JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[ZeroVinsonN]

I think one of the  major thing that determines which Bitcoin accumulation strategy someone uses is their finances, not just their knowledge. Because someone with a large discretionary income available can use lump sum. While someone with a steady income but little funds may prefer DCA. And someone with extra cash on the side may  decide to buy dips when opportunities come.

Though  knowing how the strategies work is important, but your financial situation is what usually decides which strategy is best for you. That's why there is nothing wrong with using one strategy or combining different ones if it matches your income and long term goals.

I don’t think that is necessarily the case. And i’m assuming that you don’t really know the definition of lump sum and DCA and that is why you’re exaggerating the connection between a person’s financial situation and specific strategies that they may use in their bitcoin investment. A person with a large discretionary income can still do DCA and even a person with little funds too can still save up and occasionally make lump sum purchases to put into their stash. So it is not always really the amount of money that a person has that will determine their strategy, but it is how that person chooses to deploy that money over their investment that determines the strategy.

The amount of money each investor has to invest does not determine his strategy. However, we cannot completely deny that financial conditions have some influence. The one who has a larger amount of extra money has a relatively greater opportunity. If an investor chooses lump sum along with regular investments, it depends on his goals, risk management and his personal preferences.

Different people have different amounts the can consider as lump summing, if it's lump summing to you it might not be for others so a person can be DCAing with an amount of money that can be considered lump sum by others, it's completely dependent on the investor and how much discretionary income they have, the strategy to use is a choice that doesn't necessarily depend on how much they have, it's more about what works and for most people what works is the DCA.

The financial strength of every investor can never be the same so also their knowledge and understanding can never be the same, that is why we see some people make mistakes in their investment and some even sell because of lack of knowledge and understanding. The amount Mr A is using to accumulate a week can be Mr B 1 month accumulation but the mistake someone will make will be to challenge or want to competite when they don't have the capacity, be comfortable with what you can afford for the main time.

A person's discretionary income should be what determines how much the invest, people who allow how much others are investing to be what determines how much they themselves invest are not going to be able to keep investing for very long, chances are that they are going to sell within a very short time from when they started investing because they are most likely not going to be investing from their discretionary income alone and once that's the case they will not be able to pay for their essentials which will lead to them selling their bitcoin investment order their salvage their situation and more often than not they end up selling at a loss.

So many folks get too focused on trying to purchase at the right dip that they end up waiting on the sidelines for too long . The reality is that nobody can consistently predict Bitcoin exact price movements, investors who have been in the market for so many years usually understand that building a position gradually is often more effective than trying to time every drop that's why people explanation is essentially helpful for new investors who are still learning how to approach Bitcoin investment with a realistic mind set

It's best to just invest whenever you can than to be waiting for a DIP to happen first before you invest, to those who are waiting for a dip, we are already experiencing a DIP, as bad as you excuse for not yet starting your investment is, it is not valid right now because this is already a DIP, if you are waiting for it to dip even more than this they you are not really planning on investing and is just using the the price at the time to delay the whole thing, best to just tell yourself the truth.

[Charcol]

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?

I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

I second this. Many people always assume that having a large discretionary budget now automatically means that they should start taking more big risks and they now forget that being able to recover from any setback in the market is what matters more than the amount that they have available to invest. Decisions on how aggressively a person can invest in bitcoin should not be determined by the size of their discretionary income but it should be based on how strong the system that is supporting that their income is which is the the availability of a strong emergency fund and good cash flow management like you said.

However aggressive buying should always come after we have enough availability of emergency funds.
The safest way we can approach aggressive buying is when we make availability of our emergency funds 3x to 6x of our main income then aggressive buying can fall in with not much risk. But if we intend to go aggressively and emergency funds ain’t enough then it a very dangerous and risky situation.

It is not right to calculate the emergency fund with the main income, but it may be more reasonable to measure it with monthly essential expenses. Because even if the income is high, the expenses may be low. Again, even if someone's income is low, the family responsibility may be high.

For example, if someone's monthly income is $2000 but his expenses are only $700, then if he calculates the emergency fund for 3 months using income, he will have to set aside $6000. But in reality, he will only need $2100 to cover his 3 months' necessary expenses. So if he calculates here using income, he will unnecessarily keep a lot of money in the name of emergency fund. Which can slow down his bitcoin accumulation.

Similarly, if someone's monthly income is $800 and his family responsibilities, rent, food, medical expenses or other expenses combined are $750, then an emergency fund may be more important for him. Because even if his income is low, his monthly obligations are not low. If he makes decisions only based on income, he will not be able to understand his actual expenses and responsibilities properly.

 Therefore, it may be more reasonable to measure the emergency fund as 3-6 months of essential expenses rather than measuring it as 3x-6x of basic income.

[Nightwatchmare]

I agree with you, many investors always mistakes being aggressive, to being financially strong. To buy every dip may sound smart, but if the money you are using to invest is not money that you can comfortably leave  in long term, then you are putting yourself under unnecessary risk. The important thing is not how much you buy during a dip, but if you can survive if the market falls. Nobody knows tomorrow. What may look like a small dip today, can turn into life changing wealth in the future. I believe that emergency fund and regular DCA should come first. Buying during the dip is good, but only when it won’t affect your financial stability. So the goal isn’t just to accumulate more assets, but to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you would force your self to sell at a wrong time.

