Why Russia isn't using it's full force in Ukraine ? tactically ..

[suchmoon]

territory of the DPR territory of the LPR

The OSCE report doesn't say DPR or LPR (it says Donetsk and Lugansk regions) and it doesn't say which side violated the cease fire.

Nor should it matter to Russia, because all of this happened not in Russian territory.

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[DrBeer]

Well, what does Russia, as an aggressor, have to say? Lies, total and most stupid - this is one of the pillars of the "Russian world". Let me explain very simply with an example. Bucha, Irpin, Gostomel - were captured by Russian troops in the first weeks of the war. They themselves officially reported this in the media. The troops of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, defended the approaches to Kyiv. Since the capture of these cities, photo and video recordings, by the local population, of the crimes of the Nazis from Russia have already been collected there. These materials are easy to find on the web, date-stamped, geo-tagged. I was in Irpen, on the 2nd day, after the Russian terrorists were driven out of the city. In the streets, basements, ditches, buried, corpses were found that had already begun to decompose, were in a state of deep decomposition, corresponding to 1-2-3 weeks from the moment of death. This fully corresponds to the time of the capture of cities by terrorists of the Russian army rabble of sadists. So do not try to tell fake propaganda speeches here! Moreover, international observers recorded it all. So your sadists will be condemned, no matter how you try to hide it!

Here I want to say that Ukraine created a double Casus Belli on February 21, 2022, first by attacking by the forces of the DRG of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and 2 infantry fighting vehicles of the Armed Forces of Ukraine across the border of the Russian Federation in the area of the village of Mityakinskaya, Rostov Region, and then by artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine destroying the border checkpoint of the Russian Federation on the Shcherbakovo farm. This was three days before the start of the special operation. Therefore, who is the aggressor here is an interesting question. You are starting from a false premise, Casus Belli is Casus Belli.

How many times to repeat - here you are not Russian consumers of propaganda! Goebbels, having listened to you, would obviously have made a "hand-face"
Russian sources of information on the content of the truth have long achieved negative content! Stop filling the forum with fakes, and such primitive ones! In addition, everyone has long known that the Russian "reality" is built on a total lie.

Even if, assuming that your fake is true, what's wrong with that? After all, since 2014, Russia has attacked Ukraine, is waging a terrorist war here, killing Ukrainian citizens, annexed and occupied part of the territory?

You also give a link to Lukashenka's speech, where he explains how Ukraine wanted to attack him

To be honest, despite your opposite point of view, until recently it was interesting to have disputes or dialogues with you. now you have fallen to the level of primitive Russian propaganda, which only the inhabitants of Russia believe in. People with a normal mentality just smile at all these fakes. It's unfortunate that you're sinking to such a low level...

[kryptqnick]

I can see the discussion is heated up by passionate supporters of Russia, but I won't engage with that. I think it's a good question to ask to ensure we understand the current war well, and I'll try answering it as coldly as I can.
First, I want to say that the op said he'd bomb Kyiv like Mariupol or worse. I must say that there's this thing with Ukrainian national identity that it's built around the idea of freedom, rebellions, independence. The more bombings there are, the angrier people become, and the stronger the desire of revenge gets. Which is why it's much better, pragmatically and ethically, to conduct the war in as clean a way as possible: if it's just soldiers fighting and only military bases getting destroyed, many might feel it's 'merely politics' and stay out of it, feel more indifferent to the war. That means both Western support of Ukraine and self-organization of civilians to help the army. But when you see war crimes after war crimes, it gets very personal, people radicalize, and many countries that would have stayed neutral otherwise start feeling like this is something they must help to stop. The demarcation between the good and evil becomes very sharp, and most want to support the good.
Now, to the question of aviation: the rhetoric of Russia, its policies on national security presume that enemies are around them and that, if an opportunity arises, the enemies will invade and try to destroy Russia. This is why Russia demanded NATO to not only stop expanding, but even pull back to 30-year-old borders before the 2022 invasion. This assumption means they must reserve the majority of their air power for themselves, to be sure that if they are invaded by NATO, they can protect their own land.

[tardezyx]

Nor should it matter to Russia, because all of this happened not in Russian territory.

Which changed when Donetsk and Lugansk have declared themselves autonomous and asked Russia for assistance against Ukraine's attacks.

Under international law, Russia is not the aggressor as the "right of self-determination of peoples" is usually held in such high esteem. In my view, the attack came from Ukraine and the 2 republics have asked for "assistance" against a genocide that has been going on for 8 years and intensified in 2022. There is no right of a state to wage war on parts of the former state entity, to murder them and to raze their dwellings to the ground. I assume that exactly at this point the "international law" was massively broken on the part of Ukraine, only... only no one in the West was bothered by it. Pathetic.

