Is this merit system abuse

[Pmalek]

this post that senior member of the platform mentioned was actually one of them
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411499.msg61111015#msg61111015

I have already offered my view on this situation in my post above. It's interesting how you are avoiding to answer questions people asked you, and other forum users are the ones that are finding examples of bad merit habits when this is your thread and you are supposed to do that.

So far, nothing has been shared from your end. But according to you, you have observed many cases where legendaries abuse the system, and there are plenty of high-quality posts by newbies that aren't getting merited. But there isn't a single example that you have linked to.     

[1714502732]

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[1714502732]

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[1714502732]

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[PowerGlove]

The merit system works well "on average". A system doesn't have to be perfect, for it to be useful. Yes, there are (surely) people abusing/misusing it and there are various biases and inconsistencies in how people give merit, but those (probably unavoidable) things don't take away too much from the benefits of the system. I wouldn't worry about it OP, if you're genuinely here to participate (and not just rank up an account so you can sig spam), then just try to post thoughtful stuff and merit will eventually start flowing in your direction.

[Sandra_hakeem]

this post that senior member of the platform mentioned was actually one of them
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411499.msg61111015#msg61111015

I have already offered my view on this situation in my post above. It's interesting how you are avoiding to answer questions people asked you, and other forum users are the ones that are finding examples of bad merit habits when this is your thread and you are supposed to do that.

So far, nothing has been shared from your end. But according to you, you have observed many cases where legendaries abuse the system, and there are plenty of high-quality posts by newbies that aren't getting merited. But there isn't a single example that you have linked to.      

Aleast, if he wasn't planning to mention anyone or give some illustrations, he'd make his points solid -- at least that's how I see it. We have made a whole voluminous post just to keep with -- either the exaggerations on how legends get well-fed with underserved merits OR the belittling of other low-ranking members, of their incompetency on the forum's operational etiquettes and we're all fed up with this tiny, flimsy excuses.
OP, This is a thread already; sorta looks like yours?..that's just to show you that people had conceived the idea and felt the pressure of imbalance, thereby making LOST (in their eyes) the essence of meritocracy. I believe you've got same problem dude. I ROSE THE TOPIC MYSELF but, I realized that this whole merit stuff ain't perfect, NOTHING IS....

Sandra 💇

[The Sceptical Chymist]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2992259.msg30856756#msg30856756

In my opinion, you're right about that post--it didn't deserve 50 merits.  On the other hand, that example is the rare exception, not the norm on bitcointalk.  Members low-ranked and Legendary rarely get nearly that many merits from a single sender even if the post is above average.  In addition, unless you're a merit source (or have tons of earned sMerits) you wouldn't be able to send 50 merits in one shot all that often, so it's not as though there's an epidemic of over-meriting mediocre posts.  It's not even a problem.

On top of that, and as others have stated, people are basically free to distribute merits however they see fit.  There's merit abuse to be sure, but Theymos isn't even concerned about it, so if I were you I'd forget about it.  

There are a lot of merit sources and others who are trying to help lower-ranked members out, but there are so many of them and many times their posts are just typical bounty hunter crapola OR they're posted in sections where nobody ever reads anything and few merits are given.

You have to keep in mind that this is a forum with millions of members and only so many merits to go around.  Sometimes things seem unfair, but from what I've seen everything balances out over time.

Edit:  OP, I only gave you 1 merit for your 2nd post because I'm all out of sMerits, and Theymos hideously and repeatedly refuses to up my monthly allocation, thereby retarding my ability to reward posts such as yours.  Please complain to him if you would, but don't tell him I asked you to.  *shh*

[lovesmayfamilis]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2992259.msg30856756#msg30856756

In my opinion, you're right about that post--it didn't deserve 50 merits.

These 50 merits were given in 2018, so little time has passed since the introduction of the merit system. Many threw merit at each other at that time to try out how it worked. But honestly, it takes talent to criticize posts like this from a hundred years ago and come here and judge. 
OP, it's been said a thousand times that the one who cares the most about merit gets the least. And the more you criticize injustice, the more difficult the road to the ranks will be for you. 
Yes, you don't like it a lot, so what? Are you here to change the world? Get used to it.

[Lordsilvabtc]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2992259.msg30856756#msg30856756

In my opinion, you're right about that post--it didn't deserve 50 merits.  On the other hand, that example is the rare exception, not the norm on bitcointalk.  Members low-ranked and Legendary rarely get nearly that many merits from a single sender even if the post is above average.  In addition, unless you're a merit source (or have tons of earned sMerits) you wouldn't be able to send 50 merits in one shot all that often, so it's not as though there's an epidemic of over-meriting mediocre posts.  It's not even a problem.

