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Author Topic: JJG’s Outline of Bitcoin Investment Ideas  (Read 77491 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (8 posts by 8+ users deleted.)
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Today at 06:38:16 PM
 #7301


A stable and high income is very important for long-term investment. If your income is not high, it will be difficult to separate your discretionary income from that income and when you cannot separate discretionary income for your investment, then naturally you will not be able to invest. I think that along with investment, we should pay maximum attention to how to earn more money. The more money we can earn, the safer our investment will be and it will be easier for us to continue that investment in a long-term plan.


Apparently, what you’re saying is wrong, you don’t need a stable income to invest in bitcoin, what is required for you to invest in bitcoin is for you to have a discretionary income, there are people who have a stable income but they don’t have a discretionary income after paying for their expenses and bills, so when you have a stable income but you end up not having a discretionary income, that would be awkward because you’re not meant to buy bitcoin outside your discretionary income, having a high income isn’t a criteria for you to have a discretionary income, apply some financial management no matter how small your income is, then you can figure out your discretionary income, there are individuals who are investing in bitcoin but doesn’t have a stable income or a high income like you stated, but are still buying and investing in bitcoin because they applied some financial management and were able to figure out their discretionary income which they are buying and accumulating bitcoin consistently.

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Today at 07:00:19 PM
 #7302

A stable and high income is very important for long-term investment. If your income is not high, it will be difficult to separate your discretionary income from that income and when you cannot separate discretionary income for your investment, then naturally you will not be able to invest. I think that along with investment, we should pay maximum attention to how to earn more money. The more money we can earn, the safer our investment will be and it will be easier for us to continue that investment in a long-term plan.
This is a misleading statement that should be disregarded because your income must not be high or stable before you can invest in Bitcoin and be successful, because all you just need to start your investment is by figuring out your discretionary income as most users have said already, because it's true that your discretionary income you can buy and accumulate consistently, and even get your emergency funds in place, that will protect your investment from real life emergencies. So it's actually misleading to be altering such statement.

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Today at 07:03:59 PM
 #7303


In my country's context I can say that there are some people who are poor but they are also accumulation Bitcoin. It is true that they lack some knowledge in long term but they are able to realize that Bitcoin will give them huge returns in the future. What is surprising is that these poor investors have a long term strategy. They have not built an emergency fund but are accumulation Bitcoin based on discretionary income.

People should stop investing blindly or do things without common sense. An investment without back up funds will definitely fall, because back up funds are safety nets that protects the investment from been used to settle financial emergency demands that may arise while investing. Thus, we can't underplay and/or undermine the importance of emergency funds. Anyone just investing and buying Bitcoin regularly without building back up funds is equal to a gambler who could lose his assets at anytime.

So, the best encouragement should be that investors should begin building there back up funds immediately as soon as they start buying Bitcoin. These two goes together to ensure a substanable investment journey.
Sometimes people don't understand how important an emergency or back up funds is an investment that's bitcoin without an emergency funds is just like some one building a house on top of a sand it wouldn't take much longer the building will collapse, it's not that we must have our emergency funds before we can start buying bitcoin, although anyone who has their emergency funds before they can start it's also good because investing in BTC without also building any back up along with it is like gambling with your investment because it doesn't have any kind of protection when there is an emergency.

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Today at 07:09:41 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #7304


In making their decisions, they are still very confused. If they want safe cash flow management, the only way they should do is buy Bitcoin for investment. If someone asks me where they should invest their money, my advice is always to buy Bitcoin as savings for their future by owning assets in the form of Bitcoin. But behind all that, all decisions, as we discussed earlier, are ultimately theirs. No matter what discussion we have in this forum, if their decisions aren't focused on investment, it's the same. Currently, the only viable investment for accumulating or saving money is investing in Bitcoin.
You are actually combining two separate concepts. The first is to manage your cash flow safely. The second is to invest in Bitcoin. Proper money management will help you understand how much you can actually invest. For example, your monthly income may be $2,000 and you spend $1,800 on everything you need. The remaining $200 is your discretionary income. But if you don't have any emergencies, investing all of your discretionary income is not the safest decision. On the other hand, someone may have a sufficient emergency fund and their monthly expenses may also be under their control. They may feel comfortable investing a large portion of the same amount of discretionary income in Bitcoin. Here, even if the assets are the same, the situations of the two people are different. Most of us may have a positive view of the long-term potential of Bitcoin. But it is not the same for every person to consider the same financial decision appropriate. Even if someone is interested in investing in Bitcoin, they should first look at the necessary  How much discretionary income is left after expenses are met? So the reality is that the goal of safe money management is not just to buy Bitcoin, but to build a financial position where you can continue to collect as much as you can while still meeting your necessary responsibilities.

