JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[JayJuanGee]

Being your own bank has certain levels of complications, and some people might not want to be their own bank or they might want to limit how much they are being their own bank, even though self-custody brings value to bitcoin, and self-custody is what makes bitcoin powerful and valuable..

The power of bitcoin lies in it’s decentralisation, but you find that some investors still don’t fully grasp this concept to appreciate what it actually means or should I say they’re lazy and choose the easy path. There are still investors today who hold their coins in exchanges or hot wallets. Sometimes it seems that people don’t want the responsibility of being their own bank or to be held accountable, they prefer others to do their dirty work even with the risks involved.
This is something we should be discussing often aside from strategies of accumulating and hodling, discussions on the importance of securing our wallets properly should be considered and encouraged.
Accumulating bitcoin I think is one side of the coin, the other part is securing it properly.

Since security issues arise after starting investing in Bitcoin, here we can discuss how to start investing and what kind of mindset one should have... Discussion on investment is  is different type from discussion on security. This thread has been opened for discussion on investment issues by JJG sir . In my opinion, this thread should have relevant discussions on how to start investing for beginners and how to sustain it in the long term, especially why they should start, how much to start with, how to balance the necessary expenses and backup funds, how aggressive to be and how to run accumulation for 4-10 years or more. After that, along with starting investing, a suitable separate discussion or specialized thread can be followed on custody and security. So I am not minimizing the importance of security. Rather, I am saying that the right topic needs to be discussed at the right level and in the right place. There is no need to tell a new person all the complexities of being their own bank on the first day or burden them with responsibilities. He can start small with his own extra money, increase his position as he learns, and improve his security setup as the value of his stash and his own skills increase. Both the mindset to start with and the technical process of protecting coins are important, but they are not the same discussion and for a more in depth discussion on security or if someone knows something about it, it seems quite appropriate to discuss that topic in a separate topic.

This thread is not only for beginners, and I frequently talk about both security and self-custody as being on a spectrum, which largely means that the more bitcoin we hold, the more likely that we are going to have to increase our security and to hold more of that value in self-custody rather than third parties.

The mere fact that a lot of guys are in their early stages of bitcoin accumulation tends to cause a gravitation in the discussion towards the ways that guys accumulate bitcoin, which also likely involves thinking about ways to strengthen cashflow management and back up funds to the extent that guys might not already have systems in place that are strong enough for their bitcoin holdings - and surely as their bitcoin holdings grow then they may need to consider their cashflow management and their back up funds in different ways as compared with the times in which they did not have any bitcoin.

You are probably correct that we might not want to get caught up in the weeds of security and self-custody, even though surely there can be quite a bit of specialization in those kinds of discussions and there can be some dangers in getting into too much detail regarding what guys have as their security and/or self-custody set-up.  Many of us likely realize that bitcoin would have little to no value or even power if normal people were not able to self-custody it, so even though there may be some folks who are not ready, willing and/or able to self-custody, self-custody remains a valuable aspiration, even if guys do not necessarily need to start out their investment into bitcoin with self-custody.

[edited out]

We don't have perfect control over what happens to us, what can happen to someone who is older can still happen to someone else who is much younger but an older person is in a much likely position to share certain secrets with their family than a younger person unless that older person is estranged from the family which I must say is a really sad thing to happen.
We really need it have people we can trust in our lives, you don't have to hand over your keys to them but you just have to make sure that if something does happen to you they will be able to access your keys (this will be after the person is no longer alive) there are alot of ways to make sure people get their hands on things even after the owner is dead.

Of course, one of the unique attributes of bitcoin is that it has no physical manifestation, so in that regard, bitcoin can be kept in ways that are not recoverable once the owner is no longer alive.

Security setup warning at the end is not stressed enough, however. People get hung up on buying up, and then they make the plan so complicated for their family to follow that if they can not follow it, they can not access it. Bitcoin passing down planning is indeed problem that needs to be dealt with by most Bitcoin holders and is equally as important as the buying process itself.

I think that the most important aspect of bitcoin investing and profiting from it should be a self-ish level, and sure, if there is still money left over upon death then that money can be passed down to heirs, yet I would not consider the passing down to heirs as being the most important issue or problem, even though it is something that some bitcoiners consider to be important, yet to me it seems like a want rather than a need.

