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Author Topic: Bitcoin is doomed. Thanks IRS!!! You Ass hats!  (Read 19181 times)
J_Dubbs
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March 31, 2014, 01:15:17 AM
 #161

This says it all for miners, not a single rig breaks even on the list at current rates. https://tradeblock.com/mining/ Bear in mind that some big rigs aren't on that list as they don't yet exist and are pre-order and that is the only way to get a competitive rig...so many people are locked in now and difficulty will rise even if not as fast as their estimates.

Resale of rigs won't be great, who will want one ?

The current situation is pretty much a dark hole for miners, losing out on just about everything, coins mined slashed in value, rigs worth less, future hardly worth the juice. In the U.S. ..some tax paperwork to sort out to possibly recover losses, elsewhere just losses. Even if we don't sail down past 400 like we did past the 500 everyone was bleating we'd bounce back from.

If you pre-ordered with bitcoin the chances are you won't see a refund, Paypal you have a shot...that's ironic.

Who's left that can afford to mine? The big boys. Producing rigs at cost, or buying them ..and with access to dirt cheap power.
That was never the idea was it, to create a few large entities controlling most of the coin production? Sad

I've got cubes listed on Ebay, thinking of yanking my auction. I know I can turn around and buy an Antminer, sell low buy low, but it seems crazy that cubes are selling so cheap. I mean it makes sense, it's where the market it at, but I'll be damned I was turning down offers on cubes last week for $200- should have just sold them all at that price. I'm just looking to have fast turnaround and get another Antminer hooked up, but don't want to run these cubes in the summer and don't have any power outlets left in my apartment.



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March 31, 2014, 03:47:36 AM
 #162

I don't care shit about IRS Im not an American. USA is not the whole world.

No..... but it is more than half of the bitcoin market.  yes.... seriously, it is. So, when something happens in America, attention needs to be paid.

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March 31, 2014, 04:15:44 AM
 #163

I don't think Bitcoin can be doomed  due to being tax classified as 'property'. I think this is a positive development as a huge tax lacuna has been removed and Bitcoin has received a perfectly LEGAL status.

In medium to long term this classification should be quite beneficial to the Bitcoin price as considerable number of property investors will likely turn to Bitcoin in order to diversify their portfolios (same tax rate as property - finite supply - far better capital gains ).

On the other hand, when Bitcoin is used to buy everyday merchandise (e.g. grocery) by public, there should not be a problem with capital gains calculations on each small or large transaction because simple and free Bitcoin accounting Apps can take care of it automatically and seamlessly - without the user needing to record transactions. This is as good as it gets.

Price Poll: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=555609
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March 31, 2014, 04:17:14 AM
 #164

Just chill out gosh! lol  Grin


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March 31, 2014, 07:02:31 AM
 #165

if you happen to make a lot on trading or mining you pretty much have to leave the states now.
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March 31, 2014, 11:57:49 AM
 #166

I also don't consider this to be anything spectacular and in no way detrimental to Bitcoin. It is just this time because price is down and people panicking which makes the conversation tense.
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March 31, 2014, 02:38:08 PM
 #167

China will crash you

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March 31, 2014, 02:46:53 PM
 #168

OP = clueless frightened speculating poorper, who was praying for a get-rich-quick scheme, and is now panicking because it's taking longer than they thought.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 31, 2014, 02:56:21 PM
 #169

if bitcoin dies then what other alternative does the usa have to replace the dying dollar reserve currency ??
If Bitcoin dies, America is fucked. FUBAR. Bankrupt. Dead country walking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQdmsL147j0

Cryptocurrency is literally the only hope for Americans today.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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March 31, 2014, 03:01:58 PM
 #170

I don't get why everyone is incensed by this tax? Of all the unfair taxes you pay, all the unholy rules to keep you (the little man) out of markets, why are you complaining about capitol gains? Those are rich guy taxes. You pay more on the money you earn from hard work than capitol gains. Now if your problem is with how the tax money is spent, then I understand your grief. But this is about the best ruling we could hope for.

