JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas

[Proty]

What do you mean by safeguarding their previous investment, you mentioned it but didn't point out how you intend of doing so,  the best way to do so is to make sure your backup funds are in place, this can't happen right away so as an investor you have to do it gradually over time along side your investment, because the simple truth is that even though you make sure to pay your bills before you buy bitcoin you still can't call that safeguarding, not until you involve your emergency fund as having your emergency fund in place is one of the best ways to safeguard your investment.

I would like to note that even if you pay your bills from month to month, buy food and know approximately how much free money you have left for investing, then this is not the way to absolute confidence in studying your expenses, and as a result, the share of income that can be invested. I recommend taking a period of about a year to understand how much money will be spent each month, because every month has its own expenses, for example, like New Year's gifts. And only a general overview of spending during the year will give an understanding of how much free funds may remain, and based on this discretionary income, it will be possible to decide exactly What percentage of funds can be allocated for investment.

I should spend a year trying to figure out how much discretionary income I'm actually generating? I don't see how that will even make sense to you, I don't need all that time just do get a hold on how my expenses work so I can know how much of my money will go to my discretionary income, as long as my bills have been paid for then what's left is my discretionary income, of course from month to month my discretionary income will vary, I can't say I expect my expenses to be the same every month so it stands to reason that my discretionary income will fluctuate as well, all I have to do is to make sure that even with all that fluctuation my investment stays within my discretionary income, as long as I don't invest outside of it.

I don't think it should take up to a year before anyone can be able to figure out that they have discretionary income unless the person doesn't understand what discretionary income is. Monthly expenses is possible to varry and it won't be a wise decision for anyone to assume that there monthly expenses is a fixed amount, and then decide to map out the amount while using the rest for accumulating bitcoin. The chances that they will make the mistake of using money that is for their expenses to buy bitcoin is there since there monthly expenses isn't fixed. Therefore, before we buy bitcoin we should first of all settle our needs and whatever we have as left over cash can be used to buy bitcoin.

[ejikeme24]

No need for such complicated calculations, keep bearing your necessary expenses every month and after getting the next month's salary, see how much money is left in your fund, whatever is there is your discretionary money. When you allocate discretionary money at the beginning of the month after getting the salary. Then you may have to go through complicated calculations and investments may be made outside the discretionary money, because expenses are not stable and not expected.

It seems that you don't even understand what discretionary income is all about @Creeper0, your definition about discretionary income or how discretionary income is been generated is very confusing. There are other ways to explain how discretionary income is been generated and it will be very easy for everyone to understand, let's say you're working in a company and you get paid every month. Once your payment comes in, the first thing you should do is to figure out all your expenses such as electricity bills, house rent, your children school fees, and you will also have to carve out some money that you will use to get food stuffs that will serve you throughout the month. And also there are some other bills I didn't mention here which you are expected to clear them all.  then it is after you must have figured out all this things then the Left over money is your discretionary funds and inside the discretionary funds you will still have to create emergency funds and backup funds from it, then the remaining amount is what you will use to invest in bitcoin.

[BluebloodCXVI]

You ought to be looking at backup funds more from the angle of financial stability rather than only just protecting your bitcoin.

The main reasons why investors create backup funds is to be able to use it to deal with unexpected expenses without having to disrupt their investment. Protecting their bitcoin investment is simply just one of the benefits of having that cushion.

If a person’s monthly essential expenses is $1000, and they have already built a backup fund worth about $6000, then that means that they already have about 6months worth of backup funds and so if it happens that their income increases in that period, it’s not really necessary for them to keep increasing the backup fund to $10,000 or $15,000. They should first of all consider whether their expenses and financial responsibilities have also increased.

Once you have been able to build a reasonable safety net, you can go ahead and focus on putting any extra money you got into other financial goals like buying more bitcoin instead of constantly trying to increase backup fund all the time.

Your example is quite bad, especially since you did not describe the context, and you might even be implying that some newbie bitcoin investor might be in such a situation, which is not a good one and it seems to be way overweighted in cash.  Why is he keeping so much cash?  Does he have any bitcoin?
 
I cannot see very many situations in which guys should be keeping 6 months in cash unless they maybe have 1-2 years or more of their expenses invested in bitcoin, and even then 6 months worth of back up funds is likely way too much.

Brand new investors who might come to bitcoin and they might already have back up funds somewhere in the 4-weeks territory (so let's say that they have something like $1k in back up funds with $1k in monthly income and maybe a $20k per year income (which is $1,667 per month of income), then maybe they would build their bitcoin and their back up funds at the same time, and maybe it would take them a couple more years to get up to $3k expenses in cash.. if we assume that they are investing $222, saving (back up funds) $222 and discretionarily consuming $222.   In my example it is going to take them 9 months to get up to $3k of back up funds.

Don't get me wrong, a person surely could build up more than 3 months of back up funds, since frequently we consider the first three months of the back up funds to be emergency funds, and then they could have other reasons that they are saving up extra money.  Maybe they want to buy a new cell phone or a car or a motorcycle or they want to fix the roof on their house or maybe they want to save some money for buying the dip. 

There can surely be quite a few reasons to build up back up funds to more than 3 months, and even when we are first building up our back up funds, there might be times in which we have to tap into them since there might be pay periods that we are low on income and/or high on expenses, so we might have some periods that we tap into some of our back up funds and then we have to build it back up to where we believe it should be, so we could even have some lopsided growing in our bitcoin versus our back up funds, and after we have 4-ish weeks of back up funds, maybe we will skew our investment towards bitcoin and maybe with my earlier example, there will be a preference to put $350 per month into bitcoin and only $158.5 per month into back up funds and $158.5 per month into discretionary consumption.  These are judgement calls, and of course, the more uncertain and precarious the income and/or expenses situation, then the more back up funds will be needed to account for the uncertainties in the income/expenses.

Pardon me for not clarifying on the context of the example i gave.

