To those who do not care about their privacy. Why?

[Party24*7]

Think a little more simply, people come here for profit or to stay anonymous. If anonymity is not profitable and anonymity can't feed you, do you need anonymity anymore? Anonymity is necessary, that is important, but profit comes first, like the subject of money, wthout money you will not be able to do anything in this life or you will not be respected by anyone. You don't have money people also want you to disappear from their eyes, you don't have to be anonymous. Anonymity should only be for those who already have a lot of money and are afraid of being robbed by others, but for those struggling to make a living, it doesn't really matter.

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[Tazzy4050]

Well we make it by using the very technology that affects our privacy. But, we like that technology and we like the benefits we get from it, especially if it means having our privacy diminished. And that’s what bothers me. You can’t cry your eyes out about being targeted online while enjoying that voucher for the seaside hotel you’ve been eyeing on or getting to work faster. That’s not how this works. People don’t realize the Internet is one giant marketplace where you make transactions: your information for everything else. We live extremely convenient and effective lives thanks to this new age of technology where we, the users, are crowdsourcing the information. Here’s the kicker: EVERYBODY wants to be part of that. I guarantee you that if the massive convenience factor was suddenly left out of the equation, there would be a far more louder outcry than there ever was for privacy or the perceived lack of it. People are hypocrites. Every day we do countless actions that are virtually open invitations into our life, yet when we realize there’s someone in on this on the other end, suddenly there’s panic. Suddenly there’s the all too familiar rhetoric “they can’t do that” because we didn’t allow them to use that information. But we did. We let them willingly. It’s a trade-off where we transact our information for all the good stuff we get in return. There are two options: continue using the technology the way you’ve been using it and stop bitching about privacy or stop being a part of the system. It’s that simple - nobody is forcing anybody. It’s very hypocritical to be a small part of this hugely efficient system, to feed off it and then whine about how it’s unfair that your information is being used. I hate that and it doesn’t make sense.

[franky1]

im calling B.S on privacyG laughable attempt to pretend that he is private and uses disposable ID every time he uses a CEX or even a DEX

Quote the part of my post where I said I use a disposable ID every time I use a CEX.  

so its a case of "do as i say" not a "do as i do" case.. ok got it

firstly when using a CEX that asks for KYC they dont ask for just a scummy name and disposable email.

Never have I ever completed KYC anywhere Cryptocurrency related.  I actually think I have never completed KYC anywhere on the Internet.

so you never bought anything with bitcoin or fiat online requiring some kind of info ever. ok got it.
sucks to be you. you could get great deals on things both in bitcoin retail and fiat retail online.

in my case i USE bitcoin. i buy things. you know things that need delivery to me.

along with people near him, have been trying to push the blame onto bitcoin network, rather then the businesses.

Quote me where I blame Bitcoin.

in every subtle questioning of "bitcoiners dont care about privacy" you imply bitcoin doesnt have any.

you need to separate "bitcoiners"(network currency users) from "crypto service users" there is a major difference. by just implying bitcoiners cant be private if they are not doing XYZ. you imply bitcoin has no privacy. when infact its the crypto businesses and services that are the information gatherers of personal datapoints. not bitcoin

the reason i am directing certain subject lines at you is because i see you in many topics toe a party line of a certain group that want to break bitcoins consensus and accounting ledger protocol, to make bitcoin a more privacy enhanced tool.
which i feel this topic was trying to be a subtle introduction to. with its subtle implications on "bitcoiners" rather then "crypto service users"

[PrivacyG]

so its a case of "do as i say" not a "do as i do" case.. ok got it

Can we be realistic for one quick moment?  If you create a new account for a Centralized Exchange every time you trade, you will either get banned or have your funds stolen (frozen) as soon as you create the second or the third account.  Because no way in hell will any Exchange not put a red flag over your IP.

I challenge you to do this on Coinbase.  Leave some funds on your main account if you have one, and then start creating 49 more accounts.  See how quickly you can donate some money to Coinbase!  There are some things you can simply not dispose of.  One of them is Centralized Exchange accounts.

But I am going to pretend you did not ignore the part of my post where I said I am not using any Centralized Exchange.  I am also going to pretend you did not intentionally skip words out of my replies, this time to Dave, in order to take things out of context.

