I found a paper wallet on a beach ... seriously

[easternklaas]

I know how this sounds,.. but I swear it's true... I saw and picked up what I thought was an odd looking piece of card in a dbl sealed plastic pocket whilst walking my dogs! The card inside was wet but legible and after drying it out I discovered it was a paper wallet (I have no idea about bitcoin or wallets aside from what I have discovered over last 24hrs,... which has led me here).
The paper wallet has 0.6 BTC. Some strange things have been known to wash up on this beach.  I suspect it was stolen and dumped by an ignorant burglar. It's there any way to identify from whom it came so I can return it? It seems pointless handing it into the police if they'll just destroy it....
I am in Victoria, Australia.
Thx

[1714691083]

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[Charles-Tim]

If you do not know the real owner, then you can not know the owner. The reason we should keep our private key or seed phrase safe in a safe location.

[easternklaas]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  This seems to be impossible in this instance... seems a shame to hand it in to police.. who are likely not educated enough to know what to do with it.  What would you do?

[n0nce]

I know how this sounds,.. but I swear it's true... I saw and picked up what I thought was an odd looking piece of card in a dbl sealed plastic pocket whilst walking my dogs! The card inside was wet but legible and after drying it out I discovered it was a paper wallet (I have no idea about bitcoin or wallets aside from what I have discovered over last 24hrs,... which has led me here).
The paper wallet has 0.6 BTC. Some strange things have been known to wash up on this beach.  I suspect it was stolen and dumped by an ignorant burglar. It's there any way to identify from whom it came so I can return it? It seems pointless handing it into the police if they'll just destroy it....
I am in Victoria, Australia.
Thx

If you want to sell the Bitcoin without problems with exchanges, use a P2P decentralized exchange such as https://bisq.network/.
I don't think it is stolen since online criminals would just cash out the Bitcoin they stole and not run around with a paper seed of the coins.

But since there's no way to know who they belong to, keep them for yourself and / or sell them. Just be aware that centralized exchanges can easily freeze your account and you will have no way of proving origin of funds. However if you sell it little by little on Bisq, you will be golden.

[Since you are new here: I am not affiliated with Bisq. I could actually rent my avatar, but at the moment I choose to rather just promote services that I use and like, such as Bisq and WalletScrutiny - especially since they're not for-profit companies and as far as I know both are also looking for some donations or contributions from the community. So I'm giving them some exposure here.]

[easternklaas]

Excellent! Thanks for your advice.
Cheers

[suchmoon]

But since there's no way to know who they belong to, keep them for yourself and / or sell them.

This sounds horribly unethical. The coins don't belong to the OP. The original owner might have a backup and might try to move the funds once they notice that their paper wallet is missing.

[DaveF]

Working it a bit backwards. Since you have the address that the BTC went to, you can see then address / addresses the BTC came from.

Most major exchanges have known wallet addresses. If that address was funded from one of them you might be able to contact them and they can contact the person who the funds were sent to. It's a long shot but you never know.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE but according to Wikipedia:

In Victoria, the Victorian Crimes Act[9] defines this crime by exception "72.3(c) A person's appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps.

If you can't trace the address and the police don't have a "paper wallet" listed as stolen or missing. Then it's probably yours. If you are worried you can always sit on the funds for a while before doing anything with them.

-Dave

[suchmoon]

NOT LEGAL ADVICE but according to Wikipedia:

In Victoria, the Victorian Crimes Act[9] defines this crime by exception "72.3(c) A person's appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps.

If you can't trace the address and the police don't have a "paper wallet" listed as stolen or missing. Then it's probably yours. If you are worried you can always sit on the funds for a while before doing anything with them.

I don't think this applies if the owner did not actually lose the property (e.g. in this case they might have backups of the wallet so the OP found only one of multiple copies). The OP can't possibly know that so they shouldn't touch the coins.

Also this could fall under some unauthorized access/hacking law. The OP found a code to access someone's money, but they know they're not authorized to access it. It's like finding a key to someone's house. I don't think that gives the finder the right to take whatever is in the house.

[easternklaas]

Thx Dave and suchmoon. As nice as some extra money would be nice, it isn't mine and I'd rather it goes back to the owner . Best case scenario the owner does indeed have a copy. Naive question,.. but is it possible with this wallet to identify when it was last transacted upon?
Been back to the beach this morning and nothing else here to help me identify the owner.
Might just sit on it for a bit and seek more feedback. Thanks again. I am very appreciative of your time and advice.

[suchmoon]

Thx Dave and suchmoon. As nice as some extra money would be nice, it isn't mine and I'd rather it goes back to the owner . Best case scenario the owner does indeed have a copy. Naive question,.. but is it possible with this wallet to identify when it was last transacted upon?
Been back to the beach this morning and nothing else here to help me identify the owner.
Might just sit on it for a bit and seek more feedback. Thanks again. I am very appreciative of your time and advice.

Check the Bitcoin address via blockchain explorer, e.g.:

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/

Put the address in the search box at the top and you should see the transaction history.

[DireWolfM14]

Thx Dave and suchmoon. As nice as some extra money would be nice, it isn't mine and I'd rather it goes back to the owner . Best case scenario the owner does indeed have a copy. Naive question,.. but is it possible with this wallet to identify when it was last transacted upon?
Been back to the beach this morning and nothing else here to help me identify the owner.
Might just sit on it for a bit and seek more feedback. Thanks again. I am very appreciative of your time and advice.

Check the Bitcoin address via blockchain explorer, e.g.:

https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/

Put the address in the search box at the top and you should see the transaction history.

Just to add to suchmoon's advice; he's talking about the public address, not private key.  Never share or post or upload that private key anywhere.  If you do, the coins will be compromised.

As for making a reasonable effort to find the rightful owner; as DaveF said, there are ways to trace the origin of the coins, or at least make the attempt.  If the coins originated from an exchange that records customer records they may be able to inform the owner that you have the private key.

If you need help with that there are members here who can assist.  I would suggest you stick around for a while, learn and figure out who you can trust to help.  Again; never share the private key with anyone, and it's probably best that you don't post the public address in public either.

[easternklaas]

Thank you

[Cricktor]

Never enter or expose the Private Key of the paper wallet publicly or online! You will likely get "interesting" private messages in this forum. Anyone who knows the Private Key can move the coins of the paper wallet.

The legitimate owner should be able to prove ownership by signing a Bitcoin message with the appropriate Private Key as long as (s)he has a copy of it. Otherwise you can't easily prove legit ownership. Some dudes might chime in and pretend it's theirs to claim the coins for themselves.

A paper wallet usually has a Private Key and a Public Address. To search for the owner you can try to find out via the transaction history of the paper wallet's Public Address. This requires some Blockchain analysis knowledge. But at places where there's KYC involved you won't get the owner's private details as usually this is disclosed only when official entities like police or jurisdiction is asking for it.

The least you can do as effort to find the owner in my opinion is to publish the Public Address only. The Private Key must stay offline, don't even take digital pictures of it with your smartphone or camera. Pay attention to use only safe QR code apps should there be QR code encoded data on this paper wallet.

If you're not familiar with Bitcoin what makes you think it's a Bitcoin paper wallet?

Bitcoin Private Key (all case-sensitive): starts with 5... for uncompressed key or K... or L... for compressed key, followed by a bunch of upper and lower case characters and numbers

Bitcoin Public Address: starts with 1..., 3... (both case-sensitive); bc1q... or (likely quite rare) bc1p... followed by a bunch of characters and numbers (bc1... are not case-sensitive and contain a "1" only in the prefix)

[pooya87]

The least you can do as effort to find the owner in my opinion is to publish the Public Address only.

This; but the problem is proving ownership. Anybody could claim they own the address and you'd have no way of knowing who is telling the truth. The only possible way is maybe if the real owner had the address that funded the paper wallet, which they could sign a message from that address. Other than that, I can't see any other solid proof.

[Cricktor]

Anybody could claim they own the address and you'd have no way of knowing who is telling the truth. The only possible way is maybe if the real owner had the address that funded the paper wallet, which they could sign a message from that address. Other than that, I can't see any other solid proof.

Anybody can claim as much as they like but can they prove it? IF the legit owner still has a copy of the Private Key of the paper wallet, only (s)he can verifiably prove ownership by signing a message with the particular Private Key of this paper wallet. I wrote that before already.

I have made Bitcoin paper wallets myself some years ago and still have a copy of the Private Keys in case the physical copy gets lost or destroyed. I see no point to destroy coins due to a lack of redundancy.

The owner of the Private Key of the address that funded the paper wallet, ie. the address from where coins were sent to the paper wallet address, must not necessarily be the owner of the paper wallet. She or he can be.

[pooya87]

IF the legit owner still has a copy of the Private Key of the paper wallet, (s)he can easily prove ownership by signing a message with the particular Private Key. I wrote that before already.

If they had the private key to that paper wallet they no longer need to prove ownership, they would just move the coins

The owner of the Private Key of the address that funded the paper wallet, ie. the address from where coins were sent to the paper wallet address, must not necessarily be the owner of the paper wallet. She or he can be.

That's right I didn't think of that, but at least there is a link that can be pursued to find the real owner.

[LoyceV]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  This seems to be impossible in this instance...

You can start by posting the address here, so Google indexes it and the owner might respond here. Be prepared to get messages from people claiming to be the owner, so they'd need to provide evidence. And that's the tricky part: even a signed message from the address that funded the wallet doesn't necessarily mean it's the owner (it could be the guy who sold the Bitcoins to the current owner).
Another way to get the owners attention could be by leaving small hints by sending dust to the address and in the same transaction sending dust to for instance those 2 addresses:
1PaperWaLLetFound1xxxxxxxxy1KHknm
1Topic54o8263onBitcointaLkxyvdAVg (Note: I used Proof of Burn to create those addresses. DO NOT send anything valuable to those addresses, it will be lost forever).
The owner will have to know his address, but if he knows it and the wallet was indeed stolen, it's not unlikely they'll check a block explorer to see if the funds were moved. When they do, they'll see the new transaction with hints.

it's probably best that you don't post the public address in public either.

I'm in doubt: there's a privacy concern, but it's not easternklaas's privacy, and I don't think he can claim he made "a reasonable attempt" at finding the owner without publishing the address.

IF the legit owner still has a copy of the Private Key of the paper wallet, (s)he can easily prove ownership by signing a message with the particular Private Key.

IF they still have the private key, they should just move the funds the moment they realize a copy is missing.

[DireWolfM14]

it's probably best that you don't post the public address in public either.

I'm in doubt: there's a privacy concern, but it's not easternklaas's privacy, and I don't think he can claim he made "a resonable attempt" at finding the owner without publishing the address.

That's a good point.  If I were in easternklaas' shoes I would consider posting the address in public as a last resort.  I like the idea of sending dust to the address and a "clue" address in one transaction, that's pretty darn clever.  With a tactic like that you may not have to post the public address, but if you've made the clue address known someone could figure it out.

[Cricktor]

And that's the tricky part: even a signed message from the address that funded the wallet doesn't necessarily mean it's the ownerr (it could be the guy who sold the Bitcoins to the current owner).

If you buy or get a paper wallet from someone you can't 100% trust for the lifetime of the paper wallet, you should move the coins off the paper wallet and create your own one as destination if you want to keep a paper wallet.

Another way to get the owners attention could be by leaving small hints by sending dust to the address and in the same transaction sending dust to for instance those 2 addresses:
1PaperWaLLetFound1xxxxxxxxy1KHknm
1Topic54o8263onBitcointaLkxyvdAVg (Note: I used Proof of Burn to create those addresses. DO NOT send anything valuable to those addresses, it will be lost forever).
The owner will have to know his address, but if he knows it and the wallet was indeed stolen, it's not unlikely they'll check a block explorer to see if the funds were moved. When they do, they'll see the new transaction with hints.

While easier to spot with such "burn addresses" unfortunately this bloats the UTXO set.
An OP_RETURN "Found lost or stolen paper wallet, see thread on bitcointalk.org" as transaction output at the proper place speaks for itself, but frankly isn't for newbies. Sorry, I don't want to derail this thread.

IF they still have the private key, they should just move the funds the moment they realize a copy is missing.

That should happen likely but would leave @easternklaas as apparently honest finder with empty pockets unless the legit owner shows some gratitude to the honest finder.

Hm, the privacy concerns sound strange to me (yes, I care about privacy) but the likely loss of a substantial amount of coins weights more in my opinion. The person you was reckless enough to loose the paper wallet shouldn't complain about his privacy, I guess.

[Lucius]

I agree with everyone who suggests that you should publicly post the address containing 0.6 BTC and thus not only try to attract the attention of the real owner, but also at least partially confirm your story.

@easternklaas, When I read your location, it occurred to me that a few months ago I read about floods in that part of Australia, so I wonder if it is possible that some of the floods actually caused that paper wallet to appear on the beach? I think that the flood hit some houses and thus took some things with it into the river that flows into the sea, which then threw that wallet onto the beach.

It's just a theory, of course, but somehow it seems more realistic to me than someone walking on the beach with a paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC, losing it and not trying to find it.

[DireWolfM14]

IF they still have the private key, they should just move the funds the moment they realize a copy is missing.

That should happen likely but would leave @easternklaas as apparently honest finder with empty pockets unless the legit owner shows some gratitude to the honest finder.

I find this line of thinking a bit odd.  If one goes about his life ethically, there shouldn't be any expectation of reward for doing the right thing.  Honesty and integrity are rewarding enough for those that value such attributes.  As honest as easternklaas has been, he's not entitled to anything, and it's comforting that he seems to realize that.

I like suchmoon's analogy: If you find a key to someone's house on the street, or along the same lines; a username and password for a bank account; that doesn't entitle you to any of their furniture or a portion of the funds in the account.  This is no different.

[Cricktor]

OK, ok, I might be spoiled from the last time I found something of value in the streets of my neighborhood. I made some effort to pass my contact information at the right place of the owner (I couldn't identify the owner without breaking rules). They called me, I verified it's the legit owner and negotiated how to give back what I found, mainly how we can identify each other. I didn't expect anything in that case, all went as I would've wished it myself if I were the one who had lost something.

The owner offered me a totally unexpected nice small present which I politely rejected, but they insisted and I didn't want to be rude to reject their gratitude. I guess, I'm spoiled now?

I get what you want to say and I'm with you.

[LoyceV]

And that's the tricky part: even a signed message from the address that funded the wallet doesn't necessarily mean it's the owner (it could be the guy who sold the Bitcoins to the current owner).

If you buy or get a paper wallet from someone you can't 100% trust for the lifetime of the paper wallet, you should move the coins off the paper wallet and create your own one as destination if you want to keep a paper wallet.

I meant the previous owner of the Bitcoins, who can sign a message from the sending address (before the coins reached the current paper wallet). I didn't mean the previous owner of the paper wallet to sign a message from the address on the paper wallet (that would make no sense).

An OP_RETURN "Found lost or stolen paper wallet, see thread on bitcointalk.org" as transaction output at the proper place speaks for itself, but frankly isn't for newbies.

Although technically better, it makes it less likely for the owner to read it. Hence the "vanity burn address" suggestion.

@easternklaas, When I read your location, it occurred to me that a few months ago I read about floods in that part of Australia, so I wonder if it is possible that some of the floods actually caused that paper wallet to appear on the beach?

This makes sense. And a good reason to use metal instead of paper for key storage.

[suchmoon]

This; but the problem is proving ownership. Anybody could claim they own the address and you'd have no way of knowing who is telling the truth. The only possible way is maybe if the real owner had the address that funded the paper wallet, which they could sign a message from that address. Other than that, I can't see any other solid proof.

I doesn't have to be cryptographically solid. Imagine if you find a physical wallet with cash in it and how would you hand it back to the owner. There is a way to provide enough convincing circumstantial evidence (brown wallet with a hole in the left pocket, six expired lottery tickets and a photo of my third husband). It's a bit more tricky with a paper wallet, especially if the address has been made public, but still could be possible (the way the paper wallet looks like, where exactly it was found, etc).

With a tactic like that you may not have to post the public address, but if you've made the clue address known someone could figure it out.

It doesn't really matter at that point - anybody can see the TX and all sorts of shitheads will try to scam all the same.

Considering the amount, I would put in significant effort into finding the owner without touching the blockchain or making the address public. Up to and including going to the police. Putting up posters where the wallet was found (without specific details, "a valuable laminated item was found"), local facebook groups, maybe newspapers if such a thing still exists, that sort of thing.

[bakasabo]

So easternklaas what you have decided to do with the wallet and funds? Have your decided already how to identify wallet owner, in case several people apply as owners?

We have sort of a IRL scam with lost wallets in our country. Example, you walk in shopping mall and see a guy drops his wallet and walks away. You pick it up, run to this guy, willing to return wallet to him. He says thanks to you and walks away, but in few minutes runs back and say there were more money in wallet than there is now, and call you a thief. Usually after his friends come by and try to "force" you to pay "missing" amount.

[n0nce]

But since there's no way to know who they belong to, keep them for yourself and / or sell them.

This sounds horribly unethical. The coins don't belong to the OP. The original owner might have a backup and might try to move the funds once they notice that their paper wallet is missing.

Technically, whoever owns the private keys, owns the coins.
I agree that it may be unethical to 'take' them if we assume whoever lost that seed has another copy and might notice.

I don't know the circumstances, e.g. if it looks like it is very old (so owner should have noticed by now) from the exterior, when the funded addresses were funded and details like that.
Maybe it would be sensible holding onto the seed and only 'taking' (spending / selling) the coins when some more time has passed.
Anything I describe though (spend / sell), will be better than either destroying the seed or giving it to the police.

Also, @easternklaas: keep in mind in this thread 'private key' has been used somewhat interchangeably with 'seed phrase' and 'paper wallet'. When they tell you not to give anyone your private key, it also means don't tell anyone the seed phrase you found in that paper wallet.

It's just a theory, of course, but somehow it seems more realistic to me than someone walking on the beach with a paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC, losing it and not trying to find it.

I do think it being washed up is the most likely scenario; nobody should randomly take their seed phrase to the beach.

[easternklaas]

@easternklaas, When I read your location, it occurred to me that a few months ago I read about floods in that part of Australia, so I wonder if it is possible that some of the floods actually caused that paper wallet to appear on the beach? I think that the flood hit some houses and thus took some things with it into the river that flows into the sea, which then threw that wallet onto the beach.

It's just a theory, of course, but somehow it seems more realistic to me than someone walking on the beach with a paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC, losing it and not trying to find it.

Entirely possible Lucius. The paper wallet was wet and had obviously been in the water.  The beach also receives lots of rubbish washed upon its shores and some interesting items have been found over the years. An ATM was recently recovered on the shoreline... In my opinion, the most likely scenario.. knowing the motivation of local riff raff, is that it came from some poor souls wallet or home and was deemed neither cash nor drugs. The crims around here are not terribly bright and wouldn't know what it was.

So easternklaas what you have decided to do with the wallet and funds? Have your decided already how to identify wallet owner, in case several people apply as owners?

I haven't decided as yet bakasabo. I will take advice from this thread and have a good crack at finding the owner. If this fails,.. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. It does pose an interesting moral dilemma doesn't it. If I found a rubbish bag with $20k cash in it,.. dare I say it, I am not entirely sure I'd be so active to find the owner.

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

If you're not familiar with Bitcoin what makes you think it's a Bitcoin paper wallet?

Fair question Cricktor.. When I first saw it, I thought it was a folded up checque. Removing it carefully from its plastic pockets, it was stuck together, so I carefully prised it apart and sat it on my windscreen demister on the car trip home. It dried out pretty quickly. It was folded in an unusual manner and stapled to conceal a  QR code and another code. There is faint remnants of a bitcoin logo on it and the words 'paper wallet' and the name of the website from which it came printed down the right hand side. A quick google and I was holding what the search engine image results identified as a 'paper wallet'. From there, I did a crash course in paper wallets, and figured out how to identify the balance of the wallet,.. kept researching and found this bitcointalk.org site.

[LoyceV]

There is faint remnants of a bitcoin logo on it and the words 'paper wallet' and the name of the website from which it came printed down the right hand side.

Chances are this website should NOT be trusted (anymore). Many once trusted paper wallet generators turned into a scam later on, by creating pre-determined instead of random private keys.

[witcher_sense]

Question to the OP: what makes you think that the private key printed on a piece of paper actually corresponds to the address printed next to it? The well-known motto in the bitcoin community states that you shouldn't blindly trust everything you see but verify it for yourself. Have you tried to verify that the private key is real and that you haven't been pranked or tricked into believing that you magically became richer overnight? One of the ways to check the genuineness of a private key is to try to spend coins from the address (transfer them to the wallet you control). Alternatively, if you don't want to get in trouble because of someone accusing you of stealing someone else's property, you can simply sign a message with a paper wallet's address and private key. This way, you will verify that the paper wallet is real and that you're not wasting your time trying to find the owner.

Technically, whoever owns the private keys, owns the coins.

What do you mean by "owning"? How do you claim ownership over random numbers? Don't they belong to the nature of things or the universe we live in? Technically, that you generated some random number doesn't automatically make you a rightful owner of this number but rather its discoverer.

[LoyceV]

Have you tried to verify that the private key is real and that you haven't been pranked or tricked into believing that you magically became richer overnight?

That's evil, lol Even better it's BIP38 encrypted, someone will be searching for a very long time.

One of the ways to check the genuineness of a private key is to try to spend coins from the address (transfer them to the wallet you control). Alternatively, if you don't want to get in trouble because of someone accusing you of stealing someone else's property, you can simply sign a message with a paper wallet's address and private key. This way, you will verify that the paper wallet is real and that you're not wasting your time trying to find the owner.

No need to sign a message, all you need to do is check if the private key generates the same address. To be safe from malware, you should do this offline, for instance using an offline Tails DVD to run Electrum.

[easternklaas]

Question to the OP: what makes you think that the private key printed on a piece of paper actually corresponds to the address printed next to it? The well-known motto in the bitcoin community states that you shouldn't blindly trust everything you see but verify it for yourself. Have you tried to verify that the private key is real and that you haven't been pranked or tricked into believing that you magically became richer overnight? One of the ways to check the genuineness of a private key is to try to spend coins from the address (transfer them to the wallet you control). Alternatively, if you don't want to get in trouble because of someone accusing you of stealing someone else's property, you can simply sign a message with a paper wallet's address and private key. This way, you will verify that the paper wallet is real and that you're not wasting your time trying to find the owner.

Good question... tbh I knew nothing about what I found on the beach and now know only a fraction more. I am a firm believer of the adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.. so in not going to be super bummed if I'm just the victim of a prank or attempted scam.  I'm learning loads here and am grateful for all your input. If it turns out to be a real paper wallet,.. with real coin... great... I'll try doing what i can to find the owner.. if I've simply found someone's attempt at humour... sounds a little odd ..but ok... ya got me!! Maybe I'm wasting all your time by chasing a rediculous red herring... I don't know.. apologies if so. Maybe I shld try sweeping (.. a new word I've learnt) the coin into another account to see if it's legit.... but is that like trying the key I found in a front door even though I know full well it's not my house?

 

[easternklaas]

Question to the OP: what makes you think that the private key printed on a piece of paper actually corresponds to the address printed next to it?.

Sorry witcher_sense ... I did answer the question.. but my response was removed by mods? In short,.. I don't know.. which is why I'm here.. for advice

[LoyceV]

Maybe I shld try sweeping (.. a new word I've learnt) the coin into another account to see if it's legit.... but is that like trying the key I found in a front door even though I know full well it's not my house?

Sweeping is like replacing the lock for your own lock. It also puts the burden of securing the funds on you: your computer should be free of malware, and you shouldn't lose access to the new address. And like I said: you should probably not trust the website that was used to create this paper wallet anymore, so you can't just make a similar paper wallet (there's more to it than going to a website and clicking print).

Sorry witcher_sense ... I did answer the question.. but my response was removed by mods?

See:

32. Posting multiple posts in a row (excluding bumps and reserved posts by the thread starter) is not allowed.

You should edit your post (just like I did now) instead of making a new post if you were the last one posting in a topic.

[NotATether]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  This seems to be impossible in this instance... seems a shame to hand it in to police.. who are likely not educated enough to know what to do with it.  What would you do?

Australia is making a lot of crazy laws about crypto in recent years to ban exchanges from providing "privacy coins" e.g. ZCash, monero, so I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of them.

I wouldn't hand it over to the cops, some insider might just swipe the balance from the real owner.

Perhaps you can send a small amount (e.g. $5) to the address corresponding to that private key, and then transfer it out back to the source address to alert the real owner that their paper wallet has been found!

Or make an OP_RETURN transaction with a thousand satoshis or so, that says: "This paper wallet has been found on a beach. If you own this private key, get your coins out immediately!" It can be viewed on such block explorers as Blockstream, that decode the OP_RETURN data.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Maybe I shld try sweeping (.. a new word I've learnt) the coin into another account to see if it's legit....

I wouldn't. In doing so you remove the ability of the real owner of the funds to move the funds themselves once they realize what has happened, assuming of course they have another back up of their wallet somewhere they can access. Given that this is probably going to be the most likely scenario in which the real owner is reunited with their money, then by sweeping the coins you make it significantly less likely they will ever get them back.

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

For starters, I would stop saying any more about what the wallet looks like, where you found it, how it was protected, etc. If the real owner finds this thread, then you need some way of confirming it is them, and that will probably be done by them describing in detail what the wallet looked like and the circumstances in which it was found. If you give away all the details, then it becomes too easy for someone to fake that information.

Secondly, I would verify the private key does indeed lead to the address on the wallet. I would do this on an airgapped computer as mentioned above by Loyce. I would never enter the private key on an internet connected computer due to the risk of theft.

Thirdly, I would make up a back up of the wallet. If it is already damaged as you say, then I wouldn't want to risk being responsible for damaging it further beyond recovery, especially if it is the only way for someone to access their life savings.

Fourthly, I would poke around in the history of the transaction which funded the wallet to see if I could find anything useful which might link the wallet to a person or centralized exchange.

Lastly, I would post the public address here to increase the chance of the owner finding it.

[m2017]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  This seems to be impossible in this instance...

You can start by posting the address here, so Google indexes it and the owner might respond here.

Do you remember each of your bitcoin addresses down to the last digit? We are talking about those addresses that you rarely use or don't use at all, according to example a paper wallet. It seems to me that it would be more efficient to take a photo of the card from paper wallet, of course, painting over all the text. So at least there will be a chance that the owner will recognize his paper, card or or some other sign if he sees this topic. But I can’t immediately figure out how the owner will confirm his right to this 0.6 BTC if he has neither backups nor access to any information that allows him to confirm.

I think it would be more ethical to wait a while and not touch these bitcoin, giving the owner a chance to return them.

[LoyceV]

Do you remember each of your bitcoin addresses down to the last digit?

No, but I know enough to find back at least some of my addresses.

It seems to me that it would be more efficient to take a photo of the card from paper wallet

There are only a few types of paper wallet that have been used a lot. I can already take a guess: about 10 cm long, 5 cm high, yellow flowing into orange, green on the edge and green/yellow/orange at the back. This is the default paper wallet created by a website that will scam you now.

So at least there will be a chance that the owner will recognize his paper, card or or some other sign if he sees this topic.

They all look the same

But I can’t immediately figure out how the owner will confirm his right to this 0.6 BTC if he has neither backups nor access to any information that allows him to confirm.

Be creative: "Before laminating it, I wrote the current date in blue ink on the paper. I can verify the handwriting is mine."
By posting an image, you make it easier for scammers to describe the paper wallet.

[Cricktor]

There is faint remnants of a bitcoin logo on it and the words 'paper wallet' and the name of the website from which it came printed down the right hand side.

Chances are this website should NOT be trusted (anymore). Many once trusted paper wallet generators turned into a scam later on, by creating pre-determined instead of random private keys.

If it is bitcoinpaperwallet(dot)com it depends when the paper wallet was created. This site used and still uses a clever folding scheme for their paper wallet print templates.

After the original creator Canton Becker of this website sold it approx. by the end of 2018, the new owner(s) now scam you. Any paper wallet created on this current scam website uses predeterministic private keys known to the website owner even when the site pretends that you generate some sort of entropy (you don't!). Any more or less decent amount of coins will vanish from recently created paper wallets from this scam website! DO NOT USE IT, if that's not yet clear enough!

@easternklaas: you should check if the public address of the paper wallet which should also be printed on the paper wallet does still hold any coins. If it doesn't there's not much left to discuss here, except for the interesting ethical topic. As block explorers I recommend mempool.space or bitcoinexplorer.org, but others like btc.bitaps.com or blockchair.com are OK, too.

Not entirely sure if you did that already...

... From there, I did a crash course in paper wallets, and figured out how to identify the balance of the wallet,..

BTW, nice to see that you do your own research.

Secondly, I would verify the private key does indeed lead to the address on the wallet. I would do this on an airgapped computer as mentioned above by Loyce. I would never enter the private key on an internet connected computer due to the risk of theft.

Airgapped is not enough, it should stay airgapped forever until erased. Use TAILS in offline-mode as it forgets any data, unless you use persistant storage. An offline copy of bitaddress.org script in TAILS should be OK to check everything needed (use Walletdetails on that page, works offline).

