Ban evasion clarification!

[yahoo62278]

I already know the answer, but I would like a moderator to clarify so there is visual proof of a ruling on the forums banned account policy.

Ok, let's start with a little of why I am making this thread. Recently a user who's on his 3rd account popped up and made yet another prediction thread in the gambling section. The users 1st account Fishy001 is already banned, but he think's that he paid the evil fee and is unbanned.

Addressing the ban evasion, When I registered today, I paid 10$ for the register account fee for bitcoin talk. bitcointalk got my IP.
I got banned before. When I pay again, the ban is canceled.
 So I don't ban evasion here. I paid the fee to unlock access.

The rules state:

25. Ban evasion (using or creating accounts while one of your accounts is banned) is not allowed.

25. If you get banned (temporarily or permanently) and create a new account to continue posting / sending PMs, it's considered ban evasion. The only exception is creating a thread in Meta about your ban.

Q: Why is my IP banned? What are those units of evil?
A: Your IP might be banned because it was used by a user that got perma banned. Don't worry - IP bans decay over time if there's not too many of them issued during a small period of time. If you register using a banned IP, are using TOR, VPNs or well known proxies, you will have to pay a small fee. This is to prevent spammers while allowing legitimate members to post without many restrictions.

Q: Why was my account banned?
A: You probably have broken one of the rules. Try emailing a message to the specified appeal email shown in your ban message.


Source https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

What is not stated and needs clarified for the mentally impaired(yea im being a dick) is if you pay the evil fee, does that take away your previous ban status? Does that mean you paid the fee, now you can make as many accounts as you wish again? I know the answer is no, but for clarification I need a mod to state that and also maybe pin it in the unofficial rules thread so that all bases are covered.

[Little Mouse]

What is not stated and needs clarified for the mentally impaired(yea im being a dick) is if you pay the evil fee, does that take away your previous ban status? Does that mean you paid the fee, now you can make as many accounts as you wish again? I know the answer is no, but for clarification I need a mod to state that and also maybe pin it in the unofficial rules thread so that all bases are covered.

When an account is banned, it's a ban for the person. So, paying fees doesn't change the fact. One can't make more account once they are banned. Note- I'm not a moderator here 

[hilariousandco]

It's obviously not allowed but I can see how someone could see the evil fee and take it as they're just paying a fine to abolish their ban or something.

[PX-Z]

Paying fee for the evil points is only for registration requirement because of IP address or what but it doesn't change that he is ban evading.
Anyone can create another account but will be banned soon after getting reported.

[NeuroticFish]

Well done @yahoo62278 for bringing this up. I've explained in his thread that he's wrong, I've tagged him and.. the rest is up to the mods.

I don't know how the evil fee related page looks like, maybe it worth taking a look onto it, maybe it needs some information added to avoid this kind of confusion (which, as I wrote there too, may or may not be on purpose).

[fishy00001]

Being honest Im  bigger contribution to the forum than the Yahoo guy.

He ask donation like Homeless

And  report on me

While I give gambling users money back guraantee to their bet if if they are  wrong.

On fights that I pick up to predefined  amount.

I give out

He take


I thought only to improve the forum increase engagement  and entertainment because I am wealthy (you could see my past bets on the alt)


I dont think to scam people like yahoo.

 I am all about giving.   And enjoy giving.
 

If I knew that 16 yrs old kid got scam by fake donation by  me it would bother me at me at night.

[Upgrade00]

Definitely ban evasion and the rules are pretty clear on it. The user probably had no idea how the forum rules worked, reason why they were banned and don't know about ban evasion.

It's obviously not allowed but I can see how someone could see the evil fee and take it as they're just paying a fine to abolish their ban or something.

This would only be possible if they have already tried to evade the ban. The ban message is clear and only directs one to send an email to appeal the ban.
The user would have to try to open a new account before they are asked to pay to remove the evil IP.

If it was to mean the ban would be abolished they would pay through their original account, no?

[yahoo62278]

Well done @yahoo62278 for bringing this up. I've explained in his thread that he's wrong, I've tagged him and.. the rest is up to the mods.

I don't know how the evil fee related page looks like, maybe it worth taking a look onto it, maybe it needs some information added to avoid this kind of confusion (which, as I wrote there too, may or may not be on purpose).

