JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[JayJuanGee]

You should never force someone to invest and you should never tell someone about Bitcoin on your own. If a person is interested in Bitcoin and if he is willing to invest, if he comes to you for some advice, then you can give him investment ideas and give him ideas about Bitcoin.

I think it is not bad to give someone an idea about Bitcoin on my own, because if someone benefits from me, there is nothing wrong here. Because many people do not know what Bitcoin is and many have never heard of Bitcoin, so how will they know about Bitcoin? Of course, they have to learn from someone else. Now, teaching someone about Bitcoin is not bad, but forcing someone to invest is wrong. Because if you force someone to invest, they will blame you if they face any kind of loss. Also, Bitcoin is not legal in many countries, so you should be careful about this.

It is not a bad thing to tell someone about Bitcoin, but it is important to first understand whether the person you are telling is interested or not. If someone is interested and asks what Bitcoin is, why it was created? How does it work? Then he can be helped to understand it correctly. And Bitcoin is not a child's food that should be forced into someone's throat. If he wants to know, you can give information, the right idea can be given, but never force or influence someone to invest in it. Now if someone comes to know about Bitcoin and says, Buy it now, if you don't buy it, you are stupid, this price will never come again, then he will bring his own danger by telling others. Because when that person starts investing in the wrong way, if there is a loss, he will blame the person who advised him to invest. And you said that Bitcoin is not approved in many countries, in that case, you have to be more careful about telling someone about Bitcoin. Because when you tell someone about Bitcoin, you are proving that you have some Bitcoin. Even if you don't have Bitcoin, many people will suspect you, which can lead to legal action against you or your personal life. Therefore, you should be very careful before talking about anything related to Bitcoin. However, if you don't have a problem telling someone, you can give them the right information. Along with this, explain the risk, talk about cash-flow management, discretionary income, long-term mindset. You will teach others in such a way that they can make their own decisions and over time, they will learn and try to learn more on their own.

Agree and let me add a little more - investing in Bitcoin is no longer a matter of secrecy. There was a time when investing in Bitcoin was considered illegal and was negatively promoted, but the way the American government and the world are adapting, the current banks are being forced to legalise it, so now there is no more secrecy. If someone wants to tell people about Bitcoin secretly or with a little caution for their own safety or want to inform people about investing here, then that is fine, but it is now unreasonable to not tell anyone because investing in Bitcoin is a crime or illegal.

Now there is a huge change in the world economy, so Bitcoin is playing a huge role in various areas, starting from inflation to being a hedge at the economic level. When Bitcoin is presented to people as an alternative to the conventional fiat financial system against inflation, people gradually start understanding its importance. And with this awareness, the use and acceptance of Bitcoin is increasing among everyone over time. In my opinion, everyone should be encouraged about the advantages and disadvantages of investing here, but not by forcing anyone. However, anyone can tell people about investing in their own style and the benefits of investing.

Privacy is still an issue in bitcoin, including privacy from government.

Sure, in earlier times, the government was wanting to know about your bitcoin so they could try to stop you from using it, and in more recent times, channels are being made to cause bitcoin holdings and/or transactions to be more and more traceable whether they are going through third party apps and systems or the coins are being held by 3rd parties. 

We should not have to fear governments, since they are supposed to be acting in the public interest, yet when individuals or institutions or other governments are deemed as enemies of a government who can get access to information about your transactions and your coins, it is going to be a lot easier for them to block you from using your coins and/or take your coins from you when we are interacting through third parties rather than directly holding our coins and/or directly transacting with wallets that may well have a variety of addresses (UTXOs) contained within that we control.

[Saltysugar99]

Privacy is still an issue in bitcoin, including privacy from government.

Sure, in earlier times, the government was wanting to know about your bitcoin so they could try to stop you from using it, and in more recent times, channels are being made to cause bitcoin holdings and/or transactions to be more and more traceable whether they are going through third party apps and systems or the coins are being held by 3rd parties. 

Right now, what I understand by privacy is to keep your Bitcoin holding transactions as private as possible. If you look at the news for a few years after Bitcoin's inception, you would understand that the government wanted to shut down Bitcoin, but since that failed, they may have started showing interest in Bitcoin and many countries have legalized it. The reason for this may be so that they can trace it more. If I have no idea whether the government is directly involved with application like  exchanger , then through this type of third-party application, the government may get a lot of data on which they can start various policy-making activities. And we accept these types of third-party apps at our own will because I myself have bought Bitcoin from the exchange and transferred it to my wallet. And when we do not comply with our own surveillance, it can be even more dangerous.

We should not have to fear governments, since they are supposed to be acting in the public interest, yet when individuals or institutions or other governments are deemed as enemies of a government who can get access to information about your transactions and your coins, it is going to be a lot easier for them to block you from using your coins and/or take your coins from you when we are interacting through third parties rather than directly holding our coins and/or directly transacting with wallets that may well have a variety of addresses (UTXOs) contained within that we control.