Thirdly, I would make up a back up of the wallet. If it is already damaged as you say, then I wouldn't want to risk being responsible for damaging it further beyond recovery, especially if it is the only way for someone to access their life savings.
...
Lastly, I would post the public address here to increase the chance of the owner finding it.

A safe usually digital copy is not an easy task. Smartphones are not appropriate for this. If the paper wallet is still readable why bother. If you can't 100% trust any device used for the copy process, you put the paper wallet to risk of theft by others.

Yep, I would post the public address, too.

So at least there will be a chance that the owner will recognize his paper, card or or some other sign if he sees this topic.

They all look the same

But I can’t immediately figure out how the owner will confirm his right to this 0.6 BTC if he has neither backups nor access to any information that allows him to confirm.

Be creative: "Before laminating it, I wrote the current date in blue ink on the paper. I can verify the handwriting is mine."
By posting an image, you make it easier for scammers to describe the paper wallet.

Indeed, it's not uncommon there's some handwriting on the paper wallet, hopefully it wasn't with water soluble ink and some or all of it is still preserved and visible.

@easternklaas should not post any physical details of this paper wallet anymore for that reason as already said by others.

[n0nce]

Good question... tbh I knew nothing about what I found on the beach and now know only a fraction more. I am a firm believer of the adage that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.. so in not going to be super bummed if I'm just the victim of a prank or attempted scam.  I'm learning loads here and am grateful for all your input. If it turns out to be a real paper wallet,.. with real coin... great... I'll try doing what i can to find the owner.. if I've simply found someone's attempt at humour... sounds a little odd ..but ok... ya got me!! Maybe I'm wasting all your time by chasing a rediculous red herring... I don't know.. apologies if so. Maybe I shld try sweeping (.. a new word I've learnt) the coin into another account to see if it's legit.... but is that like trying the key I found in a front door even though I know full well it's not my house?

In order to check the 'balance' of this paper wallet; no matter whether it's a 24- or 12-word seed phrase or a single private key with a public key next to it, you can check it in a secure way using Tails OS.
If I was you, I'd boot a computer using a Tails live USB stick, import the seed or private key (whatever it is) into the preinstalled Electrum wallet and get its actual addresses.

In case of a seed phrase, it can deterministically generate private keys and derive public keys or addresses from those. In that case, generate like 100 of them and write them down.
If it's just a single-key paper wallet with just one private key, it's easier since there will be just one address (actually 3; one of each address type).

Then shut it down, boot into your regular, internet-enabled OS, install Tor Browser, visit a blockchain explorer of your choice and enter those addresses you noted down.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Lastly, I would post the public address here to increase the chance of the owner finding it.

To further increase the chances of owner noticing the thread, I'd spend the output to the same address with a proper OP_RETURN note saying:

Code:

Hey, read: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408263

It'd come as an instant notification to their wallet whenever they decided to open it. If they have a backup, they will immediately send the funds back to one of their wallets. If they don't, they'll try to convince they're those who owned it.

However, if there isn't sufficient evidence, such as a writing style or possible lack of color, which are things you haven't revealed to us (and should not!), the real owner won't be able to convince you. If I were you, after all, I'd keep it in the same way I'd keep cash found on the street.

[dkbit98]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  This seems to be impossible in this instance... seems a shame to hand it in to police.. who are likely not educated enough to know what to do with it.  What would you do?

First time I heard of term theft by finding, and it's not like you find some identification documents or picture of a person, but I guess you could put an ad and say you found a plastic card with words and you are looking for original owner.
If someone calls you back, they should identify at least five or ten words from this cards in reasonable amount of time, without looking at card image, but don't go in any meetings alone.
Don't mention anything about Bitcoin, or you will get a bunch of fake owners and scammers calling you.

This sounds horribly unethical. The coins don't belong to the OP. The original owner might have a backup and might try to move the funds once they notice that their paper wallet is missing.

Let's say few weeks and months pass and nothing happens.
Would you simply burn the words, give it to police, or maybe give it to some poor people?
There is always possible scenario of someone finding private keys of satoshi coins, any many other keys for inactive coins could be find by other people, so I don't see any difference with lost coins.
Lost keys = Lost keys.

[suchmoon]

This sounds horribly unethical. The coins don't belong to the OP. The original owner might have a backup and might try to move the funds once they notice that their paper wallet is missing.

Let's say few weeks and months pass and nothing happens.
Would you simply burn the words, give it to police, or maybe give it to some poor people?
There is always possible scenario of someone finding private keys of satoshi coins, any many other keys for inactive coins could be find by other people, so I don't see any difference with lost coins.
Lost keys = Lost keys.

The point is that we don't know for sure if the original owner lost the keys completely or just one copy thereof. It's not like physical cash, which if unclaimed can be reasonably assumed to be lost after a certain period of time.

For example the original owner may not be aware that one copy of their key is missing, or may think that it was destroyed. Sloppy, yes, but they might still be hodling another copy of the key thinking to cash out when Bitcoin hits $1m. So I don't think there is any time limit as to when this wallet can be assumed to be lost.

[easternklaas]

You should edit your post (just like I did now) instead of making a new post if you were the last one posting in a topic.

Gotcha. Thx LoyceV

Or make an OP_RETURN transaction with a thousand satoshis or so, that says: "This paper wallet has been found on a beach. If you own this private key, get your coins out immediately!" It can be viewed on such block explorers as Blockstream, that decode the OP_RETURN data.

I'm leaning toward this idea, thx NotATether

I think it would be more ethical to wait a while and not touch these bitcoin, giving the owner a chance to return them.

m2017 I agree,.. I will give it until the end of the month

Let's say few weeks and months pass and nothing happens.
Would you simply burn the words, give it to police, or maybe give it to some poor people?
There is always possible scenario of someone finding private keys of satoshi coins, any many other keys for inactive coins could be find by other people, so I don't see any difference with lost coins.

Should I be unable to locate the original owner after having exhausted all efforts to do so, within my capabilities....
* I don't know/trust anyone in my friend circle who can assist in such endeavor's, nor would I be confident enough undertaking many of the processes identified by the knowledgeable folk here who have offered their advice.

Wouldn't burn it or give to the police. Give it to some poor people? I have a number of charities that I know could use the coin better than I would.  My main concern would be how to monetise the btc without having to give 30% to the tax man.


Mod note: Merged posts, cleaned up quoting

[Cricktor]

As far as I remember eg. in my country you don't inherit ownership of something that you found. You are obliged to make it at least possible for the legit owner to get his stuff back, e.g. bring it to the police or lost and found offices. At those lost and found offices you can get your finding registered and if no legit owner collects his stuff after a year of waiting time you can claim it and become a legit owner of your finding. If you find money or stuff of value you can claim a certain percentage of the value even if the legit owner shows up. But I don't know the specific terms and rules for that. I guess it's kind of an incentive for finders to comply and bring lost stuff into the lost and found offices.

That's at least what more or less is expressed in law. Of course people can choose not to oblige. As long as there's no witness or officials or judge, there's not much that can or will happen if you don't comply.
You collect bad karma... You decide if you go to the dark side or the light side of life. Remember your choice when you have lost something yourself which you'd like to get back.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Airgapped is not enough, it should stay airgapped forever until erased.

I should have been more clear.: When I use the word airgapped, without exception I mean permanently airgapped. A computer without an internet connection temporarily is not airgapped.

A safe usually digital copy is not an easy task.

I wouldn't make a digital copy. I'd simply copy the private key to a second piece of paper in case something happens to the original.

Should I be unable to locate the original owner after having exhausted all efforts to do so, within my capabilities....

In that case, I would do nothing. As suchmoon says, the real owner might try to move the coins at any point between now and decades in to the future. You cannot assume the coins are lost just because that paper wallet goes unclaimed.

[easternklaas]

In that case, I would do nothing. As suchmoon says, the real owner might try to move the coins at any point between now and decades in to the future. You cannot assume the coins are lost just because that paper wallet goes unclaimed.

Didn't really think about that.. might be a cool souvenir and a cool story to tell my grandkids ... of the day I found something that sparked an educational sojourn down a rabbit hole I've not been down before,... to be rediscovered in my old age......

... or do I tell them a different story?

[Cricktor]

I should have been more clear.: When I use the word airgapped, without exception I mean permanently airgapped. A computer without an internet connection temporarily is not airgapped.

OK, I understand that, but it's not common for probably the majority of people to dedicate a computer to be permanently offline. A TAILS boot media is safe and trustworthy enough for me for such a task and more practical. YMMV...

I wouldn't make a digital copy. I'd simply copy the private key to a second piece of paper in case something happens to the original.

OK, while doable, manual handwriting to copy such data is quite error prone. You'd have to verify very thoroughly no error has been introduced in the manual copy. As I think about it, I likely would copy it by hand, too.

Didn't really think about that.. might be a cool souvenir and a cool story to tell my grandkids ... of the day I found something that sparked an educational sojourn down a rabbit hole I've not been down before,... to be rediscovered in my old age......

... or do I tell them a different story?

There's no easy answer to your dilemma and there's a lot to debate. A Private Key gives you technically the ability to move the coins that are "controlled" by that particular Private Key. Does this automatically grant you ownership of those coins. I doubt that. Think of the analogy if you find a key of a foreign house. I believe the majority of legal systems won't allow you to use the key to legally enter the house and take possession of values therein.
You have almost no verifiable way to determine if the legit owner of the paper wallet is still in possession of the Private Key that you found, except if he or someone else who has a copy of the Private Key moves the coins or signs a message with the Private Key (the latter is possible but wouldn't make much sense in this context). If I were the legit owner of the paper wallet, I would move the coins immediatelly should I discover that I lost the paper wallet or someone else has it, as long as I can do it.

If I were you and with the mindset of an honest finder, I would do the following (I am in the comfortable position to have enough Bitcoin knowledge to do all by myself):

• Publish the Public Address of the paper wallet at places like here, no further details that might be suitable to identify a legit owner of it; pay attention not to expose details to compromise your identity
• Make a verifiably correct manual copy of the Private Key to prevent degradation of the original paper wallet (store safely!)
• Make a transaction of the paper wallet's coins to the same Public Address of the paper wallet and add an output to the transaction like this:
  OP_RETURN "See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408263.40"
  (A move by someone else, not by the owner, should alarm the legit owner enough if he cares to look for it. But it's no guarantee to trigger the owner to check in a reasonable time frame.)
• HODL... and save a story for my children or grandchildren, it will be a good one, anyway how the outcome will be!
• If I've done necessary steps to comply with rules for a finder and those rules grant me partly or in total ownership of my finding should no legit owner show up usually within some defined time frame governed by law, I would claim the coins after enough time has passed.
  (I wouldn't hand over the Private Key to others as they could steal the coins should they be corrupt, not honest, underpaid, whatever the dark side offers for them. My faith in officials is partly deteriorated...
• You do you!

Yeah, I know, that sounds too good to be true. Don't tempt me, haha. As we hope for rising Bitcoin exchange rates, there'll be enough temptations in the future... stay humble!

[Pmalek]

You could try creating ads about having found a paper wallet on social media and maybe some online communities that are popular in Victoria, Australia. I assume that many cities have online communities where you can find local news, events happening in your community, local sales threads, ads for local businesses, and things like that. I know several such places where I live and it's not uncommon for people to post they found a wallet, a pair of sunglasses, ID cards, credit cards, and many other physical items. If you are lucky, the person who lost it could be browsing the same sites.   

[n0nce]

* I don't know/trust anyone in my friend circle who can assist in such endeavor's, nor would I be confident enough undertaking many of the processes identified by the knowledgeable folk here who have offered their advice.

You can always ask for more information or more detailed instructions (after first web-searching the matter - let me sneak in a recommendation not to use Google, since it gives you more scam, spam and sponsored results than privacy-oriented search engines).
This (sub-)board especially, is full of knowledgeable people who would most definitely be held accountable for giving you misleading or even malicious instructions. Do keep in mind to keep as much as possible about this topic in this thread and not moving stuff to DMs; that's where things can go sketchy due to them simply not being transparent.

Wouldn't burn it or give to the police. Give it to some poor people? I have a number of charities that I know could use the coin better than I would.  My main concern would be how to monetise the btc without having to give 30% to the tax man.

If you really want to give to charities (but do your research and ask here if in doubt); a bunch of them accept Bitcoin donations by now. That way there would be no need to cash out and potentially pay taxes on it out of your pocket.

But as others said before, there's not really any rush to spend those coins. You can do a few copies of it just to be safe, and keep them for years.

I wouldn't make a digital copy. I'd simply copy the private key to a second piece of paper in case something happens to the original.

OK, while doable, manual handwriting to copy such data is quite error prone. You'd have to verify very thoroughly no error has been introduced in the manual copy. As I think about it, I likely would copy it by hand, too.

Honestly, it's not as unreliable as you may think.

I remember this thread by Loyce:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363240

[NeuroticFish]

The point is that we don't know for sure if the original owner lost the keys completely or just one copy thereof. It's not like physical cash, which if unclaimed can be reasonably assumed to be lost after a certain period of time.

+1
If OP can properly set up a cold storage (maybe with Tails?) it would be much better to move the coins to a new address, so the owner has a better chance to notice something is wrong.
And after some more months, if no "proper owner" emerges (who can sign a new message, we all know the drill), the OP can see what he will do, even donate those bitcoins.

[o_e_l_e_o]

If OP can properly set up a cold storage (maybe with Tails?) it would be much better to move the coins to a new address, so the owner has a better chance to notice something is wrong.

Disagree. By far the most likely way that these coins will be recovered is simply by the owner realizing their paper wallet is missing and accessing a different back up to move the coins. If you move them to a new address, then you completely prevent this from happening.

If you want to move the coins so the owner notices something is wrong, then sending them back to the same address is the best option. Add in an OP_RETURN output as mentioned above if you feel life it.

If easternklaas is unsure about how to do that, then he can simply share the address here and someone else can create the necessary transaction (send all coins back to the same address and add an OP_RETURN output which directs to this thread) which would just require him to sign and broadcast.

[Agbe]

...(I have no idea about bitcoin or wallets aside from what I have discovered over last 24hrs,... which has led me here).

The paper wallet has 0.6 BTC.

OP frankly speaking, your story is technical and confusing me. You said, you did not know or have no idea on bitcoin or Wallet but from your discovery of the paper wallet, you noticed that it contained 0.6 BTC which you confirmed that it is bitcoin from the first sight, as for only that statement indicate that you have an idea on BTC because someone that does not know BTC would recognized it unless he or she asked someone that knows Cryptocurrencies or if you don't Know it, you would have left it behind as other passerbys did. But you were fully aware that it was BTC that is why you picked it.
That is not withstanding, there is no way you can see the owner of the wallet. Because probably the owner had been looking for it all this while but no avail. And the only way the owner of the wallet can found it is for you to go the local Radio Station and make the announcement for the lost wallet. And I don't think you have money to pay the media unless the media will not take money from you. Since you have brought it here, I advise you to do that. I do not think, the wallet was stolen but was lost from the owner.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner. 

Wow, that's one hell of a law--in a silly, brainless way I mean.  I'm not dissing Australia, mind you, because there are just too many laws worldwide and way too many that don't make sense.

What's been said is true.  Nobody could verify ownership unless they produced an identical seed word list/private key without first seeing yours, and if they knew what they were doing they would have already imported that key into a wallet and transferred the funds, thereby making the paper wallet you found useless.

I've read the suggestions about trying to return the funds and find the owner of the wallet...but personally I wouldn't even bother.  You'd be opening yourself up to all kinds of security risks and hassles from who knows how many people.  IMO it'd be better to just quietly move those coins to your own wallet (after learning a little more about bitcoin).

I doubt the cops would ever find out if you just used the funds on the wallet you found.  In crypto, it's basically finders-keepers in situations like this.  But man, I do admire your honesty!

[NeuroticFish]

If OP can properly set up a cold storage (maybe with Tails?) it would be much better to move the coins to a new address, so the owner has a better chance to notice something is wrong.

Disagree. By far the most likely way that these coins will be recovered is simply by the owner realizing their paper wallet is missing and accessing a different back up to move the coins. If you move them to a new address, then you completely prevent this from happening.

If you want to move the coins so the owner notices something is wrong, then sending them back to the same address is the best option. Add in an OP_RETURN output as mentioned above if you feel life it.

I think that you are overly confident in others' knowledge. The transaction to itself is a clever solution, I won't deny that, but I do expect some will only notice something is wrong if their funds are missing.
On the other hand, I also expect most people don't keep duplicates of the paper wallet, maybe not even duplicate of the address for watching its content online. The truth is that the chances of finding the real owner are not great.

[LoyceMobile]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  

Wow, that's one hell of a law--in a silly, brainless way I mean.  I'm not dissing Australia, mind you, because there are just too many laws worldwide and way too many that don't make sense.

We have similar laws: it just means that when you find something, it's not automatically yours. I think there's a 1 year time limit here for the owner to show up.

[Porfirii]

Law in Australia suggests I can be charged with 'theft by finding' if I don't make a reasonable attempt to identify the owner.  

Wow, that's one hell of a law--in a silly, brainless way I mean.  I'm not dissing Australia, mind you, because there are just too many laws worldwide and way too many that don't make sense.

In Spain you should give it to the Mayor of the city where you found the paper wallet and, after two years, if nobody claims it, it would be returned to you so it would be yours. In the case you don't do it, it would suppose a crime of "misappropriation". (This figure is 133 years old )

There is also the figure of "theft by finding" in Spain, but they are different: "misappropriation" means that you don't give the found object back, while "theft by finding" means that you materially displace the found object from the owner's domain to the domain of the appropriator. To be charged with "theft by finding", you should move the Bitcoins to a different wallet whose keys you own; at least in my country it works that way, and maybe there too. So check the law or hire a lawyer to advise you before taking the advise of another member with no legal experience.

[dkbit98]

The point is that we don't know for sure if the original owner lost the keys completely or just one copy thereof. It's not like physical cash, which if unclaimed can be reasonably assumed to be lost after a certain period of time.

I don't know what you would do in case you lost your seed words, but I sure won't carry them with me in my pocket or wallet everywhere I go.
Even if I somehow I lose them I would notice this and use backup option to recover and send my coins to wallet I control, but I would do this the same day or few days after.
It's not like I would wait weeks or months to recover my coins, and it's always possible he never created any additional backup, that is expected from someone who carries seed words with them.

My main concern would be how to monetise the btc without having to give 30% to the tax man.

Government parasites can't charge you any tax for something they don't know you (temporary) own... just sayin, I am not your tax advisor.

We have similar laws: it just means that when you find something, it's not automatically yours. I think there's a 1 year time limit here for the owner to show up.

I think many of the laws are not working in real life, especially stuff coming out recently.
I mean they are trying to legalize taking away land from farmers, and if that is not some new communism I don't know what is, all done legaly.
Pay taxes, obey the law, and don't think with your head... government is taking ''care'' of you.

[n0nce]

I think that you are overly confident in others' knowledge. The transaction to itself is a clever solution, I won't deny that, but I do expect some will only notice something is wrong if their funds are missing.
On the other hand, I also expect most people don't keep duplicates of the paper wallet, maybe not even duplicate of the address for watching its content online. The truth is that the chances of finding the real owner are not great.

I think it depends a lot on whether this is a seed phrase backup or a offline paper wallet.
In the former case, the user would absolutely notice the 2 transactions when opening their wallet application for the next time.
In the latter - unless they've set up a watch-only wallet - probably would not notice until far in the future.

Since easternklaas said the following, I'm not sure whether it's been 100% clarified if this is seed phrase backup of potentially someone's hot wallet, or the potentially only copy of a paper wallet.

I have no idea about bitcoin or wallets aside from what I have discovered over last 24hrs,... which has led me here.

I do partly share Agbe's suspiciousness of easternklaas' story, to be fully honest.

You said, you did not know or have no idea on bitcoin or Wallet but from your discovery of the paper wallet, you noticed that it contained 0.6 BTC which you confirmed that it is bitcoin from the first sight.

On the other hand, it is plausible that where he lives, a lot of stuff is washed up and easternklaas enjoys picking up whatever interesting things are left in the sand.

I saw and picked up what I thought was an odd looking piece of card in a dbl sealed plastic pocket whilst walking my dogs!

[easternklaas]

I do partly share Agbe's suspiciousness of easternklaas' story, to be fully honest.

You said, you did not know or have no idea on bitcoin or Wallet but from your discovery of the paper wallet, you noticed that it contained 0.6 BTC which you confirmed that it is bitcoin from the first sight.

On the other hand, it is plausible that where he lives, a lot of stuff is washed up and easternklaas enjoys picking up whatever interesting things are left in the sand.

]

Sorry,.. I maybe overstated my naivety.. I had heard of bitcoin & have a basic understanding of what coins are and how they work. I've never owned any or have ever cared to tbh. I didn't instantly recognise it as anything more than what I thought was a neatly folded cheque in a plastic pocket amongst the washed up  Only upon drying the card was I rlly able to identify the btc logo.

There's soo much rubbish blown onto this beach. Beachcombing passes the time whilst the dogs chase birds and roll in the remains of dead fish. I also came home with 2 x rubber dog balls and a funky piece of driftwood.

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work? I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

[The Sceptical Chymist]

We have similar laws: it just means that when you find something, it's not automatically yours. I think there's a 1 year time limit here for the owner to show up.

In Spain you should give it to the Mayor of the city where you found the paper wallet and, after two years, if nobody claims it, it would be returned to you so it would be yours. In the case you don't do it, it would suppose a crime of "misappropriation". (This figure is 133 years old )

....like I said, too many laws, too much restriction of freedom, too much government involvement.  Somehow when someone loses something and another person finds it, the government has laws in place that mandate their meddling (for lack of a better word).  I'm not an anarchist by any means, but if we're talking about someone finding something like a seed phrase where it's pretty damn hard to prove ownership of and puts the finder at risk of some potentially very unwanted publicity, I say the law conflicts with what is right.

Just my opinion, though.  Hey OP, perhaps keep us updated if you pursue the find-the-rightful-owner route?  I'd understand if you went immediately silent, however. *that's what I'd do*

[o_e_l_e_o]

IMO it'd be better to just quietly move those coins to your own wallet (after learning a little more about bitcoin).

I doubt the cops would ever find out if you just used the funds on the wallet you found.  In crypto, it's basically finders-keepers in situations like this.

What? No. Finders keepers? So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you? Sure, OP is highly unlikely to get caught, but that hardly makes it morally OK.

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work? I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

All you need is the address (which one of the presumably two QR codes will be encoding) and you can look that address up on any public block explorer website* to see the balance. Every transaction on bitcoin is public and can be viewed by anyone. All you need to know is the relevant address.

Make sure you do not enter the private key in to an electronic device or scan its QR code, as doing so risks the funds being stolen.

*Examples:
https://mempool.space/
https://blockchair.com/

[Charles-Tim]

What? No. Finders keepers? So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you? Sure, OP is highly unlikely to get caught, but that hardly makes it morally OK.

I think this is not the same as hardware wallet. If it is hardware wallet, the seed phrase is still secure and safe than to be compromised, unlike a private key that that is written on a paoer or card or where it was easily found written, I can assume it to be like that. If it is a hardware wallet, I can report it to the appropriate governmental organization for appropriate action to look for the right owner, but if it is a paper wallet that everyone can see the private key easily written just on paper, I can think otherwise, especially in the kind of country I am that I know everyone are ready to scam you, including the government officials. I may just leave the coin there for years, later just move just like 1/10 of the coins and so on, I can do that for like 10 years. If no one moved the coin after so many years, then the coins are mine.

But if the remaining coin is moved to just one address, I will think the owner of the coin has known that his paper wallet has been compromised and moved the coin to another wallet. I can send worth of 9/10 of the total coin to the address the remaining coin was sent to and I will have 1/10. Just my opinion.

[Pmalek]

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work?

It seems that you scanned and opened the address that hold the bitcoins on a blockchain explorer. It can be any of them. Here is an example of what info about a random BTC address you can find on Mempool.space for example. As you can see, there are 3 fields at the top: total received, total sent, and the final balance. Did you see similar data on your end as well? Does the address still contain the coins or did it only have a history of received bitcoin but a 0 final balance?  

I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

Nothing else is needed to look up the balance of an address. It's a bit different when you want to spend the coins. For that you need a private key or the seed.

[BlackHatCoiner]

So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you?

If I found an object on the street that isn't mine, and whose ownership cannot be proven, I'd find it morally okay to keep it. For example, cash. A mobile or hardware wallet isn't good analogy, because the owner can very well prove it's theirs. A paper wallet, if not written in a special way, is the same as cash.

I think this is not the same as hardware wallet. If it is hardware wallet, the seed phrase is still secure and safe than to be compromised

The seed phrase isn't saved in the hardware device, but the master private keys are. So, if you don't use a strong passphrase, you can have your funds confiscated without your permission.

[Charles-Tim]

The seed phrase isn't saved in the hardware device, but the master private keys are. So, if you don't use a strong passphrase, you can have your funds confiscated without your permission.

That's why I said I would assume it is safe. It is very possible that the hardware wallet can be compromised, it depends. But I can still just consider it to be reported, unlike paper wallet's private key.

Seed phrase are stored on hardware wallet, that is the function of secure element, or microcontroller unit on wallet like Trezor, just that it is hard to reach or compromised if stored on secure element.

That is true, using a strong passphrase on hardware wallet just for extra protection would help against attack.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I think this is not the same as hardware wallet. If it is hardware wallet, the seed phrase is still secure and safe than to be compromised, unlike a private key that that is written on a paoer or card or where it was easily found written, I can assume it to be like that.

So hacking a hardware wallet is theft, but stealing a paper wallet isn't? Why?

A paper wallet, if not written in a special way, is the same as cash.

No, it isn't. The owner no longer has access to lost cash. The owner may very well still have access to these bitcoins.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Seed phrase are stored on hardware wallet

I don't think it is. It's just the "Account private key".

In the context of Trezor device, the only relevant information is that the account private key is mathematically derived from the recovery seed using BIP39 standard. The account private key is used to generate all private keys, public keys and addresses for specific account.
[...]
Because the private key is the "ticket" that allows someone to spend coins, it is important that it is kept secure. Trezor allows the users to store the private key safely - it never leaves the device, and all transactions are signed in Trezor.

However, with passphrase, your hidden wallet's private keys aren't stored in the device, because neither is the passphrase:

The passphrase is not stored anywhere on the device. It is only used temporarily whenever you enter it.

No, it isn't. The owner no longer has access to lost cash. The owner may very well still have access to these bitcoins.

And that's why I advice to send them the message. If they don't react after a certain time span, it's probably because they can't. You don't have many choices. You either decide to never touch the wallet acknowledging it doesn't fit your moral temperament or you decide to spend the money at some point in the future.

[witcher_sense]

Seed phrase are stored on hardware wallet

I don't think it is. It's just the "Account private key".

I am just curious, how does Trezor wallet generate "hidden" private keys without knowing those mnemonic words?

[PrivacyG]

And that's why I advice to send them the message. If they don't react after a certain time span, it's probably because they can't. You don't have many choices. You either decide to never touch the wallet acknowledging it doesn't fit your moral temperament or you decide to spend the money at some point in the future.

Or, they have not realized the paper wallet is missing yet or they are still hoping it was lost somewhere inside their house.  Or, they just bought Bitcoin and decided to not touch them at all for a span of 1 or 2 decades.  Or, who the heck knows.

I can only agree it is morally incorrect to play the 'finders keepers' game in this situation.  Remember there are insanely large wallets that have not moved for a decade and started moving only this year (or last year).  This could be yet another theoretically lost one, but practically who knows.  It could be years from now that the owner will finally come to the surprising reality that their paper wallet has vanished.

I also support the idea of publishing the public key here just in case the owner has no other backup besides the one they lost on the beach.  And if ownership can be proved, they can have it.  If I was OP, I would either hand it out to the right guy or, if that is not possible, then I would just consider the 0.6 BTC as yet another Bitcoin lost forever.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[Charles-Tim]

So hacking a hardware wallet is theft, but stealing a paper wallet isn't? Why?

I just meant that it is easy to compromise a paper wallet if compared to a hardware wallet. Seeing a paper wallet is like seeing money, unlike hardware wallet that require extra work which the people given may not go for. But you are right, it is good to go for the best option that would get back the coins to the real owner.

I don't think it is. It's just the "Account private key".

Just passphrase are not stored on hardware wallet. I thought it is not new to you, a physical attack that can reveal Trezor seed phrase. Even on wallets that have secure element, the seed phrase are stored on secure element, but hard to compromised.

It is essential to store the recovery seed in a safe place - without it, all the private keys and funds are irreversibly lost.

A warning in case of a lost wallet.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If I was OP, I would either hand it out to the right guy or, if that is not possible, then I would just consider the 0.6 BTC as yet another Bitcoin lost forever.

Isn't morally incorrect to not utilize money that might be lost? If you knew that it's likely for the owner to have lost access, wouldn't it be incorrect to "donate to everyone" instead of making a usage that's more morally correct, for example charity?