I think that is the practical way to look at it, the first responsibility of bitcoin investor is to improve their quality of life and their own financial position. Before that thinking comes to mind, leaving wealth to next generation, because there’s small point in making inheritance the main object if you, yourself have not first benefit from asset, If you don’t achieve financial stability during your lifetime.  there may not be much left to pass on. If your bitcoin ultimately outlives you and your heirs inherits it, that’s a great outcome. But at same time I see it as the result of successful long term investment journey,not for starting the journey in first place, I think investor should first focus on achieving financial security and creating more freedom during their lifetime. Once those goal are achieved, leaving bitcoin behind becomes natural extension of that success.

Many folks accumulate excess property and also are not able to liquidate and/or spend that property/assets within their lifetime, so they don't mind having inheritance (or some variations of successorship) as their back up plans.

There are other folks who purposefully want to accumulate wealth in order to be able to pass it on.   These can be choices, even though surely only a guy who has already been able to meet his basic needs is able to have the luxury of having excess wealth to be able to pass on, and sure it is the case that so many folks will die with some amount of wealth, since there are fairly rare cases that any of us can really know when our time of death is going to be.

Over aggressive accumulation can not necessarily be sustained in this manner, no matter how we try to side line it the simple truth is that we have other things we can do with our discretionary income, you can't ignore your discretionary spendings forever and that's why you will hardly see someone who is being 100% in their aggressiveness because at the end of the day it's simply not sustainable so our choices are guided by what's realistic and not just what we want to do, I can want to invest in bitcoin with all of my discretionary income but that doesn't mean I can do it.

You are mistaken aggressive for over aggressive. The difference is this, over aggressive buying is when you are using more than your discretionary income to buy bitcoin which means that you have used part of money for your basic needs to buy bitcoin. I call that gambling and a misplaced priority because when you needs pop up, you will sell the bitcoin at loss if the price is below your entry point. Which is a wrong way to increase your bitcoin stash.

Aggressive buying is when you are using a larger part of your discretionary income to buy bitcoin. Which is encouraged and you're doing it because it wouldn't affect you financially. However, it's not realistic for anyone to say that he would ignore his discretionary consumption because he's investing into bitcoin because you will be suffering yourself and no one will love to do that because you are on a long term bitcoin investment journey.

Even though the two of you are trying to distinguish between aggressive and over aggressive in different ways, you seem to be saying similar things.

Surely it is easy to proclaim that investing into bitcoin beyond our discretionary funds (or our discretionary income) would be over aggressive, yet there still could be some line in which we are still investing into bitcoin within our discretionary funds (income) yet still being over aggressive because we are not retaining enough of our discretionary funds/income for the purposes of savings and/or discretionary consumption.

Where that line is drawn will likely vary from individual to individual, and surely one or to pay period of going overboard in one direction or another might not be enough to really make a difference, especially if we already have back up funds in place, yet it seems that the point that @ZeroVinsonN is making relates to guys who might constantly invest high portions of their discretionary funds into bitcoin without holding back any value for savings and/or discretionary consumption,  and he is arguing that those kinds of practices would end up going into the overaggressive category because it is unsustainable.  ZeroVinsonN assertion seems reasonable, even though guys can differ in their opinions in regards to how aggressive they are able to be without overdoing it.

[sotelorene]

It's not a regular conversation to see people talking about passing their bitcoin holdings down maybe like some kind of an inheritance, it is not our of the question but if you want to pass it down to someone else you will have to pass down your keys as well for them to be able to access that inheritance, this is really not too complicated, let's say you store your keys offline which is the best place to store it then you just have to make sure they have access to it when the time for that comes around.

I agree with you that this is not a regular conversation  most investors would like to talk about, but you are here talking as if you knows when you are going to die and leave this world.
Do you know that you might be killed by your own family member very early or your asset may be sold off if an unworthy person gets a hold of your secret phase?
Am not saying that it's a bad thing to trust some of your family members, but what am trying to say is that it would be wrong to reveal your secret phase to any of them even though it's a more reliable person because a carelessness from such person will cost you dearly, unlike when the details of your asset are only with you and your lawyer.

