CBDC will make Bitcoin MORE valuable

[Poker Player]

So what happens when CBDC's are adopted, and everyone is then dependent on the government to monitor digital pixels that appear on their banking portals, and Bitcoin is then banned by these governments? What happens if the governments won't allow CBDC's to be spent at online exchanges, or be sent to merchants that do business with Bitcoin? It's not a good idea to have your finances tied to an entity that can lock you out on a whim. The strategy for government with CBDC's is to create mass adoption, and then shut out competing crypto currencies.

We don't have a crystal ball with which to see the future but the most likely scenario is that there will be currencies with which to escape state control.

Arms trafficking, drug trafficking, prostitution (where it is illegal) will not cease to exist. The normal scenario is that Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies such as Monero will continue to be used, and in the unlikely event that the states manage to get rid of them, there will always be an alternative for illicit activities (and for those who want privacy) such as using banknotes from countries where physical fiat money is still used, gold coins and other metals, etc.

[OcTradism]

So what happens when CBDC's are adopted, and everyone is then dependent on the government to monitor digital pixels that appear on their banking portals, and Bitcoin is then banned by these governments?

Fiat currencies are adopted globally but they help people to realize the hyper inflation and recognize value of Bitcoin. CBDCs are better than Fiat currencies because it is more convenience for people to use. However, it is worse than fiat currencies in another aspect because it will result in worse inflation. Government will have more powerful tools to trigger more inflation with CBDCs.

Fortunately, think of Bitcoin and worse inflation by CBDCs, people will more realize the value of Bitcoin.

[pooya87]

It is an interesting journey in my opinion. First they pretty much ignored bitcoin as a passing thing that won't grow beyond a fraction of a cent, then as bitcoin continued growing and 1 BTC was worth more than 1 USD they realized this unique currency is now worth more than their centralized shitcoin so they started to slowly panic.

Then came the FUD campaign against bitcoin to try and prevent its growth but it was already too late as bitcoin was already worth a couple of hundred times more than their centralized shitcoin ($200 to $1200 in 2013) so the FUD campaign grow bigger too.
This FUD campaign turned into strict regulation and KYC storm on centralized exchanges since they were naive enough to think hitting exchanges would hit bitcoin!!!

After years of losing the battle against bitcoin as it gained more value against their centralized shitcoin (ie. fist such as US dollar) they decided to fight fire with fire but were dumb enough to think bitcoin is bitcoin because it is using blockchain technology so they started planning to create a copy which was yet another centralized shitcoin.

So here we are, CBDCs that are the same centralized shitcoin as fiat.
All it does is proving how successful bitcoin is and how afraid the corrupt and obsolete those in control of centralized money are.

[Wind_FURY]

So what happens when CBDC's are adopted, and everyone is then dependent on the government to monitor digital pixels that appear on their banking portals, and Bitcoin is then banned by these governments?

They can try to discourage people from using it through ban it, but it wouldn’t stop the network from chugging along, and it wouldn’t stop Bitcoin from being a censorship-resistant cryptocurrency. The people who truly need it WILL use it.

What happens if the governments won't allow CBDC's to be spent at online exchanges, or be sent to merchants that do business with Bitcoin? It's not a good idea to have your finances tied to an entity that can lock you out on a whim. The strategy for government with CBDC's is to create mass adoption, and then shut out competing crypto currencies.

That then proves that the point of this topic is right.

[Wind_FURY]

Since 1986, Visa has served as the exclusive payment service provider for the Olympic Games, complimenting cash as one of the only two ways to pay for anything at official Olympic venues. If you’re at the Olympics and need to pay with a credit card, or if you’re online and want to buy tickets for upcoming Games, Visa is the only way to go.

That was until Beijing 2022.

Inside the “Olympic bubble”—a dynamic quarantine zone China operates throughout the Olympic Village in Beijing—athletes, media, staff, and all other guests have three payment options available, rather than the usual two. Visa, cash, or China’s digital currency, the e-CNY.

Although utilizing a card interface blurs the distinction between paying in e-CNY or paying with a Visa credit card, using China’s digital currency at the Olympics is cheaper than paying with Visa. The latter will charge a processing fee on an international payment, as would be the case for a U.S. athlete using a U.S. credit card to buy something in Beijing. There are no fees for using e-CNY in China.

https://fortune.com/2022/02/11/2022-olympics-beijing-china-visa-credit-card-digital-yuan/

That’s going to be their main narrative on why CBDC is “better”, and why everyone won’t need any other digital currency, or any other medium for cashless payments. “Speed, efficiency, and convenience”. “Millions of transactions per second”. “Future of payments”.

