JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[reagansimms]

For those who are skeptical and are low income earners this is my summary:
1. You don't need to be a crypto expert before investing in bitcoin, basis knowledge is enough. As you progress in journey  you will gather all the knowledge you need.

2. Invest with the funds you can comfortably disperse with. Don't borrow to invest in bitcoin, the market is volatile.

3. Bitcoin is not a quick profit scheme

4. Be focused on Long term not short term

5. You don't need a lump sum you can buy in small portions and accumulate consistently.

I think the use of the word invest with the funds you can comfortably disperse with is not quite right because different words will have different understandings. The word you used are too abstract, the correct word should be Invest only with discretionary income, this use of word is straight to the point and there are rules. Investing with purely risk-free funds after all obligations are met has the potential to survive in the long term because your DCA will continue to run and investments will likely be successful because you are able to stay in the market for a long time, not because of market timing.
So I think the "comfortable" you are referring to is a feeling, while "Discretionary" is a number and numbers don't lie. That is, don't invest with Fomo feelings, but with realistic figures.

[Agbam]

Most people don't know how to handle disappointment but they still do things that will most likely lead to them getting disappointed, I don't see anything wrong with trying to predict the price of bitcoin, as long as you don't dwell on that prediction, but the moment you make a prediction and start to plan your investment around that prediction you will not be able to handle it when reality hits and things don't go the way you planned for them to, bitcoin is more or less impossible to predict 100% so while we can definitely try our luck we shouldn't depend on it.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here or you don’t know where you stand on the matter. Once you start making predictions of the market, gradually you’re conditioning your mind to make decisions based on that.

There’s no reason for you as a long term investor to be making decisions or plans looking at the price of bitcoin, it only brings poor outcomes. People who constantly look at price are short term investors or traders who are looking for what they call perfect entry to maximise their profits: in which case they miss out on opportunities waiting for that perfect entry point.
One good advantage of DCA is that it removes the stress of thinking about the market.

[Joeboy]

patience to hold for a long-term and the amount invested is really important to become rich in Bitcoin investment.

To become rich? Maybe it it best to correct the mentality of thinking that Bitcoin is guaranteed to make folks rich simply because they invested and held on to it for long term durations.. Surely when you invest in Bitcoin for long term periods of say 4yrs, 10yrs, 15yrs or so, it has the tendency of placing you or anyone in a much more better position... But then again it will be unrealistic to assume that becoming rich is a guaranteed outcome for every investors...

Moreso I really don't even think that making wealth should your primary focus in Bitcoin... Investing with the mindset of becoming rich could even lead to you trading your Bitcoin before reaching over-accumulation...jThats coz you will assume that a little pump in price is the profit that will lead to the wealth you have been expecting and just before you know it you have started timing and eventually you start selling for what i will call little profits... So it is best your.focus just be on how well you can increase and grow your Bitcoin portfolio, so that if Bitcoin performs well in the long run, then that will be a win win for you..

[Bluedrem]

You seem to be contradicting yourself here or you don’t know where you stand on the matter. Once you start making predictions of the market, gradually you’re conditioning your mind to make decisions based on that.

There’s no reason for you as a long term investor to be making decisions or plans looking at the price of bitcoin, it only brings poor outcomes. People who constantly look at price are short term investors or traders who are looking for what they call perfect entry to maximise their profits: in which case they miss out on opportunities waiting for that perfect entry point.
One good advantage of DCA is that it removes the stress of thinking about the market.

Yes, you are right. If a long-term investor who is currently investing in the DCA method is worried about the price forecast of Bitcoin as opposed to buying, it can have a big impact on his investment. Since he is buying for the long term, he will have to go through all the bull markets and bear markets during the time he is buying. That is, if you are used to managing DCA only when the price of Bitcoin is low, you will not be able to enrich your portfolio enough. Instead, if you use some of your discretionary income to buy Bitcoin regularly, i.e. manage DCA and when you think the market is bullish, then if you create a separate fund along with managing DCA that you can use to buy aggressively in bear markets along with the DCA that you regularly manage.
The point is that those who manage DCA and those who want to preserve their holdings for the long term do not need to focus on the price, what they need to look at is how many digits of Bitcoin they are able to buy.