[suchmoon]

Nor should it matter to Russia, because all of this happened not in Russian territory.

Which changed when Donetsk and Lugansk have declared themselves autonomous and asked Russia for assistance against Ukraine's attacks.

That's not how it works. I can't declare my house "autonomous" and ask Putin to liberate it. I mean I could, but that'd be idiotic.

Under international law, Russia is not the aggressor as the "right of self-determination of peoples" is usually held in such high esteem. In my view, the attack came from Ukraine and the 2 republics have asked for "assistance" against a genocide that has been going on for 8 years and intensified in 2022. There is no right of a state to wage war on parts of the former state entity, to murder them and to raze their dwellings to the ground. I assume that exactly at this point the "international law" was massively broken on the part of Ukraine, only... only no one in the West was bothered by it. Pathetic.

There was no genocide. Some thugs commanded by a KGB officer and helped by Russian military took over some cities. DNR/LNR is ruled by a ponzi-scammer Denis Pushilin and his gang of criminals since 2018; the previous wannabe dictators weren't any better either. Following the insurrection in 2014 they were stealing cars from civilians, looting homes, etc - all the usual stuff Russian "military" does. Ukrainians treated them as terrorists and rightfully so.

The conflict was at a stalemate in recent years. It "intensified" when Russia invaded, not before.

[tardezyx]

That's not how it works. I can't declare my house "autonomous" and ask Putin to liberate it. I mean I could, but that'd be idiotic.

If your house is a republic this is exactly how it works.

There was no genocide.

You should mention why the people of the southeast were upset with the regime change by the West in 2014 and why the regular people (and not the military) were regularly and systematically attacked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx2O4SZnNIU

Furthermore, you should answer the question why Zelenskyy proclaimed in 2020 or 2021 to attack the southeast/Crimea and why the attacks on the southeastern region intensified from the beginning to mid February before(!) Russia intervened.

Last but not least, there remains the question of what alternative options Putin has for action - after 8 years of fruitless agreements and non-compliance with the Minsk agreement by Ukraine and ultimately its escalation of military attacks. Wait and see and drink tea?

[suchmoon]

That's not how it works. I can't declare my house "autonomous" and ask Putin to liberate it. I mean I could, but that'd be idiotic.

If your house is a republic this is exactly how it works.

But it isn't. Neither is the DPR/LPR nonsense.

There was no genocide.

You should mention why the people of the southeast were upset with the regime change by the West in 2014 and why the regular people (and not the military) were regularly and systematically attacked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx2O4SZnNIU

Furthermore, you should answer the question why Zelenskyy proclaimed in 2020 or 2021 to attack the southeast/Crimea and why the attacks on the southeastern region intensified from the beginning to mid February before(!) Russia intervened.

Nice attempt with your straw people, better luck next time.

Last but not least, there remains the question of what alternative options Putin has for action - after 8 years of fruitless agreements and non-compliance with the Minsk agreement by Ukraine and ultimately its escalation of military attacks. Wait and see and drink tea?

Die or otherwise go away is also a good option.

[philipma1957]

Putin has done the entire world a great favor.

He has clearly shown us that $ 750,000 dollar tanks are no match for $50,000 remote launched missile setups.

So all countries know that tanks are a waste to build.

Next he has shown us that ships must stay much further from the shore to be safe. $50,000,000 ships can be sunk by $150,000 setups remotely operated.

Lastly he has really helped the gaming industry since the best gamers will be in demand to remotely operate the missles and drones to attack all those out of date techs.

What is also cool 😎 is Putins invasion has shown the entire world that jamming remote device control should be everyones top priority.

I never would have thought the all those tanks were basically a waste of men space and money.

Thanks to Putin we all have learned that tanks are next to worthless. Actually they are a liability to a country and their army .

Now do we want Putin to win do we want Putin to lose do we want Putin to die.

Obviously you can take your pick on that. Some will root for Russia 🇷🇺 some will root for Ukraine 🇺🇦 very few will point out that USA and nato along with Putin and Russia are simply using the Ukraine to jack up oil inflation basically running inflation up 🆙 up ⬆️ and away.

My prediction is this action goes on and on and on and on and on for all of May,June,July,August,Sept, even Oct by then gas will be nuts diesel will be over the moon and the oil barons of the world will be smiling bigly.

So my answer to the op question is Putin/Biden is doing exactly this and will do this for months to come while we all suffer the inflation it causes.

Putin also knows if he streches this out till the fall the USA 🇺🇸 will become more rightwing trumpish which he personally favors of leftwing bidenish.

To us all hope for the world maybe a Putin stroke followed by a Biden heart ♥️ attack.

