I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously

[o_e_l_e_o]

IMO it'd be better to just quietly move those coins to your own wallet (after learning a little more about bitcoin).

I doubt the cops would ever find out if you just used the funds on the wallet you found.  In crypto, it's basically finders-keepers in situations like this.

What? No. Finders keepers? So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you? Sure, OP is highly unlikely to get caught, but that hardly makes it morally OK.

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work? I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

All you need is the address (which one of the presumably two QR codes will be encoding) and you can look that address up on any public block explorer website* to see the balance. Every transaction on bitcoin is public and can be viewed by anyone. All you need to know is the relevant address.

Make sure you do not enter the private key in to an electronic device or scan its QR code, as doing so risks the funds being stolen.

*Examples:
https://mempool.space/
https://blockchair.com/

[1714675374]

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[1714675374]

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[1714675374]

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[Charles-Tim]

What? No. Finders keepers? So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you? Sure, OP is highly unlikely to get caught, but that hardly makes it morally OK.

I think this is not the same as hardware wallet. If it is hardware wallet, the seed phrase is still secure and safe than to be compromised, unlike a private key that that is written on a paoer or card or where it was easily found written, I can assume it to be like that. If it is a hardware wallet, I can report it to the appropriate governmental organization for appropriate action to look for the right owner, but if it is a paper wallet that everyone can see the private key easily written just on paper, I can think otherwise, especially in the kind of country I am that I know everyone are ready to scam you, including the government officials. I may just leave the coin there for years, later just move just like 1/10 of the coins and so on, I can do that for like 10 years. If no one moved the coin after so many years, then the coins are mine.

But if the remaining coin is moved to just one address, I will think the owner of the coin has known that his paper wallet has been compromised and moved the coin to another wallet. I can send worth of 9/10 of the total coin to the address the remaining coin was sent to and I will have 1/10. Just my opinion.

[Pmalek]

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work?

It seems that you scanned and opened the address that hold the bitcoins on a blockchain explorer. It can be any of them. Here is an example of what info about a random BTC address you can find on Mempool.space for example. As you can see, there are 3 fields at the top: total received, total sent, and the final balance. Did you see similar data on your end as well? Does the address still contain the coins or did it only have a history of received bitcoin but a 0 final balance?  

I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

Nothing else is needed to look up the balance of an address. It's a bit different when you want to spend the coins. For that you need a private key or the seed.

[BlackHatCoiner]

So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you?

If I found an object on the street that isn't mine, and whose ownership cannot be proven, I'd find it morally okay to keep it. For example, cash. A mobile or hardware wallet isn't good analogy, because the owner can very well prove it's theirs. A paper wallet, if not written in a special way, is the same as cash.

I think this is not the same as hardware wallet. If it is hardware wallet, the seed phrase is still secure and safe than to be compromised

The seed phrase isn't saved in the hardware device, but the master private keys are. So, if you don't use a strong passphrase, you can have your funds confiscated without your permission.

[Charles-Tim]

The seed phrase isn't saved in the hardware device, but the master private keys are. So, if you don't use a strong passphrase, you can have your funds confiscated without your permission.

That's why I said I would assume it is safe. It is very possible that the hardware wallet can be compromised, it depends. But I can still just consider it to be reported, unlike paper wallet's private key.

Seed phrase are stored on hardware wallet, that is the function of secure element, or microcontroller unit on wallet like Trezor, just that it is hard to reach or compromised if stored on secure element.

That is true, using a strong passphrase on hardware wallet just for extra protection would help against attack.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I think this is not the same as hardware wallet. If it is hardware wallet, the seed phrase is still secure and safe than to be compromised, unlike a private key that that is written on a paoer or card or where it was easily found written, I can assume it to be like that.

So hacking a hardware wallet is theft, but stealing a paper wallet isn't? Why?

A paper wallet, if not written in a special way, is the same as cash.

No, it isn't. The owner no longer has access to lost cash. The owner may very well still have access to these bitcoins.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Seed phrase are stored on hardware wallet

I don't think it is. It's just the "Account private key".

In the context of Trezor device, the only relevant information is that the account private key is mathematically derived from the recovery seed using BIP39 standard. The account private key is used to generate all private keys, public keys and addresses for specific account.
[...]
Because the private key is the "ticket" that allows someone to spend coins, it is important that it is kept secure. Trezor allows the users to store the private key safely - it never leaves the device, and all transactions are signed in Trezor.

However, with passphrase, your hidden wallet's private keys aren't stored in the device, because neither is the passphrase:

The passphrase is not stored anywhere on the device. It is only used temporarily whenever you enter it.