The government cannot fully control Bitcoin, so it considers it their opponent. The main thing here is that they always want to dominate everything. If there is no dominance over something, even if it is beneficial for the people, the government will always work against it. And this is what we see in the case of Bitcoin. What you said about preventing the use of coins and seizing them is actually happening. Now if someone gets a lot of profit from the Bitcoin he invested in in the past and starts living a luxurious life with that money, and if it comes to the attention of the government, then they start questioning him about the source of his income. If they find out that he has done so much with Bitcoin and if Bitcoin is not legal in that country, then they try to seize that Bitcoin and punish him according to the law.   

It is very important to have full control over Bitcoin. If we rely too much on anything third-party, then Bitcoin starts working like a permission based coin. There are many common problems that are seen frequently such as freezing claims, intentionally delaying, and sometimes blocking access on the pretext of verification. Even if it is good to have strong verification, it can still be misused. That is why you should always keep Bitcoin in your wallet. However, since fiat currency is needed for transactions in daily life, we have to use third-party applications reluctantly. If Bitcoin-based transactions continue to increase in the future, then maybe Bitcoin can be directly transacted wallet to wallet, then maybe the security risk will be reduced a lot.

[Gost ms]

Agree and let me add a little more - investing in Bitcoin is no longer a matter of secrecy. There was a time when investing in Bitcoin was considered illegal and was negatively promoted, but the way the American government and the world are adapting, the current banks are being forced to legalise it, so now there is no more secrecy. If someone wants to tell people about Bitcoin secretly or with a little caution for their own safety or want to inform people about investing here, then that is fine, but it is now unreasonable to not tell anyone because investing in Bitcoin is a crime or illegal.

Now there is a huge change in the world economy, so Bitcoin is playing a huge role in various areas, starting from inflation to being a hedge at the economic level. When Bitcoin is presented to people as an alternative to the conventional fiat financial system against inflation, people gradually start understanding its importance. And with this awareness, the use and acceptance of Bitcoin is increasing among everyone over time. In my opinion, everyone should be encouraged about the advantages and disadvantages of investing here, but not by forcing anyone. However, anyone can tell people about investing in their own style and the benefits of investing.

For a common person, Bitcoin investment needs to be kept very secret. For example, suppose a person has been mining Bitcoin from the beginning and till now he has a lot of Bitcoin. He has a lot of Bitcoin if someone knows about it then his life can be greatly damaged. For example, someone can kill him and steal his holdings or if someone can kidnap him and steal his holdings. But yes, if we talk about a big company then it is a completely different matter. But for a common person it is very risky.

Again, many countries Bitcoin is not yet legal. If a person lives in that country then if he tells everyone about Bitcoin investment then maybe that government can take action against him.

everyone should be encouraged about the advantages and disadvantages of investing here, but not by forcing anyone

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss. But yes, if someone comes to you wanting to know about Bitcoin, then you can tell them about Bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

Privacy is still an issue in bitcoin, including privacy from government.

Sure, in earlier times, the government was wanting to know about your bitcoin so they could try to stop you from using it, and in more recent times, channels are being made to cause bitcoin holdings and/or transactions to be more and more traceable whether they are going through third party apps and systems or the coins are being held by 3rd parties. 

Right now, what I understand by privacy is to keep your Bitcoin holding transactions as private as possible. If you look at the news for a few years after Bitcoin's inception, you would understand that the government wanted to shut down Bitcoin, but since that failed, they may have started showing interest in Bitcoin and many countries have legalized it. The reason for this may be so that they can trace it more. If I have no idea whether the government is directly involved with application like  exchanger , then through this type of third-party application, the government may get a lot of data on which they can start various policy-making activities. And we accept these types of third-party apps at our own will because I myself have bought Bitcoin from the exchange and transferred it to my wallet. And when we do not comply with our own surveillance, it can be even more dangerous.

Sure, each of us has to make choices regarding how we keep our coins and then if we are asked to report our holdings whether we do it or not.  Of course, the more people who are using various privacy services and privacy wallets, then the more impractical it becomes to try to trace them all, even though surely the surveillance and data compiling software is becoming more sophisticated, and at the same time, it can sometimes be quite difficult to get governments to allow for financial and/or transaction freedoms if they have abilities to potentially single out folks and/or even accuse folks of being subversive or other illegal conduct that may or may not be true accusations, yet the goal might merely be to control and monitor rather than to actually identify and or stop crime.. even though the stated objectives may well be to proclaim that various public interests are at issue.. Historically, we have already seen these kinds of exaggerations coming out of governments... so on an individual level we still might need to make choices regarding  how we transact and how we hold our keys and how we report when we are asked to report.  They might not be easy choices, and perhaps governments and financial institutions will be imposing burdens on individuals in order to discourage private transactions and private custody rather than going through 3rd party services... which disempowers bitcoin in a lot of ways and also likely reduces bitcoin's power and use cases in a lot of ways.