[B-BossMan]

I frequently emphasize getting cashflow management under control, so then the strength of our cashflow management may well influence the parameters in which we invest, which includes how much discretionary funds are available and even how many back up funds that we are keeping and/or any other investments or assets/currencies that we might have to supplement our back up funds.

So then the price of bitcoin (or the strength of bitcoin as an investment) as compare with other places that we could put our time, energy and value is also a choice that we can make based on our looking into matters and also just our own understanding of our 9 individual factors.

For sure, my own suggestion is to build up our bitcoin investment prior to diversifying into other assets, yet at the same time, if guys come to bitcoin and they already hold a variety of other assets, then what they hold - and their perspective on those other assets as compared with bitcoin may well affect how much time, energy and value that they might choose to put into bitcoin as compared with other places.

I would not consider it to be a correct approach to tell anyone else how enthusiastic that he needs to be about bitcoin as compared with other places that he might choose to put time value and energy, yet at the same time, when any of us invest into bitcoin we are likely going to be incentivized to research further into bitcoin in a variety of ways based on our holding and building up of bitcoin. Maybe if we remain whimpy or aggressive investors then those behaviors can have snowballing effects too.  Also, if we end up making mistakes or otherwise getting caught up in situations in which we end up losing large portions of our bitcoin stash (such as what happened to some bitcoiners who had generated their pass word keys through Cold Card), then we can become disgruntled in regards to bitcoin.  So our own history can affect our future behaviors too, and I surely think that it is a good idea to learn about bitcoin as we go, and guys can choose how they learn and what they learn about and if they start to fuck around with trading and/or shitcoins based on their learning, then that is on them in terms of their distraction and/or lack of ability to stay focused on bitcoin.

That's a great emphasis, because even with the investment habits or plans our cashflow should be the first priority, when the cashflow get stronger it will leads us to many options freely. Like determining our financial stability and also leads us to the success in bitcoin investment. When it covers our expenses consistently. We can freely invest into bitcoin by Dollar-Cost Averaging strategy regularly, without any panic, building an emergency funds prevent us from tempering with our already built bitcoin investment even in the difficulty financial situations. But having a poor cashflow management will definitely force us to sell our bitcoin holdings. Moreover controlling cashflow at first is good, because that would makes one to decide how much they can invest into bitcoin with thier discretionary income, and identify how long they can be holding their bitcoin without selling it during the difficult time.

[Humblevirus]

Most people don't know how to handle disappointment but they still do things that will most likely lead to them getting disappointed, I don't see anything wrong with trying to predict the price of bitcoin, as long as you don't dwell on that prediction, but the moment you make a prediction and start to plan your investment around that prediction you will not be able to handle it when reality hits and things don't go the way you planned for them to, bitcoin is more or less impossible to predict 100% so while we can definitely try our luck we shouldn't depend on it.

Being an investor, it is not ideal to always predict the price of Bitcoin because that can gradually turn an investor into a trader, and it has happened to some investors before and regretted it at end.How will someone predict Bitcoin's price and will not be always attempted to take action to outsmart the price.and from there he it may not like to focus on it Bitcoin  accumulation again and they may begin making wrong decisions by constantly trying to time the market just to buy and sell later.amd it  becomes a big distraction from an investor for Bitcoin accumulation strategy. As long as an investor does not want to play along with Bitcoin's price movements, why should they bother checking the price of Bitcoin from time to time?

[Legal Fidelia]

You are right, investing with money that you can afford to lose doesn’t mean that people should expect that bitcoin will crash one day or that theyre going to lose all their money. It is just a warning that people shouldn’t invest with money meant for house rent, fees school, bill or food stuff. 

I completely disagree with your explanation about investing with what you can afford to loss. Of course the reason why we frequently suggest that every person should invest with what they can afford to loss is due to the fact that there's no guarantee if the price of Bitcoin will go up in the future. then again we don't know if Bitcoin will crash one day so these are the reasons why it is advised to invest with what  you can afford to loss. Isn't because of house rent, school fees or bla bla bla, But it's due to these reasons I gave here, there's every possiblity that Bitcoin will crash one day you really can't tell because it's a decentralized digital asset.