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

I hope you know death is inevitable and again it doesn't look at age I mean there is no age range in death because it can happen to anyone anytime, any day and it is always unexpected though I'm not saying or wishing you had but I'm just telling you something you know or something you should know. If not for the fact that it won't make any sense for someone to have an asset stored somewhere and be wasting I wouldn't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase because you don't know people's e intention.

[The Founding Titan]

[edited out]

We don't have perfect control over what happens to us, what can happen to someone who is older can still happen to someone else who is much younger but an older person is in a much likely position to share certain secrets with their family than a younger person unless that older person is estranged from the family which I must say is a really sad thing to happen.
We really need it have people we can trust in our lives, you don't have to hand over your keys to them but you just have to make sure that if something does happen to you they will be able to access your keys (this will be after the person is no longer alive) there are alot of ways to make sure people get their hands on things even after the owner is dead.

Of course, one of the unique attributes of bitcoin is that it has no physical manifestation, so in that regard, bitcoin can be kept in ways that are not recoverable once the owner is no longer alive.

True but that doesn't automatically eliminate every possibility of it still being passed as an inheritance, which is why I'm saying to not give the keys to them but to make it so it will get to them once the person dies, that way even though bitcoin doesn't have a physical manifestation access to it can still move from person to person, if not any bitcoin holder who dies will lead to their holdings being lost as well.

It's not a regular conversation to see people talking about passing their bitcoin holdings down maybe like some kind of an inheritance, it is not our of the question but if you want to pass it down to someone else you will have to pass down your keys as well for them to be able to access that inheritance, this is really not too complicated, let's say you store your keys offline which is the best place to store it then you just have to make sure they have access to it when the time for that comes around.

I agree with you that this is not a regular conversation  most investors would like to talk about, but you are here talking as if you knows when you are going to die and leave this world.
Do you know that you might be killed by your own family member very early or your asset may be sold off if an unworthy person gets a hold of your secret phase?
Am not saying that it's a bad thing to trust some of your family members, but what am trying to say is that it would be wrong to reveal your secret phase to any of them even though it's a more reliable person because a carelessness from such person will cost you dearly, unlike when the details of your asset are only with you and your lawyer.

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

I hope you know death is inevitable and again it doesn't look at age I mean there is no age range in death because it can happen to anyone anytime, any day and it is always unexpected though I'm not saying or wishing you had but I'm just telling you something you know or something you should know. If not for the fact that it won't make any sense for someone to have an asset stored somewhere and be wasting I wouldn't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase because you don't know people's e intention.

Clearly but that doesn't automatically make a lawyer the better alternative to your family, unless you have the kind of family that will do anything to end you and take over your assets tbe moment they know it will come to them.
Plusy argument isn't about who to necessarily trust more but to make sure that if and when a person dies their assets will still go to who they want them to go to, bitcoin holdings included.

[Rabata]

Being your own bank has certain levels of complications, and some people might not want to be their own bank or they might want to limit how much they are being their own bank, even though self-custody brings value to bitcoin, and self-custody is what makes bitcoin powerful and valuable..

The power of bitcoin lies in it’s decentralisation, but you find that some investors still don’t fully grasp this concept to appreciate what it actually means or should I say they’re lazy and choose the easy path. There are still investors today who hold their coins in exchanges or hot wallets. Sometimes it seems that people don’t want the responsibility of being their own bank or to be held accountable, they prefer others to do their dirty work even with the risks involved.
This is something we should be discussing often aside from strategies of accumulating and hodling, discussions on the importance of securing our wallets properly should be considered and encouraged.
Accumulating bitcoin I think is one side of the coin, the other part is securing it properly.

What you said about self-custody is certainly important but it is not fair of you to call those who have not yet fully gone into self-custody lazy or irresponsible.

Suppose a new investor has bought a small amount of Bitcoin a few days/weeks ago, and he probably doesn't understand everything about private keys, secret phrase storage, device security, and succession planning. Again, if we force him to learn, he will almost certainly end up in a frustrating situation. Because we may be forcing him to learn something he is not yet mentally ready for. In such a situation, there is nothing wrong with temporarily keeping a small amount of money on an exchange. Rather, if he keeps it in his own wallet without understanding, he may face problems later. In such a situation, we will not advise anyone harshly, but we will ask him to continue saving small amounts from the exchange and advise him to learn gradually. Then, when he is ready about his security, he will transfer it to his own wallet. Of course, everyone's ultimate plan should be self-custody, but exchanges can be a learning step. Later, as you increase your savings, it may be more necessary to emphasize learning about self-custody.

