Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[TheNineClub]

I am surprised there haven't been any threads opened about this yet.

I am not that surprised actually. It seems to me that most of us can't really tell what's going on due to the sheer amount of info coming from both sides so it's hard to form opinions. I mean, some things are clear, but there's a lot in between that's hard to comment on. I just can't believe that people involved in this haven't learned anything from the past. Or they learned and just don't care. Can't say what's scarier. The information age is a blessing and a curse in situations like this and media will definitely play a significant role in this conflict, whatever the conflict might be. It's nothing new, Chomsky wrote about the media effects in the Vietnam war, but this time around, it's just that more amplified.

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[Gyfts]

So Putin's plan is now just to annex Russian speaking regions and declare them as part of Russia, seems logical. No resistance from NATO because the regions are already pro-Russia, and Putin can declare victory by having new proxy regions to Ukraine. The sanctions the US announced are a joke, it's mind boggling that people believe these sanctions will do anything. Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next, Putin will implant pro-Russian politicians and stir up conflict within the countries so that they can be declared pro-Russian territories and become annexed without military intervention. The invasion was never supposed to be a physical war, just Russia inching closer to gaining control over disputed regions that will not put up any fight, and won't receive any support from the international community.

[suchmoon]

Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next, Putin will implant pro-Russian politicians and stir up conflict within the countries so that they can be declared pro-Russian territories and become annexed without military intervention.

That'd be a sight to behold, what with them being proper NATO members and nowhere near as Russian as Donetsk. Not saying it's impossible, but certainly Putin has lower-hanging fruit to pick.

[Gyfts]

Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next, Putin will implant pro-Russian politicians and stir up conflict within the countries so that they can be declared pro-Russian territories and become annexed without military intervention.

That'd be a sight to behold, what with them being proper NATO members and nowhere near as Russian as Donetsk. Not saying it's impossible, but certainly Putin has lower-hanging fruit to pick.

As long as they can plant pro-Russian politicians it makes things easier because it will be under the guise of a sovereign nation making its own foreign policy decisions. It won't look like an invasion, it will just look like what Viktor Yanukovych did and his attempts to establish closer ties with Russia. Of course, he was oust after riots and fled to Russia so things did not work out, but Putin is a very evil and sadistic man that is willing to risk global conflicts to restore Russia's reputation, so the bar is set very low.

[TwitchySeal]

Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next, Putin will implant pro-Russian politicians and stir up conflict within the countries so that they can be declared pro-Russian territories and become annexed without military intervention.

That'd be a sight to behold, what with them being proper NATO members and nowhere near as Russian as Donetsk. Not saying it's impossible, but certainly Putin has lower-hanging fruit to pick.

As long as they can plant pro-Russian politicians it makes things easier because it will be under the guise of a sovereign nation making its own foreign policy decisions. It won't look like an invasion, it will just look like what Viktor Yanukovych did and his attempts to establish closer ties with Russia. Of course, he was oust after riots and fled to Russia so things did not work out, but Putin is a very evil and sadistic man that is willing to risk global conflicts to restore Russia's reputation, so the bar is set very low.

Maybe Paul Manafort will get called in to help a pro Russian candidate get elected to office in one of the Baltic states. 

[TopTort777]

So Putin's plan is now just to annex Russian speaking regions and declare them as part of Russia, seems logical.

Maybe he is trying to rebuilt USSR. But that would be stupid. History shows, that every union falls apart. Everyone are united only on the paper, but are ready to backstab a friendly country as soon as possible to protect own interests.

Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next.

Arent these countries under protection of NATO? Starting annexation, invasion, war will trigger massive war actions on the whole territory of Europe. And with the current weaponry, there will be no winner in this war.

[TwitchySeal]

So Putin's plan is now just to annex Russian speaking regions and declare them as part of Russia, seems logical.

Maybe he is trying to rebuilt USSR. But that would be stupid. History shows, that every union falls apart. Everyone are united only on the paper, but are ready to backstab a friendly country as soon as possible to protect own interests.

Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next.

Arent these countries under protection of NATO? Starting annexation, invasion, war will trigger massive war actions on the whole territory of Europe. And with the current weaponry, there will be no winner in this war.

Reality has little to do with the perception of team 'Lets go Brandon'.  With a steady diet of right wing media anything Biden, and by extension in this case the West in general,  does will be weak.  And they're tip toeing up to the line of showing admiration openly for the way Putin gets things done.  Trump has already signaled it's ok to admire Putins ways.  He has for years, of course, but never while Putin was literally invading an ally unprovoked. 

[paxmao]

One has to reckon that Putin did not lie at all. He said he was not going to invade Ukraine and he did not. Instead he declared part of Ukraine to be independent and then invaded those independent bits.   One has to admire that ability of being so honest and open about the true intentions of the military concentrations.

What is going to be next? "No I am just taking a cup of tea, this boiling water will not be poured unto the dissidents, but if they happen to be in my cup... too bad"??