I think you mixing up things. If you are claiming that wasn't the right explanation of what we can afford to lose then what better way can you explain it for newbies not to be mislead. Because from what I understand is that the discretionary funds is the funds we can afford to lose as it's the remaining funds after every necessary expenses ( feeding, house rentage, children school fees etc) has already been taking care of so that if their is any uncertainty just as you earlier said one won't be totally distabilize. Perhaps, I was just curious if their is any other funds that better describe the funds we can afford to lose like the discretionary funds.

The funds that you can afford to lose should be a subset of funds within discretionary funds.

Of course, guys could use all of their discretionary funds to buy bitcoin, yet if guys consistently use all of their discretionary funds to buy bitcoin, then they are likely overdoing their investment in bitcoin and investing with money beyond the amount that they can afford to lose (financially and/or psychologically), since guys need to have some of their discretionary funds to be available and used for savings (adding to back up funds) and discretionary consumption. 

Guys should not be completely neglecting or underallocating (such as low amounts or even 0%) to either their savings and/or to their discretionary consumption.

Totally true, as to what you have said; you can use your discretionary consumption but not everytime.

I came in assuming you had to understand halving cycles, UTXO mechanics, custody, cold storage, tax implications — basically become an expert; before putting in a single sat. Reading this thread flipped that: the actual prerequisites are much smaller. Have some money you can genuinely afford to lose, understand the very basic idea of "long time horizon, don't panic sell," and start. Everything else — the deeper stuff — you learn while you're already in, because having actual skin in the game is what makes you pay attention and retain the knowledge in the first place.
That said, I don't think this means "learn nothing first." A few basics still feel non-negotiable before buying anything.

[Mehmet69]

For those who are skeptical and are low income earners this is my summary:
1. You don't need to be a crypto expert before investing in bitcoin, basis knowledge is enough. As you progress in journey  you will gather all the knowledge you need.

2. Invest with the funds you can comfortably disperse with. Don't borrow to invest in bitcoin, the market is volatile.

3. Bitcoin is not a quick profit scheme

4. Be focused on Long term not short term

5. You don't need a lump sum you can buy in small portions and accumulate consistently.

I think the use of the word invest with the funds you can comfortably disperse with is not quite right because different words will have different understandings. The word you used are too abstract, the correct word should be Invest only with discretionary income, this use of word is straight to the point and there are rules. Investing with purely risk-free funds after all obligations are met has the potential to survive in the long term because your DCA will continue to run and investments will likely be successful because you are able to stay in the market for a long time, not because of market timing.
So I think the "comfortable" you are referring to is a feeling, while "Discretionary" is a number and numbers don't lie. That is, don't invest with Fomo feelings, but with realistic figures.

Yes. The amount of investment should be determined based on the comfort level of each person. But the amount of discretionary income can change with the change in our income and expenses. In this case, we can see it as part of the financial plan rather than considering it as an exact number. When we determine the amount for investment, we will determine it based on the budget and cash flow and invest with the remaining money after meeting all the needs in our current life, so that the market does not affect the disappointment. And maintaining consistency is more important in achieving long-term success. Investment decisions should not be made only on the amount of money but on the overall financial plan. So I would say that investing based on realistic budget and cash flow management and long-term planning is a sustainable method.

[Lembo69]

Yes. The amount of investment should be determined based on the comfort level of each person. But the amount of discretionary income can change with the change in our income and expenses. In this case, we can see it as part of the financial plan rather than considering it as an exact number. When we determine the amount for investment, we will determine it based on the budget and cash flow and invest with the remaining money after meeting all the needs in our current life, so that the market does not affect the disappointment. And maintaining consistency is more important in achieving long-term success. Investment decisions should not be made only on the amount of money but on the overall financial plan. So I would say that investing based on realistic budget and cash flow management and long-term planning is a sustainable method.

Look, since you are investing and it is for your future, my advice would be not to waste the present by stressing about the future. There is no need to put unnecessary pressure on yourself by investing beyond your means. You should only invest as much as you can after meeting all your needs.

For example, if you have a plan to travel somewhere tomorrow and if it is by plane, then just as you would book a ticket today to make tomorrow's travel easier, so is investing. Your investment in Bitcoin is also to make your future life easier.

Since you will invest to make your future life easier, it is not okay to not invest. You should only invest within your means. And to make the investment a long-term investment, you must maintain investment discipline and consistency.