No, it isn't. The owner no longer has access to lost cash. The owner may very well still have access to these bitcoins.

And that's why I advice to send them the message. If they don't react after a certain time span, it's probably because they can't. You don't have many choices. You either decide to never touch the wallet acknowledging it doesn't fit your moral temperament or you decide to spend the money at some point in the future.

[witcher_sense]

Seed phrase are stored on hardware wallet

I don't think it is. It's just the "Account private key".

I am just curious, how does Trezor wallet generate "hidden" private keys without knowing those mnemonic words?

[PrivacyG]

And that's why I advice to send them the message. If they don't react after a certain time span, it's probably because they can't. You don't have many choices. You either decide to never touch the wallet acknowledging it doesn't fit your moral temperament or you decide to spend the money at some point in the future.

Or, they have not realized the paper wallet is missing yet or they are still hoping it was lost somewhere inside their house.  Or, they just bought Bitcoin and decided to not touch them at all for a span of 1 or 2 decades.  Or, who the heck knows.

I can only agree it is morally incorrect to play the 'finders keepers' game in this situation.  Remember there are insanely large wallets that have not moved for a decade and started moving only this year (or last year).  This could be yet another theoretically lost one, but practically who knows.  It could be years from now that the owner will finally come to the surprising reality that their paper wallet has vanished.

I also support the idea of publishing the public key here just in case the owner has no other backup besides the one they lost on the beach.  And if ownership can be proved, they can have it.  If I was OP, I would either hand it out to the right guy or, if that is not possible, then I would just consider the 0.6 BTC as yet another Bitcoin lost forever.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[Charles-Tim]

So hacking a hardware wallet is theft, but stealing a paper wallet isn't? Why?

I just meant that it is easy to compromise a paper wallet if compared to a hardware wallet. Seeing a paper wallet is like seeing money, unlike hardware wallet that require extra work which the people given may not go for. But you are right, it is good to go for the best option that would get back the coins to the real owner.

I don't think it is. It's just the "Account private key".

Just passphrase are not stored on hardware wallet. I thought it is not new to you, a physical attack that can reveal Trezor seed phrase. Even on wallets that have secure element, the seed phrase are stored on secure element, but hard to compromised.

It is essential to store the recovery seed in a safe place - without it, all the private keys and funds are irreversibly lost.

A warning in case of a lost wallet.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If I was OP, I would either hand it out to the right guy or, if that is not possible, then I would just consider the 0.6 BTC as yet another Bitcoin lost forever.

Isn't morally incorrect to not utilize money that might be lost? If you knew that it's likely for the owner to have lost access, wouldn't it be incorrect to "donate to everyone" instead of making a usage that's more morally correct, for example charity?

Let's say you never find contact with the owner. In that case:

• There's a chance for the owner to still have access, and never realize he's lost the backup. Emptying the wallet in that case would be morally incorrect.
• There's a chance for the owner to not have access, and can't provide you the necessary evidence. Burning the wallet in that case would be morally incorrect, because emptying it would have the potential to do more good than making everyone else's coins more valuable.

So, whether you burn or spend the coins, you have the potential to have incorrect attitude.

[Lucius]

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address? Maybe it would help in some way to get some information about the real owner - although it is not clear to me why the OP has not already published this information?

Maybe he still doesn't understand the difference between an address and a private key, but after 4 pages of discussion some things should be pretty clear...

[PrivacyG]

Isn't morally incorrect to not utilize money that might be lost? If you knew that it's likely for the owner to have lost access, wouldn't it be incorrect to "donate to everyone" instead of making a usage that's more morally correct, for example charity?

I would not move the Bitcoin at all.  If they can prove they are the owner they can have it, if they can not then neither of us will have it, nor will they be donated or burned.  I think this is the best way to do it and also the closest to what we consider to be 'moral' today.

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address?

Just wait for LoyceV's answer, they are probably preparing that just as we speak!

I would like to add that 0.6104 might actually not be the exact amount this paper wallet contains.  So if anyone is looking through addresses, keep this in mind.  Some wallets hide the last few digits, and OP's might have hidden them as well so it could be anything from 0.61040000 to 0.61049999.  Should get a pretty short list of colliding results though, it is a pretty 'random' amount to have in a wallet.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[Minase]

18 wallets with that balance and all of them are over 2 years old

[o_e_l_e_o]

I just meant that it is easy to compromise a paper wallet if compared to a hardware wallet. Seeing a paper wallet is like seeing money, unlike hardware wallet that require extra work which the people given may not go for.

Irrelevant. Whether or not it is morally right to steal money which does not belong to you does not depend whatsoever on either how easy that money is to steal or how likely you are to get away with it.