Calling "buying the dip" good still pushes that market timing mindset. It's basically guessing when to throw extra money in, and most people get it wrong. They buy too early, go too hard, then freak out and sell when it drops more. Nobody knows tomorrow like you said
Trading and chasing dips isn't investing, it's just speculating.
It’s better to just stick with steady DCA and ignore the dips completely

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad the method is good and it can at some point aid an investor to fronload his/ her Bitcoin investment but how investors decide to make use of the method determines if it is bad or good. However if you are steadily accumulating Bitcoin with DCA method and the price of Bitcoin dropped and you have available discretionary income to seize the opportunity the market has presented to you, do not hesitate to buy as much as Bitcoin you could buy at a low price because at the time buying the dip is a good method.

[Finebone]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad

I think you are wrong her mate, it's not all bitcoin accumulating strategy that are good. Relying only on buying the dip is not a good strategy because you will be compel to wait for it, and in most cases you are going to miss out on so many buying opportunities because the dip you expected may not come.

 And it's not just about newbies, but about veterans too. If you are going to be buying the dip, then it's wise to be accumulating consistently through the dca accumulating strategy, then when the dip comes, you may decide to buy aggressive with your reserve funds, but waiting for it alone without buying and adding to your stash is wrong.

[Jamestown70]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad

I think you are wrong her mate, it's not all bitcoin accumulating strategy that are good. Relying only on buying the dip is not a good strategy because you will be compel to wait for it, and in most cases you are going to miss out on so many buying opportunities because the dip you expected may not come.

 And it's not just about newbies, but about veterans too. If you are going to be buying the dip, then it's wise to be accumulating consistently through the dca accumulating strategy, then when the dip comes, you may decide to buy aggressive with your reserve funds, but waiting for it alone without buying and adding to your stash is wrong.

You both are not wrong, what @Nightwatchmare is saying in essence is that, as long as buying the dip is not recommended or should be seen as a priority to newbie it’s not bad, for E.g If Mr. A has gotten to his over accumulation stage and decides he doesn’t want to start liquidating his fund thereby accumulating only when Bitcoin price is down is not a bad strategy to work with, but in the case of Mr. B who is a newbie, it’s not a good idea to accumulate Bitcoin only when there’s a dip if not they’ll definitely miss out on market opportunities leading to a longer time frame before they get to their over accumulation stage instead newbies should prioritize the DCA method and be consistent if they want to get a good result.

[icebar]

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?

I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

I second this. Many people always assume that having a large discretionary budget now automatically means that they should start taking more big risks and they now forget that being able to recover from any setback in the market is what matters more than the amount that they have available to invest. Decisions on how aggressively a person can invest in bitcoin should not be determined by the size of their discretionary income but it should be based on how strong the system that is supporting that their income is which is the the availability of a strong emergency fund and good cash flow management like you said.

Don’t know why a new investor will think of buying aggressively as soon as they embark on the journey, this shows such that the investor has the mindset of making quicker profits which is why they are thinking about aggressive buying. And profits isn’t what we should put into consideration or prioritize.

If someone starts buying more just by looking at DIP without understanding their own necessary expenses, emergency funds and cash flow, then it can be risky for them. But it is not right to assume that if they want to do aggressive buying as a new investor, it will directly become a quick profit mindset. It may be that even though they are new, their financial situation is strong. They may not have any debt, their monthly expenses may be low, they may have emergency funds, or their cash flow may be such that they can use a large amount of discretionary income to save Bitcoin, excluding their own expenses. In such a situation, their aggressive buying is not necessarily wrong. We will actually say it is wrong only when they do not understand their limits, do not have emergency funds, and start buying Bitcoin with the money for their necessary expenses.

One thing we have to remember is that Aggressive buying and over-aggressive buying are not the same thing. Sustainable aggressive buying can be if it comes from their discretionary income and they can continue that strategy in the long term.

[obuoma]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad the method is good and it can at some point aid an investor to fronload his/ her Bitcoin investment but how investors decide to make use of the method determines if it is bad or good. However if you are steadily accumulating Bitcoin with DCA method and the price of Bitcoin dropped and you have available discretionary income to seize the opportunity the market has presented to you, do not hesitate to buy as much as Bitcoin you could buy at a low price because at the time buying the dip is a good method.

I don't agree with you completely in this post because there are methods that are so slippery that if deployed by a newbie may likely end in mistakes. New investors usually have the tendency of yielding to hypes and quest for quick profits and if they have inculcated the idea of buy low to sell high, they will end up waiting for the dip and selling when they see significant profits if they are even lucky to get a good entry. Bitcoin investment is not supposed to be based on luck or end badly if the right method is used from the beginning, it saves the investor a lot of stress and chance of mistakes.