[hmbdofficial]

I frequently emphasize getting cashflow management under control, so then the strength of our cashflow management may well influence the parameters in which we invest, which includes how much discretionary funds are available and even how many back up funds that we are keeping and/or any other investments or assets/currencies that we might have to supplement our back up funds.

So then the price of bitcoin (or the strength of bitcoin as an investment) as compare with other places that we could put our time, energy and value is also a choice that we can make based on our looking into matters and also just our own understanding of our 9 individual factors.

For sure, my own suggestion is to build up our bitcoin investment prior to diversifying into other assets, yet at the same time, if guys come to bitcoin and they already hold a variety of other assets, then what they hold - and their perspective on those other assets as compared with bitcoin may well affect how much time, energy and value that they might choose to put into bitcoin as compared with other places.

I would not consider it to be a correct approach to tell anyone else how enthusiastic that he needs to be about bitcoin as compared with other places that he might choose to put time value and energy, yet at the same time, when any of us invest into bitcoin we are likely going to be incentivized to research further into bitcoin in a variety of ways based on our holding and building up of bitcoin. Maybe if we remain whimpy or aggressive investors then those behaviors can have snowballing effects too.  Also, if we end up making mistakes or otherwise getting caught up in situations in which we end up losing large portions of our bitcoin stash (such as what happened to some bitcoiners who had generated their pass word keys through Cold Card), then we can become disgruntled in regards to bitcoin.  So our own history can affect our future behaviors too, and I surely think that it is a good idea to learn about bitcoin as we go, and guys can choose how they learn and what they learn about and if they start to fuck around with trading and/or shitcoins based on their learning, then that is on them in terms of their distraction and/or lack of ability to stay focused on bitcoin.

Yes I think this is an important distinction bitcoin conviction and bitcoin allocation are not necessarily the same thing. That is why some can have strong conviction and still have a relatively small allocation because of their cash flow, emergency reserves, family responsibilities, or even existing investments impose practical limits. Likewise some can have large bitcoin positions without necessarily understanding bitcoin particularly well.
That is why cash flow management is always important starting point. Before considering how much bitcoin to buy, one has to look whether their financial foundation can actually absorb its volatility without forcing them to sell prematurely at hard time.
I also agree that exiting assets can also influence how someone may evaluate bitcoin, for example if someone already has some properties, equity, or other investments, they will not evaluate bitcoin particularly In isolation. That will be effectively asking where does my next unit of energy, time and capital have the highest form of value for me. And that ultimately a personal decision anyway.

[The Founding Titan]

For those who are skeptical and are low income earners this is my summary:
1. You don't need to be a crypto expert before investing in bitcoin, basis knowledge is enough. As you progress in journey  you will gather all the knowledge you need.

2. Invest with the funds you can comfortably disperse with. Don't borrow to invest in bitcoin, the market is volatile.

3. Bitcoin is not a quick profit scheme

4. Be focused on Long term not short term

5. You don't need a lump sum you can buy in small portions and accumulate consistently.

I agree with most of your points, starting with the basics, accumulating little by little and thinking long term growth However, I think the  point  you made in the second paragraph could be explained better.

Because instead of saying invest  with the funds you can comfortably disperse with," I think it's better  and clearer to say invest only with your discretionary income the reason is not because of the volatile nature of bitcoin. It is because discretionary income is money left after someone might have taken care of his or her essential needs because when one invest this way  it makes it easier to hold for long term without putting your finances under pressure or being forced to sell when unexpected expenses come up. That's the one of the  major idea investors should understand from the beginning.

While we invest in bitcoin with our discretionary income it is not like we invest with all of our discretionary income, so I would say to invest with what you can tolerate from your discretionary income which is basically investing with money you can afford to lose so while we announce that we invest with our discretionary income we should also make sure that newbies don't misunderstand us and end up thinking they should invest in bitcoin with all of their discretionary income, doing that would mean forfeiting our emergency fund and our discretionary consumptions.

[Xackie]

I frequently emphasize getting cashflow management under control, so then the strength of our cashflow management may well influence the parameters in which we invest, which includes how much discretionary funds are available and even how many back up funds that we are keeping and/or any other investments or assets/currencies that we might have to supplement our back up funds.

So then the price of bitcoin (or the strength of bitcoin as an investment) as compare with other places that we could put our time, energy and value is also a choice that we can make based on our looking into matters and also just our own understanding of our 9 individual factors.

