JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Different patterns]

You are fighting too much with the proper expression, which is "don't invest into bitcoin any more than you can afford to lose."

The expression applies to investing in bitcoin.

The expression also applies to gambling.

Sure bitcoin investing is not gambling, even though that same expression applies to both.

Frequently I suggest to people to not gamble, trade, or fuck around with shitcoins any more than 10% the size of your bitcoin investment amount, and without cheating.

For sure, gamblers/traders and/or shitcoiners are likely going to have tendencies to want to increase and/or go beyond the 10% limitation, so if they are having difficulties resisting getting involved in trading, gambling and/or shitcoins, they likely are also going to have troubles sticking to a 10% limit.  So perhaps if they start their trading/gambling/shitcoining, and they establish up to a 10% budget, then each time they get more income of $100 then maybe they put $90 into bitcoin and $10 into trading/gambling and/or shitcoins, and so they likely have to keep those two budgets separate so that if they end up losing the portion that they are putting into trading/gambling and/or shitcoining, then they are not authorized to draw more from their bitcoin holdings, they have to wait until the next time that they receive pay and they can then be authorized to put $90 into bitcoin and $10 into trading/gambling/shitcoins. 

And, let's say for example, their trading/gambling and/or shitcoining holdings is growing way faster than their bitcoin holdings, so maybe they will be tempted to take from their bitcoin holdings and to put some value into their trading/gambling/shitcoining, and surely it is going to take the trader/gambler/shitcoiner a lot of will power to stick to keeping their budget separate and to continue to limit themselves to new injections into their trading/gambling/shitcoining coming from new money and not taking any value from their bitcoin in order to fund their inferior investments (that happen to be performing better at that particular time).

You’re absolutely right, I don’t know why individuals have to be pondering about that particular phrase, personally I believe that we should only invest what we are going to be comfortable with loosing, the same word is also applicable to gambling just as you have mentioned, because there are people who are involved with trading which is gambling, and there are people who are playing with shitcoins.

For example People who also have the tendency of investing in a short term who are mostly driven by quick profit, also means this individuals are gambling with their investments, when you’re investing outside your discretionary income and means of earnings then that is quite gambling.

I understand what you are saying and agree with you. Only invest what you can afford to lose, a lot of folks misunderstood because it does not really mean you should expecting to lose your money,that only remind the investors not to risk money they will need for daily expenses. Which is actually good, but difference between gambling and investing is how we approach the risk, because once we have long term plan, invest with discretionary income and keep buying consistently by using DCA method that means we are managing the risk instead of chasing quick profit, but once someone invest with money meant for expenses to get rich quickly, that starts to look like gambling. Still bitcoin comes with no guarantee. but using discretionary income and stay patient that gives a stronger position than try to predict the next move.

[Jewan420]

Yes, it is necessary to correct the misunderstanding about financial risk management, the term "afford to lose" is often misinterpreted as a green light to gamble or throw away money. In fact, the true meaning of this sentence is to secure basic needs and the future first before allocating funds for investment in Bitcoin. "Afford to lose" is not about being prepared to lose your money, but about how to keep your life safe. To put it simply, gambling (be prepared to lose money), while investing (be prepared to hold).
It is highly not recommended to invest with money that if you lose it, you won't be able to eat tomorrow. A healthy investment will make your life more peaceful in the next 5 years, not make your life a mess next week or next month.

Many people misinterpret this, when I say "invest with money you can afford to lose", some people start labeling me as a gambler. They even start calling this statement controversial. There is a big difference between money you can afford to lose in investment and money you can lose in gambling. "Money you can afford to lose in gambling" means money you can spend for entertainment purposes, maybe you can win money from here but the chances of that are very low.

But "money you can afford to lose" in investment is money that you can declare unnecessary for your life for a long time, or if this money is lost, your quality of life will not change or you will not be forced to use this money even for a small need. No matter how much money we have, every money is valuable to us. But to be successful in investing, you need to have the ability to hold that money for a long time that is worth losing for a certain period of time or if it is lost, your quality of life will not change.

Another thing is to invest with unnecessary money, or use money that you can afford to lose or leave for a long time. The main reason for panicking in market volatility is lack of knowledge and weak mentality. To improve your mentality, increase the scope of knowledge by acquiring knowledge regularly and practice it regularly.