We should not have to fear governments, since they are supposed to be acting in the public interest, yet when individuals or institutions or other governments are deemed as enemies of a government who can get access to information about your transactions and your coins, it is going to be a lot easier for them to block you from using your coins and/or take your coins from you when we are interacting through third parties rather than directly holding our coins and/or directly transacting with wallets that may well have a variety of addresses (UTXOs) contained within that we control.

The government cannot fully control Bitcoin, so it considers it their opponent. The main thing here is that they always want to dominate everything. If there is no dominance over something, even if it is beneficial for the people, the government will always work against it. And this is what we see in the case of Bitcoin. What you said about preventing the use of coins and seizing them is actually happening.

Frequently governments employ divide and conquer kinds of tactics, and yeah if there is no blow back, they get away with more and more and more, and many times there are injustices in regards to interfering with, blocking, monitoring and even taking value from normal people. .and I am not claiming to know solutions for these inclinations that governments have and frequently they are still achieving their objectives by having third party entities such as financial institutions and other institutions to carry out governmental objectives.. and yeah,
surely governments should be acting in the public interest and carrying out public objectives, even though surely there are differing opinions in regards to the extent to which robbing, monitoring and/or controlling people is actually in the public interest.

Now if someone gets a lot of profit from the Bitcoin he invested in in the past and starts living a luxurious life with that money, and if it comes to the attention of the government, then they start questioning him about the source of his income. If they find out that he has done so much with Bitcoin and if Bitcoin is not legal in that country, then they try to seize that Bitcoin and punish him according to the law.   

Even if a person accumulates a lot of bitcoin over years, there is likely value to have various income sources that are not just related to bitcoin so that it is not so easy to just proclaim that guys had not legitimately acquired their wealth.. and yeah, I am not claiming to know how to balance all of these matters since there is jurisdictional variance and even seeming love hate relationships between governments and bitcoin.. so they might outwardly appear to be o.k with bitcoin, when they are really not as o.k.. with it as they are appearing to be... and perhaps even especially hostile to private transactions, which many guys would think that individuals should have rights to transact and rights to transact privately.. so there are tensions, and surely government officials are people too, so many government officials will also accumulate bitcoin little by little, so their involvement in bitcoin could help to soften them in some ways in terms of fear that they could be targeted too, so there may well develop some space for private transactions being possible and accepted... even though some of us might also consider that we shouldn't be having to ask permission in order to privately transact. .whether that is communication or whether there is value attached to the communication, and surely one of the attributes of bitcoin remains its abilities to attach value to information and communications and to send it in ways that previously were not possible.. and without anyone being able to stop it. .even though maybe they can punish after the fact or even punish others as a way to communicate their intent to punish others in the future (a kind of deterrent, and so yeah, much of that is not fair, but it is our current world status).

It is very important to have full control over Bitcoin. If we rely too much on anything third-party, then Bitcoin starts working like a permission based coin.

There may be value to try to have coins in both statuses.. private and also within approved channels.. even though surely it seems to me that having more people using private channels is better for us and better for bitcoin.. and bitcoin likely would not have any value if all of its transactions could ONLY go through approved channels.

There are many common problems that are seen frequently such as freezing claims, intentionally delaying, and sometimes blocking access on the pretext of verification. Even if it is good to have strong verification, it can still be misused. That is why you should always keep Bitcoin in your wallet. However, since fiat currency is needed for transactions in daily life, we have to use third-party applications reluctantly. If Bitcoin-based transactions continue to increase in the future, then maybe Bitcoin can be directly transacted wallet to wallet, then maybe the security risk will be reduced a lot.

I doubt that it is a good idea to plan future transactions for private wallets, and any of us who give any shits about bitcoin, we should be ongoingly, persistently and regularly transacting with private wallets, perhaps even if we do not need to, we are still in a position to use such private wallets and moving around value within such on a regular basis.  I am surely not claiming it is easy, and it is not even easy to find merchants to except or to find other peers who might transact with us in bitcoin and directly and without using third party services for such transactions.

So, yeah, easier said than done, even though we probably should be talking with people we know about bitcoin and even perhaps transacting in bitcoin from time to time just to stay in practice, even though there is a bit of work keeping up to date and maybe keeping private wallets available in order to transact at various times.

Agree and let me add a little more - investing in Bitcoin is no longer a matter of secrecy. There was a time when investing in Bitcoin was considered illegal and was negatively promoted, but the way the American government and the world are adapting, the current banks are being forced to legalise it, so now there is no more secrecy. If someone wants to tell people about Bitcoin secretly or with a little caution for their own safety or want to inform people about investing here, then that is fine, but it is now unreasonable to not tell anyone because investing in Bitcoin is a crime or illegal.

Now there is a huge change in the world economy, so Bitcoin is playing a huge role in various areas, starting from inflation to being a hedge at the economic level. When Bitcoin is presented to people as an alternative to the conventional fiat financial system against inflation, people gradually start understanding its importance. And with this awareness, the use and acceptance of Bitcoin is increasing among everyone over time. In my opinion, everyone should be encouraged about the advantages and disadvantages of investing here, but not by forcing anyone. However, anyone can tell people about investing in their own style and the benefits of investing.

