Bounty spammer meets AI Chat generator. Can they be banned on the spot?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Combining those 2, I can think of a legit reason for word spinning: to avoid identification by using forensic linguistics. But that's not the case in any of the spam-cases we've seen.

Word spinning does a very poor job at this, since you keep the same sentence structure, grammar, etc. But still, none of the spamming accounts using word spinners are word spinning some text that they wrote themselves. They are plagiarizing.

CAPTCHA can block fully automated bot which automatically select thread at random, obtain text from AI (such as chatGPT) and then make a reply using that text.

But equally it is trivial for the bot to do all this anyway and only require human interaction for <10 seconds to solve the captcha. If you are not using Tor or something else that means you end up having to solve the same captcha twenty times or more, then one human can still mass spam with multiple bot accounts with little hindrance.

Just ban the spammers.

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[Ultegra134]

My guess: he's trying to earn that one Merit needed for a Jr. Member signature for bounty spam.

Wasn't aware that there are bounty campaigns in the altcoin section have such low requirements.

CAPTCHA can block fully automated bot which automatically select thread at random, obtain text from AI (such as chatGPT) and then make a reply using that text. But it's unlikely it'll stop people who copy text manually from website which provide AI service.

There probably is a small number of users who might be using such a bot, but in my opinion, as you've already mentioned, the majority will just stick to manual copy and pasting from AI services. Using a fully automated bot requires some knowledge that the majority of these spammers don't have, while it sounds way too exaggerated. The manual method is far easier and more hassle free.

[DaveF]

My guess: he's trying to earn that one Merit needed for a Jr. Member signature for bounty spam.

Wasn't aware that there are bounty campaigns in the altcoin section have such low requirements.

Perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way. Ban the campaign managers and the projects that hire them if they use people who are using spam bots and give everyone in the campaign a warning that they were working with spammers. After a certain number of warnings you would get a ban. Would that be too harsh?

Seriously, I use the altcoin section for a few things and would not be put at all if it went away, so it might be a harsh point of view, but to me it looks like most of the bounty campaigns are a lot crappier then they used to be.

-Dave

[o_e_l_e_o]

Perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way. Ban the campaign managers and the projects that hire them if they use people who are using spam bots and give everyone in the campaign a warning that they were working with spammers. After a certain number of warnings you would get a ban. Would that be too harsh?

Nope, not too harsh at all. In fact, doing exactly this is already in the rules stickied to the top of the Services board:

If you are running a campaign and it becomes blatantly obvious to Staff that you are doing little to nothing to stop spam on your campaign you will be issued a PM warning by a Global Moderator that you need to make immediate improvements to curb low-quality posts. You will have 7 days to remove low-quality posters and respond to the message detailing what you are going to do to make changes to your campaign to reduce the amount of spam. If improvements are not noticeable within 21 days of that and Staff do not believe you are doing enough to prevent low quality posts your signatures will be blacklisted from the forum by an Admin and you will no longer be permitted to advertise here in such a way.

As far as I am aware, this has literally never happened. Even when we had the absolute flood of YoBit spammers, it took months of the forum being an absolute shitshow and multiple threads in Meta and Reputation complaining about it before we finally got some intervention.

Just enforce the rules. 7/14/30 day escalating bans for 1st/2nd/3rd offenses for spammers, followed by a permaban. Same for campaign managers and campaigns themselves. Actually do this and the problem is solved. Spammers are banned, and new spammers joining are massively reduced because there is no incentive for them to do so, since any campaign manager which accepts them will also be banned. Campaigns are incentivized to use good campaign managers, because if they choose a bad one they will also be banned from advertising here.

The solution already exists. It's just the mods and admins ignore it. I don't know why.

[Ucy]

In certain gatherings comments like that would be given massive round of applause not because they make any sense, are relevant or true, but because of the "powerful" grammer or vocabularies that are used.
 It would be great if people focused more on relevant comments (comments relevant to what is being discussed) even if their grammar or vocabularies seem poor/weak. I have observed certain posters who don't really write well but have strong points and relevant comments. You would notice their posts value or relevance if they were rewritten by a qualified English professor. And you could easily notice the meaninglessness of AI generated texts for example if they were rewritten by someone with poor grammar.

I believe it's best to attract those with strong interest & passion for Bitcoin/crypto otherwise we will have a forum full of people applauding or even meriting meaningless comments/posts because of their powerful grammar. Such comments will likely be boring and easily noticed by passionate members even though they look attractive. And the passion could help in the understanding of relevant/reasonable comments written by members with poor English

[dkbit98]

So...
NotATether, ETFbitcoin, o_e_l_e_o, LoyceV are all against my concept of a captcha.

I am also against adding captchas for writing every post, and it would create big decrease in forum activity.
Maybe adding captchas could be considered for people who are writing many worthless posts in short amount of time.

@LoyceV can you check and test this tools I found for detecting AI bots?
This tools can be used freely and it's called GPT-2 Output Detector, GLTR and GPTZero.
They are not 100% correct all the time, but they can be indicator if someone is using AI for making posts.

Sources:
https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/
http://gltr.io/dist/index.html
https://etedward-gptzero-main-zqgfwb.streamlit.app/

[LoyceV]

@LoyceV can you check and test this tools I found for detecting AI bots?

Since it can have both false positives as well as false negatives, I don't think it's worth the effort.
Also: what are the odds those "detectors" only use the current AI chat for their own publicity?

[Sandra_hakeem]

@LoyceV can you check and test this tools I found for detecting AI bots?

Since it can have both false positives as well as false negatives, I don't think it's worth the effort.
Also: what are the odds those "detectors" only use the current AI chat for their own publicity?