I’m not trying to imply that every newbie bitcoin must keep $6k in cash or that six months worth of backup funds is the ideal amount for everybody before they can start to buy bitcoin.

My point is simple, if guys have already concluded on a specific backup fund target and along the line their income happens to increase, they don’t necessarily have to continue upping their backup fund target anymore if their expenses and financial responsibilities haven’t increased. They can simply divert that money into buying more bitcoin instead.

Now whether the six months worth of backup funds is too much, too little or just perfect is another story and it still depends on the person’s income stability, job security, responsibilities, expenses and risk tolerance.

To be more clear, i’m certainly in support of the fact that these are judgement calls that are left for the individual to make and perhaps some people might probably even need more than three months of expenses in reserve depending on their predicament.

[RockBell]

Consistency is very important in anything we want to do in life because it help us get better and grow but been consistency does not mean one will use a particular amount for their investment all the time because capacity can not be the same all the time or remain unchanged because whatsoever that is giving someone an income will either reduce or increase as time goes by, so whenever someone income is been affected whether negatively or positively their capacity changes and so will their investment. anyone who invest beyond their capacity will always be liken to a trader or gambler.

The idea of investing is nice, but the execution is always the problem because when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, you have to be prepared for a lot of things so that when some challenges start to arise in the future, you will know what you expect, so we need to be prepared. Consistency is simply the way out, and there is no other reason why you would not want to be consistent when you already know.

People should take action to ensure they have the understanding because investing in Bitcoin requires a great deal of preparation, and they don't even know what you are buying.  Additionally, a lot of people don't know what to do when it comes to bitcoin investments since they don't know why they would want to invest. don't know what you are investing in. And even if it takes time it is better to understand exactly what you are doing.

[Sally9256]

Consistency is very important in anything we want to do in life because it help us get better and grow but been consistency does not mean one will use a particular amount for their investment all the time because capacity can not be the same all the time or remain unchanged because whatsoever that is giving someone an income will either reduce or increase as time goes by, so whenever someone income is been affected whether negatively or positively their capacity changes and so will their investment. anyone who invest beyond their capacity will always be liken to a trader or gambler.

The idea of investing is nice, but the execution is always the problem because when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, you have to be prepared for a lot of things so that when some challenges start to arise in the future, you will know what you expect, so we need to be prepared. Consistency is simply the way out, and there is no other reason why you would not want to be consistent when you already know.

People should take action to ensure they have the understanding because investing in Bitcoin requires a great deal of preparation, and they don't even know what you are buying.  Additionally, a lot of people don't know what to do when it comes to bitcoin investments since they don't know why they would want to invest. don't know what you are investing in. And even if it takes time it is better to understand exactly what you are doing.

I just find it Odd when you talk about consistency and not mention Discipline. Consistency plays a huge part in a successful investment but Discipline is what keeps you consistent. Bitcoin  is a Volatile asset and with that only for those that are discipline can really invest for a long period of time.

So to be consistent and discipline you need to make sure you invest with your discretionary income, with that you can set aside a particular amount to begin your investment journey.

Being it a long time investment, or even a trader discipline is what will makes you successful, not just in Bitcoin investment, but in life entirely.

[Grease5000]

No need for such complicated calculations, keep bearing your necessary expenses every month and after getting the next month's salary, see how much money is left in your fund, whatever is there is your discretionary money. When you allocate discretionary money at the beginning of the month after getting the salary. Then you may have to go through complicated calculations and investments may be made outside the discretionary money, because expenses are not stable and not expected.

It seems that you don't even understand what discretionary income is all about @Creeper0, your definition about discretionary income or how discretionary income is been generated is very confusing. There are other ways to explain how discretionary income is been generated and it will be very easy for everyone to understand, let's say you're working in a company and you get paid every month. Once your payment comes in, the first thing you should do is to figure out all your expenses such as electricity bills, house rent, your children school fees, and you will also have to carve out some money that you will use to get food stuffs that will serve you throughout the month. And also there are some other bills I didn't mention here which you are expected to clear them all.  then it is after you must have figured out all this things then the Left over money is your discretionary funds and inside the discretionary funds you will still have to create emergency funds and backup funds from it, then the remaining amount is what you will use to invest in bitcoin.

You have said it all @ejikeme, because can only know how much discretionary income you have after you might have taken care of your essentials needs and even that  you are not expected to use all of the remaining money to buy bitcoin you still needs to create an emergency fund and back up  fund for unexpected needs.

For me the goal is simple I invest what i can comfortably leave untouched, not whatever I hope will be left at the end of the month.

[B-BossMan]

[edited out]

A long-term investor can buy at any time. There is no mistake in buying. A long-term investor can buy at any time and if he holds it for a long time, then the possibility of his loss is very less. For example, if we look from the past to the present, the person who has been able to hold it at the lowest level of the long-term for 4 years has not faced any loss so far, if he had bought at the highest price at that time, then even at the current price he has not faced any loss.

A person who does trading or short-term investment often faces loss as a result of buying. The problem that often arises as a result of buying is that we invest outside our discretionary income and as a result we are forced to sell the investment before the end of the period. Due to this wrong decision, long-term investors often face loss.

Sure, if you are presuming 4-10 years  or longer, and you are presuming 4 years to be the lowest end of long term, then what are the circumstances of such thinking?  You sound like you are trying to get in and out of bitcoin based on your being in profits rather than really thinking about bitcoin as a long term investment rather than a trade, which might be why you spent so much of your post agonizing over the likelihood that bitcoin holdings are in profits after a guy had merely been in bitcoin for 4 years.

By the way, if a person had lump sum bought bitcoin 4 years ago and then had been just sitting on his lump sum buy, then what is the purpose in that?  On the other hand, maybe he lump sum bought 4 years ago, while at the same time he continued to buy bitcoin for the next 4 years, so then he has some of his holdings that are 4 years old, but then he has a bunch of scattered out buys in the last 4 years and some of them are 3 years old, some are 2 years old some are 1 year old and some are less than 1 year old. 

