Do You Feel Less Safe?

[Jason Brendon]

Hi guys,

Since day 1, I was told that 128 bits entropy is strong enough and brute-forcing it takes centuries.
I get it. But i still feel insecure inside of me...
(and i know adding a passphrase or using 256bits will even double down the security, totally get it)

I'm still not sure if someday i wake up, all my funds could have all gone..

[1714132700]

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[1714132700]

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[1714132700]

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[Don Pedro Dinero]

I'm still not sure if someday i wake up, all my funds could have all gone..

It seems to me that you are naturally insecure. In my case I don't feel insecure with what I have in bitcoin because from what I understand the probability of it being stolen from my HW is so small that it's practically impossible, and I haven't sold my house to buy bitcoin and keep it in the HW either. I mean, if my bitcoin were stolen I would be fucked but I would not starve to death. I don't know if in your case you sold everything to put it in bitcoin and that's why you are so worried.

[jackg]

I kinda used to feel that way but now I think we need a theory of a way to break hashing before HD wallets are even potentially insecure.

The signature algorithms may be broken by a powerful quantum computer, we have a theory for that (but not the physics) we now need a theory for how hashing can be broken before I'm going to start worrying (but then we still have the physics/quantum problem above).

[Plaguedeath]

In this life anything has a risk, even you're not doing anything in your life, you still have a risk. We could sick, crash during driving, get killed by criminal etc, we can only minimizing the risk all of them can happen to us, but it still has a chance it could happen in the future.

Even you hold your money in banks, there's a chance the banks will bankrupt.

Investing in gold and stock has a chance your account could be hacked or the securities is scam.

While Bitcoin, every contributors trying to improve the security and make sure it can't be hacked easily due to insane new technology invention.

[Jason Brendon]

I'm still not sure if someday i wake up, all my funds could have all gone..

It seems to me that you are naturally insecure. In my case I don't feel insecure with what I have in bitcoin because from what I understand the probability of it being stolen from my HW is so small that it's practically impossible, and I haven't sold my house to buy bitcoin and keep it in the HW either. I mean, if my bitcoin were stolen I would be fucked but I would not starve to death. I don't know if in your case you sold everything to put it in bitcoin and that's why you are so worried.

i agree but partially. Feeling insecure or not has nothing to do with the amount in my opinion.
although chooseing 12 words from a 2048 wordlist is secure mathematically. but mentally, i feel like someone else can just simple choose the same 12 words. (don't argue about the last word being checksum, i am just saying)

You get my point, mate?

[Supianto]

I don't feel insecure at all. I have a BIP-39 password with my seed phrase, you can hack it without any knowledge. And I don't hear about cases when people's seed phrases were stolen like it was nothing.

[Kakmakr]

Well, imagine how every other person in this world will feel, if that happens.. because all the security in the Fiat financial world are built around 128 bits entropy... for example : Banks / Secure websites etc.

I know this was an issue since the early days of Bitcoin, but it has been debated and pulled apart from all angles. Most people seem to think a stronger entropy will be implemented and your tokens will once again be safe. (with it's own issues) 

[AicecreaME]

Don't store all the eggs in just one basket, and as long as you're using a hardwallet or cold wallet, rest assure it is safe as long as you keep your private keys safe as well. Don't also brag in social medias or from your friends that you're storing Bitcoins to avoid thieves, trust no one but yourself, keep your Bitcoin to yourself and sell it when the time comes when you're completely satisfied of the price.

[Justtoons]

Having that feeling is natural, I too sometimes think about waking up one day checking my wallet and all my assets are gone. On the other hand, how safe you keep your keys can also determine if your coins gets stolen or not.

The people you think are the most trusted can be the ones to steal from you.so when It comes to your wallet or anything related to your coins, you should keep them personal. Even your wife can be a treat, I don't trust anyone when it comes to funds lol.

Don't store all the eggs in just one basket, and as long as you're using a hardwallet or cold wallet, rest assure it is safe as long as you keep your private keys safe as well. Don't also brag in social medias or from your friends that you're storing Bitcoins to avoid thieves, trust no one but yourself, keep your Bitcoin to yourself and sell it when the time comes when you're completely satisfied of the price.

And yes you shouldn't keep all your assets in one wallet, try sharing them in different secured location. This is very important so even when one of your wallet gets hacked or stolen, you would be rest assured that you still have something to hope on. But by Gods grace, non of our funds will be stolen.

[mk4]

If brute-forcing private keys in general was already viable, then we're going to have bigger problems than our bitcoin/crypto holdings.

[pooya87]

i agree but partially. Feeling insecure or not has nothing to do with the amount in my opinion.
although chooseing 12 words from a 2048 wordlist is secure mathematically. but mentally, i feel like someone else can just simple choose the same 12 words. (don't argue about the last word being checksum, i am just saying)

You don't choose 12 words from a list, you generate 128 bits of entropy using a strong random number generator then convert those bits to words like an encoding algorithm. In other words don't let the number "12" mislead you into thinking it is weak, it is actually a different representation of a strong enough entropy.

