Referral bonuses are waste of time

[Cryptomultiplier]

I might be wrong but those shady casinos pay those influencers directly to get some kind of promotion, and they also offer them earning in the form of referrals, and that's why those influencers post the links of those scam sites because they are getting paid both ways, and they don't mind if the site turns out to be a scam because they already have plans to brainwash their followers when these casinos turn out to be scams.

You are not wrong at all. If you are looking for a legit casino then forget about what all those influencers promote. They are being paid to do do and they probably don't mind promoting a scam. Look for legit review website which will never ask you to sign under they affiliate link. If they want to promote their affiliate link they will tel you: this is an affiliate link.. This is a direct link.. and it's up to you to choose whether to support them or not.

Yes, I have noticed the thing that many of influencers are promoting the scam sites only because the shady casinos offer them huge sums of money for the promotion, and they're so cheap that they can do anything for money. You're right the legit review sites never ask anyone to sign under their affiliate links because they want to run their business on the basis of trust, and even if they want others to follow the link then they will try to explain everything in detail. The good influencers will always warn you with that message that you should sign up using the link with your own risk and they also explain that they'll get some profits if someone registers using their affiliate link.

If you're referring people to the top crypto gambling sites, you will have 0 issues getting your referral payouts. I have referrals in a couple of sites and I get my payouts instantly

You're right that top crypto gambling sites will pay you the referral payouts whiteout any issue, but the shady ones also do that because they mainly get more money from the pockets of the users that they have trapped. The trapped users are the ones who register through the referral link and they pay the referral commissions on time because such members can trap more users for them without even knowing the fact themselves.

The shady ones are more in number as compared to the legal real ones. I am yet to see any good referral bonus payout that doesn't involve one more step for completion.
It is admittedly quite difficult already getting my friends or family to click on a referral link, because of the scare of hackers or scammers using them phishing. Worst for me is to even wait patiently till the share limit has been reached before claiming or cashing out. I don't even bother, because as rightly said, it's just a waste of time for me.

It is like a breach of privacy for some, because if such link is shared to the contact list, it's like telling everyone this is what am doing at the moment and the comments or response before the link is even clicked on is one that an encyclopedia would be needed for.

[1714748006]

1714748006

[Sandra_hakeem]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

[danadc]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site..

It is very true , in certain places I leave some , I have tried to use a bonus to see if I play more and win, but so far nothing has come of luck, I think it is also a need to do things better , but why do they say that Could it be a waste of time when it comes to bonuses? I'm a player, and it's not that I'm very expert, but I can make some good plays, the current bonuses are highly conditioned and you can't get anything as easy as it Used to be, now there are many things to be Able to access and do something, that's why Sometimes I prefer to let the bonuses pass and play with money without taking them , sometimes it's Better that way.

[ethereumhunter]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site..

It is very true , in certain places I leave some , I have tried to use a bonus to see if I play more and win, but so far nothing has come of luck, I think it is also a need to do things better , but why do they say that Could it be a waste of time when it comes to bonuses? I'm a player, and it's not that I'm very expert, but I can make some good plays, the current bonuses are highly conditioned and you can't get anything as easy as it Used to be, now there are many things to be Able to access and do something, that's why Sometimes I prefer to let the bonuses pass and play with money without taking them , sometimes it's Better that way.

Referral bonuses are very difficult for most people because many processes must be passed by those who still want to try to get them. They have to know where to share the reference link to get people who want to join under it. But most people will give up after knowing they haven't been able to get one person as a reference even though they have tried various ways suggested by people who have succeeded in getting it.

Yes, they think it's a waste of time because they keep trying one method after another that they haven't mastered until they find one that works for them. And the time that has been used to find this method will probably be long and because of that, many of them fail to get it. Apart from that, they also have to wait for the time for the bonus to be disbursed so they can withdraw the referral bonus money.

[Mauser]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5437603.0 seeking for Casinos with paid referral bonuses and I tool out time to read most of the responses there and they all seem impossible to claim referral bonuses.
I wish to know if anyone has successfully claimed referral bonuses and how easy was the process and what Casino did you claim those bonuses

Referral bonuses are not really intended to be a long term income stream, they're mostly targeting friend referrals and they are not expecting many people to draw in people this way - because generally you'll not be introducing non-gambler friends into a casino for you to benefit in some way from it. They're just intended as a perk, where you might be able to personally benefit from one or two like minded people in your circle. This means that any bonuses you get from them will be rather small and usually a fixed sum, instead of earning some sort of longer term commission from anything they deposit - which affiliate programs would enable you to do, , but that is a different field entirely.