'Because if you care about your privacy, you will dispose of ALMOST anything you do after your action is complete.' source

so you never bought anything with bitcoin or fiat online requiring some kind of info ever. ok got it.
sucks to be you. you could get great deals on things both in bitcoin retail and fiat retail online.

in my case i USE bitcoin. i buy things. you know things that need delivery to me.

I am not from the United States where KYC is requested for almost any action.  There are parts of the world where you can do stuff without having to upload your ID, they do not care if you order on your real name, on your real address, on your real e-mail address, where you can get free SIM cards from mobile phone operators you can then dispose of.

Would appreciate if you stopped assuming things.

in every subtle questioning of "bitcoiners dont care about privacy" you imply bitcoin doesnt have any.

The average Bitcoiner does not care about their privacy.  Exchange hacks and bankruptcies would not be such a spearhead to the market if there were not so many Bitcoiners who had their funds stored over there instead of Bitcoin Core or a Cold Wallet.  They do not use Bitcoin Core, they rather use Electrum.  They complete KYC for Altcoin bounties that end up being scams.  They use no Coin Control, they just do not seem to care.

Nowhere did I say Bitcoin has no privacy, nowhere did I blame Bitcoin for anything.  If that was the case, unlike SnowShow I would have spent my time doing something else right now.  You can have excellent privacy, if you care.

the reason i am directing certain subject lines at you

Yes, I did notice you are taking things I said out of context.

i see you in many topics toe a party line of a certain group that want to break bitcoins consensus and accounting ledger protocol, to make bitcoin a more privacy enhanced tool.
which i feel this topic was trying to be a subtle introduction to. with its subtle implications on "bitcoiners" rather then "crypto service users"

You just caught me red handed.  Got me.  Truth is, I am the beginning of a cult whose ultimate purpose is destroying Bitcoin.

We agree to disagree.  I find it funny how you are somehow spinning this into some weird conspiracy.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[uneng]

But I am very conscious there are a lot of you out here who simply do not give a damn.  Which begs the question for me, why is it that you do not give a single damn about your own privacy when using Bitcoin?  Why not protect yourself in front of all sorts of attacks if you have the chance to do so?

I think if I were a wealthy investor I would be more concerned regards this matter, but since I'm not, I see no reason to care so much for privacy. Moreover, I invest bitcoin for extra interest, because I need the income to pay for basic needs, so I have to sacrifice my privacy, otherwise I would have to sacrifice my holdings.

Also.  What do you think about us, who try their hardest to 'hide'?  Do you think we are suspicious or are you perfectly fine with our way of living?  Do you think the number of criminals is larger where there are more privacy enthusiasts?

Honestly, I think it's a hobby of yours or it's like you are playing a character from a spy action movie for real, so you can feel the adrenaline and excitment as if you were being watched.

I don't think it's suspicious, it's just that you are giving it more importance than it deserves for average citizens, but as you said it's a way of living. Most people aren't worried if someone knows how much they earn or have on their accounts.

And the number of criminals per area isn't related to privacy concern. Actually, there are also criminals who don't give any importance to privacy. They love ostentation!

[BlackHatCoiner]

I don't think it's suspicious, it's just that you are giving it more importance than it deserves for average citizens, but as you said it's a way of living.

That's a sincere response, I ought to say. But here's a question: what makes average citizens... average? Average according to their income and lifestyle I suppose.

It is commonly referred that they don't need privacy (or Internet privacy in this matter, since no privacy at all is rare phenomenon even nowadays), because they don't have something to hide there. But, I'm afraid this is just a reason. They don't have something to hide, because they are average. The cause is not they don't have something to hide; instead, it's the feeling that they don't have something to hide. Them being acknowledged as average, insignificant, weak human beings is what narrows their mind down.

You shouldn't want privacy because you have something to hide, in and of itself. You should want privacy, because you recognize yourself as a strong, dignified, autonomous, personal-growth thriving entity.

[PrivacyG]

I think if I were a wealthy investor I would be more concerned regards this matter, but since I'm not, I see no reason to care so much for privacy.

Since you are here, I presume you already know Bitcoin typically brings significant profit during bull runs and have this hope that one day your investment will be a success.  You also seem to be conscious that once you become wealthy privacy will be a concern.

