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Author Topic: Can you answer a couple of questions to a potential bitcoin buyer?  (Read 1704 times)
BlackHatCoiner
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February 02, 2022, 08:41:26 PM
 #61

And I am asking you: what utilization capacity do you offer me for my dollars? What is your answer?
I already gave it to you. You're getting the ability to use a currency. Just like when you give $1 for €0.88. Bitcoin is a currency with specific characteristics. Some evaluate it because of these.

It's like asking a salesman about the box that has $10,000 price on it, and he answers: : that's a product. "A product" is just a generic phrase.
No it's not. No one makes much usage of one empty box to give $10,000 for it.

Your answer is because this number is amedium of exchange. This is pretty irrational answer given that "a medium of exchange" is just a generic phrase.
And yet, that's the only answer. The only purpose of Bitcoin's existence is because it helps us make transactions in a different way.

What I want to know is what utilization capacity will I get for my dollars?
You'll be able to use an internet currency that is censorship resistant, borderless, fast and online 24/7/365.

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February 02, 2022, 08:43:27 PM
 #62

First some short explanation, and then the questions.

If I bought stocks, bonds or fiat currencies I hold securities by which those who put them on the market, have the liability to me. Stocks are put on the market by companies. Bonds by corporations and governments. Fiat currencies by banking system and borrowers. By putting their securities on the market, the said entities essentially borrowed capital from the market, which is why they have the liability to return it back. This happens when they withdraw securities from the market. So if I am a market participant holding their securities, the capital is returned to me when companies buyback stocks or liquidate the business, when corporations or governments pay me bond's face value, and when the banking system and borrowers sell me the seized collaterals or goods, services or labour to get currency units for liquidating the issued loans. Numbers in this case only represent the amount of capital a security issuer borrowed and has the liability to return.

Bitcoin on the other hand, is not a security. Its issuer/issuers have no liability to withdraw bitcoins from the market, and in the process, return the capital to bitcoin holders. So if I hold bitcoin, I basically hold number for being number. I hold a product similar to gold, a picture, wheat or crude oil. People buy these products for what they are, for their intrinsic value. And unlike with securities, once people bought them, no entity has the liability to buy them back in the future. So, the only way people can benefit from them is by utilizing their intrinsic value. But, here a crucial problem arises regarding bitcoin.

Gold I can utilize for jewelry, electronics, dentistry and so on, a picture for pleasing my aesthetic senses, wheat for making all sorts of foods, crude oil for manufacturing everything from plastic to petroleum. Besides, a single unit of these products is pretty cheap. However, in the case of bitcoin the only way I can utilize it is by watching it. That's all. Once I buy bitcoin, my wallet application reads a number from the blockchain, and shows it on the screen of my mobile phone. And all I can do, is to watch that number. To watch it like a picture is watched. When I sell bitcoin to other people, the new holders can also just watch a number on the screen. So, essentially no human being on Earth is capable to do anything after purchasing bitcoin, but to watch a number. Obviously, watching a number is not as aesthetically pleasing as watching a picture of a beautiful girl or a sunset.

And now the questions: if I can purchase a picture of a sunset for a couple of bucks on Shutterstock and watch something aesthetically rich, why on Earth would I purchase number "1" for $37,000 and watch something aesthetically poor? Why would I pay so much money for a single unit of a product that in comparation to gold, a sunset picture, wheat or crude oil has so low utilization capacity?

It seems like you're just anti bitcoin and or you simply don't understand what it is and or how it works.  Bitcoin is not the same thing as gold, or wheat or crude oil or a shutter stock photo etc.  These are all entirely different things that do different things. Bitcoin by nature is a currency ( yes it does have other aspects ) and it's a virtual currency that has tremendous upside for the technology it is based off of. 

It's really as simple as that.

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February 02, 2022, 09:45:24 PM
Last edit: February 02, 2022, 09:58:28 PM by franky1
 #63

Your answer is because this number is amedium of exchange. This is pretty irrational answer given that "a medium of exchange" is just a generic phrase.
And yet, that's the only answer. The only purpose of Bitcoin's existence is because it helps us make transactions in a different way.