For a common person, Bitcoin investment needs to be kept very secret. For example, suppose a person has been mining Bitcoin from the beginning and till now he has a lot of Bitcoin. He has a lot of Bitcoin if someone knows about it then his life can be greatly damaged.

How you going to transact with people if you are secret about your bitcoin?  You going to keep bitcoin secret from your friends, family and neighbors?  You think that is how bitcoin should be used and considered?  What if everyone did the same thing? Would bitcoin have any value?

For example, someone can kill him and steal his holdings or if someone can kidnap him and steal his holdings. But yes, if we talk about a big company then it is a completely different matter. But for a common person it is very risky.

I doubt that bitcoin was built for big companies only.  You imagine a world in which ONLY big companies have and use their bitcoin?  Then individuals only transact with their banks?  What good is bitcoin in those circumstances? How does bitcoin get power in those circumstances? In the world that you imagine, ONLY big companies get the benefits of bitcoin?

Again, many countries Bitcoin is not yet legal. If a person lives in that country then if he tells everyone about Bitcoin investment then maybe that government can take action against him.

Do you live in such a country that bitcoin is illegal?  You cannot transact privately with people using bitcoin?

everyone should be encouraged about the advantages and disadvantages of investing here, but not by forcing anyone

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss. But yes, if someone comes to you wanting to know about Bitcoin, then you can tell them about Bitcoin.

Why would you take responsibility for another person's investment choices merely because you told him about bitcoin.  Let's say you go to one of your relatives houses and they are having a party, and there are some people you know and some people you do not know very well except that they are friends with people at the party.  You meet with a guy, and you are talking about various financial matters, and you suggest to him that he should look into bitcoin and maybe buy some. 

Are you going to tell him that you have some bitcoin or keep it a secret from him?  How is he going to trust that you know what you are talking about?  Are you going to tell him that BTC prices are guaranteed to go up and he is going to get rich as fuck if he buys some bitcoin?  I don't see how you become responsible for another person's choices, even if you are older than them and maybe you are a leader in the community like you are speaking to a person who is younger than you.  Aren't you going to tell them that their choice to look into bitcoin or not and their choice to invest into bitcoin or not is their choice and their responsibility?  or are you going to take responsibility over the financial choices of other people?

[Bd officer]

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss.

Will you force them to invest? If not, why would they blame you for their losses? If you are introducing someone to Bitcoin, you should tell them about the risks of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is volatile, so the price can go down at any time. If they invest knowing about the risks, then there is no reason to blame you. We know that the price of Bitcoin does not increase continuously, it is normal for the price of Bitcoin to decrease and increase again. So when telling someone about Bitcoin, you should definitely explain both the positive and negative aspects of Bitcoin.

[SatoPrincess]

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss.

Will you force them to invest? If not, why would they blame you for their losses? If you are introducing someone to Bitcoin, you should tell them about the risks of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is volatile, so the price can go down at any time. If they invest knowing about the risks, then there is no reason to blame you. We know that the price of Bitcoin does not increase continuously, it is normal for the price of Bitcoin to decrease and increase again. So when telling someone about Bitcoin, you should definitely explain both the positive and negative aspects of Bitcoin.

I think JJG responded with the best approach to introducing people to bitcoin. You have to be honest and clear when having this discussions. You can share your personal experience with bitcoin but do not exaggerate or portray bitcoin as a quick way to make money. Note that even if you do everything right, some people will never take accountability for whatever goes wrong in their life so I’d expect a few throw the blame at you because for them it’s easier to blame someone else than themselves.

[Finebone]

some people will never take accountability for whatever goes wrong in their life so I’d expect a few throw the blame at you because for them it’s easier to blame someone else than themselves.

When you plays your role in someone life more than you ought to, that's when blames can be easily pushed to you, because people that will blame you are those that you have been babysitting in the industry, not those that made research and do some findings on their own.

So as Bad officer has already said, if you are interested in bringing anyone into Bitcoin investment space, telling them the risk that it carries is the first things the person needs to be aware of, so that he will know what he is getting into, so that you wouldn't be blame if his investment did not goes as planned.

[Saltysugar99]

How you going to transact with people if you are secret about your bitcoin?  You going to keep bitcoin secret from your friends, family and neighbors?  You think that is how bitcoin should be used and considered?  What if everyone did the same thing? Would bitcoin have any value?

What I think is that when people combine the two issues of protecting Bitcoin's privacy and hiding its existence, this kind of wrong concept is created. As people learn about Bitcoin, its valuation will increase and the more people know about it positively, the stronger its decentralized aspect will be. Because if people's acceptance increases, it will be possible to directly transact privately through Bitcoin. A balance mood should be maintained between personal security and social use. For example, it is not right to tell anyone how many Bitcoins you have and what kind of security setup you are using, but I do not think it is wrong to tell those who are interested or close to you about the correct concept of Bitcoin, how to use it, and its importance in the economy. I think JJG you have tried to say this.

