BITCOIN IS NOT A STORE OF VALUE

[NotATether]

Oh and I missed OP's arguments and talking points in the torrent of posts about the energy monster.

NotATether: Most governments are dinosaurs when it comes to technology, the US government is no exception.

So based on your think tank analysis of "most governments", they don't understand bitcoin?
Maybe they don't understand it the way that I do, but they are intelligent enough to stop any potential threats to their current financial system when it pertains to online digital dollars. The internet relies on ISP's, who are regulated by government oversight - if the government wants to strangle the life out of bitcoin, that's within their realm of power - as amply shown with current AML/KYC laws. Internet service providers are more than happy to comply since they work together. Indisputable facts.

Governments learn only what they need to know for their job. That's why they figured out how to regulate cryptos and analyze output trails instead of the more technical details such as actually sending the coins to another address without using some stock wallet.

NotATether: Governments do not know the economics about cryptos and the only knowledge pertaining to them that they have is from their crypto specialists, who are more knowledgeable about how to trace crypto owners than how it actually works:

Again, underestimating and attempting to undermine the people in charge of the current system just demonstrates your lack of understanding and ignorance of the people in charge. They are alot more dangerous and in control than you realize. You are making snap judgements based on what exactly? One thing I learned is to never underestimate anyone, ever. Especially governments. You are basically telling me and the world by posting here that "most governments" don't understand economics? Sure they do, they created this flawed system we use today (by design i might add), that you still continue to be a part of and utilize.

Did I downplay their competence in studying cryptocurrencies for national security purposes? No. Did I say that most government [heads] do not know the technicalities of crypto? Yes I did. You can't expect people who think in terms of the old system, to understand the new one.

That's why they have staff positions for cryptocurrency experts and specialists.

Governments collectively might not understand the code, or how each block is determined, but they understand very well that without power or internet that bitcoin = nothing. Seriously, you are making me feel like I'm teaching astrophysics to a penguin. First let's cover some baby steps, I understand everyone learns at a different pace here so I'll go slow..

Look at you, just repeating exactly the same talking points of @LegendaryK. I already answered that in other places. How about zoning out to this board and look at all the threads on the 1st page about this subject?

Who invented the internet, and for what primary use?
The internet indeed began as a typical government program. The ARPANET, designed to share mainframe computing power and to establish a secure military communications network. You honestly believe that they didn't understand or envision the potential when they created the backbone on which your cryptos operate and where we are having this argument right now? Let's not forget about the NSA, yeah your friends that spy on all your communications and log everything you do online... You going to tell me they don't understand bitcoin either, when in fact it was one of their own mathematicians (Glenn M. Lilly) that actually created it. - search patent 6829355. My honest opinion to you, and majority of others arguing opinions based outside of logic is that you might think about spending more time researching history and facts rather than news articles that perpetuate foolish beliefs.

Once again, you are completely missing the point: It is not the directors and managers to study the bitcoin system, but their analysts. Stop pretending the government is an all-seeing eye of Sauron, because if it were, they wouldn't have gotten into this economic mess in the first place.

NotATether: Same reason why Tesla dumped their cache - because they need hard cash for liquidity, nobody there will accept payment on Bitcoin.

- Flawed logic.

The government/federal reserve can print as much currency as they want... liquidity isn't an issue when you control the issuance of currency into the system. There is nothing to stop them from doing this at will.

If you look carefully, my logic is sound - I said that governments won't pay each other with Bitcoin which is why they desire hard cash for that. It has nothing to do with printing money and you're just going off a tangent here.

NotATether: Sure we do. Most of us own bitcoin because we believe in its economic principles. You can mock and ridicule us now, but you will be the one shaking your head when Bitcoin's price moons again and you missed out on it (for the $1 trillion market cap is the not the peak of its market adoption).

Except for the fact that I accurately predicated the exact price range and the exact time (exactly 3 days before in one instance, and then 7.5 months out from the date I uploaded it mooned, 2 x in a row with 100% success and accuracy), case and point:

https://youtu.be/eqZHzbP2Fe4

Make sure to check the date of upload, compared to the bitcoin price 7.5 months from that exact date... Tell me what I missed exactly. Explain please, teach the class here...

Past performance does not predict future results. My quote demonstrates the macroeconomic trend of Bitcoin long-term, not some price target Bitcoin will hit at some date.