What I want to know is what utilization capacity will I get for my dollars?
You'll be able to use an internet currency that is censorship resistant, borderless, fast and online 24/7/365.

to antithesis:
emphasis on a different way.
where there are many many features and benefits already listed in this topic that you(antithesis) are purposefully ignoring.

the many ways have already been explained multiple times by multiple people.
take a few days away from the keyboard and rid your self of the "number 1" limited view. then actually research and see what bitcoin can actually do differently than fiat.

we have already gave you many hints, now its your turn to find your own answers

heres some highlights
You'll be able to use an internet currency that is censorship resistant, borderless, fast and online 24/7/365.

the way that its a currency that offers different features that banks dont
the way that its a currency that offers different less restrictions than banks do
how you can hand it to another owner without needing to explain reasons
how you can buy things with it
how you can be the sole controller of transfers
how it is irreversible
how its immutable
how it does not rely on government involvement
how its deflationary, to hedge against inflation
you can treat it like a 'trust' without having to get a solicitor/lawyer to draw up 'trust documents'
you can use it like an off-shore tax shelter. store value without having to do any banking shuffling
keep it as a pension pot
assign it as inheritance without having to do complex Will's or contracts

its not just a number that sits on your phone. its actually a medium of exchange meaning you can do things with it and use it as a currency or asset.

heck some people have actually implanted private keys into 2 layers of painting canvas and then painted a picture on the top layer, and then sold the art which displays the public address.. whereby to claim the value people need to destroy the art. or preserve the art to preserve the key

heck some people have actually implanted private keys into physical coins whereby breaking the physical coin is needed to reveal the private key. so preserving the physical coin preserves the value on the private key.

so if you want to make your bitcoin value "attractive" and physical.. you can

you will be surprised what you can do with bitcoin beyond just "seeing a number 1"

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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February 02, 2022, 09:51:55 PM
 #64

~snip~
^ Yes.
Because since you are a potential buyer, I believe there is nothing more you need to ask for since it is your initiative to research and dig deeper to know more about it before you decided to buy it and here is from Satoshi saying, "If you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry". Simply as that. We don't have much time for those people who had to feel anti-BTC to argue with them, instead, encourage them to see what is the better future the BTC has.
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February 03, 2022, 08:25:55 AM
Last edit: February 03, 2022, 08:54:03 AM by Antithesis
 #65

So, why would I pay $38,000 only to get the ability to watch number 1 on the screen?

To sell it for $100k? What kind of a dumb question is this? Are you stewpid? You talk all that crap about finance and you don't know the basics of finance which is buying low and selling high? Read a book you ignorant fool.

Stock Investing For Dummies Cheat Sheet
So, if I ask you, why would I pay a $1M for a product, your answer would be: "to sell it for $2M. Well, I have no psychic powers. I am simply asking why would I pay an enormous amount of money for a particular product.

Why are some people paying 1 million for a bugatti if they can have an audi cheaper? Why do they pay more for a lambo that uses audi parts than for an audi? Why people pay more for a bitcoin where they could have bitcoin cash for cheaper? Think about it.

You demand answers to be pushed down your throat instead of using your brain and coming up with them by yourself.
Well, people are buying a Bugatti because they are able to utilize it. That's why cars exist in the the market in the first place. Because they have utilization capacity - they are able to be driven. The price then depends on how big this capacity is. So, people are not buying cars because they are tradable. Everything on the market is tradable by definition. And everything that is tradable is by definition means of exchange. You can't say: "a Bugatti costs $1M because it's tradable". That's stupid. It's the utilization capacity that matters. This is true for everything that is in the market. When buyers are checking a product they basically check its utilization capacity.

Utilization capacity of a security is how much value will the last holder of a security get from the issuer at the security withdrawal from the market. If for e.g. a bond issuer offers $1,000 face value that's the utilization capacity and the market price will be around that level. No one will pay you $1M for a bond with $1,0000 face value.