New investors that started their journey with DCA method will definitely do better than those waiting to buy the dips. With this understanding, we cannot say that all methods are suitable for everyone because some requires experience to be able to use them efficiently.

[Sim_card]

The safest way we can approach aggressive buying is when we make availability of our emergency funds 3x to 6x of our main income then aggressive buying can fall in with not much risk

Of course, it's good to buy aggressively when your backup funds are already built up. However, you don't need to have up to six months of your monthly expenses first before you can buy aggressively at least, three months of your monthly expenses is enough for any investor be it a low income earner or high income earner to buy aggressively and increase his bitcoin portfolio in a fast pace.

The reason is so that, you waste too much time putting too much cash in your emergency funds and slow down your bitcoin investment pace because it can take one year or more for a low income earner to build an emergency funds of three months of his income.

For example, if someone's monthly income is $2000 but his expenses are only $700, then if he calculates the emergency fund for 3 months using income, he will have to set aside $6000. But in reality, he will only need $2100 to cover his 3 months' necessary expenses. So if he calculates here using income, he will unnecessarily keep a lot of money in the name of emergency fund. Which can slow down his bitcoin accumulation.

Similarly, if someone's monthly income is $800 and his family responsibilities, rent, food, medical expenses or other expenses combined are $750, then an emergency fund may be more important for him. Because even if his income is low, his monthly obligations are not low. If he makes decisions only based on income, he will not be able to understand his actual expenses and responsibilities properly.

Even though, the first guy discretionary income is $1300, he still needs to set up an emergency funds because he has to share his discretionary income into three equal part which is 33.3% each and use the first part for his regular weekly DCA. He will use the second part to start building his emergency funds and the last part for his discretionary consumption because you need to balance your bitcoin investment and your emergency funds in the beginning.

The big difference between these two guys is that the first guy will definitely, build his emergency funds and other backup funds in a faster pace within a short period of time and has all the flexibility to buy aggressively and front load his bitcoin investment than the second guy with $50 as his discretionary income.

[Agbam]

Snip~

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?

I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

What i meant is when excess capital is generated, in the sense that investors can allocate more funds to the discretionary to buy aggressively when the market goes down like it did recently, note that my instance is related with being aggressive but not overly aggressive so it doesn't ruin the investment.

 However it's true that management of the cash flow is also important in such situation than the size of it, maybe i forgot to include that in my statement, i stand to be corrected Jay so if my explanations makes less sense you should correct it so I'll take note and not say what would mislead anyone here.

Yes, individuals or investors are responsible for how aggressive or whimpy they’ll be. Each person knows and understands his own financial capabilities and we can go on and on about how your emergency funds need to be strong and how many % of discretionary to allocate but we can’t say for sure what everyone will do.

The size of the discretionary funds cannot be a determining factor for measuring aggressiveness or whimpiness. What matters is how much of it you put in.
If my discretionary funds are normally $100 and I usually invest $50–60, then later my discretionary funds increase to $200 and I invest $100, I wouldn’t necessarily call that aggressive. I’m simply maintaining my usual allocation rate. If I were to invest significantly more than my usual % of discretionary income, then I could really describe that as becoming more aggressive.

[SmartCharpa]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad

I think you are wrong her mate, it's not all bitcoin accumulating strategy that are good. Relying only on buying the dip is not a good strategy because you will be compel to wait for it, and in most cases you are going to miss out on so many buying opportunities because the dip you expected may not come.

I don’t think you understand what he meant by that. He’s not saying targeting the dip to buy is a good strategy. He said everyone is free to invest with any strategy they are comfortable with, as long as they are not supporting people to buy only at the dip. Everyone can choose to invest in Bitcoin the way they want, as long as they are not buying for a short period or trying to outsmart the market by buying only at the lower price.

And it's not just about newbies, but about veterans too. If you are going to be buying the dip, then it's wise to be accumulating consistently through the dca accumulating strategy, then when the dip comes, you may decide to buy aggressive with your reserve funds, but waiting for it alone without buying and adding to your stash is wrong.

Of course, it’s not about newbies alone. Every person who seems to be targeting the market is not planning to invest in Bitcoin for the long term. Nobody is an expert enough to predict the next move of Bitcoin. Instead of waiting for a guy to predict when to buy, it’s better to continue buying with any amount that you are comfortable with better than waiting for the perfect time forever.

[Rockson1]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad

The strategy are not bad but it depends on the application but the must efficient one remain the DCA method, what are saying is that no one should wait for the dip before they can dive in, anyone can decide to save some amount separate from their discreationary income that is been used to maintain their Bitcoin acumulation through the DCA strategy, these amount can be use to buy the the dip when it comes as long as such person is very active with his steady buying through the DCA method, I don't think there's a problem with that, another thing is that, even though we don't have a separate amount to buy the dip, there is no problem too since didn't give up with our DCA method, as for newbies, they don't have anything to do with buying the dip, the best they can do for themselves is to buy frequently with their discreationary income.

