the more they bump
their thread is the more opportunity of gaining victims.
and also i still tried to post in those Self Moderated threads but I will check the activity of the OP and when i check He is not Active in a certain time,
then that is the chance to put our warning posts at least will let newly entered accounts to be warned before OP woke up and delete my posts.
i don't care my post being deleted at least i did something small to help potential victims.

This is a nice strategy but it takes time to research. I can only applaud you for doing such research and spending your own time. I don`t ready for such kind of work. Just posting warning post and telling about self moderated threads is enough for me. I don`t ready to spend a big part of my own time to stop newbies that want to get easy money, just stopping posts.

[RILWAN]

To me, a new bookie having a self-moderated ANN thread is a sign of incompetence and attempt to scam, because their will most likely delete any complaints against them so to be a self-moderated thread is a bad sign.

[Cryptock]

To me, a new bookie having a self-moderated ANN thread is a sign of incompetence and attempt to scam, because their will most likely delete any complaints against them so to be a self-moderated thread is a bad sign.

Whether a thread is self moderated or not can only be determined when creating it, so this is usually a new project. Unless for some reason the old thread is closed and a new thread (self moderated) is opened, as in this case and therefore 4444sport looks so suspicious.

[Reatim]

To me, a new bookie having a self-moderated ANN thread is a sign of incompetence and attempt to scam, because their will most likely delete any complaints against them so to be a self-moderated thread is a bad sign.

Not only New bookie even the older one but needed to put a Self Moderated instead or open thread is questionable.

If there is nothing to Hide , you can face directly even those troll account .

because you can answer with high pitch and nothing to pressure .

but anyway . lets just prevent from using those site that has this attitude , Period .

[mak013]

To me, a new bookie having a self-moderated ANN thread is a sign of incompetence and attempt to scam, because their will most likely delete any complaints against them so to be a self-moderated thread is a bad sign.

Not only New bookie even the older one but needed to put a Self Moderated instead or open thread is questionable.

If there is nothing to Hide , you can face directly even those troll account .

because you can answer with high pitch and nothing to pressure .

but anyway . lets just prevent from using those site that has this attitude , Period .

That`s about we are talking. There are threads, that made self moderated to defend it from trolls, but it usually created not by newbie account, and we see there negative comments and answers. But when newbie creates self moderated thread for new bookie and deletes all negative comments - there is just one answer why it is so.

[Newlifebtc]

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

It is rall before you can locate a sincere legit site of cryptocurrency betting platform or group because scammer is using cryptocurrency to scam people now for investment, if the betting site is like 20 in number and 10 out of 20 is not pure betting group is not becoming reliable again

[Cryptock]

The obvious problem with this system is that so many cryptocurrency betting sites are just scams. I know it, you know it, we all know it. Perhaps more than 50% are just straight up exit scams, waiting for the opportune time to anonymously jump ship.

It is rall before you can locate a sincere legit site of cryptocurrency betting platform or group because scammer is using cryptocurrency to scam people now for investment, if the betting site is like 20 in number and 10 out of 20 is not pure betting group is not becoming reliable again

Man, I think I am reading your third post today and I don't understand it at all, and I read it several times. Either don't write when you are drunk or change the translator.


Unfortunately, where there is a lot of money, there are also a lot of scammers. I don't think 50% of casinos are in the hands of fraudsters, but if they do, the self moderated thread won't change anything. Real scammers will do their best to build trust at first, so they won't make the mistake of opening slef moderated threads.

[dustboy]

To me, a new bookie having a self-moderated ANN thread is a sign of incompetence and attempt to scam, because their will most likely delete any complaints against them so to be a self-moderated thread is a bad sign.

Starting a self moderated is not the problem, the problem is how the thread creator use it. It is fine to create self moderated thread as long as the creator use it wisely, to delete spams, FUD, or baseless accusation. However, if the creator use it to delete valid complaints, feedback or any post they wish because they do not like it, it is obvious sign of unprofessionalism.

[mak013]

To me, a new bookie having a self-moderated ANN thread is a sign of incompetence and attempt to scam, because their will most likely delete any complaints against them so to be a self-moderated thread is a bad sign.

Starting a self moderated is not the problem, the problem is how the thread creator use it. It is fine to create self moderated thread as long as the creator use it wisely, to delete spams, FUD, or baseless accusation. However, if the creator use it to delete valid complaints, feedback or any post they wish because they do not like it, it is obvious sign of unprofessionalism.

Most time we can detect scam threads, looking at OP work in it. Just a little part of the creator use their threads corrects. Even if the threads isn`t a scam, the most time the creator begins stop the discussion he doesn`t like and delete everything that has another point of view. And even it doesn`t problem - the main problem that newbies don`t do any research and believe scam threads and lost their money.

[Adzivu]

They closed their thread and left the forum?

[decodx]

They closed their thread and left the forum?

It looks like that. They have closed their thread and have shut down the website.
It appears that the scammers' attempt has not met with much success this time. Let's hope it stays that way.

[panjul07]

They closed their thread and left the forum?

Yeah it has gone, seems that the admin is giving up and have no better way to build their reputation or maybe the main purpose of creating the website is indeed to scam few hundred/thousand dollars. 
Although it has gone, but we should be careful as they may come back with different name.
I hope there were not many victims scammed by this new bookie.

[acroman08]

-snip

I wonder if any of the delayed/declined withdrawals that they said they would fix actually got fixed.

anyway, I'm glad they closed. when they created their moderated thread and started deleting any post is not in favor of their website. it was a clear indication that the website should be avoided. at the start, I actually thought that they'd fix the issues when someone complained but instead, they doubled down and made everything worse.

[decodx]

I wonder if any of the delayed/declined withdrawals that they said they would fix actually got fixed.

I doubt it since I haven't seen a single report of someone withdrawing money from their casino since the day they created their first ANN on this forum. It appears they have been aiming for a get-rich-quick scam from the very beginning.

anyway, I'm glad they closed. when they created their moderated thread and started deleting any post is not in favor of their website. it was a clear indication that the website should be avoided. at the start, I actually thought that they'd fix the issues when someone complained but instead, they doubled down and made everything worse.

Indeed. That's exactly what I had in mind.

[Adzivu]

Looks like I might be right about them being the same as Adkinsbet.

Why would they send me PM with bonus offer otherwise, without me writing anything in their thread.