Let's say you never find contact with the owner. In that case:

• There's a chance for the owner to still have access, and never realize he's lost the backup. Emptying the wallet in that case would be morally incorrect.
• There's a chance for the owner to not have access, and can't provide you the necessary evidence. Burning the wallet in that case would be morally incorrect, because emptying it would have the potential to do more good than making everyone else's coins more valuable.

So, whether you burn or spend the coins, you have the potential to have incorrect attitude.

[Lucius]

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address? Maybe it would help in some way to get some information about the real owner - although it is not clear to me why the OP has not already published this information?

Maybe he still doesn't understand the difference between an address and a private key, but after 4 pages of discussion some things should be pretty clear...

[PrivacyG]

Isn't morally incorrect to not utilize money that might be lost? If you knew that it's likely for the owner to have lost access, wouldn't it be incorrect to "donate to everyone" instead of making a usage that's more morally correct, for example charity?

I would not move the Bitcoin at all.  If they can prove they are the owner they can have it, if they can not then neither of us will have it, nor will they be donated or burned.  I think this is the best way to do it and also the closest to what we consider to be 'moral' today.

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address?

Just wait for LoyceV's answer, they are probably preparing that just as we speak!

I would like to add that 0.6104 might actually not be the exact amount this paper wallet contains.  So if anyone is looking through addresses, keep this in mind.  Some wallets hide the last few digits, and OP's might have hidden them as well so it could be anything from 0.61040000 to 0.61049999.  Should get a pretty short list of colliding results though, it is a pretty 'random' amount to have in a wallet.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[Minase]

18 wallets with that balance and all of them are over 2 years old

[o_e_l_e_o]

I just meant that it is easy to compromise a paper wallet if compared to a hardware wallet. Seeing a paper wallet is like seeing money, unlike hardware wallet that require extra work which the people given may not go for.

Irrelevant. Whether or not it is morally right to steal money which does not belong to you does not depend whatsoever on either how easy that money is to steal or how likely you are to get away with it.

Isn't morally incorrect to not utilize money that might be lost?

No. Because bitcoin that might be lost equally might not be lost at all.

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address?

OP said "0.6104...ish". There are no addresses which contain exactly 0.6104 bitcoin. There are 85 addresses which contain between 0.61040000 and 0.61049999 bitcoin.

[Pmalek]

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address?

OP didn't mention the exact amount. He was only talking about an approximation:

a btc balance of 0.6104...ish.

This discussion reminds me of all those topics where people discuss what should be done with lost coins or the coins that people consider to be lost and irretrievable. The answer is nothing. The network cannot and must not be manipulated to put any coins back into circulation just because some of them are lost or people consider them to be lost due to the fact they haven't moved in a decade. If immutability is a pillar of Bitcoin, it has to remain that no matter what. You don't know if I have coins that haven't moved in since 2012. Maybe I am planning to keep them there for 30 years and it's my retirement. I don't have to prove to anyone that I am still here and those are still my coins. Bitcoin stops being Bitcoin with such changes.

If OP can't find the right owner of the paper wallet, nothing should happen with those coins, ever. Maybe the wallet belongs to someone who invested in Bitcoin and has no interest in checking his wallet or the blockchain for the next decade or two, and once he is ready to use them in 20-30 years, they should still be there.

@OP do your best to try to find the legitimate owner but don't move their coins.   

[dkbit98]

So if you lost your mobile or hardware wallet on the street, you would have no problem with someone breaking in to it and emptying your wallets? How is that any different to emptying out a paper wallet you found which does not belong to you? Sure, OP is highly unlikely to get caught, but that hardly makes it morally OK.

But they are all locked and have security protection and passphrases, so they wouldn't be able to empty out anything (unless they are Kingpin), and you shouldn't carry your hardware or paper wallet on beach anyway.
Let's say few years ago I lost/forgot a photo camera in beach, and I never reported it as stolen because I lost it and it's my fault, nobody came and took it from me with a knife.
I am not going to put guilt on someone else for doing something wrong, when I was simply careless.

So hacking a hardware wallet is theft, but stealing a paper wallet isn't? Why?

Finding a paper wallet, not stealing.
There is a big difference.
If you think that any thing someone found was stolen in the world, than we are living in world that stole 99% of things and land from other people.
It's not the same if I found a piece of land nobody is using, and if I kill someone and take away land from him.

To conclude, I would personally try to find original owner of paper wallet.
After reasonable amount of time I would give one part to charity or poor people, and I would just stake rest of the coins for future.

[n0nce]

~snip~
There's soo much rubbish blown onto this beach. Beachcombing passes the time whilst the dogs chase birds and roll in the remains of dead fish. I also came home with 2 x rubber dog balls and a funky piece of driftwood.

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish. Is this typical of how these things work? I wasn't required to enter any other info. Seems a bit too easy to me....

Fair call. No worries.

That's odd to me; last time I made a paper wallet with QR code (that's a long time back, though), when scanned the code literally contained the private key - nothing more, nothing less. A second QR code contained a cleartext representation of the address / public key, but neither QR code led you directly to a website with the wallet's balance.

Different types of such paper wallet generators floated around in the past, but I'm surprised that an old paper wallet contains a web link that still works. So many Bitcoin sites went offline; exchanges, online wallets and also block explorers.

So, whether you burn or spend the coins, you have the potential to have incorrect attitude.

Whatever is correct or not, largely depends on whatever ethic you base your morals upon. Is it Hedonism, Consequentialism, Utilitarianism, ... It's a personal question, so there will be no right or wrong.

Given that the OP published the exact amount of BTC in question (0.6104), is it possible to search all addresses that contain exactly that amount in case it is only one address? Maybe it would help in some way to get some information about the real owner - although it is not clear to me why the OP has not already published this information?

UTXO set is not too large. Should be possible to scan it for unspent transaction outputs with a value of 0\.6104.* in reasonable amount of time.
Edit: No need to reinvent the wheel. Use available tools. Such as blockchair.com.

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/outputs?s=value(asc)&q=value(61040000.00000001..61049999),is_spent(false)
This query returns (as of right now) 127 UTXOs with 0.6104-0.61049999 BTC balance.

[franky1]

this image is not about the topics specific find. but im just leaving an image via google which might explain why a guy found a paperwallet in a sealed bag.. not the first time someone found a random bag with a paper wallet included
(hint: geocaching)


image found on google, image speaks a thousand words

[Wind_FURY]

If you do not know the real owner, then you can not know the owner. The reason we should keep our private key or seed phrase safe in a safe location.

Or if you don't see the "real owner" anywhere and you hold the private jey of a wallet containing some Bitcoins, THEN YOU are the owner. Private key holder controls the wallet. Is it theft? It's not, it's a feature of self-custody in Bitcoin, which makes it a very powerful tool. No one controls your wealth, except you as the holder of the private key, not the government, not the banks, not ANYONE. You!

[LoyceV]

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance

Did you scan the private key's QR-code? If so, the wallet could already be compromised.

....like I said, too many laws, too much restriction of freedom, too much government involvement.  Somehow when someone loses something and another person finds it, the government has laws in place that mandate their meddling (for lack of a better word).

Although I agree we have far too many laws and government is far too big, I don't think the law on finding items is that bad. If "finders keepers" would be allowed, any thief could just claim they found the item. Hell, I just found a Ferrari Lambo! It was totally unattended!

I just meant that it is easy to compromise a paper wallet if compared to a hardware wallet.

You should read up on BIP38 encryption Even a simple password makes it very hard to take the funds.

OP said "0.6104...ish". There are no addresses which contain exactly 0.6104 bitcoin. There are 85 addresses which contain between 0.61040000 and 0.61049999 bitcoin.

I made a slightly broader selection of all legacy addresses around this range:

Code:

14eLjod6F2ah2KKvxUV9zRnwgkTFPBC33a      61050000
1LcQK2jgwbrdAvzyVNHonpoQp1ECMn3DB4      61050000
16CHqj6SPky9T5enNdwXLVNgh1uPCz2a5G      61050000
1Ah41jARGcmWGEfxYPdGxhxL9kdYRu1HEF      61050000
18NA43NZgAPzvr1e9LhV7EFQSU5pdKr5B8      61048819
1VTgszWBL9Bucxrh4r5uj1rURunKmiBQ8       61048701
132fj2HwxgysZ8Bi19xEa6bqks7ZcDJUXp      61048488
1JyEFsX6dNe7AJYcKniQXrBk8VfqS7dKqy      61048331
1583qb3z53pHDUzxiHw72kzWH7FVK6mMBT      61047802
1JP2uT2MhqrtqHtZMMgg2hcV54Yw5BnYs8      61047152
16dP5aDu6vyA9QbN8HzbxLogjJNSPtWTWX      61046972
1GxBeXMEogGqxAE72pMPPZWuuxMwi3kkGx      61046719
18TwwNYLVxYbmXESygEVMhHvTkAvS8R4MQ      61045760
1L1cMrWMuUnV4WfdLv2Ds2tmqQi9G7mhvw      61045632
1vfEckEjM5ZTzSdjWCfubZGhBCpHaz5MX       61045614
148TucJejynPguqLKCgrn64VxvEYBDcKZc      61045092
1FfUn38CEawVyhNGiedV8nTCPqUi2tXiVn      61044842
1EwKSpXaxn7une9SLp7JAVSbm3mMQDU4ED      61044000
1Kmbdh5L6pWgJ5Kg5AMyqEaqrEoKbFENXp      61043830
12GEWVM8HQW9WiacUMmgtnBGrYziZnfqg6      61043696
1DfEUpKRpd4XhaakcAgAqeK9x66pjmsMZ1      61043000
1Fj1kNPohX3pGVidz4vfsZvdLBu7fKF6K1      61042156
13YUCSKqUFg5CFqnWztSVJMHZv2xEQ7D3K      61041259
17NkMSp8zDG621HQQLNaq9gqzQJwBudqpf      61041164
1Nebf4kTxvpyozXpmqMCdXawaNMhkVS8NV      61040600
19j93FEWWyVH5Gy6YJ1gG84FUvqK7i9uz9      61040508
1KF4cMqxw7DaYPh63bx22HAexFveekXvEo      61040497
1MMkMRi8NuNVmEmG38u2nJ14Xj3BGBvYCn      61040422
1JscNcdkvvxYA6CrxuhVHLWqiHkN4AYepq      61040268
1Hu3RKK35V9bbmEKBA2p7LbixAEm2HcFrC      61040258
18MtnxViv2Cp7vnocjuyzc4yF8yCBCY6o1      61039881
1HFXWqd5ML64AxE4c3DzSvEiRhEiNGmr3Y      61039500
1NDFkx3QmzE5iARda1pFxTjJxXuEBGw4AB      61039471
1L8ZrmArsUcr1BnTipoYabynpbpdWM8p34      61038488
17YpoNAoojRYv9c1GVrUwh448Y9RGucmK6      61038356
1J6EiRSGegfa1i69CTnFmTprFKinCMjEMe      61038250
1FYYXbNwychpx3KsosYX15c6ritpgQy5Yf      61038000
1H4QP6mQnNiVFAy6f86YNZbfPPEm2b9LwN      61037743
1JGmtUfyw7QgKb6ggZwCE36BNo8bVd2Uby      61037400
1936At62aXS8epprtjQiZV4AWGLdKrfm8P      61037177
1GY4WbWDRxtiUhYipSH2g93Aze5ENMfqZ7      61037000
1HRZG6ASqLyd6mrxMwV3ALgigfdhx1KhXT      61036917
1C3X5aZAYjBTgti7GU6VhErH6rg8WBqDuW      61036290
1H2wUSPgQaxP4V51JKvZuGpWEUhKnjif1k      61035866
1MCirzugBCrn5H6jHix6PJSLX7EqUEniBQ      61035329
19uJj1qSWf2qdH5B6p3QJieWkKC6mYwTrK      61035115
1CBhCMBuwZjgreA6uRzyE3y7MP8BKgAVKq      61034803
1DbaUbGuZKv4RCFLsqtzHofWkopAY1gwCd      61034576
164rmLcaYPbkLfmYKbAhfNeTnroftvFRx4      61034476
15pRZ6SZAeHpaji3iCodBkocxjdhMZYw12      61034277
1PUpynpNm2MyvkbRCfK9pwiLYzA6PzJYmb      61033300
1Jih4JvKfmLLYcnHLNT7Ydoba5Sa98R5sj      61032712
1Jvw9wbuYLNaLHJPuNw496zKpoqPvJbqx9      61032673
1EapZfi6ZuYBAQHcMVL6aFcAiD6W5SohhT      61032650
1PoFexmU8Gdej2xXA1MrLjnLeCTNMzeY8Z      61032468
1AdS1ycaZcpY8f7DMEPoUiw7MhCdKkqSXi      61032238
1Ly5K4kKYBXWfjbv4VmUberLdXFNr6yF7g      61031845
1AMHbmaWtrN9tDcP1vovkQdojhfqJXWPR       61031618
1EH4s5xYLzXPaTJzGVehLrRj1TwUZb3kRy      61031425
1KMaWhBg6aNUTkyDGN63U7KyciWw9cTPrx      61031037
19j2DHUnDcURBU3B7sBJSWfNeqVET1rDYQ      61031000
1C9jwQU9fsyaNiffZEwgSc3JoonNmeEbZT      61031000
16eabf2boFQDaiuNqzgzJP5mnfDL8AdF2q      61031000
1ACk424Mc6vMoKm7bPUA31UiwyjNuD2Lw       61030794
17auiEuA8usxmoHsx6x8ueBJcuJdnYEnNm      61030591
1P1rfFMzA8a6ZZzqbpwEQxVaeuewndsR44      61030000

It doesn't matter which one it is: if it's in this list it should be enough for search engines to pick up on it.

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/outputs?s=value(asc)&q=value(61040000.00000001..61049999),is_spent(false)
This query returns (as of right now) 127 UTXOs with 0.6104-0.61049999 BTC balance.

You're not looking for UTXOs, but for total balance. The wallet could have received more transactions.

[Charles-Tim]

You should read up on BIP38 encryption Smiley Even a simple password makes it very hard to take the funds.

I agree. If encrypted with BIP38 passphrase, and if the passphrase used is strong, it would be a protection, especially in this case. But some people may not use passphrase to encrypt their paper wallet private key as it is optional.

[hZti]

My first though was that maybe the paper wallet was put there intentionally because it is so unlikely that somebody would carry it with him at the beach. It may sound also possible that it was put there by a thief that didn't understand it but in any case I would suggest that you simply keep or donate it.

[Pmalek]

Finding a paper wallet, not stealing.
There is a big difference.

Finding something on the street or the beach and taking it is the same as stealing in many countries. Stealing does not have to be breaking and entering. If you walk behind someone who drops his phone or wallet and you pick it up and put it in your pocket, it's stealing. You didn't pull it out of the person's pocket but you still took something that doesn't belong to you.

It's not the same if I found a piece of land nobody is using, and if I kill someone and take away land from him.

An unused piece of land doesn't make it yours to take. Even if unused, it might belong to someone.

After reasonable amount of time I would give one part to charity or poor people, and I would just stake rest of the coins for future.

But that's the thing. What is a reasonable amount of time? 1 month, 1 year? 2 years? Has a reasonable amount of time passed since satoshi mined his bitcoin? Someone might say it has while others could say no. The truth is that it's a subjective decision. I make the decision what is a reasonable time before I spend my bitcoin, same as you. If one year is reasonable for me, maybe you consider 10 years to be reasonable.

[AnotherAlt]

Technically, whoever owns the private keys, owns the coins.
I agree that it may be unethical to 'take' them if we assume whoever lost that seed has another copy and might notice.

Hehe. Then Exchanges own many coins because users don't have private keys  . They only have email and passwords.
It's unethical for exchanges to steal users' coins.

Just Kidding.

[PrivacyG]

this image is not about the topics specific find. but im just leaving an image via google which might explain why a guy found a paperwallet in a sealed bag.. not the first time someone found a random bag with a paper wallet included
(hint: geocaching)

An interesting outlook, but geocaching is basically leaving an item somewhere and marking it on a map so others could find it.  Right?  If so, why would someone leave over $10,000 on a beach for someone else to claim?  Also, if that is the case, I think there should be a map showing all the geocached things so OP could look to see if this paper wallet has been marked on the map?  If you are right, this could lead to just the right answer this thread (and OP) needed.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[franky1]

this image is not about the topics specific find. but im just leaving an image via google which might explain why a guy found a paperwallet in a sealed bag.. not the first time someone found a random bag with a paper wallet included
(hint: geocaching)

An interesting outlook, but geocaching is basically leaving an item somewhere and marking it on a map so others could find it.  Right?  If so, why would someone leave over $10,000 on a beach for someone else to claim?  Also, if that is the case, I think there should be a map showing all the geocached things so OP could look to see if this paper wallet has been marked on the map?  If you are right, this could lead to just the right answer this thread (and OP) needed.
Regards,
PrivacyG

possible scenario
it was in a geocache box(at some time in the past). someone found it X months/years ago (when the value conversion was not worth $10k but 100x less) didnt think much of it or didnt understand bitcoin to care much.. so just disregarded it, and nature took care of the rest.

EG blew into a river that then ran down to the coast, much like how 85% of all discarded items found on beaches originated

i just found it interesting when the OP said he found a paperwallet in a zippy bag.. and also it wasnt just a passphrase but a QR code which is more of what i call a 'bitnote'(as demo's in image) rather than a paper wallet (hand wrote key on paper)

so if the topic creator can confirm if it was a 'bitnote' that was found. it seems more plausible that he found a discarded geocache prize from ages ago.

bitnotes where it has a QR code and instructions on how to redeem are not meant for the guy that printed it to keep as they already know how to handle bitcoin. its meant to be handed around to other people.

the other thing is the topic creator can use his block explorer to see when the funds were confirmed.
if they were deposited recently where the deposit was worth something more than a few days salary at the time of deposit. that the original owner would be shocked that they lost their funds.
however if the amount at the time of the confirmation was low. then its obvious a disregard amount meant to be found by anyone to then claim

[LoyceV]

i just found it interesting when the OP said he found a paperwallet in a zippy bag.. and also it wasnt just a passphrase but a QR code which is more of what i call a 'bitnote'(as demo's in image) rather than a paper wallet (hand wrote key on paper)

A (no longer trusted) paper wallet site used to sell CDs, tamper proof stickers and ziplock bags, basically making it a complete package to create and store paper wallets. Ziplock bags are quite common anyway, I use them for my phone and wallet too when cycling through the rain.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

I suspect it was stolen and dumped by an ignorant burglar. It's there any way to identify from whom it came so I can return it? It seems pointless handing it into the police if they'll just destroy it....

1. 0.6 BTC at current price is still alot of money for many.
2. In my own personal point of view, I agree that it is pointless handing the paper wallet over to the police because...
3. If there is absolutely no means or clues available to you as a means of guessing who the real wallet owner might be, then I honestly do not think the police will find any clue either, since they are not super humans.

Here is what I think you should do - - since you have access to the wallet now, I will suggest you try moving the funds to another wallet, if the operation go through successfully, then pay absolute attention to this forum to see if any user is going to complain about a wallet hack, incase there is, you can then try to match the wallet details provided by the user to that which you have at hand, if it matched, then maybe you now know who the owner of the paper wallet is.
But the above can only work if the real owner of the paper wallet is on this forum and currently active.

[n0nce]

Technically, whoever owns the private keys, owns the coins.
I agree that it may be unethical to 'take' them if we assume whoever lost that seed has another copy and might notice.

Hehe. Then Exchanges own many coins because users don't have private keys  . They only have email and passwords.
It's unethical for exchanges to steal users' coins.

Just Kidding.

They do own the coins and they do steal coins; that's actually not even a joke! I suggest you this thread.
[Blacklist] of unreliable, 'taint proclaiming' Bitcoin services / exchanges.

Back to topic: @easternklaas, I think you got enough bits of advice on ways to get the original owner to notice they lost their wallet.
In case you need help with any of the proposed ideas, don't hesitate to ask for more detailed instructions.

Anyways, just posting the address can't hurt and it may reveal that pursuing the matter any further may be futile (e.g. output may already have been spent), as well as helping with search engine indexing.
Make sure not to share the private key with anyone.

Addresses always look like one of these 3 options.

P2PKH which begin with the number 1, eg: 1BvBMSEYstWetqTFn5Au4m4GFg7xJaNVN2.
P2SH type starting with the number 3, eg: 3J98t1WpEZ73CNmQviecrnyiWrnqRhWNLy.
Bech32 type starting with bc1, eg: bc1qar0srrr7xfkvy5l643lydnw9re59gtzzwf5mdq.

Taproot addresses start with bc1p, but I highly doubt that you have found such a recent paper wallet - statistically, barely anyone uses Taproot yet.

[franky1]

i just found it interesting when the OP said he found a paperwallet in a zippy bag.. and also it wasnt just a passphrase but a QR code which is more of what i call a 'bitnote'(as demo's in image) rather than a paper wallet (hand wrote key on paper)

A (no longer trusted) paper wallet site used to sell CDs, tamper proof stickers and ziplock bags, basically making it a complete package to create and store paper wallets. Ziplock bags are quite common anyway, I use them for my phone and wallet too when cycling through the rain.

if you are concentrating on the zippy bag point you missed the point. it was the BITNOTE that was more interesting.
i did previously say that the topic creator can use an explorer to see WHEN the funds were confirmed to the address, and presuming that it was ages ago when value was way less, then that leans even more towards it being a discarded geocache.

EG paper wallets i own are not bitnotes they are just passphrases and private keys on paper. no design no logo(top creator mentioned logo) no instruction(topic creator mentioned instructions) so it appears thats its a bitnote not a simple pen on paper 'paperwallet'. and as such the main utility of bitnotes especially ones in zippy bags were not to put into your own drawer/safe for your own use but to be given out/given away.

so if the confirmed coin date was significantly in the past where the value at the time was not significant. then it leans more towards being a discarded geocache bitnote that the original maker doesnt care much for..

though if it is the case they could probably investigate anyone that did perform bitcoin geocache giveaways in that region of the planet and see if they can find the originator via people talking about doing geocache giveaways around the date of the confirmed coins

[LoyceV]

because...
3. If there is absolutely no means or clues available to you as a means of guessing who the real wallet owner might be, then I honestly do not think the police will find any clue either, since they are not super humans.

The owner may have reported the missing wallet to the police already. That's the official go-to place for missing items.

if you are concentrating on the zippy bag point you missed the point. it was the BITNOTE that was more interesting.

OP's description doesn't sound like a "bitnote":

There is faint remnants of a bitcoin logo on it and the words 'paper wallet' and the name of the website from which it came printed down the right hand side.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Let's say few years ago I lost/forgot a photo camera in beach, and I never reported it as stolen because I lost it and it's my fault, nobody came and took it from me with a knife.

Again, irrelevant. Whether or not it is morally right to steal money which does not belong to you also does not depend whatsoever on how careful or otherwise the owner has been with that money.

Finding a paper wallet, not stealing.
There is a big difference.

I don't see the difference whatsoever. Whether you find a paper wallet or whether you break in to an electronic device to access the wallet, you are stealing money which is not yours. What about if you accidentally stumble across someone's seed phrase back up? I would suspect that most people would view that as outright theft. How is that any different from stumbling across a paper wallet?

If you think that any thing someone found was stolen in the world, than we are living in world that stole 99% of things and land from other people.

I mean yes, but that's beside the point.

Hehe. Then Exchanges own many coins because users don't have private keys  . They only have email and passwords.

Completely correct. If all the bitcoin you have purchased is on a centralized exchange, then you own exactly zero bitcoin.

I will suggest you try moving the funds to another wallet

Once again, absolutely do not do this. The most likely way for the owner to access his funds is by realizing his paper wallet is lost and moving them. If you move them first, they cannot do that anymore.

[Cricktor]

OP's description doesn't sound like a "bitnote":

There is faint remnants of a bitcoin logo on it and the words 'paper wallet' and the name of the website from which it came printed down the right hand side.

In my reception OP's description could be something like shown below ^{(please, do NEVER use the site anymore referenced in the picture as it will scam you and steal coins from even offline generated paper wallets with their Javascript site code: those private keys can be recomputed by the site owner and he will steal coins as done many times since about approx. end of 2018 after the original trustworthy site creator Canton Becker sold the website address to some shady entity)}:
(pictures taken from one of canton's own posts)




The final zip bagged paper wallet (the colored version) is shown here:



While I prefer to call such an example a paper wallet, I wouldn't be irritated if someone were to call it a bitnote, too. It conceales the private key slightly better as if it were just openly viewable.

[franky1]

while again certain people want to pander to social drama poking of buzzwords.
lets just sort out their issues,
especially when the quote of the descriptors quoted by someone trying to social drama poke a failed rebuttal about buzzwords

a paper walet is an umbrella term
it can mean many things. mainly its only requirement is seed/key put on paper.. thats it
EG hand written using pen/pencil/crayon, or printed out

where as, there are then is a more defined sub-group of things that have more minimal standards
EG bitnotes
which can be any design made by anyone (its not a brand for a particular company/entity/person)
that has the bitcoin logo, the qr codes, and instructions to redeem.
where the purpose is to hand the bitnotes out to other people that know less/nothing about bitcoin

thus now lets come back to the actual point
by having the descriptors of a bitnote as oppose to a plain hand written seed on paper(basic paperwallet) helps the topic creator narrow down options for trying to find the original owner

emphasising the major point (finding original owner)
by using a blockexploerer to check the funds confirmation date. he can see if the value was still a significant amount the original owner would be concerned/cared about at the time or it was an amount valued at the confirmation time that leans more to a giveaway amount.
again by having redeem instructions and logo and qr code already leans in the giveaway scenario, as oppose to someone wanting to keep funds for self(no need to instruct self if your already involved in bitcoin)

also using the confirmation date can then look around forums and social media for people that performed giveaways/geocache drops that used that design at the time.

[Pmalek]

<Snip>

Franky you are forgetting about something. Let's put the terminology aside or if you want, let's call it a bitnote. So OP found a bitnote. Maybe person A created said bitnote and gave it to person B, and person B is the one that lost it or had it stolen. You could be right that whoever created the bitnote didn't want to keep it for themselves. But that doesn't mean the physical item wasn't given to the other recipient who now no longer has access to it.
easternklaas hasn't written anything for a few days, but I am sure he/she is still checking this thread. @easternklaas can you tell us what is written on it besides the keys? You mentioned a logo and a website. Share some more info about it.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

because...
3. If there is absolutely no means or clues available to you as a means of guessing who the real wallet owner might be, then I honestly do not think the police will find any clue either, since they are not super humans.

The owner may have reported the missing wallet to the police already. That's official the go-to place for missing items.

You are right, but I highly doubt anyone would think of reporting this kind of matter to the police, except in the occasion that the user was robbed and many items, including the paper wallet was taken from such a person, then no doubt, the matter can be reported to the police, but in an occasion where the user was just walking by the side of a beach and wanting to bring out his or her phone from the pocket where the paper wallet is, eventually, the paper wallet fell off without the user taking notice, I personally would not report such a case to the police since....
1. I don't think the police will go in search of the paper wallet for me.
2. If someone picked my lost paper wallet, I am not expecting that person to take it to the police.
3. Even if the picker turned out to be a good Samaritan by handing over my lost paper wallet to the police, I don't find the police trustworthy enough to call me up to let me know that my lost paper wallet have been found, the police are likely to keep the wallet for themselves.
Though I understand that police differs from country to country, but the fact that there are many countries in this world that their police are more corrupt than the citizens, this can never be over emphasized.

[Cricktor]

@easternklaas can you tell us what is written on it besides the keys? You mentioned a logo and a website. Share some more info about it.

It's not wise to reveal more details about what has been found with the exception of the public address of the paper wallet.
This has already been written by others, so please stop asking or there's less and less that a potential true owner could provide as proof of ownership.

..., but in an occasion where the user was just walking by the side of a beach and wanting to bring out his or her phone from the pocket where the paper wallet is, eventually, the paper wallet fell off without the user taking notice, I personally would not report such a case to the police since....
1. I don't think the police will go in search of the paper wallet for me.
2. If someone picked my lost paper wallet, I am not expecting that person to take it to the police.
3. Even if the picker turned out to be a good Samaritan by handing over my lost paper wallet to the police, I don't find the police trustworthy enough to call me up to let me know that my lost paper wallet have been found, the police are likely to keep the wallet for themselves.
Though I understand that police differs from country to country, but the fact that there are many countries in this world that their police are more corrupt than the citizens, this can never be over emphasized.

I find it highly unlikely someone would walk his paper wallet out to the beach, c'mon seriously. With such an amount of coins loaded that's ridiculous. Definitely I wouldn't take any of my paper wallets and put them care- and recklessly sloppy with my phone in my pocket to risk to loose them anywhere.

And yes, as I doubt that police staff is overly well paid in most countries of this world, there's potential that you can't trust even police to handle such a paper wallet properly. I don't want to deny the police any righteousness, many do their job right, some don't. It depends where you are and with what particular souls you deal with.

[hZti]

@easternklaas can you tell us what is written on it besides the keys? You mentioned a logo and a website. Share some more info about it.