The bolded part of your statement is always controversial to me as it makes investing in Bitcoin appear like gambling. Bitcoin investing is not gambling neither is it the same as investing in shitcoins that the founders can dump and ran away leaving the investors with bags of worthless coins. Bitcoin is not going to die anything soon, so we should make some distinction between Bitcoin and those other schemes. The only time you lose your money, not even completely, is when you intentionally decide to sell due to impatience, fear or whatever reason. If you hold on to your precious Bitcoins even in terms of decline, your Bitcoin quantity still remain intact and with time the price will always correct and give you profits. Let us not push this idea that people should invest what they can afford to lose because it will make people invest in fear, never trusting Bitcoin and sometimes never investing any significant amount of money. This will not create the future millionaires that Bitcoin has the potential of making.

[Grease5000]

That has been a key, is very important one should always invest what you can afford to lose, is very necessary to remain new investors that every  investment carries risks, even bitcoin, if the advice is unclear or less strict, that can give the newbie’s wrong impression that bitcoin price can only go up. That’s why it good to invest discretionary income, bitcoin has performed very well over long term, but no one can promise future returns. But stay consistent with a DCA strategy that can make the whole thing easier.

I agree with your point about using discretionary income and sticking to DCA. However, I don't think telling newcomers to Invest what they can afford to lose is the right message in a long term Bitcoin discussion. Because that phrase fits speculation more than investing. And as a long term investor, I buy Bitcoin because I see it as a store of value,  I think  the  better advice is to invest only the money that remains after taking care of your responsibilities. That way, you can hold through market cycles and give your investment the time it needs instead of treating Bitcoin like a bet.

[JayJuanGee]

That has been a key, is very important one should always invest what you can afford to lose, is very necessary to remain new investors that every  investment carries risks, even bitcoin, if the advice is unclear or less strict, that can give the newbie’s wrong impression that bitcoin price can only go up. That’s why it good to invest discretionary income, bitcoin has performed very well over long term, but no one can promise future returns. But stay consistent with a DCA strategy that can make the whole thing easier.

I agree with your point about using discretionary income and sticking to DCA. However, I don't think telling newcomers to Invest what they can afford to lose is the right message in a long term Bitcoin discussion. Because that phrase fits speculation more than investing. And as a long term investor, I buy Bitcoin because I see it as a store of value,  I think  the  better advice is to invest only the money that remains after taking care of your responsibilities. That way, you can hold through market cycles and give your investment the time it needs instead of treating Bitcoin like a bet.

Invest into bitcoin with no more than you can afford to lose is the right framework and the right perspective.  The same expression is used in gambling and trading and even shitcoins, yet of course we know that bitcoin investing is superior to trading, gambling and fucking around with shitcoins.

Don't lose your perspective and start to presume that your investment in bitcoin is either guaranteed to be profitable or guaranteed to not lose you money. 

It seems a bit crazy that I have to keep repeating this idea for so many guys who are ongoingly fighting with the expression, which seems quite a bit of a distraction from this thread, including that maybe guys might need to go to another thread if they cannot accept that bitcoin investing is not guaranteed to be profitable and/or to not lose money even in the long term.  We should not have to keep beating around the same idea, over and over and over, and even my own words of ongoingly proclaiming that the correct expression is not to invest any more into bitcoin than you can afford to lose is the correct expression and framework for investing in bitcoin even for guys who may also be striving to figure out and put into practice ways that they are able to invest into bitcoin as aggressively as they can without overdoing it.  Those two ideas are not contradictory, even if we might have to ongoingly try to figure out ways to balance our bitcoin approach to account for both frameworks.

[Futurexxx]

Invest into bitcoin with no more than you can afford to lose is the right framework and the right perspective.  The same expression is used in gambling and trading and even shitcoins, yet of course we know that bitcoin investing is superior to trading, gambling and fucking around with shitcoins.

Don't lose your perspective and start to presume that your investment in bitcoin is either guaranteed to be profitable or guaranteed to not lose you money. 

It seems a bit crazy that I have to keep repeating this idea for so many guys who are ongoingly fighting with the expression, which seems quite a bit of a distraction from this thread, including that maybe guys might need to go to another thread if they cannot accept that bitcoin investing is not guaranteed to be profitable and/or to not lose money even in the long term.  We should not have to keep beating around the same idea, over and over and over, and even my own words of ongoingly proclaiming that the correct expression is not to invest any more into bitcoin than you can afford to lose is the correct expression and framework for investing in bitcoin even for guys who may also be striving to figure out and put into practice ways that they are able to invest into bitcoin as aggressively as they can without overdoing it.  Those two ideas are not contradictory, even if we might have to ongoingly try to figure out ways to balance our bitcoin approach to account for both frameworks.