Still believe I don't understand bitcoin, and I don't know what I'm talking about? I was arrested by the government (a few 3 letter agencies) for my work with reverse engineering firmware and giving countless people (globally) free untraceable internet access... Also, I began mining bitcoin in 2008-2016 and am a Network Architect in distributed systems from 2001-current... What credentials do you have to be lecturing anyone about crypto's, let alone governments?

On the contrary, I believe you are maliciously misinforming people about Bitcoin, to the point where you're saying that it's going to collapse just because a few governments can't afford their electric bills (LOL). You know what, go tell them to subsidize electricity costs if you are really convinced of your conclusions.

Don't you think I'm some basement guy, on the contrary. I am a FOSS software developer. And one of the consequences of being involved in FOSS is that you will guard he collective freedom of all, jealously, from those who seek to put us in darkness after we have seen the light.

If you're out here giving people "free and unfettered internet access", then why are you here trying to gaslight their free and unfettered access to the international banking system?

Let me say that again. I am dead serious about fighting misinformation and FUD, direct to a technology that has the capacity to help people like you, yet you close your eyes to it.

Me: I hide my gold at an undisclosed location, or in my house... Please, tell me where it is... confiscate it and it's yours. bitcoin is on a PUBLIC LEDGER... How many people know I have gold if I walk into a coin shop or buy from an individual on the street, or sell to an individual on the street? NONE.
...

This is irrelevant because the Fed doesn't seize people's gold anymore. I told you they used to seize gold in the past, and that Bitcoin in the present cannot be identified to any person (by any entity) until it reaches some KYC site like an exchange.

In other words, bask in your gold if you want, but if you can't appreciate the significance that a breakthrough form of money brings it people then that's on you.

That's not even touching on the subject of crypto-currencies already being reverse engineered (and in fact they ARE!), you think that hacks and exploits that you haven't heard about don't exist? I personally know they do because of my line of work I have seen first hand individuals and exchanges alike have their crypto wallets completely emptied! They now have NOTHING, and nobody to call to get it back!.. Still not grasping simple laymans term concepts here? You own NOTHING until it is in PHYSICAL FORM.

Please prove your gigantic theories by carrying any of the following attacks against the Bitcoin network:
- A 51% attack
- A large-scale Sybil attack
- A malleability attack (try to scramble unconfirmed transaction IDs en masse)
- A Craig Steven Wright attack (I.e. become a dickhead and sue all Bitcoin developers for BTC that doesn't belong to you, claim to own the whitepaper, try to block people from using Bitcoin Core or Bitcoin using an army of shills)
- Or everyone's favorite, an Electric attack - try to shut down all miners by coercing the utilities to do so.

The fact that not a single one of these attacks has caused significant damage to Bitcoin (if they were even attempted) is a testimony to the resilience of the Bitcoin network.

Take for example I have a girlfriend in real life, and you have a long distance girlfriend...

The good news is that Bitcoin is decentralized money and not a dating platform  

Me: Lets simply ignore all those without power, and in alot of third world countries intermittent power outage and complete power failures have become more commonplace, but because you and I have electric, that must mean we all do... HAHA! Bitcoin cannot be censored?

Clearly you have never lived in one of those countries, otherwise you'd see that even with intermittent power outages my friends and I are using cryptocurrencies just fine.

Of course there are no miners here. Nobody's going to mine Bitcoin in a place with unstable power supplies.

Again, I use to be a bitcoin miner... The miners can refuse transactions for any number of reasons. If I don't want to take your transaction, I don't have to. However, if the government decides to come in and take over all the mining operations and centralize the entire project like they have been doing in various fashions, you now are at a loss for words or able to argue completely. If the government doesn't want it to take place (online), then it won't!

Mining is a zero-sum game and follows an economic game theory model, which means whoever censors transactions on their own blocks will lose money. Other miners will happily include them with their tx fees. You should know that Marathon attempted to do exactly what you are talking about. They had to quit, because they were losing tons of money from self-inflicted sanctions. To miners, Greed > Censorship is the relation that forms one of the pillars to the network security.

Lets quickly look up how fast and frequently the governments and banks in those countries are buying physical precious metals... And lets compare to their crypto holdings.. ouch, speechless now? Gonna tell everyone the government doesn't understand or is somehow naive?

I have already explained my position in previous replies and see no benefit to repeating it herenif you're just going to distort it.

Anyone can buy gold... It's dependent on supply and demand, gold actually has real world uses and utility (intrinsic value) outside of being a monetary instrument. Bitcoin has no utility other than to store information, it has no intrinsic value.