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

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March 31, 2014, 06:08:27 PM
 #171

I also don't consider this to be anything spectacular and in no way detrimental to Bitcoin. It is just this time because price is down and people panicking which makes the conversation tense.

+1




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March 31, 2014, 06:39:03 PM
 #172

I read a few pages of this thread, and it is obvious most of you have no idea what this actually means.

To give a simple example, it's basically equivalents to require a business (walmart, amazon or mom&pop) OR an individual to file and report EVERY SINGLE bitcoin transaction - what you earned and spent, on schedule D etc.. for capital gain consideration. So if got my paycheck that is 10BTC, spend 0.05BTC on milk, 1BTC on xbox, etc.. i must file each line item detailing the cost basis (usd/btc when i obtained the 10 bitcoin paycheck) and gain/loss (usd/btc) when i spent the said 0.05BTC for milk, xbox etc..

Obviously that can never function.

It effectively in 1 fell swoop destroyed bitcoin as a unit of currency(that can be used for goods/services) in the USA, AND ensures the dollar will never be replaced or lowered in the foodchain.

I guaranteed you companies like overstock and tigerdirect are now having a facepalm moment, consulting their tax attorneys on how to report this mess on their taxes.

It is bad, it removes the main function of bitcoin - as a currency.  Now bitcoin can only be used as a store of value like precious metals, but that only work if people still perceive it has value.  

If you are nervous, you should be. How this all unfolds in the next 12 month will have a material impact on bitcoin and crypto currency as a whole.



Having bitcoin classified as property rather than currency is the best possible scenario.  The capital gains tax rate is 0% for most people.  0%... hard to beat that.

no it's not the best possible scenario, what have you been smoking exactly?

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March 31, 2014, 06:43:28 PM
 #173

File and report EVERY SINGLE bitcoin transaction...Obviously that can never function.

Check out the concept of ZGL wallets and coins here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0

This guidance was a positive as it gives clarity to larger players interested in entering the bitcoin space.

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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March 31, 2014, 06:48:23 PM
 #174

One thing that tells you this article is point blank retarded...

They talk about taxing each bitcoin you have differently based on how much it was when you bought it etc. There is no way of tracking this and this is not how the taxes work. If you trade BTC for BTC you don't get taxed. If you spend BTC for services and goods there is NO TAX.

If you cash out 1 million dollars worth of BTC to USD you better believe you need to pay taxes and if you think you did not have to do this before the IRS announcement you don't make shit in the first place so don't worry about it.

nazban @Freenode
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March 31, 2014, 06:50:50 PM
 #175

File and report EVERY SINGLE bitcoin transaction...Obviously that can never function.

Check out the concept of ZGL wallets and coins here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0

This guidance was a positive as it gives clarity to larger players interested in entering the bitcoin space.

while the concept behind is well intentioned and similar to what your stock broker does.  what we are discussing here is bitcoin as a CURRENCY (not a commodity that trades on the exchanges).

What that means is using it to buy milk down the street, and retails accepting it and give you milk. That was the goal of bitcoin ultimately and what all those payment processors like bitpay is build for.  

This IRS ruling essentially kill it in usa. It's the same as reporting every single penny you earned and spent as capital gains on your form. No business nor individual will accept that, that's why you dont see gold/silver coins/bars accepted as payment in walmart/target.  

There is unfortunately no way around this, unless IRS changes the ruling.

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newguy05
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March 31, 2014, 06:53:51 PM
 #176

One thing that tells you this article is point blank retarded...

They talk about taxing each bitcoin you have differently based on how much it was when you bought it etc. There is no way of tracking this and this is not how the taxes work. If you trade BTC for BTC you don't get taxed. If you spend BTC for services and goods there is NO TAX.