Your sentiment about this is spot on sir. The problem with most of this guys is that they believe 100% that Bitcoin will skyrocket and make a fortune for them in the future, forgetting that nothing is 100% guaranteed in this life, and Bitcoin is not an exception.

The main reason we have high hopes on Bitcoin is because of it rich history and it huge potential, but their is no where it's written in stone that it's going to rise up to a certain level in the future, so investing with our discretionary income, which is a fund we can afford to lose is the ideal thing to do, so that we will not be too affected financially and emotionally if our investment did not later go as expected, so you are right when you said that their is nothing wrong in using the phrase "invest with what you can afford to lose".

[The Founding Titan]

I personally don’t like this phrase “invest with money that is comfortable to lose”
It tends to project bitcoin investment like we are in it to lose and that’s not a good message to pass across to people especially newbies.

“Invest with money you can afford to leave untouched” is a better way to put it in my opinion🤷‍♂️

I largely agree to what you are saying but then you don’t have to have a problem with the concept of one investing money they can comfortably lose. And I think JJG have been able to clearify the concept of this very  phrase few days ago if you follow the thread closely., and in his word he said the expression is “not to invest with more than you can afford to lose”. He also went further explaining that the concept is only trying to let us know that there’s no guarantee that we are going to be profitable and there’s also no guarantee of not losing it all due to some certain reasons caused by either our actions now that may likely affect our investment in the future (executional reasons), or maybe due to reasons that Many of us may consider unlikely to happen to us but at the end it still happens because life itself can be very unpredictable. So the key is “not to invest with more than you can afford to lose, invest with a discretionary income you won’t be needing anytime soon.”

If you visit the gambling discussion board, such phrase is very popular there you know why? It's cause luck plays a major role in gambling therefore gamblers likely lose more than they can win which is why they have to invest with what they can afford to lose, however it's a different case with Bitcoin investment, success might not be guaranteed but holding longer gives hope.
 Moreover there's a prove for that which is that Bitcoin mostly rewards long term holders, you can check the history to be sure of what am saying and what's used for it is the discretionary fund not something you can comfortably lose which makes it look like you're gambling instead of investing.

These days, some people are taking the term "afford to lose" the wrong way. It's not right to take this term to gambling. No one here is telling you to buy Bitcoin and then be prepared to lose. Rather, the term "afford to lose" is trying to convey that someone should not invest at the expense of their essential expenses, emergency funds, family responsibilities, or cash flow. They should continue to save consistently within what they can afford.

In real sense what an investor can afford to lose, doesn't mean that they will eventually lose the money or that is certain they will lose the money. But rather since they won't be making use of this money for years , it will be best if they invest with an amount they can easily lose without it affecting them negatively. Since the money invested in bitcoin won't be make use of for years, it will best to used money that won't be needed for an urgent purpose or needs.

Your meaning of it isn't wrong but the meaning is actually literal, we invest with money we can afford to lose because there is a chance that we will lose it and we are willing to take that chance, of course it can also work something we can continuously put some where and not take from it for a very long term which is practically what bitcoin investment is about and that's why we use our discretionary income to buy bitcoin, because we can afford to lose and and because we can leave it untouched for years.

[Charcol]

That has been a key, is very important one should always invest what you can afford to lose, is very necessary to remain new investors that every  investment carries risks, even bitcoin, if the advice is unclear or less strict, that can give the newbie’s wrong impression that bitcoin price can only go up. That’s why it good to invest discretionary income, bitcoin has performed very well over long term, but no one can promise future returns. But stay consistent with a DCA strategy that can make the whole thing easier.

I agree with your point about using discretionary income and sticking to DCA. However, I don't think telling newcomers to Invest what they can afford to lose is the right message in a long term Bitcoin discussion. Because that phrase fits speculation more than investing. And as a long term investor, I buy Bitcoin because I see it as a store of value,  I think  the  better advice is to invest only the money that remains after taking care of your responsibilities. That way, you can hold through market cycles and give your investment the time it needs instead of treating Bitcoin like a bet.

Don't forget that while Bitcoin is a strong asset in the long run, there is no guarantee of where it will go in the future. If you invest money that was your essential expenses, emergency fund, medical expenses, rent or family responsibilities, then it is likely that your mental state will be destroyed very soon. You should understand that the phrase "afford to lose" is not against Bitcoin. Rather, it means that someone should not invest without paying attention to their essential expenses, medical expenses, emergencies or other liabilities. "Afford to lose" can be against over investing, panic selling, taking out loans or investing with money for essential expenses. But it actually argues in favor of long-term savers.