Are you trying to suggest that the 4 year guy can just think about his whole bitcoin stash as being 4 years old merely because he started buying bitcoin 4 years ago?  I have doubts about whether you have really given very much insightful thinking about the practicalities of accumulating bitcoin for 4 years for any guys who might be coming into their 4 year timeline of having had been involved in bitcoin.

That's if I may look at it in different or sensible ways, like, someone's bitcoin investment journey should  be determine by  the history of individual's bitcoin purchases, not really mean the date they started at first market entry. Those that started 4 years back could have a huge different positions from thos that lump-sum amounts just a day and no bother to buy an additional continuously, that's why I do preferred regular buying or accumulations, because it they must experience different price entries, so the stacking experiences different types of riske and prices cycle along the way. That's why those that are chasing short-term profit seems distracted all the time. Moreover no matrr how its, whether the person has good pla s for accumulating bitcoin and holding for 4 years, be managing the risks in it and the person eventually using the assets, 4 years is good. But advisablelly, holding it for long-term at least 8-10 years is much more better.

[JayJuanGee]

You ought to be looking at backup funds more from the angle of financial stability rather than only just protecting your bitcoin.

The main reasons why investors create backup funds is to be able to use it to deal with unexpected expenses without having to disrupt their investment. Protecting their bitcoin investment is simply just one of the benefits of having that cushion.

If a person’s monthly essential expenses is $1000, and they have already built a backup fund worth about $6000, then that means that they already have about 6months worth of backup funds and so if it happens that their income increases in that period, it’s not really necessary for them to keep increasing the backup fund to $10,000 or $15,000. They should first of all consider whether their expenses and financial responsibilities have also increased.

Once you have been able to build a reasonable safety net, you can go ahead and focus on putting any extra money you got into other financial goals like buying more bitcoin instead of constantly trying to increase backup fund all the time.

Your example is quite bad, especially since you did not describe the context, and you might even be implying that some newbie bitcoin investor might be in such a situation, which is not a good one and it seems to be way overweighted in cash.  Why is he keeping so much cash?  Does he have any bitcoin?
 
I cannot see very many situations in which guys should be keeping 6 months in cash unless they maybe have 1-2 years or more of their expenses invested in bitcoin, and even then 6 months worth of back up funds is likely way too much.

Brand new investors who might come to bitcoin and they might already have back up funds somewhere in the 4-weeks territory (so let's say that they have something like $1k in back up funds with $1k in monthly income and maybe a $20k per year income (which is $1,667 per month of income), then maybe they would build their bitcoin and their back up funds at the same time, and maybe it would take them a couple more years to get up to $3k expenses in cash.. if we assume that they are investing $222, saving (back up funds) $222 and discretionarily consuming $222.   In my example it is going to take them 9 months to get up to $3k of back up funds.

Don't get me wrong, a person surely could build up more than 3 months of back up funds, since frequently we consider the first three months of the back up funds to be emergency funds, and then they could have other reasons that they are saving up extra money.  Maybe they want to buy a new cell phone or a car or a motorcycle or they want to fix the roof on their house or maybe they want to save some money for buying the dip. 

There can surely be quite a few reasons to build up back up funds to more than 3 months, and even when we are first building up our back up funds, there might be times in which we have to tap into them since there might be pay periods that we are low on income and/or high on expenses, so we might have some periods that we tap into some of our back up funds and then we have to build it back up to where we believe it should be, so we could even have some lopsided growing in our bitcoin versus our back up funds, and after we have 4-ish weeks of back up funds, maybe we will skew our investment towards bitcoin and maybe with my earlier example, there will be a preference to put $350 per month into bitcoin and only $158.5 per month into back up funds and $158.5 per month into discretionary consumption.  These are judgement calls, and of course, the more uncertain and precarious the income and/or expenses situation, then the more back up funds will be needed to account for the uncertainties in the income/expenses.

Pardon me for not clarifying on the context of the example i gave.

I’m not trying to imply that every newbie bitcoin must keep $6k in cash or that six months worth of backup funds is the ideal amount for everybody before they can start to buy bitcoin.

My point is simple, if guys have already concluded on a specific backup fund target and along the line their income happens to increase, they don’t necessarily have to continue upping their backup fund target anymore if their expenses and financial responsibilities haven’t increased. They can simply divert that money into buying more bitcoin instead.

Now whether the six months worth of backup funds is too much, too little or just perfect is another story and it still depends on the person’s income stability, job security, responsibilities, expenses and risk tolerance.

Bullshit.  I already explained that 6 months is too much, and even 3 months is a lot.

You need to describe some situation in which 6 months makes sense, otherwise we are sticking with 3 months as being a guideline, especially if many guys may well still be in their early stages of building up their bitcoin holdings.

Now if you are talking about someone who has already built up bitcoin holdings and perhaps other investments, then it might make sense to have 6 months of up funds, but I still doubt it.. since why the fuck they have so much value that is not in bitcoin?

Give me an example?  Otherwise, the 6 months makes little to no sense as a presumptive amount to have in back up funds, except that you have been listening to mainstream financial managers who seem to want to keep people poor.  If you have 6 months in cash, you are going to never have anything else because it tends to take a long time to build up 6 months in cash, and then it is losing value as fast as you can keep adding to it.

It makes no sense to talk about 6 months or refer to 6 months as it is normal, except that you have been listening to too many mainstream financial advisors, and that is not what this thread is about.  We are not talking about mainstream financial bullshit, since we are talking about bitcoin in this thread, and especially my ideas related to bitcoin investing, and my ideas are that there are hardly any reasons to be talking about having 6 months of cash as if it were normal.. and you better get some of that value into bitcoin if you want to be considered as a bitcoin investor rather than someone who is not serious and distracted by cash.

To be more clear, i’m certainly in support of the fact that these are judgement calls that are left for the individual to make and perhaps some people might probably even need more than three months of expenses in reserve depending on their predicament.