[Creeper0]

I hope you know death is inevitable and again it doesn't look at age I mean there is no age range in death because it can happen to anyone anytime, any day and it is always unexpected though I'm not saying or wishing you had but I'm just telling you something you know or something you should know. If not for the fact that it won't make any sense for someone to have an asset stored somewhere and be wasting I wouldn't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase because you don't know people's e intention.

Without exchanging the seed phrase with others, you can create an inheritance management. You just need to know the strategy and use your own knowledge. Regardless of age, inheritance management is important. I can't tell you how to do it, you need to build it based on your home and local circumstances so that it is under your control while you are alive and the person you choose can find it when you die.

The first step in inheritance management is to identify an honest person who is very trustworthy and will not abuse your trust. Give him the necessary training and build a good understanding with you. Give him some hints that will be useful for recovering the seed phrase after your death, even hints about the location. In this case, you don't have to exchange the seed phrase with anyone during your lifetime and your bitcoins are not lost.

[Padi24]

I hope you know death is inevitable and again it doesn't look at age I mean there is no age range in death because it can happen to anyone anytime, any day and it is always unexpected though I'm not saying or wishing you had but I'm just telling you something you know or something you should know. If not for the fact that it won't make any sense for someone to have an asset stored somewhere and be wasting I wouldn't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase because you don't know people's e intention.

Since you don't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase with anyone then it means that you're suggesting that a person should keep them privately without the notice of anyone till the unknown "death" comes and then it becomes a waste. You know from the emphasis you make as regard to (death) how a person will leave all his asset if they don't disclose thier seed phrase to anyone is enough reason why we need to look for a next of kins. it must not be a member of your family that's if you feel that non of them can be trusted but  there might be this one person you would truth completely or maybe you already have plans to help him maybe your financial situation does not permit you to give him the kind of support yoh want to give to him as at that time.bug  if he's younger then you can give him access to your assets I'm sure there is no gift on earth or the ones he has received so far that will be compared to that very one  you gave him, at least it is better of than dieing with it.

[adultcrypto]

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

The truth is that it is not only old people that die, death can happen to anyone. You don't have to give your private keys to anyone now but you should be able to leave some clears to someone you consider worthy of inheriting your wealth should anything happen. If you have children, then they must know you own bitcoin and even they don't have access to the bitcoin now, they ought to know you have them and possibly where you keep the seed phrase is safely locked away from them. Some people even save their bitcoin among their children but willl not give them the keys just yet. The most important thing is your heirs or loved ones knowing you have bitcoin and also having a clue of how to access same in case you are no more.

[Sonia_123]

I hope you know death is inevitable and again it doesn't look at age I mean there is no age range in death because it can happen to anyone anytime, any day and it is always unexpected though I'm not saying or wishing you had but I'm just telling you something you know or something you should know. If not for the fact that it won't make any sense for someone to have an asset stored somewhere and be wasting I wouldn't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase because you don't know people's e intention.

Since you don't encourage the idea of sharing seed phrase with anyone then it means that you're suggesting that a person should keep them privately without the notice of anyone till the unknown "death" comes and then it becomes a waste. You know from the emphasis you make as regard to (death) how a person will leave all his asset if they don't disclose thier seed phrase to anyone is enough reason why we need to look for a next of kins. it must not be a member of your family that's if you feel that non of them can be trusted but  there might be this one person you would truth completely or maybe you already have plans to help him maybe your financial situation does not permit you to give him the kind of support yoh want to give to him as at that time.bug  if he's younger then you can give him access to your assets I'm sure there is no gift on earth or the ones he has received so far that will be compared to that very one  you gave him, at least it is better of than dieing with it.