We know that bitcoin issuer/issuers don't withdraw bitcoin from the market to give something to the last bitcoin holders. So, bitcoin has zero utilization capacity in that sense. Bitcoin is not a security like bonds, stocks or fiat currencies are. Which means that bitcoin must have utilization capacity the same as economic goods have. And in bitcoin, this utilization capacity is the ability to be watched on the screen. It is not the ability to be driven, eaten, turned into energy or jewelry, etc. It's simply the ability to be watched. What I am asking is why would I pay $38,000 for that? People in this topic are ignoring this question. But instead, they repeat, in various ways, that bitcoin has generic feature of all things that exist on the market, that it is "tradable", that it is a "means of exchange", etc. Or they say bitcoin is easy to store and transfer. Well, a needle is tradable the same as a Bugatti. The needle is easier to store and transfer than a Bugatti. But would you trade the latter for the former? So, what I am interested to know is why would I give you a Bugatti for a needle? Why would I give you a thing with a huge utilization capacity for a thing with immensely small utilization capacity? Why would I give you a Bugatti for number "50"? Can you answer the question?
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February 03, 2022, 08:59:11 AM
 #66

Can you answer the question?
Open your online banking app and you will see the same useless numbers which are also of intangible nature, cannot be eaten, driven, turned into jewelry, etc. These numbers are nothing more than pixels on a screen. You don't need them actually because they by themselves have zero "utilization capacity." However, you for some reason keep buying them and keep going to your job to earn more useless digits. The real reason is that you don't want money, you want products, goods, services, things of real utilization capacity, which the only way to acquire is with useless digits you previously earned with blood and sweat. Bitcoin is no different from any other money in this regard, it is useless as a product but still can be exchanged for real products. The only reason people wish to buy bitcoin is that it has a greater potential than fiat money to be exchanged for more goods and services in the future. If you for some reason don't want to wait, if you don't want to defer consumption for the sake of more consumption in the future, you don't need Bitcoin, just keep using fiat money that is perfectly designed for immediate gratification of your needs. It's all about your preferences and your mindset.

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February 03, 2022, 10:06:34 AM
 #67

Is that what Bitcoin really is to you? Have you gotten to know Bitcoin a little more deeply? What do you think is the reason why Bitcoin turned from basically nothing into a $38,000-currency? That, despite of a strong resistance from all directions, heavy criticisms, extreme labels, and so on. Do you think in buying Bitcoin people only buy a number registered and kept in the blockchain? Have you heard of any decentralized money? Have you heard of a tamper-proof, censor-proof, borderless currency? Have you heard of a currency whose supply is fixed, hard-coded, in the system?

Anyway, for argument’s sake, people give value to anything under the sun. It’s all about agreement. If a community agrees among themselves that this unique kind of leaf or that shiny kind of stone has value and could be used as a currency, it will have value. You have to take note that people worship a tree, a stone, or whatever.
Bitcoin turned from basically nothing into a $38,000-number because people accepted whatever ask the sellers put on the market. I am not accepting it because I am a rational buyer. I am checking what I am buying. That's why I asked the questions.

I don't deny that there are a lot of people nowadays who simply accepted the price the sellers put. Many in the Bitcoin community nowadays are sheep. They don't really know enough about Bitcoin. They just know that there are people who made the careful study and concluded that the future of Bitcoin is bright. And the price has offered a sort of a testament for it. Because of this, they also want to own Bitcoin. Not a few among us simply joined the bandwagon.

But I don't want to compare you with them. I want to compare you with those who made a thorough study of Bitcoin and arrived at a conclusion that the technology is simply radically amazing. Billions are poured into Bitcoin after a serious scrutiny of its features. Perhaps you might want to wonder why they have a different conclusion.

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February 03, 2022, 10:34:59 AM
Last edit: February 03, 2022, 10:45:33 AM by BlackHatCoiner
 #68

Well, people are buying a Bugatti because they are able to utilize it
This is true.

That's why cars exist in the the market in the first place. Because they have utilization capacity - they are able to be driven.
This is also true. Cars exist solely for this reason.

The price then depends on how big this capacity is.
This is half true. The price is determined by lot of things, such as the price of their productive factors, the technological improvements, the need for driving from the consumers' side.

Everything on the market is tradable by definition.
Correct, but some things are easier to trade than others. For instance, it's far easier to transport a million dollars worth of gold than a million dollars worth of cars. Gold is easier to cut into smaller pieces, it's durable and fungible. I'd prefer paying me in gold rather than in cars.

