⚽ Conmebol Libertadores 2023 - Prediction and Discussion Thread

[alegotardo]

Did you hear about the return of the "plate" that Conmebol will deliver to the Libertadores champion?
Last Wednesday, the president of Conmebol made the announcement that they will return to handing out the champion's plate along with the trophy to this year's Copa Libertadores champion.

If I remember correctly, they had already given a spoiler about this last month, when the Conmebol president had asked his followers on social media about the possibility of returning with this award.

An additional "incentive" for the teams that are still in contention in this final stretch of the competition.

[rdluffy]

Yeah no doubt about that, but Boca its really bad, the only thing they have its that mistic of being a HUGE of America and always making good games in Libertadores, the card their have is Cavani, until now Cavani doesnt show anything, lets see if he start to show his magic in that game.

And so far I don't think Cavani has managed to show the same form he did a few years ago (of course)
But he can still be that player who comes on in a difficult match and manages to score the only goal of the game
He's got the talent, it's just a question of whether his age will affect his performance against a Palmeiras team that's a lot younger at the moment. Boca needs to do a good match in La Bombonera

Did you hear about the return of the "plate" that Conmebol will deliver to the Libertadores champion?
Last Wednesday, the president of Conmebol made the announcement that they will return to handing out the champion's plate along with the trophy to this year's Copa Libertadores champion.

If I remember correctly, they had already given a spoiler about this last month, when the Conmebol president had asked his followers on social media about the possibility of returning with this award.

An additional "incentive" for the teams that are still in contention in this final stretch of the competition.

I haven't seen anything about this alegotardo
Do you have a link to the news you saw?

[LUCKMCFLY]

I dont know HOW and WHY they see Boca as favorite when Boca cant win in the home game against a much more weaker team like Nacional in the round of 16 and also cant win against Racing in quarterfinals, so now against a brazilian team who is one of the best teams in Libertadores from last year, its a non sense.

I think these odds are due to the fact that they're playing at home in La Bombonera. All the indications are that Palmeiras will win and qualify, but I don't underestimate Argentinian soccer in any way, one of the countries that has shown me the most resilience is Argentina
The Palmeiras team has to go into the game thinking that it's going to be a tough game, they can't underestimate Boca

Yeah no doubt about that, but Boca its really bad, the only thing they have its that mistic of being a HUGE of America and always making good games in Libertadores, the card their have is Cavani, until now Cavani doesnt show anything, lets see if he start to show his magic in that game.

Well, I would say that Bonmca is not bad, every team only goes through a bad streak, be it in the Bundesliga, La LIGA, PL, in everything, but it is normal, Cavanni is not only the Boca player, he is all the 10 players they have, plus Cavanni is very good, maybe in these moments he can activate himself as he is, it's a stadium, new people, it's a game that can give a lot, especially when it comes to the fans he does the least for them , but we must also understand something, every player is under the direction of a technical director, and we don't know how much he is being pressured to do things that he is not used to, South American soccer is not like that of Europe, here in South America sometimes things seem to be more difficult, otherwise you have to take a look at everything that is seen in the Conmebol qualifiers, because they are quite difficult, in part Uruguay, which is Cavanni's team, could not beat Ecuador, so this means that Here things are more difficult, then when it comes to local leagues they are difficult, this is what you have to realize, also as I said, leagues like Argentina where a lot is demanded, all that pressure, that stress is taken by the players and it may also affect them.

In addition, when we are in Libertadores we know very well what the performance of the Brazilian teams is like, in their local league they are very competitive and the teams that are in these times are very, very good, we must not overlook them, they always show great football and these things are what we must see, in particular we know that things can happen as it is, it may be that the dominance is of the Brazilian or Argentine teams, but we must understand the difficult level that this represents here, of course From a stand we see something, but it's just the tip of the iceberg, we don't know under what direction or strategy the players are or under what particular positions they must play to comply with the scheme, all that is just complicating all this.

[rdluffy]

Well, I would say that Bonmca is not bad, every team only goes through a bad streak, be it in the Bundesliga, La LIGA, PL, in everything, but it is normal...