If you believe that bitcoin was used only to store information and is "worthless", why did you mine in the first place? Surely, you yourself cannot be brainwashed, manipulated as you claim I am? I sense a certain hypocrisy in your posts.

Closed circle of adoption? Explain then how the entire world knows what it is and has sought it out since it was first discovered...

Because other forms of money did not exist back then, and in recent decades it is slowly becoming harder for the average person to buy physical gold (digital wallets with gold tokens do not count).

Please, don't waste my time again by taking up space on my computer screen with your nonsensical arguments.

You know, there is a "Close" button on the right of this browser tab, and all your pains will come to an end...

My assessment based on your level of understanding is that you suffer from what is known as "cognitive dissonance":

Sometimes people hold a core belief that is very strong.
When they are presented with evidence that works against that belief, the new evidence cannot be accepted.
It would create a feeling that is extremely uncomfortable, called cognitive dissonance.
And because it is so important to protect the core belief, they will rationalize, ignore and even deny anything that doesn't fit in with the core belief.

That seems to describe your attitude here, wildly reflecting the debate in different angles, from declaring that governments can force all miners to shut down to your arrest to "girlfriends" to mining and then to ancient civilizations using gold and finally concluding that the person who is patiently trying to explain to you why Bitcoin is a store of value must be mentally defective.

Christ, I think I broke JayJuanGee's posting length record in the process.

[Wind_FURY]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s

Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

Ser, read the Origins of Money by Nick Szabo, https://nakamotoinstitute.org/shelling-out/

I believe that proves the fact that it DOESN'T MATTER if the Store of Value asset is a metal, pieces of glass, or a SHELL if the social conensus was formed that the Store of Value asset is valuable, or not. It can be debated that Bitcoin would have been worth close to ZERO if it wasn't adopted by the drug dealers of the Dark Markets. But it was, and it has censorship-resistance components that they need which made it valuable for them, and if it was valuable for them, the value surged when many more of them adopted it, and when the value surged, it also has become valuable to US.

social consensus of money is about agreeing on a medium of exchange (not store of value)
that medium can be twigs, shells, pebbles, gold, paper, or crypto

The history as described by the research of Nick Szabo tells it differently, or some of it. The "assets" that were used as Medium of Exchange were collectibles, and because they were Stores of Value, they became the preferred Medium of Exchange. Because how could there be a social consensus develop around an "asset" to be a Medium of Exchange if the asset itself is not a Store of Value? Why would I trade my drugs with you if your Medium of Exchange is a common rock? If the rock has a Store of Value component, like a diamond, we can talk.

[budi691]

One of the keys to determining the value of a currency is its supply and demand. If the supply of a currency is excessive, it will cause high inflation. Meanwhile, if the supply of currency tends to be low,
Bitcoin has long been considered an alternative to fiat money. Namely, a medium of exchange and a store of wealth that is able to survive in the long term and whose value is not prone to be eroded by time.

[franky1]

The history as described by the research of Nick Szabo tells it differently, or some of it. The "assets" that were used as Medium of Exchange were collectibles, and because they were Stores of Value, they became the preferred Medium of Exchange. Because how could there be a social consensus develop around an "asset" to be a Medium of Exchange if the asset itself is not a Store of Value? Why would I trade my drugs with you if your Medium of Exchange is a common rock? If the rock has a Store of Value component, like a diamond, we can talk.

limited utility tribal communities of a small subset era are what you/he describe
i included kingdoms, empires and government controlled versions..

i think you forget to realise that many cultures of forms of kingdoms, empires and governments have existed for THOUSANDS of years

greeks had coins. romans, etc

oh and diamonds are not worth the PRICE you pay.
consumerism 100 years ago made useless diamonds appear as "valuable" when they done consumer advertising of suddenly suggesting that women want diamond rings as a wedding band and those rings needed to be worth over a few months salary. which then set the diamond speculation and increase of underlying value

..
its like restaurants thinking muscles escargot(snails) are a delicacy..
did you know that in the 1900's they were food for the poor.

