Is there a solution to alts leeching off bitcoin's strong valuation?

[diffract]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

[jackg]

They're probably doing that because they're not a good project and need something to actually back them and make them seem more worthwhile.

Using luna as an example, it might make some sense to back it with crypto independent of it, using bitcoin and eth for that never really made any sense though to me - either they had no trust in their protocol or were greedy (and it looks like it turned out to be both).

In the end they'll all just die out if they're not useful or helpful.

[LoyceMobile]

All we can do is educate people, but they were convinced money grabbing Defi and NFT was different than money grabbing ICO and Forks. In the coming years, I'm sure we'll see different money grabbing schemes again, and people will fall for it again.
In the end, all they want is more money, but they don't realize the ones who created it are the ones who run off with theirs.

Think of it this way: Bitcoin doesn't care. It just keeps working, whether or not people lose anything they "invested" in altcoins or not.

[Upgrade00]

Anyone can buy Bitcoin and use it as a collateral or how ever way they choose to. They have the freedom to do so, and Bitcoin is decentralized, so no one can limit anyone else from opening it. If anyone chooses to buy their contraption instead of an actual Bitcoin that's on them.

Alts are not screwing bitcoiners; Market changes following cycles of bullish and bearish periods; this drop in value is not exclusively a result of any certain factor, so you can't say alts are dragging Bitcoin along with it.

[amishmanish]

I believe there need proper mechanism to evaluate new projects before they go public. Some kind of audit mechanism because a lot of  these projects are nothing but Ponzi schemes. Bit coiners community can create a guild or certification body, which sets some rigorous mechanism to review and rate the new projects, and public can see their ratings before investing. this will greatly help in preventing scams

[348Judah]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

They understand as well that they have no good standings as bitcoin has and needed it support to have a strong backbone for their existence, if truly those alts coins were really of a standard worth Valued to that of bitcoin then they wouldn't have been seeking for supportive backup from bitcoin, imagine if where you are running to for help is still soliciting help elsewhere too, same is what's going onbwith altscoin vs bitcoin.

[OgNasty]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

I don't think wrapped Bitcoin or that locked away is the problem.  The massive influx of coins is definitely a form of inflation though.  I talked about this a little bit about 8 years ago I think.  I was strongly against altcoins at that time due to their shadow inflation of Bitcoin.  That was up until the block wars made it clear that Bitcoin wasn't going to be able to handle all the necessary use cases for crypto.  So I'm not against altcoins anymore.  I understand they are a necessity as a result of Bitcoin's blocks being limited into the future.  It is a shame that it played out this way, but it is what it is.  

Bitcoin being pushed as a store of value makes it really difficult to use for most use cases.  So altcoins, or ETFs, or whatever other nonsense you want to add in are going to have to use Bitcoin in their shenanigans, otherwise Bitcoin would be of 0 value in the future.

[Slow death]

we are seeing a very irritating scenario, some altcoins have screwed up and are pulling bitcoin into the hole, the problem of people being wrong with any project that appears is taking us to the hole, we had ICO in the past, and we fell into the hole. We had DEFI, then we had the Crypto staking and lending projects which are also proving to be another cancer that is driving bitcoin into the hole. At this rate we are heading back to 2018 and who knows, we may see the price reach 3100$ again (man on that day I could sell my goods and rush to buy bitcoin)

[wxa7115]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

There is not much to do, with the exception of trying to warn newbies and other users about the dangers  of those coins there is not much else we can do.

After all this is not really a new process as well, for thousands of years people used gold and silver directly to buy products or settle debts, however in a process which took a long time governments convinced people to eventually accept pieces of paper which had gold baking them up, and what happened? Governments eventually stopped that backing and effectively stole all that gold from the people, so it is not surprising a similar process has began against bitcoin already.

[taufik123]

-snip- At this rate we are heading back to 2018 and who knows, we may see the price reach 3100$ again (man on that day I could sell my goods and rush to buy bitcoin)

If the bitcoin price really hits $3100, the world will be hell, all the big companies will go bankrupt. It seems that is still impossible for now.
Microstrategi just reported that its current leveraged position in bitcoin would be liquidated if bitcoin fell to a price of $21,000 and its current low of $22,812, which is a figure very close to Microstrategi's bankruptcy. and now the loss position of microstrategy is around $800 million.

Not only Microstrategy, big companies like TESLA and the country that adopted Bitcoin for the first time, namely EL Salvador, also suffered a lot of losses. Of course they will not remain silent. We are just waiting to see what will happen next.

[LoyceMobile]

Bit coiners community can create a guild or certification body, which sets some rigorous mechanism to review and rate the new projects

Theymos suggested something similar a while ago, when talking about advertising on the forum. Currently, those projects are all rejected because it's impossible to distinguish between likely scams and better projects.

[hatshepsut93]

You can't stop anyone from buying and selling Bitcoin. This problem will eventually solve itself when Bitcoin market will be large enough to not crash because one project sold thousands of coins and also when altcoins will stop doing their wrapping, because people will realize that it's pointless and doesn't improve anything, only makes things worse - introduces trust and more points of failure.