Boca managed to qualify for the semi-finals with a lot of effort, that much cannot be denied. In my opinion, it was much more effort and determination than anything else
In the round of 16 and quarter-finals, Boca managed to qualify on penalties after drawn matches, and of the 4 matches, they only scored 2 goals, which was in only one match
There's a lot of room for improvement, and as I said in the post above, Cavani could score a lifesaving goal at any moment, and Argentinian teams know how to hold on to a result, especially against Brazilians
But I still see that Palmeiras are at a different level of soccer, more prepared to play in more situations, with more resources and with players at their peak of performance, like Rony, Raphael Veiga, Gabriel Menino and Weverton the goalkeeper

[LUCKMCFLY]

Well, I would say that Bonmca is not bad, every team only goes through a bad streak, be it in the Bundesliga, La LIGA, PL, in everything, but it is normal...

Boca managed to qualify for the semi-finals with a lot of effort, that much cannot be denied. In my opinion, it was much more effort and determination than anything else
In the round of 16 and quarter-finals, Boca managed to qualify on penalties after drawn matches, and of the 4 matches, they only scored 2 goals, which was in only one match
There's a lot of room for improvement, and as I said in the post above, Cavani could score a lifesaving goal at any moment, and Argentinian teams know how to hold on to a result, especially against Brazilians
But I still see that Palmeiras are at a different level of soccer, more prepared to play in more situations, with more resources and with players at their peak of performance, like Rony, Raphael Veiga, Gabriel Menino and Weverton the goalkeeper

Palmeiras is another level, I don't see another team better prepared, I think that only a Palmeiras is capable of representing Brazil in a competition or capable of presenting itself as the Brazilian team against any country in the world, so it is a great representation . For me, Boca has a very high level, these things can be very controversial, for me the Boca kids have everything to do anything, even for the Brazilians, but the Brazilians do so well at soccer, it is so natural that They play like that, the Argentines also do it well, but I think they need a good leader, someone who always directs them, a Riquelme, a player of that level who makes the midfield respectable and who steps hard on the ball, so that It is comparable to the level of the braasleros, which is really very high.


Something very curious:

Palmeiras boss Pereira winscourt order to protect her from Mancha Alviverde

September 14 – Palmeiras president Leila Pereira will benefit from a protective police order after threats were made against her by the club’s main supporters’ group, the Mancha Alviverde.

Three members of the Mancha Alviverde had made threats through fake profiles on social media late in June.

In the decision judge Fabrício Reali Zia said that “it can be seen that the main representative of the Palmeiras fans posted the act on their profiles and, according to the victim, used the protest to promote themselves on their social networks, reaching thousands of people and interactions. These interactions included content such as:  ‘You have to put the bullet in Leila’; ‘If you get me a gun, I’ll kill Leila’; ‘I’ll be in the papers for having ordered Leila’s death’; ‘You can’t use violence to charge Leila?’; ‘Leila should be beaten with iron bars’; ‘Wreaths for Leila’; ‘You have to destroy Crefisa’s headquarters’.

The trio must keep a minimum distance of 300 metres from the Palmeiras president’s home or workplace. Failure to comply could result in arrest, according to the judge.

Source: https://www.insideworldfootball.com/2023/09/14/palmeiras-boss-pereira-winscourt-order-protect-mancha-alviverde/

Well, Palmeiras , Everywhere you look , is a team that can Put up a Fight with Any team, even the countries that win UEFA, I don't Understand how these Teams don't excel with Europos fútbol in the Intercontinental Cup, I don't Know what just What happens to the teams that become Copa Libertadores de América, it's as if they Came out with fear, I don't know what's Happening , because their level is very High, but it's like when someone hides, or I don't know , because They play Badly , the Passes are not Accurate, the Teams usually do not excel as they should, the truth is Strange , seeing these teams with the others should raise the level when it is their Turn in the Intercontinental Cup , for me it is one of the most favorites I have the Season where Arturo Vidal Was when he was with Madrid and he did Absolutely Nothing, it's one of the Things that can Basically have a really hard Impact.


I'm not sure but I saw that Palmeiras passed and they beat Internacional in the other Key, I saw it on Instagram but I couldn't verify the source properly.

[rdluffy]

Palmeiras is another level, I don't see another team better prepared, I think that only a Palmeiras is capable of representing Brazil in a competition or capable of presenting itself as the Brazilian team against any country in the world...