On top of that, and as others have stated, people are basically free to distribute merits however they see fit.  There's merit abuse to be sure, but Theymos isn't even concerned about it, so if I were you I'd forget about it.  

There are a lot of merit sources and others who are trying to help lower-ranked members out, but there are so many of them and many times their posts are just typical bounty hunter crapola OR they're posted in sections where nobody ever reads anything and few merits are given.

You have to keep in mind that this is a forum with millions of members and only so many merits to go around.  Sometimes things seem unfair, but from what I've seen everything balances out over time.

Edit:  OP, I only gave you 1 merit for your 2nd post because I'm all out of sMerits, and Theymos hideously and repeatedly refuses to up my monthly allocation, thereby retarding my ability to reward posts such as yours.  Please complain to him if you would, but don't tell him I asked you to.  *shh*

Thank you so very much, I appreciate your advice and your kind gesture, I've seen it in reality that most of those Merit happened long ago, Except for this one which happen recently via https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411499.msg61111015#msg61111015

But the truth is, I wasn't really here to disrespect the higher rank members, that wasn't the intentions and I'm serious about it, As I newbie I believe in learning, and I'm sure anyone who can track my activities on the platform will realized this. And once more thank you so much for the merit.

And those who feels offended, I'm sorry. Forgive my manners in which I reacted or spoke out about the higher rank members, I respect you all.

I also want to thank everyone who has always stick around, offering me advices and guidance whenever I post a question, it's such a big prevailed for me being here. Once again thanks for everything you all offered, I'm amazed and grateful. Thanks

[JollyGood]

Without going in to specifics of the case you mentioned, overall in short the merit system is broken and needs a complete overhaul. I have said that before recently in a different thread and I still feel the same way. If you continue looking through the forum you will find many cases of ridiculous amounts of merits being awarded for what seem to be posts that did not deserve it and of course you will see a pattern where certain members will be sending and receiving merits between themselves over a period of time. It happens.

Again, without going in to the specifics of the case you mentioned, maybe onlookers especially newbies looking at merits being awarded for highly questionable posts will probably cite anything from sending merits too generously to merit abuse. As for the awarder, there will be a defence of saying they saw fit to it and you cannot really argue with that view either.

If memory serves correct there was also a time when merits were being questioned I recall a merit source saying it was better to award merits before the merit source was refilled and maybe theymos was quoted (I need to see if I can find the link to be sure).

Anyway, unless there is open merit abuse it is highly unusual to question anybody about why they awarded merits to a particular member or post and the awarder is under no obligation to explain why they awarded 'x' merits to a particular post. This can be seen as something highly problematic especially for newbies because they are finding their feet in the forum when they see some members receiving merits for posts that in their opinion simply did not deserve it but on the whole I think the merit system needs a re-think by theymos to bring it more up to date as it is not fit for purpose.

You did nothing wrong by bringing your questions here. You have just as much right to post here with your questions, concerns and even complaints as much as any other member in the forum.

Having said all that, welcome to the forum, I hope you have a great journey like I and so many others have had here and I look forward to reading your comments and positive contributions.

You are currently a Jr member, I hope you increase your ranks in the coming weeks and months working your way up to Legendary in a short space of time  

Please note this post is not intended to disrespect anyone, I'm just a curious newbie on the Platform, who wants to know as much as possible on how the forum operate. So if you feel offended, I'm sorry as it's not my intentions to.

• Reading from various section of the platform I discover that higher rank members are always meriting themselves, despite the level of low quality post, why newbies ends up with nothing irrespective of how informative their post is. This system isn't really favorable to Newbies.

• Reading from post history of some of Higher rank members, I discover a lot of low quality Contents, yet they rank up so many merits, Same goes to some newbies with so much positivity, full of information on their content, such post might just end up getting one merit, Why legendary members with low quality Contents, rank up so many merits. I'm wondering why it's so

• Having gone through so many sections of the platform, One can easily discover that there are some group of people that keeps meriting various post, This are the higher rank members who are always at the forefront in seeing newbies grow and increase their rank. And a big thank you to them all

After my observation, i concluded that most higher rank members are selfish with the merit system.