I haven't really been been cleared on that Yunno; cus I see -- getting publicized -- as one huge reason why they go about with artificial intelligence in the first place...... ofcourse,I don't think if they wanted to keep this nuisance a secret, because what's the point of having DETECTORS?? Maybe it was made to gain some top-notch publicity as you said ( though I think less of that) or some peeps, after getting tired of the whole drama, had to get into their worst primes just to get 'em either granted unopposed as something very important, or segregated as something unnecessary at all.
The latter seems true to me .

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

[Ryu_Ar1]

If you find more of this, please post them here as examples.

Sorry in advance, are posts like this really allowed?



I don't really understand the language the OP uses, but if you look at the post, most of it is like that, even though there are a few quotes there as well as a few pictures, but looking at the whole it looks like you will understand what I mean.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=556829;sa=showPosts

[Ultegra134]

My guess: he's trying to earn that one Merit needed for a Jr. Member signature for bounty spam.

Wasn't aware that there are bounty campaigns in the altcoin section have such low requirements.

Perhaps we are looking at it the wrong way. Ban the campaign managers and the projects that hire them if they use people who are using spam bots and give everyone in the campaign a warning that they were working with spammers. After a certain number of warnings you would get a ban. Would that be too harsh?

Seriously, I use the altcoin section for a few things and would not be put at all if it went away, so it might be a harsh point of view, but to me it looks like most of the bounty campaigns are a lot crappier then they used to be.

-Dave

Well, it does sound a little harsh, but it depends on how you see things. In general, the most spam and gibberish posts stem from the 1xbit signature campaign (apart from the altcoin section, which you mentioned), and despite the efforts of plenty of users who reported a large number of their posts, the issue remains. Two sections that are filled to the brim with such posts are the gambling and altcoin sections, in which I hardly ever participate; thus, I can't have a comprehensive reason for the spam, but in my opinion, the gambling requirements that campaign managers put in are one of the possible causes. The altcoin section, on the other hand, is filled with bounty campaigns that are attracting newer users or those who are unable to enter the most reputed ones.

[dkbit98]

Since it can have both false positives as well as false negatives, I don't think it's worth the effort.

It gives you percentage that shows if some text was potentially generated by AI bot or not.
We use similar thing to detect if something was plagiarized in forum and report that to moderators, so I think we can use something similar with AI generated text.
If one member gets repeated high percentage of AI generated posts I think this member should be banned or temporary banned.

Also: what are the odds those "detectors" only use the current AI chat for their own publicity?

I don't know who owns those websites I posted and I don't care who they are, except one that is collaboration between people from MIT and Harvard.

[LoyceV]

It gives you percentage that shows if some text was potentially generated by AI bot or not.

I tried that in another topic. Conclusion: I'm a bot Since I'm obviously human, the detection is unreliable.

If one member gets repeated high percentage of AI generated posts I think this member should be banned or temporary banned.

Based on a third-party tool? I doubt it.

[LoyceMobile]

I found another user that looks like a generic chat generator spammer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3524806;sa=showPosts

Typically, it adds as much words or phrases as possible to make the post or message sound longer and better. << See what i did there?

It's more annoying that normal shitposts because it takes more time to notice.

[dkbit98]

I tried that in another topic. Conclusion: I'm a bot Since I'm obviously human, the detection is unreliable.

You didn't say what was the percentage showing text was AI generated on all 3 websites... but some people have been saying you are a bot for years  

Based on a third-party tool? I doubt it.

How do you think we are detecting plagiarized text by other members?
We certainly don't have super powers, and I was always using two website to detect source and PERCENTAGE of plagiarism... it worked well most of the times.

EDIT:
Here is one test I did with this post from member Techdev generated by AI (it was later deleted by moderators after my report):
https://ninjastic.space/post/61619530

GPT-2 Output Detector is showing 99.98% that this is AI generated:



GPTZero is saying that text is most likely to be AI generated:

[LoyceV]

I tried that in another topic. Conclusion: I'm a bot Since I'm obviously human, the detection is unreliable.

You didn't say what was the percentage showing text was AI generated on all 3 websites...

The site I tested before labeled me as 81% fake.

How do you think we are detecting plagiarized text by other members?
We certainly don't have super powers, and I was always using two website to detect source and PERCENTAGE of plagiarism... it worked well most of the times.

I always use an exact match on them, or manually find word spinning. I've never used a "plagiarism detector" for it.

[joker_josue]

I found another user that looks like a generic chat generator spammer:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3524806;sa=showPosts

I would also say that these texts are generated by the AI. Because, instead of answering the question directly, he makes a little explanation and then he answers the question in a very comprehensive way.

[sujonali1819]

After launching the ChatGpt it's a benefit for the spammer and the beginner who doesn't care about bitcointalk rules. Now I can feel what would if the merit system did not arrive. Theymos did a great job by implementing the merit system. Otherwise, bitcointalk could be full of spammers with the help of this AI chat generator.

Btw I also think the spammers who use the AI chat generator to post here should be at least a temp ban. Otherwise you can not stop them it's sure.

[LoyceMobile]

Another chat bot spammer?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3524190;sa=showPosts

[joker_josue]

Another chat bot spammer?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3524190;sa=showPosts

I did some simulations, to try to understand if what is said is similar to the AI.
Of course, I don't know how the AI research was done, even so some posts seem identical to your answers or the way to respond. But on the other hand, other posts don't seem like that anymore.

We had to remain attentive and watch the evolution of that user's posts in order to obtain greater clarity on the subject.

[LoyceMobile]

Running a pruned node has downsides for users.
~
In the event of a dispute, it can be more difficult to prove the validity of your transactions.

I'm thinking about neutral tags for chat bot BS.