Unfortunately, I have to admit that Palmeiras really are the best-prepared Brazilian team at the moment. It's the best option to represent Brazil.
And it's hard to say because my team Corinthians is Palmeiras' biggest opponent

Something very curious:

Palmeiras boss Pereira winscourt order to protect her from Mancha Alviverde

This is a very bad thing that happens in Brazil. And even more so in the case of Palmeiras, where the team is doing well in the championships, yet some fans complain and have bad attitudes
There are "organized supporters" in Brazil, where many fans get carried away, lose their temper and threaten players, or fight with other supporters, it's unfortunate

Well, Palmeiras , Everywhere you look , is a team that can Put up a Fight with Any team, even the countries that win UEFA, I don't Understand how these Teams don't excel with Europos fútbol in the Intercontinental Cup, I don't Know what just What happens to the teams that become Copa Libertadores de América, it's as if they Came out with fear, I don't know what's Happening...

It's the financial disadvantage, at least in my opinion
Even with top-level players in Brazil, European teams manage to sign all the best players in the world, so the best Brazilians are in Europe, and every Brazilian player's dream is to play for a European team. The level is different, yes, but there are still some teams from the American continent who manage to achieve this feat, such as my Corinthians, who have won the FIFA World Cup twice hehehe, the last time being in 2012 against Chelsea

[LUCKMCFLY]

Palmeiras is another level, I don't see another team better prepared, I think that only a Palmeiras is capable of representing Brazil in a competition or capable of presenting itself as the Brazilian team against any country in the world...

Unfortunately, I have to admit that Palmeiras really are the best-prepared Brazilian team at the moment. It's the best option to represent Brazil.
And it's hard to say because my team Corinthians is Palmeiras' biggest opponent

Something very curious:

Palmeiras boss Pereira winscourt order to protect her from Mancha Alviverde

This is a very bad thing that happens in Brazil. And even more so in the case of Palmeiras, where the team is doing well in the championships, yet some fans complain and have bad attitudes
There are "organized supporters" in Brazil, where many fans get carried away, lose their temper and threaten players, or fight with other supporters, it's unfortunate

Well, Palmeiras , Everywhere you look , is a team that can Put up a Fight with Any team, even the countries that win UEFA, I don't Understand how these Teams don't excel with Europos fútbol in the Intercontinental Cup, I don't Know what just What happens to the teams that become Copa Libertadores de América, it's as if they Came out with fear, I don't know what's Happening...

It's the financial disadvantage, at least in my opinion
Even with top-level players in Brazil, European teams manage to sign all the best players in the world, so the best Brazilians are in Europe, and every Brazilian player's dream is to play for a European team. The level is different, yes, but there are still some teams from the American continent who manage to achieve this feat, such as my Corinthians, who have won the FIFA World Cup twice hehehe, the last time being in 2012 against Chelsea

Well, the thing about amateurs is something very common because it is like that, I think that in all the countries of the world they have that problem, in my country when Táchira vs Caracas plays, which is the classic of the tournament, on one occasion the people from Táchira burned the bus where The Caracas team is tranalized and these are things that should not be allowed, at the level of Brazilian football what you say is true, it is that Corinthias has surprised a lot in terms of its football, because I consider that this team is also one of the most strong in Brazil, but Palmeiras is one of the most focused on getting results, I don't know how they do it, but with Btrasil they look like playing machines, the level is very high, now as for the Libertadores championship, it is something that It gives us a lot to think about, it is normal for a Brazilian or Argentine team to arrive, it is very normal, for that reason every time Palmeiras, Corinthias, Santos play, well for me it is exciting, because these players do Incredible things, the dribbling, everything they do is a combination of Jogo Bonito.

Palmeiras' facial recognition on match tickets helps police arrest criminals

Sept 23 (Reuters) - Facial recognition technology used on match tickets by top flight soccer club Palmeiras has helped the Sao Paulo Public Security Secretariat (SSP) arrest 28 criminals in four games at the Allianz Parque stadium, the government body said on Friday.

The facial biometrics system, implemented this year by the Brazilian club through the 'Muralha Paulista' programme, aims to ensure that the person who has purchased a ticket from Palmeiras is the same as the fan entering the stadium.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/palmeiras-facial-recognition-match-tickets-helps-police-arrest-criminals-2023-09-23/?rpc=401&

I do like that technology can be used to search for criminals, things cannot go unpunished, these types of acts can result in injuring many people and even causing deaths, so technology can stop them from doing this anymore. type of acts, these things tarnish football, sometimes they can cause the same team to be sanctioned without need, then it is not possible that because of a few they do this type of things, it has happened that in teams where the fans behave badly because the most The affected is the team, there are confederations that are very Severe with this type of punishment and it is not due to a lack of the team but of teaching them, so they are very unfair causes, I think that sometimes the security entities fail a lot here, and that is something that cannot be allowed, when they are very important parties, parties that include great rivalries, because it is Something that cannot be allowed to do any type of thing that is a nest of vandalism.