[Yablee0]

Invest into bitcoin with no more than you can afford to lose is the right framework and the right perspective.  The same expression is used in gambling and trading and even shitcoins, yet of course we know that bitcoin investing is superior to trading, gambling and fucking around with shitcoins.

Don't lose your perspective and start to presume that your investment in bitcoin is either guaranteed to be profitable or guaranteed to not lose you money.  

It seems a bit crazy that I have to keep repeating this idea for so many guys who are ongoingly fighting with the expression, which seems quite a bit of a distraction from this thread, including that maybe guys might need to go to another thread if they cannot accept that bitcoin investing is not guaranteed to be profitable and/or to not lose money even in the long term.  We should not have to keep beating around the same idea, over and over and over, and even my own words of ongoingly proclaiming that the correct expression is not to invest any more into bitcoin than you can afford to lose is the correct expression and framework for investing in bitcoin even for guys who may also be striving to figure out and put into practice ways that they are able to invest into bitcoin as aggressively as they can without overdoing it.  Those two ideas are not contradictory, even if we might have to ongoingly try to figure out ways to balance our bitcoin approach to account for both frameworks.

Your sentiment about this is spot on sir. The problem with most of this guys is that they believe 100% that Bitcoin will skyrocket and make a fortune for them in the future, forgetting that nothing is 100% guaranteed in this life, and Bitcoin is not an exception.

The main reason we have high hopes on Bitcoin is because of it rich history and it huge potential, but their is no where it's written in stone that it's going to rise up to a certain level in the future, so investing with our discretionary income, which is a fund we can afford to lose is the ideal thing to do, so that we will not be too affected financially and emotionally if our investment did not later go as expected, so you are right when you said that their is nothing wrong in using the phrase "invest with what you can afford to lose".

Understanding this fact as a new investor or even as a old investor that has plans of accumulating more stash, it will help by setting us at peace in our investment journey without fear or any form of emotional distress. Even though I can always count on Bitcoin investment but that doesn't stop me from doing what's right by investing with what I can't afford to lose since nothing is guaranteed.

Furthermore, sometimes people act or  judge situations based on passed experience about Bitcoin over the years but that can't actually speak for what's ahead, life itself is unpredictable how much more what was made by man. So for safety reasons and to avoid feeling insecure about what the future holds in stock is to only investment from our discretionary fund's which is what we can afford to lose to avoid stories.

[Big Dirams]

Don't forget that while Bitcoin is a strong asset in the long run, there is no guarantee of where it will go in the future. If you invest money that was your essential expenses, emergency fund, medical expenses, rent or family responsibilities, then it is likely that your mental state will be destroyed very soon. You should understand that the phrase "afford to lose" is not against Bitcoin. Rather, it means that someone should not invest without paying attention to their essential expenses, medical expenses, emergencies or other liabilities. "Afford to lose" can be against over investing, panic selling, taking out loans or investing with money for essential expenses. But it actually argues in favor of long-term savers.

Bitcoin investment doesn’t guarantee profits or good returns at the long run, so this is the main reason why a investor should invest with their discretionary income and nothing order than our discretionary income to be on a safer path. We should go into bitcoin investment with what we can afford to loss and not what we can’t afford to loss.
 Discretionary income is the proper funds for investing. And if we might have forgotten discretionary income are funds left after clearing up our necessities that is the rent, food, utility bills and some necessary expenses.

[BluebloodCXVI]

Therefore, investing in Bitcoin should be done in such a way that an investor can easily hold it for 4 to 10 years. Investing in Bitcoin with the necessary money or any assets seems risky and unrealistic.

4-10 years is not even a general holding period for every investor even though it is a reasonable time frame for most but still, everybody have different objectives and financial circumstances so it might not be applicable to all investors.

In a instance where a person might be saving for maybe let’s say their retirement 20 years from now, it might be no big deal for someone like this to hold their bitcoin for over a decade compared to someone who is investing to help themselves to fund probably like a home purchase in like 5years time; their time horizon certainly will be shorter. Another person also could decide that they will gradually reduce their bitcoin allocation after they might have reached a specific financial goal regardless of how many years that may have passed.

I think it’s better for an investor to base their investment plans on their goals and personal predicament rather than arbitrary number of years.

[Grease5000]

Therefore, investing in Bitcoin should be done in such a way that an investor can easily hold it for 4 to 10 years. Investing in Bitcoin with the necessary money or any assets seems risky and unrealistic.

4-10 years is not even a general holding period for every investor even though it is a reasonable time frame for most but still, everybody have different objectives and financial circumstances so it might not be applicable to all investors.