You can't say: "a Bugatti costs $1M because it's tradable". That's stupid.
It's stupid because it's not designed to be traded. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to buy such car, just to trade it. It's not utilized for trade, but for driving.

If for e.g. a bond issuer offers $1,000 face value that's the utilization capacity and the market price will be around that level. No one will pay you $1M for a bond with $1,0000 face value.
You still haven't answered me why would I want these green pieces of paper. According to you, they don't have utility as they're designed only to be exchanged for goods and services.

They're valuable because they're used as currency. It's a measure of utility. Monopoly banknotes have not the same value, because they aren't accepted in the same way. But, they both are pieces of paper.

We know that bitcoin issuer/issuers don't withdraw bitcoin from the market to give something to the last bitcoin holders.
Of course and some do. Some don't want BTC, they are willing to exchange it for any other currency or product. However, I don't think withdraw is the correct verb to describe this.

Bitcoin is not a security like bonds, stocks or fiat currencies are.
Again, neither fiat currencies are. Securities, bonds and stocks happen on an already existent currency. Stocks aren't EUR, but they can be exchanged for it. Same can happen with Bitcoin, gold, rocks and salt as long as the buyer and the seller come into an agreement.

And in bitcoin, this utilization capacity is the ability to be watched on the screen
No, it's not. This is just you who's constantly thinking closed-mindedly. It can neither be driven or eaten. That doesn't make it non-utilizable.

What I am asking is why would I pay $38,000 for that? People in this topic are ignoring this question.
I've already told it to you two times. You're paying any amount of dollars to use a currency that is different in character.

Well, a needle is tradable the same as a Bugatti.
I explained above why this is false.

The needle is easier to store and transfer than a Bugatti. But would you trade the latter for the former?
You're not going to trade 1 needle for 1 Bugatti. You're going to look up the price of 1 needle and the price of 1 Bugatti. If we assume that 1 Buggati costs $1,000,000 and 1 needle $0.01, then whether you give me 100,000,000 needles or 1 Buggati, they have the same market value.

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February 03, 2022, 11:05:02 AM
 #69

Can you answer the question?
Open your online banking app and you will see the same useless numbers which are also of intangible nature, cannot be eaten, driven, turned into jewelry, etc. These numbers are nothing more than pixels on a screen. You don't need them actually because they by themselves have zero "utilization capacity." However, you for some reason keep buying them and keep going to your job to earn more useless digits. The real reason is that you don't want money, you want products, goods, services, things of real utilization capacity, which the only way to acquire is with useless digits you previously earned with blood and sweat. Bitcoin is no different from any other money in this regard, it is useless as a product but still can be exchanged for real products. The only reason people wish to buy bitcoin is that it has a greater potential than fiat money to be exchanged for more goods and services in the future. If you for some reason don't want to wait, if you don't want to defer consumption for the sake of more consumption in the future, you don't need Bitcoin, just keep using fiat money that is perfectly designed for immediate gratification of your needs. It's all about your preferences and your mindset.
Numbers on my bank account are not useless because banks and borrowers are liable to use them to liquidate the isued loans. Every number in someone's bank account is someone else's loan. And loans need to be payd. The banks, via borrowers, withdraw numbers from people's banking accounts literally every minute and in that way pay the last number holders goods, services or labour of the borrowers. With new loans numbers are put back on people's accounts and the whole process repeats itself. Bitcoins are never withdrawan from people's accounts by the issuer. They always exist in people's accounts/wallets. Meaning, bitcoin circulates in the market like gold. But unlike gold, it's literally useless. All people can do with it is watching it on the screen in the form of a number. So, I am still waiting for the answer to my questions. Why would I pay you $38,000 for watching a number on the screen.
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February 03, 2022, 11:09:09 AM
 #70

I am not interested in this kind of discussion.
You're generally not interested into admitting you're wrong. You can't accept another mindset. I wasn't interested into talking to such person, but hey, at least I tried.