But if you do not care now while hoping for success, are you not afraid of the possible repercussions if you become wealthy?  Like people linking your real identity to old addresses and information you currently put out there on the Internet?

Let me put out an example.  If you do not practice Coin Control and do not have a healthy behavior of address management overall.  And you mix up coins you earn and move through Bitcoin Talk with addresses used for other accounts such as Exchanges.  Should you ever become a millionaire, it becomes just so easy for me or anyone else to track uneng's Bitcoin Talk address to millions of dollars.  You can then start taking care of it all and trying to break links, but no matter what you do, uneng will be tied to a huge potential bag of wealth and that is a link you can not break.

It is commonly referred that they don't need privacy (or Internet privacy in this matter, since no privacy at all is rare phenomenon even nowadays), because they don't have something to hide there. But, I'm afraid this is just a reason. They don't have something to hide, because they are average. The cause is not they don't have something to hide; instead, it's the feeling that they don't have something to hide. Them being acknowledged as average, insignificant, weak human beings is what narrows their mind down.

You shouldn't want privacy because you have something to hide, in and of itself. You should want privacy, because you recognize yourself as a strong, dignified, autonomous, personal-growth thriving entity.

You put it in such a fascinating way.  The possible tie between the need of privacy and human strength and power.  Very curious and very interestingly said.  Is it possible that some of us give up the idea of having privacy because we are already 'all in' in the hands of those at the top of the pyramid?  Because we already gave away so much that our brain considers there is nothing left they can take anyway?

-----

I want to personally thank every one who gave their sincere explanation.  I find this topic and trying to understand the opposite extreme very fascinating, as I feel like I am sitting at the exact opposite end caring maybe too much in some situations.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[darkangel11]

I don't think it's suspicious, it's just that you are giving it more importance than it deserves for average citizens, but as you said it's a way of living.

That's a sincere response, I ought to say. But here's a question: what makes average citizens... average? Average according to their income and lifestyle I suppose.

It is commonly referred that they don't need privacy (or Internet privacy in this matter, since no privacy at all is rare phenomenon even nowadays), because they don't have something to hide there. But, I'm afraid this is just a reason. They don't have something to hide, because they are average. The cause is not they don't have something to hide; instead, it's the feeling that they don't have something to hide. Them being acknowledged as average, insignificant, weak human beings is what narrows their mind down.

You shouldn't want privacy because you have something to hide, in and of itself. You should want privacy, because you recognize yourself as a strong, dignified, autonomous, personal-growth thriving entity.

Average = sheep in the way the rulers of this world see us.

It's enough that we're being fucked from left and right all the time, we have to be average on top of it all. On one hand it's unlawful scammers and thieves, on the other lawful ones like the government. You earn some money in your life, half of it is taken by the government, then you get to be scammed at least once in your life and what's left is yours to enjoy you slave. And then we get this little thing that's our privacy that we get to keep and people choose to give it away, to sell their bitcoins or to donate it to scammers like Sam the Scamman Fraudster and go back to living our mediocre lives.

[franky1]

so its a case of "do as i say" not a "do as i do" case.. ok got it

Can we be realistic for one quick moment?  If you create a new account for a Centralized Exchange every time you trade, you will either get banned or have your funds stolen (frozen) as soon as you create the second or the third account.  Because no way in hell will any Exchange not put a red flag over your IP.

I challenge you to do this on Coinbase.

i was not the one telling people to use different ID's for each daily action/event with a service.
it was you that was telling people to do it. and i was the one telling you the pitfalls in your idea.. which is why i said "i call BS" because if you were to be doing it. you would have found the pitfalls and realised its not an idea worth promoting as it doesnt work

its actually you that should challenge yourself to do the things you say before you suggest it to others.. just test out your theories before implying its a working idea, implying that it has proven itself effective.

by testing your theory so you can see the result of the actions you are asking others to do..you then realise the pitfalls of your idea's..

but it seems however, you quickly realised your mistake.  you have now realised your request of others to destroy an identity per action would actually get an exchange to notice their attempts of service abuse more and cause the service to flag people MORE and link their accounts. and put them on a watch list

so you have learned .. good. your idea does not work with CEX services
you are willing to learn and correct yourself +1point

But I am going to pretend you did not ignore the part of my post where I said I am not using any Centralized Exchange.  I am also going to pretend you did not intentionally skip words out of my replies, this time to Dave, in order to take things out of context.