[Ribust]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad the method is good and it can at some point aid an investor to fronload his/ her Bitcoin investment but how investors decide to make use of the method determines if it is bad or good. However if you are steadily accumulating Bitcoin with DCA method and the price of Bitcoin dropped and you have available discretionary income to seize the opportunity the market has presented to you, do not hesitate to buy as much as Bitcoin you could buy at a low price because at the time buying the dip is a good method.

I don't agree with you completely in this post because there are methods that are so slippery that if deployed by a newbie may likely end in mistakes. New investors usually have the tendency of yielding to hypes and quest for quick profits and if they have inculcated the idea of buy low to sell high, they will end up waiting for the dip and selling when they see significant profits if they are even lucky to get a good entry. Bitcoin investment is not supposed to be based on luck or end badly if the right method is used from the beginning, it saves the investor a lot of stress and chance of mistakes.

New investors that started their journey with DCA method will definitely do better than those waiting to buy the dips. With this understanding, we cannot say that all methods are suitable for everyone because some requires experience to be able to use them efficiently.

I am not fully in support of your idea in this post as there exist methods which are so slippery that if they are used by someone new, they will most probably result in mistakes. For one thing, newbies tend to give into hype and desire quick money. moreover, even when they adopt the notion of buying low and selling high, they still will have to wait for dips and will only end up selling after making substantial gains if they ever manage to purchase at the right price. Bitcoin investing should neither involve luck nor turn out poorly if a proper technique is used from the very start. in the end, the investor saves him/herself a lot of hassle.

It is clear that people who began their investing career using DCA will perform better than those who wait for dips. This being the case, not all techniques can be deemed equally effective for every person.

[Umulala-alala]

It's best to just invest whenever you can than to be waiting for a DIP to happen first before you invest, to those who are waiting for a dip, we are already experiencing a DIP, as bad as you excuse for not yet starting your investment is, it is not valid right now because this is already a DIP, if you are waiting for it to dip even more than this they you are not really planning on investing and is just using the the price at the time to delay the whole thing, best to just tell yourself the truth.

This is one thing about waiting for the dip they are not always satisfied by the price they will wanting it to go more dip before they can start buying until the price start increasing and they miss out not even get started with their bitcoin or not buying and end up to be a no coiner, BTC is volatile asset and should be bought persistently and consistently with the dca strategy without waiting any further because the dca covers up every buying opportunity because you are buying at any of price of bitcoin.

[Obulis]

I think one of the  major thing that determines which Bitcoin accumulation strategy someone uses is their finances, not just their knowledge. Because someone with a large discretionary income available can use lump sum. While someone with a steady income but little funds may prefer DCA. And someone with extra cash on the side may  decide to buy dips when opportunities come.

Though  knowing how the strategies work is important, but your financial situation is what usually decides which strategy is best for you. That's why there is nothing wrong with using one strategy or combining different ones if it matches your income and long term goals.

I don’t think that is necessarily the case. And i’m assuming that you don’t really know the definition of lump sum and DCA and that is why you’re exaggerating the connection between a person’s financial situation and specific strategies that they may use in their bitcoin investment. A person with a large discretionary income can still do DCA and even a person with little funds too can still save up and occasionally make lump sum purchases to put into their stash. So it is not always really the amount of money that a person has that will determine their strategy, but it is how that person chooses to deploy that money over their investment that determines the strategy.

The amount of money each investor has to invest does not determine his strategy. However, we cannot completely deny that financial conditions have some influence. The one who has a larger amount of extra money has a relatively greater opportunity. If an investor chooses lump sum along with regular investments, it depends on his goals, risk management and his personal preferences.

Different people have different amounts the can consider as lump summing, if it's lump summing to you it might not be for others so a person can be DCAing with an amount of money that can be considered lump sum by others, it's completely dependent on the investor and how much discretionary income they have, the strategy to use is a choice that doesn't necessarily depend on how much they have, it's more about what works and for most people what works is the DCA.

The financial strength of every investor can never be the same so also their knowledge and understanding can never be the same, that is why we see some people make mistakes in their investment and some even sell because of lack of knowledge and understanding. The amount Mr A is using to accumulate a week can be Mr B 1 month accumulation but the mistake someone will make will be to challenge or want to competite when they don't have the capacity, be comfortable with what you can afford for the main time.

A person's discretionary income should be what determines how much the invest, people who allow how much others are investing to be what determines how much they themselves invest are not going to be able to keep investing for very long, chances are that they are going to sell within a very short time from when they started investing because they are most likely not going to be investing from their discretionary income alone and once that's the case they will not be able to pay for their essentials which will lead to them selling their bitcoin investment order their salvage their situation and more often than not they end up selling at a loss.

That's actually as a result of human behavior difference but then as secret as Bitcoin investment can be, I don't really see any need to worry about knowing how much anybody is investing in Bitcoin to talk of competing with them but even if there's such knowledge I don't see any need bordering about that. The best thing is just to go on with what is possible. Even if it's with someone earning the same amount with you in the same working place, there is for sure different responsibility and different mindset altogether about money management all these differences will after all land each person to different discretionary funds to be used for Bitcoin investment. Some will even be trying unhealthy buying of Bitcoin that is buying outside their discretionary funds which you might not even be aware of so what's there to worry about when some has accumulated more Bitcoin? I guess nothing.