[rdluffy]

Well, the thing about amateurs is something very common because it is like that, I think that in all the countries of the world they have that problem

Unfortunately, this is quite common in Brazil. Events like this happen every year.
It's not uncommon for players to suffer direct threats from fans, and this year, a few months ago, Luan, who played for Corinthians (now at Grêmio), was attacked by fans who were disgusted with his performance, here you can see the news

... it is very normal, for that reason every time Palmeiras, Corinthias, Santos play, well for me it is exciting, because these players do Incredible things, the dribbling, everything they do is a combination of Jogo Bonito.

Talking about Palmeiras and Corinthians, there are 3 great matches to watch in south american soccer

Today in Sudamericana Cup:
Corinthians vs Fortaleza

Tomorow - Libertadores:
Fluminese vs Internacional

The day after tomorrow - Libertadores
Boca Juniors vs Palmeiras

What are your bets guys?

[alegotardo]

What are your bets guys?

I'm still believing in Palmeiras' victory in the game that's happening now, I hope they qualify and face Internacional in the championship final.

Speaking of Internacional.... what game he played against Fluminense, did you see? There were high emotions in the 4 goals of the match.
The final will be in Beira Rio, at Internacional house, and obviously I am confident and betting on Colorado's victory.

This championship started without me having much confidence in my team, but that has certainly changed.

Internacional and Palmeiras, that's my guess for the championship final.

[rdluffy]

What are your bets guys?

I'm still believing in Palmeiras' victory in the game that's happening now, I hope they qualify and face Internacional in the championship final.

Speaking of Internacional.... what game he played against Fluminense, did you see? There were high emotions in the 4 goals of the match.
The final will be in Beira Rio, at Internacional house, and obviously I am confident and betting on Colorado's victory.

This championship started without me having much confidence in my team, but that has certainly changed.

Internacional and Palmeiras, that's my guess for the championship final.

The games were so difficult that all three ended in draws hehehe 

Corinthians 1 vs 1 Fortaleza
Fluminese 2 vs 2 Internacional
Boca Juniors 0 vs 0 Palmeiras

But without a doubt the Inter vs Fluminense game was the best of them all, I really enjoyed watching it, chances at every minute, teams playing well, playing to win and not defensively
I think Inter have the best chance to qualify to the final, it looks like you're going to have to buy tickets to watch the Libertadores final anyway @alegotardo 


Palmeiras also got a good result with a draw at La Bombonera. Now they willdecide at home, and it's not that complicated since Boca aren't even playing well, as they showed yesterday

As a curiosity, I was going to bet on Fluminense winning that first match, but I had problems with the internet and I simply couldn't access it for a few hours. I missed my chance, but it was the best thing that happened, since I was going to lose that bet because it ended in a draw hehe, the (lack of) Internet saved me 

[Lucasgabd]

seems like once more we have Palmeiras as our favorite for winning the championship
any guesses on who will be placed second or third?

do you think Boca Juniors has any chance at all?

curious to see how this will play out

My best guess is a final with Palmeiras x Inter
I think Palmeiras is the favorite among the 4 remaining teams to be the champion

But the first match in Argentina is more favorable to Boca, look at the probabilities:



I bet in a draw in the first match and them a victory for Palmeiras in Brazil
Inter x Fluminense I think in a victory of Fluminense in Rio de Janeiro, them a victory for Inter playing at home and probably penalties to decide the spot in the final 

Do you agree with my guess guys?

just curious here but what sports booking website is this screenshot from?

What are your bets guys?

I'm still believing in Palmeiras' victory in the game that's happening now, I hope they qualify and face Internacional in the championship final.

Speaking of Internacional.... what game he played against Fluminense, did you see? There were high emotions in the 4 goals of the match.
The final will be in Beira Rio, at Internacional house, and obviously I am confident and betting on Colorado's victory.

This championship started without me having much confidence in my team, but that has certainly changed.

Internacional and Palmeiras, that's my guess for the championship final.