'Because if you care about your privacy, you will dispose of ALMOST anything you do after your action is complete.'

much like those advertising using a mixer pre custodian. such actions of mixers and using isposible ID's are not privacy concerving. but instead red flag triggering to get you noticed more out of the noise of millions of normal users

did you know that exchanges dont actively have employees watching their customers trades 24/7.
you are not being "watched"
yes they keep data logs. but as long as there are no red flags that data just stays logged and is not seen by a human eye or reported.

however using false ID or mixers are red flags that do start investigations..

much like wanting to not be seen when walking down the street your advising others to run around and do extra work and do things that look out of the ordinary like sneak behind bushes, shimmy under parked cars.. yet those activities actually catch peoples eye more and they start looking at you wondering what you are upto.

.. sometimes in life.. less is more. the less attention to attract to yourself the more you get to hide in the noise of normal activity which no one listens to because they are prefering to concentrate on other more important things.

in every subtle questioning of "bitcoiners dont care about privacy" you imply bitcoin doesnt have any.

The average Bitcoiner does not care about their privacy.  Exchange hacks and bankruptcies would not be such a spearhead to the market if there were not so many Bitcoiners who had their funds stored over there instead of Bitcoin Core or a Cold Wallet.  They do not use Bitcoin Core, they rather use Electrum.  They complete KYC for Altcoin bounties that end up being scams.  They use no Coin Control, they just do not seem to care.

maybe write cryptocurrecny users that use services.. just to be clear.

rather then specifying a certain group.
oh and more coin is stored in exchanges over on the ethereum network than the bitcoin network. just saying

but you are calling out "bitcoiners"

oh and last time i checked of all exchanges combined only 16% of coins were ever custodianised at its peak. and since the fiasco of some exchanges that is down to ~13% as of today.. so its not a majority of bitcoiners that are using exchanges as custodians. should you dare check

again. go check ethereums exchange market reserves.. and separate exchange custodian staking hoard

you will see a higher percentage of ethfairy's(people of ethereum) dont care much about their privacy because more of them use custodians

by you implying that because bitcoinser dont employ tactics of XYZ there is a privacy issue for bitcoiners.

again clarify that its SERVICE USERS you are addressing rather than brushing majority of bitcoiners into your minority category
......
oh one last thing

i have a stash of many bitcoins gathered since 2012. probably alot more coins than you have..
i dont use mixers or coinjoins. but i do spend with bitcoin merchants..

i dont use disposable IDs per action..

soo.. find my stash.
heck ill even give you 5 hints
a. funds are in addresses only used 2012-2022
b. funds were added over those years but mainly 2012-2014
c. the hoard:spend ratio is   20:1
d. i dont have that many address
e. no its not the 1frank vanity. as that was just a joke address for 'penny grabby' play money amounts i never intend to spend

also find my birth certified name

.. goodluck

but mainly .. atleast try to not imply things.. and instead use the term "cryptocurrency users of services" rather then targetting "bitcoiners"
there is a HUGE diference

[o_e_l_e_o]

Most people aren't worried if someone knows how much they earn or have on their accounts.

No? You aren't worried about your insurance companies looking at your incoming and thinking "Well, we can jack his prices a bit, he can afford it." You aren't worried about your boss seeing that you donated to a specific political party or candidate, and deciding to let you go because of it? You aren't even worried if the dodgy characters in your neighborhood know that you are secretly quite wealthy? Nobody ever posts their bank statements on social media. Why would you be fine with your bank statements being shared among data brokers?

soo.. find my stash.

A false equivalence. Asking a random internet user, who probably at most has access to some posts you made on here and a blockchain explorer, is not the same as the global surveillance committed by nation states who have access to all that, to the best blockchain analysis companies and software, to IP addresses, browser fingerprints, and other information gathered and sold by your OS, browser, installed software, and so on, information from your ISP, etc., etc.

If you asked a random person on the street to break in to your laptop, they would struggle. If you asked the FBI to do it, they would likely have no problem.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Is it possible that some of us give up the idea of having privacy because we are already 'all in' in the hands of those at the top of the pyramid?  Because we already gave away so much that our brain considers there is nothing left they can take anyway?