[GreatArkansas]

This is one of the many reasons why Bitcoin will stay. Those altcoins know how Bitcoin is valuable and will stay. For sure some also selling their altcoins or funds just to buy Bitcoin as their reserve funds.
Now that market is bleeding, I believe that there will be a lot of altcoins that will get hammered, and most people starting to convert their altcoins to Bitcoin which for me is also a good idea, especially during bear season.

[nullama]

The solution is for people to understand Bitcoin.

Most people that buy altcoins just want a quick buck. They see the price of some altcoin that was just created, buy some, and hope that it will go up and sell it for profit.

When people understand how Bitcoin works, and why it was created, then they'll stop wasting their money into altcoins and invest their money in Bitcoin instead.

There's no stopping altcoins though, because there's a lot of greedy people that want to take the money from other greedy people.

[bitzizzix]

Technology and innovation are constantly evolving which will be a competition that we will not know about in the future, everyone has the right to do so as long as they believe it is good or profitable and vice versa because there are no rules that apply.
and we as true bitcoin users should stay loyal and try to at least give a good understanding of bitcoin to those who are new to the crypto world, and there is no denying that we are also doing the same because we just want to make a profit.
let everything flow in its own way because in the end only bitcoin survives and becomes the best among other coins.

[avikz]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

I would say otherwise. When big alts are buying bitcoin and using as collateral, it shows the power of bitcoin to become the reserve store of value within the crypto ecosystem. That's good for bitcoin because the demand stays strong. They could have purchased any xyz cryptocurrencies but instead they are buying bitcoins to back themselves. It's a positive! How it can be considered as a screwup anyway?

[yazher]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

Real altcoins can stand on their own with the help of the team behind them because they are motivated to do so and most importantly they are legit projects who really wanted to make some new kind of service in the crypto industry. as we know, we already witnessed huge numbers of projects who are like that and so far, they are successful and still ongoing today. Unless those projects are good only in the start but in reality, they have hidden agenda to scam people and we know when greed takes over the team, the project will fail and we know it already happened to some projects that we thought were legit.

[LegendaryK]

Big alts are buying bitcoin and using it as collateral, or wrapping it, or using it as part of their defi shenanigans.
Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin, now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

Alts are the least of your problem, at least they buy some btc.

Your problems are :

1. Government warnings about excessive energy usage.
2. Lack of onchain transaction capacity.
3. Miners are all now ~$12K below the breakeven price of btc.
4. Every altcoin has higher transaction capacity.
5. Microstrategy Margin Call , which could cause an even worse selloff than what is currently happening.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/microstrategy-stock-falls-23-on-bitcoin-plunge-11655150167

The company had said it would face a margin call if the price of bitcoin drops to about $21,000

[pooya87]

Alts used to exist independently to compete with bitcoin,

This is an understatement. Basically apart from early days back in maybe 2010 there hasn't been any altcoin that aimed to exist independently. They all exist because bitcoin exists and dump whenever bitcoin goes up or down. In other words innovation started and ended with bitcoin.

now they're drag it along with them and screwing bitcoiners.

I disagree. Historically altcoins have caused small drops in bitcoin but only small ones, they have never been able to "drag it down" significantly. The drops you see these days have nothing to do with altcoins either.

[tadamichi]

Real altcoins can stand on their own with the help of the team behind them because they are motivated to do so and most importantly they are legit projects who really wanted to make some new kind of service in the crypto industry. as we know, we already witnessed huge numbers of projects who are like that and so far, they are successful and still ongoing today. Unless those projects are good only in the start but in reality, they have hidden agenda to scam people and we know when greed takes over the team, the project will fail and we know it already happened to some projects that we thought were legit.

I disagree, all they’re doing is basically:

...it would have to be better in some way other than just "I started the new chain, so I've got a lot of the easy-to-generate-at-the-beginning-coins."

You say that now, but if bitcoin really takes off I can see lots of get-rich-quick imitators coming on the scene: gitcoin, nitcoin, witcoin, titcoin, shitcoin... Some of them are sure to attract users with promises like "Why use bitcoin, where you can only generate 50 bitcoins every few months? Use shitcoin instead, and you'll get 51 shitcoins every 2 minutes".

Of course the cheap imitators will disappear as quickly as those 1990s "internet currencies" like flooz and beenz, but lots of people will get burned along the way.

It’s funny that it was foreseen in 2010 already.

Blend out the promises they make first, and then just look at the monetary properties they offer, and it becomes clear they’re way inferior to Bitcoin. An altcoin can start out good and with well intentions, but if immutability isn’t there you can’t guarantee how long this is the case. It’s like taking a gamble that you can’t influence.

And that’s what separates Bitcoin from all of them. If they don’t even make sense from an economic point of view, then what makes you think they have global adoption potential? Beware of empty hype.