Show off your hardware wallet

[LoyceV]

If the issue for you is about the Ledger being closed source

I'm pretty sure the issue is Ledger's lying about "the seed can't leave the secure element":

the future firmware releases will add the ability to unsubscribe from this service

So they went from "the seed can never leave the secure element" to "don't worry, our software broadcasts your seed to our servers" to "trust me, we won't do that again if you don't want to"? Lol.

[Pmalek]

If the issue for you is about the Ledger being closed source, I believe the Trezor Safe 3 has the same issue? The firmware of the chip is closed source, like the Ledger and the SafePal.

The secure element on the Trezor Safe 3, like all other secure elements, is closed source. So Ledger and Trezor are similar in that regard. One difference is that Ledger's SE manufacturer required the signing of an NDA. The company can't disclose findings and vulnerabilities of the chip. Trezor's Optiga Trust SE doesn't need a signed NDA.
Besides that, other areas of Ledger's ecosystem are closed-source, which isn't the case with Trezor. The firmware on your device for example.   

[Wind_FURY]

If the issue for you is about the Ledger being closed source

I'm pretty sure the issue is Ledger's lying about "the seed can't leave the secure element":

the future firmware releases will add the ability to unsubscribe from this service

So they went from "the seed can never leave the secure element" to "don't worry, our software broadcasts your seed to our servers" to "trust me, we won't do that again if you don't want to"? Lol.

I'm confused. Is that when you have their "Ledger Seed Recovery" service on? OR the seed could still be broadcasted to Ledger's servers even if the service is OFF?

That's a serious issue.

But OK, the closed source firmware could also a real issue because we're also merely trusting the company that the device is secure.

[LoyceV]

I'm pretty sure the issue is Ledger's lying about "the seed can't leave the secure element":

I'm confused. Is that when you have their "Ledger Seed Recovery" service on? OR the seed could still be broadcasted to Ledger's servers even if the service is OFF?

It's impossible for us to know whether or not they still broadcast the seed phrase, but I'm sure as hell not going to trust a company that has lied before. Besides, if a firmware update can gain access to the seed phrases, a hacked firmware can do the same.

That's a serious issue.

That's an understatement

we're also merely trusting the company that the device is secure.

They've shown they can't be trusted, so I'm not trusting them. If I wanted to trust companies, I'd use banks instead of Bitcoin.

[Pmalek]

I'm confused. Is that when you have their "Ledger Seed Recovery" service on? OR the seed could still be broadcasted to Ledger's servers even if the service is OFF?

That's a serious issue.

That's just the thing, we don't know. What we do know is that they have said things that have turned out to be false before. Seed extraction code is embedded in all firmware on their new devices. No one can check how long it's been there because the code is not public. You can only choose to trust what they say is true. And let me remind you that Ledger has been saying that your keys can never leave the secure element. Turns out that they can easily be extracted with a few lines of code.

They have talked about making Ledger Recover or some parts of it open-source. That hasn't happened. Instead, they have released a second backup system, but this time as a physical card.

The entire idea behind Ledger Recover is for law enforcement to have a backdoor to your wallet. Shards of your seed are in the hands of different companies. If law enforcement needs Ledger to freeze your crypto, all they have to do is ask. Since everything is closed-source, there is no way of knowing if this freezing feature is possible against everyone running the latest Ledger firmware or if it's exclusive to those who have signed up and paid for Ledger Recover.

[NeuroticFish]

I'm confused. Is that when you have their "Ledger Seed Recovery" service on? OR the seed could still be broadcasted to Ledger's servers even if the service is OFF?

That's a serious issue.

That's just the thing, we don't know. What we do know is that they have said things that have turned out to be false before

It's not just that. It's also that we cannot know what surprises will "the next" firmware update come with. Maybe something is not enabled or broadcasted... now. But tomorrow?
And why take any risks if you can just get another HW at under 50$ for Black Friday?

[Wind_FURY]

OK, here's my SafePal X1. It arrived a few days ago, and I opened it today.

- Front of the box



- Back of the box



- Inside the box



- The hardware wallet was detached from the box. Is this OK? 👀



- 👍

[Pmalek]

OK, here's my SafePal X1. It arrived a few days ago, and I opened it today.