Yeah of course there are some examples that it could possibly be the case that some bitcoiners might need more than 3 months of cash, yet it seems like outlier situations, especially if we are trying to be serious about investing in bitcoin and figuring out how to prioritize our bitcoin investment rather than getting distracted into thinking that we need to build up a bunch of cash, absent some actual compelling reason to be doing so. 

So tell me.  What is that compelling reason that you are hypothesizing about, and is it normal? or is it better to stick to prioritizing bitcoin and building bitcoin and back up funds together?

[edited out]

A long-term investor can buy at any time. There is no mistake in buying. A long-term investor can buy at any time and if he holds it for a long time, then the possibility of his loss is very less. For example, if we look from the past to the present, the person who has been able to hold it at the lowest level of the long-term for 4 years has not faced any loss so far, if he had bought at the highest price at that time, then even at the current price he has not faced any loss.

A person who does trading or short-term investment often faces loss as a result of buying. The problem that often arises as a result of buying is that we invest outside our discretionary income and as a result we are forced to sell the investment before the end of the period. Due to this wrong decision, long-term investors often face loss.

Sure, if you are presuming 4-10 years  or longer, and you are presuming 4 years to be the lowest end of long term, then what are the circumstances of such thinking?  You sound like you are trying to get in and out of bitcoin based on your being in profits rather than really thinking about bitcoin as a long term investment rather than a trade, which might be why you spent so much of your post agonizing over the likelihood that bitcoin holdings are in profits after a guy had merely been in bitcoin for 4 years.

By the way, if a person had lump sum bought bitcoin 4 years ago and then had been just sitting on his lump sum buy, then what is the purpose in that?  On the other hand, maybe he lump sum bought 4 years ago, while at the same time he continued to buy bitcoin for the next 4 years, so then he has some of his holdings that are 4 years old, but then he has a bunch of scattered out buys in the last 4 years and some of them are 3 years old, some are 2 years old some are 1 year old and some are less than 1 year old. 

Are you trying to suggest that the 4 year guy can just think about his whole bitcoin stash as being 4 years old merely because he started buying bitcoin 4 years ago?  I have doubts about whether you have really given very much insightful thinking about the practicalities of accumulating bitcoin for 4 years for any guys who might be coming into their 4 year timeline of having had been involved in bitcoin.

That's if I may look at it in different or sensible ways, like, someone's bitcoin investment journey should  be determine by  the history of individual's bitcoin purchases, not really mean the date they started at first market entry. Those that started 4 years back could have a huge different positions from thos that lump-sum amounts just a day and no bother to buy an additional continuously, that's why I do preferred regular buying or accumulations, because it they must experience different price entries, so the stacking experiences different types of riske and prices cycle along the way. That's why those that are chasing short-term profit seems distracted all the time. Moreover no matrr how its, whether the person has good pla s for accumulating bitcoin and holding for 4 years, be managing the risks in it and the person eventually using the assets, 4 years is good. But advisablelly, holding it for long-term at least 8-10 years is much more better.

There are not going to be too many guys who are able to front load their bitcoin investment, so it tends to take time to build up a position, and even if a guy comes to bitcoin and he had already built up 2 years or more of his expenses in some other investments, and he is wanting to reallocate a decent proportion of that into bitcoin, it still is likely going to take him a while to accomplish that reallocation into bitcoin. Sure, maybe you can come up with some examples of guys who are able to invest faster than that, yet it does not seem to be that common, so therefore, a lot of guys tend to take time to build up their bitcoin position.

Do you have some example of a guy who might be able to stop stacking in less than a whole cycle? Maybe describe those circumstances? It does not sound very typical, even though, sure, it could happen.

[Joeboy]

~snip~

The idea of investing is nice, but the execution is always the problem because when it comes to investing in Bitcoin, you have to be prepared for a lot of things so that when some challenges start to arise in the future, you will know what you expect, so we need to be prepared. Consistency is simply the way out, and there is no other reason why you would not want to be consistent when you already know.

People should take action to ensure they have the understanding because investing in Bitcoin requires a great deal of preparation, and they don't even know what you are buying.  Additionally, a lot of people don't know what to do when it comes to bitcoin investments since they don't know why they would want to invest. don't know what you are investing in. And even if it takes time it is better to understand exactly what you are doing.

What preparation are you talking about? It obvious that you yourself may be confused about how simple starting out an investment really is...At the start of your investment journey, the only basic thing that folks need is to be able to figure out is their Discretionary income, and with that they can very well start and as they gook, they could very well get every other thing sorted out...There is obviously no reason for making this silly excuses about needing to have everything figured out before investing... In the process of your investment, your financial situation will continue to change as you go, same as your understanding of Bitcoin, so you waiting to get everything sorted out can easily mean you postponing your investment indefinitely, and there is absolutely no sense in that

Just have your discretionary income and you can begin with any amount that fits your cashflow and gradually make adjustments to your investment, as your income and/or expenses changes...

[ultrloa]

Pardon me for not clarifying on the context of the example i gave.

I’m not trying to imply that every newbie bitcoin must keep $6k in cash or that six months worth of backup funds is the ideal amount for everybody before they can start to buy bitcoin.

My point is simple, if guys have already concluded on a specific backup fund target and along the line their income happens to increase, they don’t necessarily have to continue upping their backup fund target anymore if their expenses and financial responsibilities haven’t increased. They can simply divert that money into buying more bitcoin instead.

Now whether the six months worth of backup funds is too much, too little or just perfect is another story and it still depends on the person’s income stability, job security, responsibilities, expenses and risk tolerance.

Bullshit.  I already explained that 6 months is too much, and even 3 months is a lot.

You need to describe some situation in which 6 months makes sense, otherwise we are sticking with 3 months as being a guideline, especially if many guys may well still be in their early stages of building up their bitcoin holdings.

Now if you are talking about someone who has already built up bitcoin holdings and perhaps other investments, then it might make sense to have 6 months of up funds, but I still doubt it.. since why the fuck they have so much value that is not in bitcoin?