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Today at 07:11:36 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #7305

Bitcoin investment can be started with little income and the investor can build from that. We don't have to make it too scary to start investing in Bitcoin when the DCA strategy is there to help even low income earner to be able to start with the least amount they can comfortably invest in Bitcoin after sorting out their basic needs. We don't also have to make it look like only the rich can invest in Bitcoin,
This misconception about who can invest in Bitcoin investment and who can't is causing a lot of damage to be very honest. The poor have every right and the opportunity to invest just as the rich does. Nobody should put that fear and make it look as if the rich have every advantage than the poor as this can discourage a lot that have plan of venturing in the system. However, the DCA method isn't just there as a picture, but to serve what it's meant to do. Let's no scare people with clear intentions of investing in Bitcoin, I know Bitcoin is quite expensive and well valuable but the DCA has always got us covered.
It is important to understand that DCA is a bitcoin purchasing strategy, it is not a solution to any person financial problems. Whether a person is rich or poor to start bitcoin accumulation he should first understand whether there are discretionary funds left after meeting his necessary expenses. But if there are no discretionary funds only the desire to follow the DCA strategy will not create funds to buy bitcoin. You said that there is no difference between the rich and the poor. In fact the main issue here is not how much income he is making but how much excess fund he has after meeting expenses from income which is beyond necessary expenses is more important. For many rich people whose expenses are high responsibilities are high there is debt the business is going down and profits are decreasing investing may not be the right decision. But for someone who earns a relatively low income is considered poor but after spending he has some excess fund left he can invest with that fund. Now the solution to the money problem is not actually a matter of words or thinking about making decisions. Therefore rich people are in a better position when it comes to investing in bitcoin if they can maintain it properly. Because they have financial solvency. They can easily solve any kind of financial problem. And by making a high DCA amount they can quickly create a strong bitcoin holding. But a person who is poor due to his low financial capacity will not need a large amount of holding for financial security in the future. Here is what he is used to living. Let me give an example suppose a low income person has $20 discretionary income per week and he buys $15 bitcoin from there. He is using 75% of his discretionary income for bitcoin accumulation. A rich person has $200 discretionary income per week, but he buys only $50 bitcoin. Here a poor person is investing in bitcoin more aggressively according to his ability compared to a rich person. Although the amount is less the bitcoin holding will be less, but that person may be ahead of the rich person according to his lifestyle and target. But it is true that it is not always easy for low income people to increase their discretionary income. So you should increase your income source according to your ability. You don't need to be rich to start bitcoin investment, but you do need to have real discretionary funds. A person can start accumulation with $10 and try to increase the investment amount as his financial condition improves over time.

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Today at 07:32:23 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #7306

Sometimes people don't understand how important an emergency or back up funds is an investment that's bitcoin without an emergency funds is just like some one building a house on top of a sand it wouldn't take much longer the building will collapse, it's not that we must have our emergency funds before we can start buying bitcoin, although anyone who has their emergency funds before they can start it's also good because investing in BTC without also building any back up along with it is like gambling with your investment because it doesn't have any kind of protection when there is an emergency.

I don't dispute or disregard what you said about emergency funds and back up but as an investor especially a newbie or pleb, the most priority should be given to discretionary income and then start while making arrangements for emergency funds and back up funds. If someone want to build a house the first thing they will do is start regardless of whether their funds is complete or not but they have the believe and hope that they will accomplish it because they already have a source so what i am saying is that everything must not be ready before someone can start but rather the most important is starting.

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Today at 08:17:02 PM
 #7307

Your link did not work... so I fixed it.... otherwise I agree with the points that you are making that relate to guys abilities to try to work towards putting themselves into a better category with the passage of time, even if they might have had started without much of anything.