as for the native american utility of shells(clams)
the colonists latched on to the medium of exchange.. becasue over thousands of years. native americans used it as one.. what you are forgetting is the development pre colonists that established the medium of exchange SoV

so here goes
midstate tribes were no where near oceans. where by having something rare(not found common in normal territoriality) was first seen as something worthy of showing off/displaying.. no money value at first. just something nice to have/own look at.
something unique decorative that is not common in that territory

which then grew into trading it. which then set the value based on how much effort must have gone into the previous owner obtaining it.
which when there were enough shells to make necklaces and trade of shells became common . then they set a SoV of a min value

yep even bitcoin took over 12 months (well into 2010) to start that ball rolling too

most non kingdom/empire/government money. starts off as rare items to display show off/ talk about at campfires.. that then drives demand of another person wanting it as a novelty so they can tell stories.. and then barter begins
then after barter, a set medium of exchange when one item becomes the popular one everyone prefers to use as a medium of exchange.
then to alleviate riots/squabbles fights and battles over disagreements of price. a set min value is then set by consensus or just common agreement of tradition
price is the random barter where some cant agree and can lead to disagreement and fight..
value is the min level all can agree, that sits at the bottom as a minimum guarantee/wall/limit..
and then speculate above that depending on demand/supply to add a premium ontop of value if its really wanted/desired.. where the premium is the price

[Wind_FURY]

The history as described by the research of Nick Szabo tells it differently, or some of it. The "assets" that were used as Medium of Exchange were collectibles, and because they were Stores of Value, they became the preferred Medium of Exchange. Because how could there be a social consensus develop around an "asset" to be a Medium of Exchange if the asset itself is not a Store of Value? Why would I trade my drugs with you if your Medium of Exchange is a common rock? If the rock has a Store of Value component, like a diamond, we can talk.

limited utility tribal communities of a small subset era are what you/he describe
i included kingdoms, empires and government controlled versions..

Limited if compared to empires and kingdoms, yes, but it still makes the point that collectibles, and assets as Stores of Value according to social consensus, were wanted, were desired, and were used as Mediums of Exchange because they had value. I believe Bitcoin is taking this path.

i think you forget to realise that many cultures of forms of kingdoms, empires and governments have existed for THOUSANDS of years

I didn't forget. Medium of Exchange that's issued, endorsed, and their value assured by a Government is also desirable, and for that it has become something valuable. A path impossible for Bitcoin. Because it's not backed by a Government, I believe Bitcoin has to have value as a Store of Value first if it's to be a Medium of Exchange.

oh and diamonds are not worth the PRICE you pay.

I agree, and I merely used it as an example to make a point. It's either the common rock, or the diamond to trade for the drugs. Which one would the drug dealer accept as payment?

[Agbe]

_without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

I disagree with you. It is not all electronic equipment are made up of silver or gold. I do not think anyone has seen bitcoin physically except the digital copy. For that, bitcoin would have existed without those two liquidity. I have seen a TV that made up of wood, although the screen, the panel and cables are made of other materials, probably those parts of the equipment we're manufacturered by silver and gold but not sure. Bitcoin, silver and gold all these liquidities have their value before human so if you compare them you might waste your time. All have their own value in life. Value is added to bitcoin when the peer to peer demand is very high and at that process the price of bitcoin will be very high therefore at point of the trading the price of bitcoin will be high for the benefit of all. Though everyone thinks different way on bitcoin. As it is noe, bitcoin has more values among the three things I mentioned..

[justdimin]

It is not all electronic equipment are made up of silver or gold. I do not think anyone has seen bitcoin physically except the digital copy. For that, bitcoin would have existed without those two liquidity.

Yeah, not all electronics are made of silver or gold because that was too expensive already but some do only need other components and they can still be able to work fine. Btc is a digital currency so it doesn't have a physical form although there are some btc fan boys who are minting a physical coin with a btc logo on it and then they engrave private keys there or maybe some kind of a qr code for it to work like a physical version of btc.

I think the op is saying that btc should give credits to gold and silver because if not because of them, there will also be no btc but I think the title of his thread is different but anyway I disagree with that.

[JaimeAlejandro]

This analysis has a fundamental flaw: marginal analysis. It was proposed by Carl Menger and it explains why essential materials to life as oxygen, or water (the chemical combination of oxygen and hydrogen), has none or almost no economic value, meanwhile things that are apparently superfluous cost a lot of money.

Gold and silver are industrial materials. Gold used to be a monetary store of value, but electronic devices it’s turning it into an industrial raw material. So, as it already happened to silver, gold is losing its monetary store of value status gradually.

It has happened along history with materials that traditionally had both, an industrial and a monetary value, with time, they gave up its monetary value in favor of other things that had no real other use. It is frequently heard the argument, “why this or that should cost so much money? It has no use!” The explanation is marginal analysis.