Also few days ago, I came across a post, With random low content, yet one of the higher rank member sent out 30 plus merit to such a low content post. And I'm wondering, what's going on, this prompt this to my head.

" the merit system has been greatly abused by some higher rank members "

[SweetL0u]

If there is abuse of merits, I definitely missed it 
Being new to the system, I'm still learning it but I feel like it's fair to a certain extent.

Cheers,

[NotATether]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2992259.msg30856756#msg30856756

I've seen a lot of low quality response like this from ranked members getting so much merit, but a newbie with far more, recieves nothing, My target is to learn as much as I can, so I can also impact someone else, so with all due respect, your Observations and conclusion is totally wrong 100% Respect to you.

Oh, the Altcoin Discussion board. I'm having a hard time finding posts there that are worthy of even 1 merit, mostly because they are buried in an avalanche of zero-value speculation posts - and I'm sure most other merit sources also think like that. (and for the record, I almost never merit any of the speculation boards with the exception of Wall Observer thread sometimes).

The last time I tried to scout for posts in that board was about a month ago. Filtering just takes way too long and kills me before I've even found a lot of posts.

[Stalker22]

~

It is interesting that someone who registered on the forum less than a month ago has such a negative attitude toward senior members and the merit system. I'm not judging you, but I do not think you are being completely honest with us. You are a new member, so you may not be aware of the fact that we have an established and well-functioning merit system here. Why are you so angry about it? What are you trying to accomplish by posting this? I think that if you want to be respected, you should try to be respectful. If you want people to listen to your ideas, try being diplomatic. You may not agree with the merit system, but it is the way this forum works.

We were all newbie members once, and many of us registered after the merit system was introduced. Therefore to claim that the merit system is "unfair" towards the newbies is a wrong conclusion. You are not being treated any differently than someone who has been here for a long time. We all have to earn our stripes, and I think you will find that most people are willing to help you along if you ask politely instead of disrespecting and insulting senior members from the very beginning. I have been on this forum for almost three years, and I have seen many new members come and go. The only ones who are still around are those who understand that if they want to be respected, they need to respect others.

[Lordsilvabtc]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2992259.msg30856756#msg30856756

I've seen a lot of low quality response like this from ranked members getting so much merit, but a newbie with far more, recieves nothing, My target is to learn as much as I can, so I can also impact someone else, so with all due respect, your Observations and conclusion is totally wrong 100% Respect to you.

Oh, the Altcoin Discussion board. I'm having a hard time finding posts there that are worthy of even 1 merit, mostly because they are buried in an avalanche of zero-value speculation posts - and I'm sure most other merit sources also think like that. (and for the record, I almost never merit any of the speculation boards with the exception of Wall Observer thread sometimes).

The last time I tried to scout for posts in that board was about a month ago. Filtering just takes way too long and kills me before I've even found a lot of posts.

No doubt about this, it happens sometimes, I see a lot of Zero worth post there, it's all about speculation of this or that, but the same time there's a lot of Boards, where important discussion are ongoing and lot of contributions and insights too going round, Cheers to everyone who has always got the newbies back. And I looked at your post history as well, you've contributed greatly to the platform, And it's amazing, Shedding out those knowledge of yours, those post are really inspiring and high learning resources to those who really wants them

[_BlackStar]

You may not agree with the merit system, but it is the way this forum works.

Why do you think the OP doesn't agree with the merit system, while he's trying to get it in various ways: Re: [Merit] Share your best posts/threads with Fillippone to be merit assessed - Anyway I don't think the OP needs to be lectured just because the account is newbie as it may not be newbie anymore from how to use forum and get to know the system quickly.

No doubt about this, it happens sometimes, I see a lot of Zero worth post there, it's all about speculation of this or that,

I don't care whether you are newbie or not, but if you do care about quality and want to contribute, then report posts that you think are bad rather than skipping them or ignoring them.

[nurilham]

• Reading from various section of the platform I discover that higher rank members are always meriting themselves, despite the level of low quality post, why newbies ends up with nothing irrespective of how informative their post is. This system isn't really favorable to Newbies.

You are wrong if you generalize all the high ranks to ALWAYS give merits themselves.
Don't you check this thread [TOP-200] The most generous users giving merits?
You can see that there are a lot of high ranks who are very friendly and care about low ranks. They specifically gave merits to newbies who made meritable posts.

Regarding post quality, it is very subjective. You must bring the example of the posts, so we can analyze together whether it is a low-quality post or not.
It is a bit complicated to determine the post quality without the example, since each member may have a different perception of the post quality.

