What's up with Covid and Bitcoiners?

[BlackHatCoiner]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general. I follow some people here and there, for bitcoin related stuff, and dergigi is one whom I enjoy reading. Even he has written an article regarding what we're all going through these years, referring to it as "Tyranny".

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

Not self-moderated; I suppose we keep things civil.

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[Gyfts]

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny?

Tyranny is what China does in the name of "COVID safety," ie taking Shanghai residents and forcibly confining residents to their apartment buildings and even in some cases, euthanizing their pets.

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-langfang-district-says-kill-covid-patients-pets-2022-3

I believe they canceled the kill order, but nonetheless not before some pets were murdered.

China is the outlier, we already know the CCP was horribly tyrannical.

Perhaps developed countries would fare a bit better: Forced vaccinations, vaccine passports, and removal of private enterprise under the guise of "lockdown regulations," driven by unscientific and unsubstantiated claims about COVID spread.

Read here, a literature review and metanalysis of COVID-19 lockdown strategy: https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

There were no statistically significant differences between free populations and populations under lockdown measures. The politicians knew this from the start, but they let their own personal fears and emotions dictate COVID policy.

And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus?

Protect those who are vulnerable. The virus does not affect a geriatric the same way it would effect the young.

[1miau]

Even he has written an article regarding what we're all going through these years, referring to it as "Tyranny".

Yeah, DerGigi is from Germany and his hot takes are extremely embarassing for the German Bitcoin community in my opinion. 
He's talking like he's knowing everything about virology, medical research and so on but what's his profession exactly, virologist? 
Of course he's not a virologist but he's acting like he's one and that's the problem in my opinion.
There are so many pseudo experts making a fortune by spreading their unfounded Corona sceptical analysis, it's quite strange.

In Germany, we have a whole bunch of them, squeezing shitloads of money out of their braindead followers.
Bhakdi, a German Corona sceptic, recently launched a book and is advertising it everywhere.
Schiffmann, another German Corona sceptic, collected tons of money from his Corona sceptic fans and now, he's travelling around Africa from his money.
Another one, Ballweg, collected "donations" for his "Anti Corona-Dictatorship Movement" but he was caught using these funds to enrich himself and his friends. 

As a Bitcoiner I'm sceptical, I'm doing my own research but of course, I'm not anti science and I'm not thinking that I'm more knowledgeable about the state of intensive care units than the chief of medicine staff there. 
Being a Corona conspiracy theorist reminds me a little bit of Craig Wright (Faketoshi) or some Shitcoin scammers: they have no clue, unproven theories, the experts are against them but the Shitcoin scammers are making a fortune by scamming their bagholders with lies. 
Corona sceptics are such a joke. I'm not saying, that everything went well because in Germany, the government party also made some shady mask deals, where some local politicians were involved, but I'm glad, that I'm vaccinated because I don't want to gamble with a Covid infection and I'm glad, that some common sense politicians and experts are in the government currently instead of these Corona sceptic maniacs which have no clue at all. 
There's even a German vegan cook now doing virology analysis and calling for a coup against the government but he was busted by AnonLeaks Germany several times. 

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

I agree to what Gyfts already said here. What's happening in China currently is not reasonable at all. When there's a small number of infections, the whole city is locked down in China. 
That's not helpful at all. But it's also looking like their vaccine (SinoVac) is not as good as our western vaccine.

Right now, almost all Covid preventions are gone in Germany, still some people claim that there's a "Corona-Dictatorship / Tyranny". I don't know how they are getting to that conclusion. There was even a vaccine mandate discussed in our parliament but the parliament rejected that idea.

Honestly, I'm a bit tired of talking to such people claiming that there's some sort of "Corona Tyranny" ongoing. It's like there would be people claiming there's a "Seatbelt-Tyranny" ongoing, a "Traffic light-Tyranny" or something similar. Covid19 is much more dangerous than a flu, that's what all the medical staff in every local hospital has confirmed here in Germany and why should these tens of thousands medical staff people lying about that? 
Makes no sense to me at all. 

[montaga]

German parliamentarian talks about the tyranny
https://odysee.com/@SolacoMan:c/The-Biggest-Crime-Ever-Committed-on-Humanity-(Covid-Vaccines)-Christine-Anderson-(German-MP)-EU-Parliament-05-July-2022-(3-min-video):0



China successfully invated Taiwan

[Hetadrop]

Covid-19 has caused many million people die from it, similar to what happened 1914, when in Spain the spanish flu caused many people to die from it. Covid-19 is globally and it’s highly contagious.
Still, some people say about Covid-19, it doesn’t exist or isn’t dangerous. Such people are ignoring a million people died from Covid-19 infections already.

For people say about Covid-19, it doesn’t exist or isn’t deadly, an 'Award' was given out, Herman Cain Award. It’s given out posthumously, when people downplayed Covid-19 but later died from it.
It’s a very unfortunate award but downplaying a dangerous disease and later dying from it is just priceless.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

Some awards:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rygmi7/qanon_star_who_said_only_idiots_get_vax_dies_of/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rjk0qi/conservative_washington_state_senator_doug/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/qwaosw/marcus_lamb_is_an_evangelical_preacher_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/r4af3x/antivaxxer_vegan_died_from_covid_in_hospital/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pqqjj1/denver_pastor_loren_fafo/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/qefhsv/public_figure_amy_didnt_give_a_fuckyes_she_is_a/

All awards:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/wiki/hall-of-cain

[franky1]

alot of the tin foil hat idiots shouting tyranny have never personally experienced war, nor seen death up close or personally seen real slavery.
they have NO CLUE what real tyranny is.

its not about a government "asking people". its about a CRUEL and harmful government

wearing a mask is not tyranny. much like societies request to wear underwear. its just a social respect for others that dont want to be impacted by idiots. perves and sickos

idiots dont learn what tyranny really is because they only experience the sanitised version. the cleaned up version. where its swayed by racial bias and then promoted on things like Fox news, with a smile.
"america great.. other country bad"

take the whole concept of thinking china are tyrants.
they have a 1.4bill population and a 1m 'detainee' camp..(0.07% per populus)
yet ratio/percentage.. america has more detainee's vs its population.
yet you dont hear about the numbers of american detainee's or the conditions they are put in.
funnily enough america think locking up a mexican is ok,splitting up meican familes is good. .. but locking up anyone fox news doesnt want locked up is bad. (if it suits the headline clickbait they want to bait people into)

idiots need to put things into prospective and truly look behind the headlines.

fox news presents china as tyrants by pretending the only currency in china is locked to a government surveillance system. yet it only takes going to a travel agent and asking to swap dollar for chinese currency and get handed paper bank notes. you soon realise no one is demanding birth certificates and a photo just to use chinese currency

real tyranny is not being asked to wear face masks. real tyranny is being a actual slave being actually beaten and whipped physically with blood and scars. beaten into submission. or killed (or at minimum threatened with it) if you dont obey.. where by you cannot change your slave master. there is no escape from their land.
(at a local scale or a national scale (slave master or countries leader))

people can leave china. they have planes.. they can apply for citizenship elsewhere. no one is threatening them with death.
...
saying that masks are a tyrannical act is ignoring the actual things that threaten life, cause actual injury and death and restrict peoples lives completely for no reason but greed and power.

the masks and respect of personal space, is to reduce a virus that does kill from harming others that dont want to die due to disrespectful people that dont care about the other peoples health

america is just about as much a prison as china.
the funny part is america doesnt want people leaving america or coming into america. their "patriotic" mantra is their prison. yes america have planes too. but thats why if you take away the fox new racism of hating asia/middle east. you start to see the similarities of nations. media want to make americans scared of leaving america.
(unless its to a vacation resort owned by capitalist americans)

its things like making free healthcare sound like a negative.. because the prison wardens(capitalist politicians) dont want americans to want the same free choices and things as other countries.
here in the UK. we can change our GP(family doctor) we can go to any hospital. we do not need to check if certain hospital or doctor is on a certain health plan. we dont have to worry if certain procedures are covered by certain plans. we dont even have to worry about if an ambulance is going to charge us.

there are silly things americans are ignorant of. like wanting citizens to be able to wave a gun, but also wanting an american police officer to kill anyone waving a gun.

i do laugh when there are articles headline said china killed pets.. but the article then below the clickbait topic. then announces the state didnt implement the supposed rule and admitted they have no evidence of pets being killed.
if there was a true mandate. it takes days/weeks to then employ people and supply tranquilzers and to organise actual raids on pets. thus it was a non event because a news story is not the same as the 'boots on the ground' requirements of fulfilling anything.

idiots just dont think beyond the clickbait topic title. they just get emotional and believe the topic title of some random article, and then try to tag it as tyranny, even when nothing actually happened

as for the fools that want their freedom to catch the virus if they chose or want to lick anyones face without permission.. well they need to learn respect for others and personal space.
do whatever you want in your own private life just dont go impacting others with your stupidity.