I want to believe that people that die with their inheritance because of lack of trust of people around them are people without blood family members that is why it is difficult for them to pass on their inheritance also another set are those that already knows when they are dieing or the aged and so they sell off their investment and give it to charity since they cannot find a trusted person which they can transfer their inheritance to and instructions will be carried out accordingly as they wish, but if you have family members around you, there must be someone to pass it on to in other for the family not to face financial challenge when you are no more.

[ZeroVinsonN]

Over aggressive accumulation can not necessarily be sustained in this manner, no matter how we try to side line it the simple truth is that we have other things we can do with our discretionary income, you can't ignore your discretionary spendings forever and that's why you will hardly see someone who is being 100% in their aggressiveness because at the end of the day it's simply not sustainable so our choices are guided by what's realistic and not just what we want to do, I can want to invest in bitcoin with all of my discretionary income but that doesn't mean I can do it.

You are mistaken aggressive for over aggressive. The difference is this, over aggressive buying is when you are using more than your discretionary income to buy bitcoin which means that you have used part of money for your basic needs to buy bitcoin. I call that gambling and a misplaced priority because when you needs pop up, you will sell the bitcoin at loss if the price is below your entry point. Which is a wrong way to increase your bitcoin stash.

Aggressive buying is when you are using a larger part of your discretionary income to buy bitcoin. Which is encouraged and you're doing it because it wouldn't affect you financially. However, it's not realistic for anyone to say that he would ignore his discretionary consumption because he's investing into bitcoin because you will be suffering yourself and no one will love to do that because you are on a long term bitcoin investment journey.

I see your point but when I talked about overaggressive buying I was talking about those people who use so much from their discretionary income that they don't have enough for setting up their backup funds talk more about their discretionary consumption and when they when they buy bitcoin like this they will not be able to sustain it because even though there is no immediate emergency and they don't bother with their emergency fund they will even come to the realization that they can't go without their discretionary consumption for too long making their over agressiveness unsustainable.

[Tongley]

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

No one knows when someone will die. So from the very beginning, it is necessary to tell someone that you are investing in Bitcoin or that you own Bitcoin. Telling everyone will never be a good idea, you can tell your father or mother or if you have a wife, then your wife. You can tell 1 person from among those you trust. You do not need to give your seed phrase to anyone, you can now present your seed phrase to them through the rose puzzle so that if something unexpected happens to you, they can unlock unlimited Bitcoins.

When we get older, we can give our Bitcoin to someone we trust or hand over the seed phrase to him. Because when we get older, the chances of us dying are slightly higher than a young person. However, we can tell our seed phrase to someone through the puzzle when we are young.

[Obulis]

patience to hold for a long-term and the amount invested is really important to become rich in Bitcoin investment.

To become rich? Maybe it it best to correct the mentality of thinking that Bitcoin is guaranteed to make folks rich simply because they invested and held on to it for long term durations.. Surely when you invest in Bitcoin for long term periods of say 4yrs, 10yrs, 15yrs or so, it has the tendency of placing you or anyone in a much more better position... But then again it will be unrealistic to assume that becoming rich is a guaranteed outcome for every investors...

Moreso I really don't even think that making wealth should your primary focus in Bitcoin... Investing with the mindset of becoming rich could even lead to you trading your Bitcoin before reaching over-accumulation...jThats coz you will assume that a little pump in price is the profit that will lead to the wealth you have been expecting and just before you know it you have started timing and eventually you start selling for what i will call little profits... So it is best your.focus just be on how well you can increase and grow your Bitcoin portfolio, so that if Bitcoin performs well in the long run, then that will be a win win for you..

Very correct, any investor that's thinking that getting rich in Bitcoin is guaranteed is not in order because even newbies are starting their investment with the obvious idea that the outcome is not guaranteed. But very funny what you did here, quoting small portion of my post and said all what you said. To think of it, is it that you didn't read the whole of that post? Because if you did there will be no point for you to write as if it wasn't taken note of that getting rich in Bitcoin is not guaranteed, that investors should not be carried away with getting rich overnight to avoid the temptation of trading and the power of invested amount, howbeit an investor can't also be worried of getting rich from Bitcoin investment but should invest as much as they can afford to lose. The tendency of making good profit from long-term investment as long-term has proven to be reliable is what was pointed not on the ground of guaranteed investment.