[Darker45]

I can only trust the experts saying the system is secure. That's something which is totally beyond my control. If my funds are stolen because brute-forcing was actually easier than what I've read, I wouldn't be regretting that much. On the other hand, if one day I wake up and all my funds are gone because my hot wallet was hacked or I fell victim to phishing or somebody gained access to my seed phrase, that's something I'd regret so much. And it's because I could have done something to avoid it or prevented it altogether.

[marlo1001]

It's still pretty safe, you will for sure know than computers will be powerful enough for a 128bit encritpion

[Ayers]

In this life anything has a risk, even you're not doing anything in your life, you still have a risk. We could sick, crash during driving, get killed by criminal etc, we can only minimizing the risk all of them can happen to us, but it still has a chance it could happen in the future.

Even you hold your money in banks, there's a chance the banks will bankrupt.

Investing in gold and stock has a chance your account could be hacked or the securities is scam.

While Bitcoin, every contributors trying to improve the security and make sure it can't be hacked easily due to insane new technology invention.

Exactly, everything is risky, and no one knows what will happen in the future. Our job is to try our best, using all measures that we think are safest for us. Everything is relative, nothing is absolute, so don't trust anyone or any technology too much. Investing is a very risky affair, so we need to be mentally prepared at all times for the possibility of the risk occurring. Asset diversification is also a good thing to do whether you are investing in bitcoin or gold, real estate, and risk is all around us.

[taufik123]

do you feel secure in your banks 8 digit password
alphabet +10numbers
=2821109907456 combinations to brute

lowercase alphabet+uppercase alphabet+ 28 keyboard symbols + numbers
=1677721600000000 combinations to brute


bitcoin 128bit key
=340282366920938000000000000000000000000 combinations to brute
even if say 10 billion people all tried to bruteforce a 128bit key
=34028236692093800000000000000 combinations to brute per person
which if asking everyone to do 1million brute s second
=34028236692093800000000 seconds
=1079028307080600 years


however 10 billion people all trying to brute a 8 digit password of lower+upper+symb+num
=167772 combinations per person

do you now see why 128bit is still better than what banks usually ask for when making a password to have a bank account

In accordance with the facts. Bank passwords are only allowed 8 characters no more and no less, and of course, most use a combination of birth date or first child's name, or some other combination of numbers and letters.

But some people don't worry about that, but with bitcoin private keys that use 128-bit keys, they still hesitate and feel less secure.
Bitcoin keys use RSA and ECDSA technology which is the most secure key chains today because if you want to brute-force it takes tens or even hundreds of years for ordinary computers, but for Quantum Computers it only takes years. and Quantum computers are also not cheap and not sold commercially.

Then, why are some people still intimidated by 128-bit keys and want more? They may be too paranoid that nothing is safe.
No system is safe, but the main security is the users themselves.
It is the user's job how each password is secured properly and not exposed by others.

One of them is by securing the device used. If the user is careless, then it is not the system that is less secure but the user himself does not maximize it.

[maydna]

This is about how you can hide what you have from others and don't tell them. If you can take care of it from other people, I don't think you need to feel insecure because at least you know that your 12 words or your wallet are safe with you. As long as you can do it, I think you will stay with your wallet safe and use it whenever you want. Eliminate that insecurity and follow the basic instructions to secure your wallet from all the bad things that can happen. And if you have done it, try to calm yourself and don't tell others anything about your wallet to others.

[pooya87]

Bank passwords are only allowed 8 characters no more and no less,

It depends on the bank and the way you are accessing your account. The passphrases can be simpler or more complicated (short or long).

Bitcoin keys use RSA and ECDSA technology

Bitcoin does not use RSA anywhere in its protocol.

but for Quantum Computers it only takes years.

Wrong. It still takes a quantum computer much longer than that to be able to solve ECDLP.

[ektotanes]

It's normal to worry about the safety of your funds. I feel pretty safe, I'm sure my cryptos are in a safe place.

I think I was more worried about security when I kept my money in the bank. After all, the password there is much weaker.

[Kelvinid]

That insecurities make you feel that holding Bitcoin is no longer safe no matter what you do because you are already been infected with such undesirable emotions and it was hard to remove them. Just take a look at the number of Bitcoin holders and investors, never think that they feel the same just like you but they are confident that 12 words are enough to give them security. In fact, it is not just how we measure fund security as it also includes on how you keep them safe.

[pawanjain]

I'm still not sure if someday i wake up, all my funds could have all gone..

It seems to me that you are naturally insecure. In my case I don't feel insecure with what I have in bitcoin because from what I understand the probability of it being stolen from my HW is so small that it's practically impossible, and I haven't sold my house to buy bitcoin and keep it in the HW either. I mean, if my bitcoin were stolen I would be fucked but I would not starve to death. I don't know if in your case you sold everything to put it in bitcoin and that's why you are so worried.

That is a very good point which everyone investing in bitcoin should keep in mind.
The probability of getting the funds stolen is next to impossible but it sure is not impossible.
This is why we should never go all in on one investment and always diversify our investments.
Even I have diversified my investment in such a way that if my investment in bitcoin is gone then it would be a huge disappointment for me but I won't have lost everything.
There will still be other investments I can utilise and other income I can live off with.