Of course, this post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5411499.msg61111015#msg61111015 doesn't deserve to get 34 merits. But it is not a high rank, right? Don't forget that you accused the high ranks!

[Ryu_Ar1]

In this case I don't really want to discuss whether it's some kind of misuse of services or anything because that's what I see from my point of view, the old people who worked here of course they have a great bond about their network of friends because they have been around for a long time and Giving merit can also be a way of showing their respect for each other, so I really don't think this is abuse.
As for the quality of the post, I have no right to judge that it is quality or not because everyone must have their own views about it and I as someone who is much younger even though I am free to have an opinion here, I still don't seem worthy to comment on someone who is earlier than me.

[GxSTxV]

I don’t agree with you at all, i saw the opposite and members are helping each others with sharing knowledge and informations so all high rank members you see now they really deserve it for their content. When they reach highest rank they don’t really need more merit and everyone is free to do what he want his smerits

[Lordsilvabtc]

I agreed that I must have used the wrong term to stress my sentences and argument, And I remembered that I've apologize for using such term, High rank members on this platform have been very very awesome, I won't lie, I've learnt a lot from some of them, as stated, I only came across those things, which were my personal observation, like I've always say, my purpose here is beyond being meritted, but I won't lie, I will be grateful and happy when I recieved one, But at the same time what does it profit me, if I have all of the merit, yet no knowledge of the original purpose that brought me here, That a lot is defined to be a project failure. Or a failed project. In all ramifications of things, High rank members have really be nice to me, watch my post timeline, they're always there to offer me guidelines. And I really do appreciate, so with all honestly, I sincerely apologize once more for disrespecting you all high rank members, I'm sorry as that wasn't my intentions. Thank you

[KingsDen]

Yes, you don't like it a lot, so what? Are you here to change the world? Get used to it.

Your post made me to remember how I abandoned my mission to change the world here in the forum 
During my newbie time, I suggested  ways to make here better by chnaging somethings. I tried my best to point them out and by giving Solutions. I  even engaged some high ranking members in debates.
But there was a particular comment that made me to abandon my mission to change the world.
That comment made me understand that almost what I was suggesting had already been suggested in the past and probably nothing was done about them.

That was how I learnt how to use the search button. Now if you want anything to change in the system, create a topic and write a patch of code like PowerGlove

[_BlackStar]

In all ramifications of things, High rank members have really be nice to me, watch my post timeline, they're always there to offer me guidelines. And I really do appreciate, so with all honestly, I sincerely apologize once more for disrespecting you all high rank members, I'm sorry as that wasn't my intentions. Thank you

That's good because you actually notice it.
I think you have come to a conclusion so it would be very good for you to consider locking this thread. I hope something you wanted to know in the OP has already been answered so you should close it as soon as possible.

There are lots of good guide, advice and ways for you to learn how to grow in this forum. Of course it's not just about a few thread you need to create, but  good discussion and solid argument will help you achieve your goal here.

[Stalker22]

You may not agree with the merit system, but it is the way this forum works.

Why do you think the OP doesn't agree with the merit system, while he's trying to get it in various ways: Re: [Merit] Share your best posts/threads with Fillippone to be merit assessed - Anyway I don't think the OP needs to be lectured just because the account is newbie as it may not be newbie anymore from how to use forum and get to know the system quickly.

I got that impression from his post. How would you interpret this?

~
After my observation, i concluded that most higher rank members are selfish with the merit system.
~
" the merit system has been greatly abused by some higher rank members "

As I said, I don't agree with his point of view that most higher rank members are selfish or abusing the merit system and that is what I tried to explain to him. If you don't agree and think that he does not need "to be lectured", as you say, that is your opinion and you can freely express it and prove me wrong, or ignore my comment completely, but don't lecture me.

~
I sincerely apologize once more for disrespecting you all high rank members, I'm sorry as that wasn't my intentions. Thank you

Apology accepted. Welcome to the forum!
Now, I suggest you lock this topic and forget it ever existed.

[Peanutswar]

Giving merit can be subjective and objective at the same time if the content is really good information can be useful and help other member neglect the rank it is, merit is just not only to the quality of the post but also to the appreciation of the person who gives the merit like for example, you created an art related to the bitcoin community, a website, a system, update a statistics and more. We start from newbie too and upon getting long here some of us know what the forum needs. Dont get bothered too much better to invest your knowledge here first by that the merit follows.