[Out of PATIENCE]

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

I think Bitcoiners tend to have trust issues. As they should. Hard to trust the people in control of us because they've violated the trust so many times.

The correct approach would have been a consistent uniform message from leaders about sanitary procedures, washing hands, masks, etc. to contain the spread and not let it pass around our societies and mutate. I didn't see that. I saw a bunch of political games, half truths, crappy journalism, crappy data collection, and inconsistent messages from leaders and scientists around the world. This is not new stuff.

Forcing a vaccine and putting restrictions on events, work, etc. without your card is tyrannical bullshit, especially when it is driven by the aforementioned crap.

Anytime you get into forcing something on large populations, you're going down the tyranny slope. Especially with a new, not long term tested, vaccine technology.. a technology primarily supported by a dude and group involved in Gain of Function research. Ya, OK, go fuck yourself with your new vaccine.

Traffic lights and seatbelts don't require an injection.

People can handle some restrictions, even lockdowns, but they went way too far with COVID and continue to push. Be wary.

[tvbcof]

Covid-19 has caused many million people die from it, similar to what happened 1914, when in Spain the spanish flu caused many people to die from it. Covid-19 is globally and it’s highly contagious.
Still, some people say about Covid-19, it doesn’t exist or isn’t dangerous. Such people are ignoring a million people died from Covid-19 infections already.
...

I'm guessing you mean 'SARS-cov-2 viral infection' because there is no such thing as a 'covid infection'.  Anyway, the various people I know personally who are labeled as having died of 'covid-19' died of no such thing.  Mostly they died of old-age like my mother-in-law who had called her family in to say her goodbyes months before going to the hospital.  Of course she was 'tested' when she got there and of course was 'positive' because the hospital gets a lot more money that way.

I know from second order relationships (family of my wife's friends and people from her home area) of about 15 people who died within days or weeks of getting the gene therapy injection (or in a few cases Sinovac which is advertised as using traditional technology.)  I'm estimating that most of these fatalities would have been labeled 'covid'.

I also know that the people I employ who were goaded into getting the jab in order to travel, get benefits, etc are working at no more than half-speed compared to when I first hired them, though it's not a for-sure thing that it's related to the depop shot and they do still recover from infections so their immune systems are not totally shot.  Yet.

[Lucius]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general.

If someone is pro-Bitcoin, I don't see any particular reason why he/she should automatically be a supporter of vaccinations and all other measures that limit human rights and freedoms. I personally did not get vaccinated and got over the virus without any consequences, but I was never against people getting vaccinated if they wanted to - but I am absolutely against forcing people to get vaccinated so that they can enter a public institution or come to their working place.

People have different theories about the vaccine, but the fact is that it is still experimental and its long-term consequences are unknown, and that Covid-19 is a disease with a very low mortality rate compared to other diseases that take tens of millions of lives every year.

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

The measures that were implemented turned out to be completely unjustified, such as covid passports for those vaccinated and those who have recovered from the virus, because they could go anywhere and do anything based on a piece of paper that could not possibly be a guarantee that someone was healthy - and such people contributed the most to the spread of the virus. In addition, now that it's summer, there are no measures, as the virus continues to spread and mutate, and at the end of the summer, new measures and restrictions will begin. It is completely wrong to fight the virus only during autumn and winter, because the virus is there all the time.

What I want to say is that moderate measures should be in force all year round, instead of having lockdowns, forced vaccinations and dividing people into those who can live normally and those who become enemies of society during autumn and winter.

[franky1]

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

I think Bitcoiners tend to have trust issues. As they should. Hard to trust the people in control of us because they've violated the trust so many times.

The correct approach would have been a consistent uniform message from leaders about sanitary procedures, washing hands, masks, etc. to contain the spread and not let it pass around our societies and mutate. I didn't see that. I saw a bunch of political games, half truths, crappy journalism, crappy data collection, and inconsistent messages from leaders and scientists around the world. This is not new stuff.

i was going to award you merit.. but then i read your next bits below

Forcing a vaccine and putting restrictions on events, work, etc. without your card is tyrannical bullshit, especially when it is driven by the aforementioned crap.

'force', 'tyrannical'? no one is forced. there was no swat team going door to door. there was no threat to life for not complying.
just the message about personal respect and space awareness of distancing from others to respect others got filtered out in media and twisted into cries of tyranny

and the below stuff just sounds like the tin foil script conspiracy stuff you normally see..

Anytime you get into forcing something on large populations, you're going down the tyranny slope. Especially with a new, not long term tested, vaccine technology.. a technology primarily supported by a dude and group involved in Gain of Function research. Ya, OK, go fuck yourself with your new vaccine.

your first paragraph i thought you were aware of the media games, or selective editing and interviewing to cause confusion.. but then your next bits i quoted show you fell for their game by sounding exactly like the tin foil's they way to create.
..
anyway addressing the main topic question
as for the connection to some bitcoiners.
well thats just the social structure of the anti-capitalist/liberal views people have of wanting to escape fiat. align with the tin foil hat paranoid idiots want to escape politicians

[TheNineClub]

It's understandable that those types of people would spill over into the crypto space because, well, the space has grown and with that deversified (unlike my portfolio). The beef someone has with how covid handled is moslty nit waranted and is really a person to person account of the situation and not a unified sentiment. So it's definatelly not across the board in crypto and it's definatelly not the norm.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general.

You've answered your own question here. There are plenty of anti-vax morons and conspiracy quacks around. The cryptocurrency community is large enough that it will have roughly the same proportion of morons and quacks as the general population.

Being technically competent in one field does not preclude you from being a moron in another field. Being technically knowledgeable on bitcoin or cryptography does not make you a virologist or epidemiologist.

[Lucius]

There are plenty of anti-vax morons and conspiracy quacks around. The cryptocurrency community is large enough that it will have roughly the same proportion of morons and quacks as the general population.

Calling people who are against mandatory vaccination with experimental vaccine morons is just proof that people like you don't think for themselves and let others think for them. If I'm not mistaken, you are a doctor or you work in the medical profession, so you can better understand the research conducted on vaccines by independent experts who constantly warn about the possible harmful consequences of vaccination in the long term.

Covid 19 is a disease that has critical (fatal consequences) in less than 2% of cases, and mostly people over 65 who already have a chronic disease die. No one disputes that the disease exists, but compared to cancer, heart attack and stroke, it has an almost harmless mortality rate, especially for the younger population.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

[o_e_l_e_o]

Calling people who are against mandatory vaccination with experimental vaccine morons is just proof that people like you don't think for themselves and let others think for them.

I have never once supported mandatory vaccinations.

Anti-vaxxers are still morons.

[Lucius]

Anti-vaxxers are still morons.

I would call people who have such an opinion a name that I don't even want to write, because if you think that someone is a moron because he doesn't want to introduce something potentially dangerous into his body to protect himself from a disease that for the younger population (up to 50 years old) has a rate of mortality rate less than 1%, then that says enough about you. Critical thinking is what makes science relevant, not blind acceptance of what companies like Pfizer or Moderna claim.