What we understand from these Hypo's is that if you are newbie, who don't have any emergency funds in place even then you must not hesitate to start investing in Bitcoin and building emergency funds alongside. As newbie start investing in Bitcoin, he will have better understanding of how much Bitcoin he needs in future that he can call adequate. Moreover as we keep on investing, we are also in position to catch the dip which was not possible otherwise. Newbies must be aggressive in start of their Bitcoin accumulation journey because they have to gather good number of Bitcoins before they can think about their future journey.

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Today at 08:22:29 PM
Last edit: Today at 08:45:55 PM by JayJuanGee
 #7308

Bitcoin investment certainly requires a reasonable income, but even then it is very reasonable for us to add some additional strategies such as building an emergency fund. We should definitely consider this situation. To be successful in Bitcoin investment, we must be patient, but a new investor can invest in Bitcoin freely.
If he can invest in Bitcoin using his income in a new situation, then this will be the best for him, patience is definitely the most important thing for Bitcoin investment.
Bitcoin investment certainly doesn’t need a reasonable amount of income before you can get started with investing in bitcoin, as you’re not investing from your income, rather you’re investing from your discretionary income leftover money, however I don’t really know how much income you classify as reasonable, you don’t need to have all the money in the world before you can start buying and investing in bitcoin, as small as your discretionary income you can buy from the DCA, the most important thing is that you’ve a discretionary income to invest in bitcoin, considering that you’ don’t have a huge amount of discretionary income you can stick with buying through the DCA and then try increasing your cashflow as you keep investing, to also enable you to increase your amount of accumulation, but as a beginner you have a discretionary income you can buy small small and staying consistent.
A stable and high income is very important for long-term investment. If your income is not high, it will be difficult to separate your discretionary income from that income and when you cannot separate discretionary income for your investment, then naturally you will not be able to invest. I think that along with investment, we should pay maximum attention to how to earn more money. The more money we can earn, the safer our investment will be and it will be easier for us to continue that investment in a long-term plan.

You seem to be exaggerating @Patrol69.  Sure, if we are going to invest in bitcoin for 4-10 years or  longer, we need to be able to pay our basic expenses through that whole time, and surely the more money we make and the better we manage our various expenses, then the more likely that we will be able to create situations in which we can both keep contributing to our bitcoin holdings, yet we can also avoid or minimize the amount that we are tapping into our bitcoin at times that are not of our own choosing.

There is no reason to be describing perfect scenarios since a lot can happen to people in 4-10 years or longer, and they may end up having to change the amount that they can buy bitcoin or even the times that they can buy, and yeah, they also might have to sell some bitcoin against their wishes.  

Even if there are preferred outcomes, I see little to no value to proclaim that the only way that bitcoin investing will be successful is to have the preferred outcomes play out.

Now those whose income is relatively low but they are able to separate discretionary income from that relatively low income to invest, but even if the amount of that discretionary income is low, they can start that investment because it is not like that, it will actually take a very large amount to start investing and no amount of investment is small.

However, if the investor earns more money, it is always positive for him, so he should try to earn more money.

I agree with this portion of your post - including that if guys can figure out ways to increase their discretionary income by increasing their income and/or decreasing their expenses, then they will likely have more money to invest in bitcoin and also more money to strengthen their back up funds... and wealth likely could be built by a combination of those two ongoing building practices.

Of course, many of us already recognize that discretionary funds are used for investing, saving and discretionarily consuming, and so then the more discretionary income that we have over time, then the more options we will have in regards to how to use those discretionary funds as they come available.  Not all guys are in a good position to increase their discretionary funds and/or even able to stop their discretionary funds from shrinking over time, yet as you seem to be advocating, they can attempt to be proactive in improving their circumstances so that their discretionary funds can be increased and/or stopped from shrinking over time.