If we think Is it wrong to know about Bitcoin yourself or to tell others? The problem only arises when you do not pay attention to security and lack common sense. Because if Bitcoin is kept secret, then its use will not create value, that is why it should be made more acceptable by giving importance to all security issues. However, Bitcoin cannot be told, like a cold wallet, it will only remain in the wallet for a lifetime, and the person who owns it will never talk about Bitcoin or use it. This kind of concept is seen in very few people. So, the wrong concept of these few people does not have much impact on the Bitcoin Universe, but we should all have the right idea about it. That is why maybe jjg has raised some important questions.

I doubt that bitcoin was built for big companies only.  You imagine a world in which ONLY big companies have and use their bitcoin?  Then individuals only transact with their banks?  What good is bitcoin in those circumstances? How does bitcoin get power in those circumstances? In the world that you imagine, ONLY big companies get the benefits of bitcoin?

There is no chance to see the fear of personal security as a failure of Bitcoin. If we handle gold or money incorrectly, then our own security may be at risk. So, does gold remain with only big companies or if the risk is high for the common man, then all the money will be kept in the bank. Since this does not happen, it does not apply to Bitcoin that Bitcoin will remain with only big companies and they will be able to provide proper security. Today, Bitcoin has become so advanced because of the acceptance of the common people , not because of any big company. Now, as an opportunity, big companies are profiting by holding Bitcoin.

Do you live in such a country that bitcoin is illegal?  You cannot transact privately with people using bitcoin?

If we think about the legality of Bitcoin based on the country. There are many countries that do not have any laws directly against Bitcoin.  it may not  be that the government prefers Bitcoin-based transactions, so if someone uses Bitcoin, they can take action against them. In that case, one thing is clear  if someone transacts Bitcoin personally, then there is little chance of any kind of problem from the government. There are really countries where Bitcoin is completely illegal, I have no idea about it. However, even if it is illegal, it is possible to work with Bitcoin with caution. Because even though the exchanges apps we  do not have  own control over it but they always try to ensure security so that their apps are used more. Therefore, buying and holding Bitcoin through an exchange in an illegal country or selling it when needed is very unlikely to cause problems from the government. 

Why would you take responsibility for another person's investment choices merely because you told him about bitcoin.  Let's say you go to one of your relatives houses and they are having a party, and there are some people you know and some people you do not know very well except that they are friends with people at the party.  You meet with a guy, and you are talking about various financial matters, and you suggest to him that he should look into bitcoin and maybe buy some. 

Are you going to tell him that you have some bitcoin or keep it a secret from him?  How is he going to trust that you know what you are talking about?  Are you going to tell him that BTC prices are guaranteed to go up and he is going to get rich as fuck if he buys some bitcoin?  I don't see how you become responsible for another person's choices, even if you are older than them and maybe you are a leader in the community like you are speaking to a person who is younger than you.  Aren't you going to tell them that their choice to look into bitcoin or not and their choice to invest into bitcoin or not is their choice and their responsibility?  or are you going to take responsibility over the financial choices of other people?

You are right JJG . One misconception that needs to be corrected is that telling someone about Bitcoin does not mean taking responsibility for their investment. Because giving information and making a decision are two different things. If there is an opportunity to give someone the right idea about Bitcoin for some reason, then it should be taken as an educational discussion. Because no one is being forced to do anything here. Many people think that if I tell someone about Bitcoin, they will blame me if they suffer a loss. But the reality is that if someone cannot take responsibility for their own decisions, they will blame someone or something. If we stop the discussion with this thinking , no one will be able to learn anything. If the person I first learned about Bitcoin from had not told me, I would not have had the opportunity to invest at present . However, we have to speak with an understanding of the audience, this is our responsibility. And telling someone about Bitcoin does not mean giving a guarantee. If you want to give someone an idea, you should definitely give correct information about the issues of risk and security.


This thread has been opened to discuss investing ideas, which is already important but has gone to a different topic. I think it is necessary to discuss about  investment in bitcoin . I have got the most important and correct idea about investment from this thread, so I think it is better to talk about the reason why jjg opened this thread. You just have to post and post whatever comes to your mind then it can be a little difficult for those who are new like me who want to understand and learn about investment.  If I made any mistake just pardon me .

[SatoPrincess]

some people will never take accountability for whatever goes wrong in their life so I’d expect a few throw the blame at you because for them it’s easier to blame someone else than themselves.

When you plays your role in someone life more than you ought to, that's when blames can be easily pushed to you, because people that will blame you are those that you have been babysitting in the industry, not those that made research and do some findings on their own.

So as Bad officer has already said, if you are interested in bringing anyone into Bitcoin investment space, telling them the risk that it carries is the first things the person needs to be aware of, so that he will know what he is getting into, so that you wouldn't be blame if his investment did not goes as planned.