Given that you are an American and that it is US companies that have amassed a fortune on vaccines, I am even less surprised by your attitude. If in 4-5 years those who have been vaccinated start to get sick from some other diseases, it will be a much worse pandemic than the one we have now.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Critical thinking is what makes science relevant, not blind acceptance of what companies like Pfizer or Moderna claim.

Stop with the strawmen, please. I've never once blindly accepted anything that pharmaceutical companies claim. I'm evaluating the insurmountable mountain of evidence which shows that vaccines are one of the safest and most effective therapies in healthcare.

Anyone who believes some barely literate anti-vax conspiracy nut with absolutely no supporting evidence, data, studies, trials, meta-analyses, over the mountain of scientific evidence, hundreds of thousands of trials, and billions of data points, proving vaccines are safe and effective, is a moron. This applies equally to all walks of life. For example, anyone who believes that the Earth is flat in the face of the unequivocal evidence to the contrary is a moron. Anyone who rejects hard evidence without anything to support their opinion other than "This is what I think" is a moron.

Which brings us back to the original point of this thread. There are morons everywhere. The crypto world is no different.

[Out of PATIENCE]

i was going to award you merit.. but then i read your next bits below

Stop trying to get me to post the way you want me to, franky, I don't need your biased smerit!

You use merit as a way to guide the conversation how you want it?  My god, the bounty hunters are all going to be trained to posting a certain way that merit sources deem fit.

Incentivized group think, great. /s

'force', 'tyrannical'? no one is forced. there was no swat team going door to door. there was no threat to life for not complying.
just the message about personal respect and space awareness of distancing from others to respect others got filtered out in media and twisted into cries of tyranny

Strange you say no threat to life, when most people I know took the vaccine specifically out of fear of death, because of all the media BS stating you would die or would kill others. They scare people to fear for their lives, then provide them a [bad] solution. A whack untested vaccine.

Maybe just listen to what Dr. Yamamoto has to say. We can at least verify his credentials.
oooleeeoeleo has the arrogance of a doctor, but strangely needs to spew posts on a forum to get paid from sig. campaign. Wutevs.

The media have so far concealed the adverse events of vaccine administration, such as vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT), owing to biased propaganda. The institute encounters many cases in which this cause is recognized. These situations have occurred in waves; however, they are yet to be resolved despite the measures implemented to routinely screen patients admitted for surgery for heparin-induced thrombocytopenia (HIT) antibodies.

COVID-19 vaccination is a major risk factor for infections in critically ill patients.

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-022-01831-0
https://notaakhirzaman.com/10607/

I thought the critically ill patients were the ones supposed to be getting it?

and the below stuff just sounds like the tin foil script conspiracy stuff you normally see..

Wutevs.

[tvbcof]

...
Covid 19 is a disease that has critical (fatal consequences) in less than 2% of cases, and mostly people over 65 who already have a chronic disease die. No one disputes that the disease exists, but compared to cancer, heart attack and stroke, it has an almost harmless mortality rate, especially for the younger population.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-rate/

As I see it, there is more than enough demonstrable and documented fraud to account for ALL of the (pre-injection) effects blamed on 'SARS-cov-2' and then some.

After the de-pop shot went into the arms the 'side' effects are just called 'covid' or 'long covid'.  Exactly as I predicted.  Now they are calling it 'SADS' and blaming 'climate change' and such because the peeps are simple enough to believe it.

That said, I believe it most likely that there is a coronavirus which expresses a somewhat carefully engineered so-called 'spike protein'.  Most likely the spike protein has been under development for quite a while.  Gluing it on to a coronavirus was mostly just a means of circulating it around to give some excuse for the genetic modifications to humans which cause their cells to produce said spike protein.  The so-called 'covid-19' that it probably did/does cause what was/is in some people a mild ailment that was not a threat to almost anyone, and especially those with a little bit of insider info...a somewhat connected friend of mine mentioned hydroxychloroquine (and a few other drugs) well before the '2-weeks to flatten the curve' when it was still available over-the-counter for malaria where I live, but I didn't get around to getting any at that time.  No mention of Ivermectin, and I wonder if that substance actually managed to catch the designers of the operation by surprise.

The ACE-2 receptor has been of interest to biological agents developers for some time because there is a wide variance in the prevalence of the receptor between races and ethnic groups.  Some nations have had a particular interest due to the presence of undesirable individuals on 'their' lands of interest.  Apartheid South Africa and Israel in particular, and the latter is not a signatory to the biological weapons convention treaty.  One of a tiny handful of states who are not in fact.  Anyway, the features engineered into the spike protein interact with ACE-2 receptors lending even more support to the supposition that it originated from biological weapons research.

The act of injecting people with the 'hurried new technology' which ends up making it impossible for the injected to develop immunity means that herd immunity will never be reached and the 'waves' will go on indefinitely.  The 'vaxxed' will be chronically re-infected with 'SARS-cov-2', and with a lot of other stuff which a properly functioning immune system would handle rather easily.  Herd immunity can only return when these damaged people die off.  The 'boosters' will help that process along.

[BlackHatCoiner]

dividing people into those who can live normally and those who become enemies of society during autumn and winter.

That's very crucial, I ought to say. To clarify, I'm not against vaccinations. I'm against mandatory vaccinations. I've taken 2 doses and had no problem. During the second quarantine (mid-2021), I observed some unconstitutional attitude from the government; the elders were forced to do the vaccine, otherwise they had to pay some hundreds of euros every month, which is when I started getting concerned.

Which brings me to this:

Anyone who believes some barely literate anti-vax conspiracy nut with absolutely no supporting evidence, data, studies, trials, meta-analyses, over the mountain of scientific evidence, hundreds of thousands of trials, and billions of data points, proving vaccines are safe and effective, is a moron.

I don't care if some people believe masks/vaccines don't do good, blaming Bill Gates, 5G companies etc., but I can't ignore the fact that governments do have found their way to impose themselves with divide and conquer. In my country, there are now more those who've "given up" with this, and those who take the vaccine, wear a mask everywhere (inside & outside) and, more importantly, ignore any person who might question their actions. Before the Ukrainian war, TV news, internet articles, radio, newspapers etc., had scared the shit out of all citizens.

Don't you believe there was fearmongering? And how can a person who isn't a doctor verify all this scientific evidence?

[o_e_l_e_o]

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-022-01831-0

Now who is blindly accepting anything that fits their narrative without any critical thought?

The first line of his musings (this is not a study, just an unreviewed letter) is this:

Recently, The Lancet published a study on the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines and the waning of immunity with time. The study showed that immune function among vaccinated individuals 8 months after the administration of two doses of COVID-19 vaccine was lower than that among the unvaccinated individuals.

Here is the study he is referring to:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67362200089-7/fulltext

It also says no such thing. If you look at Table 2, you will see a lower incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection across all vaccines and across all time periods when compared to unvaccinated individuals in a statistically significant manner.

-snip-

This post reads like a bingo card of all the stupidest things anti-vaxxers believe. The only thing you missed out is that the vaccines are actually 5G nanochips.

[Lucius]

Stop with the strawmen, please. I've never once blindly accepted anything that pharmaceutical companies claim. I'm evaluating the insurmountable mountain of evidence which shows that vaccines are one of the safest and most effective therapies in healthcare.

A man who works in the medical profession defends the indefensible, so how is it possible that in less than 1 year a vaccine can be invented, tested, produced and declared safe if any other drug requires at least 5 years of clinical research? I'm not talking about vaccines in general, but about specific vaccines that are released to the general population without serious clinical research being conducted on them.

Anyone who believes some barely literate anti-vax conspiracy nut with absolutely no supporting evidence, data, studies, trials, meta-analyses, over the mountain of scientific evidence, hundreds of thousands of trials, and billions of data points, proving vaccines are safe and effective, is a moron. This applies equally to all walks of life. For example, anyone who believes that the Earth is flat in the face of the unequivocal evidence to the contrary is a moron. Anyone who rejects hard evidence without anything to support their opinion other than "This is what I think" is a moron.

