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Author Topic: Bitcoin is doomed. Thanks IRS!!! You Ass hats!  (Read 19183 times)
Beliathon
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March 28, 2014, 08:54:02 PM
 #121

Trend and price before 1 month:


Trend and price today:
See you again within a month with trend lines and current price.
Good job using only the latest two months out of 3 years of sustained growth to make your horrendously short-sighted, mathematically-flawed argument.

Which government or Wall Street Pump n Dump firm do you work for?

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 28, 2014, 08:58:43 PM
 #122

I don't really care if the United States government embrace Bitcion as a currency.  I far more interested in what the American people embrace it as  and yes the rest of the global population if that was already obvious.
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March 28, 2014, 09:04:33 PM
 #123

I don't really care if the United States government embrace Bitcion as a currency.  I far more interested in what the American people embrace it as  and yes the rest of the global population if that was already obvious.

The IRS just legitimized bitcoin.  How could they embrace it any warmer without writing laws that favour bitcoin over other asset classes?  Did people really think the IRS would say "capital gains tax applies to all assets except bitcoin because it is special"?  The guidance simply says that if you realize a capital gain on bitcoin, that you should voluntarily report that gain and pay the appropriate taxes.  But this was the law before the guidance was issued too.  

Check out the post on ZGL wallets to see how voluntarily complying with US tax law could become a breeze. 

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March 28, 2014, 09:06:11 PM
 #124

If the IRS wants to make taxing Bitcoin a pain, then they are going the wrong way, a lot of Americans will still be using Bitcoin and the IRS will just make it harder on themselves to collect any sort of taxes. Trust me, Bitcoin isn't doomed, but the quicker the governments get on the train and accept Bitcoin for what it is, the quicker they will have any chance for it to be more regulated to a point they would prefer.

I don't think it's doomed, but the Subject sure invoked some strong emotional reactions. LoL.

I think you're right, they are just creating a really difficult situation for themselves to enforce.
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March 28, 2014, 09:08:33 PM
 #125

bitcoin is only useful if its used as currency - no adoption - no value.

Hey, if you keep saying it, it might be true.

Apparently, it's only useful to you if it's used as a currency. That isn't true for me. So, either I am a lone crazy person, or there is some merit to what I am saying. Either way, it's clear you won't be convinced.

just out of curiosity, how is bitcoin useful to you (or anyone else for that matter) if you can't buy anything with it.

For me, a store of wealth and a currency are two different things.

As a currency it may seem less liquid than a dollar at the moment. But remember the confirmation time for a credit card is like 80 days, and chargebacks seem to be getting more common. from a vendors perspective credit cards are getting worse by the day. Bitcoin is already sweet if you're selling goods.

As a wealth store I see BTC as being far more liquid than precious metals.

And of course nobody would store wealth in fiat fractional reseve bank as the math shows that system as untenable. Nobody wants to be the dumb empty bag holder when the game finishes.

BTC is a game also, but the rules are clearly stated, provided the rules remain unchanged then (to me) the game looks far less risky than fiat and fractional reserve. Of course one should factor in the risks and diversify accordingly, for example; future national firewalls and EMP attacks, you'd be better of with a few silver rounds in that case.

Having said all this; In the future I can imagine a fractional reserve layer built on top of Bitcoin, and then the citizens can have instant gratification and full liquidity (at a cost). In fact I'm sure this will happen as many people will like it this way.

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March 28, 2014, 09:31:01 PM
 #126


For me, a store of wealth and a currency are two different things.

As a currency it may seem less liquid than a dollar at the moment. But remember the confirmation time for a credit card is like 80 days, and chargebacks seem to be getting more common. from a vendors perspective credit cards are getting worse by the day. Bitcoin is already sweet if you're selling goods.

As a wealth store I see BTC as being far more liquid than precious metals.

And of course nobody would store wealth in fiat fractional reseve bank as the math shows that system as untenable. Nobody wants to be the dumb empty bag holder when the game finishes.

BTC is a game also, but the rules are clearly stated, provided the rules remain unchanged then (to me) the game looks far less risky than fiat and fractional reserve. Of course one should factor in the risks and diversify accordingly, for example; future national firewalls and EMP attacks, you'd be better of with a few silver rounds in that case.

Having said all this; In the future I can imagine a fractional reserve layer built on top of Bitcoin, and then the citizens can have instant gratification and full liquidity (at a cost). In fact I'm sure this will happen as many people will like it this way.


Well stated.