In a instance where a person might be saving for maybe let’s say their retirement 20 years from now, it might be no big deal for someone like this to hold their bitcoin for over a decade compared to someone who is investing to help themselves to fund probably like a home purchase in like 5years time; their time horizon certainly will be shorter. Another person also could decide that they will gradually reduce their bitcoin allocation after they might have reached a specific financial goal regardless of how many years that may have passed.

I think it’s better for an investor to base their investment plans on their goals and personal predicament rather than arbitrary number of years.

You are right @bluebloodcxvI  that every investor has different goals, because there is no single holding period that fits everyone. But I also think Bitcoin should not be treated like a short term savings account for planned expenses such as buying a house in a few years.
For me I see bitcoin as a long.term asset or store of value and whether someone hold for  5, 10, or 20 years, the real idea should be to invest only with discretionary income so you don't have to sell because of a planned expense or during . Though at times the timeline may differ, but the long term mindset remain the same.

[Supreme Donvic]

Don't forget that while Bitcoin is a strong asset in the long run, there is no guarantee of where it will go in the future. If you invest money that was your essential expenses, emergency fund, medical expenses, rent or family responsibilities, then it is likely that your mental state will be destroyed very soon. You should understand that the phrase "afford to lose" is not against Bitcoin. Rather, it means that someone should not invest without paying attention to their essential expenses, medical expenses, emergencies or other liabilities. "Afford to lose" can be against over investing, panic selling, taking out loans or investing with money for essential expenses. But it actually argues in favor of long-term savers.

Bitcoin investment doesn’t guarantee profits or good returns at the long run, so this is the main reason why a investor should invest with their discretionary income and nothing order than our discretionary income to be on a safer path. We should go into bitcoin investment with what we can afford to loss and not what we can’t afford to loss.
 Discretionary income is the proper funds for investing. And if we might have forgotten discretionary income are funds left after clearing up our necessities that is the rent, food, utility bills and some necessary expenses.

When you are investing in Bitcoin for a very long-term making or getting profit in the future is not certain or very sure because bitcoin is highly volatile in nature and we don't know what may happen in the future that may cause it to fall in price, we are just investing in Bitcoin because we believe bitcoin can become bigger in price in the future and we can get profit from it but we are not certain or sure about all this, we are just working on belief not certainty.
If you want to invest in Bitcoin the proper income you should be using for it is your discretionary income.

[alankasman]

...

Bitcoin investment doesn’t guarantee profits or good returns at the long run, so this is the main reason why a investor should invest with their discretionary income and nothing order than our discretionary income to be on a safer path. We should go into bitcoin investment with what we can afford to loss and not what we can’t afford to loss.
 Discretionary income is the proper funds for investing. And if we might have forgotten discretionary income are funds left after clearing up our necessities that is the rent, food, utility bills and some necessary expenses.

When you are investing in Bitcoin for a very long-term making or getting profit in the future is not certain or very sure because bitcoin is highly volatile in nature and we don't know what may happen in the future that may cause it to fall in price, we are just investing in Bitcoin because we believe bitcoin can become bigger in price in the future and we can get profit from it but we are not certain or sure about all this, we are just working on belief not certainty.
If you want to invest in Bitcoin the proper income you should be using for it is your discretionary income.

I don't think anyone thinks about this because for them if they did they wouldn't invest in Bitcoin arguing that before starting someone already has something to say that weakens someone's motivation to make a purchase especially if the party's goal is long-term investment.

Personally, if I don't know the truth of what happened I might prefer to keep quiet because sometimes with the presentation we make other people who basically want to make long-term investments they are no longer motivated to do so so that their accumulation of Bitcoin has begun to decrease with the excuse of listening to what we say but this does not apply to those who have been involved in this investment forum for years and they will not care about what many parties say about clarity in making investments and they prefer to continue to make their investments and the problem of whether or not the profits are clear is the part behind what is clear being consistent in doing is the most important part for them at this time.

[Abbatty]

When you are investing in Bitcoin for a very long-term making or getting profit in the future is not certain or very sure because bitcoin is highly volatile in nature and we don't know what may happen in the future that may cause it to fall in price, we are just investing in Bitcoin because we believe bitcoin can become bigger in price in the future and we can get profit from it but we are not certain or sure about all this, we are just working on belief not certainty.
If you want to invest in Bitcoin the proper income you should be using for it is your discretionary income.

This have been discussed in this thread over and over again. Going into bitcoin with the main motive of making profit is really wrong. Bitcoin is a very volatile assent and that simple means profit not guaranteed. So instead of saying we invest in Bitcoin because we believe the price will skyrocket someday, we should rather urge folks to hold for long period of time, with that they can have time to build their portfolio.