[Furious 7]

So many folks get too focused on trying to purchase at the right dip that they end up waiting on the sidelines for too long . The reality is that nobody can consistently predict Bitcoin exact price movements, investors who have been in the market for so many years usually understand that building a position gradually is often more effective than trying to time every drop that's why people explanation is essentially helpful for new investors who are still learning how to approach Bitcoin investment with a realistic mind set

I was in that moment a few years ago when I started trying to invest in bitcoin but indeed the results became 50/50 because all we did was predict the price of bitcoin and it became a delay for us in buying which ended in regret.

Talking about it now it feels like it would be too stupid with my initial decision so this time I tried to make a direct purchase with DCA without caring about the price but it ended up with a good situation.
I've been in DCA for quite a while now so although I wouldn't forbid them from doing anything with their purchase Buy dip, Lump Sump or DCA but if it is for those beginners who want to try to make a bitcoin purchase then considering DCA from the start is not a bad thing.

[JayJuanGee]

Snip~

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?
I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

What i meant is when excess capital is generated, in the sense that investors can allocate more funds to the discretionary to buy aggressively when the market goes down like it did recently, note that my instance is related with being aggressive but not overly aggressive so it doesn't ruin the investment.

 However it's true that management of the cash flow is also important in such situation than the size of it, maybe i forgot to include that in my statement, i stand to be corrected Jay so if my explanations makes less sense you should correct it so I'll take note and not say what would mislead anyone here.

Your way of talking about the matter is strange, and I already responded to try to frame the matter, yet each of us likely are able to attempt to show what we know when we put the matter in our own words, and I find some of your ways of talking about discretionary funds to be confusing.

We know that discretionary funds come from our various sources of income, and is calculated after we account for our basic expenses, so we do not allocate to discretionary funds, since the funds that are left over after basic expenses are our discretionary funds.

Of course, we can increase our discretionary funds by increasing our income and/or by decreasing our basic expenses.

Some expenses are basic expenses (we might refer to as needs) and other expenses are discretionary expenses (we might refer to as wants).  Once we know our discretionary funds in any period we can choose how aggressive or whimpy we want to be in regards to our bitcoin investing, and that is a matter of choice, yet we also speak about having some allocation of our discretionary funds towards our back up funds and our discretionary consumption.  So it is healthy to have some allocation too each of the categories, even though surely a lot of people who are investing would be reducing their discretionary spending even though they likely need to keep some money available for discretionary spending just to be able to do normal social things and sometimes to pay for things that are optional but will help with social relations.

Since how much we choose to invest is within the parameters of discretionary funds, we are making a choice, and surely I have mentioned several times that guys who have strong back up funds are likely in a stronger position to invest more aggressively, since the back up funds provide a cushion in case they might make errors and even if they might end up investing too aggressively on one or two weeks, if they have a lot of back up funds then the back up funds will provide them financial cushion in case they end up investing too much.

Of course, guys exercise their judgement too regarding how many weeks of their expenses that they might keep in emergency funds, and surely if they have excess amounts in their emergency funds, such as if it is greater than the amount they put into their bitcoin or maybe if it is greater than 3 months of their expenses, then they might treat the excess emergency funds (back up funds) as reserve funds that have more flexibility, and some guys might think that they can stop building their back up funds after they reach 3 months of expenses, which may or may not be necessary, especially if their bitcoin holding continues to grow, yet I frequently lecture guys when they seem to be suggesting that there is a need to keep 3-6 months of emergency funds, since that seems to be quite excess, unless maybe they have already built up their bitcoin investment size to be several years of their expenses. 

As our funds get larger and larger, we have more options in regards to how we hold them, and guys will not necessarily agree about how much cash to keep and the extent that they want the cash to be working, since cash tends to be valued for both its liquidity and also for its lack of volatility in regards to being able to pay for monthly expenses that may well be denominated in a person's local currency.

Snip~

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?
I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

What i meant is when excess capital is generated, in the sense that investors can allocate more funds to the discretionary to buy aggressively when the market goes down like it did recently, note that my instance is related with being aggressive but not overly aggressive so it doesn't ruin the investment.

 However it's true that management of the cash flow is also important in such situation than the size of it, maybe i forgot to include that in my statement, i stand to be corrected Jay so if my explanations makes less sense you should correct it so I'll take note and not say what would mislead anyone here.

Maybe it depends on the habits of each individual too, so when they receive income (gross salary) some of them will divide it directly for the main needs, saving, reserve funds, and emergency funds and then after that with the rest then invested.

Yeah, but that is not how it is done @KeenanEl19.

back up funds do not have a higher status than investing in bitcoin.

What you do is you account for all of your basic expenses, and then what is remaining is your discretionary income, and with your discretionary income you make a choice about how much of that discretionary income you want to use for 1) investing, 2) savings (back up funds) and/or 3) discretionary consumption.