[og kush420]

That's not how it works. I can't declare my house "autonomous" and ask Putin to liberate it. I mean I could, but that'd be idiotic.

If your house is a republic this is exactly how it works.

There was no genocide.

You should mention why the people of the southeast were upset with the regime change by the West in 2014 and why the regular people (and not the military) were regularly and systematically attacked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx2O4SZnNIU

Furthermore, you should answer the question why Zelenskyy proclaimed in 2020 or 2021 to attack the southeast/Crimea and why the attacks on the southeastern region intensified from the beginning to mid February before(!) Russia intervened.

Last but not least, there remains the question of what alternative options Putin has for action - after 8 years of fruitless agreements and non-compliance with the Minsk agreement by Ukraine and ultimately its escalation of military attacks. Wait and see and drink tea?

I believe Russia has done enough damage to the Ukraine - While Ukraine wanted to have ceasefire they were continuously killing and make people starve for food. They took away food and utensils of the survivors in Ukraine so that they die of hunger. Such a pity! War lord have no mercy!

[tardezyx]

Die or otherwise go away is also a good option.

A clear case of double standards.

[ropyu1978]

I'm sure when Russia's invasion of Ukraine took everything into account, and maybe this is as a test to Europe and the USA whether they will react, if the reaction is as normal as it is now then I'm sure Russia is considering its next target country.

In my opinion, the reason Russia is not using its full power against Russia is because Russia is aware that they are fighting against their brothers, so until now Russia has not used fighter jets to attack Ukraine, actually Russia only wants to fight America's allies who want to make Ukraine a scapegoat. If they really want to use their full power, it is certain that Ukraine is powerless.

[mm2543363580]

I'm sure when Russia's invasion of Ukraine took everything into account, and maybe this is as a test to Europe and the USA whether they will react, if the reaction is as normal as it is now then I'm sure Russia is considering its next target country.

In my opinion, the reason Russia is not using its full power against Russia is because Russia is aware that they are fighting against their brothers, so until now Russia has not used fighter jets to attack Ukraine, actually Russia only wants to fight America's allies who want to make Ukraine a scapegoat. If they really want to use their full power, it is certain that Ukraine is powerless.

Had they be so concerned about their brother - they should not have attacked their brother at the first place.
Russia should have not initiated this war. Pakistan too have paid a hefty for visiting Russia before war.

[DrBeer]

Putin has done the entire world a great favor.
He has clearly shown us that $ 750,000 dollar tanks are no match for $50,000 remote launched missile setups.
.....
To us all hope for the world maybe a Putin stroke followed by a Biden heart ♥️ attack.

I personally observed what remains of "a tank that has no analogues, and a tank that the West will not be able to create soon!" after hitting them Javelin/NLOW
I personally saw what a tank that came under fire from an RPG of the previous generation looks like. If there was no hit in critical areas, the tank lives long enough, and it will have marks from the hit, but it will be more or less intact. Yes, I saw how the process of tank death looks like, when the shaped charge burns through the armor, and the tank ammunition explodes. Pillars of fire, from all openings, primarily through the hatches and gun barrel. But to achieve this was quite difficult. And in the conditions of "battle in the field" it is extremely difficult.

But a tank that, after the first hit, turns into a mega firework, and launches its tower up to 20 meters - I have never seen this! Even if you weld a "unparalleled" lattice on the tower

Yes, and most importantly. The Russian army is a projection of the USSR army. At the same time, almost nothing has changed in it. The same stupid generals, the same orders "by this date, take this object at any cost" and ... YES, tank columns, as the main means of gaining superiority. It worked, in the days of primitive means of combating armored vehicles and tanks specifically. But after the advent of Javelins / NLOWs and the like, Russian tanks became mobile crematorium graves for their tankers.

[suchmoon]

Die or otherwise go away is also a good option.

A clear case of double standards.

No, it's not. The same "standard" is applicable to other murderous dictators as well.

[DrBeer]

I'm sure when Russia's invasion of Ukraine took everything into account, and maybe this is as a test to Europe and the USA whether they will react, if the reaction is as normal as it is now then I'm sure Russia is considering its next target country.

In my opinion, the reason Russia is not using its full power against Russia is because Russia is aware that they are fighting against their brothers, so until now Russia has not used fighter jets to attack Ukraine, actually Russia only wants to fight America's allies who want to make Ukraine a scapegoat. If they really want to use their full power, it is certain that Ukraine is powerless.