[edited out]
In my country's context I can say that there are some people who are poor but they are also accumulation Bitcoin. It is true that they lack some knowledge in long term but they are able to realize that Bitcoin will give them huge returns in the future. What is surprising is that these poor investors have a long term strategy. They have not built an emergency fund but are accumulation Bitcoin based on discretionary income. Although it is risky for them because they do not discuss in forums like ours, they are just investing in Bitcoin using their own methods. I do not know if the number of poor investors is so high in other countries but some investors in my country are using their morale and making a single effort to reach a good position financially and are holding Bitcoin by fighting against financial adversities.

For sure, some folks struggle in regards to the sources of their information, and there are ONLY so many hours in a day to try to figure out if some sources of information might be helpful in the abilities of normies to organize themselves in their finances and to figure out good ways to accumulate bitcoin and to safeguard themselves.

Cashflow management is a kind of basic skill that a lot of people learn, practice, repeatedly practice, make mistakes and hopefully learn from their mistakes (and hopefully their mistakes are not so BIG that they end up ruining themselves.  The fact of the matter is that many normal purposefully strive to be sufficiently conservative in their finances so that they do not ruin themselves and that they always have enough money to cover their basic expenses.. and sure sometimes they might have to struggle to make sure that they don't run out of money.. so then if they invest (including investing in bitcoin), that investment money gets set aside (not to be spent for 4-10 years or longer), and it can be quite challenging to adapt to having money on the side (that could be accessed) that is purposefully being taken out of current availability in order to be held for a time in the future that may or may not end up playing out as expected.

For sure, many of us bat around ideas in forums like this (and in threads like this), and it is not always clear if we are using our time well, since a lot of value can come from our own organizing of our finances and/or our thoughts, but sometimes we might not know what we do not know until we interact about our ideas in threads (forums) like these.

Many of us would presume that investing into bitcoin should incentivize guys to want to learn about bitcoin and about cashflow management, yet each person has their personality and they make choices about how much to prioritize bitcoin investing as compared with other things going on in their lives.  We cannot tell people what they should do, since it is up to them, even if we might realize that bitcoin is amongst the best, (if not the best place?) to put our time, energy and value, other folks might not come to those same conclusions  in regards to how to spend their time, energies and value.
Yes, I need to correct myself here. I think I was a little too strict about human freedom, after your comment I thought deeply about the matter and realized that I need to correct myself here.

People have freedom in terms of acquiring knowledge and in terms of investing, every person has the freedom to decide how much knowledge to acquire and how much to invest. We should make sure that we are acquiring the necessary knowledge and are not neglecting acquiring the necessary knowledge. Perhaps instead of using the word "deep knowledge", the word "necessary knowledge" should have been used. We definitely need knowledge to acquire skills in investing and to handle the situation, we cannot neglect acquiring knowledge in any way.

You seem to be making the same (or a similar) mistake that I was criticizing you for in your earlier post, since truly within your own choices, you can choose to prioritize learning, and even consider that the most likely path to success is to spend your time, energy and/or value on becoming more knowledgable about bitcoin.  

One of the problems that I attempted to identify and to suggest that you had gone overboard was when you proclaimed that others need to prioritize knowledge and/or learning, when surely they can choose to prioritize what they like, and sure you can suggest to others that their likelihood of success increases with improving their knowledge, and they may or may not agree with you about the value of either gaining knowledge and/or the best methods to gain knowledge (about bitcoin and/or cashflow management),  yet at the same time, they can still invest their time, energies and/or value into bitcoin.

Your link did not work... so I fixed it.... otherwise I agree with the points that you are making that relate to guys abilities to try to work towards putting themselves into a better category with the passage of time, even if they might have had started without much of anything.
What we understand from these Hypo's is that if you are newbie, who don't have any emergency funds in place even then you must not hesitate to start investing in Bitcoin and building emergency funds alongside. As newbie start investing in Bitcoin, he will have better understanding of how much Bitcoin he needs in future that he can call adequate. Moreover as we keep on investing, we are also in position to catch the dip which was not possible otherwise. Newbies must be aggressive in start of their Bitcoin accumulation journey because they have to gather good number of Bitcoins before they can think about their future journey.

Aggressiveness level remains a choice that each of us has.

Sure, we can proclaim that the more aggressive we are in buying bitcoin, then the more likely that we will profit in the future from our bitcoin investment, and accordingly we would presume that bitcoin prices will continue to go up... yet in the end, each person has to decide.