I will add your SafePal X1 to the collection in OP. You are the first user who has reported that they own this particular model. ajiz138 confirmed having a SafePal S1 earlier.
Looks like a calculator. After you have used it a bit, you can write some feedback in the Safepal hardware wallet review and opinions thread.

- The hardware wallet was detached from the box. Is this OK? 👀

I don't know if you are joking or if that was a serious question.
It probably got detached during shipping and handling by the personnel who sent it from A to B, etc.

I see there is a USB cable. Safepal claims to be airgapped. Is the cable there for firmware installation only or do you need to have the device connection to the PC at all times during use? I have never taken a closer look at Safepal devices.

[Wind_FURY]

OK, here's my SafePal X1. It arrived a few days ago, and I opened it today.

I will add your SafePal X1 to the collection in OP. You are the first user who has reported that they own this particular model. ajiz138 confirmed having a SafePal S1 earlier.
Looks like a calculator. After you have used it a bit, you can write some feedback in the Safepal hardware wallet review and opinions thread.

 👍

- The hardware wallet was detached from the box. Is this OK? 👀

I don't know if you are joking or if that was a serious question.
It probably got detached during shipping and handling by the personnel who sent it from A to B, etc.

I was joking. The box was sealed and packed very well.

I see there is a USB cable. Safepal claims to be airgapped. Is the cable there for firmware installation only or do you need to have the device connection to the PC at all times during use? I have never taken a closer look at Safepal devices.

There's no need to connect to your PC with the USB cable. Everything done through BlueTooth. The USB cable is used merely for charging the device.

[jahead]

hi guys, @Real-Duke pointed me to this thread.

Since the Coldcard hack, I have started thinking about how I store my coins again for the first time since years. In the end, I decided that diversification is the key to make me feel more relaxed and I know 100% security doesnt exist and there is always a small risk....   but anyway, I bought myself a second hardware wallet: Trezor Safe 3 next to my Ledger and I will store there my new coins from now on and leave my ledger stuffed by the side.



We all know, humans are "creatures of habit", and I will be honest: right at the start, I was a bit annoyed that parts of the seal left a sticky "VOID" residue on the Trezor. Seriously, that was annoying right away. Then, plugging in the cable required a bit more force than expected.   For a second, I honestly thought I got a failed unit (what we call a "Montagsgerät" in Germany), but then it worked fine.



Tbh I am really happy with the trezor-software and how it works and as well the hardware-wallet design and feel (haptic?!) are very easy to get used to. I like it.  

[m2017]

Since the Coldcard hack, I have started thinking about how I store my coins again for the first time since years.

Ultimately, this event impacted the cryptoindustry not only negatively but also positively, as the Coldcard hack prompted users to think about the secure storage of their assets. It also (I assume) boosted sales for competitors.

In the end, I decided that diversification is the key to make me feel more relaxed and I know 100% security doesnt exist and there is always a small risk....   but anyway, I bought myself a second hardware wallet: Trezor Safe 3 next to my Ledger and I will store there my new coins from now on and leave my ledger stuffed by the side.

If you are talking about diversification, should keep some of your assets on the ledger device (despite all the negative sentiment toward them, which is entirely justified, these devices remain secure for the time being). I wouldn't get rid of the device, as it could come in handy in unforeseen circumstances (like a failure of your primary device) or for storing smaller amounts.

By the way, don't forget to create a hidden wallet on your new device by adding a passphrase (can create an unlimited number of such wallets, incidentally).

We all know, humans are "creatures of habit", and I will be honest: right at the start, I was a bit annoyed that parts of the seal left a sticky "VOID" residue on the Trezor. Seriously, that was annoying right away. Then, plugging in the cable required a bit more force than expected.   For a second, I honestly thought I got a failed unit (what we call a "Montagsgerät" in Germany), but then it worked fine.

Use a solvent and save yourself the trouble.

Tbh I am really happy with the trezor-software and how it works and as well the hardware-wallet design and feel (haptic?!) are very easy to get used to. I like it.  

The main thing is that it's reliable. I imagine a lot of people liked the Coldcard, too (physically).


It would be funny if someone bought a Coldcard and posted about the device here after buying it, just like you did (/sarcasm off).

[Pmalek]

We all know, humans are "creatures of habit", and I will be honest: right at the start, I was a bit annoyed that parts of the seal left a sticky "VOID" residue on the Trezor. Seriously, that was annoying right away. Then, plugging in the cable required a bit more force than expected.   For a second, I honestly thought I got a failed unit (what we call a "Montagsgerät" in Germany), but then it worked fine.