When you hold for a long period of time you don’t even tend to get moved by market fluctuation, rather it give you time for you investing to grow. Invest in bitcoin with the sole purpose of future visibility.

[reagansimms]

Don't forget that while Bitcoin is a strong asset in the long run, there is no guarantee of where it will go in the future. If you invest money that was your essential expenses, emergency fund, medical expenses, rent or family responsibilities, then it is likely that your mental state will be destroyed very soon. You should understand that the phrase "afford to lose" is not against Bitcoin. Rather, it means that someone should not invest without paying attention to their essential expenses, medical expenses, emergencies or other liabilities. "Afford to lose" can be against over investing, panic selling, taking out loans or investing with money for essential expenses. But it actually argues in favor of long-term savers.

Bitcoin investment doesn’t guarantee profits or good returns at the long run, so this is the main reason why a investor should invest with their discretionary income and nothing order than our discretionary income to be on a safer path. We should go into bitcoin investment with what we can afford to loss and not what we can’t afford to loss.
 Discretionary income is the proper funds for investing. And if we might have forgotten discretionary income are funds left after clearing up our necessities that is the rent, food, utility bills and some necessary expenses.

The reason why you should use Discretionary income when investing is because Bitcoin is not savings, but a volatile asset. Investors should not violate the main foundation because in the end it is no longer an investment, but more like gambling using money for basic needs. This is the reason why it is highly recommended to invest in what we can afford to lose, not what we cannot afford to lose.
Although Bitcoin does not guarantee good returns in the long term, it has great potential to add hope in the future. In order not to destroy your hopes for the future, you must invest safely, long-term, with cold money. That way, you can still sleep soundly even when the market is in the red.

[Shadiq]

This have been discussed in this thread over and over again. Going into bitcoin with the main motive of making profit is really wrong. Bitcoin is a very volatile assent and that simple means profit not guaranteed. So instead of saying we invest in Bitcoin because we believe the price will skyrocket someday, we should rather urge folks to hold for long period of time, with that they can have time to build their portfolio.

When you hold for a long period of time you don’t even tend to get moved by market fluctuation, rather it give you time for you investing to grow. Invest in bitcoin with the sole purpose of future visibility.

Making a profit is one of the main goals of investing, but the profit goal should not be the only main goal. If making a profit is the main goal, then you may not be able to remain normal or be more likely to panic when you see the fund fall.

View Bitcoin investment as Bitcoin savings, save Bitcoin like the fiat savings that we save in normal life. Do not give too much importance to the dollar amount in Bitcoin savings, but give importance to the amount of Bitcoin and set a specific amount of Bitcoin as a goal. Achieving that goal in Bitcoin investment should be your main goal and then after achieving the goal, you can move forward for profit. This way, you may not be affected by market volatility.

[Joeboy]

~snip~.

Your sentiment about this is spot on sir. The problem with most of this guys is that they believe 100% that Bitcoin will skyrocket and make a fortune for them in the future, forgetting that nothing is 100% guaranteed in this life, and Bitcoin is not an exception.

The main reason we have high hopes on Bitcoin is because of it rich history and it huge potential, but their is no where it's written in stone that it's going to rise up to a certain level in the future, so investing with our discretionary income, which is a fund we can afford to lose is the ideal thing to do, so that we will not be too affected financially and emotionally if our investment did not later go as expected, so you are right when you said that their is nothing wrong in using the phrase "invest with what you can afford to lose".

You seem to be mixing up term... Discretionary income isn't majorly the money you can afford to lose... Most folks could have a certain amount of discretionary income (like $300), but not many folks may be able to use the whole amount of money, due to the fact that they are still yet to build some backup funds and/or emergency funds.. And so they may split the may into three places or more or even less and use some for building their safety net, some for consumption and the rest for maybe as their investment amount... So the money that folks can afford to lose in simple term is the money that one can afford to use immediately/ or leave for say a long term without depending on it for your daily expenses or even any unexpected needs, regardless of how uncertain the results of leaving or using the money may be...

[Silikiem]

If you visit the gambling discussion board, such phrase is very popular there you know why? It's cause luck plays a major role in gambling therefore gamblers likely lose more than they can win which is why they have to invest with what they can afford to lose, however it's a different case with Bitcoin investment, success might not be guaranteed but holding longer gives hope.
 Moreover there's a prove for that which is that Bitcoin mostly rewards long term holders, you can check the history to be sure of what am saying and what's used for it is the discretionary fund not something you can comfortably lose which makes it look like you're gambling instead of investing.