It's not wise to reveal more details about what has been found with the exception of the public address of the paper wallet.

Even if you just have the public address you could go to the police to report it and maybe get lucky that the OP has them over the paper wallet. So I would definitely not share any more details here. What also the OP never said is if there is even a valid private key on there. If it is encrypted this whole thread is completely useless.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Share some more info about it.

All he should share is the address. Anything else is unnecessary and will make verifying the true owner more difficult in the future. If he will not reveal the address, then the whole thing is pointless.

If it is encrypted this whole thread is completely useless.

Not at all. If it is encrypted, it stands to reason the true owner either knows or has access to the decryption key. If OP can reunite the encrypted key with the owner, then the owner can decrypt it and access their coins.

[dkbit98]

Hehe. Then Exchanges own many coins because users don't have private keys   . They only have email and passwords.
It's unethical for exchanges to steal users' coins.

Spot on, and question is do we really own fiat money on our accounts or bank is the real owner.
Do we own a house or government/state is the real owner, and I can think of many examples like this.

I don't see the difference whatsoever. Whether you find a paper wallet or whether you break in to an electronic device to access the wallet, you are stealing money which is not yours. What about if you accidentally stumble across someone's seed phrase back up? I would suspect that most people would view that as outright theft. How is that any different from stumbling across a paper wallet?

Than judging by your definition we should not have word FOUND at all in dictionary, and it should be replaced with STOLEN.  
So anything people found down the road, on land and everywhere was stolen, and nobody found anything.
I mean you can think whatever you want, fact is there is clear difference between stealing and finding something.
That doesn't mean I would took any money from a wallet I found that have ID card, and I would do my best to find original owner and return this to him.
I guess in this twisted world government extortion taxation is not stealing, but founding something is stealing.... years of brainwashing education ''worked''  

[AnotherAlt]

Hehe. Then Exchanges own many coins because users don't have private keys   . They only have email and passwords.
It's unethical for exchanges to steal users' coins.

Spot on, and the question is do we own fiat money on our accounts or bank is the real owner?
Do we own a house or government/state is the real owner, and I can think of many examples like this?

About fiat money and bank accounts, That's a serious question. You are the owner of that money on a piece of paper. Bank/Gov can control your money. Here Bitcoin can resolve the problem. Satoshi created Bitcoin to resolve this problem over a decade ago.  I believe he was kind of successful. Slowly but surely the whole world people's will understand the importance of Bitcoin and its facility. Also, limited knowledge can Fu*k up too. If they own Bitcoin on an exchange, it's like you own Fiat on a Bank. Similar issues.

To newbies; Do not hold your balance on exchanges. Keep them in your wallet.

About many other examples, You are right. We will need a separate thread to discuss this.

[DireWolfM14]

~

There's obviously a difference between finding something and stealing something.  But there're considerations that should be accounted for regarding the particular item found.  If I find a brick of gold that had been buried on my property which I've owned for many years, I'd consider that brick of gold mine, all mine.  But if instead, I found a piece of paper with a bank account number, username, and password, I would shred it.  There's obviously a difference between those items.

Of course I understand there's also a difference between blockchain and bank accounts, but in this case it's impossible to know whether the owner has a back up or not.  Assuming failure of any attempt to inform the owner of the breach, I'm of the opinion that the ethical thing to do is assume the owner does indeed have a backup, and leave the funds untouched.

Now having said that; I understand there's little overlap in mathematics and ethics, and I value the freedom blockchain has given us to choose.  But, that's freedom for you.  We all get the opportunity to choose how we behave, and the right choice isn't always clear.

[Maidak]

I know how this sounds,.. but I swear it's true... I saw and picked up what I thought was an odd looking piece of card in a dbl sealed plastic pocket whilst walking my dogs! The card inside was wet but legible and after drying it out I discovered it was a paper wallet (I have no idea about bitcoin or wallets aside from what I have discovered over last 24hrs,... which has led me here).
The paper wallet has 0.6 BTC. Some strange things have been known to wash up on this beach.  I suspect it was stolen and dumped by an ignorant burglar. It's there any way to identify from whom it came so I can return it? It seems pointless handing it into the police if they'll just destroy it....
I am in Victoria, Australia.
Thx

oh wow get the hell out of here... hahah post the public key address on it. An then you can cross reference it on bitcoin-otc.com possibly or just google the public key. See what pops up

[easternklaas]

easternklaas hasn't written anything for a few days, but I am sure he/she is still checking this thread. @easternklaas can you tell us what is written on it besides the keys? You mentioned a logo and a website. Share some more info about it.

Respectfully, I'm not overly keen to divulge any additional info regarding my discovery than I already have. I have identified someone locally with the skills to search on my behalf for the original owner of the paper wallet.  I'll update when I know more.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I mean you can think whatever you want, fact is there is clear difference between stealing and finding something.

There is a clear difference between stealing and finding something which you then give back to its rightful owner. There is much less of a difference between stealing and finding something which you then keep for yourself, despite it not belonging to you.

I am curious if you would be fine with someone emptying all your wallets if they accidentally found your seed phrase back up (ignore for the sake of this example any passphrases, multi-sig, etc.) How would that be any different to OP emptying this paper wallet that he found?

Respectfully, I'm not overly keen to divulge any additional info regarding my discovery than I already have. I have identified someone locally with the skills to search on my behalf for the original owner of the paper wallet.  I'll update when I know more.

And respectfully, given that by your own admission you know very little about bitcoin but have now been convinced to start handing over data privately to a single individual, there is a high chance here that this individual will attempt to steal the contents of the wallet for themselves.

[Pmalek]

What also the OP never said is if there is even a valid private key on there.

OP can't know if the private key is valid without trying to import it into a wallet, which he shouldn't do because he would be compromising the security of the coins. He could try to sign a message with the keys but that would again require that he plays around with the private key. Better not do any of that.

Than judging by your definition we should not have word FOUND at all in dictionary, and it should be replaced with STOLEN.  

You are being very weird about your definition of finding. You can find a mushroom in the forest and take it and probably no one would care. You can't find a bike leaning on a tree or a wall and say I found it so it's now mine. I didn't steal it from anyone, it was just there when I was walking by. Finding and not taking it or not keeping it for yourself is totally different from finding and stealing an item. 

Respectfully, I'm not overly keen to divulge any additional info regarding my discovery than I already have. I have identified someone locally with the skills to search on my behalf for the original owner of the paper wallet.  I'll update when I know more.

I can only agree with what o_e_l_e_o said. Without knowing much about Bitcoin, why do you think you have the skills, knowledge, or experience to identify the right person that can help you in your quest?

[easternklaas]

And respectfully, given that by your own admission you know very little about bitcoin but have now been convinced to start handing over data privately to a single individual, there is a high chance here that this individual will attempt to steal the contents of the wallet for themselves.

I guess that's entirely possible. I think I have done due diligence to ensure that doesn't happen.
I'll let you know.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I guess that's entirely possible. I think I have done due diligence to ensure that doesn't happen.
I'll let you know.

I don't understand why you don't just share the address here, since that remains by far the most likely route to letting the owner of the coins track you down, far more likely than anything which will be achieved by blockchain analysis by this local individual.

We obviously can't force you to do anything, but be aware that if this person asks for anything about the private key, then they are trying to scam you/steal the coins. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to require any information about the private key, and knowledge of the private key does not allow them to do any kind of blockchain analysis or investigation beyond that which can be done from knowledge of just the address.

[n0nce]

Than judging by your definition we should not have word FOUND at all in dictionary, and it should be replaced with STOLEN. 

You are being very weird about your definition of finding. You can find a mushroom in the forest and take it and probably no one would care. You can't find a bike leaning on a tree or a wall and say I found it so it's now mine. I didn't steal it from anyone, it was just there when I was walking by. Finding and not taking it or not keeping it for yourself is totally different from finding and stealing an item. 

I love how this topic divolged into a discussion on the definition of stealing..

The Free Dictionary has these definitions:

steal
to take the property of another without permission: Did he steal your purse?

find
discover; come upon by chance; obtain by search or effort: find a four-leaf clover; achieve, win, earn, acquire: find an apartment

So I'm pretty confident that you can indeed find something valuable like a bike on the street, if you 'came upon it by chance', but don't necessarily have to steal it afterwards. 
Whether you are stealing it or not, then depends on what you are doing next. It is required to use some common sense; in the example above, it is clear that the bike belongs to someone, so keeping it would mean 'taking the property of another without permission' and thus be considered stealing.
If it's clear that the bike is somewhere the original owner intends and expects it to be, leave it where it is. If it's clear that it was lost or stolen, probably bring it to some lost-and-found office.

Taking a mushroom from the forest would most probably be considered stealing, indeed. Even though nobody cares about it, that mushroom does belong to someone and does have some value, so after finding it, by taking it home, you stole it.

This doesn't mean that as dkbit98 put it, finding becomes synonymous with stealing.
[1] Finding doesn't imply you keep it (you could return it, for example).
[2] You can also find your own stuff, which obviously would not be stealing.
[3] You could find someone else's stuff and keep it, but have their permission to do so - that would also not be considered stealing, as per the definition above.

I guess that's entirely possible. I think I have done due diligence to ensure that doesn't happen.
I'll let you know.

I don't understand why you don't just share the address here, since that remains by far the most likely route to letting the owner of the coins track you down, far more likely than anything which will be achieved by blockchain analysis by this local individual.

Maybe he doesn't trust us..

We obviously can't force you to do anything, but be aware that if this person asks for anything about the private key, then they are trying to scam you/steal the coins. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to require any information about the private key, and knowledge of the private key does not allow them to do any kind of blockchain analysis or investigation beyond that which can be done from knowledge of just the address.

They would need the private key to perform some of the actions we recommended, like moving the coins out and back into the wallet with an attached note.

Best case scenario: it's a very good, extremely trustable friend that is going to help easternklaas go through one of the recommendations he got in this thread.
Worst case scenario: it's a scammer or easternklaas decided to keep the funds.
It could be anything in between, but I guess as bystanders there's not much we can do right now.

I'd like to emphasize that we could have given detailed instructions on whatever method he decided to go for; and this being a public forum, he could have held any of us accountable (at least by our forum reputation) if we publicly gave him false advice. That's the reason I'd consider instructions on the technical boards here pretty trustable.

[DireWolfM14]

I love how this topic divolged into a discussion on the definition of stealing..

It reminds me of Bill Clinton's impeachment.  What is the definition of "is?"

I guess that's entirely possible. I think I have done due diligence to ensure that doesn't happen.
I'll let you know.

I don't understand why you don't just share the address here, since that remains by far the most likely route to letting the owner of the coins track you down, far more likely than anything which will be achieved by blockchain analysis by this local individual.

Maybe he doesn't trust us..

There are lot of differing opinions shared here, and I can see how that would be overwhelming for easternklaas.  I'm not sure that posting the address is a good idea, but it would go a long way to prove that easternklaas made a good faith effort to find the original owner.  If he chooses to cash the funds after waiting some time, that could help him avoid any local legal complications.  Obviously other more private and technical methods have been suggested, but if easternklaas were to find himself in a legal pickle, would the courts and the lawyers understand those technical methods and their value in informing the owner?  It's a dilemma, to say the least.

Taking a mushroom from the forest would most probably be considered stealing, indeed. Even though nobody cares about it, that mushroom does belong to someone and does have some value, so after finding it, by taking it home, you stole it.

I think that's going to depend on jurisdiction more than anything.  I live in an area where harvesting mushrooms isn't banned, but trespassing is, of course.  As long as the property in question is public property, there are almost no restrictions.  There is a small state forest not far from me that does have restrictions on mushroom gathering, but the rule (not a law) is intended to keep that specifically delicate ecosystem in balance.

I'd like to emphasize that we could have given detailed instructions on whatever method he decided to go for; and this being a public forum, he could have held any of us accountable (at least by our forum reputation) if we publicly gave him false advice. That's the reason I'd consider instructions on the technical boards here pretty trustable.

I tend to agree with this.  As long as everything is kept out in the open, things tend to go smoothly.  Any private communication can go sideways in a hurry.

This topic has turned into an interesting study of human behavior.  It reminds me of an incident that also unfolded on a public forum many years ago;  On a firearms related forum that I frequent someone posted photos of an M14 rifle that he was considering buying, and wanted the opinion of forum members about the value of the gun vs. it's asking price.  The gunshop had misidentified the rifle as an M1 Carbine (a much less valuable firearm,) and it was priced way below the market value of a typical M14 clone in similar condition.  But that's not all: This was not a commercial, semi-automatic clone version.  It was an absolutely invaluable, 100% real government issued M14, which is a machine gun and illegal to poses.  It was not on the NFA (legal machine gun) registry, so it most certainly had "fallen off the back of a truck," (or, in other words, stolen from a government arsenal.)  The fact that it was a machine gun was plainly clear from the photos, and many forum members were able to identify the small gunshop where the photos were taken.  The responses to this post were mind-boggling; many were encouraging the OP to rush back to the gunshop and buy the rifle before someone else who had seen his post does.

Now I am a staunch defender of the 2nd amendment, and I believe that restrictions on fully automatic weapons are an infringement.  Yes, it's extreme, I know, but another extreme belief I harbor is that I am a law abiding citizen and the mere presence of a full-auto weapon won't change that.  I only bring this up to make the point that no matter what I feel about a specific law and the premise for it's existence, it is the law of the land in which I've chosen to live.

I guess that was the long way around to say that whatever direction easternklaas takes, it's only his business and the business of the legal authorities in his jurisdiction.  Once he's satisfied any legal obligations, he'll only be left to answer to any spiritual authority he subscribes to.

[dkbit98]

If I find a brick of gold that had been buried on my property which I've owned for many years, I'd consider that brick of gold mine, all mine.  But if instead, I found a piece of paper with a bank account number, username, and password, I would shred it.  There's obviously a difference between those items.

Depending on law in some countries, believe it or not, if you want gold buried in your property you are not the owner of that gold, especially if it has some history behind it (ancient gold or silver coins, etc.).
So if you want to be good little boy, you need to pay taxes on gold you found and in some cases you need to give it to state.
Let's not forget that not long time ago, US government confiscated gold from people, made it illegal and exchanged it with IOY paper.

There is a clear difference between stealing and finding something which you then give back to its rightful owner. There is much less of a difference between stealing and finding something which you then keep for yourself, despite it not belonging to you.

Again the same.... think what you want, I am not trying to change opinion of anyone.
I can even choose to create many wallets and drop them all around the world, it's my choice and freedom.
If I don't write my contact details you are free to use them, and we saw similar examples and games many time of people giving away Bitcoins.

I am curious if you would be fine with someone emptying all your wallets if they accidentally found your seed phrase back up (ignore for the sake of this example any passphrases, multi-sig, etc.) How would that be any different to OP emptying this paper wallet that he found?

I clearly said that I would return all money and contact original owner in case if I found a wallet with personal details.
In case someone finds my seed phrase I would be fine with them trying to empty and send everything, let them try.
Only person I would be angry is myself for not properly protecting it, and it's not so hard to do it with passphrases and multisig.
I guess I am just not they type of person that blames other people for everything that happens in my life.

You are being very weird about your definition of finding. You can find a mushroom in the forest and take it and probably no one would care. You can't find a bike leaning on a tree or a wall and say I found it so it's now mine. I didn't steal it from anyone, it was just there when I was walking by. Finding and not taking it or not keeping it for yourself is totally different from finding and stealing an item.

Difference is only in your mind.
There are mushrooms much more worth than a bike, I could plant White Truffle and Yartsa Gunbu that are worth a fortune...so now you stole my mushrooms in forest right?
Someone is taking your money with taxes all the time and it's perfectly fine for you, yeah I guess that's ok because it's State and Government  doing it  and you ''can't'' do anything about it

[Pmalek]

Taking a mushroom from the forest would most probably be considered stealing, indeed. Even though nobody cares about it, that mushroom does belong to someone and does have some value, so after finding it, by taking it home, you stole it.

I don't want to turn this into a mushroom discussion but I was referring to the kind of mushroom that grow by themselves if the conditions are right. Hence, they don't belong to anyone if they are found on public land, not private property. Mushrooms don't have seeds, they have spores - fungal spores. When it's windy, these spores are dispersed to other areas. And if it's humid and wet enough, you could end up with mushrooms in your garden without wanting them. Anyways, enough with the mushrooms. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

I can even choose to create many wallets and drop them all around the world, it's my choice and freedom.

And I'm sure if you did that then lots of those paper wallets would be found and emptied of all their funds. That doesn't make it any less morally wrong for someone to empty a random wallet they find, unless you leave specific instructions on the wallet that you are giving permission to whoever finds it to empty that wallet.

I guess I am just not they type of person that blames other people for everything that happens in my life.

If a burglar breaks in to my house and steals everything I own, it doesn't matter whether I blame them for doing it or I blame myself for not boarding up all my windows and doors. It is theft and it is morally wrong.

Someone is taking your money with taxes all the time and it's perfectly fine for you, yeah I guess that's ok because it's State and Government  doing it  and you ''can't'' do anything about it

The fact is that emptying a paper wallet which is not yours is theft. Opinions on taxation are irrelevant.

[easternklaas]

I guess that's entirely possible. I think I have done due diligence to ensure that doesn't happen.
I'll let you know.

I don't understand why you don't just share the address here, since that remains by far the most likely route to letting the owner of the coins track you down, far more likely than anything which will be achieved by blockchain analysis by this local individual.

We obviously can't force you to do anything, but be aware that if this person asks for anything about the private key, then they are trying to scam you/steal the coins. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for them to require any information about the private key, and knowledge of the private key does not allow them to do any kind of blockchain analysis or investigation beyond that which can be done from knowledge of just the address.

Ok... so if I were to liaise with any member from btctalk who had offered information here regarding my find,.. would you be the most trustworthy and be able to resolve this in the most morally appropriate manner? If not.. who? I am happy to offer up any finders fee the actual owner proposes.. if any? Would other members agree that you were the most trustworthy? Genuine question.. if plan a falls through.. who do you all recommend here is most trustworthy? Is it based on merit points?

[LoyceV]

Ok... so if I were to liaise with any member from btctalk who had offered information here regarding my find,.. would you be the most trustworthy and be able to resolve this in the most morally appropriate manner? If not.. who? I am happy to offer up any finders fee the actual owner proposes.. if any? Would other members agree that you were the most trustworthy? Genuine question.. if plan a falls through.. who do you all recommend here is most trustworthy? Is it based on merit points?

I think you misunderstood o_e_l_e_o: you don't have to (and shouldn't!) trust anyone. There's no need to share the private key (really, don't do that!), but you can post the address here. Make sure you don't confuse the address with the private key though.

Other than that, I don't think anyone here can help you to find the owner. It's up to the owner to find you, so after posting it basically relies on search engines.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Ok... so if I were to liaise with any member from btctalk who had offered information here regarding my find,.. would you be the most trustworthy and be able to resolve this in the most morally appropriate manner? If not.. who?

No one. There is no requirement for this to be done in secret, and indeed, doing it in secret makes it less likely the real owner will find you. The chances of someone tracking down the real owner via blockchain analysis is much smaller than the chance of the real owner finding you after you publish the address in a public forum such as this one.

I've had many users over the years contact me privately after I helped them out in a thread, asking for more advice or even offering to share things like scrambled seed phrases or partial private keys asking me to help them brute force them. My response is always the same - far better for both parties to keep the discussions public, so the other party can get opinions from other forum users on the things I tell them and can verify I'm not trying to scam, and so that I cannot be accused of scamming them in private.

Sharing the address does not allow anyone else to attempt to steal the coins, so you should start there. If you want to proceed to creating an OP_RETURN output as has been suggested in this thread, then I or someone else can create a transaction for you which can be verified by other users so all you have to do is sign it with the private key. And again, we can publicly talk you through the steps to do that. Doing all this publicly is far safer than you sharing the private key with someone on this forum, even someone well trusted.

[dkbit98]

And I'm sure if you did that then lots of those paper wallets would be found and emptied of all their funds. That doesn't make it any less morally wrong for someone to empty a random wallet they find, unless you leave specific instructions on the wallet that you are giving permission to whoever finds it to empty that wallet.

You are acting like you are morally perfect man and you didn't do anything wrong in your life, and that is ok, but I don't understand what this has to do with things mentioned before.
I never said I would empty paper wallet I found, but I have the freedom to do it or not, I don't need any law or suggestion from forum members for that.

If a burglar breaks in to my house and steals everything I own, it doesn't matter whether I blame them for doing it or I blame myself for not boarding up all my windows and doors. It is theft and it is morally wrong.

Well I guess if those burglars are government agents you would agree and say that you are guilty for whatever stupid law they invent in future.
Maybe they noticed you visited restricted website with your Tor browser and now they need to take away all your stuff.
It's perfectly legal, so I guess this is morally ok for you.

The fact is that emptying a paper wallet which is not yours is theft. Opinions on taxation are irrelevant.

There is nobody to claim ownership for that paper wallet, and for sure I wont give that paper to government criminals.
It's my own business what I will do with it next, maybe I donate all coins to charity or burn paper and destroy in forever.
btw how many things you found in your life and report it to lost & found, you sure didn't stole anything? Watched illegal movies?? Disobeyed government in any way???
It's personal thing and I don't really care what other people do in their life.

[o_e_l_e_o]

You are acting like you are morally perfect man and you didn't do anything wrong in your life, and that is ok, but I don't understand what this has to do with things mentioned before.

I have never claimed that and I would never claim that. But the fact remains that if you take bitcoin which belong to someone else, then you are stealing. I don't care if you give someone a pre-initialized hardware wallet, or you hack a software wallet, or you stumble across a paper wallet, or you find someone's seed phrase, or a newbie shares their private key online, or even if you managed to find an address collision, or you fork the protocol to seize coins which dont belong to you. Taking someone else's bitcoin is morally wrong.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up taxes and the government, as it is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, especially when you know very well my disdain for governments and their surveillance regimes. I have never stated that OP should hand over the wallet to his government, but taking the funds for himself is still theft.

[dkbit98]

But the fact remains that if you take bitcoin which belong to someone else, then you are stealing.

So let's say you use certain Bitcoin mixer, and you end up with my ''stolen'' coins from that paper wallet, that also makes you a criminal and a thief, right??
Since you are big anti-tainting proponent for Bitcoin it's strange that you are so much forcing that FINDING something on the ground is steeling, just because government law say it's stealing.
In some countries it's illegal to use mixers, so I don't see any difference here.

I don't understand why you keep bringing up taxes and the government, as it is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, especially when you know very well my disdain for governments and their surveillance regimes. I have never stated that OP should hand over the wallet to his government, but taking the funds for himself is still theft.

It's not irrelevant because they made a law saying that is illegal and they educated you about that on TV or in educational system.
I mean use common sense please, don't rewrite dictionaries.
You are mixing apples and oranges but I don't want to continue talking about it, because we have clearly opposite opinions about this.

[o_e_l_e_o]

So let's say you use certain Bitcoin mixer, and you end up with my ''stolen'' coins from that paper wallet, that also makes you a criminal and a thief, right??

Obviously not, and I never said anything even close to that.

Since you are big anti-tainting proponent for Bitcoin it's strange that you are so much forcing that FINDING something on the ground is steeling, just because government law say it's stealing.

I don't care what the law says. If I take bitcoin which belong to someone else, that is morally wrong. Finding something with no way of returning to the rightful owner (e.g. cash) is different to finding a bitcoin wallet where the rightful owner very well may still have access and by taking the coins you are depriving them of that access.

I honestly don't understand what you are arguing here. Taking bitcoin which isn't yours is morally fine?

[BlackHatCoiner]

But the fact remains that if you take bitcoin which belong to someone else, then you are stealing.

Stealing is when you take someone's coins without their consent. You can't know for sure that they aren't fine with it, so you should try to reach them out. To do this, you address to forums, social media, perhaps even with OP_RETURN messages. If you don't get a response within a normal time span, you can't know their consent. So, taking the coins is as stealing as it isn't.

So let's say you use certain Bitcoin mixer, and you end up with my ''stolen'' coins from that paper wallet, that also makes you a criminal and a thief, right??

Being caught a thief is not relevant to being the thief. (And since you used a mixer, no one should be caught as a thief)

[dkbit98]

I honestly don't understand what you are arguing here. Taking bitcoin which isn't yours is morally fine?

Can't you read what I wrote above?
I said that I don't want to continue discussing about this subject, and you clearly don't understand what I wanted to say in my previous posts.
If you consider you are not a thief if you use stolen bitcoin previously owned by someone else, but some guy who just finds a paper wallet is a thief, than we have different understanding of what is morally fine.

Do I consider member easternklaas who found this paper wallet is a thief?
- NO, I don't.

I think it's clear enough.
End of story for me.

[o_e_l_e_o]

If you don't get a response within a normal time span, you can't know their consent. So, taking the coins is as stealing as it isn't.

I don't agree with that at all. The default position is that people do not consent to you taking their possessions. If I find your car keys, but hear no response from you after a month of phoning you, then it is not 50/50 that you are consenting to me taking your car.

Do I consider member easternklaas who found this paper wallet is a thief?
- NO, I don't.

OK, end of discussion, but I also don't think OP is a thief for finding a paper wallet. The act of moving those coins in to his own wallet and depriving the true owner of those funds is what would make him a thief.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If I find your car keys, but hear no response from you after a month of phoning you, then it is not 50/50 that you are consenting to me taking your car.

Flawed analogy: Car keys don't grant you ownership rights.

But: If I found some sort of magical document which whoever found it, gained legal ownership of the car, that could have come to my hands by either mistake or deliberately, knew no owner's name, be unfortunate at succeeding to find contact with them or some family member after a year of trying and had no obligation to give it to any other person or state, I'd consider it mine.

It might sound ridiculous to happen in real life, but not in the Bitcoin network.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Flawed analogy: Car keys don't grant you ownership rights.

Neither does a private key. The same as a car key, having access to private key might let you access the underlying asset, but it does not mean that the true owner has relinquished their claim on that asset or that you are legally allowed to take that asset. Using the private key or the car key to take the asset which is not yours is theft.

But: If I found some sort of magical document which whoever found it, gained legal ownership of the car, that could have come to my hands by either mistake or deliberately, knew no owner's name, be unfortunate at succeeding to find contact with them or some family member after a year of trying and had no obligation to give it to any other person or state, I'd consider it mine.

Now that is a flawed analogy. You find this magical document, but you have absolutely no way of knowing that the true owner doesn't also have a similar document and indeed the keys to the car, and is just choosing to use public transport for a while, or is working from home, or has decided to walk/cycle everywhere to stay fit, or is keeping the car as an investment, or is waiting for their child to turn the legal driving age to use the car, or 100 other reasons that they might not be actively using the car, and then you swoop in unannounced and take it from them against their will.

Your inability to track down and contact the true owner especially when that owner may very well still have full access to that asset and simply be choosing not to use it for the time being does not make it OK to deprive the owner of that asset.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Hadn't thought of it that way. Okay, it's a theft.

or that you are legally allowed to take that asset.

Speaking of legality, since bitcoin doesn't have a legal framework in most some countries, I believe there's no lawsuit the true owner can launch against me for taking his bitcoin without his consent, right? Even if he could prove he's the true owner (with zero-knowledge proof e.g., seed phrase).

[Welsh]

I think most of us can agree that taking the Bitcoin is morally wrong. However, what I'm most interested in here is what would you guys do. Leaving it there, knowing that someone probably hasn't left it there by choice, means that leaving it there you're probably allowing someone else to pick it up, and steal it. Although, by taking it (and not redeeming it) you're basically not allowing the person that have lost it to retrieve it.

However, it's also a beach, and therefore I'm assuming that the tides would end up destroying the paper at some point. Handing it to police as some have hinted too, could be problematic too, you don't know they won't just disregard it as they aren't familiar with the way Bitcoin is backed up, but you also don't know if they're going to try to steal it themselves.

So, the moral stand point is if you know you are not going to redeem it, that's the only concrete information you have, everything else is chance. So, would taking the paper wallet, and then leaving a note of some kind for the original owner to contact you help? Then, the problem is you've now got the issue of identifying the true owner. Of course, you could be vague in the note that you leave, and that might be a way of going about it. However, what about a person that had already seen the paper wallet, not picked it up at the time, but upon research discovered its a paper wallet, and then returned for it, and could have enough information to convince you they were the original owner.

I don't know what's the answer to this, and it might be best to just leave it there. However, that proposes additional issues as well right? It's a bit like the moral dilemma of the train tracks, where doing nothing has consequences, but also doing something also has consequences.

While, the person that lost it, should probably have a backup, one has to think that you can't rely on that, especially since the owner has already lost a backup of their seed in a public place, which they probably shouldn't have been carrying.

To be clear, I'm not proposing this issue from a legal stand point, but rather a moral stand point, I think a few users might be struggling to differentiate the two. There's most certainly a difference to me. Interested, to know what people's thoughts of the moral side of things. I think o_e_l_e_o might be onto a similar trade of thought judging by their comments on specifically the moral side of things.