Give me an example?  Otherwise, the 6 months makes little to no sense as a presumptive amount to have in back up funds, except that you have been listening to mainstream financial managers who seem to want to keep people poor.  If you have 6 months in cash, you are going to never have anything else because it tends to take a long time to build up 6 months in cash, and then it is losing value as fast as you can keep adding to it.

It makes no sense to talk about 6 months or refer to 6 months as it is normal, except that you have been listening to too many mainstream financial advisors, and that is not what this thread is about.  We are not talking about mainstream financial bullshit, since we are talking about bitcoin in this thread, and especially my ideas related to bitcoin investing, and my ideas are that there are hardly any reasons to be talking about having 6 months of cash as if it were normal.. and you better get some of that value into bitcoin if you want to be considered as a bitcoin investor rather than someone who is not serious and distracted by cash.

Somehow what you have said really have sense. Because that 6 months of cash is only applicable on especial cases, especially for those people have unstable income like seasonal workers and freelancer or those people something expect that big expenses might come in future and they don't want to liquidate their Bitcoin holding especially if there's market is not in good condition.

Outside from that is truly unnecessary. 3 months is already enough and I also think practical because it can already cover those short term issues happened in their lives while they can focus on much bigger things, especially on their Bitcoin accumulation.

That 6 months rule is just for those old timer which can cause people to get stuck on their depreciating cash.

On Bitcoin we should priority stacking sats and not trying to build a dead money because we are going to lose due to inflation if we focus on that matters.

[Sim_card]

I cannot see very many situations in which guys should be keeping 6 months in cash unless they maybe have 1-2 years or more of their expenses invested in bitcoin, and even then 6 months worth of back up funds is likely way too much.

Brand new investors who might come to bitcoin and they might already have back up funds somewhere in the 4-weeks territory (so let's say that they have something like $1k in back up funds with $1k in monthly income and maybe a $20k per year income (which is $1,667 per month of income), then maybe they would build their bitcoin and their back up funds at the same time, and maybe it would take them a couple more years to get up to $3k expenses in cash.. if we assume that they are investing $222, saving (back up funds) $222 and
Bullshit.  I already explained that 6 months is too much, and even 3 months is a lot.

You need to describe some situation in which 6 months makes sense, otherwise we are sticking with 3 months as being a guideline, especially if many guys may well still be in their early stages of building up their bitcoin holdings.

Now if you are talking about someone who has already built up bitcoin holdings and perhaps other investments, then it might make sense to have 6 months of up funds, but I still doubt it.. since why the fuck they have so much value that is not in bitcoin?

Give me an example?  Otherwise, the 6 months makes little to no sense as a presumptive amount to have in back up funds, except that you have been listening to mainstream financial managers who seem to want to keep people poor.  If you have 6 months in cash, you are going to never have anything else because it tends to take a long time to build up 6 months in cash, and then it is losing value as fast as you can keep adding to it.

It makes no sense to talk about 6 months or refer to 6 months as it is normal, except that you have been listening to too many mainstream financial advisors, and that is not what this thread is about.  We are not talking about mainstream financial bullshit, since we are talking about bitcoin in this thread, and especially my ideas related to bitcoin investing, and my ideas are that there are hardly any reasons to be talking about having 6 months of cash as if it were normal.. and you better get some of that value into bitcoin if you want to be considered as a bitcoin investor rather than someone who is not serious and distracted by cash.

I agree with everything that you said. Some people thinks that it's easy to pile up six months of their monthly expenses forgetting that as a new investor there should be balance between your discretionary income and your emergency funds in the beginning and when you emergency funds is already up to three months of their monthly expenses, they should focus more on building their bitcoin portfolio overtime because it is a store of value.

It will even take a year or more to build an emergency funds of three months of your expenses and that's already a long time to pile up Fiat. The main purpose of investing is to build a good financial background for your future when you are already old and can no longer work to earn. Building your emergency funds up to 6 months can defeat that because it will definitely affect the growth pace of your bitcoin investment. Some investors will involve themselves in practices that wouldn't help in boosting their bitcoin stash because they're so tied down with keeping too much cash with them.

[Showlove01]

What do you mean by safeguarding their previous investment, you mentioned it but didn't point out how you intend of doing so,  the best way to do so is to make sure your backup funds are in place, this can't happen right away so as an investor you have to do it gradually over time along side your investment, because the simple truth is that even though you make sure to pay your bills before you buy bitcoin you still can't call that safeguarding, not until you involve your emergency fund as having your emergency fund in place is one of the best ways to safeguard your investment.

I would like to note that even if you pay your bills from month to month, buy food and know approximately how much free money you have left for investing, then this is not the way to absolute confidence in studying your expenses, and as a result, the share of income that can be invested. I recommend taking a period of about a year to understand how much money will be spent each month, because every month has its own expenses, for example, like New Year's gifts. And only a general overview of spending during the year will give an understanding of how much free funds may remain, and based on this discretionary income, it will be possible to decide exactly What percentage of funds can be allocated for investment.

I should spend a year trying to figure out how much discretionary income I'm actually generating? I don't see how that will even make sense to you, I don't need all that time just do get a hold on how my expenses work so I can know how much of my money will go to my discretionary income, as long as my bills have been paid for then what's left is my discretionary income, of course from month to month my discretionary income will vary, I can't say I expect my expenses to be the same every month so it stands to reason that my discretionary income will fluctuate as well, all I have to do is to make sure that even with all that fluctuation my investment stays within my discretionary income, as long as I don't invest outside of it.

I don't think it should take up to a year before anyone can be able to figure out that they have discretionary income unless the person doesn't understand what discretionary income is. Monthly expenses is possible to varry and it won't be a wise decision for anyone to assume that there monthly expenses is a fixed amount, and then decide to map out the amount while using the rest for accumulating bitcoin. The chances that they will make the mistake of using money that is for their expenses to buy bitcoin is there since there monthly expenses isn't fixed. Therefore, before we buy bitcoin we should first of all settle our needs and whatever we have as left over cash can be used to buy bitcoin.