There are probably only a few people that can make a decent profit of referrals and that are streamers and social media influencer. For people that have a large follower base in the gambling and gaming industry there is a high chance they can get large number of new customers to a casino. The issue with referrals is that the people you bring to the casino need to be active gamblers to make a profit. The casino will only payout a small percentage of the profits they make from the new customers. That is why spreading referral links among people that are not interested in gambling will not lead to any profits. For the average gamblers like us the referral link is nice to bring in our friends and we can make a small profit on the side. The best approach for me is to be open to my friends about the profit I would make from them and offer to share anything I get paid out. During a big poker promotion I managed to bring in several friends that all started to gamble regularly. In the end I invited them to a dinner with drinks to payback what I made if them. As long as we don't rely on it as a source of profit, it's a nice addition to our gambling bankroll.

[slapper]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5437603.0 seeking for Casinos with paid referral bonuses and I tool out time to read most of the responses there and they all seem impossible to claim referral bonuses.
I wish to know if anyone has successfully claimed referral bonuses and how easy was the process and what Casino did you claim those bonuses

Referral bonuses are not really intended to be a long term income stream, they're mostly targeting friend referrals and they are not expecting many people to draw in people this way - because generally you'll not be introducing non-gambler friends into a casino for you to benefit in some way from it. They're just intended as a perk, where you might be able to personally benefit from one or two like minded people in your circle. This means that any bonuses you get from them will be rather small and usually a fixed sum, instead of earning some sort of longer term commission from anything they deposit - which affiliate programs would enable you to do, , but that is a different field entirely.

There are probably only a few people that can make a decent profit of referrals and that are streamers and social media influencer. For people that have a large follower base in the gambling and gaming industry there is a high chance they can get large number of new customers to a casino. The issue with referrals is that the people you bring to the casino need to be active gamblers to make a profit. The casino will only payout a small percentage of the profits they make from the new customers. That is why spreading referral links among people that are not interested in gambling will not lead to any profits. For the average gamblers like us the referral link is nice to bring in our friends and we can make a small profit on the side. The best approach for me is to be open to my friends about the profit I would make from them and offer to share anything I get paid out. During a big poker promotion I managed to bring in several friends that all started to gamble regularly. In the end I invited them to a dinner with drinks to payback what I made if them. As long as we don't rely on it as a source of profit, it's a nice addition to our gambling bankroll.

Also important in gambling is how well you use your contacts, not simply streamers or influencers. You think numbers matter? Not just that; it's strategy

You think casinos pay out a little portion of new customer revenue? The house tries to dominate every company. It's impersonal. The quality of your suggestions matters more than the number. A big spender can beat a dozen casual wagers

You want to be honest with friends, which is wonderful. However, in business, you must take risks and maximize them. References aren't your main source of money, but don't ignore them. You could win even with referrals if you play your cards close and well

[so98nn]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

Yeah, I would say it is just another side hustle for those who are good at SEO and have a big website and visitor base. They can simply put the casino's affiliate link on their website or market it by other means thus earning loads of money through their referral programs. I have been very active on a forum where the prime target is on how to perform the SEOs, and digital marketing to publish the links. There are crazy published of these casinos who earn tons of money.

I believe this is not for the ordinary gambler whose main focus is just to earn money from gambling and not the affiliate programs. They are there just as optional thing and should not be stressed. If it doesn't work for you then just skip it?

[Wiwo]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

I think @Sandra_hakeem have hard a misconceptions on what referral bonuses really is and have mistaken it to welcome bonus,  but mate referral bonuses are like affiliate rewards it comes in form of royalties from the wagering of any one that registered with your own referral code,  in form of affiliate codes.

This has been one of the most popular means of earning for gamblers for quite some time,  it worksin the form of networking and your percentages are generated based on the wagering of the one that registered under your referral code and part of your network.

[Bushdark]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

There are people till now that are still eating from referral bonus especially when they have a strong community that keep using there link to get registered on different gambling platforms. Some people may see this as a weak way to monetize opportunity to earn more from a gambling casino at the same time using the casino to make bets. It is very important for us to take a look at how gambling influencers are making money from this kind of referring business but its mostly for those that have the strength to create high traffic using there link to make people to register.