I might add that what I would call 'second tier' (rather than 'fractional reserve layers' which they may or may not be) would themselves have the tools to inspire confidence if built on top of (or 'backed') by something which is simple, solid, and transparent such as current Bitcoin.

This in contrast to the variety of dubious derivative ridden re-hypothicated asset types upon which most of our 'modern mainstream' systems rest.  Let's not forget 2008 and how fragile these things have already proven to be.  It's more than some sort of whacked theory that there are some stability problems and poorly understood mechanics which underpin our 'official' economic systems.


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March 28, 2014, 10:23:31 PM
 #127


For me, a store of wealth and a currency are two different things.

As a currency it may seem less liquid than a dollar at the moment. But remember the confirmation time for a credit card is like 80 days, and chargebacks seem to be getting more common. from a vendors perspective credit cards are getting worse by the day. Bitcoin is already sweet if you're selling goods.

As a wealth store I see BTC as being far more liquid than precious metals.

And of course nobody would store wealth in fiat fractional reseve bank as the math shows that system as untenable. Nobody wants to be the dumb empty bag holder when the game finishes.

BTC is a game also, but the rules are clearly stated, provided the rules remain unchanged then (to me) the game looks far less risky than fiat and fractional reserve. Of course one should factor in the risks and diversify accordingly, for example; future national firewalls and EMP attacks, you'd be better of with a few silver rounds in that case.

Having said all this; In the future I can imagine a fractional reserve layer built on top of Bitcoin, and then the citizens can have instant gratification and full liquidity (at a cost). In fact I'm sure this will happen as many people will like it this way.


Well stated.

I might add that what I would call 'second tier' (rather than 'fractional reserve layers' which they may or may not be) would themselves have the tools to inspire confidence if built on top of (or 'backed') by something which is simple, solid, and transparent such as current Bitcoin.

This in contrast to the variety of dubious derivative ridden re-hypothicated asset types upon which most of our 'modern mainstream' systems rest.  Let's not forget 2008 and how fragile these things have already proven to be.  It's more than some sort of whacked theory that there are some stability problems and poorly understood mechanics which underpin our 'official' economic systems.

Thanks, and good statement from yourself.

Yes I would prefer a future where the "purity" of Bitcoin remains intact.

I just haven't heard of any plans to ensure future purity for all users.

Speaking of users, I fear the "bulk" users might be happy to allow the corruption, confused as they are, it's easy for large players to instill fear with one hand and remove fear (and wealth) with the other.

I'm thinking: Isn't it possible for anyone to create a new layer on top of Bitcoin tomorrow? It may not even need to be directly coupled to it codewise, think a Bretton Woods system using BTC instead of gold.

A darker fear of mine is that prior to new layers the existing blockchain might be abandoned if some entity has pockets deep enough to bribe miners to a new chain.

Highly speculative stuff I know Cheesy, but I'll be happy to have my fears dispelled.

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March 29, 2014, 03:11:02 AM
 #128

Bitcoin is tanking and that is totally understandable. If they can't track and tax it, they might ban it

How would go about doing that?
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March 29, 2014, 03:59:32 AM
 #129

Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario.  The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people.  0%... hard to beat that.

0% for most people?
What is needed to go above 0%?
Sorry I have no idea.

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March 29, 2014, 04:53:51 AM
 #130

Has anyone questioned the idea of a country in the first place? This idea of people being treated differently whether you live on one side of a geological border or the other side is actually kind of obsurd and antiquated. People are people and we all have the intrinsic right to pursue happiness and freedom.

With that rant off my chest, since it seems we (the majority of people as a collective) are going to recognize geographic bound governments and their authority to collect money to pay for stuff we want (again - the majority), then let's do a few comparisons for fun.

How does the same "Bitcoin is property" idea apply to loyalty points (points.com), cell phone minutes, Internet megabytes, basketball game tickets, and food? Every one of these can go up and down in value. If there is an increase, presumably we must pay a tax. If they go down, presumably we get a credit (but never a refund). And why is currency not treated as property?

Just a few questions for which I have no answers.
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March 29, 2014, 05:42:17 AM
 #131

Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario.  The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people.  0%... hard to beat that.

0% for most people?
What is needed to go above 0%?
Sorry I have no idea.

In my non-professional understanding, one simply has to stay in the lower two tax brackets for earned income.  That could mean that one is basically forced to quit one's job.

It's also worth note that this is federal tax.  State tax is a different matter.  Looks like I'll be paying 9% in state taxes for instance.


