5,000 BTC from Satoshi-Era Wallet Moved

[larry_vw_1955]

Not any easier than to do the exact same thing with cash, and in fact, far more difficult since there remains a permanent and immutable record of the fact you have done this. Centralized exchanges and payment processors would very quickly report you even if you tried to do this.

Well yeah, if the only way to own bitcoin was through centralized exchanges and there was no such thing as self-custody then sure. but people dont have to keep their bitcoin on centralized exchanges and they don't need payment processors for paying someone using bitcoin. they only need those things as endpoints, aka, cashing out. but even cashing out can be done without them as I'm sure you already know.

I actually think the limit should be higher, maybe in the region of $1,000, especially over time as bitcoin continues to gain value against the rapid inflation of the dollar. But better to get a low limit passed first and then work on increasing it.

the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

[nullama]

~snip~
the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

They are different taxes though. You never pay tax twice.

When you receive money from work, you pay income taxes.

If you buy Bitcoin with that money and then immediately sell at the same price (let's ignore exchange fees for now) you don't have to pay any more taxes.

You only pay taxes when you sell Bitcoin (or any other asset) at a higher value than what you paid for it. That's capital gains tax. You're paying on the extra money that you have.

You only pay on the extra money, not the initial one that's already taxed.

[yazher]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

With this kind of topic created every single move by the old holders is really not good. Imagine, you have your own bitcoins and you decide whatever you want from it and some random people start talking about it. Anyway, they can't do anything anyway but just watch the movement of the transactions, and whatever they want with their bitcoins is totally fine because in the first place they've been holding for so long and the time finally comes for them to sell some of it and leave their life with their earnings.

[noormcs5]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Anyone who is holding bitcoins won't sell them for so long, and won't dump them altogether in the market. Secondly, fundamentally nothing is changed in bitcoin.
Bitcoin price is volatile and old investors already know it. The price will never be a reason for them to dump the coins when they know that bitcoin will reach another all-time high.

[kamvreto]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Anyone who is holding bitcoins won't sell them for so long, and won't dump them altogether in the market. Secondly, fundamentally nothing is changed in bitcoin.
Bitcoin price is volatile and old investors already know it. The price will never be a reason for them to dump the coins when they know that bitcoin will reach another all-time high.

the old holders will only hold back until their ultimate target is achieved. Before the main target is achieved they only look at accommodating bitcoins that are sold in the market at a cheap price. 5,000 BTC is still relatively small, there are many more bitcoins on hold. when they start selling some of the bitcoins they hold, maybe the crypto market will get a little shaken up.

[o_e_l_e_o]

the limit should be unlimited. if someone has already pay taxes on money they put into bitcoin, why should they have to pay taxes on it again? eventually the government wins and gets everything.

I do agree. As nullama has pointed out, with bitcoin you are paying capital gains tax on your profits as measured in USD, at least in the US anyway. And you can claim tax relief on your losses. But all that hinges on the fact the IRS treats bitcoin as an asset. It would be far better to treat bitcoin as what it is - a currency - at which point these taxes don't apply.

However, we will have much more success in excluding small value transactions from these ridiculous tax laws in the first instance than trying to exclude all transactions.

[Henrobakkara]

Such moves often come from old wallets. Every time there is a price bottom or top, someone is bound to transfer some amount of bitcoins and everyone will start talking about it. But I don't think it means anything. It sounds as ridiculous to me as the 0666, 0777 or 0888 transaction theory. I don't see any manipulation in it.

Exactly. Is there not supposed to be activity in the network? should all Bitcoins just remain in the wallets for the value to continue to rise? I believe people overreact when such wallet movement happens like the market is going to crash, I would have said if this happened when the market was at ATH, meaning someone wants to dump but I don't see that here.

[larry_vw_1955]

They are different taxes though. You never pay tax twice.

When you receive money from work, you pay income taxes.

Money just changes hands from one person to another. Everytime that happens, it gets reduced by the amount of taxes that has to be paid which means the government is reposessing that money over time. If you take $1000 and follow its path from person to person, you'll see that over time, it goes to 0 because of taxes being taken out of it every time it changes ownership. And eventually that $1000 is all gone.

some people may say that is fine. but i kind of think like once taxes are paid on that $1000 then taxes should never need to be paid on that particular $1000 ever again. just my opinion.
 