[The Founding Titan]

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

No one knows when someone will die. So from the very beginning, it is necessary to tell someone that you are investing in Bitcoin or that you own Bitcoin. Telling everyone will never be a good idea, you can tell your father or mother or if you have a wife, then your wife. You can tell 1 person from among those you trust. You do not need to give your seed phrase to anyone, you can now present your seed phrase to them through the rose puzzle so that if something unexpected happens to you, they can unlock unlimited Bitcoins.

When we get older, we can give our Bitcoin to someone we trust or hand over the seed phrase to him. Because when we get older, the chances of us dying are slightly higher than a young person. However, we can tell our seed phrase to someone through the puzzle when we are young.

They will unlock bitcoin but not unlimited bitcoin, bitcoin itself be nature is limited plus whoever gets their hands on the bitcoin will only get what's left for them and nothing more than that.
Aside from maybe the possibility of getting robbed people have keep safest that their family don't have access to unless they are given access or locked away where only a next of kin will be able to get to should anything happen to the original own, nobody even has to know about what's being kept there as long as it's safe but to make sure that it doesn't get permanently lost it's best to make sure that at least one person will be able to get to it eventually.

[Tonimez]

patience to hold for a long-term and the amount invested is really important to become rich in Bitcoin investment.

To become rich? Maybe it it best to correct the mentality of thinking that Bitcoin is guaranteed to make folks rich simply because they invested and held on to it for long term durations.. Surely when you invest in Bitcoin for long term periods of say 4yrs, 10yrs, 15yrs or so, it has the tendency of placing you or anyone in a much more better position... But then again it will be unrealistic to assume that becoming rich is a guaranteed outcome for every investors...

Moreso I really don't even think that making wealth should your primary focus in Bitcoin... Investing with the mindset of becoming rich could even lead to you trading your Bitcoin before reaching over-accumulation...jThats coz you will assume that a little pump in price is the profit that will lead to the wealth you have been expecting and just before you know it you have started timing and eventually you start selling for what i will call little profits... So it is best your.focus just be on how well you can increase and grow your Bitcoin portfolio, so that if Bitcoin performs well in the long run, then that will be a win win for you..

Very correct, any investor that's thinking that getting rich in Bitcoin is guaranteed is not in order because even newbies are starting their investment with the obvious idea that the outcome is not guaranteed. But very funny what you did here, quoting small portion of my post and said all what you said. To think of it, is it that you didn't read the whole of that post? Because if you did there will be no point for you to write as if it wasn't taken note of that getting rich in Bitcoin is not guaranteed, that investors should not be carried away with getting rich overnight to avoid the temptation of trading and the power of invested amount, howbeit an investor can't also be worried of getting rich from Bitcoin investment but should invest as much as they can afford to lose. The tendency of making good profit from long-term investment as long-term has proven to be reliable is what was pointed not on the ground of guaranteed investment.

Though profit is not guaranteed in a long-term investment, it is not wrong to expect making a profit after a long-term. Most investors in bitcoin do it for some major reasons which includes to protect the value of their money and also to make profit. So it is not wrong to want to make profit but what matters is, how soon do you want to make the profit? Did the investor also forget the aspect of protecting the value of their money? When a person gets too focused on profits, he gets distracted into investing beyond what he can allow until he will make profit. Let's not make it look like profit is not part of the deal because at the end if your investments does not bring profit, then what have you done for that long period of more than 10 years?

Bitcoin as an investment means that just like other investments like the real estate, there should be a higher chances of making profit in the future to be justified as an investment.

[reagansimms]

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

The truth is that it is not only old people that die, death can happen to anyone. You don't have to give your private keys to anyone now but you should be able to leave some clears to someone you consider worthy of inheriting your wealth should anything happen. If you have children, then they must know you own bitcoin and even they don't have access to the bitcoin now, they ought to know you have them and possibly where you keep the seed phrase is safely locked away from them. Some people even save their bitcoin among their children but willl not give them the keys just yet. The most important thing is your heirs or loved ones knowing you have bitcoin and also having a clue of how to access same in case you are no more.