This sound very funny, how will it take someone a year to be able to sort a discretionary income that automatically means that the folk does not know what he is doing or what discretionary income is. but for those who do not have a good source of income and the money they earn is not reasonable enough, i can understand them but for someone who has a good source of income and it is taking the person a year to sort out their discretionary, it means they are not interested about the investment.

[Sticky Bomb]

People should take action to ensure they have the understanding because investing in Bitcoin requires a great deal of preparation

I doubt bitcoin investment needs a whole lot of preparation. In bitcoin investment you only need to identify to having discretionary income and knowing how to buy, these are not lots of preparation, it's basic preparation. You don't need a lot of capital to invest into bitcoin as well, you can start small using DCA strategy and follow-up your investment buys with consistency still configured according to your own timelines and availability of your discretionary income. DCA is configurable even to those that have irregular cashflow as long as they buy when discretionary income is available and are consistent with it. Bitcoin is also for the rich and poor alike and anybody with discretionary income can invest, even if it is as small as $10.

It is a wrong assertion that you have to prepare for a long time before buying your first bitcoin because as soon as you have discretionary income, you're all set to buy your first bitcoin. You don't need to delay your investment because of excessive preparation, that would be unnecessary time wasting. A time which you would've used take advantage of nice buying opportunities and keep advancing in your accumulation journey.

[Big Dirams]

You have said it all @ejikeme, because can only know how much discretionary income you have after you might have taken care of your essentials needs and even that  you are not expected to use all of the remaining money to buy bitcoin you still needs to create an emergency fund and back up  fund for unexpected needs.

For me the goal is simple I invest what i can comfortably leave untouched, not whatever I hope will be left at the end of the month.

There isn’t any fixed amount of discretionary income to invest in bitcoin it just what we can afford to loss. And using our discretionary income doesn’t mean we should invest all, it all depends on us because there might be some unnecessary expenses we need to get done so it all depends on the investor to choose how much they are investing during that time.

And about our emergency funds, it shouldn’t be an obstacle to put a pause to our investment journey, if we can’t afford to pull out emergency funds at that time then no need to wait at all we can begin our journey with discretionary income. The discretionary income is the main pillar that can stop our journey and emergency funds can come in during the journey but we need to make it the sole priority as soon as we starts the journey because that the adjective that holds the investment firmly in the ground.
As soon as the journey begins then we should find other alternatives and get our emergency funds.

[samadam007]

This sound very funny, how will it take someone a year to be able to sort a discretionary income that automatically means that the folk does not know what he is doing or what discretionary income is. but for those who do not have a good source of income and the money they earn is not reasonable enough, i can understand them but for someone who has a good source of income and it is taking the person a year to sort out their discretionary, it means they are not interested about the investment.

Figuring out your discretionary income is simply looking at what you earn, taking out your necessary expenses and other obligations, then making use of what is left.
The very moment a person does this, then he is ready to kickstart his accumulation journey.

Having large income isn’t a criteria, someone that doesn’t earn much can still figure out discretionary income very quick. The amount may be little , but they can still know what is left after taking care of their basic needs. If they have something left, then they can use part of it to start buying Bitcoin.

You shouldn’t assume that good income automatically means large discretionary income. Everyone has different financial responsibilities, it will even surprise you that the low earner may end up with bigger amount left to invest compared to his high earning friend. That’s why I said that folks should just start accumulating regardless of how much they earn.
The important thing is for investors not to go beyond what they can comfortably afford.

[Grease5000]

You have said it all @ejikeme, because can only know how much discretionary income you have after you might have taken care of your essentials needs and even that  you are not expected to use all of the remaining money to buy bitcoin you still needs to create an emergency fund and back up  fund for unexpected needs.

For me the goal is simple I invest what i can comfortably leave untouched, not whatever I hope will be left at the end of the month.

There isn’t any fixed amount of discretionary income to invest in bitcoin it just what we can afford to loss. And using our discretionary income doesn’t mean we should invest all, it all depends on us because there might be some unnecessary expenses we need to get done so it all depends on the investor to choose how much they are investing during that time.

And about our emergency funds, it shouldn’t be an obstacle to put a pause to our investment journey, if we can’t afford to pull out emergency funds at that time then no need to wait at all we can begin our journey with discretionary income. The discretionary income is the main pillar that can stop our journey and emergency funds can come in during the journey but we need to make it the sole priority as soon as we starts the journey because that the adjective that holds the investment firmly in the ground.
As soon as the journey begins then we should find other alternatives and get our emergency funds.

I you misunderstood my point never mentioned about a particular fixed amount to be invested rather I wanted to let you know that discretionary income is not meant for bitcoin investment alone, rather  after settling all necessary needs, that remaining money can be shared between  building an emergency fund, creating a backup and accumulation of bitcoin at the same time.

And in Bitcoin investment  you buy Bitcoin using  only discretionary income (that is money left after one has settled all their essentials need ) that is money that you can leave  invested not money you can afford to lose, because using the term  "money one can afford to lose make it sound  like a short term trading or gamble rather than investing.

[Cgrexp]

I you misunderstood my point never mentioned about a particular fixed amount to be invested rather I wanted to let you know that discretionary income is not meant for bitcoin investment alone, rather  after settling all necessary needs, that remaining money can be shared between  building an emergency fund, creating a backup and accumulation of bitcoin at the same time.

And in Bitcoin investment  you buy Bitcoin using  only discretionary income (that is money left after one has settled all their essentials need ) that is money that you can leave  invested not money you can afford to lose, because using the term  "money one can afford to lose make it sound  like a short term trading or gamble rather than investing.