We are saying the same thing. You cut out the part of my post where I mentioned telling them about the pros and cons of investing in bitcoin. My point is that doing all this doesn’t make you blame-free. Some people can still blame you even though it’s obvious that you’re not responsible for their financial decisions but if you have done nothing wrong you shouldn’t let them guilt trip you into thinking that you owe them.

[JayJuanGee]

Do you live in such a country that bitcoin is illegal?  You cannot transact privately with people using bitcoin?

If we think about the legality of Bitcoin based on the country. There are many countries that do not have any laws directly against Bitcoin.  it may not  be that the government prefers Bitcoin-based transactions, so if someone uses Bitcoin, they can take action against them. In that case, one thing is clear  if someone transacts Bitcoin personally, then there is little chance of any kind of problem from the government. There are really countries where Bitcoin is completely illegal, I have no idea about it. However, even if it is illegal, it is possible to work with Bitcoin with caution. Because even though the exchanges apps we  do not have  own control over it but they always try to ensure security so that their apps are used more. Therefore, buying and holding Bitcoin through an exchange in an illegal country or selling it when needed is very unlikely to cause problems from the government. 

We do not achieve self-sovereignty or privacy by using exchanges.  Those are not private wallets, even if some persons might chose to buy and/or sell bitcoin through exchanges and some folks also chose to custody their coins through exchanges.. but none of that is self-sovereignty even if convenients - exchanges are surely a centralized location that governments can choke and/or threaten .. and there are not very many exchanges that are decentralized, even though there are some aspirations to achieve such.

If you are thinking about self-sovereignty think about personally holding the private keys to the wallet.  Passwords to websites are not private keys.  Also think about any wallet that you have to be open source software.  There are exchanges and even wallet providers that are not open source, so those wallet could have back doors to see your transactions, to stop them or even to take your funds.

Of course, there are levels of self-sovereignty, such as running your own node.. yet at the same time, I don't necessarily advocate that individuals need to reach the highest levels of self-sovereignty  from the beginning, so maybe guys start out holding coins on exchanges and/or even transacting through exchanges, yet we should not be under any illusion that those are self-sovereignty private wallets... and frequently, I suggest that as the value goes up, such as if it is more than $500, then there should be incentives to learn how to use private wallets and move coins to private wallets.

Sure, we might choose to keep some coins on exchanges, yet the more the bitcoin stash grows and the value of the stash grows through ongoing accumulation, the lower and lower percentage of our stash we should be holding on any exchange... .so if a person is earning $30k per year, and maybe he is investing $100 per week into bitcoin, after 1 year he has bought $5,200 in bitcoin and after 5 years he had bought $25k in bitcoin, so maybe he ONLY would hold around 5% of his value on exchanges by the time he gets to the longer periods of accumulation, even in the earlier years he is still learning, his bitcoin stash is not as large and he also might be getting used to transacting directly with others in bitcoin too... so maybe after years in bitcoin  he has multiple wallets and different kinds of wallets, such as bluewallet or phoenix wallet or electrum and/or maybe he buys a hardware wallet or two, such as Trezor.  Small amounts might be available for potentially transacting (and not using exchanges and/or third-parties unless that might be the ONLY option for certain kinds of transactions)

Why would you take responsibility for another person's investment choices merely because you told him about bitcoin.  Let's say you go to one of your relatives houses and they are having a party, and there are some people you know and some people you do not know very well except that they are friends with people at the party.  You meet with a guy, and you are talking about various financial matters, and you suggest to him that he should look into bitcoin and maybe buy some. 

Are you going to tell him that you have some bitcoin or keep it a secret from him?  How is he going to trust that you know what you are talking about?  Are you going to tell him that BTC prices are guaranteed to go up and he is going to get rich as fuck if he buys some bitcoin?  I don't see how you become responsible for another person's choices, even if you are older than them and maybe you are a leader in the community like you are speaking to a person who is younger than you.  Aren't you going to tell them that their choice to look into bitcoin or not and their choice to invest into bitcoin or not is their choice and their responsibility?  or are you going to take responsibility over the financial choices of other people?

You are right JJG . One misconception that needs to be corrected is that telling someone about Bitcoin does not mean taking responsibility for their investment. Because giving information and making a decision are two different things. If there is an opportunity to give someone the right idea about Bitcoin for some reason, then it should be taken as an educational discussion.

Sure there might be situations in which the bitcoiner is educating the non-bitcoiner, yet I am presuming that we are mostly speaking with adults, and even if they might be younger persons without very much experience, I am not going to presume a teacher/student relationship which might cause me some responsibility.

Even if I might be more knowledgable about bitcoin and/or cashflow management, I am still going to take an approach that the person needs to figure out the matters, even if I might provide some pointers.

Let's say that I specifically schedule a time to meet with a person and to show them some things about bitcoin.  I am still not going to take responsibility, even if we specifically scheduled a meeting so that I could show them some things about bitcoin.

Because no one is being forced to do anything here. Many people think that if I tell someone about Bitcoin, they will blame me if they suffer a loss. But the reality is that if someone cannot take responsibility for their own decisions, they will blame someone or something. If we stop the discussion with this thinking , no one will be able to learn anything.