That's the problem of you and others like you, you don't accept anything that doesn't work in your favor, regardless of who it is and how good the research is. Never in history has there been so much ignoring of any criticism and questioning that comes from the other side - I'm not surprised that you use the term "morons", because more or less all governments and influential individuals use it to shame those who oppose their treatment as experimental rats.

That's very crucial, I ought to say. To clarify, I'm not against vaccinations. I'm against mandatory vaccinations. I've taken 2 doses and had no problem. During the second quarantine (mid-2021), I observed some unconstitutional attitude from the government; the elders were forced to do the vaccine, otherwise they had to pay some hundreds of euros every month, which is when I started getting concerned.

I'm also not against vaccinations, but only with vaccines that have been tested according to medical standards and can be considered safe. When you see how far they were ready to go in restricting human freedoms, up to physical violence in certain parts of the world (especially Australia), then it is clear to you that illness alone cannot be the reason given the very low mortality rate. I didn't have to pay the state because I wasn't vaccinated, but they forbade me to enter all public institutions, and like our colleagues, they called me a moron at every possible opportunity, whether it was politicians, doctors or officials working in state/public institutions.

At the same time, sick people with covid passports are walking around and spreading the virus, which turned out to be a completely failed measure - but if you have a piece of paper on which it says that you received the vaccine, you are considered desirable in society, regardless of the fact that the vaccinated also transmit the virus to the same extent as unvaccinated.

[tvbcof]

-snip-

This post reads like a bingo card of all the stupidest things anti-vaxxers believe. The only thing you missed out is that the vaccines are actually 5G nanochips.

Predictably you didn't object to any specific thing I said.  Just snipped it and brought up something I didn't say.

Things have played out with the so-called 'vaccine' pretty much exactly as I predicted (wouldn't work for shit as a vaccine and would cause a lot of injuries and death) and pretty much exactly the opposite of what you vax-pumpers promised.  People are dying in droves and the excuses are well into total-ass-clown mode, yet you keep going with the same old fraud like the energizer bunny.

[o_e_l_e_o]

A man who works in the medical profession defends the indefensible, so how is it possible that in less than 1 year a vaccine can be invented, tested, produced and declared safe if any other drug requires at least 5 years of clinical research?

Firstly, near enough every vaccine scientist in the world was working on the same problem. Secondly, vaccine trials involve giving some people the vaccine, giving a control group a placebo, and then waiting. It is not ethical to deliberately expose people to a disease, so we have to wait. In the case of most diseases, it takes years to be sure there has been enough exposure to the disease in both groups to reveal a difference. In the case of global pandemic, the same exposure can be reached in months or even weeks.

That's the problem of you and others like you, you don't accept anything that doesn't work in your favor, regardless of who it is and how good the research is.

I don't accept opinions. Show me some evidence. I've asked anti-vaxxers on this board countless times for a single shred of evidence; they always respond with nothing.

[Mr.right85]

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny?

Tyranny is what China does in the name of "COVID safety," ie taking Shanghai residents and forcibly confining residents to their apartment buildings and even in some cases, euthanizing their pets.

Humans don't do so well when they feel there human rights are being restricted, even un the phase of impending danger but, how could the government do any better with the danger that loomed in the air and every citizen remains an asset to the government worth protecting.

The Covid-19 pandemic situation became a had to take and believe situation for most due to the fact that, most of the death tolls and infections weren't those that we often see around us but are often heard on the news although, the measures that arose to keep citizens safe were clearly seen in our very environments. This made it a had to believe and how she of these policies that ensures safety where slacken when it came to some issues of government interest like we could see during the rallies and polls in elections.

Unfortunately, these are all that were given attention and individuals failed to see the strive by the government to reduce production by withholding workers at home and other activities that could generate funds which could pose adverse effect to the economy, coupled with the many grants and palliatives that where given in the hit of the pandemic.

People will really believe what they want to believe and you can't really hold them from that but in all you do, stay safe as some things aren't worth experiencing before accepting to be true!

[Lucius]

I don't accept opinions. Show me some evidence. I've asked anti-vaxxers on this board countless times for a single shred of evidence; they always respond with nothing.

I believe that you only accept your opinion and the opinion of those who think like you, and that you will not take into account any scientific work that is not in accordance with your beliefs. Considering that you Americans have a very low opinion of other less valuable nations, I don't know if you will consider the research of a scientist who did not graduate from a prestigious US university. Pfizer has taken over his research and as far as I know, has not bothered to comment anything until today.

https://www.irb.hr/Zavodi/Zavod-za-molekularnu-biologiju/Laboratorij-za-evolucijsku-genetiku-LEG/Zaposlenici/Tomislav-Domazet-Loso
https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/13/5/719/htm

[mu_enrico]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general.

I don't think that were the important messages, but more of don't blindly trust government (and the scientists), and don't let them take your freedom.
Quarantine, mandatory vaccination, and vaccine passport are all infringing people's freedom.

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus?

Well, about tyranny, I'd say it's centrally planned, just like in economics. In economics, it's well documented that government interventions actually make everything worse than letting the market regulate itself. Human has been self-regulate and cope very well with viruses up to COVID. Why now does everything change so suddenly and the government thinks their interventions are better than letting the society self-regulate? It's beyond me. These smartasses are trying to tweak the unknown, and pretend they know the final results.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I believe that you only accept your opinion and the opinion of those who think like you

Or perhaps every serious piece of vaccine research all arrive at the same conclusion?

and that you will not take into account any scientific work that is not in accordance with your beliefs.

I am eager to read any scientific work which challenges or contradicts my views. That is the only way in which we learn, in which progress is made. What I am not eager to read is baseless speculation or opinions. Show me the evidence.

Considering that you Americans have a very low opinion of other less valuable nations

Lol. Just lol.

I don't know if you will consider the research of a scientist who did not graduate from a prestigious US university.

What you have linked is not research. It is an educated opinion piece. He obviously gives a very good breakdown of the potential mechanisms involved, but at no point does he present any evidence or data that retroposition occurs with the COVID vaccine. He even states "Here, I discuss the pervasive claim that mRNA-based vaccines cannot alter genomes."

Here are some actual studies which performed actual research, and concluded the opposite to the opinion piece you linked:
Chen YS, Lu S, Zhang B, et al. Comprehensive analysis of RNA-seq and whole genome sequencing data reveals no evidence for SARS-CoV-2 integrating into host genome. Protein Cell 2022 May; 13(5): 379-385.
Smits N, Rasmussen J, Bodea GO, et al. No evidence of human genome integration of SARS-CoV-2 found by long-read DNA sequencing. Cell Rep. 2021 Aug; 36(7): 109530.

[Out of PATIENCE]

Now who is blindly accepting anything that fits their narrative without any critical thought?

Touché  But the link was for you, I was merely trying to respond to your plea for one of your coveted professionals.
If you want to argue with the guy his contact info. is there.

But post the discussion! I realize you won't get paid-per-message to him, but maybe it'll be worth it in the long run.  

Being technically competent in one field does not preclude you from being a moron in another field. Being technically knowledgeable on bitcoin or cryptography does not make you a virologist or epidemiologist.

There are plenty in the medical field who have concerns. And yes there are plenty more of your type who want to follow their leaders and dismiss others as morons, FAIAP, I'd call a good majority of them sheeple.

What makes someone a moron is not having the ability to recognize that being a doctor doesn't make you smart either, it means you've studied certain books and information, ad nauseam, until you can memorize and repeat it properly.

We all have the ability to think for ourselves and do our own research, and we all have intuition.

I've done my research, I have my experiences, but I didn't keep a collection of links for you and hard-proof all of my real life experiences that have led me to where I am today. The post would be way too long.