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February 03, 2022, 11:19:53 AM
 #71

I am not interested in this kind of discussion.
You're generally not interested into admitting you're wrong. You can't accept another mindset. I wasn't interested into talking to such person, but hey, at least I tried.
When I come to a store, I am not there to "admit" something. I am there to ask a salesman about a particular product to find out whether the price on the product is reasonable. Here, I also ask about a product - bitcoin. And your answer is: "You're paying any amount of dollars to use a currency that is different in character."

Which is as stupid as the following answer by salesman: "You're paying any amount of dollars to use a product that is different in character."
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February 03, 2022, 11:27:58 AM
 #72

[...]
We're not a store here, sir. We're making dialogue. We're not obligated to assist you.

Here, I also ask about a product - bitcoin. And your answer is: "You're paying any amount of dollars to use a currency that is different in character."
Yes, that's my answer. That's the main reason people use Bitcoin. The fact that you don't like this answer doesn't make it not true. Allow me to tell you that not every person thinks exactly as you do.

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February 03, 2022, 11:37:06 AM
 #73

Numbers on my bank account are not useless because banks and borrowers are liable to use them to liquidate the isued loans. Every number in someone's bank account is someone else's loan. And loans need to be payd. The banks, via borrowers, withdraw numbers from people's banking accounts literally every minute and in that way pay the last number holders goods, services or labour of the borrowers. With new loans numbers are put back on people's accounts and the whole process repeats itself. Bitcoins are never withdrawan from people's accounts by the issuer. They always exist in people's accounts/wallets. Meaning, bitcoin circulates in the market like gold. But unlike gold, it's literally useless. All people can do with it is watching it on the screen in the form of a number. So, I am still waiting for the answer to my questions. Why would I pay you $38,000 for watching a number on the screen.
Okay. That means they are so useless that you even can't control them and claim ownership over useless digits that are supposed to represent your purchasing power but represents only your gradual impoverishment. Loans that are paid in useless tokens are also useless numbers used to finance uncontrollable consumption and useless projects that add nothing useful to this world. This all is a result of the availability of cheap credit in fiat tokens conjured out of thin air by bureaucrats and corrupted politicians. I think you are a perfect example of a person who doesn't care he is being robbed by bankers and therefore he doesn't care there is an alternative and a way to opt-out, a person with high time-preference who value neither their own time nor other's and instead is wasting it on things that don't make any sense.

Please, don't answer since I am not interested in this discussion anymore.

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February 03, 2022, 11:43:06 AM
 #74

Quote
Why are some people paying 1 million for a bugatti if they can have an audi cheaper? Why do they pay more for a lambo that uses audi parts than for an audi? Why people pay more for a bitcoin where they could have bitcoin cash for cheaper? Think about it.

You demand answers to be pushed down your throat instead of using your brain and coming up with them by yourself.
Well, people are buying a Bugatti because they are able to utilize it. That's why cars exist in the the market in the first place. Because they have utilization capacity - they are able to be driven. The price then depends on how big this capacity is. So, people are not buying cars because they are tradable. Everything on the market is tradable by definition. And everything that is tradable is by definition means of exchange. You can't say: "a Bugatti costs $1M because it's tradable". That's stupid. It's the utilization capacity that matters. This is true for everything that is in the market. When buyers are checking a product they basically check its utilization capacity.

Utilization capacity of a security is how much value will the last holder of a security get from the issuer at the security withdrawal from the market. If for e.g. a bond issuer offers $1,000 face value that's the utilization capacity and the market price will be around that level. No one will pay you $1M for a bond with $1,0000 face value.


We know that bitcoin issuer/issuers don't withdraw bitcoin from the market to give something to the last bitcoin holders. So, bitcoin has zero utilization capacity in that sense. Bitcoin is not a security like bonds, stocks or fiat currencies are. Which means that bitcoin must have utilization capacity the same as economic goods have. And in bitcoin, this utilization capacity is the ability to be watched on the screen. It is not the ability to be driven, eaten, turned into energy or jewelry, etc. It's simply the ability to be watched. What I am asking is why would I pay $38,000 for that? People in this topic are ignoring this question. But instead, they repeat, in various ways, that bitcoin has generic feature of all things that exist on the market, that it is "tradable", that it is a "means of exchange", etc. Or they say bitcoin is easy to store and transfer. Well, a needle is tradable the same as a Bugatti. The needle is easier to store and transfer than a Bugatti. But would you trade the latter for the former? So, what I am interested to know is why would I give you a Bugatti for a needle? Why would I give you a thing with a huge utilization capacity for a thing with immensely small utilization capacity? Why would I give you a Bugatti for number "50"? Can you answer the question?