Of course if you are saving up back up funds for a long time, those amounts build up and you may or may not keep them separate or in different locations (and forms), and you can use those back up funds at later dates for basic expenses, invest or discretionary consumption... and if you deplete all your back up funds, then you might ONLY have your investments (such as your bitcoin) remaining to be able to draw upon.

And on the other hand some people who receive income (gross salary) they divide it differently where their income is focused first on their main needs and after that with the rest they divide it according to the amount they determine for savings, emergency funds, reserve funds and invested with a note that this can be different amounts and as you said it could be that the amount to be invested is greater than the amount for others.

Your second example is the only correct way to do it.  Of course, if a person has a lot of discretionary income, then he can end up having more money to work with and he could create systems that are erroneous, but they still work if he has extra discretionary income or maybe he has back up funds to cover his mistakes.

Calling "buying the dip" good still pushes that market timing mindset. It's basically guessing when to throw extra money in, and most people get it wrong. They buy too early, go too hard, then freak out and sell when it drops more. Nobody knows tomorrow like you said
Trading and chasing dips isn't investing, it's just speculating.
t’s better to just stick with steady DCA and ignore the dips completely

It is good to stick to steady DCA because it is a strategy to accumulate Bitcoin, but you don't need to completely ignore the dip. The dip is an opportunity to buy more Bitcoin; it is something you don't need to ignore.

As for Bitcoin investors, there is never a threat to ignore, unlike those who do the opposite of investing, whose target is never to meet the dip. But it is important for investors to see the dip as not just the time to buy Bitcoin. Bitcoin can be bought at any time, but the dip is just an advantage to buy Bitcoin low.

If people want to buying from the dip i think not necessary to used DCA method that because all they can do is wait until the price reach to the bottom and starting to buy in the right moment.
But if we speaking about the bottom i was wondering at what price bitcoin fall to the dep because with the current movement i think it's hard to found where the dip is and good time to buy.
For DCA i have to agree with you that this is the best method to accumulate bitcoin with affordable money that because when people using this method not necessary to used huge money because as long as people have money, they can allocated their budget to buy more bitcoin.
I think the advantages used DCA is if people still consistent they can catch the right moment buy at low price which for some people this is the right time to buy but me personally i don't necessary to wait because i can accumulate my bitcoin anytime depend on my personal budget.

The problem with that approach is that you're assuming people can actually identify the bottom while the market is falling. You cant a know where the bottom is, until after it has already passed. I don't know what price range is your own bottom but waiting for it can cause you to miss lots of good buying opportunities because you are waiting for the perfect entry or price may never come.

Buying the dip with DCA is not a wrong thing.  DCA isn't used for only normal market conditions. It can be used in both bearish and bullish market phase. With DCA u can accumulate at lower prices continuously and also when the market starts recovering.  I don't know if your strategy to buy the dip is using lump sum but that doesn't mean DCA can't be used too. Because it's not every investors that have the capability to do lump sum , alot of them stick with DCA approach whereby they can increase their discretionary income higher if they have the capacity to do that without hurting themselves in the future to buy Bitcoin at a low price.  

If you are using the term "lump sum" to describe when you are waiting for the price to dip, you are not employing lump sum merely because you use a larger amount to buy the dip.  You are buying the dip because you are waiting and timing and hoping to buy the dip, which may or may not end up happening.

Of course, it is repeated over and over that DCA tends to be the preferred strategy for buying bitcoin, especially for newbies and/or any one who might still be ongoingly building their stack size.  As a person's stack size gets larger they might start to include buying the dip strategies, even though dips may not end up happening.

Many times people do not have opportunities to lump sum buy because they might not have too many chances where they have lump sum amounts come available to them, so frequently even if the are buying bitcoin with varied amounts that still might be considered DCA, even though lump sum might be considered an amount of money that is unusual for the person, so then they can consider if they will: 1) buy right away 2) defer by time (DCA) and/or 3) defer by price (buy on dip - dips that might not end up happening).   

One of the advantages of the lump sum is to have options, and of course, if there is a lump sum, it is usually considered to be money that goes beyond the money that is needed for basic expenses, so then it becomes part of discretionary funds, which means that it can be used for 1) investing, 2) savings (back up funds) and/or 3) discretionary consumption.

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?

I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

I second this. Many people always assume that having a large discretionary budget now automatically means that they should start taking more big risks and they now forget that being able to recover from any setback in the market is what matters more than the amount that they have available to invest. Decisions on how aggressively a person can invest in bitcoin should not be determined by the size of their discretionary income but it should be based on how strong the system that is supporting that their income is which is the the availability of a strong emergency fund and good cash flow management like you said.

Don’t know why a new investor will think of buying aggressively as soon as they embark on the journey, this shows such that the investor has the mindset of making quicker profits which is why they are thinking about aggressive buying. And profits isn’t what we should put into consideration or prioritize.
However aggressive buying should always come after we have enough availability of emergency funds.
The safest way we can approach aggressive buying is when we make availability of our emergency funds 3x to 6x of our main income then aggressive buying can fall in with not much risk. But if we intend to go aggressively and emergency funds ain’t enough then it a very dangerous and risky situation.