[DooMAD]

athletes, media, staff, and all other guests have three payment options available, rather than the usual two. Visa, cash, or China’s digital currency, the e-CNY.

Although utilizing a card interface blurs the distinction between paying in e-CNY or paying with a Visa credit card, using China’s digital currency at the Olympics is cheaper than paying with Visa. The latter will charge a processing fee on an international payment, as would be the case for a U.S. athlete using a U.S. credit card to buy something in Beijing. There are no fees for using e-CNY in China.

That’s going to be their main narrative on why CBDC is “better”, and why everyone won’t need any other digital currency, or any other medium for cashless payments. “Speed, efficiency, and convenience”. “Millions of transactions per second”. “Future of payments”.

So, entice the visitors to become your guinea pigs and make sure it works before you start forcing the rest of your populace to use it?  Sounds about right.  

Because, let's be honest, once this thing is fully up and running, people in China probably won't have much choice in the matter for long.  It'll start with 'nudge theory', but will swiftly become outright coercion.

[AicecreaME]

While we don't know exactly how a certain country's CBDC would work, I'm going to guess it would just be very close to how fiat works on finance platforms like online banking and PayPal; that requires AML/KYC by default anywyay. I don't think having CBDCs would change a thing.

There's still no released statement yet on how the central organization plan to let CBDC work and what are its mechanisms, but I agree that it would be in par with how the physical fiat money works in a digital wallet or banking. Since CBDC would be basically a digital counterpart of fiat, it would behave I suppose in the ways fiat does. But one thing has a big chance to happen, when CBDC will be released, the KYC process would be mandatory for the users to track their transactions and for the government to keep track their information for AMLA purposes.

If ever this happens, those people who are very particular with anonymity will surely sought way to continuously be in the shadows. This will pose a good opportunity for bitcoin and crypto in general to blossom. This could pave way for increase bitcoin usage for those who are not really fond with KYC process.

[Wind_FURY]

athletes, media, staff, and all other guests have three payment options available, rather than the usual two. Visa, cash, or China’s digital currency, the e-CNY.

Although utilizing a card interface blurs the distinction between paying in e-CNY or paying with a Visa credit card, using China’s digital currency at the Olympics is cheaper than paying with Visa. The latter will charge a processing fee on an international payment, as would be the case for a U.S. athlete using a U.S. credit card to buy something in Beijing. There are no fees for using e-CNY in China.

That’s going to be their main narrative on why CBDC is “better”, and why everyone won’t need any other digital currency, or any other medium for cashless payments. “Speed, efficiency, and convenience”. “Millions of transactions per second”. “Future of payments”.

So, entice the visitors to become your guinea pigs and make sure it works before you start forcing the rest of your populace to use it?  Sounds about right.  

That’s what they did, and that’s what I said earlier in the topic, because it was already known that China would unveil their CBDC to the world during the Olympics, yet I believe there was a poster who didn’t believe it. Haha.

Because, let's be honest, once this thing is fully up and running, people in China probably won't have much choice in the matter for long.  It'll start with 'nudge theory', but will swiftly become outright coercion.

Using it itself would subject you to the protocol’s pre-programmed rules. Break the rules, wallet disabled. The value of Bitcoin’s narrative/main value proposition goes higher.

[franky1]

That’s going to be their main narrative on why CBDC is “better”, and why everyone won’t need any other digital currency, or any other medium for cashless payments. “Speed, efficiency, and convenience”. “Millions of transactions per second”. “Future of payments”.

So, entice the visitors to become your guinea pigs and make sure it works before you start forcing the rest of your populace to use it?  Sounds about right.  

Because, let's be honest, once this thing is fully up and running, people in China probably won't have much choice in the matter for long.  It'll start with 'nudge theory', but will swiftly become outright coercion.

sounds familiar.. i wonder why you ever thought up that those interested in new payment systems use coercion to try getting people to use the new system before its really ready to work for all use cases(that its being falsely advertised to achieve)...  

you know. coercion, like:
trying to limit utility growth of a legacy currency system
promoting a 'nextgen' thing as a/THE solution to legacy systems [instigated] limitation growth problems,
using people as guineapigs with coercion techniques..
bribe them with cheap fee's
make promises of its success rates that dont materialise

but yea, probably best to make sure the thing works flawlessly first in all circumstances and not only in utopian best use-case scenarios, before promoting the hell out of it and calling it a replacement for a legacy currency system

[Fundamentals Of]

A CBDC will strengthen the most fundamental argument of Bitcoin. It looks like a CBDC is nothing but a more powerful fiat in terms of monitoring and tracking of transactions. So it is more threatening in terms of our precious right to privacy. With a CBDC replacing the old fiat, we will become less and less free. We will see an invasion of our lives where privacy is being killed by the government. The case of Bitcoin will become stronger than ever.