[LTU_btc]

Bitcoiners like people in every society have different opinions and arguments for it. But sometimes both sides is looking ridiculous. Anti-vaxxers who blondly believe in stupid conspiracy theories, sharing videos of random wannabe doctors and so on. And vaxxers who wear masks walking in the streets or in their alone and who would like to forces everyone to get vaccinated and take every possible booster.
I have my views and it's more or less neutral. I'm vaccinated, but I don't support mandatory vaccination. For me it's crazy that people weren't allowed to live normal life without taking vaccine. Many lost jobs just because of it, weren't allowed into shops, restaurants. It's crazy how much vaccine passports divided people. And even politicians in public said that this measure wasn't made to protect people, but simply to force them to take vaccine.
I'm not against vaccines, but I think that it should be everyone's choice without forcing. For example, I'm still young without any health issues, so, covid wouldn't be big issue for me without vaccination. When I got infected, I wouldn't had even noticed it without testing. But I hat to take vaccine to get covid passport.
Boosters, most pointless thing. What's the point of booster when it barely protects from new variants? Even if protect, only for very short time. And when these new variants itself isn't that dangerous. And at one point government in my country decided that you have to take booster even if you have more than enough antibodies.
Lockdowns, I never supported it. Maybe only during first wave it was more or less needed to understand who is who. But in long term, lockdowns doesn't work. China example shows it very well.
Masks, I hate it, but probably at one point when there were no vaccines, it was needed inside or in public transport, I understand it. But when there was requirement to wear masks while walking in streets, it was most pointless and ridiculous covide related decision.
And last, people are sceptical about things said about covid by governments and politicians when they're often corrupted, lied so many times and don't keep what they promised before election.
Sorry for long rant

[o_e_l_e_o]

And yes there are plenty more of your type who want to follow their leaders and dismiss others as morons, FAIAP, I'd call a good majority of them sheeple.

I don't know how many times you guys are going to construct the same strawman, but it's getting boring. I don't follow any "leader" or pharmaceutical company, nor do the majority of my peers. We evaluate the evidence and reach our own conclusions. The fact that we all reach the same conclusion should tell you something.

We all have the ability to think for ourselves and do our own research, and we all have intuition.

No, you (plural) don't. Take the endless nonsensical arguments that anti-vaxxers such as BADecker and tvbcof have presented on this board. I present peer reviewed literature, randomized control trials, meta-analyses, Cochrane reviews, etc. They present BitChute videos, conspiracy vlogs, and biased media clippings. They do not see the disconnect. They honestly believe that these things constitute "evidence" and "research".

Not only can anti-vaxxers not "do their own research", but they don't even know what research is.

I've spoken about this before:

There is more to reading literature than just firing off lists of papers which you have hastily Googled which you think support your cause. You need to learn how to critically analyze research, weed out low quality case series or retrospective cohort reviews, pick out clear and hidden biases, assess the methodology, look for flaws in study designs and protocols, search for conflicts of interest, find any reporting errors, data errors, analysis errors, statistical errors, assess whether the data support the conclusions, the list goes on. Not only do anti-vaxxers not know how to do this, they don't even realize it is a process which should be done or even exists, which explains why they think a Bitchute video or some far right conspiracy blog is somehow "good evidence".

I've also said this before:

The numbers you have quoted prove the vaccine is 95% effective, it's just that you don't understand statistics. Which is fine - not everyone needs to understand statistics. The problem comes when anti-vaxxer nutjobs like the people making the video try to hold court and "educate" other people about things they don't understand.

It is not an insult to say "You are unable to evaluate scientific evidence." It is a skill which requires teaching and practice, and a skill which most people will never require. The problem arises when people without this skill try to make claims and hold court on things they don't even begin to understand.

[be.open]

Anti-vaxxers are still morons.

I haven't been vaccinated against covid-19, but I don't consider myself an moron. Not being vaccinated is my own deliberate decision - in this massive medical experiment, I chose to participate as an unvaccinated control group. 2.5 years after the start of the pandemic, I am still alive and well, although the level of antibodies in my blood is zero. I do not make loud statements about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of covid-19 vaccines, but my personal strategy for living without a covid-19 vaccine right now in practice is showing its viability and effectiveness - and you cannot refute this with any reference to scientific evidence. If I get covid-19 and need hospitalization - I admit that my strategy didn't work, but not before.

[Out of PATIENCE]

The fact that we all reach the same conclusion should tell you something.

You've studied the same materials and you've accepted the same data. Making decisions on global scale via data analysis that does not account for the majority of the population nor any long term consequences.

No, you (plural) don't.

By "We", I refer to all people have the ability to do their own research and all people have intuition they should use.
I now add everyone is unique.

but they don't even know what research is.

I agree things require research. No need to push an [experimental] vaccine on everyone when not enough research has been done.

You deem safe by unfairly using the credibility of traditional vaccines [not the same as mRNA] combined with analysis of the aforementioned incomplete data.

[cryptosize]

Bitcoiners have a motto: "don't trust, verify". Bitcoiners are also usually libertarians (they don't like everything being dictated by Feds/EU Commissars), not socialists/statists. BTC is not controlled by a government, but that doesn't mean it's apolitical. It tends to attract a certain target group (with very few exceptions).

We do know that almost 100% of patients in ICUs currently are vaccinated (whether they have 1, 2, 3, 4 doses). We already have an increased number of deaths (+30%), despite having 85% of the population vaccinated vs 0% vaccinations 2 years ago. Critical thinking has gone out the window.

Feminists have another motto: "my body, my choice".

You don't see many people saying "oh, the pension system needs more workers to pay taxes, therefore women should never have an abortion".

So, if women are allowed to control their body, I'd say "my body, my choice" also applies to COVID/experimental vaccines. Sounds fair to me.

Imagine an employer forcing a woman to have sex with him, otherwise she would be fired. Just imagine the #MeToo reactions/cancelling.

Hey girl, nobody forces you to have sex with him! You're always "free" to quit your job. "Freedom/Democracy", fuck yeah! Gotta love this (hypocritical) logic.

Sounds familiar? Because in some countries you do lose your job if you're not jabbed against COVID...

TL;DR: hypocrisy/double standards at its finest

This is a huge topic to be analyzed on a forum, but keep in mind that COVID (a disease with 0.2% IFR, while the Black Death had 30% IFR) has been weaponized to serve the Great Reset agenda.

Yes, COVID exists and is potentially deadly (especially if you're fat, diabetic or 80 years old), but not that deadly (if you're young and/or healthy) as the fearmongers want you to believe.

Always remember that you can control people with 2 powerful emotions: fear (exaggerated mortality) & guilt complex (oh noes, you're gonna kill the grandpa/grandma, shaaaaaame on you!).

COVID is Episode 1 of Great Reset. The Ukraine/Russia war (that's also being weaponized to increase food/fuel prices) is Episode 2.

Climate change/green energy transition will be Episode 3 (potentially starting in 2024-2025, when the war ends). Inflation will go through the roof with this one, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Regarding people wearing masks, even though they're alone outside with no human beings in sight: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments

Mass psychosis is real: https://21stcenturywire.com/2021/08/07/is-mass-psychosis-the-greatest-threat-to-humanity/

Even Dutch farmers protesting against the anti-meat agenda should tell you where the elites are going with this... red meat = minus points in your social credit score (thanks to Greta's mass psychosis), soy "meat" = plus points in your social credit score.

The COVID PASS app will integrate everything (your ID, passport, driving licence, medical history and CBDC+UBI+social credit score).

That's their endgame, they want to control how/where you spend your money, what you eat, where/how much you travel/drive and lots more.

COVID exists as I said, but it's merely an excuse to impose a totalitarian agenda:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timbajarin/2020/05/27/will-covid-19-kill-cash-as-we-know-it/

Use your brain/critical thinking skills and verify everything the elites say when they pretend to "care" about your wellbeing. Nobody cares for you more than you do!

One thing's for sure: BTC is not just about becoming more rich. Everyone comes for that, I get it, but it offers so much more.

Like for example enlightening you about economics/politics (Austrian school vs Keynes)... Keynesians want the state to have absolute control for "safety" reasons, which contradicts BTC's libertarian principles.

BTC is not just a boring piece of code/applied math, it's something more than that. Either you understand that, or you don't.