We all already knew the answer. I just wanted to get it in writing and maybe get the rules updated. 2 staff members are for sure aware and maybe will be able to at a minimum update the rules.

[Findingnemo]

If I knew that 16 yrs old kid got scam by fake donation by  me it would bother me at me at night.

Really touched my heart.

Well, you're not banned and will not be banned even if you found guilty of scamming anyone cause forum doesn't moderate the scams which is mentioned in the rules as well.

Paying evil fee doesn't mean your ban is revoked, its nothing but to remove the evil points but if you're evading ban this account will be banned too, see you soon fella with new acc.

[Maestro75]

When an account is banned, it's a ban for the person. So, paying fees doesn't change the fact. One can't make more account once they are banned. Note- I'm not a moderator here 

But why is it that once a person is banned here he can not start afresh, except he hides to do it? And if he is caught it becomes another problem and ban. Why? I think the forum is very harsh on this. Let us take for instance that a reputable legendary and popular member who has been contributing to this forum gets permanently banned for an offence, that means he can not get a change to start afresh? That is too harsh. Even God gives us a second chance why not humans to humans? The forum will be loosing creative members this way.

[mprep]

Proxy / IP bans and account bans are completely separate in terms of policy. If you were automatically proxy / IP banned, all that means is that Bitcointalk's software flagged your IP as suspicious. It's a measure to reduce automated spam and make the account creation process for repeat offenders more difficult. It is not intended to definitively ban you from participating on Bitcointalk. However, if your account was permanently banned, you as a person are no longer welcome on Bitcointalk no matter the IP address or computer you used to make your new account. You are free to appeal the ban but that's all you're allowed to do while the ban is still active.

I don't see a reason to add any additional clarification to the unnoficial list as rule 25 is as clear as day as to what is ban evasion and that it's not allowed.

P.S. The user has now been banned for ban evasion.

[dkbit98]

This is not the first time some member is doing ban evasion and he does not get banned by moderators.
I remember few years ago I posted clear proof and connection between accounts (address and social media), that guy created many accounts but most of them never got banned.
As for IP bans, they are far from perfect, because I know some examples of people who tried to register in forum for the first time and they received evil fee message.

Being honest Im  bigger contribution to the forum than the Yahoo guy.

Yeah sure, I think you deserve a medal for your contribution in stupidity, and you write forum posts like a real cave man.

P.S. The user has now been banned for ban evasion.

Just remember his special style of writing, I am sure we are going to see him again soon.

[Beparanf]

Proxy / IP bans and account bans are completely separate in terms of policy. If you were automatically proxy / IP banned, all that means is that Bitcointalk's software flagged your IP as suspicious. It's a measure to reduce automated spam and make the account creation process for repeat offenders more difficult. It is not intended to definitively ban you from participating on Bitcointalk. However, if your account was permanently banned, you as a person are no longer welcome on Bitcointalk no matter the IP address or computer you used to make your new account. You are free to appeal the ban but that's all you're allowed to do while the ban is still active.

I don't see a reason to add any additional clarification to the unnoficial list as rule 25 is as clear as day as to what is ban evasion and that it's not allowed.

P.S. The user has now been banned for ban evasion.

A bit off topic here but I have some clarification about the proxy ban.

I want some clarification about this evil fee. I have 3 online friends that I invited to join here in the forum. Surprising all of them asked to pay for the fees to removed the banned on their newly created account. They are first time to register account here, is the evil fee automatically charge to new register user here? I didn’t try to register an account for myself but is there a way for newbie to lift this ban without paying if they are a legit new user in the forum?

[tranthidung]

I want some clarification about this evil fee. I have 3 online friends that I invited to join here in the forum. Surprising all of them asked to pay for the fees to removed the banned on their newly created account. They are first time to register account here, is the evil fee automatically charge to new register user here? I didn’t try to register an account for myself but is there a way for newbie to lift this ban without paying if they are a legit new user in the forum?

Depends on IP addresses they used to create their accounts. If they use Internet from public Wifi at coffee store, restaurants, public locations or Tor with many people, chance to get evil IP is clear.

Your friends can request for Remove Proxyban (evil fees) - email to get whitelisted for free. Perhaps they are no longer need it now because you said they paid evil fee already.