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March 29, 2014, 07:05:03 AM
 #132

Ok, read most of the thread. This may have been answered.


What about people in the States that only mine BTC and do not spend USD on it? I've sold about $250 worth of BTC on coinbase. How do I fall into this new law? Also I'm under $14k a year thanks to hour cuts. =/
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March 29, 2014, 07:17:54 AM
 #133

Am I right in saying that there's no taxation taking place in Denmark?

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March 29, 2014, 11:57:55 AM
 #134

I don't really care if the United States government embrace Bitcion as a currency.  I far more interested in what the American people embrace it as  and yes the rest of the global population if that was already obvious.

The IRS just legitimized bitcoin.  How could they embrace it any warmer without writing laws that favour bitcoin over other asset classes?  Did people really think the IRS would say "capital gains tax applies to all assets except bitcoin because it is special"?  The guidance simply says that if you realize a capital gain on bitcoin, that you should voluntarily report that gain and pay the appropriate taxes.  But this was the law before the guidance was issued too. 

Check out the post on ZGL wallets to see how voluntarily complying with US tax law could become a breeze. 

+1.

This was bound to happen. It's not good news.
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March 29, 2014, 01:01:46 PM
 #135

I don't really care if the United States government embrace Bitcion as a currency.  I far more interested in what the American people embrace it as  and yes the rest of the global population if that was already obvious.

The IRS just legitimized bitcoin.  How could they embrace it any warmer without writing laws that favour bitcoin over other asset classes?  Did people really think the IRS would say "capital gains tax applies to all assets except bitcoin because it is special"?  The guidance simply says that if you realize a capital gain on bitcoin, that you should voluntarily report that gain and pay the appropriate taxes.  But this was the law before the guidance was issued too. 

Check out the post on ZGL wallets to see how voluntarily complying with US tax law could become a breeze. 

+1.

This was bound to happen. It's not good news.
+2
I really don't want to see this happen.

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March 29, 2014, 01:49:31 PM
 #136

its good news.. because u pay wad u gain.. the good news is.. u can volunteer to pay when u do it in bitcoin =)

so its GOOD news get it?
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March 29, 2014, 01:51:26 PM
 #137

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-bitcoin-can-no-longer-work-as-a-virtual-currency-in-1-paragraph/359648/

I hate to admit it, but this story makes a lot of sense.

We can't legally trade BTC for BTC, we taxes at every level because its property not currency.....

Can someone please provide another, hopefully more positive, way to look at this?

Im going to repeat, but only because of how annoying it is when my fellow Americans think they are the center of the universe, and the only country in the world.

Ban Bitcoin in america, and it wont amount to a hill of beans for Bitcoin's ability to continue elsewhere.

The USA is not the only country in the world, and outside our borders, few countries give a shit what the IRS says.

Think Globally folks. 

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March 29, 2014, 03:22:00 PM
 #138

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-bitcoin-can-no-longer-work-as-a-virtual-currency-in-1-paragraph/359648/

I hate to admit it, but this story makes a lot of sense.

We can't legally trade BTC for BTC, we taxes at every level because its property not currency.....

Can someone please provide another, hopefully more positive, way to look at this?

Im going to repeat, but only because of how annoying it is when my fellow Americans think they are the center of the universe, and the only country in the world.

Ban Bitcoin in america, and it wont amount to a hill of beans for Bitcoin's ability to continue elsewhere.

The USA is not the only country in the world, and outside our borders, few countries give a shit what the IRS says.

Think Globally folks. 

-B-

perhaps bitcoin will prosper in the real free countries of the world, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, New Zealand.
its obvious the debt ridden USA has deteriorated into financial tyranny.
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March 29, 2014, 07:16:56 PM
 #139

perhaps bitcoin will prosper in the real free countries of the world, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, Switzerland, New Zealand.
its obvious the debt ridden USA has deteriorated into financial tyranny.

The legal requirement to pay taxes is really nothing new since 1924 in the USA.  Al Capone's conviction and prison sentence was evidence of that.

What is the most onerous is the provisions from the Patriot Act, which brought in the KYC/AML laws, probably the strongest in the world.   Now the rest of the world is beginning to discriminate against Americans, since they don't want the long arm of the IRS violating their sovereignty.  i.e. Switzerland.
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March 30, 2014, 01:01:19 AM
 #140

 

For a good look at the currency of the future take a look at Mintcoin It's a new energy efficient Eco friendly coin with a growing number of Merchants and services
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