In Spain you should give it to the Mayor of the city where you found the paper wallet and, after two years, if nobody claims it, it would be returned to you so it would be yours. In the case you don't do it, it would suppose a crime of "misappropriation". (This figure is 133 years old )

Even though the law states that's okay, I'm not sure I'd be okay with that personally. I believe the UK has a similar way of doing things, but the police or authorities shouldn't be the ones to determine when the original owner has relinquished their ownership of an asset. It should either be returned to the original owner or kept indefinitely until it is. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

However, what I'm most interested in here is what would you guys do.

I honestly don't know now that I'm rethinking of it. It's an interesting experiment, I ought to say. One thing I'm sure I'd do is search for the owner, and not at the beach, because most (or some) would say it's theirs. If they knew it's cash, most would definitely rise their hands.

If I could somehow know that there's only one paper wallet with this private key, and the true owner has no other way of accessing these funds, I'd take them for the same reason I'd take cash found on the street. However, taking bitcoins appear to raise moral issues, because ownership can be distributed in several places.

What I yet don't understand is: What grants you ownership rights, if not the private key? Car ownership is granted by the law, and same is true for almost every asset. For that reason, I'm not convinced that taking the keys of a car is a good analogy to taking the private key of a bitcoin wallet, and no one should be. It might be a good comparison morally-wise, but not beyond that.

[cryptosize]

If the BTC address is KYC'ed, you could argue it has a legal owner.

If not, oh well... maybe someone left it there on purpose? Like a real life mega-faucet.

[Lucius]

If not, oh well... maybe someone left it there on purpose? Like a real life mega-faucet.

How did we not think of it before - Satoshi travels around the world and leaves paper wallets on every beach he visits I think he chose the right time to start his humanitarian action, considering the inflation and all the bad things that are happening.

Jokes aside, although it's off-topic, does anyone remember a forum member who traveled around the world leaving behind paper wallets, something like a hidden treasure game?

[cryptosize]

Jokes aside, although it's off-topic, does anyone remember a forum member who traveled around the world leaving behind paper wallets, something like a hidden treasure game?

So that's indeed a thing? Interesting...

Yeah, faucets can exist in the real/physical world too.

[nc50lc]

If not, oh well... maybe someone left it there on purpose? Like a real life mega-faucet. ;D

Like this guy for example: RodeoX? (probably the user mentioned by Lucius)
He'd been hiding paper wallets in protected parcels on various locations and the latest was on Africa: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2710325.0

But given the amount, I doubt that it's him  :P

[n0nce]

[...]
What I yet don't understand is: What grants you ownership rights, if not the private key? Car ownership is granted by the law, and same is true for almost every asset. For that reason, I'm not convinced that taking the keys of a car is a good analogy to taking the private key of a bitcoin wallet, and no one should be. It might be a good comparison morally-wise, but not beyond that.

Since it's a moral question, not a legal one, it doesn't matter whether there are documents (like in the car analogy) that grant ownership rights, because these documents just formally state the previous owner's intent of transferring ownership.
If I understand o_e_l_e_o correctly - and I think this is how I would see it now, too - a credible way that something's previous owner proves their intent to transfer ownership, is a moral requirement for taking something, as it morally grants you ownership right.

As I said before though, technically, you do own Bitcoin the moment you have the corresponding private keys - that's why we always say: not your keys, not your coins.

I do get where you're coming from, though. Why is it not your keys, not your coins with cars, too? Why don't I own a rental car as soon as they hand me the keys? Or if I choose someone to custody my car keys for me?

[Lucius]

If not, oh well... maybe someone left it there on purpose? Like a real life mega-faucet.

Like this guy for example: RodeoX? (probably the user mentioned by Lucius)

I was thinking about him, but I couldn't remember his name because he hasn't been on the forum for a long time. Given that he was doing such things at a time when BTC had much less value, I thought someone else might have been playing a similar hidden treasure game.

[Pmalek]

I think most of us can agree that taking the Bitcoin is morally wrong. However, what I'm most interested in here is what would you guys do. Leaving it there, knowing that someone probably hasn't left it there by choice, means that leaving it there you're probably allowing someone else to pick it up, and steal it. Although, by taking it (and not redeeming it) you're basically not allowing the person that have lost it to retrieve it.

You kind of answered your own questions there. I would take the piece of paper, but I would not take or move the coins. I know that my intentions aren't bad and I am OK taking it. I can't say the same thing about the next person that walks down the same path on the beach I did. I would then do all I can to find the wallet's owner, but even if I failed I wouldn't move the coins or consider them to be mine. I wouldn't give the paper wallet to the police. I have seen their competence when a friend of mine had his wallet stolen. Someone found it empty of all money and returned it to the nearest police station. The rest of their procedure is a joke I am not going to get into right now.

So, the moral stand point is if you know you are not going to redeem it, that's the only concrete information you have, everything else is chance. So, would taking the paper wallet, and then leaving a note of some kind for the original owner to contact you help?

On that same beach? I don't think it will help. Like you said yourself, you don't know where the wallet belongs. The tides could have brought it from kilometers away. The owner might not even know it was in the water in the first place. A robber might have broken into the real owner's house and picked it up together with everything else he found and not knowing what it was, he just tossed it into the sea.

What I yet don't understand is: What grants you ownership rights, if not the private key?

Forget about the law for a second. Someone generated that private key. That's the sole person who should have ownership. The private key allows you to move the coins but you are not the one who should have those keys. You took them/found them/stole them from someone/somewhere.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I do get where you're coming from, though. Why is it not your keys, not your coins with cars, too?

The main (and only) difference is: You don't get the ownership rights with the car keys. Just because you can drive the car, it doesn't mean it's yours. Bitcoin private keys, though, do grant you those rights. Whoever owns the keys, owns the money. It's not how I see it, it's the way the protocol sees it.

Someone generated that private key. That's the sole person who should have ownership.

Forget about ethics for a while. Who should have ownership versus who does have the ownership differs. The protocol listens to the latter. And since ownership is defined by the protocol, whoever has the keys is the owner.

[LoyceV]

Forget about ethics for a while. Who should have ownership versus who does have the ownership differs. The protocol listens to the latter. And since ownership is defined by the protocol, whoever has the keys is the owner.

It's almost as if Bitcoin is designed to be electronic cash Old fashioned paper banknotes are exactly the same: you may have found it, and you may not be the owner based on ethics, but when you spend it, none of that matters to the receiver.

[cryptosize]

That's why I don't like moral/ethics discussions: they're highly subjective, unlike math/tech/nature/biology which are objective.

If you don't like the fact Bitcoin is electronic cash, you can always KYC it and then prove legally that it's yours.

[Cricktor]

But we don't live in a Bitcoin-only universe where only math and Bitcoin protocol rule. True, if you have the private key, you can technically move the coins. Do you actually own those coins? I see, opinions differ substantially...

There is moral, ethical and legal ownership, maybe some other more, what do I know?! I don't think that it's right in whatever context to exploit the technical ability to move data around and think you could gain ownership by doing so. But, opinions differ...

[n0nce]

Forget about ethics for a while. Who should have ownership versus who does have the ownership differs. The protocol listens to the latter. And since ownership is defined by the protocol, whoever has the keys is the owner.

It's almost as if Bitcoin is designed to be electronic cash Old fashioned paper banknotes are exactly the same: you may have found it, and you may not be the owner based on ethics, but when you spend it, none of that matters to the receiver.

That's such a great way you guys put it.
I was stuck on: technically, you can spend the coins when you've got the keys, and technically, you can drive the car when you have its keys.

It's just that in the former, the protocol sees you as the owner, while in the latter case, the protocol (in this case probably just the legal system, right?) doesn't - no matter how many miles you put on that car.

[cryptosize]

Forget about ethics for a while. Who should have ownership versus who does have the ownership differs. The protocol listens to the latter. And since ownership is defined by the protocol, whoever has the keys is the owner.

It's almost as if Bitcoin is designed to be electronic cash Old fashioned paper banknotes are exactly the same: you may have found it, and you may not be the owner based on ethics, but when you spend it, none of that matters to the receiver.

That's such a great way you guys put it.
I was stuck on: technically, you can spend the coins when you've got the keys, and technically, you can drive the car when you have its keys.

It's just that in the former, the protocol sees you as the owner, while in the latter case, the protocol (in this case probably just the legal system, right?) doesn't - no matter how many miles you put on that car.

That's because there's a legal framework regarding car ownership.

Is there any legal equivalent about BTC?

Do we want legalities/regulation?

I think KYC would be nice if it was optional, not mandatory.

I don't know how many people remember this, but decades ago you could just buy a prepaid mobile SIM and immediately use it, no legalities involved.

If you lose it and someone else gets it, tough luck! That's the cost of freedom.

These days KYC is required for every prepaid SIM. If you lose it, it's easy to prove you're the owner and get it back.

And on top of that, many famous services (Google, Facebook etc.) ask for your mobile number... why is that? Well, tracking becomes easier. They can associate phone numbers with social media profiles. You gain safety, but you lose freedom.

I don't believe people should depend on anyone's "moral compass", because it's highly subjective from person to person.

If you want something objective, the rule of law would be more appropriate.

As I said, I wouldn't mind KYC if it was optional, but it's almost always mandatory.

[LoyceV]

I don't know how many people remember this, but decades ago you could just buy a prepaid mobile SIM and immediately use it, no legalities involved.

I can still do that

If you lose it and someone else gets it, tough luck! That's the cost of freedom.

They usually ask for registration, so you can get a new simcard with the same number if you lose it.

These days KYC is required for every prepaid SIM.

I've seen plans for it, but it's not enforced yet. Some countries require it though.

And on top of that, many famous services (Google, Facebook etc.) ask for your mobile number... why is that? Well, tracking becomes easier. They can associate phone numbers with social media profiles. You gain safety, but you lose freedom.

That doesn't provide safety, it increases the risk of a sim swap attack.
This is how you get safety from them:

Code:

grep facebook.com /etc/hosts
0.0.0.0 www.wwwfacebook.com
0.0.0.0 wwwfacebook.com
0.0.0.0 hacking-facebook.com
0.0.0.0 www.hacking-facebook.com
0.0.0.0 facebook.com.esa-snc.com
0.0.0.0 mailfacebook.com
0.0.0.0 m.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 pixel.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 ads.ak.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 creative.ak.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 ads.ak.facebook.com.edgesuite.net
0.0.0.0 apps.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 facebook.com
0.0.0.0 graph.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 login.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 s-static.ak.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 static.ak.connect.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 www.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 www.graph.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 www.login.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 www.s-static.ak.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 www.static.ak.connect.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 0-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 1-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 2-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 3-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 4-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 5-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 6-edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 alpha-shv-03-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 alpha-shv-03-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 alpha-shv-03-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 alpha-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 alpha-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 alpha.vvv.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 a.ns.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 api.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlasalpha-shv-09-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlasinyour-shv-05-ash3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-01-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-04-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-05-ash3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-06-ash2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-06-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-07-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-09-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-shv-13-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-www-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-www-shv-07-ash4.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 atlas-www-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 aura-11-01-snc7.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 badge.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 b-api.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 beta-chat-01-05-ash3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 betanet-shv-03-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 betanet-shv-03-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 betanet-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 betanet-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 beta-shv-03-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 beta-shv-03-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 beta-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 beta-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 beta.vvv.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 b-graph.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 bidder-shv-05-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 bidder-shv-10-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 b.ns.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 channel-proxy-shv-04-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 channel-proxy-shv-06-ash2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 channel-proxy-shv-07-ash2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 channel-proxy-shv-13-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 channel-proxy-test-shv-07-ash2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 code.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 connect.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 dev.vvv.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 d.vvv.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-01-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-03-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-07-ash4.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-07-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-12-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-12-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-proxyprotocol-shv-13-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-ams2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-ams3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-atl1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-bru2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-cdg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-dfw1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-fra3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-gru1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-iad3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-kul1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-lax1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-lga1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-lhr3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-mad1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-mia1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-mxp1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-nrt1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-ord1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-sin1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-sjc2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-syd1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-01-vie1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-02-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-02-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-03-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-03-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-03-hkg1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-03-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-03-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-03-xdc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-04-hkg1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-06-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-06-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-07-ash4.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-09-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-12-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-12-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-12-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-12-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-13-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-17-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-atlas-shv-18-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-chat.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-ams2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-ams3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-atl1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-bru2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-cdg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-dfw1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-fra3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-gru1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-iad3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-kul1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-lax1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-lga1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-lhr3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-mad1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-mia1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-mxp1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-nrt1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-ord1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-sin1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-sjc2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-syd1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-tpe1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-01-vie1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-02-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-02-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-03-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-03-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-03-hkg1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-03-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-03-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-03-xdc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-04-hkg1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-06-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-06-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-07-ash4.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-07-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-09-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-09-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-12-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-12-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-12-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-12-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-13-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-17-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-liverail-shv-18-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-ams2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-ams3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-atl1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-bru2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-cdg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-dfw1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-fra3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-gru1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-iad3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-kul1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-lax1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-lga1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-lhr3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-mad1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-mia1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-mxp1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-nrt1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-ord1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-sin1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-sjc2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-syd1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-tpe1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-01-vie1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-02-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-02-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-03-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-03-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-03-hkg1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-03-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-03-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-03-xdc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-04-hkg1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-04-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-06-atn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-06-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-07-ash4.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-07-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-09-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-12-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-12-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-12-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-12-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-13-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-17-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-mqtt-shv-18-prn1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-origin-shv-05-prn2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-origin-shv-07-lla1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-origin-shv-09-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-origin-shv-11-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-ams2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-ams3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-atl1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-bru2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-cdg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-dfw1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-fra3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-gru1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-iad3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-kul1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-lax1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-lga1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-lhr3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-mad1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-mia1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-mxp1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-ord1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-sin1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-sjc2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-syd1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edgeray-shv-01-vie1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-ams3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-atl1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-bru2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-cdg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-dfw1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-fra3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-gru1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-iad3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-kul1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-lax1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-lhr3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-mad1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-nrt1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-ord1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-01-syd1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-http-p1-shv-02-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-ams3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-ash5.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-atl1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-bru2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-cdg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-dfw1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-fra3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-gru1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-hkg2.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-iad3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-kul1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-lax1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-lhr3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-mad1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-nrt1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-ord1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-sea1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-01-syd1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-snaptu-tunnel-shv-02-cai1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 edge-star-shv-12-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 instagram.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 l.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 liverail.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 lm.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 m.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 mqtt.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 mqtt.vvv.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 pixel.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 profile.ak.facebook.com.edgesuite.net
0.0.0.0 research.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 snaptu-d-shv-05-frc3.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 snaptu-d-shv-10-frc1.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 s-static.ak.facebook.com.edgekey.net
0.0.0.0 star.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 star.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 star-mini.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 static.ak.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 static.ak.facebook.com.edgesuite.net
0.0.0.0 staticxx.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 webdav.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 z-m.c10r.facebook.com
0.0.0.0 z-m.facebook.com

I'll stop going off-topic now

I don't believe people should depend on anyone's "moral compass", because it's highly subjective from person to person.

If you want something objective, the rule of law would be more appropriate.

That's the thing: both morals as well as laws vary depending on culture and country. If I find €1, I keep it. It's not possible to find the person who lost it, nor is it worth the effort. If I find $1,000,000, I would assume it's criminal money and wouldn't want to become a target. Even turning it into the police could be a risk. Leaving it doesn't feel right either. So I'm glad I've never had to make that decision
If I find a wallet with anything identifiable, I'll track down the owner. The same with finding a phone. And amazingly, I've found several wallets and phones! People apparently easily lose them.
I've never found a Bitcoin paper wallet. I think I'd report it to the police, while keeping it myself (assuming I'm right that that's actually allowed), and if the owner doesn't claim it within a year (again: assuming I'm right on that), it'll be legally mine. The interesting part is that it may still not be morally right though.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I mean yes, obviously if you are in possession of a private key then you have the ability to move and spend the relevant coins. But that does not make you the original owner of those coins nor does it change that what you are doing is theft.

I am reminded here of the conversations about known fraud CSW not signing a message from the genesis block coinbase address. Obviously he can't because he is not Satoshi, but even if he could, such a message would only prove ownership of that key and would not prove he was Satoshi. Such a signed message is a necessary minimum to even start the conversation, but it is not proof of identity on its own.

For the record, I am firmly against any KYC for addresses or other such nonsense to prove ownership as has been mentioned in this thread. OP owns the private key and so can now take the coins if he choose. There should be nothing at a technical level to stop that from happening, but I am still of the opinion that doing so is theft.

[Pmalek]

Forget about ethics for a while. Who should have ownership versus who does have the ownership differs. The protocol listens to the latter. And since ownership is defined by the protocol, whoever has the keys is the owner.

That just sounds like a poor excuse to take someone else's coins. You might not do it personally if you had the chance, but you seem to be justifying such actions. It doesn't matter what the protocol allows you to do, don't do it because it's the wrong thing to do. We are not robots. We are human begins capable of making the right or the wrong decisions. Taking or spending someone else's bitcoin isn't the right one no matter what network features allow you to do.

If I know your credit card number and the CVV number at the back, I have what I need on a protocol level to use your card for online purchases. Doing that makes me a thief though.

That's because there's a legal framework regarding car ownership.

Is there any legal equivalent about BTC?

You need a law to tell you what's right from wrong? You need a religious book or a preacher to understand what's the moral thing to do? Can't we figure out those things ourselves?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Taking or spending someone else's bitcoin isn't the right one no matter what network features allow you to do.

This. What the protocol allows you to do is not a moral guide. You can spam people with dust outputs, you can bloat the UTXO set with unspendable outputs, and you can store arbitrary data on the blockchain. You can run a centralized service which blacklists certain outputs or overpays transaction fees by 100x. And you can steal someone else's bitcoin by finding their private key. The protocol is neither a legal nor moral authority, and just because you can does not mean you should.

[cryptosize]

You need a law to tell you what's right from wrong? You need a religious book or a preacher to understand what's the moral thing to do? Can't we figure out those things ourselves?

There are 8 billion people on the planet, with 8 billion different ethics codes. That's why I'm saying it's highly subjective.

We're not predictable robots, we're unpredictable beings. You cannot enforce ethics on everyone, no matter how much you try to use guilt or shame for manipulation.

That's why objective laws exist and they're above the subjectivity of anyone's moral compass.

Regarding religions, I don't like them one bit. I told you that "holier than thou" debates are not my thing.

I mean come on, if human beings were dependable and ethical, we wouldn't even need Bitcoin in the first place.

In an ideal world where everyone is predictable and ethical, we could just have a Notepad txt file to exchange value.

[Charles-Tim]

Taking or spending someone else's bitcoin isn't the right one no matter what network features allow you to do.

Bitcoin give full control, you can have full control with extra protection. If someone wants to generate a paper wallet, he can encrypt it with BIP38 passphrase and have more than one backup separately, also separate backup for both private key and passphrase. That is what full control is, comes with sole protection. In case of one lost backup, the others can be used for recovery. I know you know this.

We can all come out good in the public, but no one can know the realities within individuals, implying that having possession of a misplaced paper wallet is not morally right does not mean those that said it is not right can not even steal it (I do not referring to o_e_l_e_o or you, but you understand what I mean). People think differently, as you are implying it is not morally right, some people will call it God's blessing and opportunity, especially if the founder is poor and suffering from poverty.

We all know this too, looking for full control comes with full responsibility.

[Pmalek]

People think differently, as you are implying it is not morally right, some people will call it God's blessing and opportunity, especially if the founder is poor and suffering from poverty.

Here is another point of view for those who are religious. If you believe in God's plan, maybe his plan for some people are too be poor and coming across money, or in this case a paper wallet, is his way of testing your faith and honesty. Making it yours might not be what he envisioned for you. I will end my religious preaching now.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Such a signed message is a necessary minimum to even start the conversation, but it is not proof of identity on its own.

And it'll be even less valid proof overtime, especially when someone accomplishes to solve the ECDLP and have Satoshi's public key reversed. At some point in the future, even his PGP key might become useless to have, in case that cryptography is also broken, and make it (finally) impossible to have a proof of identity for that person.

There should be nothing at a technical level to stop that from happening, but I am still of the opinion that doing so is theft.

What I'm arguing is that there should be nothing at a legal level to stop that neither, unless there a way for the original owner to provide a zero knowledge proof. You can't sue someone for picking up physical cash that isn't theirs, but you can sue them for picking up electronic cash that isn't theirs?

If I know your credit card number

Woah, I'll stop you right there. Credit card ownership isn't granted from a CVV number, but from an entire legal framework, wherein I'm legally in possession of that money according to the credit card company. The card's pin is only used to authenticate this ownership.

There are 8 billion people on the planet, with 8 billion different ethics codes. That's why I'm saying it's highly subjective

Recent event from the USA: Tornado Cash mixer's developers arrested, because... Apparently it's immoral, and therefore illegal, for some people to let some individuals protect their privacy, when a part of those uses it to launder money. Should I feel immoral for wearing this signature? Hell no. Quite the opposite.

[Pmalek]

Woah, I'll stop you right there. Credit card ownership isn't granted from a CVV number, but from an entire legal framework, wherein I'm legally in possession of that money according to the credit card company.

I know it isn't. I was just saying that if I had that information, I would have the essentials to spend the money on the card no matter what the legal framework is.

It's rather simple with Bitcoin if we want to make it simple.
Did I fund that address on paper or did someone fund it for me (as a gift, for example)? If YES - the money is mine, if NO - it isn't.   

[o_e_l_e_o]

You can't sue someone for picking up physical cash that isn't theirs, but you can sue them for picking up electronic cash that isn't theirs?

I obviously can't speak for every country, but most (all?) states in the US can charge you with theft if you find and keep a significant amount of cash or anything of value and make no attempt to return it to the true owner or hand it over to law enforcement. This has never been tested against finding a paper wallet as far as I am aware, but I would suspect it would be a similar situation given that a paper wallet is obviously valuable. However, a paper wallet here is unique in that the contents could be stolen by anyone who sees the wallet at a later time and without leaving a trace, which will generally not be possible with cash which is handed over.

I still think the best thing for OP to do is simply post the address so the true owner can try to find him. For all we know they are hunting frantically for any mention of this address online.

[hZti]

I still think the best thing for OP to do is simply post the address so the true owner can try to find him. For all we know they are hunting frantically for any mention of this address online.

If if this would be true in the US there is always two sides in law. The law theory and the law in everyday live. If the law in your everyday live is the same as the law in theory, depends mostly if the law in theory can be enforced. This would be the problem here, since bitcoin is anonymous or at least pseudonymous. So in this case there may be the theoretical law in the US that you can not keep the funds, but in practice there would be nothing that would you stop from doing so.

[o_e_l_e_o]

So in this case there may be the theoretical law in the US that you can not keep the funds, but in practice there would be nothing that would you stop from doing so.

I don't disagree. If someone was to find one of my paper wallets, or stumble across one of my seed phrase back ups, or if I left a hot wallet unlocked in public, then I fully expect that all those coins would be stolen, that there would be nothing I could do about it, and that law enforcement either wouldn't care or would be unable to track the person down.

But that doesn't change that the act of stealing my coins is still morally wrong.

[hZti]

But that doesn't change that the act of stealing my coins is still morally wrong.

That is true and I would totally agree that the coins should be sent back to the original owner if he can found and proof he is the owner. Since there are so many informations already in the thread I think to many people could fake that they are the owner already. IF the OP doesn't want to keep the coins there is for example this: https://www.savethechildren.org/us/ways-to-help/ways-to-give/ways-to-help/cryptocurrency-donation

[BlackHatCoiner]

IF the OP doesn't want to keep the coins there is for example this: https://www.savethechildren.org/us/ways-to-help/ways-to-give/ways-to-help/cryptocurrency-donation

Half of the thread's discussion is about if keeping it for yourself or spending it for something else is morally fine, when you don't know if the owner still have access to that money. Not spending the bitcoin might be morally incorrect as well, because it could be used to something that's morally correct.

As said by Welsh, it's some sort of moral dilemma similar to the train tracks. Spending money that isn't yours, ethics asides, is theft; I don't believe anyone disagrees with this.

[cryptosize]

Spending money that isn't yours, ethics asides, is theft; I don't believe anyone disagrees with this.

Therefore taxation is theft!

[Welsh]

I would take the piece of paper, but I would not take or move the coins. I know that my intentions aren't bad and I am OK taking it. I can't say the same thing about the next person that walks down the same path on the beach I did. I would then do all I can to find the wallet's owner, but even if I failed I wouldn't move the coins or consider them to be mine. I wouldn't give the paper wallet to the police. I have seen their competence when a friend of mine had his wallet stolen. Someone found it empty of all money and returned it to the nearest police station. The rest of their procedure is a joke I am not going to get into right now.

It's why I gave a few possibilities, by removing that piece of paper or whatever the deemed backup is, you could potentially be making it impossible for the original user to recover it. However, as you rightly said, that wallet could've come from miles away since the tides could be covering it. I'm kind of glad that this discussion came up, since the beach provides certain moral decisions, which aren't easy to make, as there seems to be a scope of consequences whatever you might decide to do, hence why I compared it to the train tracks, where doing nothing also presents a problem.

One thing for sure is, you know your intentions, but while those intentions might be good, removing that wallet could potentially hinder the recovery of it. It's a bit like the butterfly effect where your decisions can alter things, that you weren't planning on altering.

[easternklaas]

One thing for sure is, you know your intentions, but while those intentions might be good, removing that wallet could potentially hinder the recovery of it. It's a bit like the butterfly effect where your decisions can alter things, that you weren't planning on altering.

Hey thank you all, I really apreciate ALL the advice, feedback and banter this discovery has generated. After much consideration, I have decided to do precisely nothing at all with the paper wallet, except to slip it inside the back cover of my favourite book 'Shantaram' by Gregory David Roberts.  There it will stay. I hope the original owner has the ability to remove their coins. I'll rediscover the wallet if/when the universe wants me to, but for now I'm just going to leave it there. If you ever see the book Shantaram at a yard sale or deceased estate,.. flip through to the last few pages,.... you never know..

[Pmalek]

I am just curious, and I can see that some other members are as well, what is your reasoning against posting the bitcoin address here? The string that begins with either "1", "3" or "bc1". Bitcoin addresses are public information. You can find all of them on any block explorer.

[NeuroticFish]

I am just curious, and I can see that some other members are as well, what is your reasoning against posting the bitcoin address here? The string that begins with either "1", "3" or "bc1". Bitcoin addresses are public information. You can find all of them on any block explorer.

I'd assume that he wants to keep it private so in case he is cashing in those coins he is not doxxing himself.
The alternative would be that all of this is just a nice story.

[hZti]

I am just curious, and I can see that some other members are as well, what is your reasoning against posting the bitcoin address here? The string that begins with either "1", "3" or "bc1". Bitcoin addresses are public information. You can find all of them on any block explorer.

I'd assume that he wants to keep it private so in case he is cashing in those coins he is not doxxing himself.
The alternative would be that all of this is just a nice story.

Then he should send them to a mixer. It is not that hard and would make this way more interesting. If he doesn't want to doxx himself he should post here in the first place 

[NeuroticFish]

Then he should send them to a mixer. It is not that hard and would make this way more interesting. If he doesn't want to doxx himself he should post here in the first place 

I don't expect newbies trust mixers. There are still stories that only "bad boys" are mixing, remember? Also I expect some start getting afraid that the exchanges won't accept mixed coins.
One has to learn a little more to understand the value of mixers, so I would not rush it, nor have unrealistic expectations.

[BlackHatCoiner]

except to slip it inside the back cover of my favourite book 'Shantaram' by Gregory David Roberts.

How much for the book, I love it! 

The alternative would be that all of this is just a nice story.

He, the Internet stranger, swore you it's true, NeuroticFish. How can you be such a prick... 

Seriously, OP. Which part of "The original owner can't detect it if you don't publish the address" do you disagree with? Unless there isn't such wallet and you're just making fun of us, which can't have happened since you swore.

[Cricktor]

After much consideration, I have decided to do precisely nothing at all with the paper wallet, except to slip it inside the back cover of my favourite book 'Shantaram' by Gregory David Roberts.  There it will stay. I hope the original owner has the ability to remove their coins.

While I enjoyed the diverse discussion in this thread and your decission is up to you what you do, it's a disappointing outcome in my opinion.

Suppose the original owner still has a copy of the private key and thus is still able to move his coins. If he moved them for whatever reason when you check the next time, then fine, story and any moral issues are gone. But what if he doesn't see the urge to move the coins? As you don't publish the public address of the paperwallet, you make no effort to let the owner get aware of his loss. How does that make any later decission of yours to proceed in any way with the paperwallet more justifyable?

If the original owner doesn't have any details to prove his ownership unambigously, then it's almost a lost case for the owner, as I then don't see a way to distinguish pretenders from the original owner. The real owner could tell you the exact amount on the paperwallet and it would be good if the amount uses all 8 digits past the decimal separator. Pretenders could try to guess it based on what you disclosed about the amount (I guess more hits on 0.6BTC, but your 0.6104...ish, might actually reduce possible unspent transaction outputs considerably if 0.6104xxxx are correct). How do you want to separate pretenders from the real owner then?