My advice is to not trust 99% of the stuff that comes from WEF and its puppets:

https://survivingtomorrow.org/you-will-own-nothing-and-be-happy-is-just-feudalism-2-0-ee15cefa9f1b
https://assets.weforum.org/editor/rrhGJo8kU-KjIsRiXF5pJTBEzAF96_pIfPiQVLCxGM4.jpeg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFjmigOXMAcrYmh?format=jpg&name=900x900

Biden, Macron, Trudeau, Ursula, Lagarde, Mitsotakis, Ida Auken, Bourla (didn't wanna get a shot with laughable excuses), they're all part of the same globalist gang. They don't give a shit about you. They're not part of your tribe, but they pretend to be! Don't trust them.

Only a moron wouldn't understand that something fishy is going on since 2020:

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjf0uFZBjU&t=75s

There's tons of stuff I could also mention, but that's enough for now. PlanB has posted many relevant tweets. Do your own research.

[Gyfts]

Anti-vaxxers are still morons.

I haven't been vaccinated against covid-19, but I don't consider myself an moron. Not being vaccinated is my own deliberate decision - in this massive medical experiment, I chose to participate as an unvaccinated control group. 2.5 years after the start of the pandemic, I am still alive and well, although the level of antibodies in my blood is zero. I do not make loud statements about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of covid-19 vaccines, but my personal strategy for living without a covid-19 vaccine right now in practice is showing its viability and effectiveness - and you cannot refute this with any reference to scientific evidence. If I get covid-19 and need hospitalization - I admit that my strategy didn't work, but not before.

If you live in civilized society you've probably already gotten the virus and not even known about it. The newer variants are mild anyways



Those that still believe the vaccine is effective against new variants, I'd point you to this chart: https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/nz

There are more cases and deaths associated with COVID-19 in New Zealand with a 95% vaccinated population over the last 7 months than there were in 2020 and 2021 combined. The vaccines that were once effective, are no longer effective.

The CDC is now recommending that anyone older than 6 months get vaccinated: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/children-teens.html

Based on what evidence?

[tvbcof]

Anti-vaxxers are still morons.

I haven't been vaccinated against covid-19, but I don't consider myself an moron. Not being vaccinated is my own deliberate decision - in this massive medical experiment, I chose to participate as an unvaccinated control group. 2.5 years after the start of the pandemic, I am still alive and well, although the level of antibodies in my blood is zero. I do not make loud statements about the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of covid-19 vaccines, but my personal strategy for living without a covid-19 vaccine right now in practice is showing its viability and effectiveness - and you cannot refute this with any reference to scientific evidence. If I get covid-19 and need hospitalization - I admit that my strategy didn't work, but not before.

Dead wrong IMO.  Most strategies involve probabilities.  If you have made an accurate assessment of the risks of genuine injury from the covaids and base your strategy on that, you could still die from it and have made a rational decision.

Is it a 'mistake' to wear a harness when climbing an antenna tower just because you didn't happen to slip and fall?

One of the elements of the coviads scamdemic is that reliable data about many many aspects of the thing needed to make rational decisions is unavailable.  In many cases, although the data is utterly fundamental and relatively easy to precisely estimate (e.g., background infection rate), it has been diligently NOT obtained.  This is very deliberate because it allows the 'authorities' to say 'We know of no indications of blah, blah, blah.' and they use this as legal justification to perpetuate the fraud.

Tests are also lagging, questionable in validity, and used in a highly fraudulent way.  Again, by strategic design.  You may indeed have antibodies.  As a matter of fact, a fair percentage of the global population had pre-existing antibodies and other immune system defenses and couldn't catch SARS-cov-2 even if they tried.  This likely because of run-ins with previous coronavirus (which is one of the types of virus which commonly cause the seasonal common cold.)

Seasonal infectious ailment, and particularly respiratory ones, act as a booster in human populations making it so that most people don't catch every in a symptomatic form at all, and most who do get a mild case which is gone in a few days.  Millions of years of evolution have tuned human's immune systems for this to be the common case.  To the degree that masks, social distancing, and especially applying evolutionary pressures to a pathogen by 'vaccination' work at all, these protocols are likely to fuck the ecology up completely and lead to significant problems. 

The best defense is to, as much as possible, live like a normal human with traditionally normal interactions, and try to keep your immune system healthy.  If a genuinely problematic epidemic is in town, then maybe do take some extraordinary precautions.  DON'T listen to the 'public health' authorities and the 'doctors' who are in their echo-chamber and on the industry dole.  At the top of their pyramid the decision makers probably do understand the ecological science behind what's going on and the WANT sick and dead people.  The peons (including most doctors) below them mostly do not.  All they know is that the system gives them a somewhat better standard of living than most people, and intuitively they know that they don't want to lose these perks.  Beyond that they don't seem to care much about anything, and certainly not about science.

[BlackHatCoiner]

So, if women are allowed to control their body, I'd say "my body, my choice" also applies to COVID/experimental vaccines. Sounds fair to me.

Flawed comparison. Abortions aren't infectious. But, sure. "My body, my choice" applies in both cases.

Yes, COVID exists and is potentially deadly (especially if you're fat, diabetic or 80 years old), but not that deadly (if you're young and/or healthy) as the fearmongers want you to believe.

So why do the fearmongers want me to believe it? What do they gain if I do the vaccine?

That's their endgame, they want to control how/where you spend your money, what you eat, where/how much you travel/drive and lots more.

Don't they already have this benefit from the overwhelming majority? A few companies (Meta, Google, Apple, Amazon etc.) do personal data harvesting in a disgusting manner. People already pay to have spying devices inside their home. They reveal more than what's desirable for a big brother. Will there be significant difference with just a Covid app?

[BlackHatCoiner]

I'm a little late to the party, but I finally get it now.

He's talking like he's knowing everything about virology, medical research and so on but what's his profession exactly, virologist? 

He actually doesn't. I've never seen him talking about the vaccine's efficiency, which is what a virologist should be doing. What he does do is analyze certain distortions that were proved they played a key role in the world of health, the legal consequences of mandatory vaccination, and generally the whole systemic propaganda that was launched and that had a terrorist character.

In Covid-19, just like in climate change now, it was demonstrated that in order to encounter the pandemic, draconian moderation must be justified, which is a common phenomenon in totalitarian regimes. Not only that, but the governments (which appear to be ruled like puppets from another group of modern-aristocrats) misrepresented reality; threat became incentive, punishment became paternalistic protection, deathly risk became solidarity duty.

And it makes sense now, because, incidentally, that's what the elitists' agenda is all about: https://nitter.it/wef/status/808328302213689344.

• Have less money --> Be happy with less money.
• Have less energy --> Be rewarded for using less energy.
• Have no privacy --> Get yourself some credit points.

And the agenda is indissolubly linked with the pandemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset. They said it themselves that it's a response to it. Covid-19 must have been a meat and drink for what's about to begin, no doubt. Conformists have risen in scale, and any dissident's opinion is denied without question.

Interest appears to provoke the Milgram experiment, as certainly the Standford prison experiment, both of whose techniques were used during the pandemic, in order for the participants to follow the instructions. However, instead of prisoners there were citizens, and instead of guards, there was the government. Exceptionally, conformist prisoners helped the dissidents, opposed to conformist citizens of 2020.

[NotATether]

And it makes sense now, because, incidentally, that's what the elitists' agenda is all about: https://nitter.it/wef/status/808328302213689344.

• Have less money --> Be happy with less money.
• Have less energy --> Be rewarded for using less energy.
• Have no privacy --> Get yourself some credit points.

And the agenda is indissolubly linked with the pandemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset. They said it themselves that it's a response to it. Covid-19 must have been a meat and drink for what's about to begin, no doubt. Conformists have risen in scale, and any dissident's opinion is denied without question.

Interest appears to provoke the Milgram experiment, as certainly the Standford prison experiment, both of whose techniques were used during the pandemic, in order for the participants to follow the instructions. However, instead of prisoners there were citizens, and instead of guards, there was the government. Exceptionally, conformist prisoners helped the dissidents, opposed to conformist citizens of 2020.