Isn't morally incorrect to not utilize money that might be lost?

No. Because bitcoin that might be lost equally might not be lost at all.

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address?

OP said "0.6104...ish". There are no addresses which contain exactly 0.6104 bitcoin. There are 85 addresses which contain between 0.61040000 and 0.61049999 bitcoin.

[Pmalek]

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address?

OP didn't mention the exact amount. He was only talking about an approximation:

a btc balance of 0.6104...ish.

This discussion reminds me of all those topics where people discuss what should be done with lost coins or the coins that people consider to be lost and irretrievable. The answer is nothing. The network cannot and must not be manipulated to put any coins back into circulation just because some of them are lost or people consider them to be lost due to the fact they haven't moved in a decade. If immutability is a pillar of Bitcoin, it has to remain that no matter what. You don't know if I have coins that haven't moved in since 2012. Maybe I am planning to keep them there for 30 years and it's my retirement. I don't have to prove to anyone that I am still here and those are still my coins. Bitcoin stops being Bitcoin with such changes.

If OP can't find the right owner of the paper wallet, nothing should happen with those coins, ever. Maybe the wallet belongs to someone who invested in Bitcoin and has no interest in checking his wallet or the blockchain for the next decade or two, and once he is ready to use them in 20-30 years, they should still be there.

@OP do your best to try to find the legitimate owner but don't move their coins.   

[dkbit98]

So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you? Sure, OP is highly unlikely to get caught, but that hardly makes it morally OK.

But they are all locked and have security protection and passphrases, so they wouldn't be able to empty out anything (unless they are Kingpin), and you shouldn't carry your hardware or paper wallet on beach anyway.
Let's say few years ago I lost/forgot a photo camera in beach, and I never reported it as stolen because I lost it and it's my fault, nobody came and took it from me with a knife.
I am not going to put guilt on someone else for doing something wrong, when I was simply careless.

So hacking a hardware wallet is theft, but stealing a paper wallet isn't? Why?

Finding a paper wallet, not stealing.
There is a big difference.
If you think that any thing someone found was stolen in the world, than we are living in world that stole 99% of things and land from other people.
It's not the same if I found a piece of land nobody is using, and if I kill someone and take away land from him.

To conclude, I would personally try to find original owner of paper wallet.
After reasonable amount of time I would give one part to charity or poor people, and I would just stake rest of the coins for future.

[n0nce]

~snip~
There's soo much rubbish blown onto this beach. Beachcombing passes the time whilst the dogs chase birds and roll in the remains of dead fish. I also came home with 2 x rubber dog balls and a funky piece of driftwood.

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work? I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

Fair call. No worries.

That's odd to me; last time I made a paper wallet with QR code (that's a long time back, though), when scanned the code literally contained the private key - nothing more, nothing less. A second QR code contained a cleartext representation of the address / public key, but neither QR code led you directly to a website with the wallet's balance.

Different types of such paper wallet generators floated around in the past, but I'm surprised that an old paper wallet contains a web link that still works. So many Bitcoin sites went offline; exchanges, online wallets and also block explorers.

So, whether you burn or spend the coins, you have the potential to have incorrect attitude.

Whatever is correct or not, largely depends on whatever ethic you base your morals upon. Is it Hedonism, Consequentialism, Utilitarianism, ... It's a personal question, so there will be no right or wrong.

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address? Maybe it would help in some way to get some information about the real owner - although it is not clear to me why the OP has not already published this information?

UTXO set is not too large. Should be possible to scan it for unspent transaction outputs with a value of 0\.6104.* in reasonable amount of time.
Edit: No need to reinvent the wheel. Use available tools. Such as blockchair.com.

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/outputs?s=value(asc)&q=value(61040000.00000001..61049999),is_spent(false)
This query returns (as of right now) 127 UTXOs with 0.6104-0.61049999 BTC balance.

[franky1]

this image is not about the topics specific find. but im just leaving an image via google which might explain why a guy found a paperwallet in a sealed bag.. not the first time someone found a random bag with a paper wallet included
(hint: geocaching)


image found on google, image speaks a thousand words

[Wind_FURY]

If you do not know the real owner, then you can not know the owner. The reason we should keep our private key or seed phrase safe in a safe location.

Or if you don't see the "real owner" anywhere and you hold the private jey of a wallet containing some Bitcoins, THEN YOU are the owner. Private key holder controls the wallet. Is it theft? It's not, it's a feature of self-custody in Bitcoin, which makes it a very powerful tool. No one controls your wealth, except you as the holder of the private key, not the government, not the banks, not ANYONE. You!