[af_newbie]

One has to reckon that Putin did not lie at all. He said he was not going to invade Ukraine and he did not. Instead he declared part of Ukraine to be independent and then invaded those independent bits.   One has to admire that ability of being so honest and open about the true intentions of the military concentrations.

What is going to be next? "No I am just taking a cup of tea, this boiling water will not be poured unto the dissidents, but if they happen to be in my cup... too bad"??

By using this logic you can become the owner of pretty much anything by just declaring it, lol.

Putin annexed Crimea, and now he annexed Eastern Ukraine.

Moldova is next.  And there is nothing NATO will do about it.

Their 'sanctions' are a joke.

Eventually, they will be forced to confront him militarily (Alaska, northern Canada, or Romania/Poland). 

They are just kicking the can down the road.

[LTU_btc]

As long as they can plant pro-Russian politicians it makes things easier because it will be under the guise of a sovereign nation making its own foreign policy decisions. It won't look like an invasion, it will just look like what Viktor Yanukovych did and his attempts to establish closer ties with Russia. Of course, he was oust after riots and fled to Russia so things did not work out, but Putin is a very evil and sadistic man that is willing to risk global conflicts to restore Russia's reputation, so the bar is set very low.

Latvia and Lithuania is bit different thing than Ukraine. As said above, it's a bit difficult to imagine invasion of Russia into NATO country.
You have a point about pro-Russian politics in these countries. But at least in Lithuania they don't have much chances to get elected. Usually they get something like 1% of votes in elections. Latvia is a bit different story because 24% of their population is Russian people. But still, it would be very difficult for pro-Russian politics to get majority in elections.

[Gyfts]

...

It won't look like an invasion, it never does. Just pro-Russian politicians that will normalize relationships with Russia and cut off ties with the west. Invasions don't have to be two countries launching nukes at each other to see who's left standing. This isn't the Middle East. I distinctly remember for the past 5 years the claim that the Russians have infiltrated the U.S. with Donald Trump being some sort of Russian spy with intent to destabilize the west. I suppose it's not fair to cite conspiracy theories, but you get the idea.

Reality has little to do with the perception of team 'Lets go Brandon'.  With a steady diet of right wing media anything Biden, and by extension in this case the West in general,  does will be weak.  And they're tip toeing up to the line of showing admiration openly for the way Putin gets things done.  Trump has already signaled it's ok to admire Putins ways.  He has for years, of course, but never while Putin was literally invading an ally unprovoked. 

Unfortunately for the world, the US forces themselves into global affairs they can't handle. So the "Brandon" administration should actually apologize. I guess it was right wing media that forced Joe Biden into greenlighting Nord Stream 2: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-waive-sanctions-firm-ceo-behind-russias-nord-stream-2-pipeline-source-2021-05-19/

If you wonder why so many countries do not care about Russian aggression, it is because they understand U.S. sanctions will do nothing, and the control of natural resources Russia has is far too great. Surely Nord Stream 2 didn't help.

[TwitchySeal]

Unfortunately for the world, the US forces themselves into global affairs they can't handle. So the "Brandon" administration should actually apologize.

Apologize for what exactly?  Being a member of NATO? Supporting allies?  Having allies?  Considering strengthening allies?

If it's so obvious to you how the Biden administration is dealing with Russia is wrong, what is an obviously not wrong way to handle it?  How should Biden deal with a nuclear armed authoritarian invading a US ally.

If you wonder why so many countries do not care about Russian aggression, it is because they understand U.S. sanctions will do nothing, and the control of natural resources Russia has is far too great. Surely Nord Stream 2 didn't help.

Not following your logic.  You think 'so many countries' don't care about Russian aggression because US sanctions do nothing...what do the effects of US sanctions have to do with whether or not a country cares about Russia aggression.  Do you think if US sanctions would do something that would make them all the sudden care?  It's like you heard 'Biden is weak, he can't stop Russia' and decided to whip up a nice word salad.

[Gyfts]

Apologize for what exactly?  Being a member of NATO? Supporting allies?  Having allies?  Considering strengthening allies?

Being senile and bed ridden, and then botching a withdrawal from Afghanistan resulting in 13 US service members dying because Joe Biden decided to lie to the public about the power the Taliban had and how quickly Afghanistan would have fallen is weakness. Greenlighting Nord Stream 2 when the U.S. congress wanted sanctions last year is weakness. I notice you happened to ignore the Reutors source, so I suppose it is easy to see Joe Biden as a success when you merely stick your head in the sand at anything that might be perceived negatively. Joe Biden decided to become a Russian oil advocate and work against his party when they wanted to impose sanctions. Russian spy, perhaps?

If it's so obvious to you how the Biden administration is dealing with Russia is wrong, what is an obviously not wrong way to handle it?  How should Biden deal with a nuclear armed authoritarian invading a US ally.