There are people who are already quite disorganized with their personal finances. And they can benefit if they spend some time getting their personal finances in order. So that they can really determine how much discretionary funds they have and how much they want to keep for investments, ancillary funds, and discretionary spending. Many people are disorganized with their finances and that is why they can’t start investing in Bitcoin. Until they realize that they have extra money to spend, they need to decide how much money they are going to start with and if they make a mistake, are they only starting with an amount they are willing to lose, even if they don’t plan on losing it. Practice helps with this kind of thing, and most adults already have this skill, although it may take some practice to make sure they don’t start investing with an amount they can’t afford to lose.

[SPIDERMAN008]

People should take action to ensure they have the understanding because investing in Bitcoin requires a great deal of preparation

I doubt bitcoin investment needs a whole lot of preparation. In bitcoin investment you only need to identify to having discretionary income and knowing how to buy, these are not lots of preparation, it's basic preparation. You don't need a lot of capital to invest into bitcoin as well, you can start small using DCA strategy and follow-up your investment buys with consistency still configured according to your own timelines and availability of your discretionary income. DCA is configurable even to those that have irregular cashflow as long as they buy when discretionary income is available and are consistent with it. Bitcoin is also for the rich and poor alike and anybody with discretionary income can invest, even if it is as small as $10.

It is a wrong assertion that you have to prepare for a long time before buying your first bitcoin because as soon as you have discretionary income, you're all set to buy your first bitcoin. You don't need to delay your investment because of excessive preparation, that would be unnecessary time wasting. A time which you would've used take advantage of nice buying opportunities and keep advancing in your accumulation journey.

But the real question here is, does the person understand what is discretionary money? Suppose someone has $100 in their hand after paying for necessary expenses, but that is their entire cash balance and there is nothing else to use in case of an unexpected expense in the next two weeks. Then you can't just put the entire $100 in Bitcoin and say that it was discretionary income. Part of common sense is to have some cash cushion and not buy Bitcoin in a way that will cause problems if the slightest expense increase. If you have discretionary income, there is no need for much preparation, but you should not invest in a financial reckless way. And I agree with you. If $10 is your reasonable starting amount, then there is no problem in starting with $10. Later, when income, discretionary funds and cashflow are strong, the amount can be increased.

[Abbatty]

But the real question here is, does the person understand what is discretionary money? Suppose someone has $100 in their hand after paying for necessary expenses, but that is their entire cash balance and there is nothing else to use in case of an unexpected expense in the next two weeks. Then you can't just put the entire $100 in Bitcoin and say that it was discretionary income. Part of common sense is to have some cash cushion and not buy Bitcoin in a way that will cause problems if the slightest expense increase. If you have discretionary income, there is no need for much preparation, but you should not invest in a financial reckless way. And I agree with you. If $10 is your reasonable starting amount, then there is no problem in starting with $10. Later, when income, discretionary funds and cashflow are strong, the amount can be increased.

Don’t get yourself confused, if after spending on all necessary needs and want and a folk have $100, that his/her discretionary income, and the person can decide if to invest all on bitcoin or if he can invest just a little and from there he can decide to build both emergency and reserve funds, but it a matter of how he wants to do it.

So it not a matter of common sense but preference. All investment have a certain target so some might give themselves a certain timeframe to reach such target, so investing little by little might not be the way for some people.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Somehow what you have said really have sense. Because that 6 months of cash is only applicable on especial cases, especially for those people have unstable income like seasonal workers and freelancer or those people something expect that big expenses might come in future and they don't want to liquidate their Bitcoin holding especially if there's market is not in good condition.

Outside from that is truly unnecessary. 3 months is already enough and I also think practical because it can already cover those short term issues happened in their lives while they can focus on much bigger things, especially on their Bitcoin accumulation.

That 6 months rule is just for those old timer which can cause people to get stuck on their depreciating cash.

On Bitcoin we should priority stacking sats and not trying to build a dead money because we are going to lose due to inflation if we focus on that matters.

I am not sure if it is fair to characterize the 6 month rule as an "old timer" rule, even though surely it could be the case that in historical times, the dollar was being devalued at a rate that was slower than it has been being devalued in recent times, so there might not have had been as much risk to hold onto larger portions of cash.  Also, in the old days, there were places to put cash and to receive "fair returns" yet it should have had become more and more obvious that the dollar and other fiat currencies are being devalued at a greater and greater rate, which causes it to be less and less justifiable to be holding large quantities of cash, absent some justifiable situations like the examples that you gave, @ultrloa.

In other words, many folks have wrong understanding of cash, even though on the surface, many folks recognize and appreciate that their cash buys them less and less with the passage of time, yet so many folks are mislead into thinking that there is value in holding onto cash.

Of course, in this thread, we emphasize trying to grow our cash and our bitcoin at the same time, or at least at a similar rate, so even if we might emphasize in one direction or another (based on our life circumstances), we should be paying attention to how we are growing each, and for sure, at some point maybe our bitcoin portion is growing more than our cash portion, especially once our cash gets up to certain levels that might be exceeding 3 months of our expenses.   And, I am not even opposed to continuing to grow our cash side once we are beyond 3 months of our expenses, especially if we have reasons for doing so and at the same time ongoingly contributing to the bitcoin side, too. 

Once the cash side starts getting into the 4-5 months or greater of our expenses, we may well need to diversify some of that into assets and perhaps trying to maintain its liquidity and its lack of volatility... and of course, at that point when our cash reserves are growing high and our bitcoin stash amount is growing high, we are maybe starting to give some thoughts to diversification which is both practical and optional at the same time.

I you misunderstood my point never mentioned about a particular fixed amount to be invested rather I wanted to let you know that discretionary income is not meant for bitcoin investment alone, rather  after settling all necessary needs, that remaining money can be shared between  building an emergency fund, creating a backup and accumulation of bitcoin at the same time.

And in Bitcoin investment  you buy Bitcoin using  only discretionary income (that is money left after one has settled all their essentials need ) that is money that you can leave  invested not money you can afford to lose, because using the term  "money one can afford to lose make it sound  like a short term trading or gamble rather than investing.