[carlfebz2]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

There are people till now that are still eating from referral bonus especially when they have a strong community that keep using there link to get registered on different gambling platforms. Some people may see this as a weak way to monetize opportunity to earn more from a gambling casino at the same time using the casino to make bets. It is very important for us to take a look at how gambling influencers are making money from this kind of referring business but its mostly for those that have the strength to create high traffic using there link to make people to register.

If you are already reached out into a point that you do have that huge network or having that lots of connections or followers then you would really be able to make that kind of advantage but if not then ref earnings

would really be that hard. The main thing that you should be minding is on how you do make yourself having that tons of networks or followers? Then this is the initial problem or target that you should reached out.
If not then you would definitely be ending up on having that hard time on utilizing referral earnings whether came from gambling site bonuses or earnings or came from other ref earnings which it isnt really just
that limited to this. One of the most advantage that you do have once you are an influencer is that you could really be able to hook up tons of invites and get those kind of bonuses but the main question is
on how you do build up your network first? lol

[ultrloa]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

There are people till now that are still eating from referral bonus especially when they have a strong community that keep using there link to get registered on different gambling platforms. Some people may see this as a weak way to monetize opportunity to earn more from a gambling casino at the same time using the casino to make bets. It is very important for us to take a look at how gambling influencers are making money from this kind of referring business but its mostly for those that have the strength to create high traffic using there link to make people to register.

If you are already reached out into a point that you do have that huge network or having that lots of connections or followers then you would really be able to make that kind of advantage but if not then ref earnings

would really be that hard. The main thing that you should be minding is on how you do make yourself having that tons of networks or followers? Then this is the initial problem or target that you should reached out.
If not then you would definitely be ending up on having that hard time on utilizing referral earnings whether came from gambling site bonuses or earnings or came from other ref earnings which it isnt really just
that limited to this. One of the most advantage that you do have once you are an influencer is that you could really be able to hook up tons of invites and get those kind of bonuses but the main question is
on how you do build up your network first? lol

That would be the great advantage for certain individual to earn via referral since they can use their network or influence to convince people to sign up under their link and the more people they can get the more money will come to their pocket that's why referral still good even though other or few people say its not. For people doesn't have huge network they can still earn good cash with this but they need to exert big effort to share their referral links on many social media groups.

[michellee]

That would be the great advantage for certain individual to earn via referral since they can use their network or influence to convince people to sign up under their link and the more people they can get the more money will come to their pocket that's why referral still good even though other or few people say its not. For people doesn't have huge network they can still earn good cash with this but they need to exert big effort to share their referral links on many social media groups.

Those who already have a network can easily get people to join them, especially if they can prove that what they provide is really useful for the people who join. Other people will immediately want to join and follow the network to get the benefits.

But usually, people who want to try using referral links only have a little experience so they have difficulty getting people to join them. That's what makes many people fail before they can get one person who wants to join. That makes them say that looking for bonuses from referral links is futile.

They should find other ways to make money from the internet. Not many can immediately succeed in their business but must experience many things first. And they need to find ways that they can use successfully and that takes time.

[AicecreaME]

Those who already have a network can easily get people to join them, especially if they can prove that what they provide is really useful for the people who join. Other people will immediately want to join and follow the network to get the benefits.

But usually, people who want to try using referral links only have a little experience so they have difficulty getting people to join them. That's what makes many people fail before they can get one person who wants to join. That makes them say that looking for bonuses from referral links is futile.

They should find other ways to make money from the internet. Not many can immediately succeed in their business but must experience many things first. And they need to find ways that they can use successfully and that takes time.

Indeed.

Those people who already have a wide reach prior joing the affiliate programs and referral programs will definitely benefit the most because they have a broad audience to begin with whom they can reach out to influence and let them sign up for their code or using their links. It will be an easy task for those who have a huge following on their social media accounts that are also interactive with them. Based on my observation, if you already built the reputation and you've proven your character to the masses, the more they will trust you and eventually give in to try what you offer since they see you as a trusted source if ever there's one to be an influencer.

Although of course, it's still better to have other source of income apart from affiliate and referral bonuses because these are not constant. You have to have a stable income to survive these days.