Yes, death can happen to anyone (young or old) at any time, completely unexpectedly. When faced with this reality, investors must always bear in mind: "Not your keys, not your coins. Not your plan, not your legacy." Bitcoin will remain stored in the wallet indefinitely; however, if the seed phrase is lost or not passed on before death, the assets will be lost forever, as no one can recover the wallet. Therefore, planning from the outset is crucial because Bitcoin differs from traditional banking systems, if the 24-word recovery phrase is lost, the assets become permanently locked. This is why approximately 3 to 4 million Bitcoin are no longer accessible due to negligence or a failure to inform heirs about the ownership of these assets.

Our task now is to ensure that the right person can access the Bitcoin should something bad happen to us. To prevent unauthorized access to your Bitcoin before the time is right, you can apply the principle of storing the information in two separate locations, you might entrust the first 12 words to your mother, father, wife, or child, while explaining to them that this is important because it relates to your savings. As for the remaining 12 words, you can store them in a safe or a safe deposit box, then, write a note stating that 12 words are at "X" and the other 12 are at "Y." Combine the two sets to access the wallet.

If you are married and have children, teach your wife and children about Bitcoin and how to access the wallet. The goal is to ensure that when the time comes, they are not confused or panicked, and do not lose the assets you have accumulated over the years.

[Halifat]

You trust your lawyer more with the secrets your assets? I'm still very young with no intentions of dying any time soon so there is currently no reason for me to share any of these with anyone other than myself but let's say I was old and my life was obviously no longer going to carry for very long then I would make sure my assets go to the right person/people, it's not about handing over your keys to someone else but about making sure that when you are no longer there the right person will have access to them, either that or you leave your bitcoin to become lost.

No one knows when someone will die. So from the very beginning, it is necessary to tell someone that you are investing in Bitcoin or that you own Bitcoin. Telling everyone will never be a good idea, you can tell your father or mother or if you have a wife, then your wife. You can tell 1 person from among those you trust. You do not need to give your seed phrase to anyone, you can now present your seed phrase to them through the rose puzzle so that if something unexpected happens to you, they can unlock unlimited Bitcoins.

When we get older, we can give our Bitcoin to someone we trust or hand over the seed phrase to him. Because when we get older, the chances of us dying are slightly higher than a young person. However, we can tell our seed phrase to someone through the puzzle when we are young.

Do you know that there are some old people who are expecting death, but the next thing they we hear is that their grandchild has died, based on my own opinion, right now i have a record book which everyone knows that I am using it and all my seed are there, again if I have issue or any thing with anyone I put it down there, if I am owing someone or someone is owing me, I put it down there and most especially, what I do is that anytime I am writing anything I have to call my closest son who I trust and also very close to me that so so person is owing me money before I put it down. They all know that I am into crypto but I never tell them that I have any, the only sign I gave to them is just physical meaning that my record book, because they all know I take it serious and definitely even though I pass away they will definitely take that book and they will find everything there.

[suhadi88]

Though profit is not guaranteed in a long-term investment, it is not wrong to expect making a profit after a long-term. Most investors in bitcoin do it for some major reasons which includes to protect the value of their money and also to make profit. So it is not wrong to want to make profit but what matters is, how soon do you want to make the profit? Did the investor also forget the aspect of protecting the value of their money? When a person gets too focused on profits, he gets distracted into investing beyond what he can allow until he will make profit. Let's not make it look like profit is not part of the deal because at the end if your investments does not bring profit, then what have you done for that long period of more than 10 years?

Bitcoin as an investment means that just like other investments like the real estate, there should be a higher chances of making profit in the future to be justified as an investment.

A sound investment will grow well. I am quite certain of that—provided that is indeed our objective. That is why so many people remain interested in BTC, despite its volatility. BTC has a clear concept and direction, and I am convinced that peer-to-peer electronic cash systems will become a preferred choice for many in the future, as they eliminate the need for third-party intermediaries. The network is open, allowing anyone to join or leave at any time.

[Abbatty]

Though profit is not guaranteed in a long-term investment, it is not wrong to expect making a profit after a long-term. Most investors in bitcoin do it for some major reasons which includes to protect the value of their money and also to make profit. So it is not wrong to want to make profit but what matters is, how soon do you want to make the profit? Did the investor also forget the aspect of protecting the value of their money? When a person gets too focused on profits, he gets distracted into investing beyond what he can allow until he will make profit. Let's not make it look like profit is not part of the deal because at the end if your investments does not bring profit, then what have you done for that long period of more than 10 years?