These days, some people are taking the term "afford to lose" the wrong way. It's not right to take this term to gambling. No one here is telling you to buy Bitcoin and then be prepared to lose. Rather, the term "afford to lose" is trying to convey that someone should not invest at the expense of their essential expenses, emergency funds, family responsibilities, or cash flow. They should continue to save consistently within what they can afford.

Yes, it is necessary to correct the misunderstanding about financial risk management, the term "afford to lose" is often misinterpreted as a green light to gamble or throw away money. In fact, the true meaning of this sentence is to secure basic needs and the future first before allocating funds for investment in Bitcoin. "Afford to lose" is not about being prepared to lose your money, but about how to keep your life safe. To put it simply, gambling (be prepared to lose money), while investing (be prepared to hold).
It is highly not recommended to invest with money that if you lose it, you won't be able to eat tomorrow. A healthy investment will make your life more peaceful in the next 5 years, not make your life a mess next week or next month.

I think you have a strong point here and I agree with you to a large extent. The fact that one says we should invest with not more than what we can afford to lose doesn’t mean you’re gambling, It means that you’re just managing your risk tolerance. Everyone knows their level of risk tolerance and at such weather one is gambling, trading or investing the same phrase still applies to bitcoin . And again I keep referencing to JJG’s explanation regarding this matter. He said in his word that “the concept of not to invest with more than we can afford to lose is also applicable to bitcoin too, even though many of us believe that bitcoin is among the best if not the best investment which is even way better than putting your money in gambling or trading, this concept is applicable to bitcoin also and we should be able to put the money we won’t be needing any time soon especially after sorting out our basic needs because bitcoin is a highly volatile asset and there’s no guarantee of making profit neither is their any guarantee that we won’t be losing due to some certain reasons.

[JayJuanGee]

Invest into bitcoin with no more than you can afford to lose is the right framework and the right perspective.  The same expression is used in gambling and trading and even shitcoins, yet of course we know that bitcoin investing is superior to trading, gambling and fucking around with shitcoins.

Don't lose your perspective and start to presume that your investment in bitcoin is either guaranteed to be profitable or guaranteed to not lose you money. 

It seems a bit crazy that I have to keep repeating this idea for so many guys who are ongoingly fighting with the expression, which seems quite a bit of a distraction from this thread, including that maybe guys might need to go to another thread if they cannot accept that bitcoin investing is not guaranteed to be profitable and/or to not lose money even in the long term.  We should not have to keep beating around the same idea, over and over and over, and even my own words of ongoingly proclaiming that the correct expression is not to invest any more into bitcoin than you can afford to lose is the correct expression and framework for investing in bitcoin even for guys who may also be striving to figure out and put into practice ways that they are able to invest into bitcoin as aggressively as they can without overdoing it.  Those two ideas are not contradictory, even if we might have to ongoingly try to figure out ways to balance our bitcoin approach to account for both frameworks.

Your sentiment about this is spot on sir. The problem with most of this guys is that they believe 100% that Bitcoin will skyrocket and make a fortune for them in the future, forgetting that nothing is 100% guaranteed in this life, and Bitcoin is not an exception.

The main reason we have high hopes on Bitcoin is because of it rich history and it huge potential, but their is no where it's written in stone that it's going to rise up to a certain level in the future, so investing with our discretionary income, which is a fund we can afford to lose is the ideal thing to do, so that we will not be too affected financially and emotionally if our investment did not later go as expected, so you are right when you said that their is nothing wrong in using the phrase "invest with what you can afford to lose".

Hopefully none of us is investing into bitcoin with all of our discretionary income, since if we are investing into bitcoin with all of our discretionary income, then we are likely going into amounts that we cannot afford to lose, since we have to keep some of our discretionary income/funds for savings (and perhaps other investments, not that I am  personally recommending other investments) and discretionary consumption.  Yeah, maybe there will be some weeks/months that we might choose to put all of our discretionary income into bitcoin, yet that would likely not be sustainable either financially or psychologically to be putting that much into bitcoin.

Another thing is that some guys believe that there is no way that guys can arrive at a bitcoin investment position to invest aggressively into bitcoin if they are still trying to not put more money into bitcoin than they can afford to lose, and that likely is a mind-set rather than any kind of an actual contradiction.  It seems to me that guys should be able to figure out amounts that they can afford to lose, while still investing into bitcoin as aggressively as they are able to without overdoing it... and likely finding that level is a matter of ongoing, persistent, consistent and regular practice that involves building both their bitcoin stack size while at the same time strengthening their cashflow management systems - including ongoingly buttressing their back up funds.