Honest question. You don't actually believe all that garbage, do you? At least that's what I see it as (as somebody who has lived in an actual totalarian system, as opposed to what people think is one).

[BlackHatCoiner]

You don't actually believe all that garbage, do you?

Which part do you deny exactly? That we're experiencing bureaucratic dictatorship? That things will get worse? That there's such agenda?

[cryptosize]

And it makes sense now, because, incidentally, that's what the elitists' agenda is all about: https://nitter.it/wef/status/808328302213689344.

• Have less money --> Be happy with less money.
• Have less energy --> Be rewarded for using less energy.
• Have no privacy --> Get yourself some credit points.

And the agenda is indissolubly linked with the pandemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset. They said it themselves that it's a response to it. Covid-19 must have been a meat and drink for what's about to begin, no doubt. Conformists have risen in scale, and any dissident's opinion is denied without question.

Interest appears to provoke the Milgram experiment, as certainly the Standford prison experiment, both of whose techniques were used during the pandemic, in order for the participants to follow the instructions. However, instead of prisoners there were citizens, and instead of guards, there was the government. Exceptionally, conformist prisoners helped the dissidents, opposed to conformist citizens of 2020.

Honest question. You don't actually believe all that garbage, do you? At least that's what I see it as (as somebody who has lived in an actual totalarian system, as opposed to what people think is one).

I hate to say it, but USSR (you probably lived there) never truly died.

It just moved to Europe, aka EUSSR. Same bureaucracy, same overregulation, same BS in general.

Don't believe it? I didn't want to believe it either, I'm not a masochist.

Just wait until 2025 and you'll see even more clear signs...

By 2030 we will see the endgame and it won't be pretty at all.

[NotATether]

You don't actually believe all that garbage, do you?

Which part do you deny exactly? That we're experiencing bureaucratic dictatorship? That things will get worse? That there's such agenda?

The whole agenda thing. Politicans are not exactly known for agreeing with each other (let alone cooperating).

It just makes InfoWars alarm bells go off in my head.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The whole agenda thing. Politicans are not exactly known for agreeing with each other (let alone cooperating).

If you think it's a conspiracy theory (which I presume is what you think with the "InfoWars" reference), let me tell you that they (the aristocrats at WEF) call it an agenda themselves:

The Great Reset agenda would have three main components. [...]

The third component of a Great Reset agenda is to "harness the innovations of the Fourth Industrial Revolution" for the public good.

No room to question that part.

What else don't you agree with? That they want absolute surveillance? That they want to reduce energy usage? That, during the pandemic, they misrepresented everything? That there was systemic cunning propaganda? The Standford prison and Milgram experiments comparison? That civilians were segregated according to their obedience (and who'll soon be even more separated with social credit scores)? That there's an elite group that rules politicians? Pick something from the garbage can. 

[1miau]

I'm a little late to the party, but I finally get it now.

He's talking like he's knowing everything about virology, medical research and so on but what's his profession exactly, virologist? 

He actually doesn't. I've never seen him talking about the vaccine's efficiency, which is what a virologist should be doing. What he does do is analyze certain distortions that were proved they played a key role in the world of health, the legal consequences of mandatory vaccination, and generally the whole systemic propaganda that was launched and that had a terrorist character.

And that’s DerGigi's big problem. DerGigi's statements are done without any background knowledge of the actual issue, he’s commenting on.
The Anti-Vaxxers have one thing in common: they are talking a lot and very loud, but they are usually from a different profession or coming from different branches of medicine, like Bodo Schiffman from Germany, he’s specialist for dizziness attacks. DerGigi isn’t even involved in health issues...

So, how can he say that Covid19 is just an overhyped flu when he hasn’t done any studied research or isn’t capable of reviewing studies? His statements are based on the wrong ground, therefore he’s advocating that restrictions are "dictatorship" when he’s saying, Corona would be just a normal flu. Heck, obviously he doesn’t even look at the excess mortality we had in Europe, when Covid hit us in March / April 2020.
He’s saying that vaccines don’t work and therefore everything saying otherwise is "systemic propaganda" for him. But he can’t review even the basic medical studies because he’s a Bitcoiner.  DerGigi is caught in his conspiracy bubble.

= He can’t judge the outcome properly (measures to prevent Corona / vaccinations), when his basic assumptions are wrong already because he’s not capable to do the appropriate research. And that’s why DerGigi's conclusion ("the whole systemic propaganda that was launched and that had a terrorist character" as you said) is completely wrong.
Of course, if the government doesn’t act against Corona, the conspiracy nuts will come up and say "the government is going to kill us all, Bill Gates has advocated for the reduction of the world population in the past, it‘s his Agenda and Klaus Schwaab agrees".

In Covid-19, just like in climate change now, it was demonstrated that in order to encounter the pandemic, draconian moderation must be justified, which is a common phenomenon in totalitarian regimes. Not only that, but the governments (which appear to be ruled like puppets from another group of modern-aristocrats) misrepresented reality; threat became incentive, punishment became paternalistic protection, deathly risk became solidarity duty.

And it makes sense now, because, incidentally, that's what the elitists' agenda is all about: https://nitter.it/wef/status/808328302213689344.

...

And the agenda is indissolubly linked with the pandemic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset. They said it themselves that it's a response to it. Covid-19 must have been a meat and drink for what's about to begin, no doubt. Conformists have risen in scale, and any dissident's opinion is denied without question.

I’m with you that a single country can’t prevent climate change alone.
But we have to admit that human made climate change is real and the consequences will hit everyone very hard. Maybe not right now, but 20, 50 and 100 years ahead will get very difficult.
Since you are from Greece, you should have noticed the severe drought in France / Germany / Italy right now? There are statistics and there’s no doubt that climate change is happening. And it’s getting worse.
But it’s real and not some random "invention by Klaus Schwab" same as Corona is not "just a flu" like DerGigi claims it is.
It might be a bit different with Omikron right now as it was expected by experts, that the disease will become endemic and less harmful over time. It could still take some more years, which is especially risky for elderly people.
And no, I’m not a grandpa, I’m in my 20s and I’m not part of the risk group. But the numbers are there, we can’t deny it and just because some people on Twitter or BitChute with no special knowledge say "it’s just a flu" or "vaccines are „death jabs“", that doesn’t change the fact that Corona shouldn’t be underestimated and we should take appropriate measures against it.
Similar to climate change.

In Germany, the green party suggested a speed limit recently. The conspiracy nuts are saying, that will endanger our freedom.
Honestly, a speed limit will not endanger our freedom and wearing a mask doesn’t endanger our freedom as well. Wearing a seatbelt is also not a danger to our freedom.
But the other thing: is a speed limit really effective to against climate change? In my opinion, that’s not achieving much. But it’s also not harmful for our freedom. 

But of course, conspiracy nuts will come up with a special story again and say otherwise.
For our current drought they are also coming up with interesting stories. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

And that’s DerGigi's big problem. DerGigi's statements are done without any background knowledge of the actual issue, he’s commenting on.

I haven't seen any post he makes regarding vaccines, would you mind sharing a link? I don't say a word for vaccine's effectiveness, because I don't have any evidence to support my statement. I don't care about that anyway, I assume it's effective as some virologists say. That doesn't change my attitude on how they've found their way to step on your freedom. The agenda exists. The tendency to tyranny is here, and gets worse day by day. Misrepresentation has happened. Civilians' segregation has happened.

He’s saying that vaccines don’t work and therefore everything saying otherwise is "systemic propaganda" for him.

Whether vaccines work or not (which I can't honestly understand, some doctors argue they don't), there was, and is, systemic propaganda. If you don't agree, I can cross-reference you to article I read recently, as an example, from government owned newspaper, that had the character I've said, that is representing the risk as solidarity duty, ignoring possible side effects such vaccine can have for the entire population[1], therefore hiding part of the reality, hereby faking news.

But we have to admit that human made climate change is real and the consequences will hit everyone very hard.