You may be correct that we might be in the middle of the conversation, and I am ongoingly noticing that the person is trying to suggest that I am advising them or that I am recommending bitcoin, and sure, I can say that I am recommending, but it does not mean that I am responsible for their decision to invest or not to invest into bitcoin, and they specifically have to figure out how much they are going to invest or how they are going to go about it, and sure if they are disclosing aspects of their income  and/or expenses, then maybe I help them to figure out discretionary income and help them to figure out how much they might choose to put into bitcoin, savings and/or their regular discretionary consumption, since there are three ways that discretionary income can be used once it is figured out that discretionary income is available. Ultimately they have to figure out their level of aggressiveness and how much they will invest and how long they will do it.. I might say that it appears that they have an income of around $30k per year, and could well be that they could invest $100 per week into bitcoin based on what I can see about their circumstances. .and maybe in the beginning they have to buy bitcoin and to build up their back up funds at the same time, and sure the more details they are telling me, then the more I might be able to provide some details, yet they still have to figure out their ongoing aggressiveness and how they are going to deal with fluctuations in their income and/or expenses... and maybe they would be better to start out with $30 per week invested into bitcoin rather than $100 per week. and then are they going to be able to continue to invest 4-10 years or more?  I surely would not be available to weigh all of these matters.

If the person I first learned about Bitcoin from had not told me, I would not have had the opportunity to invest at present . However, we have to speak with an understanding of the audience, this is our responsibility. And telling someone about Bitcoin does not mean giving a guarantee. If you want to give someone an idea, you should definitely give correct information about the issues of risk and security.

There could be some folks who we might be willing to help them on a more granular level, and so sometimes it can be tough, especially with a close family member and there might be some hierarchy in the relationship, which might cause more obligations as compared with a friend, a distance friend, a co-worker, or somewhat we met casually or maybe someone who was referred to us from a person in one of the other categories.
 

This thread has been opened to discuss investing ideas, which is already important but has gone to a different topic. I think it is necessary to discuss about  investment in bitcoin . I have got the most important and correct idea about investment from this thread, so I think it is better to talk about the reason why jjg opened this thread. You just have to post and post whatever comes to your mind then it can be a little difficult for those who are new like me who want to understand and learn about investment.  If I made any mistake just pardon me .

I did choose to self-moderate this thread so that I could potentially remove posts that are not mostly relating to various bitcoin investment and even cashflow management ideas that I propose and how I outline them.  The thread seems to end up touching on quite a bit as long as the posts largely are attempting to relate to the overall ideas of the thread.. and yeah, if someone might seem to be purposefully trolling or seeming to try to derail the thread, then that might inspire me to delete those kinds of posts.

[CageMabok]

...

Will you force them to invest? If not, why would they blame you for their losses? If you are introducing someone to Bitcoin, you should tell them about the risks of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is volatile, so the price can go down at any time. If they invest knowing about the risks, then there is no reason to blame you. We know that the price of Bitcoin does not increase continuously, it is normal for the price of Bitcoin to decrease and increase again. So when telling someone about Bitcoin, you should definitely explain both the positive and negative aspects of Bitcoin.

Explaining the risks and positive aspects of Bitcoin isn't actually that difficult, as everything can be demonstrated through a price chart, as the price history is always visible to everyone, including those new to Bitcoin. So, besides protecting those teaching Bitcoin from blame when the price drops, there are also other positive aspects, such as the entry point for most people to buy, including investors who prefer to buy at a price that has already dropped, even though they often buy at a price that hasn't dropped previously.

This means that in addition to explaining the risks, someone teaching should also provide some tips on how to survive a Bitcoin price drop. They should also explain how to capitalize on such conditions using various methods, as investors naturally tend to buy more and are less likely to think about selling in the near future, even if their portfolio balance starts to show a negative position due to the market price drop. Therefore, there's no reason for others to blame the person teaching them. Blaming a teacher who offers free lessons means that person isn't worthy of learning. If they want to learn, they should find a teacher who doesn't teach them anything for free.

[Pjcr7]

For a common person, Bitcoin investment needs to be kept very secret. For example, suppose a person has been mining Bitcoin from the beginning and till now he has a lot of Bitcoin. He has a lot of Bitcoin if someone knows about it then his life can be greatly damaged. For example, someone can kill him and steal his holdings or if someone can kidnap him and steal his holdings. But yes, if we talk about a big company then it is a completely different matter. But for a common person it is very risky.

Again, many countries Bitcoin is not yet legal. If a person lives in that country then if he tells everyone about Bitcoin investment then maybe that government can take action against him.

everyone should be encouraged about the advantages and disadvantages of investing here, but not by forcing anyone

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss. But yes, if someone comes to you wanting to know about Bitcoin, then you can tell them about Bitcoin.