Bitcoin has no other use but storing value or using it as medium of exchange (much more with second layer protocols). So, Bitcoin although it has been created artificially, cannot be corrupted, it is scarce, fungible, divisible, and has all the properties to become the perfect money and store of value.

Now it needs time for everyone to realize this is its intrinsic value to become generalized used as such. The same happened to many other things used as money along history. Nothing becomes money right away on a clap of the hands. It’s an evolution. BTC has barely 13 years. Nevertheless, it is quite astonishing how fast it has already been adopted by many.

Of course, if we do not have electricity, computers, or electronic devices, BTC might not lose its value: it would just disappear. But in that case, BTC will not be your concern. Do you think life as we know it is sustainable without computers, modern communications, and electronic devices? 500 million people over the crust of the Earth would be barely viable. If you’re not within the globalist elite, don’t count yourself between the survivors. As it would be the case if all of a sudden we hadn’t oxygen, which has no economic value, you wouldn’t need to worry about BTC anymore. You wouldn’t need to worry about anything at all. At some point, it will be the case of absolutely everyone, when death knocks on our door, even for those who have risen to the high ranks of the global elites.

[Wind_FURY]

_without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

I disagree with you. It is not all electronic equipment are made up of silver or gold. I do not think anyone has seen bitcoin physically except the digital copy. For that, bitcoin would have existed without those two liquidity. I have seen a TV that made up of wood, although the screen, the panel and cables are made of other materials, probably those parts of the equipment we're manufacturered by silver and gold but not sure. Bitcoin, silver and gold all these liquidities have their value before human so if you compare them you might waste your time. All have their own value in life. Value is added to bitcoin when the peer to peer demand is very high and at that process the price of bitcoin will be very high therefore at point of the trading the price of bitcoin will be high for the benefit of all. Though everyone thinks different way on bitcoin. As it is noe, bitcoin has more values among the three things I mentioned..

He was merely making a debate that a commodity's utility as a value proposition is what's giving it its value, therefore making it an ideal Store of Value. Bitcoin has its own value proposition too. Censorship-resistance. It's what's giving it it's utility as an ideal Store of Value for the internet. Bitcoin as a Store of Value has its pros and it's better than their Gold, their Silver, or their other valuable metals like Platinum as an unseizable form of money.

[cornhodlr]

Re: BITCOIN IS NOT A STORE OF VALUE

 BITCOIN IS THE ECONOMIC VALUE.

Wait and see after another decade later.
You will definitely regrets feel shame for your own foolishness.

Bitcoin is Encrypted Monetary System and Money itself.
Fiat Paper is not money but monopoly currency. 

Hi,what do you think about the early merge mined altcoins like namecoin and i0coin and future values/usecases?How do you see Ixcoin doing in the near future or is it worth buying?Thanks.

[Rigon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s

Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

We have seen the popularity of Bitcoin increasing day by day. Maybe a time will come when people will conduct all transactions in this Bitcoin.Gold, silver and all metals people may stop investing in them for a while, but no one can move away from Bitcoin.Very soon we will see more popularity of Bitcoin and editcoin will be valid in every country.The existence of Bitcoin will never be destroyed but rather its existence will be more spread out.

[Jeger.Kiting]

Is someone trying to trick you into thinking gold is a store of value?

I also think the same as you, maybe he just listened to the video and was influenced by what was said in the video, I think they made the video to make bad news about Bitcoin because he doesn't like the existence of Bitcoin. I do not understand what was in his mind, so he thought too far before Bitcoin was created, I think this is just a classic joke who wants to bring Bitcoin down.

[Oasisman]

BITCOIN IS NOT A STORE OF VALUE

Well, Bitcoin is a currency, like fiat currency where you can use to purchase a service or a product. Bitcoin became a store of value as people discovered how fairly volatile Bitcoin is in a long term perspective.
Whether you like it or not, Bitcoin has it's own value not as much as Gold's market cap, but it has value.
No reason for a debate or an argument here. Bitcoin is simply the digital gold.

[hd49728]

The history as described by the research of Nick Szabo tells it differently, or some of it. The "assets" that were used as Medium of Exchange were collectibles, and because they were Stores of Value, they became the preferred Medium of Exchange. Because how could there be a social consensus develop around an "asset" to be a Medium of Exchange if the asset itself is not a Store of Value? Why would I trade my drugs with you if your Medium of Exchange is a common rock? If the rock has a Store of Value component, like a diamond, we can talk.

Bitcoin has multiple utilities and store of value is one of its utilities.