Bitcoin as an investment means that just like other investments like the real estate, there should be a higher chances of making profit in the future to be justified as an investment.

I get your point, thinking of profit when investing is never wrong, even when you are investing for a long period of time but then the big problem is how some of these investors allow that profit mindset changes their behavior. A folk can invest for the first 10 years and make profit but then in there 10 years now, because he had made profit he now begins to ignore the risks, some can even invest with more than their discretionary income.

Profit remains part of Bitcoin investment, but then real deal is if you can’t afford 6 years of losses then you don’t actually need to invest for a 10 years time frame, not because your investment plan is wrong but because timeframe is wrong.

At the end I would say if you invest for for a period of 10 years and it yield no profit, that not an investment but Saving with risk.

[Bigjoe33]

Profit remains part of Bitcoin investment, but then real deal is if you can’t afford 6 years of losses then you don’t actually need to invest for a 10 years time frame, not because your investment plan is wrong but because timeframe is wrong.

At the end I would say if you invest for for a period of 10 years and it yield no profit, that not an investment but Saving with risk.

You should know that in Bitcoin investment, profit is not a guarantee, yet we invest hopefully that it will hold to its characteristics of appreciation over a period of time. So, the assumption of making profits within a giving period of time should be disregarded so you don't get disappointed at the long run, since Nobody can for sure predict the price movement within the next moment.

Even though we proclaim that HODLing Bitcoin for 4-10years and above sounds like a long term investment plan, but we can't really be sure how long one needs to HODL before it could appreciate. Therefore, buying and HODLing for many circles, maybe 2-5 and /or continuous might be more better and appropriate, yet we can't still tell for sure is it may be rewarding by them. In essence, an expectation from Bitcoin to yeild you profit within a timeline might be misleading since it's price is not static and is always fluctuating due to different market forces.

[Frankolala]

Profit remains part of Bitcoin investment, but then real deal is if you can’t afford 6 years of losses then you don’t actually need to invest for a 10 years time frame, not because your investment plan is wrong but because timeframe is wrong.

At the end I would say if you invest for for a period of 10 years and it yield no profit, that not an investment but Saving with risk.

At least, even if there's no profit on your bitcoin investment for ten years, it's still better than keeping the money in fiat or saving it in the bank because your funds will lose its purchasing power overtime. Bitcoin preserves the value of your money and that alone shows that it better to put your discretionary income into bitcoin and build your bitcoin stash overtime. Profit is an additional benefits.

[Brizi5000]

Though profit is not guaranteed in a long-term investment, it is not wrong to expect making a profit after a long-term. Most investors in bitcoin do it for some major reasons which includes to protect the value of their money and also to make profit. So it is not wrong to want to make profit but what matters is, how soon do you want to make the profit? Did the investor also forget the aspect of protecting the value of their money? When a person gets too focused on profits, he gets distracted into investing beyond what he can allow until he will make profit. Let's not make it look like profit is not part of the deal because at the end if your investments does not bring profit, then what have you done for that long period of more than 10 years?

Bitcoin as an investment means that just like other investments like the real estate, there should be a higher chances of making profit in the future to be justified as an investment.

A sound investment will grow well. I am quite certain of that—provided that is indeed our objective. That is why so many people remain interested in BTC, despite its volatility. BTC has a clear concept and direction, and I am convinced that peer-to-peer electronic cash systems will become a preferred choice for many in the future, as they eliminate the need for third-party intermediaries. The network is open, allowing anyone to join or leave at any time.

Normally a sound investment is expected to do well provided that all the necessary ingredients and input needed for it to do well is in place. Of course BTC has the potential to build wealth But you see in bitcoin investment it’s quite not a traditionally reliable wealth creator due to its extremely volatile nature and so it’s largely a speculative asset and that’s why nothing is certain or guaranteed in bitcoin investments. Yea BTC has a clear concept but those are just concepts of which that doesn’t automatically makes it a sound investment and that’s why I’m finding it difficult to really fit BTC into a traditionally sound investment as you largely claimed, but albeit, I think that weather it’s a sound investment or not it depends on your level of risk tolerance and investment goal for long term.