If you cash out 1 million dollars worth of BTC to USD you better believe you need to pay taxes and if you think you did not have to do this before the IRS announcement you don't make shit in the first place so don't worry about it.

you buy 10 shares of apple stock $700, then bought 10 more shares at $400.  You sell 15 shares of apple stock at $600, then bought 15 shares again at $500 later. Guess what?  they are tracked EXACTLY like that.  You need to figure out your cost basis individually even if it's the same stock.

This is what the IRS ruling does to bitcoins, you need a better understanding before calling the article retarded.

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Peter R
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March 31, 2014, 06:54:15 PM
 #177

File and report EVERY SINGLE bitcoin transaction...Obviously that can never function.

Check out the concept of ZGL wallets and coins here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0

This guidance was a positive as it gives clarity to larger players interested in entering the bitcoin space.

...There is unfortunately no way around this, unless IRS changes the ruling.


No way around what?  Did you read the thread?  ZGL wallets (once available) would be an effortless way to ensure compliance with US tax laws should you choose to report to the IRS.  What are you suggesting is the problem with the concept?  The guidance that bitcoin is property seems actually helpful.  

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designfail
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March 31, 2014, 07:04:49 PM
 #178

Doomed..

Pretty sure if BTC some how crashed to $1... this forum would buy all BTC out there.  BTC is just stopping for fuel.

there are trolls from both sides.. I remember there were screams like "if it drops to $750, I will be buying if there is no tomorrow"..
..sorry, no offense.. just to make sure newcomers are not overwhelmed by reading "btc will hit 5K+ by the end of 2014 - that's for sure"..
newguy05
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March 31, 2014, 07:08:23 PM
 #179

File and report EVERY SINGLE bitcoin transaction...Obviously that can never function.

Check out the concept of ZGL wallets and coins here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0

This guidance was a positive as it gives clarity to larger players interested in entering the bitcoin space.

...There is unfortunately no way around this, unless IRS changes the ruling.


No way around what?  Did you read the thread?  ZGL wallets (once available) would be an effortless way to ensure compliance with US tax laws should you choose to report to the IRS.  What are you suggesting is the problem with the concept?  The guidance that bitcoin is property seems actually helpful.  

it's just an automated way of reporting your gain/loss and best effort algorithm to match cost basis = sale price. that's been used for decades in the financial market as a way to simplify tax reportings.

Again we are talking about bitcoin as a currency, it doesnt change the fact every single transaction - buy coffer, buy milk, buy toilet paper will need to be reported to irs.  Then you look from the business side what they have to report.

It's just not feasible nor practical. For a currency to work, 1 unit of value needs to always equal 1 unit of value, you cannot apply gain/loss to it - fungibility is destroyed by irs hence the function as a currency is destroyed.

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Peter R
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March 31, 2014, 07:22:55 PM
 #180

File and report EVERY SINGLE bitcoin transaction...Obviously that can never function.

Check out the concept of ZGL wallets and coins here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=531135.0

This guidance was a positive as it gives clarity to larger players interested in entering the bitcoin space.

...There is unfortunately no way around this, unless IRS changes the ruling.


No way around what?  Did you read the thread?  ZGL wallets (once available) would be an effortless way to ensure compliance with US tax laws should you choose to report to the IRS.  What are you suggesting is the problem with the concept?  The guidance that bitcoin is property seems actually helpful.  

it's just an automated way of reporting your gain/loss and best effort algorithm to match cost basis = sale price. that's been used for decades in the financial market as a way to simplify tax reportings.


Yes.  It makes it very easy to comply with US tax law regardless of how many transactions you make.

We still have not received clarity on which transactions should voluntarily be reported.  There is a strong argument that transactions that result in a loss (or at least no gain) do not need to be reported.  Otherwise, we'd be required to report to the IRS every second-hand item we sell on Craigslist.  

ZGL works regardless of the reporting requirements, although you have better privacy if you only report the swaps where you realized a gain.

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