Maybe.

Or maybe having your privacy infringed is a new trend. We're surrounded by "social media influencers" who go on to the extremes, to gain recognition. Extremely sculpted men. Extremely hot women. Extremely fascinating holidays. Extremely cute pappies. Extremely good food. Extreme tendency to show one's wealth. And that sells, because... apparently extremeness sells. Now think that if a person is constantly brainwashed with this extremeness, he's likely to strive for it too, because that's what he thinks is normal. The result is masses of people who try out to look good, irrespective of them being special or not; in exchange of course of their privacy. The genius thing behind Instagram, TikTok, Facebook etc., is the fact that it encourages you to screw your privacy up. It is to make those who demand it weirdos.

After all, a more effective approach to encroach on someone's freedom, is to have them voluntarily hand it over to you.

A false equivalence.

Even that way, I'm sure you can find part of his stash. He's reusing Bitcoin addresses. From a quick search: 1FrankZ7t5Wbf5uTMxMtCiQy9eKDsj1fUn. Now I know that franky has received a total of 9.39 BTC, and has kept 0.014, from 38 transactions, 20 of which came from a mining pool. Happy hashes franky. If I wasted a few more minutes, I could find out which pool was that, and according to the difficulty, how much part of the hash rate does franky own.

[franky1]

A false equivalence.

Even that way, I'm sure you can find part of his stash. He's reusing Bitcoin addresses. From a quick search: 1FrankZ7t5Wbf5uTMxMtCiQy9eKDsj1fUn. Now I know that franky has received a total of 9.39 BTC, and has kept 0.014, from 38 transactions, 20 of which came from a mining pool. Happy hashes franky. If I wasted a few more minutes, I could find out which pool was that, and according to the difficulty, how much part of the hash rate does franky own.

il give you a hint. mining in 2012 = gpu mining.. not rocket science.. you dont even need a calculator or to investigate that

i was saving you time by highlighting:
dont be lame and lazy wasting time on the franky public pseudonym/play money.. thats easy.. instead find the stash and name of the human behind the pseudonym typing the posts

and another hint. read my part (e) of my last post
hint being my(human at keyboard) stash was separate wallet to the 1franky(just a nickname) wallet
the 1franky play money went into btc-e and i traded that then another exchange then another.
it was my "dont give a crap" play money address
the associations i did not give a crap about nor the amount. both were insignificant.

last time i used 1franky address was the forum anti-hero competition reward because i did not give a crap for those coins and didnt want them associated with my(human) stash because they were coming from things like chipmixer. which is a no-no for exchanges.. so i threw that reward in an address that proves they paid out to the competition winner (pseudonym) but where i dont care to use them

i dont even think i kept the key for that addresses privkey either in last 4 years, nor do i care to find it. those coins are dead to me. much like my pseudonym doesnt have a heart

the whole reason i said find my(human) stash and birth certified name. is because if people think that not using mixers means their stashes and real life info can be found.. try it.

do you get it now angelo

[o_e_l_e_o]

the whole reason i said find my(human) stash and birth certified name. is because if people think that not using mixers means their stashes and real life info can be found.. try it.

The same false equivalence as above. Just because I personally have no desire to spend my time with the limited tools and information available to me to try to locate your stash, does not mean that a nation state which spends hundreds of millions of dollars on surveilling the blockchain and gathering data from a multitude of resources hasn't already located it.

It was also significantly easier for the majority of users to maintain anonymity in 2012 when they could, as you've just pointed out, GPU mine from their own computer, than it is for the same majority of users today, most of whom will be buying bitcoin through fully KYCed accounts at centralized exchanges. Now I know your next argument and I agree that that isn't bitcoin's fault, but that doesn't mean people can't use tools like mixers or coinjoins to regain that lost privacy.

