Services that threatens the forum

[Mr.right85]

SERVICES THAT SHOULD BE ABORTED

I might be wrong but my ideas about bitcointalkforum was that, its first and foremost, a learning field before it accommodates other forms of activities that could result in an individual earning some passive income.

I am at the verge of learning even more right now, haven't been previously absent from the forum following certain events of last year, events that i hinted in this post: What happened to my motivation but, I'm here now and have taken to reading and exploring the forum. I might understand why some ideas are left to persist on the forum like, buying of accounts although discouraged, buying a corper membership, allowing scam accused platforms to run a signature on the forum but, there is one I don't really feel in way is indirectly against forum ethics or the core value of this idea.

To present this more accurately, I would direct our minds back to the word 'SPAMMING'.

Spamming as I understand it, applies to when a user posts contents just for the sake of posting and is not really interested in the discussion. Also, when a user posts concurrently and so forth. If you agree with me, that's a forum rule and I think I have been met by a service that would encourage that and I don't buy into the idea. I'll go straight to it right now because, I'm getting all emotional about it all of a sudden. Here is what prompted my post all of a sudden.

Bitcointalk posting services | $1-2 per post [2/5 available] by V3rtigo

Yeah, I see the negative Feedback on the account that saw it need to promote such service but, it in the context of preventing the damage before its made manifest, it doesn't seem enough. I don't know what to suggest but at least, simply deleting the thread from gaining awareness could be in th right order. What's more shameful about it is that, its a Hero Member account that is behind it all.

In regard of services, this is more damaging to the forum and I'll give reasons in no particular order.

1. It discourages the learning idea of this forum, either users still sticks to the part of not.
2. It seems to encourage spam either directly or otherwise.
3. It cheats or is knowledge depriving and discourages forum participation on the parts of other users (in the sense that: the user rendering the service might take the time out to be building his or herself by being involved on discussions while, the user employing such service won't).
4. It encourages only a sole idea (that of the service provider), displayed across other accounts.
5. It would encourage buying and creation of alt accounts.

I'll like to keep it brief so, I'll live it here. Although, I still say it now that such threads shouldn't be allowed to gain publicity or persist on the forum. The account has been tagged but still, it gains contacts and you know why?

* Your paying half in services rendered and complete only at the week ending (that seems fair).
* It doesn't ask for your account details (username, password, mail address or wallet address).
* It sticks to privacy and it activities starts outside the forum.

Still, I would like to warn those employing such services that, its not in your best interest.

_ It always gets real when it comes to writing and people do run out of ideas. In times like that, a plagiarised content can be sent to you or even, a content sent to other users that employs such service might be sent to you and by posting a content that had originally been posted on the forum, it would be seen as plagiarism. This you would be sure that, forum rules would apply.
_ You would be depriving yourself of knowledge the forum teaches.

IN CONCLUSION:
By virtue of my bringing this thread to meta by creating OP, I might have created some awareness of the said service by bringing it further to the people but, it is my wish that, the forum might find a permanent solution to tackle issues such as these, that could undermine the integrity and erode the values of the forum. Lets do our best to put the forum first and haven't said all these, live you to it.

[AB de Royse777]

Bitcointalk posting services | $1-2 per post [2/5 available] by V3rtigo

You can always report a post if you think it's negative spirit for the community. The mods will handle it if they agree with you.

the forum might find a permanent solution to tackle issues such as these

It's in right bottom corner of the post that is in question. The liked text calls, Report to moderator :-D

[lovesmayfamilis]

There is already a thread about this account. I don't think META needs another discussion. All your suggestions are relevant to the topic, although you are not the first to understand that this kind of service harms the forum. Nevertheless, it is difficult to enclose the forum with an iron curtain from empty people who seek to make money easily.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5388359.0

[Pmalek]

The way I understand that service offer is that it's meant for people who are part of a signature campaign but don't have enough time to meet the weekly quota. This V3rtigo dude is apparently willing to help with that and in exchange he receives a part of your weekly fee. There can also be other reasons why someone would want another person to create posts for them.

I see this more of a problem for the member who posts someone else's content because it could be plagiarized or of low quality. In terms of generated spam, I am not sure. Let's say the guy gets 3 clients. Each of his clients pay him to create 25 posts in their name. That's pretty much the standard weekly quota we see with many signature campaigns anyways.   

The service doesn't break any rules that I am aware of but no one respectable should use something like that.

[SatoPrincess]

Bitcointalk posting services | $1-2 per post [2/5 available] by V3rtigo

Yeah, I see the negative Feedback on the account that saw it need to promote such service but, it in the context of preventing the damage before its made manifest, it doesn't seem enough. I don't know what to suggest but at least, simply deleting the thread from gaining awareness could be in th right order.

Charles-Tim created a thread on Reputation about the account and DT members immediately took action. DTs painted the account red, the negative feedback on the account is enough to warn anyone who wants to use V3rtigo service. What more do you want?

What's more shameful about it is that, its a Hero Member account that is behind it all.