There are people who are already quite disorganized with their personal finances. And they can benefit if they spend some time getting their personal finances in order. So that they can really determine how much discretionary funds they have and how much they want to keep for investments, ancillary funds, and discretionary spending.

It is one thing for a newbie to be so disorganized that he cannot figure out the extent to which he has discretionary funds or a person who is merely disorganized.

In other words, if a person can figure out that he has discretionary funds, yet at the same time he is very disorganized, then he does not need to become organized prior to getting started investing in bitcoin.

Don't get me wrong. I am not promoting being disorganized or even lacking knowledge, since it is my own thoughts that guys who invest in bitcoin are likely to have reasons (and incentives) to become more organized and more knowledgable about both bitcoin and about their cashflow management systems/practices.

Of course, there are going to be some guys who get started investing into bitcoin and they remain lazy and lacking in desire to either learn or to better organize themselves, and those kinds of people are likely ongoingly putting themselves at risk through their not spending time and energy to learn and to organize themselves.  So, if they end up losing some or all of their bitcoin due to their lack of putting time and/or energy into it, then that is on them and they have to live with the consequences.  There tends to be value in taking responsibility, and some people will let their emotions get in the way and their inabilities to focus get in the way, and it is on them to improve on those attributes if they want to improve their chances of being successful in managing their bitcoin and their finances.

Another way of saying the same thing is that bitcoin newbies don't need to have a lot of attributes prior to getting started beyond merely being able to figure out that they have discretionary funds, and otherwise they can start investing in bitcoin from wherever they might happen to be at the time that they get started, and if they want to improve the odds that their bitcoin investment will be successful, then it is good to both organize themselves and to learn while they are investing.

Many people are disorganized with their finances and that is why they can’t start investing in Bitcoin. Until they realize that they have extra money to spend, they need to decide how much money they are going to start with and if they make a mistake, are they only starting with an amount they are willing to lose, even if they don’t plan on losing it. Practice helps with this kind of thing, and most adults already have this skill, although it may take some practice to make sure they don’t start investing with an amount they can’t afford to lose.

Your points are confusing here, @Cgrexp.  Mere disorganization should not stop any bitcoin newbie from being able to start buying bitcoin if they have discretionary funds.  And, yeah, there are abilities to learn from practice, which is a good justification to get started buying bitcoin as soon as a person realizes that he has discretionary funds, and surely newbies may well have to moderate their beginning position size based on their lack of organization, lack of knowledge, lack of skills, but they can use their best judgement to get started slowly and have bitcoin as an excuse to improve themselves in the various areas that they might already realize that they are lacking.

People should take action to ensure they have the understanding because investing in Bitcoin requires a great deal of preparation

I doubt bitcoin investment needs a whole lot of preparation. In bitcoin investment you only need to identify to having discretionary income and knowing how to buy, these are not lots of preparation, it's basic preparation. You don't need a lot of capital to invest into bitcoin as well, you can start small using DCA strategy and follow-up your investment buys with consistency still configured according to your own timelines and availability of your discretionary income. DCA is configurable even to those that have irregular cashflow as long as they buy when discretionary income is available and are consistent with it. Bitcoin is also for the rich and poor alike and anybody with discretionary income can invest, even if it is as small as $10.

It is a wrong assertion that you have to prepare for a long time before buying your first bitcoin because as soon as you have discretionary income, you're all set to buy your first bitcoin. You don't need to delay your investment because of excessive preparation, that would be unnecessary time wasting. A time which you would've used take advantage of nice buying opportunities and keep advancing in your accumulation journey.

But the real question here is, does the person understand what is discretionary money? Suppose someone has $100 in their hand after paying for necessary expenses, but that is their entire cash balance and there is nothing else to use in case of an unexpected expense in the next two weeks. Then you can't just put the entire $100 in Bitcoin and say that it was discretionary income. Part of common sense is to have some cash cushion and not buy Bitcoin in a way that will cause problems if the slightest expense increase. If you have discretionary income, there is no need for much preparation, but you should not invest in a financial reckless way. And I agree with you. If $10 is your reasonable starting amount, then there is no problem in starting with $10. Later, when income, discretionary funds and cashflow are strong, the amount can be increased.

Why are you giving us bad examples?

If a person only has $100 then he has absolutely no back up funds.

Yeah, you said that he has it figured out that he has no other expenses for the next two weeks, but what if he is wrong?

You want to presume that a guy can predict the future of his expenses for the next 2 weeks with 100% certainty?

He has three choices with the $100, which is invest, save, discretionarily consume.  You want him to put 100% of that into investing with absolutely no back up funds?  How is that a good example of what to do?  Are you trying to create a situation in which the guy is gambling for the next two weeks (presuming that he is getting paid in two weeks)?

But the real question here is, does the person understand what is discretionary money? Suppose someone has $100 in their hand after paying for necessary expenses, but that is their entire cash balance and there is nothing else to use in case of an unexpected expense in the next two weeks. Then you can't just put the entire $100 in Bitcoin and say that it was discretionary income. Part of common sense is to have some cash cushion and not buy Bitcoin in a way that will cause problems if the slightest expense increase. If you have discretionary income, there is no need for much preparation, but you should not invest in a financial reckless way. And I agree with you. If $10 is your reasonable starting amount, then there is no problem in starting with $10. Later, when income, discretionary funds and cashflow are strong, the amount can be increased.

Don’t get yourself confused, if after spending on all necessary needs and want and a folk have $100, that his/her discretionary income, and the person can decide if to invest all on bitcoin or if he can invest just a little and from there he can decide to build both emergency and reserve funds, but it a matter of how he wants to do it.

So it not a matter of common sense but preference. All investment have a certain target so some might give themselves a certain timeframe to reach such target, so investing little by little might not be the way for some people.

It is a matter of preference if the guy has back up funds to cover his next 2 weeks, but if he only has $100 and no back up funds, he is gambling if he is not holding back some of the value for unexpected basic expenses that might happen in the next 2 weeks.