[pushups44]

A CBDC will boost rather than diminish the popularity and use case of bitcoin, as people quickly realize that the CBDC can have its supply inflated at will to serve monetary goals, whereas bitcoin has a finite supply and can never be inflated arbitrarily. With widespread use of CBDCs, users would feel more comfortable buying or investing in decentralized cryptocurrencies - thus increasing their value over time.

Bitcoin wins with the growth of CBDCs.

[Wind_FURY]

A CBDC will boost rather than diminish the popularity and use case of bitcoin, as people quickly realize that the CBDC can have its supply inflated at will to serve monetary goals, whereas bitcoin has a finite supply and can never be inflated arbitrarily. With widespread use of CBDCs, users would feel more comfortable buying or investing in decentralized cryptocurrencies - thus increasing their value over time.

Bitcoin wins with the growth of CBDCs.

Partly that. But the absolute biggest reason why is CBDC users can be censored/prevented from making transactions, wallets can be locked, savers of CBDC don’t truly control the money in their wallet, and therefore anything in their wallets is NOT truly owned by them.

[Viscore]

Central bank digital currency is basically the same exact thing as a traditional currency we use today. It is a digital version of fiat money which is controlled by the bank.. People nowadays do not buy bitcoin because it is digital.They buy it because it is volatile and more people used it as an investment. It is also used to purchase anything (goods and services). Some countries have already started using bitcoin as a medium of exchange. More people has became rich with bitcoin.And I think, thats the reason why people keep choosing bitcoin because it is more valuable than CBDC.

[DooMAD]

Because, let's be honest, once this thing is fully up and running, people in China probably won't have much choice in the matter for long.  It'll start with 'nudge theory', but will swiftly become outright coercion.

Using it itself would subject you to the protocol’s pre-programmed rules. Break the rules, wallet disabled. The value of Bitcoin’s narrative/main value proposition goes higher.

It's just a shame that most people won't figure that out right away.  I'd hope that if people were left with no choice but to accept digital money because physical cash was being gradually phased out, they might look at Bitcoin right away as an alternative.  But human nature seems to suggest they'll have to have a bad experience first before they consider other alternatives to what the government are pushing.  And it's not like Bitcoin isn't short on plus points.  Aside from the lack of frozen funds, there's the lower inflation, real-world identities not necessarily tied to transactions and other benefits. 

We can see that value proposition already, but for others, the realisation will come too late.  I'm pretty sure there will come a time, at some point, where CBDCs will be the death of centralised exchanges because the central bank can simply block all fiat payments to and from them.  It would be so easy for them to do and I can't see any reason why they wouldn't if the option is there and they see crypto as a potential threat to the dominance of "their" money. 

*attempted goading into topic derailment*

Nice try.  Take your butthurt to another thread plz.  Preferably the one that was created for your benefit.  You know full well that conversation doesn't belong here.

[franky1]

Central bank digital currency is basically the same exact thing as a traditional currency we use today. It is a digital version of fiat money which is controlled by the bank.. People nowadays do not buy bitcoin because it is digital.They buy it because it is volatile and more people used it as an investment. It is also used to purchase anything (goods and services). Some countries have already started using bitcoin as a medium of exchange. More people has became rich with bitcoin.And I think, thats the reason why people keep choosing bitcoin because it is more valuable than CBDC.

people in china prefer to use wechatpay and alipay (both payment apps has over 1bill users each) because using visacard/mastercard come with a 2%/4% fee, where as the wechat/alipay are 0% fee within their ecosystems and 0.1% to withdraw out of those apps

you will find with any payment system when they start to raise the fee's people try to find a new payment system to use thats cheaper
thats even the same in crypto economy

people in europe/america moved away from 'topping up' debit cards and shifted to paypal when fee's went up, then when paypal fee's went up they shifted to venmo. then bitcoin. and now altcoins/altnets.

the reason people invest(asset class) instead of spend(currency payment) bitcoin is because the fee's have made it less useful as a daily spend payment system. there are many people tirelessly trying too hard to change bitcoin to be less useful as a payment system for daily spend.

addressing the coercion/propaganda stuff.. hinting at stuff like these words

But human nature seems to suggest they'll have to have a bad experience first before they consider other alternatives to what the government are pushing.  