I have never once supported it isn't real. What I'm saying is: The changes it'll bring are political, and that's why I don't bite most of the solutions they've proposed[2].

cryptosize knows best. When he's talking about these I was trying to figure out how bitcoin works. 

[1] https://www.constitutionalism.gr/to-kathikon-tou-emvoliasmou/
[2] Relevant link for Greek readers: https://theindependentresearchers.wordpress.com/2022/05/27/natural-assets/

[cryptosize]

they are usually from a different profession

Just like Bill Gates, right? 

When did he get his medical degree? 

[1miau]

And that’s DerGigi's big problem. DerGigi's statements are done without any background knowledge of the actual issue, he’s commenting on.

I haven't seen any post he makes regarding vaccines, would you mind sharing a link? I don't say a word for vaccine's effectiveness, because I don't have any evidence to support my statement.

Yes, I haven't seen him making posts about vaccine's effectiveness as well but my point was since he's making accusations about restrictions being too much, the vaccine being pushed too much, he's commenting on the assumption, that Corona would be "just a flu" and that restrictions / vaccinations wouldn't be beneficial.
That's why I said:

= He can’t judge the outcome properly (measures to prevent Corona / vaccinations), when his basic assumptions are wrong already because he’s not capable to do the appropriate research. And that’s why DerGigi's conclusion ("the whole systemic propaganda that was launched and that had a terrorist character" as you said) is completely wrong.

Of course, governments will launch a campaign to recommend vaccination because studies have shown it's beneficial.
Today, almost no restrictions are in place anymore in Germany, infections numbers are 20 times (!) higher than last summer and still only few restrictions like mask and test in hospitals to protect vulnerable groups, so I can't see "Agenda or tyranny".
There are misguided politicians yes, but as NotAThether said: politicians are very different on various issues. A society where you will agree to everything doesn't exist. And even when it's your neighbour doing bullshit and you don't agree with. 

If you are talking for China: yes, it's a different thing in China and we could describe it as "tyranny" indeed in China, when people's frontdoors are sealed by the CCP. And many more but things are very different between China and Japan, China and EU, China and US or China and (take whatever coutry you like (except North Korea)). 

But we have to admit that human made climate change is real and the consequences will hit everyone very hard.

I have never once supported it isn't real. What I'm saying is: The changes it'll bring are political, and that's why I don't bite most of the solutions they've proposed[2].

That's true, we should always discuss it what to do. Look, I'm a friend of a good steak and the greens / environmentalists want to reduce meat consumption to prevent climate change. 
Of course I'm not amused but meat production is causing lots of emissions. Of course, reducing meat production isn't "tyranny", to. 
There are always (dis) agreements and uncomfortable decisions to be made, always has been but that doesn't mean that there's some broad agenda to bring China-like communism everywhere.

they are usually from a different profession

Just like Bill Gates, right? 
When did he get his medical degree?

Exactly, therefore people should look at peer reviewed studies, excess mortality from Corona and what's happening at hospitals, where Corona-infections are treated. Ask these with experience, not Bill Gates and not DerGigi. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

A society where you will agree to everything doesn't exist.

No. That's why people protest, even though I've always wondered about the effectiveness of protesting overtime. Anyway, when things you don't approve of or don't like happen, you react. Sounds natural.

Of course, reducing meat production isn't "tyranny"

But, why is this not tyranny and China with sealed frontdoors is? In both cases, they essentially dictate the way you're living. That's what's happening with energy usage, and they portrait it like something good and ethical.

always has been but that doesn't mean that there's some broad agenda to bring China-like communism everywhere.

What's more communist than "Welcome to 2030, you have nothing, no privacy and life and has never been better"? This isn't told by some DerGigi-like "conspiracy quacks". It's tweeted by the folks who rule about the entire European Union as we speak?

Exactly, therefore people should look at peer reviewed studies, excess mortality from Corona and what's happening at hospitals, where Corona-infections are treated.

I'm eagerly trying to comprehend these statistics, but due to my complete irrelevance to virology and inability to make any conclusion, I don't and can't have an opinion. Plus, some doctors make these assertions, other doctors make other assertions, I honestly don't know what to believe.

[Techkoy407]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general. I follow some people here and there, for bitcoin related stuff, and dergigi is one whom I enjoy reading. Even he has written an article regarding what we're all going through these years, referring to it as "Tyranny".

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

Not self-moderated; I suppose we keep things civil.

That's natural, because that's a form of their concern about COVID-19 or vaccines.
because this vaccine strikes suddenly, in an instant the world is shaken,
So it's not surprising that people panic or worry about vaccines, because they are afraid that things they don't want will happen.

[cryptosize]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general. I follow some people here and there, for bitcoin related stuff, and dergigi is one whom I enjoy reading. Even he has written an article regarding what we're all going through these years, referring to it as "Tyranny".

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

Not self-moderated; I suppose we keep things civil.

That's natural, because that's a form of their concern about COVID-19 or vaccines.
because this vaccine strikes suddenly, in an instant the world is shaken,
So it's not surprising that people panic or worry about vaccines, because they are afraid that things they don't want will happen.

This gene therapy (not really a vaccine, there is no virus inside) is a time-ticking bomb...

[BADecker]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general. I follow some people here and there, for bitcoin related stuff, and dergigi is one whom I enjoy reading. Even he has written an article regarding what we're all going through these years, referring to it as "Tyranny".

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

Not self-moderated; I suppose we keep things civil.

That's natural, because that's a form of their concern about COVID-19 or vaccines.
because this vaccine strikes suddenly, in an instant the world is shaken,
So it's not surprising that people panic or worry about vaccines, because they are afraid that things they don't want will happen.

This gene therapy (not really a vaccine, there is no virus inside) is a time-ticking bomb...

For the US...

But, is Bitcoin like this? Somebody invented a real Bitcoin physical coin. Government talked him into stopping production. So, he stopped, without fighting to court, even.

But he didn't have to stop. All he had to do, and all Bitcoin people have to do, is fork Bitcoin so that there is the proper Private Membership Association (PMA) statement right inside the fork client/core, and inside any bitcoin coins that are made from it.

What will this do? It will take it out of government regulation, because it is private. Every transaction is a private transaction. Government may try to regulate, but based on the Constitution, Amendments 1, 4 and 5 (and others), and 70+ Supreme Court cases, private is still private, even from government.

Consider the Contract Clause in the Constitution. I have bolded the parts that we are interested in::

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

...

State, above, also means the United States.

If the fork is written up as a contract between the people who use the Bitcoin addresses, the whole thing is taken right out of the authority of government to regulate it. In fact, the reason why government hasn't regulated Bitcoin and the altcoins to be gone already, is because cryptocurrencies ARE private contracts, but without the contract wording written within them. Simply add the literal contract wording to the clients/cores, and they won't regulatable by the SEC any longer. Why? Because they are private contracts between the people.

[montaga]

...........is a time-ticking bomb...

Ticking slow, very slow. What will it be when its finished?
https://sensereceptornews.com/?p=13907

[cryptosize]

...........is a time-ticking bomb...

Ticking slow, very slow. What will it be when its finished?
https://sensereceptornews.com/?p=13907

That's nanotechnology at work.

[worldofcoins]

Since the beginning of the pandemic, I've noticed lots of people, including Bitcoiners, be against vaccines, quarantine, Covid in general. I follow some people here and there, for bitcoin related stuff, and dergigi is one whom I enjoy reading. Even he has written an article regarding what we're all going through these years, referring to it as "Tyranny".

What I don't understand, and I'm all ears, is the arguments. Why is it tyranny? And even if it is, how's supposed a society cope with a virus? Even if we assume it comes from a lab, isn't deadly, enriches vaccine companies and the like. It concerns me, because rational people whom I've learnt a lot from don't go quite well with this.

Not self-moderated; I suppose we keep things civil.

There can be a long debate on this, but in precise words, all have their own opinion and thinking about anything, and we cannot force anyone to change their views on our thoughts and willingness. However, keep yourself vigilant with the requirements and need of time.