That could be a lie. And if it isn’t, we can’t know who is behind the V3rtigo account. Hero rank or legendary rank doesn’t make someone trustworthy 

By virtue of my bringing this thread to meta by creating OP, I might have created some awareness of the said service by bringing it further to the people but, it is my wish that, the forum might find a permanent solution to tackle issues such as these, that could undermine the integrity and erode the values of the forum. Lets do our best to put the forum first and haven't said all these, live you to it.

Imo if you want to create more awareness move this topic to beginners and help. The people who need this advice do not frequent Meta afaik merit sources and DTs are more in meta and most are already aware of the problem.

[Pmalek]

Imo if you want to create more awareness move this topic to beginners and help. The people who need this advice do not frequent Meta afaik merit sources and DTs are more in meta and most are already aware of the problem.

I don't think it's necessary. I don't see why a newbie or a relatively new forum user would be willing to pay someone to create posts on their behalf. Newbies can't participate in signature campaigns. Jr. Members can, but there are very few campaigns that accept them. Members have a few possibilities but the rates aren't that high to pay someone else $25 weekly to post in their name. 

[Coyster]

Yeah, I see the negative Feedback on the account that saw it need to promote such service but, it in the context of preventing the damage before its made manifest, it doesn't seem enough. I don't know what to suggest but at least, simply deleting the thread from gaining awareness could be in th right order.

So what would you suggest be done? I am afraid nothing can be done about that, the forum can't know the intentions of users before they come in here, and when a new user registers, he could either turn out to be an asset or a 'liability' to the forum, but there is actually no way to know which one it is beforehand, users are free to create accounts and join the forum when they want to, and even if they are operating from an evil/suspicious IP, all they have to do is pay a small fee and then they can post.

But having said that, Bitcointalk isn't going to do any 'censoring' or research for any user, before patronizing any service, it remains the duty of the 'customer' to do their own research to find out if it is good, bad or a scam (Just as it is when you want to invest in Bitcoin), we can't stop people from posting one service or the other that is somewhat unethical, the forum can only brandish such accounts as not-to-be-trusted, and warn others about them, for everyone who decides to still go ahead and break the rules, then if they are caught they will also be tagged. Do not worry about this too much, from my years here, the good users are always more in number, while the opposite ones are inconsequential only if you personally give them too much importance. Finally, i do not think the thread will be deleted, it is posted in the correct section (that is as much as you need do to make sure your post isn't deleted) and the OP is offering his service (though shitty/unethical), but it will stand, just ignore.

[RapTarX]

I don't know what to suggest but at least, simply deleting the thread from gaining awareness could be in th right order.

That would tag the moderation policy as double standard. There are many scam going on here; forum doesn’t moderate scam. There are a lot of shady services going here; you have the right to offer any services which doesn’t break the forum rule. So, why would this thread get deleted? I guess there's no point of talking about this other than tagging the account and ignore. People with lots of alts will find a way to post from all of their accounts in a way or other.

[isaac_clarke22]

Even outside the forum, this happens. I recall pointing out in a certain thread here that there was someone in Fiverr (I freelance btw) even offering to comment in whatever thread you desire in exchange of quite of an amount actually. I reported the gig and thankfully it was taken down though I was not sure when.
This was the gig:


It even has "packages" of spam.

As what others mentioned, just keep reporting these and that's the best that you can do.

Edit 1. As of writing this, I did another "bitcointalk" search in Fiverr and found this lol. I reported it.


Here's the link of the gig if anyone wants to report it as well - I will make comments on your bitcointalk announcement thread

[Falconer]

Services like this have been around for a long time with a low success rate and this isn't the first time I've come across such a service. I can't find an old thread about the same service but I believe it failed to get interest from bitcointalk users because of the risk at stake.

There are good guidelines for anyone to read and find out if it is a signature campaign operator or a signature campaign participant so anyone interested in such a service will think more things especially about post quality - Signature Campaign Guidelines (read this before starting or joining a campaign). Forum don't moderate scams and mod won't ban users from posting anything that isn't constructive, but mod have the capacity to ban spammers if they continue to spam with poor quality posts.

So you can't ask mods to moderate things like that even if it seems like an obvious scam but you just need to report more spam for the mod to deal with which would probably be a good start to keep spammers from staying on this forum especially if they participate in signature campaign. Anyway, I think we can appreciate your effort and good will for this forum.

[tranthidung]

You can always report a post if you think it's negative spirit for the community.

OP should read [Unofficial Guide] Reporting effectively (by @Welsh) to understand and practice reporting more effectively.

The mods will handle it if they agree with you.

Moderator usually handles report in either good or bad. There are few cases when moderator marks reports as unhandled. Sometimes, if you re-report a post, another moderator might be assigned and results can be different.

[Pmalek]

Edit 1. As of writing this, I did another "bitcointalk" search in Fiverr and found this lol. I reported it.
Here's the link of the gig if anyone wants to report it as well - I will make comments on your bitcointalk announcement thread

Good job. That one got taken down as well. Just curious, what do you write in those reports as reasons why the gigs should be removed? How are those services breaking Fiverr rules? I doubt Fiverr cares about what is happening on Bitcointalk and our local rules.