car dealerships dont secure a car whereby a dealership is obligated to buy back the car when it is no longer drivable.

also all cars drive, but why buy a bughatti when you can buy a audi..

bitcoin is not just A number or A method of transport(value transfer). it has many other features that make it better than other methods of transport(value transfer).

you keep neglecting to see the features that make it better and just want to make this basic argument

'why buy a bughatti that just sits in my garage where the dealership wont give me anything if it stops running'
you are ignoring that a bughatti can drive. you are ignoring that a bughatti can do things faster easier then other vehicles. just to argue that a bughatti is just a object to look at in your garage that has no security and no function

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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February 03, 2022, 11:46:30 AM
 #75

[...]
We're not a store here, sir. We're making dialogue. We're not obligated to assist you.

Here, I also ask about a product - bitcoin. And your answer is: "You're paying any amount of dollars to use a currency that is different in character."
Yes, that's my answer. That's the main reason people use Bitcoin. The fact that you don't like this answer doesn't make it not true. Allow me to tell you that not every person thinks exactly as you do.
I came here because here are the people that know bitcoin just like in a store there's a salesman that knows the products he sells. And when I ask this salesman about a particular product I am not interested why people buy or sell this product, but what is this product and what will I actually get after buying it. So if you are unable to answer my questions then simply don't reply. I am not interested in your sophistry.
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February 03, 2022, 11:52:53 AM
Merited by BlackHatCoiner (1)
 #76

I came here because here are the people that know bitcoin just like in a store there's a salesman that knows the products he sells. And when I ask this salesman about a particular product I am not interested why people buy or sell this product, but what is this product and what will I actually get after buying it. So if you are unable to answer my questions then simply don't reply. I am not interested in your sophistry.

but YOU are the one that is not listening to the sales men when they explain its features that are different to other things.
you just say "its a product on a bench" repeatedly, not wanting to accept its utility and function and benefits beyond "a product"

if i showed you a fiat analog phone, a crypto smartphone you wont want to hear about the different things they can do.
you dont even want to admit they are phones. you just say "its a product"

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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February 03, 2022, 12:01:54 PM
 #77

So if you are unable to answer my questions then simply don't reply. I am not interested in your sophistry.
I'm very able of replying to your questions. You're just perpetually denying them, because they're not favoring you. You've spared so much time to create videos explaining why Bitcoin is meaningless and therefore, you want to be biased towards it.

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February 03, 2022, 12:09:44 PM
Last edit: February 03, 2022, 12:32:14 PM by mprep
 #78

I came here because here are the people that know bitcoin just like in a store there's a salesman that knows the products he sells. And when I ask this salesman about a particular product I am not interested why people buy or sell this product, but what is this product and what will I actually get after buying it. So if you are unable to answer my questions then simply don't reply. I am not interested in your sophistry.

but YOU are the one that is not listening to the sales men when they explain its features that are different to other things.
you just say "its a product on a bench" repeatedly, not wanting to accept its utility and function and benefits beyond "a product"

if i showed you a fiat analog phone, a crypto smartphone you wont want to hear about the different things they can do.
you dont even want to admit they are phones. you just say "its a product"
You people are the problem. You are unable to answer what is bitcoin and what I actually get after buying it. You are using generic words like "currency", "product", "medium of exchange". What is a currency? Well, a word. What is definition of a word currency? Well, a group of words. What you must show is not words, but actual thing that I can benefit from. For e.g. a fiat currency is an actual debt. When that debt is paid I as a fiat currency holder recieve actual goods, services or labour from the borrowers. So, numbers on by banking account are an actual debt. What are numbers in your bitcoin wallet? Ownership of what will I actually get after becoming the holder of these numbers?