I get ~120 unspent transaction outputs in the range of [0.61040000, 0.61049999] with the following filtered search request:
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/outputs?s=time(desc)&q=value(61040000..61049999),is_spent(false)#f=transaction_hash,index,time,value,value_usd,recipient,spending_transaction_hash,spending_time,spending_value_usd,is_spendable,is_spent

It's even less hits as I was lazy and didn't exclude too recent transactions...

How much for the book, I love it! 

Nice try! 

[BlackHatCoiner]

Previously I had suggested to spend the output with an OP_RETURN message. Ethically speaking, that's neither a good option, because some owner's relatives might have access to that money with a signed transaction wherein he has granted them inheritance. Spending the output would invalidate that transaction which is supposed to be broadcasted in the future.

I get ~120 unspent transaction outputs in the range of [0.61040000, 0.61049999] with the following filtered search request:

There might be 120 unspent transaction outputs with value equal to some of that range, but I haven't read he's said it's consisted of just one output. The owner can have funded bunch of times, with a total value of ~0.6104 BTC.

[Pmalek]

Seriously, OP. Which part of "The original owner can't detect it if you don't publish the address" do you disagree with? Unless there isn't such wallet and you're just making fun of us, which can't have happened since you swore.

But it wasn't a pinky swear so the consequences aren't that drastic.
If it's all made up, it will be interesting to follow what this forum account does from this moment on. Depending on future activity or the lack of it, we will see if we were tricked by OP or not.  

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'd assume that he wants to keep it private so in case he is cashing in those coins he is not doxxing himself.

Yeah, I also assume this is the reason. Which is a shame really, given all the better options given in this thread for trying to alert the true owner to the situation.

But what if he doesn't see the urge to move the coins? As you don't publish the public address of the paperwallet, you make no effort to let the owner get aware of his loss. How does that make any later decission of yours to proceed in any way with the paperwallet more justifyable?

Exactly this. It is entirely possible that this was a back up which the true owner had hidden off site, and is not going to check on for months or even years. He is perhaps entirely unaware it has been lost (which is why the better options I mentioned above were recommended). I have coins which haven't moved in years and I don't plan on moving in years. If they've not moved in 10/20/50 years, does that make them any less mine (or my heir's), or does that make stealing them any less immoral? Of course not.

Previously I had suggested to spend the output with an OP_RETURN message. Ethically speaking, that's neither a good option, because some owner's relatives might have access to that money with a signed transaction wherein he has granted them inheritance. Spending the output would invalidate that transaction which is supposed to be broadcasted in the future.

So make a transaction from somewhere else, paying dust to the paper wallet and including an OP_RETURN output. Or top up the paper wallet with dust then spend that dust making an OP_RETURN output. Anyone looking up the address will notice something going on without invalidating the original output.

[Pmalek]

I have coins which haven't moved in years and I don't plan on moving in years. If they've not moved in 10/20/50 years, does that make them any less mine (or my heir's), or does that make stealing them any less immoral? Of course not.

That's exactly what I said previously as a reply when someone suggested they would hold on to the paper wallet for a year and if the original owner doesn't move the coins, then they would consider them as lost and take them. But we can't put such flags on bitcoin UTXOs just because a similar law exists for some other assets or physical objects. For example, items from the Lost & Found at some airports are stored for 6 months, after that they get auctioned off. We shouldn't use the same logic with bitcoin. For all you know, I might have been incapacitated to check on my coins in that one year period you decided to give me.

[Cricktor]

So make a transaction from somewhere else, paying dust to the paper wallet and including an OP_RETURN output. Or top up the paper wallet with dust then spend that dust making an OP_RETURN output. Anyone looking up the address will notice something going on without invalidating the original output.

THIS is an excellent approach! But as OP wasn't involved with Bitcoin before, unfortunately unlikely to happen. Transfering a little dust to the paperwallet's address together with a commentary OP_RETURN should cost less than ~1000sat (I'm too lazy to figure out the cheapest amount). Optional removal of dust (very signaling move for the real owner if (s)he cares to look!) would need to be done by the finder himself (don't trust others with the private key!).

[o_e_l_e_o]

For example, items from the Lost & Found at some airports are stored for 6 months, after that they get auctioned off.

Bitcoin should not be treated as a physical asset. With a physical asset, if someone else possesses it then you do not. If you lose cash, a credit card, your wallet, your phone, or any other physical asset, then it is obvious to you that that thing has been lost as it is no longer in your possession. Losing a private key is not the same, since it is entirely possible for two people to both possess the same private key at the same time. A better analogy in this case (ignoring the whole self-custody aspect) would be like someone having a key to your safe, or access to your bank account. If I look at the contents of your safe, and then 5 years later see the same contents in that safe, do I get to take them for myself since you haven't used them in 5 years? If I have access to your savings account with $10k in it, and 5 years later is still has $10k in it (plus interest), is it morally fine for me to clear out your account since you haven't used that money in 5 years? Of course not. Bitcoin is no different.

Coins not moving does not equal coins lost. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

[m2017]

For example, items from the Lost & Found at some airports are stored for 6 months, after that they get auctioned off.

Bitcoin should not be treated as a physical asset. With a physical asset, if someone else possesses it then you do not. If you lose cash, a credit card, your wallet, your phone, or any other physical asset, then it is obvious to you that that thing has been lost as it is no longer in your possession. Losing a private key is not the same, since it is entirely possible for two people to both possess the same private key at the same time. A better analogy in this case (ignoring the whole self-custody aspect) would be like someone having a key to your safe, or access to your bank account. If I look at the contents of your safe, and then 5 years later see the same contents in that safe, do I get to take them for myself since you haven't used them in 5 years? If I have access to your savings account with $10k in it, and 5 years later is still has $10k in it (plus interest), is it morally fine for me to clear out your account since you haven't used that money in 5 years? Of course not. Bitcoin is no different.

Coins not moving does not equal coins lost. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise.

Your explanations and an example with an analogy allowed me to look at this case, when OP found paper wallet on the beach from a completely different angle.

~snip
I think it would be more ethical to wait a while and not touch these bitcoin, giving the owner a chance to return them.

Before that, it seemed to me that needed to wait a while, and after that OP could assign btc using the found paper wallet. After reading your post, I am now firmly convinced that in no case should you touch these coins if the finder has at least the rudiments of morality and morality. I think it applies to this case as well as any other.

I also think OP can try to let the owner know that his seed phrase has been compromised. For example, send a small amount to another address and return it back with a signed message with information so that the owner moves btc to another address. It is not a fact that the owner will immediately detect this if he rarely checks his wallet and it may turn out that he has no other access due to the lost paper wallet, but it's worth a try. 

[Pmalek]

Bitcoin should not be treated as a physical asset. With a physical asset, if someone else possesses it then you do not. If you lose cash, a credit card, your wallet, your phone, or any other physical asset, then it is obvious to you that that thing has been lost as it is no longer in your possession. Losing a private key is not the same, since it is entirely possible for two people to both possess the same private key at the same time.

We agree on all points in this particular case, however the thing with this particular private key found on the beach by the OP is that it is a physical object represented in a paper wallet form. Whoever the original owner is or who their successors are, they have lost a physical object that used to be in their possession somewhere and somehow. Hopefully, that's not their only backup, they will discover sooner or later that it's missing and move the coins elsewhere. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

For example, send a small amount to another address and return it back with a signed message with information so that the owner moves btc to another address. It is not a fact that the owner will immediately detect this if he rarely checks his wallet and it may turn out that he has no other access due to the lost paper wallet, but it's worth a try.

As explained above, a better solution would be to make a transaction sending a tiny amount of coins to the paper wallet address, and including an OP_RETURN output with some information on how to contact OP, perhaps with a link to this thread. This prevents any issues in the rare but possible case that the true owner has a signed transaction involving the original output stored somewhere.

Whoever the original owner is or who their successors are, they have lost a physical object that used to be in their possession somewhere and somehow. Hopefully, that's not their only backup, they will discover sooner or later that it's missing and move the coins elsewhere.

Yeah, that's a good point. I also have a number of back ups stored off site, as everyone should. These backs ups are obviously highly secured and incredibly unlikely to end up on a beach somewhere (not to mention that no single back up is enough to compromise any of my wallets), but at the same time, I obviously don't check on these back ups every day. It is possible, however unlikely, that I would lose one of my back ups and not realize for a period of weeks. There is no telling how diligent or otherwise the true owner of these coins might be, and it could very well be months or even years before they realize that their paper wallet is lost.

[LoyceV]

Yeah, that's a good point. I also have a number of back ups stored off site, as everyone should. These backs ups are obviously highly secured and incredibly unlikely to end up on a beach somewhere (not to mention that no single back up is enough to compromise any of my wallets), but at the same time, I obviously don't check on these back ups every day. It is possible, however unlikely, that I would lose one of my back ups and not realize for a period of weeks. There is no telling how diligent or otherwise the true owner of these coins might be, and it could very well be months or even years before they realize that their paper wallet is lost.

Just a thought: you could add a "canary": a very simple unencrypted paper wallet with private key QR-code and instructions how to claim it. If someone finds it, you lose the small amount, but you'll know your backup is compromised without driving into the desert to check and digging a hole at N34 59 20, W106 36 52 each time.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Just a thought: you could add a "canary": a very simple unencrypted paper wallet with private key QR-code and instructions how to claim it. If someone finds it, you lose the small amount, but you'll know your backup is compromised without driving into the desert to check and digging a hole at N34 59 20, W106 36 52 each time.

Joke's on you, that's where I store my barrels full of millions of dollars, not my bitcoin back ups! Wait...

That's not a bad idea, actually. However, I am more than happy that all of my off site back up locations are incredibly secure and are highly unlikely to be found by anyone either accidentally or deliberately looking for them. If any of the back ups were to be compromised, it would far more likely be due to a massive natural disaster, in which case the canary wallet would not help (although I would probably be aware of the fact via news reports or other media). And in the case of someone deliberately looking for my back ups, they would know not to spend the canary and attract attention to themselves, since as I said after finding one back up they would still need to search for others to be able to steal anything from me.

[LoyceV]

Joke's on you, that's where I store my barrels full of millions of dollars, not my bitcoin back ups! Wait...

That brings me on another thought (I'm on a roll today): those barrels with money are only meant to distract thiefs from digging further, where they'd find my private keys

I am more than happy that all of my off site back up locations are incredibly secure and are highly unlikely to be found by anyone either accidentally or deliberately looking for them.

Yeah, I feel pretty secure with my setup too, so there's no "canary" involved either.

[Pmalek]

Just a thought: you could add a "canary": a very simple unencrypted paper wallet with private key QR-code and instructions how to claim it. If someone finds it, you lose the small amount, but you'll know your backup is compromised without driving into the desert to check and digging a hole at N34 59 20, W106 36 52 each time.

And you can connect the address to a bot on Telegram, for example, that would notify you as soon as there is movement on said address. Since the amount is an insignificant one, you don't have to worry about your privacy. The Telegram account can be connected to a phone number not used for anything else or only for unimportant stuff non identity-revealing activities.   

[o_e_l_e_o]

And you can connect the address to a bot on Telegram, for example, that would notify you as soon as there is movement on said address.

Or just create a new wallet on Core and import all your canary addresses in to it. Since your node is running 24/7 anyway, then it will immediately know about any movement. From there you can set up a local notification system to send an alert to your phone or something similar if you want for times you are away from your computer. Or set up a watch only wallet on your phone (assuming your phone is probably with you 24/7) pointed at your own full node.

I'd much rather use a self-hosted set up than rely on a third party, especially an insecure one which does not use end to end encryption by default like Telegram.

[dkbit98]

I am not sure if this is directly connected with case of OP finding paper wallet or if this was posted before, but there is very similar situation happening in Melbourne, Australia.
This appears to be scam attempt with QR code with a key to access the account with alleged 0.62 BTC which can be withdrawn.
Printed address starting with 1LMy3... has total deposits of only 0.15 BTC if you look in blockchain explorer, and coins are flagged as fraudulent or scams.
This was posted on Bitcoin reddit channel, it's called “Printkey Wallet” and this is how it looks like:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

Very similar amount and country like in case with OP.

[cryptosize]

I am not sure if this is directly connected with case of OP finding paper wallet or if this was posted before, but there is very similar situation happening in Melbourne, Australia.
This appears to be scam attempt with QR code with a key to access the account with alleged 0.62 BTC which can be withdrawn.
Printed address starting with 1LMy3... has total deposits of only 0.15 BTC if you look in blockchain explorer, and coins are flagged as fraudulent or scams.
This was posted on Bitcoin reddit channel, it's called “Printkey Wallet” and this is how it looks like:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

Very similar amount and country like in case with OP.

What's the point of this scam? I don't get it.

[LoyceV]

Printed address starting with 1LMy3... has total deposits of only 0.15 BTC if you look in blockchain explorer, and coins are flagged as fraudulent or scams.

I don't believe in "taint", that's BS Aside from that, 1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

Very similar amount and country like in case with OP.

I'm still curious: does this "wallet" somehow link to an account on a website instead of a private key?

What's the point of this scam? I don't get it.

I'm with ndgoLiberty on Reddit:

Probably hoping people put their funds in this wallet and then the creator wipes the funds.

[dkbit98]

I don't believe in "taint", that's BS Aside from that, 1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

That was probably a type made by OP, missing one zer0.

I'm still curious: does this "wallet" somehow link to an account on a website instead of a private key?

I don't know.
I am trying to find more information about this, but I think there is a link to some website inside those paper wallets.
After visiting website they probably show you fake balance, but you need to deposit first to be able to withdraw.
There are similar online scams, but I never saw someone making fake paper wallets like this.

[n0nce]

Printed address starting with 1LMy3... has total deposits of only 0.15 BTC if you look in blockchain explorer, and coins are flagged as fraudulent or scams.

I don't believe in "taint", that's BS Aside from that, 1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

Same here. Where I spend my Bitcoin, they will accept these coins, so to me such a wallet would literally be free money. $300 USD can buy a cool new SSD for a node or something. I don't see the scam.
Heck, I could just open a Lightning node with someone and provide some more LN liquidity. I've got to see nodes closing channels that were opened towards them with 'blacklisted' coins.

I find it amusing that the first few Reddit replies don't even mention that 'blacklisted' isn't really a thing in Bitcoin, like at all. 'Which blacklist?', should be the first question popping up.

What's the point of this scam? I don't get it.

I'm with ndgoLiberty on Reddit:

Probably hoping people put their funds in this wallet and then the creator wipes the funds.

But why? Like, anyone finding such a paper wallet would just sweep it. There's no point depositing first, before sweeping it.

On the contrary, that's something which absolutely works and is done in some cryptocurrencies that have a notion of 'gas'.
Example: Assume this is a USDT wallet, that holds $1,000 in Tether, but has no gas (Ether) in it. The scammers wait for the victim to deposit like $1 USD in Ether to be able to move those $1,000 USDT, but the moment Ether are deposited, the scammers swoop it away.

[DireWolfM14]

I am not sure if this is directly connected with case of OP finding paper wallet or if this was posted before, but there is very similar situation happening in Melbourne, Australia.
This appears to be scam attempt with QR code with a key to access the account with alleged 0.62 BTC which can be withdrawn.

This whole time I was under the impression that the OP's has the private key, so I'm sure this is mere coincidence.  But the similarities are striking.

If the OP's wallet turns out to be one of the same batch and it's just some trickery or worse, then we got punked just the same.  It would also mean these last 10 pages and deep discussions of ethics and mushrooms was all for nothing.

How sad that would be.  

I'm still curious: does this "wallet" somehow link to an account on a website instead of a private key?

Apparently so, here's a quote from the reddit OP:

A QR code with a key to access the account. When you get in there it says there is .62 BTC which can be withdrawn. I didn’t go further into withdrawing to see what they ask, but the account 1LM.. has only ever had .15 BTC in it on blockchain records, and they have only ever deposited from accounts that have been flagged as fraudulent or scams. Nothing seemed to flag malware/ransomware on site but I am guessing the details provided on the withdraw page are what the scam is, not malicious software. Anyone heard of “Printkey Wallet” before? That’s where the QR scans to.

*emphasis mine

I think n0nce is right, it seems to direct to a site were they will probably ask for your most recent dental x-rays and then for a deposit of $50 to unlock your $12k.  Lame scammers.  They should be prosecuted for littering.

[LoyceV]

I'm still curious: does this "wallet" somehow link to an account on a website instead of a private key?

Apparently so, here's a quote from the reddit OP:

A QR code with a key to access the account. When you get in there it says there is .62 BTC which can be withdrawn. I didn’t go further into withdrawing to see what they ask, but the account 1LM.. has only ever had .15 BTC in it on blockchain records, and they have only ever deposited from accounts that have been flagged as fraudulent or scams. Nothing seemed to flag malware/ransomware on site but I am guessing the details provided on the withdraw page are what the scam is, not malicious software. Anyone heard of “Printkey Wallet” before? That’s where the QR scans to.

It sounds like OP has the same:

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish.

[Pmalek]

Since this thread also touched upon the subject if bitcoins that don't move can be considered lost or if a lack of activity means that the original owner no longer has access to their coins, here is an interesting case I found in the Bitcoin Discussion sub. 12 years ago mined 50 Bitcoin just moved.

Someone who received a 50 BTC block reward in July 2010 moved those coins to a different address on 22 August 2022. Therefore, coins that haven't moved for a decade can't and shouldn't be classified as lost. And those coins don't become yours just because the original owner fails to move them elsewhere.

[DireWolfM14]

It sounds like OP has the same:

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish.

Very interesting!  I just went back to re-read the few replies after easternklaas made that post; it seems like all of us missed the implications of the "concealed code" he referenced.  In light of what dkbit98 found on reddit, it seems like the OP's wallet is just a ruse.

Now that it seems this is nothing more than a joke, I hope easternklaas comes back and helps us get to the bottom of this weird event.  At the very least, sharing the public key no longer seems like a privacy risk.

[n0nce]

If the OP's wallet turns out to be one of the same batch and it's just some trickery or worse, then we got punked just the same.  It would also mean these last 10 pages and deep discussions of ethics and mushrooms was all for nothing.
How sad that would be.  

Oh well, we can't say we didn't have fun, right..

I'm still curious: does this "wallet" somehow link to an account on a website instead of a private key?

Apparently so, here's a quote from the reddit OP:

A QR code with a key to access the account. When you get in there it says there is .62 BTC which can be withdrawn. I didn’t go further into withdrawing to see what they ask, but the account 1LM.. has only ever had .15 BTC in it on blockchain records, and they have only ever deposited from accounts that have been flagged as fraudulent or scams. Nothing seemed to flag malware/ransomware on site but I am guessing the details provided on the withdraw page are what the scam is, not malicious software. Anyone heard of “Printkey Wallet” before? That’s where the QR scans to.

*emphasis mine
I think n0nce is right, it seems to direct to a site were they will probably ask for your most recent dental x-rays and then for a deposit of $50 to unlock your $12k.  Lame scammers.  They should be prosecuted for littering.

This would mean that the Reddit OP has no idea about Bitcoin though, right? I mean: 'access the account'? Which account? There are no Bitcoin accounts.
It must be targeted at people who don't actually know this. People who think a website saying: 'here is an address with X Bitcoin on it, send us $50 to access it' isn't something out of the ordinary.

Now I kind of want to see the website..

[DireWolfM14]

If the OP's wallet turns out to be one of the same batch and it's just some trickery or worse, then we got punked just the same.  It would also mean these last 10 pages and deep discussions of ethics and mushrooms was all for nothing.
How sad that would be.  

Oh well, we can't say we didn't have fun, right..

What do you call a mushroom that buys you drinks?  

A fungi to be with!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

This would mean that the Reddit OP has no idea about Bitcoin though, right? I mean: 'access the account'? Which account? There are no Bitcoin accounts.
It must be targeted at people who don't actually know this. People who think a website saying: 'here is an address with X Bitcoin on it, send us $50 to access it' isn't something out of the ordinary.

Now I kind of want to see the website..

I also got the impression that the Redditor isn't very knowledgeable about bitcoin.  The terminology does kind of give it away.

If my imagination is serving me accurately, I picture the inside of this "wallet" as a QR code which directs to a URL, and some access code that allows you to "login" to the website.  And, it's starting to sound like there's only one QR code, not two as I would expect.  Certainly there wouldn't be a private key, but the access code makes it look like there is to a neophyte.  Another purpose the access code may have accidentally served is to confuse a neophyte into thinking it is a private key, even if he were to call a more knowledgeable friend (as has been demonstrated by these last 10 pages.)  The other odd thing I noticed about the wallets in the Reddit photos; there's no QR code for the public key.

If I've got it all pictured correctly, I expect anyone with most basic knowledge of bitcoin would recognize this as ruse.  Even the Redditor who seems to have little knowledge of bitcoin recognized it as a potential scam.

I would really like to see this website too.  At this point, I wish someone would post photos of the inside of the wallet, I'm sure there's nothing to lose.  They probably all have the same codes anyway, just like they have the same address printed on the outside.

[dkbit98]

If the OP's wallet turns out to be one of the same batch and it's just some trickery or worse, then we got punked just the same.  It would also mean these last 10 pages and deep discussions of ethics and mushrooms was all for nothing.

Hey I like good quality mushrooms, they are multipurpose food and you can make pizzas with them, plus I can destroy all evidence of it's ownership really quickly.

Very interesting!  I just went back to re-read the few replies after easternklaas made that post; it seems like all of us missed the implications of the "concealed code" he referenced.  In light of what dkbit98 found on reddit, it seems like the OP's wallet is just a ruse.

You want to hear one of my wild theories?
What if member easternklaas was actually creator and maker of this fake paper wallet, and he used bitcointalk forum just as promotion for his ''product''.
I can't prove anything and it's juts my speculation, maybe because I had a funny (detective) feeling about this subject all the time.

This would mean that the Reddit OP has no idea about Bitcoin though, right? I mean: 'access the account'? Which account? There are no Bitcoin accounts.
It must be targeted at people who don't actually know this. People who think a website saying: 'here is an address with X Bitcoin on it, send us $50 to access it' isn't something out of the ordinary.

There was probably a link or a QR code that was opening some fake exchange with account and fake balance.
Like I said before, something similar is available online for years, and they distribute links with discord, telegram, etc.
Account of this reddit guy is from 2012, so anyone can contact him to find more information about his story.

[LoyceV]

You want to hear one of my wild theories?
What if member easternklaas was actually creator and maker of this fake paper wallet, and he used bitcointalk forum just as promotion for his ''product''.

That's wild indeed
It would be a terrible "promotion", because none of this leads to anyone funding the wallet. We don't even know how we'd have to do that.

[Agbe]

I know how this sounds,.. but I swear it's true... I saw and picked up what I thought was an odd looking piece of card in a dbl sealed plastic pocket whilst walking my dogs! The card inside was wet but legible and after drying it out I discovered it was a paper wallet (I have no idea about bitcoin or wallets aside from what I have discovered over last 24hrs,... which has led me here).
The paper wallet has 0.6 BTC. Some strange things have been known to wash up on this beach.  I suspect it was stolen and dumped by an ignorant burglar. It's there any way to identify from whom it came so I can return it? It seems pointless handing it into the police if they'll just destroy it....
I am in Victoria, Australia.
Thx

So where do you keep the wallet? Is it in your custody or at where. Are you sure you saw it and collect the wallet or you hear the news. Because if you really saw the paper wallet, you would have send the image of the picture here. Ok by then probably you were a newbie but now that you can post picture, can you add the picture which you have over there? Make your story authentic by showing us the image of the wallet.

I am not sure if this is directly connected with case of OP finding paper wallet or if this was posted before, but there is very similar situation happening in Melbourne, Australia.
This appears to be scam attempt with QR code with a key to access the account with alleged 0.62 BTC which can be withdrawn.
Printed address starting with 1LMy3... has total deposits of only 0.15 BTC if you look in blockchain explorer, and coins are flagged as fraudulent or scams.
This was posted on Bitcoin reddit channel, it's called “Printkey Wallet” and this is how it looks like:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

Very similar amount and country like in case with OP.

This want the OP would have done. But the figures in the wallet are different. The OP figure is 0.6 BTC while dkbit98 figure is 0.62 BTC but the country is the same. Therefore, if I may believe, I will believe dkbit98 part of the story. Probably the OP only hear the story and came here and he saw and picked it. If really he does that he should show us the image of his.

Then the last question to everyone, I have read the different comments from users and no solution has given. So how do you do in such case? So that we know what to do next time.

[Cricktor]

... If really he does that he should show us the image of his.

Then the last question to everyone, I have read the different comments from users and no solution has given. So how do you do in such case? So that we know what to do next time.

I agree, with those fake paperwallets floating around, me too would very much like to see a picture of OP's beach finding.

I don't understand what you mean by no solutions were given. There were some possible and sensible actions suggested in case you are an honest finder and it's a true paperwallet or similar you found. One of the best that I liked very much:

• Open a thread about your finding on bitcointalk.org for some additional vivid moral and ethical discussion, show pics (or it didn't happen) but don't disclose any details that might allow the real owner to prove his ownership if that would be needed, eg. hide handwriting and unique details that possibly only the real owner knows if they exist
• Send a small amount to the paperwallet's public address and add an output of OP_RETURN "Some details for the real owner to find thread on bitcointalk.org"
• Spend that small amount you sent and return it to your own wallet, again it's nice to add another comment with an additional OP_RETURN output; you should know how to handle private keys safely and responsibly on a safe computer environment

The advantage of this approach: you don't touch or change the funding transaction(s) of the paperwallet at all.
Any real owner who cares to look "into" his paperwallet should be alarmed by the spending transaction from his paperwallet.
If the owner still has a copy of the private key, (s)he can move funds to a safe new address. If not, well, then things can get complicated.

How you then deal with the situation if nothing happens after some reasonable and generous amount of time waiting for some owner to show up or act is likely depending on one's own moral compass. I'm not going to reiterate what's been said here already.
While a found private key gives you the technical ability to move funds that can be unlocked by that private key, I believe it doesn't grant you the ownership of the funds just because you can move 'em. You didn't do anything to own those funds.

Not sure if every country has rules and/or laws how to deal with lost things and if/how/when the ownership can/may (partially) transfer to a finder if the real owner doesn't show up or object within defined time periods.

Whatever you choose, don't be a dick! Behave like you would want others to behave if you were the one who lost something. Again, YMMV...

[Pmalek]

Ok by then probably you were a newbie but now that you can post picture, can you add the picture which you have over there? Make your story authentic by showing us the image of the wallet.

OP is still a newbie. He/she has collected a decent amount of merits (for a beginner) but the account status has not changed because the required amount of activity points is lacking.

This want the OP would have done. But the figures in the wallet are different. The OP figure is 0.6 BTC while dkbit98 figure is 0.62 BTC but the country is the same.

The balance is not exactly 0.6 BTC. OP mentioned it's 0.6104...ish.

I scanned the initially concealed QR code on my phone, entered the also concealed code and was presented with a web page with info pertaining to a btc balance of 0.6104...ish.

I don't think easternklaas is interested to discuss this matter any further. It's been a week since the account was last seen online. I guess we will never find out what he found on the beach (assuming the story is true). Case closed... for now.

[easternklaas]

So you won't believe it,.. I was walking my dog yesterday,. I came across another paper wallet! This time I took a photo after I pulled it from the seagrass. What are the chances? Have I come across some secret BTC honey hole? What if this one has more than 0.6BTC in it?
Again, I placed the wallet on my demister and carefully unfolded it when it was dry enough. Again, folded origami fashion and stapled, concealing one of the QR codes and a secret code. I couldn't believe my luck! Someone must surely be missing these wallets!?
Pulled 'Shantaram' off the shelf, flicked open to the last page,... the damn paper wallets are identical!! All numbers, QR codes,.. exactly the same! I have photo's of the two paper wallets and will try send them to someone on here as I can't seem to be able to attach the pics to this post.

Rewind about 2wks,.. I did some basic research on the .com site printed on the wallet and noticed it was only a new website and that it has been given a 99.6% chance of it being a phishing website and extremely unlikely to be authentic. But for the sake of a good story I didn't want to let on to you all after all the interest this find had generated. It was after discovering this that I decided to put the story to bed and retire the wallet to Shantaram.  I had, upon finding the first paper wallet, scanned the QR code to be guided to what looked like a completely genuine website, following the links to identify a balance of 0.61xxx? btc,.. which I misquoted here deliberately to maintain a modicum of secrecy. I can't actually even remember now the exact balance,.. but equated it using online btc calculators to be around USD$20k. Scanning the QR code now leads to a dead page.

I checked into this chat every now and then and upon the realisation that I had been duped, thought it best to put aside my embarrassment and provide a conclusion to you all. I apologise if you feel these last 10 pages of chat has been a waste. I don't think it has,.. it's been hugely educational for me, have really enjoyed the banter and even enjoyed the mushroom jokes. I was never going to cash in my find and buy a spores car (*that's the best shroom joke I have).. Even when I initially felt I had stumbled across a windfall, ..it was never my intent to take the btc. It crossed my mind,.. but it's just not something I'd feel comfortable doing. So where does that leave me? With a basic understanding of what a bitcoin wallet is, 2 x really cool bookmarks and a rather interesting tale. Cheers guys!