The games were so difficult that all three ended in draws hehehe 

Corinthians 1 vs 1 Fortaleza
Fluminese 2 vs 2 Internacional
Boca Juniors 0 vs 0 Palmeiras

But without a doubt the Inter vs Fluminense game was the best of them all, I really enjoyed watching it, chances at every minute, teams playing well, playing to win and not defensively
I think Inter have the best chance to qualify to the final, it looks like you're going to have to buy tickets to watch the Libertadores final anyway @alegotardo 


Palmeiras also got a good result with a draw at La Bombonera. Now they willdecide at home, and it's not that complicated since Boca aren't even playing well, as they showed yesterday

As a curiosity, I was going to bet on Fluminense winning that first match, but I had problems with the internet and I simply couldn't access it for a few hours. I missed my chance, but it was the best thing that happened, since I was going to lose that bet because it ended in a draw hehe, the (lack of) Internet saved me 

interesting, not so common to see that many draws
sports books must be celebrating because situations like that (going against the odds) are usually good for them, I suppose.

[cygan]

brazil's traditional club fluminense from rio de janeiro has reached the final of the copa libertadores. the team won 2-1 away against internacional porto alegre (after a 2-2 draw in the first leg). the 2-1 victory was scored in the 87th minute by German Cano.
this is only the second time that fluminense has reached the final of the south american equivalent of the european champions league, having lost to ldu from the ecuadorian capital quito in 2008

[alegotardo]

brazil's traditional club fluminense from rio de janeiro has reached the final of the copa libertadores. the team won 2-1 away against internacional porto alegre (after a 2-2 draw in the first leg). the 2-1 victory was scored in the 87th minute by German Cano.
this is only the second time that fluminense has reached the final of the south american equivalent of the european champions league, having lost to ldu from the ecuadorian capital quito in 2008

I'm devastated by this result from Internacional!

I don't think anyone will be able to explain to me how a team that was doing so well in the championship, even defeated River Plate... how can they lose the game when it's practically over? Was it so difficult to hold on to victory playing at home?
Honestly... this is something incomprehensible to me.

But, this isn't the first time that Internacional has disappointed, so I should actually be used to it by now
He creates this illusion in the fans to betray us when we are almost reaching the cup.
It was like that in the Fifa World Cup in 2010, and in the defeat suffered against Grêmio in 2015 and more recently in 2021 against Olimpia also in the Conmebol Libertadores.

Anyway, it was good while it lasted, but now the objective is to focus on the Brazilian championship (Brasilerão).

[rdluffy]

And tomorrow is the big day.
The Libertadores will end, at the packed Maracanã, Fluminense vs Boca Juniors

Look at the odds

Boca 3.50
Draw 3.25
Fluminense 2.20





Will anyone be watching and/or betting?
I'm thinking of going all-in with my bankroll that I made during the competition. I've made a nice profit and I'm thinking of finishing with a bet on Fluminense. I'm confident that the team will win the title tomorrow

For those interested, the game will take place tomorrow at 5pm Brasilia time, or 20h UTC (8pm).

[alegotardo]

I was so discouraged with this championship after Internacional was disqualified, that I didn't even remember to come here in this thread.

However, this does not mean that I stopped following the news, I confess that the mourning has passed and I am very excited to watch the Conmebol Libertadores final.

Will anyone be watching and/or betting?
I'm thinking of going all-in with my bankroll that I made during the competition. I've made a nice profit and I'm thinking of finishing with a bet on Fluminense. I'm confident that the team will win the title tomorrow

For those interested, the game will take place tomorrow at 5pm Brasilia time, or 20h UTC (8pm).

My bet is also on Fluminense, I know... I should be mad at him, but I'm betting on the odds so I don't lose my money

Fluminense was the leader in group D, which was called by many as "the group of death", as it included River Plate, The Strongest and Sporting Cristal.
To begin with, they beat the Argentines 5-1 at Maracanã, then eliminated Argentinos Juniors in the round of 16, Olimpia in the quarter-finals and Internacional in the semi-final... with a "majestic" comeback in the imposing Beira -River.

Summary... seven wins, three draws and two defeats so far. Only a crazy person would bet against Fluminense.