I will add your name and devices to the table.
I finally got my Trezor Safe 3 a couple of days ago as well. Just like you, I am not a fan of the VOID sticker leaving behind sticky residues on the device. I haven't tested it yet or inserted the USB cable into it.

Here is a live comparison of a Trezor Safe 3 on the left and a Trezor Model One on the right. The orange device on top is a Jade airgapped signer.

[joker_josue]

I finally got my Trezor Safe 3 a couple of days ago as well. Just like you, I am not a fan of the VOID sticker leaving behind sticky residues on the device. I haven't tested it yet or inserted the USB cable into it.

Strangely, this seal should not be so marked.

Have you tried cleaning with alcohol?
Did you buy on the website, or via Amazon?

[LoyceV]

Strangely, this seal should not be so marked.

I had the same annoying experience of sticky residu from the sticker.

[jahead]

[...] If you are talking about diversification, should keep some of your assets on the ledger device (despite all the negative sentiment toward them, which is entirely justified, these devices remain secure for the time being). I wouldn't get rid of the device, as it could come in handy in unforeseen circumstances (like a failure of your primary device) or for storing smaller amounts. [...]

Maybe I said it unclear, but I meant that I will put all my new crypto on the Trezor and leave the Ledger as it is, keeping the crypto that is currently on it.

Strangely, this seal should not be so marked.

I had the same annoying experience of sticky residu from the sticker.

Ok thanks, "that sounds good" and dont get me wrong, I mostly mean for the third confirmation this seems to be normal!  
I was honestly a bit suspicious for a second when I peeled off the seal, even though I bought the Trezor directly from the official website and double/tripple-checked the URL etc. and the whole buying-process.

[Pmalek]

Strangely, this seal should not be so marked.

Have you tried cleaning with alcohol?
Did you buy on the website, or via Amazon?

It's probably a new thing they adopted at some point. When I bought the Trezor Model One several years ago there was no such sticky seal tapped over the device. There was only one on the outside of the box. I will try to clean it with alcohol, vinegar, or something like that.

Did you buy on the website, or via Amazon?

Neither of the two. I got it from a different third-party.

[LoyceV]

I will try to clean it with alcohol, vinegar, or something like that.

I didn't use any liquid, just scratch a bit with your nail or a cloth or something.

[Meuserna]

Strangely, this seal should not be so marked.

I had the same annoying experience of sticky residu from the sticker.

I had the same experience with the Trezor sticker too. I gave up trying to get the residue off.

[LuckyCrypto777]

A few years ago, my friend gave me this Ledger. He was the first of our group to learn about the world of blockchain and Bitcoin. Of course, this gift was part of his "program to get his best friends involved in the world of Bitcoin and blockchain" (not trading or speculation), but rather an invitation to see Bitcoin and blockchain for myself. This piqued my interest, because at that moment, I had something tangible, and related to Bitcoin in my hands!
It certainly motivated me at the time, and I consider it one of the most life-changing gifts of my life.
Of course, we still communicate, and discussing Bitcoin is one of our main topics that keeps us from getting lost in the distance.
I wish everyone had friends like that.

[Pmalek]

A few years ago, my friend gave me this Ledger. He was the first of our group to learn about the world of blockchain and Bitcoin. Of course, this gift was part of his "program to get his best friends involved in the world of Bitcoin and blockchain" (not trading or speculation), but rather an invitation to see Bitcoin and blockchain for myself. This piqued my interest, because at that moment, I had something tangible, and related to Bitcoin in my hands!
It certainly motivated me at the time, and I consider it one of the most life-changing gifts of my life.
Of course, we still communicate, and discussing Bitcoin is one of our main topics that keeps us from getting lost in the distance.
I wish everyone had friends like that.

Thanks for sharing your story and the picture. I will add your name to the table.

Are you still using your Ledger Nano S today? How is the display quality after a few years? Several users have reported that the quality of their displays have deteriorated and at one point some people even experimented with replacing the displays on their own.

On a different note, are you familiar with Ledger's data leaks and the very controversial Ledger Recover (key extraction) feature that's built into all their devices? The Nano S is allegedly the only one that doesn't support Ledger Recover because of memory constraints.