I agreed with everything you said Big Dirams until it started to appear that you were suggesting that there might be some need to establish back up funds prior to getting started.

I think that you mean that the back up funds needed to be strong prior to investing aggressively, and I am still going to quibble a bit with you since, many of us (including but not limited to yours truly) likely realize that with bitcoin it is important to get started as long as we have discretionary funds, that we need at least some level of back up funds to make sure that we are investing within the scope of our discretionary funds and that we can build our back up funds at the same time that we are building our bitcoin investment.

Accordingly, there are no exact strict lines for when a person might choose to be more aggressive or less aggressive, and each of us need to use our judgement when it comes to figuring out how aggressive that we are ready, willing and able to be, and at the same time, if we screw up we are going to suffer the consequences of screwing up and sometimes, we might not realize for several years that we had screwed up by being either too whimpy or by being too aggressive in the application of our bitcoin investment choices.

I frequently suggest that guys try to invest in bitcoin as aggressively as they can without overdoing it, and they have to figure out what is aggressive and what is overdoing it, since if they screw up and believe that I am saying something that I am not saying, then they are going to be the ones to suffer the consequences for their misunderstanding in regards to what is the difference between aggressive and overaggressive. 

At the same time, for sure, the point that you were making about starting out slow is way better than accidentally overdoing it, and surely anyone who is new to bitcoin, they have to get used to taking money every week from their discretionary funds to both buy bitcoin and to put into their back up funds, and so they likely need to work up to higher level of aggressiveness rather than perhaps being too aggressive from the start and making too many mistakes in the beginning, while they are still learning about various aspects of bitcoin, cashflow management perhaps improving their knowledge of their 9 individual factors.

[Jostern]

Snip~

Maybe you need to provide an example Princess Leah?

I am not sure how discretionary funds might warrant aggressiveness, and surely whimpiness versus aggressiveness is a matter of choice, and the discretionary funds show the range in which a person could choose to invest, since he could choose 0% or 100% or some amount in between, yet the justification for investing more aggressively or not would likely come from strength of back up funds and strength of cashflow management rather than the size of the discretionary funds.

What i meant is when excess capital is generated, in the sense that investors can allocate more funds to the discretionary to buy aggressively when the market goes down like it did recently, note that my instance is related with being aggressive but not overly aggressive so it doesn't ruin the investment.

 However it's true that management of the cash flow is also important in such situation than the size of it, maybe i forgot to include that in my statement, i stand to be corrected Jay so if my explanations makes less sense you should correct it so I'll take note and not say what would mislead anyone here.

Yes, individuals or investors are responsible for how aggressive or whimpy they’ll be. Each person knows and understands his own financial capabilities and we can go on and on about how your emergency funds need to be strong and how many % of discretionary to allocate but we can’t say for sure what everyone will do.

The size of the discretionary funds cannot be a determining factor for measuring aggressiveness or whimpiness. What matters is how much of it you put in.
If my discretionary funds are normally $100 and I usually invest $50–60, then later my discretionary funds increase to $200 and I invest $100, I wouldn’t necessarily call that aggressive. I’m simply maintaining my usual allocation rate. If I were to invest significantly more than my usual % of discretionary income, then I could really describe that as becoming more aggressive.

The both reference that you have given are just the same, either you’re increasing your amount of discretionary income on a regular basis that you’re investing each week, and also there are people who can possibly be investing in bitcoin everyday, they buy bitcoin everyday immediately when they have a discretionary income, so like I have seen your statement, there should be no disagreement between both of the references that I have given now, completely dedicating yourself to the regular and steady buying and increasing of discretionary income that would also be known as being aggressive, massive buying when you’re crazy about buying bitcoin that is all categorized as aggressive buying and stacking bitcoin.

[Sonia_123]

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad

I think you are wrong her mate, it's not all bitcoin accumulating strategy that are good. Relying only on buying the dip is not a good strategy because you will be compel to wait for it, and in most cases you are going to miss out on so many buying opportunities because the dip you expected may not come.

 And it's not just about newbies, but about veterans too. If you are going to be buying the dip, then it's wise to be accumulating consistently through the dca accumulating strategy, then when the dip comes, you may decide to buy aggressive with your reserve funds, but waiting for it alone without buying and adding to your stash is wrong.

You both are not wrong, what @Nightwatchmare is saying in essence is that, as long as buying the dip is not recommended or should be seen as a priority to newbie it’s not bad, for E.g If Mr. A has gotten to his over accumulation stage and decides he doesn’t want to start liquidating his fund thereby accumulating only when Bitcoin price is down is not a bad strategy to work with,

So then at what point of price do you think Mr A would wait and accumulate that will be favourable to accumulate, what if the price does not drop at the expected dip will  now wait forever because you have gotten to your over accumulation stage .