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that's why we use our discretionary income to buy bitcoin, because 1) we can afford to lose and and 2) because we can leave it untouched for years.

Those are two different categories, which causes me to wonder why guys feel compelled to keep using both categories.

Category 1 trumps category 2.

Sure, we prefer category 2 to happen, but it is not guaranteed, so we cannot act like it is guaranteed, so there is no need to say it, since it is trumped by category 1.

At the same time that category 1 is the dominant category, we can also recognize and appreciate that as long as we do not engage in leverage, the most that we can lose with our bitcoin investment is 100% of what we put in, yet at the same time, bitcoin remains an asymmetric bet to the upside in which there remains great potential.

We put value into bitcoin (including time and energy) and maybe even great value into bitcoin, because we consider that the asymmetric bet is worth the potential of losing up to 100% of what we put in based on various upside scenarios that might result in very much higher pay offs.  Even though many of those payoffs had already happened for guys who invested in the past, especially if they had been investing in bitcoin for a long time, and the longer back that they entered into bitcoin the more likely that their payoffs in bitcoin had been considerably great as compared with the value that they put into bitcoin, yet merely because guys received payouts in the past from their involvement in bitcoin, the future payouts are not guaranteed, even though many of us likely recognize and appreciate that bitcoin's investment thesis remains quite strong, even if the upward price slope trajectory in the better case scenarios is likely not to be as steep as bitcoin's historic price slope trajectory has already been.

Yes, the term "bet" sounds like gambling, yet the term "bet" does not need to interpreted as gambling, unless you might be merely trying to denigrate the idea/practice of being involved in bitcoin.  We still pick our position size on an ongoing basis, and surely guys who are just starting may well pick a different position size as compared with guys who have been in bitcoin for a while as compared with guys who have been in bitcoin for a long time.  We should be striving to tailor our investment into bitcoin in accordance with our personal financial and pschological particulars as best as we are able to do so.

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You are right @bluebloodcxvI  that every investor has different goals, because there is no single holding period that fits everyone. But I also think Bitcoin should not be treated like a short term savings account for planned expenses such as buying a house in a few years.
For me I see bitcoin as a long.term asset or store of value and whether someone hold for  5, 10, or 20 years, the real idea should be to invest only with discretionary income so you don't have to sell because of a planned expense or during . Though at times the timeline may differ, but the long term mindset remain the same.

I understand if we are talking about other people it might not be easy to figure out their timeline, yet if we are talking about ourselves, we should be able to identify some specifics in our timeline, and sure, maybe our timeline is not exact since it might also depend where we are at in those specific points along the way, and we also could end up reassessing at various points along the way too.

[Agbam]

I am not exactly sure what you mean here.  I understand that we cannot deprive ourselves of discretionary consumption, but the part of "one or two" needed to buy is unclear, unless you are just referring to the balancing of investing and savings in respect to discretionary consumption choices that are made.  By the way discretionary consumption tends to be wants rather than needs, even though sometimes there might be very compelling reasons to spend the discretionary funds in a certain direction. Let's say for example, we have an older sister who is regularly sending us money for gifts and helping us with various projects that we have, and maybe when her birthday comes, we know that we could choose to spend a small amount on her or we could spend a larger amount, and we  might have some obligation to spend the larger amount in order to keep ourselves in good relations with our sister.. so we might end up spending $100 rather than $10 merely so that we can send a message to our sister that we appreciate the various ways that she had been helping us through the year. 

Yes, maybe my example is not great, even though I want to suggest that the $100 present to our sister in this case may well be considered to be a part of discretionary spending, even though there are strong justifications that we "need" to spend the money, even though in theory the amount is "optional."  There are various times that it might be difficult to know exactly which expenses are needs versus wants, and so sometimes we also might have to purposefully keep some extra money (perhaps in our reserve funds) that we keep for the various expenses (like a gift to our sister) that we might consider to be a want rather than a need, yet at the same time something that might get us into a lot of bad karma if we are not making sure to fulfill those kinds of social obligations that we have to various people in our lives (hopefully without overdoing it in that particular category, too).

Hahaha.. the phrase “one or two” is a Nigerian phrase we usually use to describe wants that may be important which differs one person to another, that we can’t put to words or don’t want to be specific about.(maybe trying to conceal it from others). I guess Merit.s got carried away while typing that cos he’s not talking to only Nigerian audience.

Just like the example you’re giving not everyone may consider gifting a sister a need and the ones that do may set money aside for it and if they don’t want others to know what the money is for they can say “it’s money for one or two”.