[Fatunad]

Those who already have a network can easily get people to join them, especially if they can prove that what they provide is really useful for the people who join. Other people will immediately want to join and follow the network to get the benefits.

But usually, people who want to try using referral links only have a little experience so they have difficulty getting people to join them. That's what makes many people fail before they can get one person who wants to join. That makes them say that looking for bonuses from referral links is futile.

They should find other ways to make money from the internet. Not many can immediately succeed in their business but must experience many things first. And they need to find ways that they can use successfully and that takes time.

Indeed.

Those people who already have a wide reach prior joing the affiliate programs and referral programs will definitely benefit the most because they have a broad audience to begin with whom they can reach out to influence and let them sign up for their code or using their links. It will be an easy task for those who have a huge following on their social media accounts that are also interactive with them. Based on my observation, if you already built the reputation and you've proven your character to the masses, the more they will trust you and eventually give in to try what you offer since they see you as a trusted source if ever there's one to be an influencer.

Although of course, it's still better to have other source of income apart from affiliate and referral bonuses because these are not constant. You have to have a stable income to survive these days.

Being an influencer is never been easy or not something that a network that you could easily built with since you are that trying to built out trust with the community and we know that not all would really be successful on this path. It is true that majority of them did start on those challenges on getting their first follower and the rest would be entirely be depending on how you would be able to accumulate and making those numbers bigger.
On the time that you had established yourself on getting those good number of followers then it would really be just that normal that you would really be done day using up these connections for them to be able to take
some advantage when it comes to referral hunting. Just like the rest been saying that since they do have that huge followers then they could really be able to make them convinced on signing up under his link.
Despite whether those people would be active or not but still he would really be able to get bonuses unless it would be entirely be depending on the those terms and conditions basing up on inviting someone.
Waste of time is something that pertains on doing nothing rather than on thriving with referral hunting but its true that not all would really be good at it.

[Bitcoin_people]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site.. if that's the focus, then the gambler has zero experience and doesn't even know what they want.
IMHO, the qualities of chosing a casino should be way better than whatever bonuses - I've never heard stories where peeps are really able to benefit from bonuses alot... A proper comparison is the freespins.

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

There are people till now that are still eating from referral bonus especially when they have a strong community that keep using there link to get registered on different gambling platforms. Some people may see this as a weak way to monetize opportunity to earn more from a gambling casino at the same time using the casino to make bets. It is very important for us to take a look at how gambling influencers are making money from this kind of referring business but its mostly for those that have the strength to create high traffic using there link to make people to register.

It is true that there are some people who register on the gambling platform and before that they have a big channel to get the referral bonus and give the link there and many people register there and they get the bonus. and the people who get such high amount of bonus don't keep playing but they can earn money from this referral much more, so they don't need to bet. And those who have such a large community are able to earn money by getting referral bonuses from gambling platforms. And those gamblers can earn a lot of money from the casino by referrals but those people are able to earn bonuses mainly from the gambling platform because of the strong community.

[Xxmodded]

Its not waste of your time when getting referral make huge deposit fund and you can earn much commission, I have friend list who earn much commission due active promoting with his referral link and actually he got huge amount deposit with his referral user. Not matter with how many referral having if small fund deposit but difference with my friend and what kinds of way using because most of his referral dominance by huge amount deposit user. Its seems excited when getting referral and want to make bigger amount deposit, we can earn passive income in daily day actually when our referral user active and consistent betting.

[Rabata]

In my opinion, I think referral bonuses are typically waste of one's time because of its processes that seems so impossible to claim and recently I came across a thread

Referral bonuses aren't even a prior thought, neither is it an aftertime reconsiderations about whether or not a person registers on a site..

It is very true , in certain places I leave some , I have tried to use a bonus to see if I play more and win, but so far nothing has come of luck, I think it is also a need to do things better , but why do they say that Could it be a waste of time when it comes to bonuses? I'm a player, and it's not that I'm very expert, but I can make some good plays, the current bonuses are highly conditioned and you can't get anything as easy as it Used to be, now there are many things to be Able to access and do something, that's why Sometimes I prefer to let the bonuses pass and play with money without taking them , sometimes it's Better that way.