Moderator usually handles report in either good or bad. There are few cases when moderator marks reports as unhandled. Sometimes, if you re-report a post, another moderator might be assigned and results can be different.

I have a few unhandled reports that are several months old. I have never tried to report them a second time but that's an interesting suggestion that you made. I could glance through my stats and see if some of the posts still deserve to be deleted and see if the reports finally get handled. 

[Stalker22]

Edit 1. As of writing this, I did another "bitcointalk" search in Fiverr and found this lol. I reported it.
Here's the link of the gig if anyone wants to report it as well - I will make comments on your bitcointalk announcement thread

Good job. That one got taken down as well. Just curious, what do you write in those reports as reasons why the gigs should be removed? How are those services breaking Fiverr rules? I doubt Fiverr cares about what is happening on Bitcointalk and our local rules.

It appears that Fiverr really cares.

Prohibited Services:

Services that infringe third parties’ terms of service
We do not allow the infringement of third parties’ terms of service on Fiverr. As a valued member of the Fiverr community, we ask you to respect the broader Internet community and refrain from such violations in your Gig offerings. Gigs that are flagged for violations of third parties terms of service will be removed from the marketplace.

Do not post, offer, or ask for services that infringe third parties’ terms of service.

Misleading Services
Do not post, offer, or ask for:

Paid reviews
Positive or negative feedback on any product, service, or performance.

Testimonials
A written or spoken statement of a person extolling the virtues of a product or a service. 

Fake engagement and traffic
Followers, traffic, visitors, fans, views on social media platforms, or any other fake engagement on any platform.

Deepfakes
Deepfakes are created using artificial intelligence technology that superimposes the movements and words of one person onto another.

Services that promise outcomes that are not in your control
In certain instances, sellers may be tempted to promise outcomes of their service which is not in their control. For example, guaranteeing to restore your Amazon account or promising an exact amount of viewers for a Youtube video by its digital promotion. Please refrain from promising outcomes that are not in your control because it misleads buyers.

Fiverr's Community Standards

I guess this falls under "Fake engagement and traffic".

[isaac_clarke22]

Good job. That one got taken down as well. Just curious, what do you write in those reports as reasons why the gigs should be removed? How are those services breaking Fiverr rules? I doubt Fiverr cares about what is happening on Bitcointalk and our local rules.

I usually just state that "This gig encourages spam and low quality posts in Bitcointalk forum" and I just add the reference link redirecting to the rules of the forum so that they can at least get a reference. It's just weird that they don't give me an update of it being taken down through email or the Fiverr inbox.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

the forum might find a permanent solution to tackle issues such as these

It's in right bottom corner of the post that is in question. The liked text calls, Report to moderator :-D

Problem: One that's well-known to many members of the forum, especially older ones.  
Solution: Exactly what Royse777 wrote.  
End of thread.

I'll go straight to it right now because, I'm getting all emotional about it all of a sudden.

Don't know why you're overcome with emotion about some stupid idiot offering to post for money, but what I would suggest is that you try to make posts like the OP of this thread a bit more concise.  You're probably trying to earn merits, and I can tell you that while some members might fall for an extremely long post that kicks off a thread and give the person merits, what I see here is an extremely bloated mess of words and an issue that could have been summarized in a few sentences at most.

I've been guilty of prolixity on occasion, but I think in general I keep a lid on it.  Anyway, most problems like the one you've driven yourself into a tizzy about can be solved by simply reporting a rule-breaking post to the mods.

[Mr.right85]

We learn everyday and i must say, constant interaction with the forum builds a better understanding of not just the forums concept or approach to things but also, opens your mind to what could be obtainable and a better way to align rules with contradictions.

I have read through what all of you have said and its obvious we are all doing something to better place and secure the forum as it should be. That's okay, at least, should I come across services or threads that aren't okay with me, I know how or  have an idea on the best way of approach on reporting. Other than spilling my emotions in some lengthy post.

On the said service, I acknowledge to have gone over this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5388359.0

and have seen the progress that have been made through it. Deductions I got from your responses are summed up to be:

If you must start a thread of this nature on meta, It should be a brief summary.
Best action towards such services or threads, accurate reporting to moderators (report to Moderator button).
When it doesn't break any rule and still unacceptable, a negative feedback or reports could be the best line of action.

Nice one people, nice one!

[KingsDen]

I really do not understand what you want moderators to do in such case as presented by OP. Birds of a feather flocks together as they said. I personally do not think that I can trust anyone with my account or what to post on my account. I am unique, as well as my account, because my account is me.

...but what I would suggest is that you try to make posts like the OP of this thread a bit more concise...

Honestly, after reading the whole body of text, I asked myself what actually was the purpose of the thread. To create awareness of an unethical service?
It started by describing how you went AWOL and back for activities. I think the effort investment in the post is higher than the message passed and it ended up diluting the main message being passed.