At your over accumulation stage you also still be accumulating with the dca using your discretionary income as long as you don't overdo it that will affect you, remember it will still be beneficial to you adding more fund to your wealth is not a crime, there has being no where that one being over wealthy is a crime, you might not have to accumulate aggressively but just being constantly accumulating at the market is better than waiting for the dip to come before buying is a wrong idea.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Therefore, it may be more reasonable to measure the emergency fund as 3-6 months of essential expenses rather than measuring it as 3x-6x of basic income.

Even though you are correct to focus on expenses rather than income, there still can be times that thinking about income is helpful too.

Also, the standard in this thread is building up to 3 months of expenses for the emergency funds, and your mentioning 3-6 months as the standard is not correct... even though surely once guys reach 3 months of expenses in back up funds, they may well could have started to have had invested at least 3 months of their expense amount into bitcoin, and as their bitcoin investment amount becomes larger and larger (whether bitcoin appreciates in value or not), there may be more and more justification to keep more and more in cash and/or other cash equivalents or even in ways that are like cash but are able to earn dividends/yield.

The other various points that you made in your points about calculating discretionary income rather than income are also quite valid when it comes to figuring out investment amount, how much to put into back ups and how much to allocate for discretionary consumption.

I agree with you, many investors always mistakes being aggressive, to being financially strong. To buy every dip may sound smart, but if the money you are using to invest is not money that you can comfortably leave  in long term, then you are putting yourself under unnecessary risk. The important thing is not how much you buy during a dip, but if you can survive if the market falls. Nobody knows tomorrow. What may look like a small dip today, can turn into life changing wealth in the future. I believe that emergency fund and regular DCA should come first. Buying during the dip is good, but only when it won’t affect your financial stability. So the goal isn’t just to accumulate more assets, but to avoid putting yourself in a situation where you would force your self to sell at a wrong time.

Calling "buying the dip" good still pushes that market timing mindset. It's basically guessing when to throw extra money in, and most people get it wrong. They buy too early, go too hard, then freak out and sell when it drops more. Nobody knows tomorrow like you said
Trading and chasing dips isn't investing, it's just speculating.
It’s better to just stick with steady DCA and ignore the dips completely

All methods known for accumulating Bitcoin are all good. In as much as we do not support newbies to make use of buying the dip method at the beginning of their Bitcoin investments does not mean that the method is totally bad the method is good and it can at some point aid an investor to fronload his/ her Bitcoin investment

Frontloading a bitcoin investment is not necessarily about trying to catch the dip.

Instead the idea of frontloading is to try to put a lot of money into bitcoin towards the beginning of the investment with a purpose of not necessarily needing to invest as much later down the road, and guys do not necessarily need to consider the dip in terms of when and/or how to frontload.

Let's say that a guy had been investing in other assets (not bitcoin) for more than 10 years prior to deciding to invest into bitcoin, and let's say that he had put something like 1.2x of his yearly salary into the other investment and it had grown to 3x of his annual salary.  So maybe when he comes to bitcoin, he might want to reallocate 1/3 of that outside investment into bitcoin, which would be 1 year of his annual salary.  He could choose to buy right away, DCA and/or buy the dip.  Trying to buy the dip may well not be a good idea, even though he could choose to allocate some of that bitcoin authorized money for buying the dip, if he wanted to do so.. but yeah, might not be a great idea if the dip that he expects does not end up coming..   

but how investors decide to make use of the method determines if it is bad or good. However if you are steadily accumulating Bitcoin with DCA method and the price of Bitcoin dropped and you have available discretionary income to seize the opportunity the market has presented to you, do not hesitate to buy as much as Bitcoin you could buy at a low price because at the time buying the dip is a good method.

It is not necessarily a good idea to change your level of aggressiveness based on dips rather than being based on the strength of your cashflow management systems/practices (and strength of your back up funds).

[Grease5000]

This is exactly the mindset I'm kicking against. The moment you start treating dips as buying opportunities, you're still making decisions based on short term price movements. Nobody knows whether today's dip is actually the bottom or just the start of a bigger drop. That's why I prefee to ignore dips and stick to a consistent and fixed DCA plan.
The moment you change your buying habit because of price movements, you're moving away from investing and closer to market timing.

Talking about the highlighted statement in your write up, I think that you are wrong here, the dip will always be an interesting opportunity to accumulate more unit of Bitcoin at a very cheaper rate, so it makes not sense to think that because some investor sees it as an opportunity to buy aggressively and get a huge unit of Bitcoin at a cheaper rate, they are timing the market, no I disagree with such sentiment.
 Buying the dip has never for once be a problem if you are not waiting for it before buying, because as long as it doesn't disrupt your consistent accumulation, it's not a problem, so your ideology about those that sees dip as an opportunity is wrong bro.

I agree that nobody knows where the bottom is, and that's why DCA is a solid strategy. But I don't think buying a dip with extra funds is always market timing. For.me I don't buy dips because I think I have e found the bottom. I buy because the price is lower and I have spare money available.

For me,  I think that finance is what  actually determines the strategy. Because someone with limited funds may stick to DCA only, while someone with extra funds can combine DCA with occasional dip buys. In  the end in both cases, the goal is still the same to accumulate more Bitcoin and hold for the long term.