For sure, my own suggestion is to build up our bitcoin investment prior to diversifying into other assets, yet at the same time, if guys come to bitcoin and they already hold a variety of other assets, then what they hold - and their perspective on those other assets as compared with bitcoin may well affect how much time, energy and value that they might choose to put into bitcoin as compared with other places.

I would not consider it to be a correct approach to tell anyone else how enthusiastic that he needs to be about bitcoin as compared with other places that he might choose to put time value and energy, yet at the same time, when any of us invest into bitcoin we are likely going to be incentivized to research further into bitcoin in a variety of ways based on our holding and building up of bitcoin. Maybe if we remain whimpy or aggressive investors then those behaviors can have snowballing effects too.  Also, if we end up making mistakes or otherwise getting caught up in situations in which we end up losing large portions of our bitcoin stash (such as what happened to some bitcoiners who had generated their pass word keys through Cold Card), then we can become disgruntled in regards to bitcoin.  So our own history can affect our future behaviors too, and I surely think that it is a good idea to learn about bitcoin as we go, and guys can choose how they learn and what they learn about and if they start to fuck around with trading and/or shitcoins based on their learning, then that is on them in terms of their distraction and/or lack of ability to stay focused on bitcoin.

That's a great emphasis, because even with the investment habits or plans our cashflow should be the first priority, when the cashflow get stronger it will leads us to many options freely. Like determining our financial stability and also leads us to the success in bitcoin investment. When it covers our expenses consistently. We can freely invest into bitcoin by Dollar-Cost Averaging strategy regularly, without any panic, building an emergency funds prevent us from tempering with our already built bitcoin investment even in the difficulty financial situations. But having a poor cashflow management will definitely force us to sell our bitcoin holdings. Moreover controlling cashflow at first is good, because that would makes one to decide how much they can invest into bitcoin with thier discretionary income, and identify how long they can be holding their bitcoin without selling it during the difficult time.

Realistically poor cash flow is very hard to work with, but investors can still find ways to manage themselves with it. I don’t fully agree with you that poor cash flow management can force someone to sell, there are  people with low or unstable income that are have been investing in bitcoin for years without facing the pressure to sell. I think poor cash flow can take two different forms.
1. A moderate or high income that comes in irregularly.
2. A very low income that also comes in irregularly.

One way to do it (for number 1), is by adjusting your lifestyle and cutting your unnecessary expenses.  We have different types of expenses, some are essential (e.g bills,food,housing etc) while the other are not really important (someone can survive without them e.g over priced designer clothes or shoes, or owning multiple cars when one is enough can put unnecessary pressure on your finances., or eating out at a restaurants frequently when there's food at home and so many more).Then if they can sort their bills , any spare funds remaining ca be their discretionary income.

  Before I forget, there might  still be some level of poor cashflow for example (number 2)  some people are receiving a very low amount that can't cover half of their bills (best advice for them is to look for ways to generate income). They might still invest  in bitcoin (if paraventure they have $5-$10 remaining as spare cash by luck) but I don't think it will be consistent (even if the figure out their discretionary income) especially if they want buy weekly or monthly.  But I would rather put that $5-$10  remaining as my emergency savings because I have a weak and unstable wage and try to find side hustle in which i will use to generate more cash (then i can start planning to invest in bitcoin hurting myself). Someone with unstable but decent income can find way to invest through better budgeting and spending habits, while sumone with very low income may need to focus on increasing their earnings before committing to a regular Bitcoin investment strategy.

[IceLincoln]

I frequently emphasize getting cashflow management under control, so then the strength of our cashflow management may well influence the parameters in which we invest, which includes how much discretionary funds are available and even how many back up funds that we are keeping and/or any other investments or assets/currencies that we might have to supplement our back up funds.

So then the price of bitcoin (or the strength of bitcoin as an investment) as compare with other places that we could put our time, energy and value is also a choice that we can make based on our looking into matters and also just our own understanding of our 9 individual factors.

For sure, my own suggestion is to build up our bitcoin investment prior to diversifying into other assets, yet at the same time, if guys come to bitcoin and they already hold a variety of other assets, then what they hold - and their perspective on those other assets as compared with bitcoin may well affect how much time, energy and value that they might choose to put into bitcoin as compared with other places.