the whole media narrative that chinese government controls all currency, are watching everything, everyone has to use one system.. is FALSE..
hints that humans have bad experience using alternative to government options is also false. people prefer to do favours for others in services of kindness and favours,.. doing favours, bartering, paying someone in food/alcohol(in other ways) for helping each other out IS HUMAN NATURE
its western propaganda from visa/mastercard/western politics getting angry that they cant grab 1.4 billion people in a community, so they want to present the "china is bad/broken" narrative. much like some altcoin/altnet want to say bitcoin is bad/broken..

as for the narrative that china is the most surveillance place.. um no. false again
based on camera's per city:
Beijing, China – 1,150,000 cameras for 20,896,820 people = 55.03 cameras per 1,000 people
Shanghai, China – 1,000,000 cameras for 27,795,702 people = 35.98 cameras per 1,000 people
London, England – 691,000 cameras for 9,425,622 people = 73.31 cameras per 1,000 people

yea at first glance it looks like "china is bad".. but look at the camera's per population.. its actually london that is watching more people

based on camera's per physical square mile
Delhi, India - 1826.58 cameras per square mile
London, England - 1138.48 cameras per square mile
Chennai, India - 609.92 cameras per square mile
..
Shanghai, China - 408.49 cameras per square mile
..
New york, US - 193.72 cameras per square mile
Beijing, China – 181.49 cameras per square mile

beijing is not even in the top 14 based on cameras per square mile, heck even NY has more cameras per mile than beijing

now why would western media and western controlled payment services like visacard not like china and want to present it as controlling. whilst unsurprisingly, visacard want to control the eastern market.. hmm

the pretence that china has only 1 payment system and its 'controlled by government' is false narrative/propaganda
its actually that there are many payment systems available. but only one of those many are controlled by government(unionpay)

there are MANY payment systems and methods in china.
alipay, wechatpay, tenpay, QQpay unionpay, jdpay, applepay, bestpay, huaweipay

.. company tencent (offering services in the form of tenpay wechatpay, QQpay) is an multinational technology and entertainment company that does gaming, movies and payment services. its not "the government"

[Wind_FURY]

*attempted goading into topic derailment*

Nice try.  Take your butthurt to another thread plz.  Preferably the one that was created for your benefit.  You know full well that conversation doesn't belong here.

Put him in your ignore list. I put him in mine after reading that debate topic. What a charlatan, he’s merely another anti-Bitcoin troll who simply wants to spread lies, and disinformation for the newbie-readers. I will give him my precious time if I am only in the mood to troll the troll.

[Tony116]

Central bank digital currency is basically the same exact thing as a traditional currency we use today. It is a digital version of fiat money which is controlled by the bank.. People nowadays do not buy bitcoin because it is digital.They buy it because it is volatile and more people used it as an investment. It is also used to purchase anything (goods and services). Some countries have already started using bitcoin as a medium of exchange. More people has became rich with bitcoin.And I think, thats the reason why people keep choosing bitcoin because it is more valuable than CBDC.

CBDC is essentially an upgrade of fiat, issued based on today's technological developments instead of using physical fiat. Yes, people will keep buying bitcoin because its price is higher than CBDC and Bitcoin price will continue to increase and demand for owning bitcoin will increase as CBDC will be inflationary and regulated like fiat.

[zasad@]

The best post about CBDC
https://twitter.com/Bitcoin/status/1493808277771022336
"The prime purpose for which elites want CBDCs is so they can turn your money off."
Many countries invest huge budgets in these projects. What needs to be done so that people refuse the services of banks?

[Wind_FURY]

The best post about CBDC
https://twitter.com/Bitcoin/status/1493808277771022336
"The prime purpose for which elites want CBDCs is so they can turn your money off."

Many countries invest huge budgets in these projects. What needs to be done so that people refuse the services of banks?

That truly is the absolute point. If only an anonymous developer built a robust, resilient protocol for a decentralized, censorship-resistant, permissionless cryptocurrency. I believe that would be a very very valuable form of money.

[DooMAD]

But human nature seems to suggest they'll have to have a bad experience first before they consider other alternatives to what the government are pushing.  

the whole media narrative that chinese government controls all currency, are watching everything, everyone has to use one system.. is FALSE..

For the record, my comments aren't specific to China.  They just happen to be the ones on track to roll out their CBDC first.  I suspect all governments, if they get on board with the switch to digital money, will look for ways to pressure people into using it.

Believe me when I say I'm fully aware that the UK government can be just as totalitarian as any other at times.  I would be equally concerned if they were trialling a similar system here.  Fortunately, given the utter shambles of 'Dido Test and Trace', I'm fairly confident the government is too inept and gormless to accomplish something on a technical scale of that magnitude.  The UK should be safe from CBDCs for at least another decade, probably longer, because we're simply too fucking stupid as a nation to elect competent people into positions of power.