[franky1]

nation states dont watch everyone. they delegate services like exchanges to watch their own customers.
nation states are not interested.. ministers/senators dont read reports or keep records..

you will find that regulators(separate from politics) are run and operated like businesses too. heck the CEOs of the two main US regulators are not politicians but banker lineage

you will find its regulators (group of non politicians that are mastered by ex bankers)
 that are not actively watching everything you do. they are reactive to reports handed to them by businesses, they are only interested in the juicy reports of suspect behaviour because even regulators dont have the man power to watch everyone. its far cheaper for them to reward businesses with a commission/bounty for handing them a suspect report

this is why nations(politicians) say if you do nothing wrong you got nothing to fear. because your name and shopping list doesnt even reach the political ranks. they just dont care about you.

yes your data sits on exchange/business platforms and those businesses can trade your data(even to regulators).

but atleast understand that its the BUSINESSES that you should point fingers at.. not bitcoins blockchain or a senator/ministers. because both are not asking for your real life information  or your shopping habits
they dont care. senators/ministers are just voted in guys that have other agendas. they dont care to look at your shopping list

i am not worried thinking that some government minister has my data. .. its more of a concern about businesses that have my data

if you are worrying that some senator/minister has your data.. your wasting worries and time. if you are worried your data is on the blockchain(name and product purchase list) you are wasting your time too
your data is with businesses. once you realise who and where data can be found. then you can start to preserve it by not giving it

[uneng]

I see your points and they do make sense, without any doubts. You are right thinking and living the way you are.

And I thought really interesting the part that to care for privacy is to care for your self-esteem, to have self-respect. That is an admirable point of view very few individuals have.

Although for the average person, the one who is struggling to survive, living one day at a time, it's hard to have this discernment, because there are so many problems and difficults, that privacy becomes the least of our concerns.

But at some point I hope to reach at this mentality level, executing it on the practice.

[Dickiy]

Think a little more simply, people come here for profit or to stay anonymous. If anonymity is not profitable and anonymity can't feed you, do you need anonymity anymore? Anonymity is necessary, that is important, but profit comes first, like the subject of money, wthout money you will not be able to do anything in this life or you will not be respected by anyone. You don't have money people also want you to disappear from their eyes, you don't have to be anonymous. Anonymity should only be for those who already have a lot of money and are afraid of being robbed by others, but for those struggling to make a living, it doesn't really matter.

When it comes to profit, which human would not want profit? but that's not the main thing, because you have many ways to earn profits wherever and whenever and this forum is no exception.
But unfortunately, if you are more concerned with profit than personal data privacy (Personal data Anonymity), do you know the impact of leaking personal data? I think it's a stupid disservice, do you understand that? Have you heard that maintaining personal privacy is important to those around you?
When your personal data is leaked to bad people, you may suddenly get bills even though you did not place an order, there may be a lot of terror in your life and maybe people will sell your data for their benefit.
In my opinion, this is not a matter of being rich or poor, but a matter of security and peace of mind, maybe you should understand why there is a personal data protection law for workers working in a company.
Whether you are rich, poor, ordinary people, a student, worker and other, maintaining privacy is very important because if your data is leaked and falls into the hands of irresponsible people, you will regret it.
Robbery in direct life, I think can be avoided because it is usually robbery by force. But robbers who know your data are much more dangerous because you will unknowingly hand over everything you have from a distance that you do not know.

Likewise in the world of Bitcoin, if you don't protect your data, chances are you will be easily tracked in everything you do in it and it will take advantage of you and you will be on the radar of other people who can attack you at any moment.

Maybe profit accompanies you but destruction overshadows you every time and waits for the right time to destroy you, whoever you are, guard privacy from now before regret arrives, because we don't know what other people are planning for us when we are unable to protect ourselves.

[ayuskabob]

A little mind game.

when anyone says the classic "i don't care about privacy,got nothing to hide" ask back:
"Really?...could you hand me your phone for 2 minutes ?" simple as 

[tjtonmoy]

I am very cautious about my financial life. I try everything to hide them. But on the other hand, we use almost every popular social media platform which are always collecting data knowingly or unknowingly.
We can't prevent that. We are willing to give up our privacy to them just to enjoy hormone (Dopamine )release. I have been away from many platforms for years now. I try to stick to the analog connections or only those platform which doesn't ask for your personal info.
I have faced a major issue someday back, maybe 3/4 months from today. I stored my phrase key of my software wallet in an online platform notepad. Few days later it got hacked.
So now i always try to keep them backed up in an offline method, a piece of paper and a vault.
Those who still doesn't care about their privacy, I fear no one, but them