[nc50lc]

-snip-

Just for the record, a paper wallet rarely has a QRCode of a URL on it
since it's basically a 'cold-storage' wallet, linking a website for "whatever the reason is" doesn't makes sense.
Even the print-format of paper wallets from online paper wallet generators do not contain URLs (do not use them online though).

Usually, it's just the private key, and then the public key or the address.

[LoyceV]

I have photo's of the two paper wallets and will try send them to someone on here as I can't seem to be able to attach the pics to this post.

Feel free to email me: LoyceValenzuela@gmail.com. With your permission, I'll upload the images to my site, and post them here.

[Pmalek]

I am now pretty certain that it's a scam. Whoever keeps leaving those wallets around surely expects that someone who knows about bitcoin will find them. Once they do, they will get curious, scan the QR codes, and be redirected to some sort of fake exchange that will welcome them with a decent-looking balance. Once that happens, the site will ask them to make a deposit for whatever reason. Security deposit, tax payments, etc.

Finding one paper wallet seems odd but finding the same wallet twice is surely a scam in the making. The fact that the site where the QR code takes you is brand new just confirms that theory.

Full disclosure: OP PMed me to send photos of the paper wallets via email. I declined and suggested that photos can be posted on Imgur and the links can be posted in the thread or he can PM me them if he wants to. Now that LoyceV has shown an interest in taking a look, that's even better. I am sure the wallet contains no private keys so it's safe to post them publicly.

[LoyceV]

Yep I'm happy for you to post the photos i took of the wallets I found.

I took the liberty of cropping them a bit (there were other thumbnails visible on the screenshot). This is what I received:




(click for larger size, or click right > "Open Image in New Tab" to view the full size through Bitcointalk's image proxy)

This is the address:

1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

Funds moved out of this address on August 29, 2022.
I'd like to know if those funds came from victims who fell for this scam. If it actually works for the scammer, we may see many more scams like this!

[Agbe]

(~)

This two stories, easternklaas and dkbit98, which of them is the real story? And if the fund was moved on the 29th of August then the wallet found in the seashore or beach is useless because the owner has transferred the coins to another Wallet and thrown the old wallet, or the founder of the wallet did it. Then another question might be asked. When did he found the wallet? I am not an expert on this issue but I am learning to Know it. Mostly how the case is handled.

[LoyceV]

This two stories, easternklaas and dkbit98, which of them is the real story?

Probably both.

My take:

• Someone setup a scam site
• They dropped printed access to the site on several beaches
• I didn't check the site, but I expect it to ask people to deposit
• Once deposited, their money is gone
• The same address was funded and emptied several times
• I don't think this ended yet, so the same address might get more funds from victims.

@Agbe: Please shrink your quote.

[Cricktor]

Well, as of now the address 1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE had 46 incoming transaction with a total of 0.10656742BTC. By end of August all remaining funds have been withdrawn.
Bloody scammer of noobs or greed benighted folks...


BTW, what's the purpose of the metal paper clip. Leaving rusty marks?

[dkbit98]

I am now pretty certain that it's a scam.

Can you remember by any chance who was the first guy in this topic to say this fake paper wallet is a scam?  

So you won't believe it,.. I was walking my dog yesterday,. I came across another paper wallet! This time I took a photo after I pulled it from the seagrass. What are the chances? Have I come across some secret BTC honey hole? What if this one has more than 0.6BTC in it?

I would suggest that you take this fake paper wallet to your local police station in Australia, so they can take fingerprints and see who is really planting this ''seeds'' in your area.
He made a bunch of them, and there is no chance someone is doing this by chance, this is most likely deliberate scam attempt.

Rewind about 2wks,.. I did some basic research on the .com site printed on the wallet and noticed it was only a new website and that it has been given a 99.6% chance of it being a phishing website and extremely unlikely to be authentic.

Can you please share the full domain name of that .com website?
EDIT: Never mind, I found it.

BTW, what's the purpose of the metal paper clip. Leaving rusty marks?

He probably printed bunch of same copies and used paper clip to hold them together.
I can't find any records of that .com domain, so he probably invented something that doesn't exist to make it look more legit.

This is how they look when they are freshly printed and planted, no water or rust yet:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

[LoyceV]

I would suggest that you take this fake paper wallet to your local police station in Australia, so they can take fingerprints and see who is really planting this ''seeds'' in your area.

I don't think they search fingerprints for littering, nor for a scam attempt without a known victim.

[dkbit98]

I don't think they search fingerprints for littering, nor for a scam attempt without a known victim.

easternklaas could be a potential victim of scam attempt, and other people as well.
What are the chances that he finds the same wallet two times, and other people to report exact same thing on reddit?
If they don't take fingerprint evidence, at least they can warn people someone is trying to scam them like this with fake bitcoin wallets.

[LoyceV]

at least they can warn people someone is trying to scam them like this with fake bitcoin wallets.

I just don't think this is worth the attention compared to other risks.

[dkbit98]

I just don't think this is worth the attention compared to other risks.

How do we know all the risks of this scam, when we don't even know the full story yet?
Scammers could actually create new website with that domain and lure people do send them bitcoin (in fake exchange), to be eligible for withdrawing fake 0.6 BTC.
I said before that similar tactics was used in fake discord giveaways in last few years.

[DireWolfM14]

I just don't think this is worth the attention compared to other risks.

How do we know all the risks of this scam, when we don't even know the full story yet?
Scammers could actually create new website with that domain and lure people do send them bitcoin (in fake exchange), to be eligible for withdrawing fake 0.6 BTC.
I said before that similar tactics was used in fake discord giveaways in last few years.

Police won't just start looking for some one based potential risk, at least that's how it would work in my country (or it did until a few weeks ago.)  Unless someone reports being defrauded, and it's specifically linked to that address, nothing is likely to happen.  Then there's the amount of the fraud; if only one person reports being defrauded for a small amount then the police won't give it much resources.  Also, it appears this scam has only netted about $2500 of bitcoin, that's probably not enough to warrant a high degree of concern.  And that's assuming the funds that moved through the wallet were scammed, they could have been put there as bait.

Besides, most police departments have much bigger priorities, and far more dangerous individuals to pursue.   

[Cricktor]

BTW, what's the purpose of the metal paper clip. Leaving rusty marks?

He probably printed bunch of same copies and used paper clip to hold them together.
I can't find any records of that .com domain, so he probably invented something that doesn't exist to make it look more legit.

This is how they look when they are freshly printed and planted, no water or rust yet:


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wuf2ke/scam_found_these_littered_around_my_suburb_in/

Not sure if it's only today, but I seem not to be the brightest candle on the cake right now. The paperwallet creator apparently used a metal paper clip for every instance of his fraudulent paperwallet. I still don't get the purpose of it. The zip bag isn't quite waterproof and the paper clip tends to rust with time and moisture exposure. Could this be deliberate to fake long exposure to elements of nature?

[DireWolfM14]

Not sure if it's only today, but I seem not to be the brightest candle on the cake right now. The paperwallet creator apparently used a metal paper clip for every instance of his fraudulent paperwallet. I still don't get the purpose of it. The zip bag isn't quite waterproof and the paper clip tends to rust with time and moisture exposure. Could this be deliberate to fake long exposure to elements of nature?

I think you're putting way too much thought into it.  It was probably done by a couple of adolescent rascals who stole all the materials from their parents, and just used what ever they had on hand to make it look legitimate.  I mean, it seems rather obvious that it's a phishing trip but it looks like a real amateur attempt to me.

[easternklaas]

Yep I'm happy for you to post the photos i took of the wallets I found.

I took the liberty of cropping them a bit (there were other thumbnails visible on the screenshot. This is what I received:

https://loyce.club/other/easternklaas1.jpg

https://loyce.club/other/easternklaas2.jpg
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This is the address:

1LMy3vemjaA46SATjZp9FfVSkUA8QiYjgE holds 0.01528957BTC.

Funds moved out of this address on August 29, 2022.
I'd like to know if those funds came from victims who fell for this scam. If it actually works for the scammer, we may see many more scams like this!

Thanks for cropping LoyceV 

[Pmalek]

Can you remember by any chance who was the first guy in this topic to say this fake paper wallet is a scam?  

Nope, no idea. I can't remember. 

I would suggest that you take this fake paper wallet to your local police station in Australia, so they can take fingerprints and see who is really planting this ''seeds'' in your area.
He made a bunch of them, and there is no chance someone is doing this by chance, this is most likely deliberate scam attempt.

He can try but I don't see it going anywhere. The police surely has a very limited knowledge about bitcoin and trying to get them to understand that this is a scam where the goal is to trick people into depositing on a fake website isn't going to be easy. One of the things they will ask is were you scammed and did you lose money? OP wasn't. Is someone out to scam you or do you have reasons to believe it's an attempt to steal from you? Do you have proof of anyone being scammed? And the answers are again negative.

[Inwestour]

We agree on all points in this particular case, however the thing with this particular private key found on the beach by the OP is that it is a physical object represented in a paper wallet form. Whoever the original owner is or who their successors are, they have lost a physical object that used to be in their possession somewhere and somehow. Hopefully, that's not their only backup, they will discover sooner or later that it's missing and move the coins elsewhere. 

I also have backups and I think they are in a safe place and I confess I have not checked if they are in place for a very long time. I just rule out the possibility that they could disappear from there, because it's not easy to get to them and therefore I hope that they are stored there safely.

Yeah, that's a good point. I also have a number of back ups stored off site, as everyone should. These backs ups are obviously highly secured and incredibly unlikely to end up on a beach somewhere (not to mention that no single back up is enough to compromise any of my wallets), but at the same time, I obviously don't check on these back ups every day. It is possible, however unlikely, that I would lose one of my back ups and not realize for a period of weeks. There is no telling how diligent or otherwise the true owner of these coins might be, and it could very well be months or even years before they realize that their paper wallet is lost.

By the way, it's a very good idea to divide the backup in such a way, that no one can use it if somehow it is found. I will definitely fix this point soon.

[BlackHatCoiner]

By the way, it's a very good idea to divide the backup in such a way, that no one can use it if somehow it is found. I will definitely fix this point soon.

The most proper way to do this is with Shamir Secret Sharing Scheme. For example, you can choose to split your money into 5 seed phrases, 3 of which are enough to recover the money, and hide them all in different places. This is better than Multi-Sig, because you don't need every seed's master public key.

In any case, don't divide one seed phrase in multiple parts, you're most likely going to lose money.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The most proper way to do this is with Shamir Secret Sharing Scheme.

No, it isn't. Shamir's is poorly implemented and has a number of problems which makes it a bad solution, as detailed here and here. A better solution is to either use one or more complex passphrases, or use multi-sig.

This is better than Multi-Sig, because you don't need every seed's master public key.

Which is a trivial problem to overcome in an m-of-n multi-sig simply by backing up n minus m of the other master public keys along with each seed phrase/master private key. Plus multi-sig brings all the advantages of a standard implementation with no single point of failure.

[BlackHatCoiner]

No, it isn't. Shamir's is poorly implemented and has a number of problems which makes it a bad solution, as detailed here and here.

Hadn't read the risks. Thanks.

Plus multi-sig brings all the advantages of a standard implementation with no single point of failure.

Right. SSS requires to reconstruct the secrets in one device. Multi-sig, on the other hand, on [up to] m devices. Would it be a bad idea to represent a master public key as a phrase? To overcome the problem more properly, without SD cards or USBs that contain the n-m master public keys, and without writing down the base58-ed master public keys (as they're prune to human errors and takes more time).

[o_e_l_e_o]

Multi-sig, on the other hand, on m devices.

Well, not necessarily. You can reconstruct a multi-sig wallet on anywhere between 1 and m devices; it's just safer not to do it all on a single device.

Would it be a bad idea to represent a master public key as a phrase?

There's certainly nothing stopping you, but I guess you would have to weigh the risks of making a mistake writing down a Base58 master public key, versus the risks of incorrectly transcribing your Base58 key to a phrase and doing something non-standard which would be more difficult to recover from. I prefer the first option with meticulous double checking - write it down in Base58, double check it, and then recover from your written down key and check it all matches up.

[UnfortunateSon]

Well if you're wondering how the scam works like @Cryptosize, I can explain it as I fell for it.

Like the OP I'm a crypto-noob living in Melbourne. A little less nooby as I did open a Binance account last year to help my son retrieve profits from some staking he'd done late 2021 when we were in what retired futures traders like moi call a dead cat bounce.

Anyway, after I'd retrieved his $140 I decided to tip in c.$1000 in BNB, ETH, IOTA and one other (can't remember - ADA? Cardano? Matic?)

So yesterday I was walking along Bell St Coburg and after seeing the third of these 'bright shiny objects', thought I'd investigate.

Brought it home, logged into https://paymetic.online/ with the requisite credentials, transferred the required USD92.55 in ETH and waited for my 0.62BTCBTC to land in my Binance account.

A couple of asides for those still following:

• I obviously don't have the high moral standards of the OP who sought the wallet's owner. I figured if you store your moolah on a paper wallet with no traceable contact channel, you have taken a risk that lets opportunists like me in. I've done sums of money with similar levels of laxity. Comme si, comme ça
• Getting to this point in the process had taken me nearly two hours [I said I was a noob, okay?]. I considered USD12k reasonable reward for my effort and risk.

Anyhoo, the upshot is I end up with this message on the Paymetic transaction page:

Transaction Status:

PENDING (Awaiting Payment)

Your withdrawal will be ready for completion as soon as payment is received. And upon completion, your funds will arrive into your destination wallet within 15-30 minutes.

Please ensure you send enough funds to cover any additional network fees, as incomplete payment may result in a failed or expired transaction.

Please note: At least 10 blockchain confirmations are required for your transaction status to be updated from "Pending" to "Ready

".


and the 0.08044ETH/92.55USD gone from my Binance account, but surprise!!, no 0.62BTC deposited.

Oh, well, I've escaped many other scams in my 40 years on the internet... pretty good considering.

[LoyceV]

Brought it home, logged into https://paymeticSCAM.online/ with the requisite credentials, transferred the required USD92.55 in ETH and waited for my 0.62BTCBTC to land in my Binance account.

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

and the 0.08044ETH/92.55USD gone from my Binance account, but surprise!!, no 0.62BTC deposited.

Oh, well, I've escaped many other scams in my 40 years on the internet... pretty good considering.

A lesson in greed for only 92.55USD, you're lucky, some people pay much more for the same lesson. But still, funding scammers only encourages them to continue

Rule of thumb: if you have to pay to get paid, you're getting scammed.

[dkbit98]

Like the OP I'm a crypto-noob living in Melbourne. A little less nooby as I did open a Binance account last year to help my son retrieve profits from some staking he'd done late 2021 when we were in what retired futures traders like moi call a dead cat bounce.

I said before and I will say it again, but first time to you, report this case to police investigators or at least contact some newspaper and tell them to write a story about this.
Maybe you will connect with all the people and look security cameras for idiots who are putting this paper crap around your area.
If this scammers are not stopped they are going to scam more people, and they will again blame Bitcoin for being scammed.  
You didn't lose a lot of money, but someone can probably send them much more.

Anyhoo, the upshot is I end up with this message on the Paymetic transaction page:

I knew it scammers are using this stupid system they used to scam people in discord for years, and I said the same thing in this topic.
Cheap looking website that imitates exchange and wallet, and domain registered not so long ago, this are all red alerts.

Code:

Domain Name: PAYMETIC.ONLINE
Registry Domain ID: D326122348-CNIC
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.hostinger.com
Registrar URL: https://www.hostinger.com/
Updated Date: 2022-10-10T07:17:11.0Z
Creation Date: 2022-10-05T07:12:54.0Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2023-10-05T23:59:59.0Z
Registrar: Hostinger, UAB

Website archived:
https://archive.ph/xZoSU

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

100% open source, but you can't find the source anywhere  
Don't trust, verify.

[Pmalek]

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

Got to love how they say that other cold wallets are vulnerable to hackers because the keys are stored online. I can already see the billboards: Online cold storage solutions with hackable private key features. Who can say no to that?
At the same time, their answer is offline key storage, but there is a web-based app that is part of the mixture somehow.   

[easternklaas]

Well if you're wondering how the scam works like @Cryptosize, I can explain it as I fell for it.

Like the OP I'm a crypto-noob living in Melbourne. A little less nooby as I did open a Binance account last year to help my son retrieve profits from some staking he'd done late 2021 when we were in what retired futures traders like moi call a dead cat bounce.

Anyway, after I'd retrieved his $140 I decided to tip in c.$1000 in BNB, ETH, IOTA and one other (can't remember - ADA? Cardano? Matic?)

So yesterday I was walking along Bell St Coburg and after seeing the third of these 'bright shiny objects', thought I'd investigate.

Brought it home, logged into https://paymetic.online/ with the requisite credentials, transferred the required USD92.55 in ETH and waited for my 0.62BTCBTC to land in my Binance account.

A couple of asides for those still following:

• I obviously don't have the high moral standards of the OP who sought the wallet's owner. I figured if you store your moolah on a paper wallet with no traceable contact channel, you have taken a risk that lets opportunists like me in. I've done sums of money with similar levels of laxity. Comme si, comme ça
• Getting to this point in the process had taken me nearly two hours [I said I was a noob, okay?]. I considered USD12k reasonable reward for my effort and risk.

Anyhoo, the upshot is I end up with this message on the Paymetic transaction page:

Good to hear you came out relatively unscathed.
Not sure some of my moral standards could be called high...
A learning experience for me. I'm glad I found bitcointalk..

[dkbit98]

This was posted by zasad@ in Scam Accusations topic, but we see that Austalian police finally had to react about this scam!
I would like to think that someone listened my advice about police that I wrote several months ago about this, and I hope scammers will end up in prison for doing this.
They even mentioned Bitcointalk forum and our topic in this article written by Przemysław Ćwik




https://coinpaper.com/710/scam-alert-police-warn-of-fake-paper-crypto-wallets

[AHOYBRAUSE]

This was posted by zasad@ in Scam Accusations topic, but we see that Austalian police finally had to react about this scam!
I would like to think that someone listened my advice about police that I wrote several months ago about this, and I hope scammers will end up in prison for doing this.
They even mentioned Bitcointalk forum and our topic in this article written by Przemysław Ćwik




https://coinpaper.com/710/scam-alert-police-warn-of-fake-paper-crypto-wallets

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

[Woodie]

This was posted by zasad@ in Scam Accusations topic, but we see that Austalian police finally had to react about this scam!
I would like to think that someone listened my advice about police that I wrote several months ago about this, and I hope scammers will end up in prison for doing this.
They even mentioned Bitcointalk forum and our topic in this article written by Przemysław Ćwik




https://coinpaper.com/710/scam-alert-police-warn-of-fake-paper-crypto-wallets

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Like they say, "if it's too good to be true, then it probably is" great save there mate.

Glad police made this public as well.

Looking at the laughing emojis of the the post, clearly people never take these police reports seriously not until you a a victim to such a scam. If only we all understood that the police act on public knowledge and in this case the forum was of help in declaring this as a scam.

[Welsh]

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

Another thing; unfortunately on social medias Bitcoin thefts tend to be treated as a joke, as we're still trying to escape the idea of cryptocurrencies, and therefore Bitcoin being fake money. We're still sort of combating against that stigma.

[virasog]

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

In most cases, it may be the fault of the person owing bitcoin to lose his coins by not being serious in storing his private keys. Yes, people know that they must use hardware wallets, personal wallets and paper wallets to secure their wealth, but no one emphasizes them that storing and securing your keys is the most important thing after owing the wallet.

What a wonderful bunch of BS on that site:

Got to love how they say that other cold wallets are vulnerable to hackers because the keys are stored online. I can already see the billboards: Online cold storage solutions with hackable private key features. Who can say no to that?
At the same time, their answer is offline key storage, but there is a web-based app that is part of the mixture somehow.  

I am just surprised on the people who keep their private keys on oline cloud-based solutions. Think for a moment, that you move your funds out of centralized wallets and keep them in your personal wallets, but you are still happy to store the keys in online centralized cloud solutions. How ridiculous is that?

[Pmalek]

I am just surprised on the people who keep their private keys on oline cloud-based solutions. Think for a moment, that you move your funds out of centralized wallets and keep them in your personal wallets, but you are still happy to store the keys in online centralized cloud solutions. How ridiculous is that?

It's a combination of ignorance and inexperience. They see services such as clouds or their personal emails as safe and un-hackable environments not knowing that the data there is not stored in their local storage, but a server somewhere (encrypted or not) that multiple people have access to and many more could in case of hacks or data leaks. 

[nc50lc]

-snip-

- There is no way for you to return it to the rightful owner because addresses are anonymous in Bitcoin. Now, if the owner of that paper wallet has another backup, and he knows it's lost, he probably moved the contents of that paper wallet to another bitcoin wallet address.

This thread is essentially "solved" after a few replies starting Page10 (here's the link | then OP's reply)
The paper wallet he found is nothing but a scam and it's one of the hundreds of thousands paper wallets scattered near OP's vicinity.

[Welsh]

In most cases, it may be the fault of the person owing bitcoin to lose his coins by not being serious in storing his private keys. Yes, people know that they must use hardware wallets, personal wallets and paper wallets to secure their wealth, but no one emphasizes them that storing and securing your keys is the most important thing after owing the wallet.

I tend to not share the same view. I've found fiat filled wallets in the past, and have usually handed them into the organisation they've been left too or someone with a little more authority than myself. Same goes with private keys or seeds. If I found one, I wouldn't claim that money for myself, however there's definitely a concern on how to handle it due to the moral implications. I probably, wouldn't even check the balance, as that would have the same moral implications.

People make mistakes, and I'm certainly not expecting everyone to be a security expert. When I make a mistake in life, which is inevitable, I hope someone will be willing to help rather than to exploit that for personal gain.

[Pmalek]

People make mistakes, and I'm certainly not expecting everyone to be a security expert. When I make a mistake in life, which is inevitable, I hope someone will be willing to help rather than to exploit that for personal gain.

That's the right attitude and message. Bitcoin and crypto have enough scams on their plate already to turn away many people from trying it out of fear. On top of that, if the community is lurking and waiting to strike the moment they see a mistake, we don't really deserve the good that comes with Bitcoin. Then we shouldn't be surprised if bitcoiners are talked about in a bad light.

[Welsh]

That's the right attitude and message. Bitcoin and crypto have enough scams on their plate already to turn away many people from trying it out of fear. On top of that, if the community is lurking and waiting to strike the moment they see a mistake, we don't really deserve the good that comes with Bitcoin. Then we shouldn't be surprised if bitcoiners are talked about in a bad light.

Unfortunately, when people are anonymous it clouds their judgement. It's similar to herd mentality, in that people don't think about the consequences when they're in a group, and therefore their identity doesn't necessarily stick out as much. I'm not just talking about the consequence that they might face, but how their actions will hurt someone else, and the extent of it. So, finding a wallet on the beach or anywhere that might not have much attention drawn to it, people can sometimes become a little more greedy, but when they've found it in the public eye they're more likely to do the right thing.

This is ultimately why Bitcoin gets a bad wrap, it's easier to be anonymous, and the authorities haven't really caught up in terms of investigating like they would with fiat. So, there's a lot more scams around. Hopefully, that changes in the near future, and we get a better reputation, once there's more consequences for those that look to scam.

[gunhell16]

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

Another thing; unfortunately on social medias Bitcoin thefts tend to be treated as a joke, as we're still trying to escape the idea of cryptocurrencies, and therefore Bitcoin being fake money. We're still sort of combating against that stigma.

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

[Cryptogames999]

A friend of mine almost fell for this. He asked me and it sounded fishy but after a quick google check it was obvious this is a scam!

Glad police made this public as well.

Unfortunately, when people feel like they're getting their big break by stumbling upon a lot of money or "winning" a lot of money they tend to forget basic security measures. I've done it in the past, and I'm sure there's plenty of stories like this. Fortunately, I clocked on before losing anything, and I don't think I would've lost anything, but people that aren't quite as aware might easily fall for things like this.

Another thing; unfortunately on social medias Bitcoin thefts tend to be treated as a joke, as we're still trying to escape the idea of cryptocurrencies, and therefore Bitcoin being fake money. We're still sort of combating against that stigma.

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

This is already 6 months old thread so the real owner may be moved money or changed password, if this doenst happen then he can use that money since approaching to police is a waste of time.
I don't know whether the OP has reasearched about the wallet or not. Some exchanges had people adress for owning a wallet with them.  I hope the OP will have a positive reply.

[Pmalek]

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario?

It wasn't theft because there were no bitcoins at all. It's a scam attempt in disguise designed to make you lose your money instead.

It's a question of what is the moral thing to do if such a thing happened for real. That's where the community has different opinions. Some wouldn't do a thing because it's not their coins. Others would "give" the original owner some time and then sweep the coins to one of their addresses. But the owner doesn't even know that the clock is ticking. Some users would try to warn the owner that their keys are compromised by depositing a small sum and then withdrawing it showing they have access to the private keys...   

[m2017]

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario?

It wasn't theft because there were no bitcoins at all. It's a scam attempt in disguise designed to make you lose your money instead.

It's a question of what is the moral thing to do if such a thing happened for real. That's where the community has different opinions. Some wouldn't do a thing because it's not their coins. Others would "give" the original owner some time and then sweep the coins to one of their addresses. But the owner doesn't even know that the clock is ticking. Some users would try to warn the owner that their keys are compromised by depositing a small sum and then withdrawing it showing they have access to the private keys...   

The answer to the question from a moral point of view, the person who found paper wallet will have a difference depending on whether he has morality or not. Some will take bitcoin for themselves (immediately or after a while), others will try to tell the owner to move it. It seems to me that on this forum, most of the users will lean towards the second, because, as I think, the majority here are decent and highly moral people. I have such an opinion.

A small inconsistency. The method by which people who have gained access to the wallet may not work if the wallet owner doesn't check the balance of his wallet or does so very rarely. I mean, he just might not know about the messages sent to him. Of course, it's worth trying and you can sign the bitcoin transaction with a message for this.

[Pmalek]

A small inconsistency. The method by which people who have gained access to the wallet may not work if the wallet owner doesn't check the balance of his wallet or does so very rarely. I mean, he just might not know about the messages sent to him.

That's exactly the problem and that's why you can't say I will give that person 1 month/year to move their coins and if nothing happens, I will just take them myself. Maybe those are the keys that belong to a long-term storage and the owner won't be back to spend their BTC for another 5 or 10 years. You just can't assume that coins that don't move are definitely lost. Some certainly are, others are part of someone's future plans maybe.

[Pmalek]

Were you high when you wrote this?

Isn't that Electrum was one of the cold wallet? I had been used this for a couple of years and yet from that period of time up to now, I had never been encounter such an issues like hacking or what?

What exactly are you asking, and why is there a question mark at the end? How are we supposed to know why you were or weren't hacked? I am not sure what Electrum has to do with the quoted posts, but Electrum can be both a cold and hot wallet. Not that it matters in this situation.   

And for the op story about the paper wallet, where not so sure if this paper wallet has been return to the original owner. And if ever She found the real owner, how is that happen?

Read the thread you are commenting in, and you might just learn what all this is about. Also, use a lower dosage next time.

[Welsh]

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

Nah, I'm talking theoretically since I'm talking about the morality of something rather than this specific occasion. It was pretty much summed up that there was no theft, and some users speculated that this could've been a scam attempt, which it might have well been. However, I wanted to reference that this is actually a really difficult situation to be in, and personally I don't know what I would've done. Like I said above, I probably wouldn't have even checked if the wallet had any Bitcoin in it, which could've been a waste of my time trying to find a owner of a wallet that has nothing in it.

It would be difficult to find the real owner, which encourages people to take the Bitcoin for themselves, which again isn't ideal.

[virasog]

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

Nah, I'm talking theoretically since I'm talking about the morality of something rather than this specific occasion. It was pretty much summed up that there was no theft, and some users speculated that this could've been a scam attempt, which it might have well been. However, I wanted to reference that this is actually a really difficult situation to be in, and personally I don't know what I would've done. Like I said above, I probably wouldn't have even checked if the wallet had any Bitcoin in it, which could've been a waste of my time trying to find a owner of a wallet that has nothing in it.

It would be difficult to find the real owner, which encourages people to take the Bitcoin for themselves, which again isn't ideal.

First of all, if you did not try to check how much bitcoin it contained in that paper wallet, then what would you have done ?
You have just left the paper wallet on the beach so that any other person can find it and enjoy this free money or would you have destroyed the paper wallet making the bitcoin supply less by 0.6BTC

It would be difficult to find the real owner, which encourages people to take the Bitcoin for themselves, which again isn't ideal.

I think in such a scenario it is impossible to find the real owner of the bitcoin and it is also not our money, so whoever gets that money he can use it for charity purposes.

[Synchronice]

So in the argument discussed in this topic, OP picking up a paper wallet worth 0.6btc, is this a theft scenario? because if we look at OP's story, he wants to return it to the real owner but he doesn't know how.