I frequently suggest that guys "should" try to invest in bitcoin as aggressively as they can without over doing it.

There is a difference between the use of the term "should" and "must."  Ultimately, when it comes to how whimpy or aggressive we are in the way that we buy bitcoin and in the way that we manage our cashflows, each of us chooses, and we are responsible for our choices.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  Resist being labelled as: "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
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Today at 08:50:46 PM
 #7309


There is no reason to be describing perfect scenarios since a lot can happen to people in 4-10 years or longer, and they may end up having to change the amount that they can buy bitcoin or even the times that they can buy, and yeah, they also might have to sell some bitcoin against their wishes.  



The perfect scenario gist is the main issues here. Most people do plan DCA as if income is going to stay same for 10 years!! It won’t.
Personally for me the trick is to make DCA flexible. When the month is good and doing good I increase small. When the month is not goging well or it tight i either pause or reduce, but I don’t sell. This way am not stressing myself to keep up with a certain amount that no longer matching my reality at the moment.

DCA is not a fixed number ….. it moves. If we should treat it as fixed that were the frustration starts.

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Today at 08:52:45 PM
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Many of us would presume that investing into bitcoin should incentivize guys to want to learn about bitcoin and about cashflow management, yet each person has their personality and they make choices about how much to prioritize bitcoin investing as compared with other things going on in their lives.  We cannot tell people what they should do, since it is up to them, even if we might realize that bitcoin is amongst the best, (if not the best place?) to put our time, energy and value, other folks might not come to those same conclusions  in regards to how to spend their time, energies and value.
Yes, I need to correct myself here. I think I was a little too strict about human freedom, after your comment I thought deeply about the matter and realized that I need to correct myself here.

People have freedom in terms of acquiring knowledge and in terms of investing, every person has the freedom to decide how much knowledge to acquire and how much to invest. We should make sure that we are acquiring the necessary knowledge and are not neglecting acquiring the necessary knowledge. Perhaps instead of using the word "deep knowledge", the word "necessary knowledge" should have been used. We definitely need knowledge to acquire skills in investing and to handle the situation, we cannot neglect acquiring knowledge in any way.

You seem to be making the same (or a similar) mistake that I was criticizing you for in your earlier post, since truly within your own choices, you can choose to prioritize learning, and even consider that the most likely path to success is to spend your time, energy and/or value on becoming more knowledgable about bitcoin.  



Mush emphasis on getting knowledge before starting our investment makes it look like we need a super knowledge to get started. We don't need all those emphasis to start buying BTC. All we need to get started is been able to figure out your discretionary income.

Even if we decide to begin to get knowledge before starting, how much knowledge can you acquire before getting started? Knowledge is a continuous thing and doesn't end, thus, you could even learn better while already investing rather than wanting to learn first before starting. Figuring out your discretionary income and getting started is mote important than wanting to acquire knowledge before starting. You could acquire first hand knowledge while already investing. You could also adjust and learn better investment practice that suits your income management and allocation while already investing. I think he is just laying much emphasis on the wrong place.

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Today at 09:18:56 PM
 #7311


There is no reason to be describing perfect scenarios since a lot can happen to people in 4-10 years or longer, and they may end up having to change the amount that they can buy bitcoin or even the times that they can buy, and yeah, they also might have to sell some bitcoin against their wishes.  



The perfect scenario gist is the main issues here. Most people do plan DCA as if income is going to stay same for 10 years!! It won’t.
Personally for me the trick is to make DCA flexible. When the month is good and doing good I increase small. When the month is not goging well or it tight i either pause or reduce, but I don’t sell. This way am not stressing myself to keep up with a certain amount that no longer matching my reality at the moment.

DCA is not a fixed number ….. it moves. If we should treat it as fixed that were the frustration starts.

Yeah it's not cause a low income earner can get more income in future and the able to have more funds for discretionary and sometimes would also have to adjust for a while based on much responsibilities those are what makes it not fixed. There also time when one would have the opportunity to buy more then seize by spending more of the discretionary fund on the investment.

 People shouldn't threat the amount they spend on buying Bitcoin like a fixed salary cause they discretionary income can never be same for forever, it would increase as more income is generated.

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