Bonus is definitely a tempting offer to every gambler. However some bonuses are offered which are not winnable by everyone. If a requirement is given where everyone fails then those bonuses are not meant to be given to gamblers. Again, many people claim to get bonuses without understanding the kind of requirements or tasks they are told to do to get the bonus, which is unnecessary. But it is quite true that getting bonus is not a very easy task nowadays. It is comparatively very difficult to find now. Because of which some gamblers consider it is a waste of time.

[ethereumhunter]

Its not waste of your time when getting referral make huge deposit fund and you can earn much commission, I have friend list who earn much commission due active promoting with his referral link and actually he got huge amount deposit with his referral user. Not matter with how many referral having if small fund deposit but difference with my friend and what kinds of way using because most of his referral dominance by huge amount deposit user. Its seems excited when getting referral and want to make bigger amount deposit, we can earn passive income in daily day actually when our referral user active and consistent betting.

You will generate a commission bonus if you can get referrals. Moreover you can get lots of referrals, of course, the bonus commissions you will receive will also be a lot. You can ask your friend how long it will take for him to get a lot of commissions and it seems that it won't be easy because it's true that he has to actively promote with his referral link so he can get lots of people joining through his referral link.

And if someone can get people to join with his referral link, he will be even more excited to keep trying it. He will also use many ways to get more people to join. But it all takes time and most people can't afford to go through the process because they don't know how to find the right way to get those referrals.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Its not waste of your time when getting referral make huge deposit fund and you can earn much commission, I have friend list who earn much commission due active promoting with his referral link and actually he got huge amount deposit with his referral user. Not matter with how many referral having if small fund deposit but difference with my friend and what kinds of way using because most of his referral dominance by huge amount deposit user. Its seems excited when getting referral and want to make bigger amount deposit, we can earn passive income in daily day actually when our referral user active and consistent betting.

Well, the case of your Friend , it is a very common case , it is a case that can be Given as a good example, because in fact things are like that, as long as there are good references, there are many passive income deposits while you are sleeping or simply If you are not doing any type of activity, then in this order of Ideas there is something that we must be very clear about, if there is a way to earn money easily such as referral, this should not be considered losing money, that is, nothing The fact that it is a fact of earning money is a bad idea or a waste of time, only that perhaps we have not tried it, or simply, we have tried it and we have not had any luck, for these reasons it is that we as players cannot see it as a waste, at some point a player who likes to play big can sign up and can generate good passive income, we cannot discard those things and leave them as if they were waste, because it is like Saying no to money.

And things when it comes to how to sell them , how to get People to get Into our referral links , well that Already has a lot to do with the strategy that is going to be used, as I said, some are very lucky and get referrals in a very sincere way, or maybe they have great friends who are people who have a lot of money and since the casino game is so Exciting , and if the person doesn't mind depositing large amounts, they keep playing, then this obviously becomes great profits, so these programs by the casinos are made to help players to obtain profits if they promote them that way, there are many more, but for them this is what they offer, because there are benefits, In addition , it is not so much work that can be done if you do not get it, I consider that it is a good option, so there are many People who Obtain a good Income from a casino and the best in a Passive Way.

[panjul07]

Its not waste of your time when getting referral make huge deposit fund and you can earn much commission, I have friend list who earn much commission due active promoting with his referral link and actually he got huge amount deposit with his referral user. Not matter with how many referral having if small fund deposit but difference with my friend and what kinds of way using because most of his referral dominance by huge amount deposit user. Its seems excited when getting referral and want to make bigger amount deposit, we can earn passive income in daily day actually when our referral user active and consistent betting.

You will generate a commission bonus if you can get referrals. Moreover you can get lots of referrals, of course, the bonus commissions you will receive will also be a lot. You can ask your friend how long it will take for him to get a lot of commissions and it seems that it won't be easy because it's true that he has to actively promote with his referral link so he can get lots of people joining through his referral link.

And if someone can get people to join with his referral link, he will be even more excited to keep trying it. He will also use many ways to get more people to join. But it all takes time and most people can't afford to go through the process because they don't know how to find the right way to get those referrals.

Unfortunately referral commission is not based on how many referrals we have, but how much is wagered by our referrlas.
I would prefer to have 1-3 referrals but all are actively wagering big amount (whales) than to have hundreds referrals but less active in wagering.
But of course having more referrals give more chances for us to get more commission but still it is not a guarantee to make some money even though many people joined through our link.
I have an experience in fiat casino, I have more than 50 referrals but most of them play small amount only so the commission I get is also small.