[shogun47]

And tomorrow is the big day.
The Libertadores will end, at the packed Maracanã, Fluminense vs Boca Juniors

Look at the odds

Boca 3.50
Draw 3.25
Fluminense 2.20





Will anyone be watching and/or betting?
I'm thinking of going all-in with my bankroll that I made during the competition. I've made a nice profit and I'm thinking of finishing with a bet on Fluminense. I'm confident that the team will win the title tomorrow

For those interested, the game will take place tomorrow at 5pm Brasilia time, or 20h UTC (8pm).

It is a super interesting match, but I have been quite careful often times in terms of betting on quite close games in the Libertadores competition. It feels like these games can often get out of control emotionally and then it is hard to predict how it goes. This might just be a subjective feeling I have, but sometimes I think European soccer is a little easier to predict, which doesn't mean it is predictable at all though :p

Going all-in with the bankroll never sounds like a great idea at first, or is this your bankroll specifically for the Libertadores and you could take the loss? No doubt it would be exciting, but hopefully you won't regret it! I think that the Boca Juniors have what it takes to at least make it into overtime and then everything is possible for them as well. If Fluminense doesn't win in regular time, this game will become a coin flip.

[rdluffy]

I was so discouraged with this championship after Internacional was disqualified, that I didn't even remember to come here in this thread.

I'mk sorry for that my friend, but your team did a great job, it's a reason to be proud, reach the semi-finals is hard

Summary... seven wins, three draws and two defeats so far. Only a crazy person would bet against Fluminense.

And to top it all off, Fluminense are practically playing at home in the Maracanã
Even with many Argentinian fans, Flu are used to playing at the Maracanã and that counts for a lot

Going all-in with the bankroll never sounds like a great idea at first, or is this your bankroll specifically for the Libertadores and you could take the loss? No doubt it would be exciting, but hopefully you won't regret it! I think that the Boca Juniors have what it takes to at least make it into overtime and then everything is possible for them as well. If Fluminense doesn't win in regular time, this game will become a coin flip.

Don't worry hehehe, I have a bankroll for each competition 

It is a super interesting match, but I have been quite careful often times in terms of betting on quite close games in the Libertadores competition. It feels like these games can often get out of control emotionally and then it is hard to predict how it goes. This might just be a subjective feeling I have, but sometimes I think European soccer is a little easier to predict, which doesn't mean it is predictable at all though :p

You've mentioned something important: these games often get out of hand, not just emotionally, but physically too
I'm going to take this opportunity to say that this is a big difference between the teams in the Libertadores and those in the Champions League.
The situation in Rio de Janeiro is complicated.
There are an estimated 150,000 Boca Juniors fans in Rio right now. 


Source

There will probably be fights between the fans. The Boca Juniors team asked for protection, and they had to bring in their own security guards from Argentina

[shogun47]

Ok so I thought I should come back to our little conversation and ask whether you went for it? I am playing in the BSFL if you know that and I chose Boca Juniors as the winner, but didn't work out either. Did you proceed with your bet on Fluminense being the winner in regular time? I hope you didn't! But Fluminsense was a just winner I think as from what I saw they had control over the game. But as we said, these games can get out of control and there were cards en masse.

But these games from the Conmebol Libertadores are really a highlight and in terms of emotional and physical intensity definitely no worse than the European counterparts.

[darxiaomi]

Ey guys totally forgot this thread, well we reached the end of the Copa Libertadores again and Fluminense becomes the champion.

Fluminense deserves the win Boca was just a mess like they were all the cup, only passing by the penalties and not winning a single game in the H2H.

[Slow death]

I forgot about this thread, I confess that when the game ended I wanted to post in this thread, but I left home and when I came back I was doing other things on the computer and days went by and I forgot to post in this thread, but today I remembered this thread. the cup ended with an unlikely winner, at least in my opinion I saw other teams reaching the final and becoming champions, and I didn't see Fluminense getting far, that's because they have been doing poorly in the Brazilian in the sense of not being a team capable of fight to become champions. but to my surprise they managed to reach the final of this cup and became champions. and a case to say that the performance of teams in internal leagues

They should not be taken into consideration when analyzing the same team that is playing poorly in the domestic league and is going to play in cup games or international games. I don't know if this big difference is due to the different quality of the local leagues in each country. Because of this difference in performance that teams have had in local leagues and in international competitions, I have avoided placing bets on games in international competitions. In any case, congratulations to Fluminense, although 5 days have passed since they won, I still came to congratulate them on their achievement