I would not consider it to be a correct approach to tell anyone else how enthusiastic that he needs to be about bitcoin as compared with other places that he might choose to put time value and energy, yet at the same time, when any of us invest into bitcoin we are likely going to be incentivized to research further into bitcoin in a variety of ways based on our holding and building up of bitcoin. Maybe if we remain whimpy or aggressive investors then those behaviors can have snowballing effects too.  Also, if we end up making mistakes or otherwise getting caught up in situations in which we end up losing large portions of our bitcoin stash (such as what happened to some bitcoiners who had generated their pass word keys through Cold Card), then we can become disgruntled in regards to bitcoin.  So our own history can affect our future behaviors too, and I surely think that it is a good idea to learn about bitcoin as we go, and guys can choose how they learn and what they learn about and if they start to fuck around with trading and/or shitcoins based on their learning, then that is on them in terms of their distraction and/or lack of ability to stay focused on bitcoin.

Yes I think this is an important distinction bitcoin conviction and bitcoin allocation are not necessarily the same thing. That is why some can have strong conviction and still have a relatively small allocation because of their cash flow, emergency reserves, family responsibilities, or even existing investments impose practical limits. Likewise some can have large bitcoin positions without necessarily understanding bitcoin particularly well.
That is why cash flow management is always important starting point. Before considering how much bitcoin to buy, one has to look whether their financial foundation can actually absorb its volatility without forcing them to sell prematurely at hard time.
I also agree that exiting assets can also influence how someone may evaluate bitcoin, for example if someone already has some properties, equity, or other investments, they will not evaluate bitcoin particularly In isolation. That will be effectively asking where does my next unit of energy, time and capital have the highest form of value for me. And that ultimately a personal decision anyway.

Yes I agree, our individual circumstances and financial capabilities have a strong role to play in how we view and approach bitcoin investments, that’s why I always tell folks not to compare themselves to others.
What we owe ourselves is to gain the right knowledge and understanding of bitcoin then implement strategies that best suits our financial situation and long term goals.
Another important aspect is the security of our investments. We have to be extra cautious and vigilant in protecting our investments as much as we focus on accumulating. There’s no value in accumulating bitcoin for years if we fail to protect it properly.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Yes I agree, our individual circumstances and financial capabilities have a strong role to play in how we view and approach bitcoin investments, that’s why I always tell folks not to compare themselves to others.
What we owe ourselves is to gain the right knowledge and understanding of bitcoin then implement strategies that best suits our financial situation and long term goals.

For sure we talk about gaining more and more familiarity with bitcoin with the passage of time, yet at the same time, many of us know that the power of our ongoingly being able to buy bitcoin and to make sure that we are ongoingly building our bitcoin investment and strengthening our back up funds is based on our cashflow management, and hopefully we are also ongoingly learning as we go, since we might not need to know a lot in the beginning, yet as we build our bitcoin and presumptively our financial and psychological security by ongoingly building our networth, then it becomes more likely that we are tailoring our learning and tailoring any changes in our practices and/or our plans about how to progress through bitcoin accumulation into bitcoin management and maintenance and then perhaps later into variations of sustainable withdrawal.  Tailoring how to go through these stages is based on our progress and our ongoing learning.

Another important aspect is the security of our investments. We have to be extra cautious and vigilant in protecting our investments as much as we focus on accumulating. There’s no value in accumulating bitcoin for years if we fail to protect it properly.

For sure, the more bitcoin we accumulate, the more measures we have to take to make sure that we are adequately protecting our bitcoin stash and hopefully also protecting whatever privacy that we feel that we need to maintain.  Like you said, it would be a shame if we spent 4-10 years or longer accumulating bitcoin, and then end up losing large portions, if not all, of our bitcoin stash due to our own sloppiness in regards to how we are holding our coins, to the extent that some coins might be on exchanges and even in hot wallets, an other coins might be in medium cold storage and other coins might be in deeper cold storage, and also hopefully our security is not so complicated that we end up locking ourselves (or our intended heirs) out of our coins.

Being your own bank has certain levels of complications, and some people might not want to be their own bank or they might want to limit how much they are being their own bank, even though self-custody brings value to bitcoin, and self-custody is what makes bitcoin powerful and valuable..