All the "power" of the Russian army turned out to be a fake and a total lie! The second most powerful army in the world has already strategically lost the war, an army that few even heard of "yesterday"! I will not list all their pathos statements about the capture of Ukraine as a cakewalk. I'll just say:
- 2-3 weeks to capture the whole of Ukraine has stretched for almost 90 days, and global losses have "the second most powerful army in the world." Losses of manpower and equipment already exceed the armies of many countries of the world!
- and most importantly - we are not "fraternal peoples" at all. We have nothing to do with them. And never will again!
Well, for visualization - below is a map of Ukraine, as of May 16, 2022.
Yellow and pink colors are the territories that were occupied in the first month. Yellow color is the territories that the Ukrainian army has liberated today, having defeated and driven away the Russian army. This actually happened in April. We must also understand - with a significant superiority (quantitative, but not qualitative) of the forces of the Russian terrorist troops.
Pink color is the temporarily occupied territories by Russian troops. As you noticed, more than half of the previously occupied areas have been freed from Russian terrorists. This is how "the second most powerful army in the world" looks like!

[philipma1957]

Die or otherwise go away is also a good option.

A clear case of double standards.

Most people think Russia bad USA good or USA bad Russia good.

Truth is they are both scumbag countries that conspire to hurt regular people in the World.

You can add a lot more countries to that list.

China
England and many more.

[bitgov]

Russia is strong. Russia is economically sound. Solid military. But yet Russia is the archetype of the nation state that's bound to disappear. I'm genuinely curious of how it will unfold.

Russian is a big state no doubt - But what is coming up after the sanctions and boycotts. I am too curious to know.
The bans and sanctions on Russia - and now the time when the EU has to get oil and gas from Russia - its really important how it will unfold.

[DrBeer]

....
Therefore, who is the aggressor here is an interesting question.
....

Be sure to add "real facts" about the crucified boy in panties, about the US chemical and bacteriological laboratories, about the grandmother raped with polyurethane foam (I apologize to the public - but this was also presented as a "fact"), and many other fairy tales so beloved by Russian listeners and bullshit

Yes, and add to your list, in chronological order, entries.
02/24/2014 - the entry of Russian troops into the territory of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, the seizure of administrative buildings, the ban on the work of legitimate power.
April 2014 - the entry of regular military units of Russia into the territory of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions of Ukraine, the seizure of administrative buildings, the cessation of the work of legitimate power. Formation of a puppet government. Expansion of the occupied territories.

Now the list will be correct, and a semantic load will appear in it

PS Well, and most importantly-there are no DNI and LC. These are the letters that indicate part of the Ukrainian lands occupied by Russia. Write right away that it was on the back of the moon, it will look more like the truth

[Mauser]

The Russia Ukraine war is very hard to analyse because we only get one sided information here. On TV we only see Russian losses, all Ukrainian casualties are being not disclosed. It makes it hard to get an objective picture from the war. What we do know is that Putin tried a blitzkrieg and overthrow the government in Kiev quickly. That didn't work because of some wrong Intel or it was just a high risk, high reward strategy. The Ukrainian army is bigger than the number of Russian troops in Ukraine, but Putin can use his forces much more concentrated than the Ukrainian. He is choosing which area to attack, while Ukraine needs to defend the whole country. The big issue for how many troops to be used in Ukraine is the logistic. Already with the current amount of troops Russia is having problems supplying all the front line battalions. It must be very frustrating to leave behind armor because of the lack of fuel. Now it's a war of attrition and Russia will need to access its vast supply of old weapons, while Ukraine is being supplied by Western countries.

[Ultegra134]

Nor should it matter to Russia, because all of this happened not in Russian territory.

Which changed when Donetsk and Lugansk have declared themselves autonomous and asked Russia for assistance against Ukraine's attacks.

Under international law, Russia is not the aggressor as the "right of self-determination of peoples" is usually held in such high esteem. In my view, the attack came from Ukraine and the 2 republics have asked for "assistance" against a genocide that has been going on for 8 years and intensified in 2022. There is no right of a state to wage war on parts of the former state entity, to murder them and to raze their dwellings to the ground. I assume that exactly at this point the "international law" was massively broken on the part of Ukraine, only... only no one in the West was bothered by it. Pathetic.

Has it? The autonomous Donetsk and Luhansk have declared themselves and are only recognized by Russia as autonomous states. In reality, they're simply two Ukrainian occupied territories. How is Russia not the aggressor, under "international law"?

My prediction is this action goes on and on and on and on and on for all of May,June,July,August,Sept, even Oct by then gas will be nuts diesel will be over the moon and the oil barons of the world will be smiling bigly.

So my answer to the op question is Putin/Biden is doing exactly this and will do this for months to come while we all suffer the inflation it causes.

That's my main concern, no one believed that the war would last that long, but it looks that it's not bound to end anytime soon. As you've already mentioned, the war is likely to last till the end of the year, causing excessive oil prices and severely increased inflation rates.