If a person owns Bitcoin, then that person can use it for many purposes: investing, trading, payment method for grocery, merchant shopping and so on. Sometimes, because of many use cases the person will not clearly clarify what he uses Bitcoin for. Utility creates value and Bitcoin has it. Deflationary creates value and Bitcoin has it too.

Even if we accept Bitcoin as a store of value or disagree with this statement, fact is fact and people naturally use Bitcoin in their own ways. Some consider and use it as a store of value. Some others don't but in general, Bitcoin adoption is increasing that is good for Bitcoin investors.

[lucates]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s

Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

The store of value means an item acquired should, over time, either be worth the same or more. Some people think bitcoin will be the global store of value. Others think it's a kinda myth. Whatever it's, in my opinion, bitcoin in the hands of the right person can do amazing things. Have programmers and cryptographers who can use bitcoins underlying protocol to create magnificent things such as crypto currencies. So what gives bitcoin value depends on your qualifications.

[wahyuagung26]

Is someone trying to trick you into thinking gold is a store of value?

I also think the same as you, maybe he just listened to the video and was influenced by what was said in the video,  I do not understand what was in his mind, so he thought too far before Bitcoin was created, I think this is just a classic joke who wants to bring Bitcoin down.

Maybe he has been influenced by the videos that are made and uploaded to social media or someone else has influenced him and maybe he starts to have a little doubt about Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies.

I think they made the video to make bad news about Bitcoin because he doesn't like the existence of Bitcoin.

Actually this is their ultimate goal, and everyone who doesn't like Bitcoin even they hate it and this is one way to influence people who are new to Bitcoin to follow their directions not to like Bitcoin.
actually what is on their mind people who hate Bitcoin, Maybe they don't learn about Bitcoin.

[CryptSafe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n41GPPhLkhI&t=30s

Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

I strongly believe you might be tricked in believing and making such comment about Bitcoin and I also believe you have no idea Bitcoin being tagged the "digital gold". Now tell me if it could be tagged such a name then why can't it have value?. As it may please you to know that Bitcoin is now a global phenomenon and has gained recognition more than you are. I strongly advise you do research properly before jumping to conclusion and even making comments which you are not sure of.

[witcher_sense]

Keeping in mind the most important factor, without gold and silver, all electronic equipment wouldn't exist = bitcoin would not exist. Computers, phones, tv's, etc ALL require silver and gold to be manufactured.

The value of gold and silver wouldn't exist, or at least wouldn't matter, if there were no humans reasoning about what to consider valuable. To put it another way, value is always a matter of subjective thinking of every single individual. Bitcoin has certain credible characteristics because some individuals decided it is worth mining it and holding, and vice versa, some individuals think it is valuable because it has those credible characteristics. It is the self-reinforcing positive feedback loop that influences the minds of all people: those who already understood bitcoin's value proposition and those who aren't yet. In my subjective opinion, bitcoin is a store of value because its monetary properties meet the definition of "good" money, but also, which is more important, historical data clearly shows that it behaves like a good store of value. This opinion is based on observable facts, not feelings or beliefs, and for these reasons, many rational economic actors also consider bitcoin a reliable store of value. Bitcoin being a store of wealth is not a shared illusion, it is a logical conclusion from all factors related to bitcoin.

[PSCQQSCQQP]

It's amazing the level of bias from the members on these boards. You are all on a shared delusion. How long has bitcoin existed? Has it existed more than 100 years? 200 years? How long have you been alive?

Case and point gold and silver were here long before, and will be here long after both you, and bitcoin (the man made invention) are gone.

Governments can and will squash it if they want and there's no amount of arguing that will save it from becoming put under so much regulation that nobody will use it.

Store of value doesn't shed 40% of it's value... That's indicative of a ponzi scheme. How about lets talk about the trading bots that ultimately control the market, or am I a conspiracy theorist for pointing this out?

I expect completely biased individuals to jump in and try to rationalize all the ways that I'm supposedly wrong. But the fact is you all cannot argue with history, and what world banks and governments are stockpiling. Don't forget, they can blow you up, at that point your monetary pipe dream theories all go out the window.

[BTCat]

Bitcoin is more than an empty number.
The value is in the rights and opportunities it opens for you to purchase goods and services to improve your life.

A token is like the entree ticket for an entertainment parc. You already paid but the value is in the experience when you hand over the ticket.

I can write the number 1 on a piece of paper 100 times and declare it to be money. The value will only go up when more people acknowledge
the value of the paper and start using it for trading.