I doubt if you yourself were in the position of mining bitcoin from the get go then you're still discreet about it. Of course wealth doesn't hide itself.
Ok let's assume a person is killed just like you said because of his assets, how then does the killer get hold of this same asset that he killed for? Or did the person start sharing his passphrase or his holdings login to the killer? Because that's the only way the killer can get away with murder and the holdings along side it.

[Proty]

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss.

Will you force them to invest? If not, why would they blame you for their losses? If you are introducing someone to Bitcoin, you should tell them about the risks of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is volatile, so the price can go down at any time. If they invest knowing about the risks, then there is no reason to blame you. We know that the price of Bitcoin does not increase continuously, it is normal for the price of Bitcoin to decrease and increase again. So when telling someone about Bitcoin, you should definitely explain both the positive and negative aspects of Bitcoin.

yes you are right about this, we should always make people to be aware of the risk that comes with investing in bitcoin and not just to sweet talk then into buying. If they happen to buy without knowing the risk involved if anything goes wrong they will hold the person that introduced them into accountable for there loss. If people are full aware of what they are going into if things didn't go as plan they won't blame any body for that but if they are not aware that is when they will throw the blame on person that introduced them to bitcoin.

[CryptoPanda]

I doubt if you yourself were in the position of mining bitcoin from the get go then you're still discreet about it. Of course wealth doesn't hide itself.
Ok let's assume a person is killed just like you said because of his assets, how then does the killer get hold of this same asset that he killed for? Or did the person start sharing his passphrase or his holdings login to the killer? Because that's the only way the killer can get away with murder and the holdings along side it.

I invested in bitcoin in 2020 during the Covid market crash, and I have made a good amount of money from my investments. Some would consider me to be very rich in my country but I don’t go around flaunting my assets. You say wealth doesn’t hide itself, the truth is wealth doesn’t show off. It’s only poor people who believe they have to wear brands to feel better about themselves.

For your last question, yes, you can be tortured to release your seed phrase or unlock your hardware wallets. The thread below should give you a sense of the risks of being public about your hodlings.

Physical Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency Attacks that Have Been Reported Worldwide

[Stormisover]

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss.

Will you force them to invest? If not, why would they blame you for their losses? If you are introducing someone to Bitcoin, you should tell them about the risks of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is volatile, so the price can go down at any time. If they invest knowing about the risks, then there is no reason to blame you. We know that the price of Bitcoin does not increase continuously, it is normal for the price of Bitcoin to decrease and increase again. So when telling someone about Bitcoin, you should definitely explain both the positive and negative aspects of Bitcoin.

yes you are right about this, we should always make people to be aware of the risk that comes with investing in bitcoin and not just to sweet talk then into buying. If they happen to buy without knowing the risk involved if anything goes wrong they will hold the person that introduced them into accountable for there loss. If people are full aware of what they are going into if things didn't go as plan they won't blame any body for that but if they are not aware that is when they will throw the blame on person that introduced them to bitcoin.

That is one mistake some people do make every investment or business is not just one sided that is it has both it's advantages and disadvantages, the disadvantages has a lot to do with the potential risk which the person who be aware of, normally it should be a personal decision to invest in Bitcoin where introducing anyone in to it should come with some kind presentation that will not make the person thinks that it is all about the advantages without knowing what could possibly be possible potential risk, no one will be happy if they are being in blame in the the situation of things not going as planned, so it is really good that we become mindful of our presentation even while Bitcoin is a good coin to put our value which we can advise or encourage anyone to participate in investing.

[SuperBitMan]

If you keep telling everyone about Bitcoin and if he invests and after that if the Bitcoin market falls then he can blame you for his loss.

Will you force them to invest? If not, why would they blame you for their losses? If you are introducing someone to Bitcoin, you should tell them about the risks of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin is volatile, so the price can go down at any time. If they invest knowing about the risks, then there is no reason to blame you. We know that the price of Bitcoin does not increase continuously, it is normal for the price of Bitcoin to decrease and increase again. So when telling someone about Bitcoin, you should definitely explain both the positive and negative aspects of Bitcoin.

yes you are right about this, we should always make people to be aware of the risk that comes with investing in bitcoin and not just to sweet talk then into buying. If they happen to buy without knowing the risk involved if anything goes wrong they will hold the person that introduced them into accountable for there loss. If people are full aware of what they are going into if things didn't go as plan they won't blame any body for that but if they are not aware that is when they will throw the blame on person that introduced them to bitcoin.

Yes you are right if you are introducing someone into bitcoin investment you need to tell them the advantage and also the disadvantage of Bitcoin investment, bitcoin does not have only advantage it also has its own disadvantage and you should tell someone you are introducing into it the disadvantage of it so he or she won't blame you when he starts getting those disadvantage, for example some set of people don't tell the person they are introducing into Bitcoin that bitcoin investment involves patient and you have to wait for a very long time to gain profit from it if you are an investor, and those who are also introducing people into bitcoin for trading purpose usually don't tell them that they can also lose.
Learn to tell anyone you are introducing into Bitcoin the advantage and disadvantage of Bitcoin investment or bitcoin trading.