See above. A competent monkey would do a better job as long as they took a hands-off approach and did nothing. I don't imagine you would be making excuses for Biden had Trump been in charge of this, or had Trump been responsible for getting US service members killed.

Not following your logic.  You think 'so many countries' don't care about Russian aggression because US sanctions do nothing...what do the effects of US sanctions have to do with whether or not a country cares about Russia aggression.  Do you think if US sanctions would do something that would make them all the sudden care?  It's like you heard 'Biden is weak, he can't stop Russia' and decided to whip up a nice word salad.

EU countries don't want the sanctions, they just want the oil. It is in their interest to ignore Russian aggression because they have things working their way - meaningless sanctions and oil/natural gas sources.

[PrimeNumber7]

No matter what anyone says, there is only one scenario in which Russia dares to make this move, but the first step should be made by the EU and not Russia. A scenario in which the EU and the US at this very second will introduce the maximum possible package of sanctions, something like a sanction against North Korea. In the meantime, the EU and the US act with caution by introducing phased sanctions against Russia, Ukrainians have nothing to fear.

Russia supplies 11% of the world's oil and supplies much of Europe's natural gas. It is simply not possible to impose that level of sanctions against Russia.

Maybe Paul Manafort will get called in to help a pro Russian candidate get elected to office in one of the Baltic states. 

Maybe Putin should consider hiring Hunter Biden to get a favorable response to any Russian aggression in the region.

Latvia and Lithuania are some of the countries that will be next.

Arent these countries under protection of NATO? Starting annexation, invasion, war will trigger massive war actions on the whole territory of Europe. And with the current weaponry, there will be no winner in this war.

I don't think Putin is daring enough to try to invade either country, or even position military forces in a way that might look like he is going to invade either country.

Russian troops know they can win a war against Ukraine. The same is not true with NATO. Trying to position itself to attack a county it cannot win may result in troops abandoning their posts in large numbers, which would threaten Putin's grip on power.

Reality has little to do with the perception of team 'Lets go Brandon'.  With a steady diet of right wing media anything Biden, and by extension in this case the West in general,  does will be weak.  And they're tip toeing up to the line of showing admiration openly for the way Putin gets things done.  Trump has already signaled it's ok to admire Putins ways.  He has for years, of course, but never while Putin was literally invading an ally unprovoked. 

Putin never invaded any country while Trump was in office. He pretty much started getting his troops into position as soon as Biden was elected.

There appear to be air strikes and/or bombings in Kiev.

[shahzadafzal]

There appear to be air strikes and/or bombings in Kiev.

Nothing much just a Putin doing operation in Ukraine.

[OgNasty]

Very sad that this is happening.  It seemed like Putin was going to be willing to discuss the situation, but it seems that was all just buying time as he set up his invasion force.  Knowing that a country like Russia, who should be setting an example on the world stage would act against seemingly the rest of the developed world so aggressively is disappointing.  I hope that whatever this is turns out to be over quickly and Russia is penalized for years to come.  I haven't read any death count numbers yet, but I assume with bombing comes casualties and citizens are rarely exempt from these sorts of actions.  I will be keeping the people of Ukraine in my thoughts and praying that they are able to get beyond this mess without much loss of life.

[cornhodlr]

We cannot take the moral high ground here because we completely ignored the Russians at the negotiating table.This is what allows Putin to use as the excuse to take action.We gave him this excuse because we were too arrogant to give any concessions.Instead we responded with flooding Ukraine with weapons ..and helmets.It is best the Ukrainians do the negotiating with Putin themselves because all our politicans are warmongers and are delighted to have this distraction in Ukraine deflecting from the shitshows happening in our own countries.

[xandry]

I haven't read any death count numbers yet, but I assume with bombing comes casualties and citizens are rarely exempt from these sorts of actions.

Dozens of dead and injured have been reported in the Russian and Ukrainian media. Basically, they are talking about the military, but peaceful citizens of Ukraine also come under fire. It's all terrible.

[Noson]

As the invasion is bound to occur and a possible war set to follow suit immediately, I strongly feel the Ukrainians will be at the losing end of this saga. Quite sad to express! The over ambitious, highly aggressive and ever dictatorial Putin may eventually have his way the end. Unless world leaders take up swift actions against Russia.

However, I'm not sure if sanctions may slow Putin down. I think Putin's administration has prepared a strategy for moments as these, hence his continuous advancement and looming full fledged invasion game plan.

[paxmao]

Examples: "I am not going to invade Ukraine". Then I declare that the bit of Ukraine I am going to invade is not Ukraine, thus all is as I said.
"This is just a military exercise in our border, it is just a coincidence that Ukraine is near", then the exercise becomes an attack.
"This is about the safety of Europe", and then I start a war in Europe.

I am sure you get the point. information provided by the now correctly called enemy, is not information.