And I think it will be difficult to return it to the real owner because many opportunists will pretend that the paper wallet is theirs. Then for crypto enthusiasts, we know that Bitcoin is not fake money, because it can be converted into real money, not just touched physically.

What's the point of not taking the paper wallet in this scenario? If you don't take, someone else will take. At least, OP had a kind intention at first and that's so rare that it worth to bold it.
There are ways to prove the ownership. Maybe the owner had imported keys into his wallet and would be able to sign a message to prove the ownership or maybe he would be able to prove that it was his address in another way:
Imagine, you lost a wallet but you have sent coins there from your Binance account. Owner could prove that by letting the wallet holder to safely sign into his Binance account via qr code scan.
Okay, there are ways if we truly want.

[Pmalek]

Like I said above, I probably wouldn't have even checked if the wallet had any Bitcoin in it, which could've been a waste of my time trying to find a owner of a wallet that has nothing in it.

I see no problem in checking if the wallet has any coins. I would have checked. If it was empty, I wouldn't bother trying to find who it belongs to. And hopefully, the real owner wouldn't deposit any bitcoins on it without realizing it is gone. If it was funded, then I would try to find the owner in a few different ways.   

You have just left the paper wallet on the beach so that any other person can find it and enjoy this free money or would you have destroyed the paper wallet making the bitcoin supply less by 0.6BTC

Neither one nor the other. Taking a possibly valuable item (without the intention of using it or profiting from it) isn't the same as stealing it. You are saving it from people who might have other intentions. You are also saving it from water and weather conditions that could destroy it if you just left it there. It's only stealing if you transfer the BTC to yourself or keep quiet about it without doing anything to find who they belong to.

[Welsh]

I see no problem in checking if the wallet has any coins. I would have checked. If it was empty, I wouldn't bother trying to find who it belongs to. And hopefully, the real owner wouldn't deposit any bitcoins on it without realizing it is gone. If it was funded, then I would try to find the owner in a few different ways.    

Yeah, I know a lot of users would be comfortable with that, and I'm not saying it's wrong for them to do that. I just personally wouldn't be comfortable doing that. It's almost sticking my noses into someone else's business, without having any sort of right to do so. It's hard because if you find it on a beach or a secluded area, you basically have no one to contact or give it too, and like I said even the act of giving it to someone could potentially compromise it. That's why I like the moral dilemma, it's very similar to the train track dilemma, basically whatever you do or don't do has some sort of consequence.

If it was at an event, you'd normally just give it to the event organisers, but you're kind of relying on them to be trustworthy themselves, which you can't always do. Handing it to the Police is probably your best bet, but I know a lot of users would be uncomfortable with that also.

[Pmalek]

It's almost sticking my noses into someone else's business, without having any sort of right to do so.

I don't disagree, but it's important to remember that Bitcoin uses a public ledger and everyone can stick their noses anywhere they like on the blockchain. It's built into the protocol and is an integral part of Bitcoin. My comfort zone ends where the signing keys begin. That's the thing that is supposed to remain private and which me and you shouldn't have access to. But as long as it's public info, I don't feel like I would be deanonymizing anyone or anything.

[BlackHatCoiner]

It's only stealing if you transfer the BTC to yourself or keep quiet about it without doing anything to find who they belong to.

How's being quite without moving the money stealing? If somebody owns that money, and does have a backup as well, taking it and hiding it somewhere in your place gives him the opportunity to figure out he lost the paper wallet, and that he must move the funds as soon as possible. If he doesn't own a backup, the money are donated to everyone-- in the same manner as if you burned a banknote.

Handing it to the Police is probably your best bet

The Police is the best bet? Come on guys, be more confident with yourselves. I'm sure I'd make a better try than the Police would on finding the owner. I wouldn't even trust handing over a private key in the police department.

[Pmalek]

How's being quite without moving the money stealing? If somebody owns that money, and does have a backup as well, taking it and hiding it somewhere in your place gives him the opportunity to figure out he lost the paper wallet, and that he must move the funds as soon as possible.

The act itself is not stealing. The intention of what you are going to do later might be. If you want to do the right thing or try to do the right thing, why would you keep quiet about it? The owner maybe only has that one copy. If you remained quiet, how would they ever know that someone found it?

Think of something else instead of a bitcoin paper wallet.
I find a watch on the beach. I take it home with me, put it in my drawer, and decide not to do anything about it. I might not wear the watch, I haven't sold it or exchanged it for something else, but I took possession of it and it's currently in my control.

[PrivacyG]

The Police is the best bet? Come on guys, be more confident with yourselves. I'm sure I'd make a better try than the Police would on finding the owner. I wouldn't even trust handing over a private key in the police department.

Agreed.  There are so many ways this could go wrong.  And then you think about it more and by giving it to a stranger, be it even a police man, you are just letting some body else take the funds and pretend it was not them.

Imagine giving a piece of paper to a police man and telling them you found it somewhere.  They will either laugh and throw it away or, if police is corrupt like in my country, they may even steal the funds on it.

I mean, Bitcoin is one of the few things you can steal any time and pretend you have not.  Give me a Private Key with some balance and after I take the funds out, how do you plan to prove it was me?

The conclusion of this story is probably that unless the owner of the lost Paper Wallet proves it was theirs and gets their funds back, there is no moral way of solving this problem.

In fact.  Even by taking the Paper Wallet with good intentions and not sweeping funds off it you are still possibly doing something wrong.  What if the initial owner finally remembers where the Paper Wallet may have been and goes back to the shore looking for it.  Then they find nothing on the beach because some body else took it beforehand.

So you leave it there.  But then some body else will likely take it.  This can go so many ways.  Maybe it is a kid and they are going to rip it apart.  Maybe it is some body who finds out it contains value and sweeps off the funds.  Maybe they just collect waste and give zero F's about what that paper may actually be, collecting it for recycling.

So what do you do.  Do you sweep it and hold on to it until the owner eventually some how finds this thread and proves it was them?  Then what happens if the owner never comes back.  Are you allowed to use the funds through the finders keepers rationality?

Also.  If you sweep funds.  What if one year from now the owner finds their Bitcoin Address, checks it out on a Bitcoin Explorer and sees their funds are gone so they give up immediately thinking there is no way they can get that back anyway.

Like I said.  Unless the real owner gets their hands back on the piece of paper, any 'solution' is surrounded by immorality.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[n0nce]

It's hard because if you find it on a beach or a secluded area, you basically have no one to contact or give it too, and like I said even the act of giving it to someone could potentially compromise it. That's why I like the moral dilemma, it's very similar to the train track dilemma, basically whatever you do or don't do has some sort of consequence.

Maybe it is even harder than that! There is much more uncertainty of the outcome, since private key can and cannot be backed up at the same time.


We must somehow mix the trolley problem and Schroedinger's cat to get a fitting image for this problem. 'Schroedinger's Bitcoin Trolley Problem'?

[Welsh]

The Police is the best bet? Come on guys, be more confident with yourselves. I'm sure I'd make a better try than the Police would on finding the owner. I wouldn't even trust handing over a private key in the police department.

I knew that answer would probably be controversial. The thing is, even moving the private key can be a problem because when there's no way of proving or finding who owns it. The person might come back to that spot, and try to find it. So, the very act of moving it or taking it could be morally wrong. However, then you have the issue of not moving it, and potentially allowing the next person to come along, and steal it. Giving it to the police, you assume they'll have some sort of moral decency, and influence, but probably not. I mean, they probably wouldn't know what to do with it, and you've already moved the private key at that point.

I'd probably trust myself more than the police due to the fact I know that I can trust myself to never take anything from the wallet, but I'm still not confident in moving it in the first place. I only said hand it to the police because of users who might read this, and I'm not sure I can trust many people to resist the urge. It's very easy for someone to go Ah, I've had this for a year now, and no one has claimed therefore it's mine, but I don't really agree with that either. So, I'll agree it probably isn't a accurate statement, since I personally wouldn't be comfortable with moving it at all, but then am I prepared to allow someone else to steal it when I could've prevented that? Tough decisions.

This is a massively complex problem, which doesn't have an easy answer that it might appear to have.

[n0nce]

The Police is the best bet? Come on guys, be more confident with yourselves. I'm sure I'd make a better try than the Police would on finding the owner. I wouldn't even trust handing over a private key in the police department.

I knew that answer would probably be controversial. The thing is, even moving the private key can be a problem because when there's no way of proving or finding who owns it. The person might come back to that spot, and try to find it. So, the very act of moving it or taking it could be morally wrong.

That's the one reason why I even considered myself that police would be an option. Because if people look for stuff where they lost it, and it is gone, they often proceed by asking the police or the local lost & found office. But the drawbacks (trustworthiness of police officers or any human, for that manner, not to take the coins) do outweigh the advantages in my opinion.

However, then you have the issue of not moving it, and potentially allowing the next person to come along, and steal it. Giving it to the police, you assume they'll have some sort of moral decency, and influence, but probably not. I mean, they probably wouldn't know what to do with it, and you've already moved the private key at that point.

There might be one alternative: take it and leave behind a note with your contact information so the original owner can reach out you and pick it up. If this note has the same shape, size and material of the paper wallet, you don't really change the 'situation' at all. It would have the same chance of being destroyed, blown into the sea, stolen, trashed as the original paper wallet.

[Welsh]

Yeah, that's the line of thought I was operating on. That if someone was looking for it, they'd automatically go to the police station, and ask whether someone has reported any missing pieces of paper or what not. That's the only reason I automatically jumped to that conclusion. However, I guess individuals in the police force might not be trusted with that kind of information.

There might be one alternative: take it and leave behind a note with your contact information so the original owner can reach out you and pick it up. If this note has the same shape, size and material of the paper wallet, you don't really change the 'situation' at all. It would have the same chance of being destroyed, blown into the sea, stolen, trashed as the original paper wallet.

Probably a decent solution to the predicament. Although, the person may not want to be linked to the wallet, due to privacy issues. Although, I'm playing devil's advocate there. I imagine most people would be grateful that someone went into the effort. Plus, a note could be left which doesn't give too much information away to random people who happen to be passing by. Good solution if you ask me. 

[n0nce]

However, I guess individuals in the police force might not be trusted with that kind of information.

Yes, there are both the options that they don't understand the value a paper wallet can have and not take it seriously (throw it away; 'Nobody will come asking for some piece of paper') as well as the opposite: taking out the funds and being able to plausibly deny it: the finder could have unsealed it, the original owner could have moved the funds, someone else with a backup...

Plus, a note could be left which doesn't give too much information away to random people who happen to be passing by.

Exactly; you can quickly create a new email address just for that purpose, for instance.

[Welsh]

Exactly; you can quickly create a new email address just for that purpose, for instance.

Well, n0nce it looks like you solved my dilemma. Who would've thought it would've been a simple answer like that. I was quite enjoying my thought experiment. It's probably the best idea to leave a note, especially if you know that you aren't going to take anything from that wallet regardless how long. I don't think everyone that stumbles upon it will have that thought process though. I know some users would consider it a donation, and wouldn't think twice about it. Then, you probably have users like me who will overthink the process.

It does somewhat prove though that lost Bitcoin in this type of situation is actually harder to return to its original owner than if it was fiat. There's very little ways to prove you own that Bitcoin once you've lost access to it, obviously by design.

[Pmalek]

It does somewhat prove though that lost Bitcoin in this type of situation is actually harder to return to its original owner than if it was fiat. There's very little ways to prove you own that Bitcoin once you've lost access to it, obviously by design.

If we assume the right owner contacts you, there are ways to prove it's their paper wallet. The wallet was funded somehow. Most people create their own wallets and fund them themselves. Check the blockchain and see what address the coins came from.

Ask the potential owner where the coins were deposited from. Then ask them to sign a message from the address that funded the wallet. Or ask them to send you a few satoshis proving they have access to that address. If it came from a friend or an exchange, prove it. Have your friend do the same. If you used an exchange, and you can no longer use that old address, there is a transaction history. Screenshots can be faked. Live video calls where you are logged in and refreshing your payments page on the legit website showing an outgoing transaction to the paper wallet address not so much.

[Synchronice]

Giving it to the police, you assume they'll have some sort of moral decency, and influence, but probably not. I mean, they probably wouldn't know what to do with it, and you've already moved the private key at that point.

It depends on the country, for example, I wouldn't entrust this to police forces of a country that has high corruption index. I don't even think it's wiser to entrust this job to any policeman or policewoman because even they can cheat in this case without punishment, it's not a bank account after all.

It's very easy for someone to go Ah, I've had this for a year now, and no one has claimed therefore it's mine, but I don't really agree with that either. So, I'll agree it probably isn't a accurate statement, since I personally wouldn't be comfortable with moving it at all, but then am I prepared to allow someone else to steal it when I could've prevented that? Tough decisions.

This is a massively complex problem, which doesn't have an easy answer that it might appear to have.

It's not that massively complex problem. Did you post on Reddit? Did you post on bitcointalk? Let's say yes. Did anyone came up with real proof that it belongs to them? There are a lot of ways to prove if you really want to and it's not only signing a message. If no one came and you waited for weeks, months, then what's wrong if you consider that from now on, it belongs to you? You haven't stolen from someone. Someone lost it, you tried your best to find the owner but owner did least to find you, then it belongs to you. You push yourself too much, you think like you are the killer if you tried to assist wounded person but failed to escape him.

[Pmalek]

It depends on the country, for example, I wouldn't entrust this to police forces of a country that has high corruption index.

I don't think it matters. Honest individuals work in police forces all over the world and the same is true for the worse type of scum on the planet. Would you consider UK's police as a trustworthy one, for example? In that case, you might be interested in knowing that one of their officers was convicted of raping and abusing women for over 17 years. Over 20 cases of rape. Several women complained but weren't taken seriously. The police always protect their own even in such situations.

https://www.euronews.com/2023/02/07/former-british-police-officer-sentenced-for-serial-rapes

[n0nce]

If no one came and you waited for weeks, months, then what's wrong if you consider that from now on, it belongs to you? You haven't stolen from someone. Someone lost it, you tried your best to find the owner but owner did least to find you, then it belongs to you. You push yourself too much, you think like you are the killer if you tried to assist wounded person but failed to escape him.

The issue with this line of thought has been pointed out in this thread, before. In essence, the reason it is immoral is because there are a ton of scenarios where the actual owner has another copy of the keys and expects the money to still be there when they try to use those keys in the future.
For instance, this paper wallet may be one of a few backups and they may not check the integrity of those backups regularly.

[Welsh]

It's not that massively complex problem. Did you post on Reddit? Did you post on bitcointalk? Let's say yes. Did anyone came up with real proof that it belongs to them? There are a lot of ways to prove if you really want to and it's not only signing a message. If no one came and you waited for weeks, months, then what's wrong if you consider that from now on, it belongs to you? You haven't stolen from someone. Someone lost it, you tried your best to find the owner but owner did least to find you, then it belongs to you. You push yourself too much, you think like you are the killer if you tried to assist wounded person but failed to escape him.

I think it's a massively complex problem. I'd hate to be in this scenario, and in fact it's one of the reasons I didn't like helping users with their lost passwords anymore, because it's hard to prove they aren't just giving you vague details in hope you can help them get into it. If you post on social media or this forum about someone losing the wallet, you're going to get people claiming to have lost it, and some of them might be able to decipher certain information if you've included it in the explanation. The best way of doing it would be to be as vague as possible, hey guys, found a wallet this weekend let me know if you've recently lost a wallet, and from there you can kind of filter out the users that are trying a shot in the dark.

However, it's still a massively complex issue, and ultimately the decision you make could be a wrong one without adequate proof. There's not a whole lot of adequate proof if they haven't got backups, and at that point they should just move the Bitcoin to another secure address.

Honestly, I think I'd hate to be in a situation where I find a wallet. I've handed physical fiat wallets, credit cards, and things like this into the police a few times or sometimes just the establishment I'm at. For example, a restaurant because the person might come back to claim it. However, that's easy to verify. Bitcoin isn't exactly easy.

P.S for those of you planning to lose your wallets in the future, please don't. Take good care of them, because I don't want to be in this situation, ever .

[LoyceV]

P.S for those of you planning to lose your wallets in the future, please don't.

Since we're now going towards the scenario of creating anonymous email addresses to leave notes to contact the anonymous wallet owner: just write your email address on your paper wallet. That makes it much easier for everyone involved
I don't think it's going to help though, you just shouldn't lose your paper wallet where someone else can find it. And considering I've never read about it (other than trying to scam people) about it, I don't think it happens often.

The only paper wallet I could easily lose, is the one I keep in my (leather) wallet. If I lose my physical wallet from my pocket, I lose my paper wallet. My wallet has enough bank cards in there to identify me, and the encryption on the paper wallet makes sure nobody can ever take my funds.

[Welsh]

Since we're now going towards the scenario of creating anonymous email addresses to leave notes to contact the anonymous wallet owner: just write your email address on your paper wallet. That makes it much easier for everyone involved
I don't think it's going to help though, you just shouldn't lose your paper wallet where someone else can find it. And considering I've never read about it (other than trying to scam people) about it, I don't think it happens often.

The only paper wallet I could easily lose, is the one I keep in my (leather) wallet. If I lose my physical wallet from my pocket, I lose my paper wallet. My wallet has enough bank cards in there to identify me, and the encryption on the paper wallet makes sure nobody can ever take my funds.

Yeah, a bit of sarcasm from me. I was mainly interested in the moral consequences that a situation like this could present. I mean, who takes their paper wallet backup out, and about in the first place? Literally, mine hasn't left it's backup location, ever. I have no reason to move it in the future either. The only reason would be to restore the backup, and recover my coins. At which point, I'd probably move my coins into a new address, and start the whole process over.

I don't carry any Bitcoin out with me, so I guess I'm probably in the minority there. There's just no need for me too, it's not like I live in a big city, which has loads of shops willing to accept Bitcoin. So, I'm currently mainly using it as a store of value or a way to just be in control of my money rather than using it as a currency per se.

[aylabadia05]

P.S for those of you planning to lose your wallets in the future, please don't. Take good care of them, because I don't want to be in this situation, ever .

It is possible that this case happened because the owner did not realise when removing the contents of the wallet (which we often put in our trouser pockets) when he wanted to pay for something he bought that the paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC fell.

I think cases like this can be a very valuable lesson for anyone who stores Bitcoin assets in paper wallets.
When we want to go on holiday or want to celebrate important moments with loved ones abroad, first make sure all the items we carry. Don't let the BTC that we store in the hardware wallet also slip into it.
If you want to bring Bitcoin assets, just the ones stored in the mobile version of the wallet because we are not moving house, but just a holiday.

[Welsh]

It is possible that this case happened because the owner did not realise when removing the contents of the wallet (which we often put in our trouser pockets) when he wanted to pay for something he bought that the paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC fell.

You probably shouldn't be carrying your seed or private key around with you. I'm a big advocate for that, however if you are you should probably think about carrying something a little more substantial, and have it tied to you rather than having it in your wallet where it can fall out undetected or blow away. A piece of hefty metal, would probably be the better option. Although, again I'm not a fan of carrying your seed around you. I'd much rather a hot wallet, that you have to remember the passphrase too, which only has a small amount on it. Enough, for what anything you might want to purchase during your travels.

You don't technically need to carry your backup or your main funds with you. Take a hot wallet, and that'll take care of most things.

[Pmalek]

It is possible that this case happened because the owner did not realise when removing the contents of the wallet (which we often put in our trouser pockets) when he wanted to pay for something he bought that the paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC fell.
...
When we want to go on holiday or want to celebrate important moments with loved ones abroad, first make sure all the items we carry. Don't let the BTC that we store in the hardware wallet also slip into it.

Whoever is that careless and carries $14-15k of digital assets with them in a trouser pocket into which they constantly put their hand or other objects, doesn't deserve those coins. That's not the way to handle bitcoin or a seed backup. And if you are going on a holiday, don't take everything you have with you. Prepare a few UTXOs in advance and use a combination of mobile wallets, paper backups, laptops, and even digitally saved backups (just for your short holiday). But don't stick a piece of paper somewhere where you could easily lose it.   

[LoyceV]

You probably shouldn't be carrying your seed or private key around with you. I'm a big advocate for that, however if you are you should probably think about carrying something a little more substantial, and have it tied to you rather than having it in your wallet where it can fall out undetected or blow away. A piece of hefty metal, would probably be the better option. Although, again I'm not a fan of carrying your seed around you. I'd much rather a hot wallet, that you have to remember the passphrase too, which only has a small amount on it.

I prefer both: a hot wallet for small purchases, a (BIP38 encrypted) paper wallet for the rare occasion of impulsively buying something more expensive (this hasn't happened yet). Obviously, this shouldn't be your only backup. If you lose it, your funds are still safe. If you need it, you have it. And you don't need to keep it in a hot wallet for years.
The paper wallet is the size of my bank cards, I won't easily lose it.

You don't technically need to carry your backup or your main funds with you.

Agreed

Whoever is that careless ~ doesn't deserve those coins.

People do dumb shit all the time. Just yesterday, I found $1000 because someone posted his private keys. I've read stories of people forgetting €50,000 in a taxi. It happens.

[Pmalek]

People do dumb shit all the time.

I don't know if you remember a case from a few years ago when a young woman was bragging on Facebook of her new credit card. She made a video where she showed the card to her "friends" and "followers". Both sides of the card! I think you can guess what happened next. She made a second video soon after begging people to stop buying stuff using her card details because apparently they got stolen somehow. It's a big mystery.
I don't think she knew at the time that she can call the bank to have the card blocked.

[LoyceV]

I don't know if you remember a case from a few years ago when a young woman was bragging on Facebook of her new credit card.

I've seen it. It's a typical case of "stop making stupid people famous".
Compared to crypto, creditcards are terribly insecure. It's amazing those things still exist. I've never shown videos of my creditcard on Facebook, and yet, it has been abused.
Banks do anything they can to earn money. Just last week, I read that Dutch banks agreed that certain applications (like parking, or entering a train) can always use the NFC-chip on your bank pass, even if you disabled it! I'm so glad my crypto doesn't move without my explicit consent.

[aylabadia05]

It is possible that this case happened because the owner did not realise when removing the contents of the wallet (which we often put in our trouser pockets) when he wanted to pay for something he bought that the paper wallet containing 0.6 BTC fell.

[snip]

You don't technically need to carry your backup or your main funds with you. Take a hot wallet, and that'll take care of most things.

It's absolutely true that it can take care of a lot of things. I agree and I will remember @Welsh. That incident and what came before it can provide a valuable lesson especially for me personally when travelling.

Whoever is that careless and carries $14-15k of digital assets with them in a trouser pocket into which they constantly put their hand or other objects, doesn't deserve those coins. That's not the way to handle bitcoin or a seed backup. And if you are going on a holiday, don't take everything you have with you. Prepare a few UTXOs in advance and use a combination of mobile wallets, paper backups, laptops, and even digitally saved backups (just for your short holiday). But don't stick a piece of paper somewhere where you could easily lose it.

Things that should be well taken care of can even be careless like that. A leather wallet that only has fiat ATM cards or other cards in it can fall, let alone a paper wallet. For me, what the OP did was a good initiative even though the owner of the paper wallet made a fatal mistake.
At every opportunity we always warn ourselves to keep valuable assets such as Bitcoin well because they are not display items.

[BlackHatCoiner]

It does somewhat prove though that lost Bitcoin in this type of situation is actually harder to return to its original owner than if it was fiat.

How so? If someone loses their paper wallet, you can open threads in Internet boards. Or send some funds there with a message, describing where and how you found it. There's absolutely no manner to verify who's the one who lost their cash on the street, unless the physical wallet with the identity is also dropped.

[Pmalek]

How so? If someone loses their paper wallet, you can open threads in Internet boards. Or send some funds there with a message, describing where and how you found it.

The owner might not browse those internet boards or be much active on bitcoin-related discussion boards at all. You can take some funds out and return the same coins with a message, but the owner might not be looking at what is happening on the blockchain. The coins can be someone's long-term cold storage that will only be accessed years down the line.

[Welsh]

How so? If someone loses their paper wallet, you can open threads in Internet boards. Or send some funds there with a message, describing where and how you found it. There's absolutely no manner to verify who's the one who lost their cash on the street, unless the physical wallet with the identity is also dropped.

Fiat, as in physical notes are usually accompanied with a wallet, although that's not always the case. Obvoiusly, if you just find notes on the street without anything else, it's impossible to find the true owner of those notes. However, Bitcoin wallets I wouldn't expect to find in a normal wallet (physical wallet, that stores money, and cards), since I don't really associate it with that.

If you get robbed in the streets, what do they ask for? Phone, and wallet right? So, putting your Bitcoin wallet, especially a seed in a physical traditional wallet like that would be insecure, even if carrying this information in the first place is insecure, its more so by carrying it in items that typically are targets to be stolen.

So, someone might store their wallet in non traditional ways, like a capsule on their key ring or someting along those lines. When you lose this, you'll have no accompanying information, which effectively measures it as useful as losing cash with no additional information.

Also, yeah I know several people that don't actually know Bitcointalk.org exists, despite being invested in Bitcoin. So, there's that. As well, social media tends to be avoided by a certain demographic within the Bitcoin community, especially those that value privacy so Reddit, and Twitter start getting eliminated there.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The owner might not browse those internet boards or be much active on bitcoin-related discussion boards at all. You can take some funds out and return the same coins with a message, but the owner might not be looking at what is happening on the blockchain.

Maybe. But maybe he does. In any case, cash found on the street is not better in any way.

However, Bitcoin wallets I wouldn't expect to find in a normal wallet (physical wallet, that stores money, and cards), since I don't really associate it with that.

And I neither expect from people to carry paper wallets on their physical wallet. It doesn't make sense to me. Paper wallets are backups. You don't carry backups on your bag, unless you move away. If you want to spend bitcoin outside your place, use your mobile phone with a lightning wallet installed.

[Welsh]

Maybe. But maybe he does. In any case, cash found on the street is not better in any way.

Right, and in the same way I don't expect my cash to be returned to me when I've lost it. A lot of the time I don't even bother going to check since I've already expected it to be taken. However, that entirely depends on how you lost it. As mentioned above, if it's in a wallet then it makes sense to try to recover it, and you can go back to area since smoeone might have handed it in to the organisation or whatever.

And I neither expect from people to carry paper wallets on their physical wallet. It doesn't make sense to me. Paper wallets are backups. You don't carry backups on your bag, unless you move away. If you want to spend bitcoin outside your place, use your mobile phone with a lightning wallet installed.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. I'm not sure what situation would present itself that you're carrying the very backup to your Bitcoin wallet physically with you. I'd be much more inclined to believe people were carrying a non encrypted hot wallet on their phones, than their seeds. However, generally I've often been surprised by users methods. A lot of users will ignore the initial warning that pretty much every piece of software has about storing your seed in a safe place upon generation.

[Lida93]

It does somewhat prove though that lost Bitcoin in this type of situation is actually harder to return to its original owner than if it was fiat.

How so? If someone loses their paper wallet, you can open threads in Internet boards. Or send some funds there with a message, describing where and how you found it. There's absolutely no manner to verify who's the one who lost their cash on the street, unless the physical wallet with the identity is also dropped.

I watched a movie where a certain rich man's son was kidnapped, and when the news was flash on TV stations about the incident, this rich man started receiving messages from multiple groups and persons demanding for a ransom claiming to have kidnapped the man's son whereas the actual kidnappers haven't contacted the man for any request yet. The man got confused not knowing who could be the real kidnapper. In same vein, should the founder of the wallet decides to open a thread on any internet or cryptocurrency boards/forum and got to entertain multiple persons claiming to be owners to the missing wallet and especially in a situation where there's no means of identification that was found in the physical wallet in which the paper wallet was found in. This subject now becomes rigorous and disturbing to knowing who the real owner is. Sometimes the real owner may not be using any of the socials, maybe!

[BlackHatCoiner]

In same vein, should the founder of the wallet decides to open a thread on any internet or cryptocurrency boards/forum and got to entertain multiple persons claiming to be owners to the missing wallet and especially in a situation where there's no means of identification that was found in the physical wallet in which the paper wallet was found in.

Yes, because there are manners to protect yourself. If I ever found a paper wallet on the street, and checked it had funds, I'd register to some Reddit / Bitcointalk / other forum with a pseudonym under Tor, and describe what happened. Strangers couldn't find me, and if the real owner noticed the post, he could provide enough evidence for me to hand it over (e.g., the town we both live in).

[Welsh]

Sometimes the real owner may not be using any of the socials, maybe!

Right, however to avoid other users trying to claim the wallet you'd have to be as vague as possible, and ask questions that realistically only the person that lost it would know. Even then, you probably can't verify it to the point that there's no doubt in your mind that someone owns it. I guess it depends on how it's find, and if there's any accompanying information with it, but thinking of the worse case scenario it could still be rather difficult to prove beyond a shadow of doubt that someone owns it. If they don't use the platforms you use, that just makes it a ton more difficult.

You'd have to be prepared to hold onto the wallet indefinitely, but the question remains are you still making it too difficult for the person who lost it, because you've taken the action of actually taking the wallet (despite being for safe keeping) away from the area that it was lost in.