If you buy Bitcoin with that money and then immediately sell at the same price (let's ignore exchange fees for now) you don't have to pay any more taxes.

You only pay taxes when you sell Bitcoin (or any other asset) at a higher value than what you paid for it. That's capital gains tax. You're paying on the extra money that you have.

You only pay on the extra money, not the initial one that's already taxed.

You can have unlimited capitals gains and taxes on them but you can't deduct unlimited capital losses you can only deduct $3000 per year no matter how much you lost. so its not a fair thing. even with carryover rules, etc. still not fair.

[Piesel]

Old addresses with a lot of funds are not that big a deal. If they have 1 like that they probably have more.

Not something to worry about the trading volume of BTC is on the order of 1.5 million coins a day. Having a few thousand more dumped into it is not something to worry about.

-Dave

We have seen this many times before and we will see more of this going forward, old Bitcoin wallets will keep on transacting because you don't expect them to leave their Bitcoin dormant forever, as most people who hold Bitcoin way back have a long-term goal to it some may place 10 years holding plans other can also have 20-year holding plans to at whateverr time the owner feels comfortable to move their Bitcoin around it's the choice and their money and it is sure ther made huge profits already considering the entry time and price.

5,000 bitcoins is not that huge to create any panic or discussion here, 1.5 million Bitcoin are traded daily and that is enough volume to accommodate any old wallet balance whenever their get offloaded into the market. I don't panic when I see such old. wallet balance movement only newbies do that and as for old members who are already experienced with such actions, I can only get excited that at least the dormant long abandon wallet is still active and that gives us the chance to take hold of then if the wallet owner injects those Bitcoin into the market, but at the moment we can't confirm if the Bitcoin we're transferred to an exchange wallet or a privately own cold wallet.

[o_e_l_e_o]

but i kind of think like once taxes are paid on that $1000 then taxes should never need to be paid on that particular $1000 ever again. just my opinion.

Which would result in tax revenues falling to zero unless there was a steady stream of new money being printed and entering circulation, leading to excessive inflation.

so its not a fair thing. even with carryover rules, etc. still not fair.

It's not fair at all. Which is why bills to exclude any amount of bitcoin from this system should be supported.


These early wallets moving, while causing a bunch of newbies to panic, obviously didn't affect the markets that much since the price of bitcoin is up 20% over the last week or so.

[Ivartheragnarson]

i think it's nothing to consider. everyone have their right to move their bitcoin among where they wish. bitcoin was created for that , not for holding in a wallet. bitcoin can be used as money. so people use it as money.

[Webetcoins]

We have seen this many times before and we will see more of this going forward, old Bitcoin wallets will keep on transacting because you don't expect them to leave their Bitcoin dormant forever, as most people who hold Bitcoin way back have a long-term goal to it some may place 10 years holding plans other can also have 20-year holding plans to at whateverr time the owner feels comfortable to move their Bitcoin around it's the choice and their money and it is sure ther made huge profits already considering the entry time and price.

5,000 bitcoins is not that huge to create any panic or discussion here, 1.5 million Bitcoin are traded daily and that is enough volume to accommodate any old wallet balance whenever their get offloaded into the market. I don't panic when I see such old. wallet balance movement only newbies do that and as for old members who are already experienced with such actions, I can only get excited that at least the dormant long abandon wallet is still active and that gives us the chance to take hold of then if the wallet owner injects those Bitcoin into the market, but at the moment we can't confirm if the Bitcoin we're transferred to an exchange wallet or a privately own cold wallet.

I agree that it is not really a big deal to see these wallets moving, and people who are overreacting to these are the same people who sell their coins anytime there is a bad news. I would say that do not make any moves or trades based on what you have seen in the market, that doesn't make sense to me, if you are going to make any changes then you should make those changes based on what the fundamentals show and not what the daily news or media is putting out. Wallets move all the time, it is a common thing, even 5000 btc moving is common these days if you look at the big wall street companies like microstrategy, that is why we shouldn't be really shocked about it at all.