So if you are unable to answer my questions then simply don't reply. I am not interested in your sophistry.
I'm very able of replying to your questions. You're just perpetually denying them, because they're not favoring you. You've spared so much time to create videos explaining why Bitcoin is meaningless and therefore, you want to be biased towards it.
If bitcoin is not meaningless than you are able to answer what do I actually become the owner of after purchasing bitcoin?

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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February 03, 2022, 12:28:01 PM
 #79

You people are the problem. You are unable to answer what is bitcoin and what I actually get after buying it.
Of course, people are the problem. You're right and everyone else is wrong. You can't understand that something which is not tangible can be utilized. The answer you're looking is on the main page of Bitcoin's wiki:

Bitcoin is P2P electronic cash that is valuable over legacy systems because of the monetary autonomy it brings to its users. Bitcoin seeks to address the root problem with conventional currency: all the trust that's required to make it work -- Not that justified trust is a bad thing, but trust makes systems brittle, opaque, and costly to operate. Trust failures result in systemic collapses, trust curation creates inequality and monopoly lock-in, and naturally arising trust choke-points can be abused to deny access to due process. Through the use of cryptographic proof, decentralized networks and open source software Bitcoin minimizes and replaces these trust costs.

If you haven't got it, yet, you're problematic.

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February 03, 2022, 12:41:52 PM
Last edit: February 03, 2022, 01:03:21 PM by franky1
 #80

heres some highlights
You'll be able to use an internet currency that is censorship resistant, borderless, fast and online 24/7/365.

the way that its a currency that offers different features that banks dont
the way that its a currency that offers different less restrictions than banks do
how you can hand it to another owner without needing to explain reasons
how you can buy things with it
how you can be the sole controller of transfers
how it is irreversible
how its immutable
how it does not rely on government involvement
how its deflationary, to hedge against inflation
you can treat it like a 'trust' without having to get a solicitor/lawyer to draw up 'trust documents'
you can use it like an off-shore tax shelter. store value without having to do any banking shuffling
keep it as a pension pot
assign it as inheritance without having to do complex Will's or contracts

ill expand more
censorship resistant,
 - no bank/government can stop bitcoin transaction due to some social political racism or just wanting to be a bother
borderless
 - as long as there is internet, bitcoin can be sent and received anywhere  
fast
 - instant zero-confirm, and average confirm settlement in 10-30mins
online 24/7/365.
 - no downtime
 - no bank/office opening hours
 - no 'down for maintenance' server loss time
the way that its a currency that offers different features that banks dont
 - no ID required to get a private key to store value with
 - no need to explain why you are transacting
 - no need to link phone number to get calls to check with you that its you
 - complete settlement in ~10mins. unlike visa that can be 48 hours
 - no 180 day fund reversal policy (chargeback)
 - instant payment if you accept zero-confirm
 - visa requires you to reveal your spending secret, (long number, expiry, cvv number, name on card)
     - meaning once they have it they can keep withdrawing, multiple times
     - yet bitcoin signatures are unique to each transaction meaning they can only claim what is offered in that one transaction, once
the way that its a currency that offers different less restrictions than banks do
 - no $500 ATM limit
 - no $1000 limit, before being monitored by AML
 - no $10,000 limit before being monitored by AML and tax office
how you can buy things with it
 - hundreds of thousands of retailers/businesses
how you can be the sole controller of transfers
 - private key storage in multiple different ways
how it is irreversible
 - no refund, chargeback that can remove funds without your consent
how its immutable
 - once confirmed its your and only yours
how it does not rely on government involvement
 - no central entity controls the accounting nor decides whats valid/rejectable
how its deflationary, to hedge against inflation
 - buy more loaves of bread in long term future
you can treat it like a 'trust' without having to get a solicitor/lawyer to draw up 'trust documents'
 - just send funds to an address. done
 - use multisig if you want, say 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 5 people to chair the trust
you can use it like an off-shore tax shelter. store value without having to do any banking shuffling
 - just send funds to an address. done
keep it as a pension pot
 - just send funds to an address. done
assign it as inheritance without having to do complex Will's or contracts
- set a lock on the value that expires at childs X birthday. give him the private key knowing he cant spend until X date

and thats just the simple average joe benefits.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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